Most efficient single shot round?

[wolfe28]

Good evening;

Just because I'm curious, what do you think the most efficient round for a single shot is? By efficient, I mean: legal for at least deer sized game in most states (although being able to be used for a variety of game would be a plus), and uses the least amount of powder and lead.

For me, I would probably vote for a 357 magnum (you are welcome to disagree). 158-200g for deer, 125g for small game, and reasonable velocities with 12-18g of powder.

Okay, fire away.

D

[Good Cheer]

To answer your question, I have to look at it from the stand point of how far away would I need it to do the job.
Back just before the smokeless fad caught on Paul Mauser had done the testing, put together the most efficient black powder cartridge he could and came up with a 9.5mm bottle neck. Being a cast kid I duplicated his efforts for smokeless and came up with about the same thing.
Reckon form follows function no matter what the calendar says. :drinks: Here's to yah Paul!

[hardy]

Hi,30-30 springs to mind Cheers,Mike

[jmort]

Efficiency and the .308 are synonymous. Love the .357, but not enough juice at 100 yards in some states.

[dtknowles]

I vote for .357 Maximum. Room or a little more powder and heavier boolit when you need it and will fire .357 mag or .38 special for when you need less.

Tim

[shredder]

I agree with all the choices so far and I will add one more. .44 mag. For shots within 100-150 yards it is the exact duplicate, in a rifle, of my muzzle loader's favorite loads. I can tell you they will kill just about anything that walks inside of 100. I am talking about the Hornady 240 grain and 300 grain xtp at 1600 and 1400 fps approx depending on your load, your rifle, and it's barrel length.

Unconventional for sure, foolish to some, but a sure killer to those who have used it.

[shredder]

I would also like to offer up the hoary old .303 british. A rimmed round, it is ideally suited to the sometimes weaker extraction found on singles. Loaded to original specs it has accounted for every thing that walks, crawls, flies or swims. Lots of power for even the biggest stuff with the right bullets. A lover of cast boolits as well. A modern version of the .303 chamber without the notoriously loose military tolerances should just about make it the #1 overall pick I reckon.

Next!......

[Jupiter7]

Efficient? 300aac blackout comes to mind, pretty much all charges are under 20grs, uses magnum pistol powders, small rifle primers and tons of options in .30 cal molds and j words. Also allows for easy neck sizing vs. straight wall pistol cartridges.

[Iowa Fox]

Here's what I can tell you from my empirical experience with the Contender & Encore using straight wall cases in rifle barrels that I own. The 357 Max is OK but the 375 Win and 44 Mag are oh so much better. I can't use a bottle neck case for deer in Iowa but if I could I would like to try the 7MM Thor bullet in the Contender chambered for 7MM TCU. I'm not sure if Indiana is a straight wall or bottle neck case for deer.

[williamwaco]

+ 1 for the .30-30.

I love the .357 but it is not as versatile as the .30-30.

From the standpoint of the cast bullet reloader, there is very little difference between the .30-30 and the .308.

Of course if you want a real thumper, go with the .358 Win.

[canyon-ghost]

There are so many efficient cartridges, you can spend a lot of time there.

[DeanWinchester]

Second the vote for 30/30 or .358 Winchester

[DeanWinchester]

+ 1 for the .30-30.

I love the .357 but it is not as versatile as the .30-30.

From the standpoint of the cast bullet reloader, there is very little difference between the .30-30 and the .308.



There's one very distinct difference. The length of the neck. This gives the ole 30/30 a very big advantage.

[wolfe28]

Here's what I can tell you from my empirical experience with the Contender & Encore using straight wall cases in rifle barrels that I own. The 357 Max is OK but the 375 Win and 44 Mag are oh so much better. I can't use a bottle neck case for deer in Iowa but if I could I would like to try the 7MM Thor bullet in the Contender chambered for 7MM TCU. I'm not sure if Indiana is a straight wall or bottle neck case for deer.

IN is a straight wall state, and 357 mag is as small as they'll go. If it was different, I'd be all over a 6.5 or 7 TCU.

