Hornday or Dillion

[terryt]

Hi:

I am looking at getting a progressive loading. I had a Dillon that I liked and it did everything I wanted it to.

A friend of mine brought a Hornday Progressive after having a Dillon 550. He wanted to try sometime different and bought the Hornday. He says Hornday is a better and easier to use machine than the Dillon was. He did say there are more accessories for the Dillon than the Hornday.

Please let me know what you think about both of them.



Any and all information would be very muchappreciated.

Thanks,

Terryt

[TheCelt]

I have a Dillon 650 and a Hornady LNL AP and I love then both. I prefer the Dillon primer system, but enjoy the easy caliber changes in the LNL AP. I also prefer the Hornady powder system. It's really preference, they are both great presses.

[Alvarez Kelly]

Ford versus Chevy discussion...

I love my Dillon presses, but want to buy a LnL just to try one.

If you had a Dillon and it worked for you, why change?

If you can, I would recommend you load on your friends LnL and make your own decision. What is right or works best for me, may not be right, or work best for YOU.

[ReloaderFred]

I wore out a Hornady Pro-Jector press after about 400,000 rounds, and Hornady rebuilt it for shipping one way. I gave it to a friend when I got it back and bought a LnL and have loaded about 40,000 rounds on it and am very satisfied with it. I had a Dillon 550B, but sold it. It just wasn't for me.

Hope this helps.

Fred

[Hunter]

I prefer the Hornady as well. The lock n load bushings vs the tool head is what swayed me.

[dromia]

I prefer the Hornady LNL to the Dillon 650 I used to use, it just seemed easier to set up, change calibres and smoother to run. Neither had case feeder. Both produced first rate ammunition. I have had problems with Dillon customer service in the past which has put me off them a bit. Both machines do the job so really it up to the approach that you prefer. When I bought my LnL it was a lot cheaper that the Dillon 650 so an at least equal machine for less money, a no brainer really.

[imashooter2]

A progressive press is a long term investment. Are you going to be able to get parts in twenty years? The Pro-Jector rebuild mentioned above won't happen today. There aren't parts to support it. The LNL is a fine press. Maybe better than what Dillon offers... The downside is that the installed base is tiny compared to Dillon's and Hornady has a history of changing their design.

[USMC87]

I load on a 550b it is my second one and I have no issues other than the spilled spent primers on the floor which can happen. I would also recommend using a lnl before buying one and as the post above says " Hornady changes their designs" So I would want to be satisfied which ever way I went.

[r1kk1]

A progressive press is a long term investment. Are you going to be able to get parts in twenty years? The Pro-Jector rebuild mentioned above won't happen today. There aren't parts to support it. The LNL is a fine press. Maybe better than what Dillon offers... The downside is that the installed base is tiny compared to Dillon's and Hornady has a history of changing their design.

I had that experience with an Apex 3.0. No parts. I do hope the LNL is around for at least a couple of decades. My experience has been otherwise as noted with the Apex. RCBS changes things too. I miss some of their old presses.

For now I will stick the simple 550. Easy to disassemble and resemble for major cleaning.

Works for me,

r1kk1

[milprileb]

Best thread on the internet on this subject. I did not have it when I was in this LNL vs Dillon 650 decision cycle.

Its not the quality of ammo or speed thing that distinguishes either in my opinion. Its the convenience and features
that meet your personal desires. Neither machine is perfect. Look at cost of caliber conversions, Look at LNL rigid frame tool head vs
the Dillon change out tool heads which wobble, look at priming system of both, look at how many die stations the presses offer. It was a hard decision for me and cost me more for the Dillon but I don't think I got a lot more of anything for that money. I will probably put on a Hornady LNL powder measure system on my 650. I can say this, had I really known how much a PITA it was to change calibers on the 650 and swap out priming system: the LNL would be on my bench !

In my defense: guilty as charged, I own a 550 and drank the blue cool aid too seriously. I was really quite well off with the 550
and wonder why I chased rain bows and got the 650.

