Why H&G 68?

[wtfooptimax200]

Obviously the h&g 68 is wildly successful, but my question is why? Why is it so popular? Is it something that has been superseded by better designs and only hangs on by tradition or is it really the best?

Branden

[dragon813gt]

If it ain't broke don't fix it ;)
It flat out works across a wide range of firearms and is accurate to boot.

[Outpost75]

I think the main reason H&G68 is so popular is because it will feed in any .45 which reliably feeds hardball, even Thompsons and M3 SMGs. Few other. 45 SWCs are as forgiving.

[felix]

Light for the caliber to make recoil tolerable for a 3 relay match and to hold "alibis" to a minimum for any auto gun the boolit is shot in. None better to date. ... felix

[MtGun44]

+1, it will feed in most guns that will feed ball ( with a few notable exceptions) and
is a bit lighter and flies VERY straight. Been tested by the billions, literally.

The notable exceptions are pure stock military barrels in 1911s and I have seen
a Thompson SMG that would jam with it, too. Any commercial 1911 made in the
last 20-30 years that I have seen has the throating to feed it.

Set to LOA of 1.250-1.260 and taper crimp as a separate operation to .465 to .470
and you will be set in most 1911s. Some of the very tight chambers out there
now will require the shorter LOA. The older commerial Colts 70 Series will run with
1.260.

Bill

[John Boy]

Crimp so the case OD is 471 and the COL is 1.242 - it will shoot until the cow's come home! [smilie=w:
And the mold to use is the Accurate. The bullet bases are so sharp, one can shave with them. I got the 2x cavivity - 5x cavity coming

[Dframe]

The only boolit I've ever found better is the H&G #78.
As the others have said "If it ain't broke, don't fix it."

[tomme boy]

That and the 45acp. was designed for a 200 gr bullet. The military made them use a 230 gr bullet.

The only gun I have found to not like this design is a first generation XD45. The new one have been modified to be able to shoot cast better.

[mpmarty]

Accurate, reliable and cuts nice round holes.

[DeanWinchester]

They don't feed worth a hoot in my Taurus. It will feed any jacketed load I've ever tried and will feed a Lyman 452374, lee 230g round nose and a 200g rn that was meant for cap and ball that I lapped open.
It refuses to feed the H&G 68. I sent the last of them to a good friend who will put them to good use.
....bummer.

[Cherokee]

They don't feed worth a hoot in my Taurus. It will feed any jacketed load I've ever tried and will feed a Lyman 452374, lee 230g round nose and a 200g rn that was meant for cap and ball that I lapped open.
It refuses to feed the H&G 68. I sent the last of them to a good friend who will put them to good use.
....bummer.

What Taurus ? I have a 24/7 OSS 5" that would not feed them reliably. I rounded off the sharp edges of the chamber mouth to the left and right of the feed ramp. Works 100% now.

[chboats]

For some reason my series 70 Colt does not like the H&G 68. It has feed problems. Every other 1911 I have shot loved them. But for me it is not a problem because my series 70 loves any of the short nose SWCs such as the H&G 130 or the Lyman 452460. Go figure.

Carl

[DeanWinchester]

what taurus ? I have a 24/7 oss 5" that would not feed them reliably. I rounded off the sharp edges of the chamber mouth to the left and right of the feed ramp. Works 100% now.

pt145

[Dutchman]

S&W 2nd Model Hand Ejector, Brazilian Navy Modelo 1937

http://images109.fotki.com/v786/photos/4/28344/9895637/DSCF3939sw-vi.jpg

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_picture_is_worth_a_thousand_words

http://images52.fotki.com/v642/photos/2/28344/1676633/rrr10-vi.jpg

http://images46.fotki.com/v319/photos/2/28344/1676633/rrr02-vi.jpg

http://images51.fotki.com/v748/photos/2/28344/1676633/rrr03-vi.jpg
HG68
http://images59.fotki.com/v1579/photos/2/28344/1676633/rrr11-vi.jpg

http://images46.fotki.com/v274/photos/4/28344/9895637/nuswb10-vi.jpg

[MtGun44]

If the H&G 68 won't feed, it is often sharp edges on the right and left edges of the
rear of the chamber. This is the issue with a military 1911, it has only a small
central groove of a feed ramp, the sides of the chamber are dead square. If you
slightly chamfer the sides and blend the bottom feed ramp upwards and polish
this area, it will usually feed. Start with minimal 'throating', doesn't usually need much.

