Schmidt-Rubin

[Battis]

I'm looking at a Schmidt-Rubin that has a date listed by the seller as 1896. It shoots 7.5X55 rounds (again, as listed by the seller). I've handled the rifle and it's in pretty good shape, great bore, all matching numbers. I have a week to decide so I'll research more on this particular rifle (serial number, etc). The price seems low - $175.00.
Anyways, if it is what the store says it is and fires the 7.5X55 rounds, what kind of shooters are these rifles? Can they handle modern ammo? I have a Swiss Vetterli .41 and a Mosin Nagant - how does it compare to the Mosin?
How is reloading for that round (I'm new to reloading).
Any opinions would be appreciated.

[madsenshooter]

If it is what is known as the model 96 or 96/11 it can handle modern ammo. If it's the model 1889, it requires lower pressure ammo. The round for the model 96 would be pretty much equal to the Mosin round. The round for the 1889 is more like a 30-40 Krag round with a maximum pressure of 40,000cup. Make sure which rifle you have there. Price is good as compared to here: http://www.simpsonltd.com/index.php?cPath=350_351_379 Dies, shellholders and brass trimmers are available from Lee. Here's a good place to learn more about the the rifles, manufacture dates, different models, etc: http://www.swissrifles.com/

[Dutchman]

I'm looking at a Schmidt-Rubin that has a date listed by the seller as 1896. It shoots 7.5X55 rounds (again, as listed by the seller). I've handled the rifle and it's in pretty good shape, great bore, all matching numbers. I have a week to decide so I'll research more on this particular rifle (serial number, etc). The price seems low - $175.00.
Anyways, if it is what the store says it is and fires the 7.5X55 rounds, what kind of shooters are these rifles? Can they handle modern ammo? I have a Swiss Vetterli .41 and a Mosin Nagant - how does it compare to the Mosin?
How is reloading for that round (I'm new to reloading).
Any opinions would be appreciated.

This is a 1896/11 Schmidt-Rubin 7.5x55mm. It's one of the world's great military bolt action rifles... straight pull bolt action rifle. It's fast and very accurate. With Norma 200 gr Diamond Line match ammo it'll shoot very close to MOA all day long. These have a free floating barrel. They were built by riflemen.

$175 would be a steal for one if this is the same model. I paid $140 for mine 15 yrs ago.

http://images58.fotki.com/v132/photos/2/28344/157842/yr24-vi.jpg

[Battis]

It has the pistol grip that I thought was a repair (I read up on it on the Swiss rifle site).
The Vetterli was the last rifle I bought and I like it so much, I figured I didn't need another rifle. Then I was walking down the aisle of the store, with dozens and dozens of rifles lined up on both sides, and that Schmidt-Rubin jumped out at me. Unusual looking gun. Another customer saw me handling it and he got a little excited and told me what he knew about it. Anyways, I put it on hold and I have a week to decide. It has the muzzle cover but no sling. There's some old brown oil on the bolt, and the action is tight but it should clean up well. The bore is really good. The wood is aged but no cracks, splits, etc.
Thanks for the replies.

[Janoosh]

If the firearm has the added pistol grip, it is usually a 96/11. I have both, a 1911, and a 96/11. The 96/11 is by far the more accurate of the two.

[Battis]

Do you reload?

[Kraschenbirn]

My SR 96/11 looks just about like the Dutchman's...except, maybe, a few more dings in the wood and shoots as well or better than my K-31 (depending upon what kind of day I'm having).

In my experience, reloading is pretty straightforward except that you'll need acquire some 'real' 7.5x55 brass (Privi or Norma) rather than using reformed .284 Win. as is common practice for K-31s. There's about .020" difference in rim dia. between 7.5x55 and .284 and, quite often, the 96/11 extractor will fail to hold on the smaller rim of a .284 case...leaving the empty to be knocked out with a cleaning rod.

Bill

[Battis]

Other than the extraction problems, the reformed .284 will work? I use the Lee dies for the .41 Vetterli, which is basically the only reloading I've done (other than 50-70 black powder). What about the primers?
From what I've seen the 7.5X55 ammo runs about $1.00 per round with shipping.

[Kraschenbirn]

Other than the extraction problems, the reformed .284 will work?...What about the primers?...

