8mm JS

[Mike 56]

I a box of 8mm JS. The bullets are .323 and the cases are stamped 7.92x57. Is this ammo safe to shoot in a 24/47 8mm Mauser.

[Ironnewt]

Did a little research and the answer is..............Yes!

[Mike 56]

Thank you, It looks the same i just wanted to make sure it wasn't loaded different.

[Cosmiceyes]

JS was the last update to the wartime 8x57mm Mauser. Older 1880 not updated guns should not use them. First year for them was 1898 as in 98Mauser.Yours was update in 1947!

[Blammer]

yep, good to go.

[220swiftfn]

JS was the last update to the wartime 8x57mm Mauser. Older 1880 not updated guns should not use them. First year for them was 1898 as in 98Mauser.Yours was update in 1947!

Almost right, the early '98 Mausers still had the .318 bore dimension, the "S" bore (.323) taking place in 1905......


Dan

[Cosmiceyes]

Almost right, the early '98 Mausers still had the .318 bore dimension, the "S" bore (.323) taking place in 1905......


Dan
Only 300,000 98's were made first issue was 1901.Two groups of 290,000 an 210,000 in 1904. In 1905 the change to the S-Patrone boolit required modification of the sights,with the modified"Lange Vizier"much taller than it's predecessor.All rifles converted at this time were marked with a small(2.5mm)"s"above the chamber,and on the barrel at the back of the rear sight base,Nick name of the Lange Vizier was roller coaster.

[3006guns]

The "J" in JS is not a J........it's an italicized "I" and stands for Infantarie Spitzgeshosse, or Infantry Pointed bullet. If it says "JSS" it stands for Infantarie Swchewers Spitzgeshosse, or Infantry Heavy Pointed bullet. Yes, I know I badly misspelled the German but we've been calling these cartridges "J" for years and we're wrong. :)

In any case, the Yugo Mauser will fire just about any normal 8 x 57mm cartridge.

[ukrifleman]

If in doubt, slug the bore.
ukrifleman.

[Mike 56]

Thank you everyone i learned a lot of stuff i did not know.

[Dan Cash]

If in doubt, sent it to me for research and processing.

[220swiftfn]

Only 300,000 98's were made first issue was 1901.Two groups of 290,000 an 210,000 in 1904. In 1905 the change to the S-Patrone boolit required modification of the sights,with the modified"Lange Vizier"much taller than it's predecessor.All rifles converted at this time were marked with a small(2.5mm)"s"above the chamber,and on the barrel at the back of the rear sight base,Nick name of the Lange Vizier was roller coaster.

Yeah, and not all of those Mauser 98's were converted to .323, which was my point, that just because it's a '98 action, doesn't mean it's safe with "S" ball (case in point, there are many early 98 customs that are in fact .318)......


Dan

[Cosmiceyes]

Didn't know agreeing with you would set you off.I typed as it was written in my Mauser rifle book to show you were correct.Nothing other wise was stated. :(


Yeah, and not all of those Mauser 98's were converted to .323, which was my point, that just because it's a '98 action, doesn't mean it's safe with "S" ball (case in point, there are many early 98 customs that are in fact .318)......


Dan

[Cosmiceyes]

Cool I didn't know that.I have my nose in my new 5th edition Mauser book. Haven't made it all the way through.It's funny that Ammo manufactures even use the"J"! :)'s


The "J" in JS is not a J........it's an italicized "I" and stands for Infantarie Spitzgeshosse, or Infantry Pointed bullet. If it says "JSS" it stands for Infantarie Swchewers Spitzgeshosse, or Infantry Heavy Pointed bullet. Yes, I know I badly misspelled the German but we've been calling these cartridges "J" for years and we're wrong. :)

In any case, the Yugo Mauser will fire just about any normal 8 x 57mm cartridge.

