Stainless Media Weirdness

[MostlyOnThePaper]

I built a rotary tumbler, will post pics after it has some hours on it and I know it's not going to fall apart.

The batch of brass I've been running most of the day is dull on the outside, but the primer pockets and inside are glowing and shiny. The water didn't feel especially slick in spite of substantial suds in the water. My drum holds about 2.5 gallons, first run I used a 45acp case of lemishine and what I thought from the suds had to be too much soap. Next I dumped most of that water and brought it back to 3/4 full. Then another run with about 1/2 as much lemishine. If nobody has any better ideas my next try tomorrow will be with the reduced (1/2 45acp) lemishine and a larger shot of soap. Soap was Dawn.

Randy

[Love Life]

Use more lemishine...

[GRUMPA]

+1 on the above.....

I was being to conservative with the Lemi-Shine when I was tumbling and it was hit and miss with the shine, added a bit more and that issue was solved..

[Airman Basic]

After running with dawn and lemishine, cases look spectacular, but in a week or so, they turn almost a copper shade. Assuming the brass is tarnishing, what causes this? Doesn't happen with dry media.

[GRUMPA]

After running with dawn and lemishine, cases look spectacular, but in a week or so, they turn almost a copper shade. Assuming the brass is tarnishing, what causes this? Doesn't happen with dry media.

They will look great but the brass itself is exposed to the air. When it's been tumbled in corn cob or walnut media the media has a polish that basically coats the brass and blocking the air which cause it to change color. I'm sure there's variables like humidity and such but I've had mine sit up to a year with very little change, perhaps that's because I live in a semi-arid climate.

[VHoward]

I live on the Oregon coast and I have some brass I wet tumbled last year that still looks shiny and new. Very humid here. Might have more to do with how well you rinse the brass after tumbling and how hard you rinse water is.

[Love Life]

After running with dawn and lemishine, cases look spectacular, but in a week or so, they turn almost a copper shade. Assuming the brass is tarnishing, what causes this? Doesn't happen with dry media.

After you clean it with the SS tumbling setup your brass is nekid.

After you clean it with SS tumbling lay it out and let it dry. After it is dry (I let it sit 24 hours) run it in corn cob media treated with mineral spirits and NU-finish car polish. I have brass that has been sitting in a tote for 3 weeks and it is still as shiny as when it came out of the tumbler.

As for the above don't skimp on the lemishine or citric acid. My tumbler holds 25 lbs of pins and a couple gallons of water. I add 3 heaping table (like the ones you eat with) spoons of citric acid and then a 4 second squirt of dawn giving the bottle a moderate squeeze.

For citric acid I use pure citric acid from diesel labs. Buy it by the pound. It is pure, organic, non gmo (like any of that matters except for the purity). Lemishine has a funky smell to me and I really have no clue what else may be in it besides citric acid.

[Airman Basic]

If I've got to run it through dry media as well, might as well skip one or the other. Must be a better way.

[Love Life]

You get out of it what you put into it. If you want new looking brass than SS is the way to go, or possibly ceramic media. The down side is having to hit it with the dry media as well.

If you want shiny on the outside, but gross on the inside brass, than dry media only is the way to go.

[Airman Basic]

Not dissing you, but wet & dry is too much sugar for a dime. I can't believe this happens to everybody or surely it would have been mentioned before in the group. I'll figure it out.

[Love Life]

It has happened to quite a few people. They clean it, dry it, store it, and weeks later it has tarnished or discolored.

The dry run stops the tarnishing. There is no figuring it out. If you want your brass to stay shiny you have to hit it with some dry media and polish, or invest in purified water bought from the store.

It was a bummer when it happened to me.

[VHoward]

Or just run your rinse water through a water softener first. Of course the tarnish is not going to effect the way the ammunition performs. I just do it to get the inside and primer pockets clean.

[MostlyOnThePaper]

I will try more lemishine first. I was already planning to follow up with the car wax, protective coating and helps it slide through the dies.

[Mike_60]

More Lemishine and/or less time in the tumbler. Also, I have brass I've cleaned nearly two years ago sitting in boxes waiting to be used that hasn't tarnished any I can see.

[Airman Basic]

Thanks Mike_60, that's the answer I was looking for.

[Mike_60]

Change the water and rinse after about an hour (use the same formulation when refilling it) and run it for another 2-3 more hours depending on the amount of brass. But - do not - let it go much longer than that, or sit in the water for any length of time like overnight, because it will dull the appearance appreciably.

http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o124/oktec60/015_zpsd516212e.jpg (http://s119.photobucket.com/user/oktec60/media/015_zpsd516212e.jpg.html)

http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o124/oktec60/014_zps7991d097.jpg (http://s119.photobucket.com/user/oktec60/media/014_zps7991d097.jpg.html)

[Love Life]

I run my brass for 2 to 2 1/2 hours straight. I do not change the water at all. It comes out nice and pretty.

I fill my drum to the top of the neck with 24 lbs of brass fill it with water until the water is about 3 inches above the brass level. Set it and forget it. I wonder why there is such a difference? Water quality maybe? RPMs? Citric acid? Too much soap?