The XD problem was actually an extraction problem. The XD dragged the extracted
case HARD over the nose of the top round in the mag, and the shoulder on the
SWCs would bump the extracted case off the extractor before it got to the ejector,
leaving it laying there in the port, causing a jam. The new XDs have a bump on the
bottom of the slide that depresses the top round in the mag so the extracted case
clears the corner of a SWC, so the problem is solved. Silly Europeans never saw
anthing but ball ammo.

Bill

[Shiloh]

Love my H&G 68 clone.

SHiloh

[smithgar3840]

OK guys, I need a 2 or more cavity aluminum mold clone of the H&G 68. Where can I get one?

[MT Gianni]

One may as well ask why Bullseye or Unique? If it works well leave it alone.

[DonH]

Crimp so the case OD is 471 and the COL is 1.242 - it will shoot until the cow's come home! [smilie=w:
And the mold to use is the Accurate. The bullet bases are so sharp, one can shave with them. I got the 2x cavivity - 5x cavity coming

Haven't used an Accurate mold but since I have a 4 cavity H&G for the 68, I can't imagine why I would need anything else. Easiest mold to make good boolits with I have ever used.

[captaint]

I have a 2 cav H&G 68 mold. I use it once in a while. I have some very good clone molds of that boolit that get most of the use. If I could only have one boolit for my 45's - that'd be it.!! Mike

[bgreed]

How about hollow pointing the H&G 68?

[gefiltephish]

OK guys, I need a 2 or more cavity aluminum mold clone of the H&G 68. Where can I get one?
Accurate Molds (http://accuratemolds.com/bullet_detail.php?bullet=45-200H-D.png) You can get it in up to 5 cav aluminum, or 4 cav brass and probably cast iron. I have the 5 cav aluminum and find that it casts perfectly for me. Shoots great from my RIA FS and CS.

[wtfooptimax200]

Thanks for the great info guys...as usual you've cost me more money....time to buy a new mold

[Longone]

With the #68 being so popular I wonder why it's not in the NOE line up? There are so many "go to" molds in their line up it would seem to be a good fit. Just my 2 cents.

Longone

[Brenden]

With the #68 being so popular I wonder why it's not in the NOE line up? There are so many "go to" molds in their line up it would seem to be a good fit. Just my 2 cents.

Longone


Probably because Ballisti Cast owns the rights to H&G moulds, everyone else says theirs are just similar.

[Maximumbob54]

I know the Mihec 200gr version that with the HP pins casts a 185gr and either way it shoots better than I can aim them.

[Longone]

Similar would be OK for me. I have a Miha brass mold and like Maximumbob says they shoot very good. The only thing about the brass is the weight, after carpal surgery on both hands they still fatigue pretty quickly, I think an aluminum mold would keep me casting for a bit longer.

Longone

[Char-Gar]

In 1939 G.A. Hensley sent the American Rifleman a mold for testing and F.C. Ness wrote it up in June of 1940 and determined it was as accurate at 50 yards as any bullet he had fired. Thus the Hensley and Gibbs #68 was off an running as the bullet to beat in the Bullseye shooting game. It also feed very well in a wide variety of handguns.

The Hensley and Gibbs #78 entered the scene after WWII and was the brain child of Ed Rowland. He wanted a bullet with a longer bearing surface, two grease grooves and a blunter nose than the #68. The Lyman version is 452460. It also weights in at 10 to 15 grains more than #68 when case of the same alloy.

These two bullets have been competitors in the accuracy circuit for generations and they are both very good bullets. I don't believe one is any better than the other, as they have both proven their worth.

So the question is what is so special about #68? Because it has been doing job the for 73 years and while others may be it's equal (452460) nothing has come on the scene that is clearly better. It still remains "King of the Hill" today and everybody that wants to sell molds for the 45ACP round makes clones.