D

[Mk42gunner]

Efficiency and legality are two very different things. The .22 Long Rifle is very efficient, but the only place I know of it being legal for big game in recent memory, is certain places in Alaska when used by Inuits for swimming caribou.

The .22 Hornet is legal in Missouri for deer, and uses less powder and lead than the .357 Magnum. Is it as good a choice? Not in my opinion.

Same with the .25-20 and .32-20, they will work if everything goes right, but remember Murphy's law.

As you go up in bore size, lead use goes up faster than powder usage.

The .357 isn't bad, not legal in some states for deer, but will kill them with the right shooter.

If I had to pick one cartridge for single shot rifle cast boolit deer hunting, I think it would be the .35 WCF. It has a rim for the extractor to grab and is a bit more powerful than the .35 Remington.

Robert

[ktw]

Just because I'm curious, what do you think the most efficient round for a single shot is? By efficient, I mean: legal for at least deer sized game in most states (although being able to be used for a variety of game would be a plus), and uses the least amount of powder and lead.

Its not a cartridge gun. It's a flintlock, roundball twist muzzleloader. Cheaper per shot than most cartridge guns and almost doubles the length of your deer season in many states.

-ktw

[smokey496]

I vote for the 30-30. Load it light or load it heavy.

[kenyerian]

44 mag gets my vote for a straight wall case.

[Clay M]

Efficiency and the .308 are synonymous.


.308 also get my vote for efficiency. It is also my favorite cartridge.

[jmort]

"I vote for the 30-30. Load it light or load it heavy."

The 300 ACC Blackout is a good pick. The .30-30 nominations make sense. But there are similar loads for the .308 up to 200 grain boolits in Lyman's Cast 4th and the .30-30 ends at 170. I know you can probably go heavier than 170 grains with the .30-30, but the .308 works well with cast.

[Copper75]

+1 for 300 BLK

load light subs for small game or heavy for deer, etc. out to 400 yards.

[rockrat]

I would go with 357max or 30-30 second. In my Ruger #1 357max, I can get some amazing speeds out of some loads. 2100fps out of a 200gr 35-200 boolit.

[quilbilly]

it would be a tossup between the 7mm TCU and the 357 max

[357maximum]

357MAX = 2100FPS+ with a 180 grainer and 22.5 grains of VHit N-120 out of a 15 inch "pistol" barrel won that contest for me here in (barely) Southern Michigan.

I only have to travel 3/4 mile north to use the great and efficient little 7MM-TCU 21 inch carbine though.

[Outpost75]

Great thread! I have enjoyed reading this, and have owned insingle-shots in most of the calibers mentioned, and hunted with them enough to form some opinions.

In Eastern woodlands where there are no predators large enough to eat you, and there is little need to shoot game larger than deer, the .357 Mag., .44 Mag. and. 30-30 are all good choices.

In bear, moose and elk country .44 Mag. or. 30-30 are marginal, and you must generally limit shots to 100-150 yards.

In open country where shots are likely to exceed 200 yards, and where elk or moose size game can be expected to be routine, the .303 British or 7.62x54R Russian are about ideal. The 180-grain factory loads are suitable for any North American game. Surplus ammo is a plus. The 30-30 is a passable substitute only because it is so common.

A sturdy single shot. 303, though, is hard to beat. In a strong action like a Greener-Martini or Ruger, that would be grand!

[Outpost75]

But reality rearing its ugly head, in an off the shelf rifle best bet is a Ruger No.1 in either. 30-'06, .270, 7mm Mag., .300 Mag. or. 375 H&H. Any of these will do the work.

[pressonregardless]

From the standpoint of the cast bullet reloader, there is very little difference between the .30-30 and the .308.

That's what I was thinking.

[wolfe28]

I would go with 357max or 30-30 second. In my Ruger #1 357max, I can get some amazing speeds out of some loads. 2100fps out of a 200gr 35-200 boolit.

Care to share that 357 max load? I've been trying to work up a combination like that for my contender.