[GrizzLeeBear]

You guys are correct that IS ammo should not be fired in any .318 bore rifles. But the issue of converting to the IS bore in 1905 has no bearing on the OP's question. The original model 24's were made in 1924, long after the transition to the IS bore. These were reworked in 1947 to conform to the new M48 pattern Yugo rifles. Some were "shot out" and were rebarreled, but of course the IS bore remained the same. It would be exceedingly rare to find a 24/47 with a .318 bore. That ammo should be perfectly safe in that rifle (if it has correct headspace, etc).

[frnkeore]

I thought that I would throw this in for everyones edification.

In general the groove diameter for the J bore is .320866 (8.15mm) not .318 (that was the J bullet diameter not the groove), you'll note that the only area on the 154 gr JS (10 gram Patrone S) that is over that diameter is the area behind the crimp groove of .324 x .13 in length. They did that so it could safely shoot in a J bore. Also note that even the 198 gr (12.8 gram Patrone sS) BT JS only has .193 of .324 (8.3mm) bearing area but, the pressure is 3600 bar max. vs 3000 bar max. of the 154 gr S. 3600 bar is probably to much for the GEW88 but not the J bore GEW98's. Although the bullets themselfs could be reloaded in a GEW88 at lower pressures.

7562175622

[220swiftfn]

Didn't know agreeing with you would set you off.I typed as it was written in my Mauser rifle book to show you were correct.Nothing other wise was stated. :(

Ah, the hazards of "lack of tone" in the typed word, didn't mean to sound as "harsh" as was taken, my apologies.....


Dan

[220swiftfn]

You guys are correct that IS ammo should not be fired in any .318 bore rifles. But the issue of converting to the IS bore in 1905 has no bearing on the OP's question. The original model 24's were made in 1924, long after the transition to the IS bore. These were reworked in 1947 to conform to the new M48 pattern Yugo rifles. Some were "shot out" and were rebarreled, but of course the IS bore remained the same. It would be exceedingly rare to find a 24/47 with a .318 bore. That ammo should be perfectly safe in that rifle (if it has correct headspace, etc).

Yep, we kinda went off on a tangent to the OP......


Dan

[copperlake]

My 2 cents: the difference in bore diameter doesn't matter in stated arm. I'll stand to be corrected.

[Cosmiceyes]

I thought that I would throw this in for everyones edification.

In general the groove diameter for the J bore is .320866 (8.15mm) not .318 (that was the J bullet diameter not the groove), you'll note that the only area on the 154 gr JS (10 gram Patrone S) that is over that diameter is the area behind the crimp groove of .324 x .13 in length. They did that so it could safely shoot in a J bore. Also note that even the 198 gr (12.8 gram Patrone sS) BT JS only has .193 of .324 (8.3mm) bearing area but, the pressure is 3600 bar max. vs 3000 bar max. of the 154 gr S. 3600 bar is probably to much for the GEW88 but not the J bore GEW98's. Although the bullets themselfs could be reloaded in a GEW88 at lower pressures.

7562175622

I read the American production ammo is low pressure loaded,and the actual boolit dia is listed as .321. So much stuff I didn't know. :)'s

[Cosmiceyes]

Graciously accepted! :)'s

[220swiftfn]

My 2 cents: the difference in bore diameter doesn't matter in stated arm. I'll stand to be corrected.

If you're talking about shooting either diameter in the 24/47, from a safety standpoint, you're correct. However, if he shoots the .318" (assuming he could FIND any, that is) accuracy would be in the dumps, kind of like shooting .30-06 in those Argentines that were rechambered to .30-06 but still had .311 bores......



Dan

[Nickle]

I read the American production ammo is low pressure loaded,and the actual boolit dia is listed as .321. So much stuff I didn't know. :)'s

It is low pressure loaded, as a rule.

Some bullets loaded are .323, some use 32 Special bullets, which are .321.

[Dutchman]

I first ran into this issue of the I and J in Germanic script trying to read Dutch church records doing genealogy with records in the 1500s and 1600s. Until I found this cool chart.