Other than slightly undersize rims, .284 Win. works just fine for forming 7.5x55. I've been using it in my K-31 for several years with near perfect function. Good accuracy in both the K-31 and the 96/11. As mentioned earlier, though, the undersize rims can be a PITA in the 96/11 but Graf's usually has Privi 7.5x55 (Boxer primed) in stock for about the same price as .284 Win. So far as primers, I use either W-W or Federal LRs pretty much interchangeably in both guns.

Bill

[NuJudge]

The 1896 can not take modern ammo. The modified 96/11 can take modern ammo. The most visible difference is usually the addition of the pistol grip. The SwissRifles website has numerous resources and lots of discussions on them. The lowest sight setting on it should be 300 meters, so it will shoot way high at shorter ranges, until you install a taller front sight.

[Battis]

I went back to the store to determine which model it is (I haven't bought it yet). It has the grafted pistol grip, 6 shot detachable mag, the lugs on the bolt are halfway down its length...I'm pretty sure it's a 96/11. The serial number (if that makes a difference) is 271528. What else should I look for? It's quacking and walking like a duck, so...
The wood is old but not chipped or cracked. There is some surface rust on the blue that doesn't bother me too much. There is some surface rust on half the bolt - it looks like some junk dried and caused it. It should clean up well. The bore is mint.

[madsenshooter]

Sounds like it's just what you wanted. The inexpensive Lee dies will work fine with it, GP11 will work fine, or any other factory ammo for that matter.

I think this is the best website: http://www.swissriflewebsite.com/index.asp

[Battis]

I posted a question on that site, too, and did a comparison check with their info page. It looks like the grafted pistol grip is a good determining factor.
When I was looking it over at the store, the salesman went to the Swiss Rifles site for info - he wasn't sure either.

[madsenshooter]

That's the kind of sales people I like, the one's that don't really know what they have. Got a nice Danish Krag once, real cheap.

[zuke]

Look where the locking lug's are. If at the rear of the "collar" it's an older rifle that can't use modern ammo. Also the older one use's a 12 rd mag that hang's about 2 1/2-3 inch's below the stock.

[Battis]

The lugs are halfway down the bolt. The mag holds 6 rounds. Also, on the Swiss Rifles forum, I was told to check the rifling: a 3 groove barrel won't handle the modern ammo, but a 4 groove will.

[zuke]

Sound's like a 96 or a 96/11

[Bob S]

By serial number, the rifle was manufactured as a 1889/96 in 1901; rebuilt as a 96/11 sometime between 1912 and 1920 (inpossible to determine the "conversion" date precisely). During the conversion, most rifles had a pistol grip grafted into the original stock; if the stock needed replacement (due to bad condition) at the time of conversion, a new stock was fitted that had the pistol grip included and the 1911 flat buttplate. This was not a 1911 stock, however, as a 96/11 will not fit in a 1911 stock. The mortice for the magazine well in 1889, 89/96, and 96/11 stocks is deeper, to match the depth of the magazine well in the 96/11 receiver. "New" 96/11 stocks are pretty rare.

These things shoot quite well right out of the gate, no tinkering required.

BTW, in many, many thousands of rounds fired in a couple of dozen Swiss rifles, using reformed 284 Winchester cases, I have never had a failure to extract or eject.

Resp'y,
Bob S.

[Battis]

Thanks for the info. I actually picked the rifle up today.
I'd like to reload but I've only reloaded black powder cartridges: 50-70 and the Vetterli .41 (formed from .348 Winchester brass). It's time to step up in time and load with smokeless.
The Vetterli is picky as far as cartridge length (to use the mag, they have to be 2.2" in total length). Are the Schmidt Rubins like that in any way? What do you use for bullets?

[burt]

you can have a lot of fun and improve your offhand shooting with cast lead bullets.... 150/165 gr.
several commercial sources... the 284 reform to 7.5 Swiss will work fine... any primers work ok...very easy to load.... keep pressures low...you and ol'SR don't need the blast!
look up loads for Unique and Blue Dot....
clean up the trigger pull with some EP grease.

a marvelous thing to shoot *****AND CLEAN*****

[MtGun44]

Don't know about now, but a few years ago the Grafs brass was easy to get and I have used it for
match shooting with great success.

Bill

[madsenshooter]

PRVI is in stock at Graf's today, 7/8/13. Same as the Graf's that Bill mentioned, Graf's just had PRVI headstamp some for them at one point. Got some of both, and they shoot the same.