D

[Texantothecore]

Flintlocks are quite efficient. No brass, no primers. You can shoot them at boresize or multiple patch them to a smaller size, possibly much smaller.

Cartridges would be .308 and .357. Both shoot roundball quite well with very little powder and IIRC the rounball weighs about 45 grns for the .308 and 60 grns or so for the .357. Extremely efficient. Cheap shooting while not giving up your ability to take a deer.

My own favorites are all straight wall cases because they do well with black powder and if you neck size only, the brass will last forever. My .45-70 can be used with a 405 grn bullet as the standard load, 300 grn for deer, and 144 grn roundball for rabbits at 450 per second and apparently it can be used as a shotgun. Very efficient if you like owning one platform which functions as three or more different guns.

[gnoahhh]

My vote for a solution to the OP's premise would be the .357 Maximum too. But, if I were building yet another single shot strictly for Eastern woodlands deer hunting it would be a .30/30. Not as efficient as the Max per the OP's guidelines, but more versatile IMO. To combine deer-'friendly' with the potential for bigger game, I would opt for the .30/40 Krag or .303 British. In fact if I could (gasp!) have just one single shot for everything, it would be one of those two- preferably in a Winchester HiWall but I wouldn't turn down a large Martini (if not a Hagn or Blaser).

[hardy]

My vote for a solution to the OP's premise would be the .357 Maximum too. But, if I were building yet another single shot strictly for Eastern woodlands deer hunting it would be a .30/30. Not as efficient as the Max per the OP's guidelines, but more versatile IMO. To combine deer-'friendly' with the potential for bigger game, I would opt for the .30/40 Krag or .303 British. In fact if I could (gasp!) have just one single shot for everything, it would be one of those two- preferably in a Winchester HiWall but I wouldn't turn down a large Martini (if not a Hagn or Blaser).

Yup,a large Martini sounds good about now,followed by several more! LOL Mike

[Boneguru]

.375 JDJ .444 necked down to .375, in 1984 it was credited with taking every game animal in the world to include african elephant.
doesn't leave much in the usable realm for the ground squirrels....
great set-up on an Encore in 24", brass is easy to aquire and the range of bullets isnt too bad, but by casting you can really strech out the functionality
Ray

[.45Cole]

I surmise you planned on a giant cartridge debate, but the bait tastes too good.
32-20- a pinch of powder (black or smokeless) and 100gr of lead. Will take tons of things, and can be loaded to a .22 rifle report.

[wtfooptimax200]

This topic is awesome. I don't have a horse in this race, but plan to some day. In the time I've spent pondering I'd say if it were me I'd go the 357 max route. I have no real world experience to back it up, but I when I get one I will be a very happy camper!

[DIRT Farmer]

My vote is a smooth bore flint trade gun in 28 ga/ 54 cal. With pratice good for big game to 100 yds loaded with shot small game, and bismuth, water foul. You can make your own powder amd flints.

You could become a one gun hunter.

[wolfe28]

I surmise you planned on a giant cartridge debate, but the bait tastes too good.
32-20- a pinch of powder (black or smokeless) and 100gr of lead. Will take tons of things, and can be loaded to a .22 rifle report.

Honestly, I was really just curious what everybody thought. I'm in the 357 mag-max camp, because my contender will shoot both. I've also considered the 32 caliber range for the same reasons. The problem with the 32's is that they aren't legal in many states (particularly Indiana, where I am).

I appreciate all the responses.

D

[Artful]

Good evening;

Just because I'm curious, what do you think the most efficient round for a single shot is?

By efficient, I mean:

legal for at least deer sized game in most states (although being able to be used for a variety of game would be a plus),

and uses the least amount of powder and lead.

For me, I would probably vote for a 357 magnum (you are welcome to disagree). 158-200g for deer, 125g for small game, and reasonable velocities with 12-18g of powder.

Okay, fire away.

D

Well, you made a good choice as far as efficiency goes but as far as legal to hunt deer with that may be a different question....