[tengaugetx]

I've never had anything progressive except my Dillon 550. I have no complaints. Changing calibers takes all of 5 minutes. It's two pins, a clip on the powder linkage, 1 set screw on the ram and three brass buttons. How hard can that be. I admit changing from large to small primers takes a little longer but still no big deal. I have 7 caliber conversions, 5 toolheads with stands, and 4 powder measures now. At this point all I need are the powder funnels to be able to load most of if not all of the other 10 or so calibers I reload. Like everything else the accessories to to accumulate with time.

[Kevin Rohrer]

Have you tried a search for this question? It has been asked ad nauseum on all the reloading forums, with similar results.

[Cosmiceyes]

Hi:

I am looking at getting a progressive loading. I had a Dillon that I liked and it did everything I wanted it to.

A friend of mine brought a Hornday Progressive after having a Dillon 550. He wanted to try sometime different and bought the Hornday. He says Hornday is a better and easier to use machine than the Dillon was. He did say there are more accessories for the Dillon than the Hornday.

Please let me know what you think about both of them.



Any and all information would be very muchappreciated.

Thanks,

Terryt

It all depends on how big of a hurry you are in? I have so many calibers set up on my Dillon tool heads,and stands.My Rl550-B took me out of the RCBS Rock Chucker world,and I never looked back. All I can really say about Hornady is"What took them so long?"

[dudel]

I had a Hornady projector, and now have a Dillon 550b. Customer support is great on both, both produce good ammo.

I prefer Hornady dies. I like that Hornady put the primer system in the back, I feel that's safer (although I never had any problems with the Dillon primer feed). I find the Dillon primer shuttle feed to be more reliable. I prefer the Dillon powder measure for the powders I use (2400, Varget, Bulleye, Unique, Power Pistol). Different powder measure perform differently with different powders. I like the Hornady coil spring around the shell plate vs the Dillon pins. The Hornady was not as smooth in operation as the Dillon. I find I'm faster on the Dillon.

All said, I prefer the Dillon.

[Lloyd Smale]

I have both and personaly would take a dillon any day of the week.

[btroj]

Ever wonder why all progressives are measured against Dillon?

Have been using my 550 for about 18 years, no problems. Wouldn't change for anything.

[Dan Cash]

Have a 550 since 1985. Have 2 550s since 1990. I have several times the money now that I had in 1990 and have no intention of changing presses. I do use a Redding T7 dedicated to black powder .45-70 and a pair of Co-Ax presses that do short runs (20 to 50) of seldom used calibers but the 550s run about a dozen different calibers.

I do not particularly enjoy reloading and enjoy press setup even less. Tinkering with something that does not work and "tweaking" it so it performs as it is supposed to is not my thing. I paid for the machine and expect it to function. One would not buy a new car then over haul it so that it would sustain interstate highway speeds or have adequate brakes to handle multiple intersection stops. Same with a press.

[Lloyd Smale]

aint it the truth. All progressives are compared to dillon and about any scope argument that starts seems to be a comparison to leupold. Doesnt take a rocket scientist to read between the lines.
Ever wonder why all progressives are measured against Dillon?

Have been using my 550 for about 18 years, no problems. Wouldn't change for anything.

[Clemsum]

My first progressive press was a LNL-AP that I bought new and over a 2 year period I could never get the timing right and spent a lot of time tinkering with the primer feed. Eventually sent it back to Hornady after several calls to their support line and when I got it back I could tell no difference. Along the way I bought a Dillon 550 frame with several parts missing. Cleaned it up and ordered the missing parts including the priming system and put a Lee Auto Disk Powder Measure on it (I already had the measure).
I sold the LNL after I got it back from Hornady and have not looked back since. The 550 has been "bullet proof" and although I miss the auto index feature I would not go back to the LNL.