[Battis]

I live in MA and some companies - Midway, Cabelas - will not ship plain, new brass here. They claim it's because of state law but I checked and its perfectly legal - it's just a company policy. I hope Graf will ship it.
Rookie question- what about checking the headspace? I've only reloaded the rimmed cartridges for the Vetterli and 50-70, and headspace still has me a little puzzled.

[Dutchman]

headspace still has me a little puzzled.


http://www.cruffler.com/trivia-October99.html

[Battis]

Thanks.
So, does everyone measure headspace...
1. often
2. sometimes.
3. never

[madsenshooter]

If the serial #s on the receiver and bolt match, I wouldn't fret over it.

[Dutchman]

If the serial #s on the receiver and bolt match, I wouldn't fret over it.

This.

[Battis]

All the numbers match.
Any opinions on this ammo?
http://www.ammunitiontogo.com/product_info.php/pName/60rds-75-swiss-military-gp11-174gr-spitzer-fmjbt-match-ammo/cName/rifle-ammo-75x55-swiss

[madsenshooter]

Only problem with it is the berdan primers, which can be reloaded, but not as easily as boxer primed cases. It is GP11, which is what the rifle is made for. Price is about normal for it. You can get a bit cheaper buying larger quantities, like here: http://www.samcoglobal.com/Ammo-75-swiss.html Berdan primers have been hard to come by, other than that I know little about reloading them. The PRVI brass from Grafs takes US standard large rifle primers, if you can find any anywhere.

[uscra112]

There's a sticky on the forum here about converting Berdan cases to take a small rifle primer. I've got plenty of boxer-primed brass, but out of curiosity I tried it on some fired GP-11 cases, and by golly it works! It's easiest if you have a lathe, but it can be done on a drill press.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?143958-Converting-Berdan-primer-pockets-to-Boxer

[Battis]

Samco Global looks good except for that little "will not ship to MA". The local FFL is looking for 7.5X55 ammo, and I could ship it there. Might add to the per round charge but Samco is low to begin with.
I was thinking about reloading at some point so I could use a smaller bullet, and smaller powder charge, for less recoil (back surgery next month).
I'd never heard of Berdan primers until I started looking around for ammo.

[TreeKiller]

Berdan primers here.

http://www.dagammo.com/shop/non-corrosive-berdan-primer-c-7/kv762n-large-rifle-berdan-primers-5000-primers-p-47.html?zenid=6c1cb50704a39bda45cb2cb8c6bc2c64

KV-762N Large Rifle Berdan Primers (5000 Primers)
$209.00

Price is for a Case of Primers (5000 Primers per Case)

KV762N is the Nato (.217") size and correct Cup height for all .217" Berdan Pocket cases of "European Military Rifle" calibers (7.9mm, 7mm, 7.65mm, 8mm Steyr, Euro .30/06, Euro .303 Br., 7.62R Albania, Czech, etc. 7.5MAS, 7.5 Swiss, 6.5 Swede, 7.62 Nato.)

[Battis]

The store where I buy my "stuff" actually has several boxes of old Berdan primers but they were for shot shells.
They also have old ammo that people turn in or trade, and I found several boxes of 6.55x55. Think I can make it fit? Just kidding.
I priced out the .308 bullets, brass (Graf, Midway, Cabelas, will not ship brass to me in MA, but will ship to an FFL), powder, scale, primers, and decided just to buy some loaded ammo from AmmoToGo (they'll ship ammo to me, no problem). http://www.ammunitiontogo.com/index.php/cName/rifle-ammo-75x55-swiss
I read the sticky on converting Berdan cases to take regular primers - I have lots of Mosin Nagant cases laying around to practice on. Maybe I can convert the AmmoToGo cases.

Schmidt Rubin & Vetterli

http://i105.photobucket.com/albums/m217/pohill/DSCF4461_zpsb3078479.jpg (http://s105.photobucket.com/user/pohill/media/DSCF4461_zpsb3078479.jpg.html)

[Battis]

I bought the gun in Maine, I have surplus ammo coming from Texas, I found some PRVI ammo in NH, and went shooting in NH. Great gun. Shoots like a Mosin Nagant - the recoil isn't bad at all (heavy gun). Not as loud as the Mosin. Very accurate. Reloading would be the way to go in the long run (the PRVI uses boxer primers).