Here's a list from 2008 I found
Over half the states and provinces allow .22 caliber centerfires for big game hunting.
http://www.huntingnet.com/forum/whitetail-deer-hunting/227252-legal-rifle-calibers-state.html


Alabama- centerfire
Alaska- centerfire
Alberta- .23 and up centerfire
Arizona- centerfire
Arkansas- .22 and up centerfire
California- centerfire
Colorado- .24 and up, 70grn or larger bullet/ minimum of 1000ft/lbs at 100 yards
Connecticut- .243 and up if legal in your area
Delaware- shotgun/muzzle loader
Florida- centerfire
Georgia- .22 and up centerfire
Hawaii- Any rifle with at least 1200 ft/lbs of ME. This would start at around .223 I think
Idaho- Centerfire (cannot weigh more than 16 lbs?)
Illinois- Shotgun/ML/Pistol only
Indiana- Rifles with pistol calibers/shotgun/ML/Pistols
Iowa- .24 or larger centerfire only for antlerless season in part of the state.
Kansas- .23 or larger centerfire (actually says larger than .23 so maybe .24 is the mininum)
kentucky- centerfire
Louisiana- .22 and up centerfire
Maine- .22 magnum rimfire and up!
Manitoba- Centerfire, but it says .23 and below not recommended. Does not say illegal though.
Maryland- ME of at least 1200 ft/lbs
Mass- Shotgun/ML
Michigan- centerfire in certain areas
Minnesota- .24 and up centerfire
Mississippi- No restrictions that I could find
Missouri- centerfire
Montana- No restrictions
Nebraska- Rifles with 900 ft/lbs or more at 100 yards
Nevada- .22 centerfire and up
New Hampshire- centerfire
New Jersey- shotgun only
New Mexico- centerfire
New York- centerfire
North Carolina- No restrictions
North Dakota- .22-.49 centerfire
Nova Scotia- .23 and up
Ohio- Shotgun/ML
Oklahoma- centerfire with 55 grn or heavier bullet
Ontario- centerfire
Oregon- .22 centerfire and up
Pennsylvania- centerfire
Quebec- 6mm/.243 and up
Rhode Island- shotgun/ML
Saskatchewan- .24 and up
South Carolina- centerfire
South Dakota- rifles with 1,000 ft/lbs or more ME
Tennessee- centerfire
Texas- centerfire
Utah- centerfire
vermont- No restriction
Virginia- .23 centerfire and up
Washington- .24 centerfire and up
West Virginia- .25 rimfire and up and all centerfire
Wisconsin- .22 centerfire and up
Wyoming- .23 centerfire and up

So from the list - Centerfire - .24 and larger - 70 grain + bullet - 1200 ft/lbs at muzzle and 1000 at 100 yards
- Pistol Caliber would give you all but a few states...

The 357 magnum usually by factory ballistic's won't meet 1200 ft / lbs at muzzle and 1000 at 100 yard criteria...

Cartridges that just over 1000 ft/lbs at 100 yards would be the most efficient in theory ...
6.8 SPC meets the criteria except for pistol caliber
300 Blackout/Whisper does as well except for pistol caliber
7.62x39 and 30-30 meets the criteria except for pistol caliber
357 Maximum will meet all criteria in a contender barrel
475 Linebaugh, 454 Casull and 460 S&W meet all criteria

to me 357 Max. would be the choice - if I didn't care about pistol caliber criteria then any of the 30 calibers with 30-30 leading - not so much as sacrificing efficiency over 300 blackout or 7.62x39 but more versatile with heavier boolits.

You could easily pick up a swap barrel in say 12 ga, 357 Maximum and 30-30 and have one gun hunt anywhere arm.

[uscra112]

Why has nobody yet mentioned the .35 Remington? Will do all that the .357 Max will do but with less pressure. At one time I had one centerfire rifle - my Dad's old 336 Marlin. If push comes to shove, it will be the last one in my inventory, too.

[uscra112]

BTW if the .300 BLK is going to be allowed to play, then let the .30 Herrett in, too.