[NoZombies]

I would bet water quality has more to do with tarnish and end results than most of the other possibilities.

[Recluse]

I have brass that has been sitting in a tote for 3 weeks and it is still as shiny as when it came out of the tumbler.

I have brass that's been sitting in totes for three years and it is still as shiny as when it came out of the tumbler. :) I get the pharmacy to save me all the dessicants that comes in pill bottles and packing, and when I finish cleaning a batch of brass, it goes into a Rubbermaid type of clear shoebox and it throw in several handfuls of dessicants to absorb any moisture in the air. The shoebox then goes in a closed cabinet where it's not exposed to any light.

I've got brass I've cleaned with the Thumler's ten years ago sitting in these clear plastic storage "shoeboxes" of various sizes with lots of dessicants in and the brass looks better than the factory brass you see in the bags at Cabela's or Bass Pro Shops.

The secret, in my opinion, is as you said: Tumble with a capful of mineral spirits and a capful of NuFinish. Nice light coating keeps the tarnish away--inside AND out.

I'm wondering if there isn't a water-based type of wax, such as the automotive waxes you see in spray bottles by Armor All, Turtle Wax, Simoniz, etc. . . wonder if a capful of that added to a clean drum of water and the freshly cleaned brass might provide the same type/level of protection against tarnish?


If I've got to run it through dry media as well, might as well skip one or the other. Must be a better way.

AB, that's pretty much how I feel. The only time I use the wet media is if I get a batch of particularly nasty brass, or if I'm going to tumble a particular batch and store it very long-term. In both instances I still follow up with a trip through the Thumler's using dry media with some mineral spirits and NuFinish tossed in.

I toss in my brass, a capful of mineral spirits, a capful of NuFinish and set the timer for 24 hours and leave the tumbler running. It's in the shop, away from the house, so there's no noise or annoyance factor. I have plenty of brass in all calibers so I'm never short or in a hurry for clean brass, therefore the longer time spent tumbling doesn't bother me a bit.

At the end of the run, I can barely tell any difference between my "dry" tumbled brass and my "wet" tumbled.

The other time I'll wet tumble is when I decide it's time to thoroughly clean the primer pockets, but that is not very often at all.

:coffee:

[Love Life]

I'm wondering if there isn't a water-based type of wax, such as the automotive waxes you see in spray bottles by Armor All, Turtle Wax, Simoniz, etc. . . wonder if a capful of that added to a clean drum of water and the freshly cleaned brass might provide the same type/level of protection against tarnish?




I don't know I screwed up and ran a batch of sized brass with the Unique lube on it through the SS tumbler and it left a nice case lube coating on the inside of the drum, the pins, and the brass. I had to scrub the pins and brass with very hot water and a boat load of Dawn to clean it all out.

If I clean and let it sit, the brass takes 2 weeks to start tarnishing if I don't run it in the dry media with polish.

[gimling]

I live in florida and im on well water, doesn't matter how much lemi shine you put in it eventually u will put too much in and the brass will turn pink. I do a 1 gallon water, 1 tbls dawn, 1 teaspoon, lemi shine they come out perfect but if I leave out in garage over night to dry they oxidize, if I bring them into the house they last longer, there perfectly clean but im a perfectionist, I plan on getting some dry media with some nufinish, or I may see what it does if I just add some nufinish to my stainless media.

and an FYI don't add a brass polish ie brasso etc was the dumbest thing I have done to date on my reloading stuff u will be tumbling the same brass a few time to get rid of that **** :cry:

[altheating]

Lay the dry brass on a clean towel, give it a mist of mineral spirits and take a second towel and rub it across the brass to spread out the mineral spirits. Put the brass in a sealed container. It won't tarnish. As far as the inside, who cares I can't see it with a primer in one end and a boolit in the other.

[MostlyOnThePaper]

First batch with more lemishine is out, they look very nice being so clean inside but not as nice as a lot of the pictures in the many threads which look flat out new. I ran that batch for 2 hours, next batch will go for three and see what it looks like.

[Love Life]

Like this? :mrgreen:

[MostlyOnThePaper]

Yup, just like that.

3hrs is better for me . Might go a teensy shade longer next time, might not. Very lucky to have a job that lets me do this stuff when it's quiet.

Thanks for the nudge in the right direction, glad I built the tumbler now.

Randy

[Bayou52]

Four hours of wet tumbling is the sweet spot for getting outsides, insides, primer pockets and flash holes pristine clean. I use no more than 1 teaspoon of Dawn and absolutely no more than 1/4 teaspoon of Lemi-Shine. Use of too much Lemi-Shine will actually discolor the brass. This is for a 15 pound Thumler's Thumler's Tumbler drum.

To keep tarnish from reappearing after tumbling, I use Lemi-Shine rinse agent in the cold water rinse. Note that this is not the crystals, but rather the liquid rinse agent.