[blikseme300]

Different strokes for different folks. I own and use Dillon, Lee and Hornady progressive presses and can't choose one brand only to the exclusion of others. Each has it's strength and weaknesses depending what you are using it for. My opinion is that for bullet proof pistol reloading nothing beats a Dillon SDB. When rifle reloading is done with CB's then Hornady is king because of the flexibility of tool stations and the smooth half cycle feeding. The Lee units are used for brass preparation only and can be used for OK pistol reloading if needed.

OK, that was my 2c.

[gcollins]

Well, to start off: I need to eat a little crow, I have owned Dillons since 85
without any problems! Here a while back I took a RL550 in on trade, at the that time I didn't have a place on my bench for it! About 6 months ago my best friend was over shooting the Bull and I ask him if he wanted to buy my RL450 and he jumped right on it (sold it to him cheap) the Old machine didn't owe me a dime!! The only bad thing was he didn't take it that day because he didn't have his new bench made! The 450 was set up for 9mm so I thought that I might as well load some more 9mm's,as time went by every time I went to the shop I would load some 9mm's, with my Old back the way it is I might not be able to load for 30 mins. at a time, but that is what it had to be, I can't change that, but, when you get 150 at a time, if you are not getting to shoot much you can get some stock built up!!
Here a few weeks ago I decided to take the 450 off the bench and put it in a box, so I could get my other 550 mounted and going! Here is where the eating crow comes in: I always told any one that wanted to buy a Progressive press that DILLON was the only one to own!!!! As I am mounting this 550 I forgot to mention that it was took apart. I get it all together and I started checking things out, the primer slide wasn't working, and after a hour or so it was time to go to the house and lay down! So I called Dillon and explained every thing and told him that the primer slide had to be messed up, we didn't get off, on good terms, and to be honest I had taken to many pain pills to be talking to anyone! I came on here and said some things that I should not of said! I am pretty sure I emailed them the same thing!
At that time I was going to get all the dimensions and mill me one, (I am pretty hard headed, and hot headed) A day or so later when I started to measure it out, I saw a place on the bottom of the slide where I guess it got some damage when shipped, took me about 5 mins. and it worked like NEW. That very same day, I got a email from Dillon asking me what machine I had, I replied to them that the problem was on me and that I fixed it and every thing was okay. The next day I got another email from Dillon asking me for my machine model, and my mailing address, again I replied that it wasn't there fault and that it was my fault! The next day I got another email, it was almost the same as the other one except, he ask me if I was to lazy to walk to the mail box? I gave him my machine model and that I was loading 9mm.
The next day I get a shipping number from Dillon and 2 days later I had a package with 2 NEW primer Slides [smilie=w:[smilie=w: Even though all this happen and it was my fault! Dillon machine are the best, Hands Down!!
That RL450 was bought brand new and I know that it has loaded 100,000
over the years, and the only thing that had been done to it was, change the plates and buttons, powder dumps, and primer tube and cup, Not One repair or fix ever!
I don't know anything about the fancy models with every thing auto, but you buy you a New RL550b and that is the only machine you will ever need!!!
Greg

[Moonman]

People who compare the Dillon 550 to the Hornady LNL-AP are doing APPLES to ORANGES.[smilie=b:

The Hornady LNL-AP is a 5 station FULL PROGRESSIVE AUTO INDEXING,

as is the Dillon 650 Press.

The Dillon 550 press is a MANUAL INDEXING 4 STATION PRESS!

If you're going to compare or ask opinions,

Go Dillon 650 compared to Hornady LNL-AP.

Rant Off!

MOONMAN

[Lloyd Smale]

I think the 550 and lnls get compared because there the two that are about priced the same. A 650 is quite a bit more money.

[6bg6ga]

I have a Hornady LNL AP. I have used a Dillon 550B and a 650. I could have bought any of the 3. I have been happy with my choice. I have certainly done my share of tweaks and changes to the Hornady, but I've not regretted the decision once. I do not have the case feeder or the bullet feeder.