[Artful]

Going to depend upon state laws - from my understanding some just have a couple of factory listings of cartridges that are allowed so don't know if 30 Herrett would be legal. You'd have to check further into state game laws.

[tacklebury]

Try .357 Maximum. I can use .38 S&W for small game or plinking, .38 special for varmints. .357 magnum for defensive and even deer out to 100 yards. and finally the Maximum can take black bear easily and deer out to nearly 200 yards. Good all round gun. 8)

75647

[uscra112]

Another thought - 6mmPPC. Gets above the .24" bore limit that 7 states or provinces have. Load it hot and you're well over 1000 ft-lbs ME, but a full case is only 25 or 30 grains of powder vs. 40 for the .243 Winchester, and j-warts or boolits use only 80 to 100 grains of metal vs. 180 to 200 for the .357s.

[Cosmiceyes]

I actually came up with a few. #1 is the .410 Shotgun/45 Long Colt.It comes in pistol, rifle, and shotgun.Slugs will stomp a deer at a 100 yds.Lite load with 7.5 shot all small game,and fowl..45 Long Colt with heavy boolits will drop a black bear.
#2 .30 Carbine which is both rifle,and pistol 77 grain boolits to 130 grain.Small game to medium with 110-130 being cast.Not much powder,cheap.With a carbine you could wage a war,then shoot some game.Blackhawks,an TC Contenders.
#3 30 Herrett pistol,and rifle. I killed a black bear in Alaska with 150 grain load I worked up.
#4 .308 1 1/2,or .308 inch and a half.Able to use higher pressures than the 30 Herrett.They are wicked accurate.Pistol an rifle.Will go clean through a deer at 200 yds.130 grain.

[357maximum]

A 180 grain RNFP-GC boolit fired at 2150 fps from a 15 inch 357Maximum MGM Custom ENCORE "pistol" will stop just under the hide of a nice buck when you smack him in the boiler at 242 yards. He will be very much dead also. The booom..........wap is also a neat lag to be enjoyed.


I only shot one that far the one time, but it worked great.... as have all the other deer I have killed with it from 40 to 195 yards. It really is the Southern Michigan LEGAL equivalent of the 35REM....I really like that cal to, but I have to travel 3/4 mile north to legally carry a bottleneck cartridge.....at least for the time being. If/when they make pistol cartridge carbines legal here I will likely just have MGM make me a 20 inch 357Max carbine barrel and go whip up a stock for it just so I can get that 20 minutes I lose with a pistol scope back.

[1Shirt]

Don't believe that there is such a thing as "most efficient"! It is a matter of preference and choice, location, shooter ability, type of shooting, etc.etc.etc. If it were me and I was in a wooded area would probably go with a 30-30, as it can be up or down loaded at your convenience. Same is pretty much true for 357 Where Legal. A 30-40 Krag in a #3 Ruger also comes to mind as being a cats a$$ choice of versatility. There are of course others, but I would prefer a rimmed ctg. Note how ever, that in all cases the ability of the shooter to place his boolit is the key to success, and range IMO should be 100 yds or under due to limitation of time/speed of reloading etc. for a follow up shot on game.
1Shirt!

[6.5 mike]

I'm with 1Shirt on the 30-40 Krag, gallery loads for fun & smallish game, & a 311284 or such for bigger game. Although the 7.62x54r & 303 brit would work bout as well in a single shot. Hummmm, C Sharps 1875, 26 inch bbl, d&t'ed for an MVA scope would sure be nice.

[45-70 Chevroner]

Clearly the 30-30. You can shoot boolits from 90 gr. all the way up to 190 gr., at least in my experience. And even a round ball.

