Rossi mini ranch 44 mag questions

[crossbow2]

Local to me a fellow has a rossi 44 mag "mini ranch" lever gun for sale. It looks rather odd with a baby short stock and a pregnant looking leather covered lever. So what is the deal on this rifle ?. Is it worth as much as $450 ?. Can you obtain a regular length stock for such a thing ?.

[williamwaco]

This is not a rifle.

Technically ( Legally ) it is a pistol.

http://www.rossiusa.com/product-details.cfm?id=196&category=17

$450 looks like a good price.

http://nt-armament.biz/catalog_detail.php?product_id=8931

If you do not like it as is, you should not buy it.
You cannot increase either the barrel length or the butt stock length legally.

[MtGun44]

The lead character "Josh Randall" on the 1950s TV series "Wanted Dead or Alive"
was a bounty hunter that carried a sawed off Win 92 in .44-40. This is a recreation
of that movie gun. Looks pretty silly to me.

Bill

[skiforce75]

I can not see how those things could be accurate. I have a Rossi 92 44 mag stainless 16" barrel. It has become one of my favorite guns and is as short as that gun "can (legally)" and probably should get.

[Bzcraig]

The lead character "Josh Randall" on the 1950s TV series "Wanted Dead or Alive"
was a bounty hunter that carried a sawed off Win 92 in .44-40. This is a recreation
of that movie gun. Looks pretty silly to me.

Bill

There must be a market but not me either.........

[Gibbs44]

If you do not like it as is, you should not buy it.
You cannot increase either the barrel length or the butt stock length legally.

Couldn't you go through ATF and file the appropriate paperwork and pay the fees to get this done. At this point it'd be a short barreled rifle, and illegal without the proper approval. I'm probably getting this wrong, but isn't it like a $200 tax stamp or something. It can be done, but I wouldn't do it without going through the proper channels. I'd hate to think the trouble you'd be in without that. But, with my foggy memory, I'm apt to get you in trouble.

[colombo]

Actually you could turn it into a rifle but the barrel has to be done first and permanently i.e. welded on extension they may still allow blind pinning and I believe silver soldering is kosher, make sure to check. Then you can add the full stock but you can never convert back to a pistol. Local laws may also come into play.

I have personally done this modification on several weapons (not this particular model however) Done a few shotguns in reverse too (short barrel with muzzle device bringing it to 18+"), a particularly difficult job without a paperwork violation.

[Savvy Jack]

Leave it and just go buy a rifle, or get a carry license and carry it with pride.

BTW, why are you thinking it NOT be accurate? Revolvers are accurate and most have shorter barrels.

[jh45gun]

They are accurate. As usual a lot of folks bash them because they are different. They have a use just as any handgun does. The correct name for the gun is Rossi Ranch Hand.

[Savvy Jack]

They have a use......

Exactly

[nagantguy]

Also featured in the movie zombie land. Saw a fellow at the range doing some nice shooting with one chambered for .38/.357 at the 100 yard bench.

[jh45gun]

Also featured in the movie zombie land. Saw a fellow at the range doing some nice shooting with one chambered for .38/.357 at the 100 yard bench.

The TV series Firefly also had a character Zoe who used one in the TV show. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v454/jh45gun/5478thB.jpg

[skiforce75]

They are accurate. As usual a lot of folks bash them because they are different. They have a use just as any handgun does. The correct name for the gun is Rossi Ranch Hand.
I, for one, am not bashing them. I just do not want one nor do I see the purpose. To each his own. If someone wants to buy one, so be it. I am glad they can.

[bangerjim]

The Rossi Ranch Hand.

It's a coooool gun. I prefer the 38/357 model as I have tons of molds/brass for that cal.

It IS a pistol, not a rifle. If you want a rifle, buy one as stated above. And it cannot be modified with a longer standard stock or your pay the fed fees or 5 years in prison!

Even Sportsmans Whorehouse sells them for around $449......NEW.

Have seen vidoes of kill shots at 100 yards. (I'm not that good!) Iron sights and a long barrel are OK....better than a standard pistol with short barrel.

Kinda funky to shoot....... but loads of fun.

bangerjim

[j_dude77]

As stated by others, if you want a rifle, just get the 16" version. The heartache and BS you have to go through to make a SBR is no fun.

[Loudenboomer]

I had a long conversation with my local BATF special agent. I was going to start SBR paper work. I was told I did not need to. He told me my Rossi Ranch hand is a hand gun. It is cerialized as a handgun. It was purchased as a hand gun. It will always be a hand gun. Adding a pad or bumper of any length to my existing stock does not change the Ranch hand from being a hand gun. My Ranch wears a long pad and a full leather cover it is still legal a hand gun.