Sometimes the Catlick pastor who was in charge of entering the daily data would write an F but forget the little cross. It ends up looking like the G, I or J. It can get real interesting trying to figure out somebody's name when they do that.

http://images31.fotki.com/v1096/photos/2/28344/2133622/scripta-vi.jpg

Baptismal record from January 1651 Delft, Holland.

http://images59.fotki.com/v255/photos/2/28344/2133622/photo-vi.jpg

[UBER7MM]

There is a Nazi 7.92 x 57 IS (JS) cartridge that is not advisable to fire from bolt action (Mauser 98) rifles. The box is designated with a large red letters: "für MG" on the label. These cartridge pressures are higher and intended for a machine gun presumably the MG-34 and MG-42 etc.

I had an article at one time that stated this. It was either in "HandLoader" or "Rifle" Magazine. Of course, now I can't find the source to quote the article. However, the link below has a photo of the paper cartridge box for reference:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:World_War_2_German_ammunition.JPG

I hope this helps.

Safe shooting,

[Nickle]

Also, Turkish Heavy Ball is on the hot side, from what I see. I may be wrong, but I do know recoil is brutal from an as issued VZ-24 and I'm certainly no shrinking violet. Not so bad on me, but others? Brutal, if they aren't used to heavy recoil.

[UBER7MM]

Also, Turkish Heavy Ball is on the hot side, from what I see. I may be wrong, but I do know recoil is brutal from an as issued VZ-24 and I'm certainly no shrinking violet. Not so bad on me, but others? Brutal, if they aren't used to heavy recoil.

Truth!

Full loads of 8mms aren't for wimps!


Safe reloading, shooting, reloading (generally in that order)

[3006guns]

I bought 3k rounds of that Turk stuff when it hit our shores some years ago. "Hot" is a poor adjective for it, although it was still within the Mauser pressure range! I finally began pulling the bullets and reducing the charge by 10%....then it felt like "normal" 8 x 57mm!

[Nickle]

That Turkish makes a VZ-24 like an M44 Mosin or a #5 SMLE. "Flinch in a box"

[WineMan]

These Mauser history lessons are always fun, if we still had the old encyclopedia sets, they would be full of the back and forth. Bigger bullets in smaller bores are usually not a good idea. My own theory, totally unsubstantiated, is that because of the chance of putting an 8x57 into a 30-06 is very high, the USA suppliers have always kept the pressure low. In Hatcher's notebook, some of the blown up low number Springfields were due using the wrong ammo (and grease on the right ammo).

Dave

[UBER7MM]

I read somewhere that the Winchester Model 95 in 30'06 can force a 8x57 into the chamber because of the mechanical leverage of the arm. There were a few problems after Doughboys brought back captured ammo.

[Tedly]

My best cast bullet grouper is a M24/47 Mauser....load is #323481 ACWW Lee push thru sized and Hornady GC Allox lubed. 20.5gr AA5744 3.285"OAL.This out shoots ALL my iron sight rifles w/cast .Period.

[tawastom]

My best cast bullet grouper is a M24/47 Mauser....load is #323481 ACWW Lee push thru sized and Hornady GC Allox lubed. 20.5gr AA5744 3.285"OAL.This out shoots ALL my iron sight rifles w/cast .Period.

The old GEW88 (Kommision)is THE #1 reason US commercial loads are light, the action is about as strong as a Krag, the newer 98 actions fired a spitzer bullet whereas the 88 had a RN. and much less load. as far as accidents involving 30-06, the entire Mauser "family" can pretty much be included in this one. The 30-06 will mostly accept any of its smaller cousins in its chamber, the worst being the 8x57 because of bullet diameter being too large. The absolute most dangerous is the practice of novices to Military rifles shoving 8x57 into a 7.7 Japanese rifle, as the cases are almost identical, and the Arisaka works fine while chambering it.Many people assume the Germans and Japanese used the same ammunition.