[45-70 Chevroner]

Try .357 Maximum. I can use .38 S&W for small game or plinking, .38 special for varmints. .357 magnum for defensive and even deer out to 100 yards. and finally the Maximum can take black bear easily and deer out to nearly 200 yards. Good all round gun. 8)

75647
If your gun is a standard chamber, I don't think you can get a 38 S&W to chamber. It's too fat.

[tacklebury]

Have shot lots. 8) Comes out about 696 with 1.5 gr. bullseye 8) It started life as a .357 Magnum, but was reamed with a .357 Maximum tapered leade rifle reamer to Max. Took about 20 mins to accomplish going slow. 8)

[Rattlesnake Charlie]

Efficient? Practical? Availability?
Scope is undefined. Maybe a shotgun?
I love things like this that get people thinking.

[Kermit1945]

New England Colonial Fowler by Jim Chambers, probably in 10 ga. Does it all.

http://www.flintlocks.com/rifles04.htm

[Scharfschuetze]

I can't add anything new to the thread, but given the parameters of the OP and taking into account where I live, I'd go with either a 30/30 or a 32 Winchester Special in a single shot rifle. Both are pretty efficient and both kill deer pretty well.

I wouldn't turn down a 30/40 Krag either, particularly if living in areas with bigger game than deer.

[EDG]

For me it is a .25-35.

Minimum lead, cheap brass.
Load it light for duplicating the 25-20.
Load it heavy for deer.
Load it with jacketed HP for varmits.

[Hiwall55]

No Price limit,Then I'll go with my Shiloh Sharps in 30/40 Krag

[Andrew Mason]

I would probably have to choose a .308 win
can be loaded with heavy cast boolits,
standard weight range j-word bullets,
and also loaded with plastic .30-.22 cal sabot loads for lazer beam velocity

[ballistim]

357MAX = 2100FPS+ with a 180 grainer and 22.5 grains of VHit N-120 out of a 15 inch "pistol" barrel won that contest for me here in (barely) Southern Michigan.

I only have to travel 3/4 mile north to use the great and efficient little 7MM-TCU 21 inch carbine though.

I have a Contender .357 Maximum 12" bbl chambered by Mike Bellm for hunting whitetail deer in MI with a straight-walled pistol case, & have only used "j" rounds in it so far but want to buy a mold to try cast this year, and am looking at one of the group buys for this.
I'm so jealous, 3/4 mi. away from the rifle zone? Rifle choice would be the only problem for me, too many to choose from!
Having a good assortment of molds would make the .357 Max a good choice across the board for game where I live. Living in the rifle zone would make the .308 and 30-30 the most likely choices for me with all of the molds available. My Buffalo Classic in 45/70 would be cool too, and I've always wanted something chambered in .358 Winchester, but since I'm south of the rifle zone I guess the .357 Max gets my vote.. until I retire, at which point I want to live where I can shoot everything I own... someday...

[pmeisel]

It's not the most efficient, but I have a 444 Marlin because it'll kill anything that walks in these parts. And it's not that inefficient with cast bullets and 2400 if you consider the killing power.

If being frugal was my main concern I would use 357 or 30/30, and I'd prefer both!

[ValorsMinion]

Efficient? 300aac blackout comes to mind, pretty much all charges are under 20grs, uses magnum pistol powders, small rifle primers and tons of options in .30 cal molds and j words. Also allows for easy neck sizing vs. straight wall pistol cartridges.

I would agree. If you think the 357 is good, the 300 blk shoots faster given a similar weight of powder under the same weight bullet with better sectional density... plus it actually has a ballistic coefficient.

I would say you can probably make a case for any of the intermediate rifle cartilages and the wildcats based on them. The 223, 7.62x39, and 6.8 spc and their children (7tcu, 300blk, 6.5 grendel, etc etc etc) are gonna come out pretty good. It is pretty much the philosophy of these types of cartridges... they were made to be effective on medium size animals at intermediate ranges without having too much recoil or having to lug around heavy ammo. No more powder or lead than what is required to get the job done.

While the 223 is probably out due to hunting laws (lots of states require larger than 22 cal), any of its necked up children will work great.

[kens]

Good thread.
I am surprised nobody mentioned a .308 necked up to .35cal. 358 Win.
You could shoot little .38 pistol boolits, or heavy .35 rifle , either way, and throttle it anywhere in between.