Either of these bullets (#68 and 452460) are very accurate and don't loose accuracy when the velocity is goosed up to 850 fps or thereabouts. They make excellent all around bullets for the 1911 pistol.

The 45 ACP round in a 1911 pistol has been on the job for over a hundred years now and has done everything it has been asked to with without trying to figure how to make cast hollow points that will expand and shoot well. Thusly I don't see any purpose in the quest.

[W.R.Buchanan]

Well,,,, I just read the answer to this question in the last few days.

The answer was with regard to .44's and how some SWC's are just more accurate IE: original 429421 Keith. The reason why these are generally more accurate than other similar SWC's is due to the fore and aft balance of the boolit design.

Apparently Keith knew about this and got it right, and others have only copied closely, resulting in various levels of accuracy.

H&G #68 is a similar story, however the only reason I say this is based on the earlier statement. However if you think about it, it makes perfect sense. The boolit design is just in perfect balance.

When a boolit is spinning it's trajectory is affected by gravity and windage. Windage is not a constant and may or may not be present.

However Gravity is present and thus the balance of the boolit fore and aft will affect its flight. Ideally during the flight of the boolit the centerline of the boolit and the line of trajectory would be the same.

The only way this can occur is if the bullet has neutral balance fore and aft. Plus if one end of the boolit is heavier than the other the boolit would tend to spin in two separate diameter circles. IE; the front end of the boolit would trace one dia. circle, with respect to the centerline, and the rear would trace a different dia. and in the opposite direction or 180 out of phase with the front. This would cause the boolit to fly in a "spiral" path.

Many here have seen this same phenomenon in long range shooting where a "bullets centerline" follows it's original line of travel past the midpoint of the flight, instead of following the line of trajectory all the way to the end. This results in Keyholing downrange when the spin tapers off. However if the bullet/boolit is in balance it will follow the trajectory even after the spin slows down.

Obvously this is all contingent on perfectly made bullets and boolits. This is all about the design and not manufacture.

I think I explained this right?

Randy

[MtGun44]

Sounds good except for the part where "the spin tapers off". I don't
believe that actually happens to any significant degree.

Hatcher's Notebook reports that when they shot .30-06 straight up and they
went all the way up and fell all the way down, they stayed point up and were
spinning furiously when they hit. I don't think much spin is lost during the flight
of the boolit/bullet. I do believe there is a aerodymanic center of pressure and
a center of gravity, and getting the two "correctly located" is certainly important.
I'm not sure what the term "correctly located" means, but there are folks
that DO know. Personally, I test out designs and if they work consistently,
I stick with them and recommend them. Often, I learned which designs to use
from other folks that went before - like Elmer or many of the folks on here,
that are actually doing it and have the results.

Bill

[Char-Gar]

[QUOTE Personally, I test out designs and if they work consistently,
I stick with them and recommend them. Often, I learned which designs to use
from other folks that went before - like Elmer or many of the folks on here,
that are actually doing it and have the results. "
Bill[/QUOTE]

Yep that is about where I am at. I am not to concerned about the "why", just the "how".

I remember when radar was fairly new as a law enforcement tool for traffic enforcement. I saw a lawyer with a Texas Department of Safety Trooper on the witness stand trying to cross examine him on how radar works. The Trooper was not about to get all twisted up in the science, so he just said.."Sir, we are taught how to work it, not how it works.".

Makes sense to me!

[LAH]

The flat base version by Accurate.

http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h244/Creekerpics/Loading%20Room%20101/Bullets/Accurate%2045-200-H/DSC05026.jpg (http://s66.photobucket.com/user/Creekerpics/media/Loading%20Room%20101/Bullets/Accurate%2045-200-H/DSC05026.jpg.html)

[MtGun44]

That's a beauty, and sized and lubed properly it will shoot very well indeed.

Bill

[novalty]

Mihec has the H&G #68 copy (brass 4 cavity) In-stock right on his website (http://www.mp-molds.com/shopping/pgm-more_information.php?id=45&=SID). That's how I ordered mine.

