Is this leading?

[NicholasDM]

Hi there everybody, I've been a lurker for a while and just this past weekend got enough things together to try casting my own boolits. I wound up with 18 usable out of 28 that I cast. All of them shot great! Fantastic accuracy, no tumbling, clean holes. Virtually no smoke using the old NRA formula of 1 part Beeswax (toilet bowel ring; was all I could find), 1 part Paro-Wax Paraffin, 1 part generic Vaseline to pan lube them, but think I'm going to add a bit of paraffin to the mix to harden up the lube a bit more.

I've been reloading 9mm, 30-30 and 7.62x54r for about 2 years on a 4-hole Lee Turret.

Now, I've got a bit of a question about leading since there aren't so many good pictures that I can find showing what is acceptable leading/fouling and what is gross leading that one should be worried about. My understanding from all the reading that I've done is that even the perfect hard cast lead bullet with the perfect lube will still lead a little. Is that correct? What is acceptable? I've included several pictures of my barrel that hopefully someone can help me make that determination.


My mold is a TL356-124-R2 from Lee. I'm casting for 9mm, target shooting only. Boolits come out at .356 perfectly, no less. Finished weight ranged between 127.1 and 128 grains.
My lead source was West Coast Premium Magnum Shot, #8. No additions to the alloy. My understanding is that West Coast Magnum Shot is about the hardest shot you can find and lends itself well to being smelted as a lead source. I currently have no way to test finished hardness.
I used a small pot-belly cast iron dutch oven and a 1000W hotplate to melt the lead.
As previously stated, I used the old NRA formula found here in the forum to pan lube.

Loaded up in once-fired Win cases with about 3.5gn of Ramshot Zip, Federal 100 primers. 1.109 OAL. Taper-crimped. Shot through a Sigma 9VE.

Like I said, they shot great and were perhaps even more accurate than factory loads or my usual loads using X-Treme 124 grain PRN bullets. I'm very happy with the shooting results and the general function and feel of these rounds. And it's just darn cool to see your own hand-cast boolits sitting there ready for shooting. :D

After 18 rounds, the following is what my barrel looks like. I'm sorry for the poor pictures; it's very hard to get a silver-coloured symptom on a silver-coloured barrel.

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0Bw1mkiTSlS-WSWExbDhrQ3NFOW8/edit?usp=sharing
https://docs.google.com/file/d/0Bw1mkiTSlS-Wbk94VVJNWUJqRVk/edit?usp=sharing
https://docs.google.com/file/d/0Bw1mkiTSlS-WZHlVSTZzemNIdEE/edit?usp=sharing
https://docs.google.com/file/d/0Bw1mkiTSlS-WbDFnUmFFLVo5cVU/edit?usp=sharing
https://docs.google.com/file/d/0Bw1mkiTSlS-WeS1OUzU3cTJtVEU/edit?usp=sharing


Rejected bullet used for seating depth and crimp testing only. You can even see the little ding from the feed ramp on the nose.
https://docs.google.com/file/d/0Bw1mkiTSlS-WXzJEX1d5U0x1bHM/edit?usp=sharing

I would appreciate anybody who could help me out. Thank you in advance!

[runfiverun]

that's leading.
up the b-wax not the paraffin.

[ku4hx]

I'm going to assume what you see wasn't there before you shot the cast boolits. That being the case, once you swab out the bore with a patch dampened with solvent and then a dry one, what's left is metal fouling. And since you were shooting cast, that would indicate leading.

[Sasquatch-1]

I use a very tight fitting patch when cleaning. I literally have to drive it into the barrel (done very carefully). This will push out some of the lead if it is there. I also have used the copper Chore Boy method. I can actually feel the lead while using this method. Try the tight patch method and see if any slivers of lead come out on the patch. As has been mentioned in the past, If you use the Chore Boy method make sure you get the real copper pads and not copper plated.

[NicholasDM]

The Beeswax is gummy though. Wouldn't that make it more tacky, or would is the goal to help with the lubrication and just to deal with the tackiness?

[BCRider]

The Beeswax is gummy though. Wouldn't that make it more tacky, or would is the goal to help with the lubrication and just to deal with the tackiness?

You're looking at it the wrong way. It's not the gumminess of the lube which will make the lead stick but the issue of pressure galling that let's the lead stick to the raw steel of the bore. The function of the lube is to form a waxy/greasy coating to aid in preventing direct lead to steel contact. So waxy/tacky/gummy are all GOOD things.

It's not always as cut and dry as you may think either. If you've lurked around Cast Boolits for some time you'll know that leading can come from a wide variety of issues. Boolit fit to bore size being a primary issue. Bullet hardness being associated and just a half step down in importance.

[NicholasDM]

It was a clean barrel to start. I ran a hoppes patch through and clean patch, there actually wasn't much left. I ran a bore brush through a couple of times and then swabbed it again and all that I got out was the usual dark carbon looking gunk, with one tiny <1mm wafer thin piece of lead. Upon inspection now, there are two tiny ridges of what can only be lead along a couple of the lands.

What is acceptable leading and what is not? Would sending a jacketed round or two through help clean?