[dkf]

I had a long conversation with my local BATF special agent. I was going to start SBR paper work. I was told I did not need to. He told me my Rossi Ranch hand is a hand gun. It is cerialized as a handgun. It was purchased as a hand gun. It will always be a hand gun. Adding a pad or bumper of any length to my existing stock does not change the Ranch hand from being a hand gun. My Ranch wears a long pad and a full leather cover it is still legal a hand gun.


Confused here.

With an AR you can have a barrel shorter than 16" in length with a "pistol" lower but if you put a stock on it the pistol is now an SBR and needs NFA paperwork. This is why many builds start out a pistol with a sub 16" barrel (with unpinned muzzle device) and then get turned into a rifle when the paperwork comes back. How is a 12" lever gun going to differ?

I would do research, read and print out the actual law from the BATF website. Don't sound right to me.

[j_dude77]

Local to me a fellow has a rossi 44 mag "mini ranch" lever gun for sale. It looks rather odd with a baby short stock and a pregnant looking leather covered lever. So what is the deal on this rifle ?. Is it worth as much as $450 ?. Can you obtain a regular length stock for such a thing ?.

A little warning to everyone. Do not, and I repeat do not trust what a law enforcement official tells you. Most of the time they do not know the exact wording of the law, and they do not care. Also the cop said it was legal is not a defense in court.

The question at hand is "Can you obtain a regular length stock for such a thing"? Yes you can. If you did and put it on the ranch hand, it is no longer a pistol. It becomes a SBR because now it meets the legal definition of a rifle. The ranch hand is a pistol due to it not being intended to be fired from the shoulder.

18 USC 921(a)

(7) The term "rifle" means a weapon designed or redesigned, made
or remade, and intended to be fired from the shoulder and designed
or redesigned and made or remade to use the energy of an explosive
to fire only a single projectile through a rifled bore for each
single pull of the trigger.
(8) The term "short-barreled rifle" means a rifle having one or
more barrels less than sixteen inches in length and any weapon made
from a rifle (whether by alteration, modification, or otherwise) if
such weapon, as modified, has an overall length of less than twenty-
six inches.

[dkf]

A little warning to everyone. Do not, and I repeat do not trust what a law enforcement official tells you. Most of the time they do not know the exact wording of the law, and they do not care. Also the cop said it was legal is not a defense in court.

The question at hand is "Can you obtain a regular length stock for such a thing"? Yes you can. If you did and put it on the ranch hand, it is no longer a pistol. It becomes a SBR because now it meets the legal definition of a rifle. The ranch hand is a pistol due to it not being intended to be fired from the shoulder.

18 USC 921(a)

(7) The term "rifle" means a weapon designed or redesigned, made
or remade, and intended to be fired from the shoulder and designed
or redesigned and made or remade to use the energy of an explosive
to fire only a single projectile through a rifled bore for each
single pull of the trigger.
(8) The term "short-barreled rifle" means a rifle having one or
more barrels less than sixteen inches in length and any weapon made
from a rifle (whether by alteration, modification, or otherwise) if
such weapon, as modified, has an overall length of less than twenty-
six inches.

That is what I thought. Thanks for posting that. Could save someone some time in the clink with "bubba".

[220swiftfn]

I had a long conversation with my local BATF special agent. I was going to start SBR paper work. I was told I did not need to. He told me my Rossi Ranch hand is a hand gun. It is cerialized as a handgun. It was purchased as a hand gun. It will always be a hand gun. Adding a pad or bumper of any length to my existing stock does not change the Ranch hand from being a hand gun. My Ranch wears a long pad and a full leather cover it is still legal a hand gun.

Until you put a full length buttstock on it, at which point you're breaking the law.......


Dan

[Artful]

If you intend to fire from the shoulder you should first get approval to SBR it, the $200 tax stamp will save any confusion at your trial.

[starmac]

What is the appeal of getting one of these and going through the trouble, the paperwork and the hassle of making a legal sbr?? Am I missing out on something here???

[OverMax]

Why chance getting pinched with something like that. Its a LE individuals call at the moment. If he considers 12 inches sawed off? Whether you did it or a factory no matter. It's in or perhaps I should say was in your possession.

O/M

[Loudenboomer]

If you intend to fire from the shoulder you should first get approval to SBR it, the $200 tax stamp will save any confusion at your trial.