Bayou52

[gunoil]

http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k511/putt2012/E52D630F-ECBD-4346-A8A4-53AEFB476C20-210-000002398A74456C_zps0e2ce52a.mp4

http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k511/putt2012/9EC868CA-88C8-43D0-91CA-827B922D688D-210-0000023EE047DC99_zpsfea7b2fe.mp4

Make one! super speed!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3_FpiTzVYP8

[VHoward]

That looks interesting. How many cases can be done at a time with that one? Just looks kind of small. I built my own frame for the large drum from big dawg tumblers. It will hold 2500 9mm cases or 1500 223 cases and do them in a couple of hours.

[RACWIN375]

I would bet water quality has more to do with tarnish and end results than most of the other possibilities.

I use distilled water ONLY NOW, I have well water that will turn the brass black in two days
I use it in the mix and to rinse off

Rick

[MostlyOnThePaper]

If I wasn't lazy I could be using demineralized water, but I would have to tote the machine quite a bit further to get to it. Softened city water for me.

I was initially using too little lemishine for the size of my drum. Once I use up my present supply of that I will switch to the bags of straight citric acid concentrate.

[Airman Basic]

Well, devil, I was told I was using too much Lemishine for my Model B. Now I'm confused again.

[MostlyOnThePaper]

Like so many things in life, there is a balance. Not an area I am naturally disposed to. More is not always better...
Is there such a thing as too much overkill?

[Love Life]

I have no clue what may or may not cause the bronzing of brass using SS media. It seems it is a random thing. I am not scientific in my amounts of Dawn or citric acid. 3 heaping spoons of citric acid and 4-5 second squirt of dawn. Run for 2 hours without changing the water, and dump out nice shiny brass.

My Bigg Dawg tumbler is the shiz'nit.

[dbosman]

There is a lot of great advice in this thread and one thing that sticks out is that your mileage may vary. Seems silly, but it's true.
We're cleaning a quarter million cases here, using a cement mixer, SS media from STM, Palmolive dish soap, and citric acid - so I have an opinion.

Physical cleaning takes place in the first fifteen minutes. Most of that in the first five. Dumping the dirt-y water and starting over will cut the remaining tumbling time in half. Two hours with enough dish soap produces clean brass and a two inch thick layer of stiff green foam. By the way.

After the brass is really clean and matte bright, another tumbling with fresh water, soap, and citric acid will make it really shiny. I limit that to about half an hour as what comes off at this point is brass. You can see the flecks in the water if the light is bright.

We have two drying areas on the garage floor. One is closer to the fan. Brass on that area tarnishes over night. Eight feet further takes two to four days to tarnish. Dry tumbling in corn cob with mineral spirits and NuFinish car polish restores the shine and lightly polishes for a nice shine and slightly slick feel. (Walmart has the lowest price in my area for NuFinish. It's 2/3 the cost of other stores.)
Turtle wax brand polish polishes but the brass doesn't feel slick.

[Bayou52]

We're cleaning a quarter million cases here, using a cement mixer, SS media from STM, Palmolive dish soap, and citric acid - so I have an opinion.

Just a question:

I was getting SS pins stuck in flash holes in 3 - 5% of the cases using the SS media obtained from the same vendor mentioned in your post. Are stuck pins a problem for you?

If you're tumbling that high a volume of cases, how do you check each case for stuck pins in flash holes? What's your technique for this?

Thanks, in advance, for the helpful feedback -

Bayou 52

[MostlyOnThePaper]

My pins are from Buffalo Arms, they were in the mail already when someone posted an ad here in the classifieds, if i ever have to buy more I'll likely get them here just to support a forum vendor.

I get 4 or 5 stuck oned in each batch, think I'm around 400 in a batch, so yes, maybe 3% or thereabouts.

Randy

[Love Life]

Your pins are to narrow. That is why most dealers of STM have gone to thicker, and longer pins.

[dbosman]

Just a question:
I was getting SS pins stuck in flash holes in 3 - 5% of the cases using the SS media obtained from the same vendor mentioned in your post. Are stuck pins a problem for you?


I don't de-prime the 9mm cases. They are military cases and the primer guarantees they are once fired. ;-)
The SS media I was shipped doesn't stick in the flash holes. Or maybe I agitate the brass more aggressively than you do.

For screening out the pins I use a Lyman media sifter.
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/878190/lyman-turbo-media-sifter

For screening out corncob, I use the black Dillon shell sorter.
http://www.dillonprecision.com/#/content/p/9/pid/25434/catid/8/Shell_Sorter

[RobsTV]

Too much Dawn will make it tarnish quick.

In US cleaner, 1 or 2 drops max is all it takes, and more than that means trouble.
Like Bayou mentions, I would think no more than a teaspoon in a large tumbler sounds about right.

Be careful you don't get the non-concentrated version of Dawn.

[Bayou52]

I've since switched to a larger SS pin with a diameter of 0.047" (as opposed to the 0.041" diameter pins that came with my tumbling kit). As a result, I haven't had a stuck pin in over several thousand recently tumbled cases. I'm a believer in these larger SS pins given the results.

Bayou52