[cuzinbruce]

30/30 in a Savage 219.

[Trey45]

I am bias to 38-55.
30WCF too.
35 Remington
358 Winchester
275 Rigby
These are all great, all purpose cartridges in my book. Your book may read differently than mine does.

[seagiant]

I am bias to 38-55.
30WCF too.
35 Remington
358 Winchester
275 Rigby
These are all great, all purpose cartridges in my book. Your book may read differently than mine does.

Hi,
Na! 444 Marlin!:shock:

[Fishman]

Well it's tough to follow Seagiant and that great pic. If by efficiency you mean powder to power ratio it is tough to beat the 30 herret. It is rimmed too which is real nice in a single shot.

[kens]

Well it's tough to follow Seagiant and that great pic. If by efficiency you mean powder to power ratio it is tough to beat the 30 herret. It is rimmed too which is real nice in a single shot.

If .30 herrett is efficient, then also is 7,62x39???

[pls1911]

Efficient by what measure???
The combination of powder vs power vs"enough gun" would bring you to
either the 30/30 or the .308.
Both offer plenty of versatility.
Both are cast bullet friendly.

[Cosmiceyes]

30-40 Kraig great boolit,best powder selection as it was created to use black powder.Beautiful case neck making it a re-loader's dream.My first deer at 12 dropped with open sights with the 10.00 military carbine at 200 yards. 220 grain Silver tips. I have a 357 mag Browning 92,but I know it's limitations with 200-180 j-boolits.180gr cast boolits on compressed loads so they can feed through action,and not be top feed like the j's still don't have a flat enough range.

[wolfe28]

Efficient by what measure???
The combination of powder vs power vs"enough gun"

Exactly, a combination of all three. Here, I'm defining efficiency by the smallest amount of power and lead used, with the maximum potential to be "enough gun" at mid-western/east coast hunting distances (not above 150-200 yards) and be legal to hunt with. Here in Indiana, my vote still goes to either a 357 Mag or Max (my contender shoots both). There really isn't a "wrong" answer.

D

[nanuk]

Exactly, a combination of all three. Here, I'm defining efficiency by the smallest amount of power and lead used, with the maximum potential to be "enough gun" at mid-western/east coast hunting distances (not above 150-200 yards) and be legal to hunt with. Here in Indiana, my vote still goes to either a 357 Mag or Max (my contender shoots both). There really isn't a "wrong" answer.

D

would the 308 1.5 Barnes fit your parameters?

[Jack D]

There's one very distinct difference. The length of the neck. This gives the ole 30/30 a very big advantage.

I'd say the .357 is all neck. :bigsmyl2:

[barrabruce]

30-30 is my choice.
Simply obtainable if caught out of ammo.
Good enough for most things with in reasonable shooting range.

Small 30 cal hole'd be better in smaller pot animals than a 357 hole.

Most 357 mag guns I have seen are only good enough for about 2-3" at 100 yrds.
While 30-30's can shoot less than 1 1/2" easily enough.

While I may splurge out and use a grain or 2 of extra bulleye in me mouse fart loads I think its pretty efficient.

A gun in 30-30 is invisible to people.
Honestly!!!!

A 30-30 it'll bounce of most things past 100yrds if you actually do/can / lucky enough to hit anything.
Being so out-dated and anaemic it should have been discontinued by now.
Or it'll be "yeah just good enough ".
And for the killer don't scare farmers off with words of "magnum" or "newfangled things"

I'm sure there are many other reasons too.

Well it has got a rim and a nice long neck!!!!

[smilie=1:

Barra

Then again a 357 mag in a martini cadet 'd be nice too.
About as much fun as you need in one without trying to leave imprints of the butt plate in your shoulder.

[wildcatter]

for any small game up to whitetail, another vote for the 30/30

When I hunt whitetail and bigger game, I like BIG HOLES My 45's start out @ what most big game centerfire rifle shooters want their jacketed bullets to end up at, and that really make's em leak!! I'm gettin old and anymore I don't like to track em!