[NicholasDM]

You're looking at it the wrong way. It's not the gumminess of the lube which will make the lead stick but the issue of pressure galling that let's the lead stick to the raw steel of the bore. The function of the lube is to form a waxy/greasy coating to aid in preventing direct lead to steel contact. So waxy/tacky/gummy are all GOOD things.

It's not always as cut and dry as you may think either. If you've lurked around Cast Boolits for some time you'll know that leading can come from a wide variety of issues. Boolit fit to bore size being a primary issue. Bullet hardness being associated and just a half step down in importance.

Oh, I didn't mean the lube was making the lead stick to the barrel, I meant the general tackiness of the lubrication and associated mess of working with it. If that's just something I have to deal with, then it's a hurdle I can easily overcome and just mark it up as one of those things I have to deal with when reloading cast boolits.

I understand it's not always as clean and clear as it may seem. One thing I am worried about is the sizing issue, but my hope was that I wouldn't have to invest in a sizing press unless absolutely necessary. I'll cast up some more boolits and try a modified lubrication for this weekend. Try and put a magazine or three through, inspect things on the field, maybe go back to shooting plated until I can get a harder alloy.

[aspangler]

I have had excellent results with Lee liquid alox. Simply tumble lube, let dry, and load. I have never had any leading using that stuff. I have shoved 9mm to 1250fps with no leading. Alloy is pure ww. Give it as try. You can find it on EBAY for around $5.00

[Mal Content]

I would get rid of the toilet bowl ring. The stuff is nasty! It's not beeswax. It is a synthetic and its awful to handle. Real beeswax if very firm to brittle when cool and smells good. Order some from RandyRat here on this site. It will change your outlook and keep your fingers from getting sticky.:grin:

[Jim]

I would get rid of the toilet bowl ring. The stuff is nasty! It's not beeswax. It is a synthetic and its awful to handle. Real beeswax if very firm to brittle when cool and smells good. Order some from RandyRat here on this site. It will change your outlook and keep your fingers from getting sticky.:grin:

No, it's not a synthetic. It's petroleum wax, a byproduct of the oil refinery business. The grade is not consistent as it's not produced toward a product. It just so happens that it's suitable for toilet rings.

[NicholasDM]

No, it's not a synthetic. It's petroleum wax, a byproduct of the oil refinery business. The grade is not consistent as it's not produced toward a product. It just so happens that it's suitable for toilet rings.

Lesson learned. Thank you both.

[NicholasDM]

I have had excellent results with Lee liquid alox. Simply tumble lube, let dry, and load. I have never had any leading using that stuff. I have shoved 9mm to 1250fps with no leading. Alloy is pure ww. Give it as try. You can find it on EBAY for around $5.00

I understand a lot of people use Alox, but I wanted to source something local that cost less than Alox for the quantity, and have read a lot of good things about the many home brewed lubricants that have been created over the years. Perhaps not the best idea given my inexperience with cast boolits; I was a little impatient to give it a go. :)

What mold, powder and how much powder do you use?

[Mal Paso]

I would get rid of the toilet bowl ring. The stuff is nasty! It's not beeswax. It is a synthetic and its awful to handle. Real beeswax if very firm to brittle when cool and smells good. Order some from RandyRat here on this site. It will change your outlook and keep your fingers from getting sticky.:grin:

+1 for Randy Rat

Do two Mals make a Bueno?

[Gtek]

Just a thought here late in the game, straight magnum shot for approx. 1200 fps-or so? What about cutting with some pure, might lose a very small amount of diameter. I pop 25-1 out of a 28" pipe at 1400 with zero leading with real NRA. Like the story of the three bullets, one was to hard, one was to soft, and one was just right. Gtek

[canyon-ghost]

If you really want a clean bore, get yourself a set of bronze bore brushes and one set of nylon brushes. Hoppe's isn't as good on cast bullet lubes as mineral spirits paint thinner or acetone (carnuba solvent). If you get the bore really shiny clean and oiled, you'll start out better. Most of the time, I've found less lead and more black carbon buildup to be the culprit. And, yes, I've cleaned the same barrel as many as four times in a row!

Nowdays, I'm using oversized dies in the lubersizer just to lube with, not much sizing down. That helps a bit too. A new pistol with the usual machining cuts, grooves, etc. will lead more than my old one. It's sometimes A LOT more but, that's the way it goes.

[leadman]

Since you are just getting started casting go to White Label lubes and buy a product from Glen. BAC is soft as well as his Alox & beeswax formulas. His prices are very reasonable and you would be working with a known good product.
After you get your gun shooting good with no leading then experiment with lubes if you want.

[Cherokee]

I suspect your boolits are harder than you need and I would cut it some. Also, I suggest what "leadman" said, good lube stuff. It might be .356 is too small for your gun barrel and the hard boolit just makes matters worse.

[captaint]

Yeah, I got to throw in with the bigger boolit thinking here. .356 is kinda small for most 9's. Certainly for mine. I HAVE to size my 9mm's at .358, or the leading is there. At .358, the barrels stay perfectly clean. Mike

[captaint]

Yeah, I got to throw in with the bigger boolit thinking here. .356 is kinda small for most 9's. Certainly for mine. I HAVE to size my 9mm's at .358, or the leading is there. At .358, the barrels stay perfectly clean. Mike