This is good advice. I should not have applied my previous 2 cents. The ranch hand issue is very grey. Ranch dog at his Rossi web site has similar findings to mine but don't chance it. 3 safe choices here. Leave your Ranch Hand alone. Pay the Tax or buy a rifle.

[metalbender]

Have posted this before on here, gladly do it again. The Ranch Hand with a full butt stock makes a fine bush/camp gun. For the north, 44mag with 300 gr XTP is my go to gun. We can't have any fun with handguns here in Canuckland so this is as close as it gets legally.
http://i952.photobucket.com/albums/ae4/metalbendr/IMG_2451_zps3eb6da51.jpg (http://s952.photobucket.com/user/metalbendr/media/IMG_2451_zps3eb6da51.jpg.html)
http://i952.photobucket.com/albums/ae4/metalbendr/IMG_2551_zps6c0d0fbc.jpg (http://s952.photobucket.com/user/metalbendr/media/IMG_2551_zps6c0d0fbc.jpg.html)

[220swiftfn]

Why chance getting pinched with something like that. Its a LE individuals call at the moment. If he considers 12 inches sawed off? Whether you did it or a factory no matter. It's in or perhaps I should say was in your possession.

O/M

NOT a "grey area" at all, the Ranch Hand is manufactured and sold as a handgun, and as such are subject to the laws regarding handguns, including attaching a full length buttstock......


Unfortunately, the wording of the law can easily be abused by an aggressive, over-reaching prosecutor. In particular is the phrase "or the parts required to assemble {the illegal SBR, machinegun, what have you}". Going by this, if you own a Ranch Hand HANDGUN, and also own a full length Rossi '92, the argument COULD be made that you were in violation of the law because you had all the parts necessary, regardless of whether or not they were in fact two complete individual firearms in your posession.



Dan

[220swiftfn]

Have posted this before on here, gladly do it again. The Ranch Hand with a full butt stock makes a fine bush/camp gun. For the north, 44mag with 300 gr XTP is my go to gun. We can't have any fun with handguns here in Canuckland so this is as close as it gets legally.
http://i952.photobucket.com/albums/ae4/metalbendr/IMG_2451_zps3eb6da51.jpg (http://s952.photobucket.com/user/metalbendr/media/IMG_2451_zps3eb6da51.jpg.html)
http://i952.photobucket.com/albums/ae4/metalbendr/IMG_2551_zps6c0d0fbc.jpg (http://s952.photobucket.com/user/metalbendr/media/IMG_2551_zps6c0d0fbc.jpg.html)

Kindof makes you think "What's the big deal with this "SBR" stuff????" I happen to agree, it would make a fine handling "brush popper" as you have found. Unfortunately, we down here in the states are saddled with that being "verboten" without paperwork to the contrary......



Dan

[jh45gun]

Why chance getting pinched with something like that. Its a LE individuals call at the moment. If he considers 12 inches sawed off? Whether you did it or a factory no matter. It's in or perhaps I should say was in your possession.

O/M

Should be no chance it is a LEGAL Pistol and manufactured as such with full knowledge
by the BATF

[jh45gun]

NOT a "grey area" at all, the Ranch Hand is manufactured and sold as a handgun, and as such are subject to the laws regarding handguns, including attaching a full length buttstock......


Unfortunately, the wording of the law can easily be abused by an aggressive, over-reaching prosecutor. In particular is the phrase "or the parts required to assemble {the illegal SBR, machinegun, what have you}". Going by this, if you own a Ranch Hand HANDGUN, and also own a full length Rossi '92, the argument COULD be made that you were in violation of the law because you had all the parts necessary, regardless of whether or not they were in fact two complete individual firearms in your posession.



Dan

That is a stretch at best if your going to use that argument then you could say you could take any pistol and adapt your Winchester or Marlin lever gun stock to it with a little adapting. That is about as foolish of an argument.

[jh45gun]

Well both Loudenboomer and Ranchdog have both talked to BATF agents and both got the same response on putting on a short butt extension. Many make cuffs that have extra shells too. The BATF agent Ranchdog talked to likened it to putting on a over the grip rubber sleeve like on a 1911 or a glock or any other hand gun. As long as you do not permanently change the stock as you would with a full length stock it is legal. Now I think they may have an argument if you put a long extension on it but most guys are putting like three inch extensions on them that lace on or elastic cuffs and they come right off.