[bones37]

Well that is a good looking boolit. I am going to order that from Accurate for sure. I had been un-decided as to which vendor to get it from, but that pic pretty much made up my mind.
The flat base version by Accurate.

http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h244/Creekerpics/Loading%20Room%20101/Bullets/Accurate%2045-200-H/DSC05026.jpg (http://s66.photobucket.com/user/Creekerpics/media/Loading%20Room%20101/Bullets/Accurate%2045-200-H/DSC05026.jpg.html)

[oscarflytyer]

I have the MiHec clone. Love it. Shoots the best groups of anything I shoot.

My Thompson 1911A1 will shoot it at COAL of 1.250". Son's Remington R1, my Ruger BH cylinder and new XDs all require it COAL of 1.225". Interestingly, I heard XDs wouldn't/shouldn't shoot lead. BS - mine sure does. I put it in front of 5.0 gr Bullseye, and have a mix of every case headstamp under the Sun. Guns could care less...

[LAH]

Bones look for the 45-200H

http://www.accuratemolds.com/bullet_detail.php?bullet=45-200H-D.png

[ffries61]

OK guys, I need a 2 or more cavity aluminum mold clone of the H&G 68. Where can I get one?

I got mine from Tom at Accurate molds, aluminium 5 banger, awesome mold, got it to me in about 10-11 days.

Fred

[John Boy]

I need a 2 or more cavity aluminum mold clone of the H&G 68. Where can I get one? ... Accurate Molds - http://www.accuratemolds.com/bullet_detail.php?bullet=45-200H-D.png

[KCSO]

Most of all Jeff Cooper pushed it for years!

[pmeisel]

I don't cast but am happy to find some commercial casters using this design

[luis7]

Hi.
I have a HG #275 for 9mm (swc 125 gn .357 sized), It´s a HG # 68 clone and it´s the most accurate mold that i have (i have 6 9mm molds) for precision shoot.
I have a sw 952-1. 5"
Greetings.

[LAH]

Hi.
I have a HG #275 for 9mm (swc 125 gn .357 sized), It´s a HG # 68 clone and it´s the most accurate mold that i have (i have 6 9mm molds) for precision shoot.
I have a sw 952-1. 5"
Greetings.

Can we have a picture of that bullet?

[novalty]

Can we have a picture of that bullet?

Here is a picture that I found of the HG 275 mold.
http://hgmould.gunloads.com/molds/275.jpg

The HG 309 mold has me intrigued.
http://hgmould.gunloads.com/molds/309_1.jpg

[ACrowe25]

I should add the reason why I use it, was because it was the first 45 mold I purchased. Worked... So why buy anything else?

Only thing I would change would add more cavities than my already 2.

[LAH]

Thanks for the picture. Like you that 309 is beautiful.

[MaryB]

Just got the 2 cavity Lee version in today, after stoning the sprue plate flat and giving the rest a toothpaste workover it is ready to cast.

[casterofboolits]

I have both the H&G #275 and #309 in six cavity molds. The #275 sized 357/358 works great in HPs, Tanfoglios, S&W and XDs. The #309 is great for standard Glock barrels! Both drop exactly 125 grains with my alloy.

The #68 is supposed to hit the feed ramp at the same angle as hard ball. If you have your COL correct, it will feed in anything. Even a Riesing Mod. 50!

[NoZombies]

The #68 is supposed to hit the feed ramp at the same angle as hard ball. If you have your COL correct, it will feed in anything. Even a Riesing Mod. 50!

It sure does. I can attest that it will feed in any of my guns, including the reising 50.

[MtGun44]

Lee 38-105 SWC looks like a mini H&G 68 clone for 9mms. Works great, too.

Bill

[Finster101]

Lee 38-105 SWC looks like a mini H&G 68 clone for 9mms. Works great, too.

Bill

Bill, the frustrating part of the 358-105 in the 9mm is that nobody provides any data for it. Several guys including me have worked out their own loading but the only published data I have found has been for .38 and .357. You would think with all the threads on it here that a light bulb might go off for someone at Lee to market for 9mm as well. Great boolit!