[dkf]

That is a stretch at best if your going to use that argument then you could say you could take any pistol and adapt your Winchester or Marlin lever gun stock to it with a little adapting. That is about as foolish of an argument.

Intent would have to be proven. If you got a Ranch Hand and a standard sized lever rifle both completely assembled as was from the factory there is not any intent there. Got a full length stock sitting near the Ranch Hand maybe a jury would buy the intent.

Honestly I would like to see the NFA BS go away.

[jh45gun]

Yea me too.

[220swiftfn]

That is a stretch at best if your going to use that argument then you could say you could take any pistol and adapt your Winchester or Marlin lever gun stock to it with a little adapting. That is about as foolish of an argument.

And yet people have been convicted of having "bomb making components" for the normal stuff that's in just about every house in America.... (In this instance, it was a "dog pile" charge, but it made it thru) Like I said, an agressive, over-reaching prosecutor COULD add this as a charge the way the law is written.....


Dan

[Maximumbob54]

Honestly I would like to see the NFA BS go away.

Amen to that.

I may still buy a Ranch Hand as I think they look pretty fun. I would love one in .38/.357 for range time plinking fun.

[KCSO]

Off of a sandbag rest they are surprisingly accurate and you gain abot 200 fps velocity over a standard pistol. I too thought there was no practical use for one til I pakced one on a motorcycle trip. Made a good camp gun and with shot shells a reasonable snake gun and was easier to pack than the snakecharmer I was using. Enough power in a pinch in 357 to take a deer and with wadcutters a good rabbit and squirrel gun.

[jh45gun]

Too many guys here with the What IF scenarios that are just trying to find an excuse not to like them or find a reason the rest of us that do like them should not have them. It is a legal pistol that is enough to satisfy the letter of the law. KCSO thanks for the good report on the usefulness of one.

[Hamish]

I think that if the Cowboy Action Shooters were to start shootin IHMSA style silhouette matches then this would be a perfect fit out to 150m. (yee-haw):bigsmyl2:

[starmac]

Too many guys here with the What IF scenarios that are just trying to find an excuse not to like them or find a reason the rest of us that do like them should not have them. It is a legal pistol that is enough to satisfy the letter of the law. KCSO thanks for the good report on the usefulness of one.

I don't know, i have zero use for a ranch hand, I also have zero use for an ar, BUT I will support your right to own and shoot whatever blows your dress up. It is just not something that catches my fancy. A local gun store owner that deals primarily in tacticool guns, sometimes calls me when he takes in something on trade he thinks would interest me, since he knows I am a lever buff, he couldn't understand why I had no interest in a ranch hand he traded for.

Disclaimer I own many guns that in all actually, I have zero use for. lol I could get by and even be happy with two rifles, a 22 and a big game, two handguns also a 22 and a big bore and a decent double barrel shotgun, but I have an uncontrollable habit of buying what I want. lol If you want a ranch hand, that should be a good enough reason to own one as far as I am concerned.

[jh45gun]

It was good enough for me! :)

[mikeym1a]

The Rossi Ranch Hand.

It's a coooool gun. I prefer the 38/357 model as I have tons of molds/brass for that cal.

It IS a pistol, not a rifle. If you want a rifle, buy one as stated above. And it cannot be modified with a longer standard stock or your pay the fed fees or 5 years in prison!

Even Sportsmans Whorehouse sells them for around $449......NEW.

Have seen vidoes of kill shots at 100 yards. (I'm not that good!) Iron sights and a long barrel are OK....better than a standard pistol with short barrel.

Kinda funky to shoot....... but loads of fun.

bangerjim
You could always put an Aimpoint, or a good pistol scope on it.............

[rhead]

I put a single point sling on mine. With it slung across the chest I can hold it like a rifle with slight pressure pushing outward and hold it steady while sighting and firing. also ig you happen to be wearing Carhart or Dicky carpenter jeans the muzzel can be steadied in the pocket for the carpenters rule.

It is not as accurate as a rifle and not as handy as a revolver. It is fun to shoot.

[jh45gun]

I put a single point sling on mine. With it slung across the chest I can hold it like a rifle with slight pressure pushing outward and hold it steady while sighting and firing. also ig you happen to be wearing Carhart or Dicky carpenter jeans the muzzel can be steadied in the pocket for the carpenters rule.

It is not as accurate as a rifle and not as handy as a revolver. It is fun to shoot.
Yes fun to shoot but I debate the part of them being accurate or not as handy as a revolver depends on the revolver. Some revolvers are pretty big and bulky. I think they are quite handy.