The things I prefer about the Hornady are:
1. the half station rotation of the shellplate, which just seems smoother to me;
2. the powder measure arrangement;
3. the relatively inexpensive LNL bushings vs. toolheads; and
4. both bullet and empty case are loaded on the left side of the frame so that I can use one hand for both, my right hand rarely leaves the handle.

To be fair, I have had some issues with the Hornady too, but none of them were major IMO and were easily corrected. Those issues were:
1. the LNL bushing the powder measure was in would rotate gradually during use, unlocking the bushing. A thicker o-ring solved that.
2. the plastic reservoir on the powder measure deteriorated when I left powder in it for a few days. I just replaced the reservoir with a HDPE 1000 mL jug.
3. a cartridge rim will occasionally hang on the EZ-ject nub under the shellplate. Some minor filing and polishing has greatly reduced this issue, but it still occasionally happens due to a ding or flaw in the case rim.
4. the primer shuttle needed a little polishing and aligning initially.

Dillon makes some fine machines and many will likely point you in that direction, but the Hornady has worked well for me. Any machine is going to have its quirks and will need minor tweaks and adjustments.

I concur that there are more doodads out there for the Dillon, but Inline Fabrication (http://www.inlinefabrication.com/) makes some stuff for the Hornady.

The biggest thing I failed to comprehend when I made the move to a progressive press was exactly how much more money I was going to spend on components. The money you spend on the machine pales in comparison to the cost of feeding it, but that's what's gotten me into casting and, soon, swaging.

The things I prefer about the Hornady are:
1. the half station rotation of the shellplate, which just seems smoother to me;
2. the powder measure arrangement;
3. the relatively inexpensive LNL bushings vs. toolheads; and
4. both bullet and empty case are loaded on the left side of the frame so that I can use one hand for both, my right hand rarely leaves the handle.

The station rotation seems smoother to you= Dillon has a fix for the jerky rotation on their machine and that is to trim part of the coil off the spring. Done

The lock and load bushings= More **** to purchase...I like the tool head setup with the dies ready to go in my Dillon.

Both bullet and empty case are on the left side.... Don't know about you but I have a case feeding assembly on my 650 and a bullet dropper.........I move the lever and have loaded ammo drop into the blue bin. No fuss no muss

Bottom line.....everyone that tries my Dillon XL650 ends up purchasing one. I can't say that about the Hornady lock and load. Its an ok machine and that is about all I can say.

[EddieNFL]

Have a 550, 650 and a Hornady (Projector) on the progressive side of the shop. The Hornady served me well for many years and I still use it for certain jobs. Without a casefeed, I definitely like that the bullet and case are feed from the same side; on the 650 it's a moot point. If I were looking for another progressive it would be the 550 or 650, depending on what I wanted to use it for.

Side note: Back in the '90s a friend bought (against my advice) a progressive from another well known company. He thought it was the greatest thing since the wheel...until he stopped by and tried my 650. He gave the other away and bought a 650.

[gcollins]

Sorry Folks! I meant no harm I just had my head in the wrong place like always!
G

[Moonman]

Some folks who just due simple handgun loading, say 45ACP and 9MM or 40S&W,

use a Dillon Square "D" and find it just peachy.

Some avid shooters have a Square "D" set up for 45ACP & one for 9MM.

They never change settings and just load and shoot a bunch.

Gun writer Mike Venturino has two Square "D" presses set this way and even

loads for his machine guns with them.

[jmorris]

I own at least one of each of the Dillon models and had two LNL's, pre and post EZ Ject.

The two SD's were my first two progressives and cost $130, 27 years ago. Great deal at that price but likely wouldn't buy a new one today.

I use the 550 for rounds I used to load on turret presses but started loading larger batches than I liked to load on a turret.

The 650 and 1050's make most of the ammo I shoot. 100 rounds in 5 minutes is easy once you have one setup right.

The LNL's worked, just had more quirks than the Dillon's, nothing that couldn't be over come though and dealer price was $325 on the last one with 500 .308 bullets. They certainly don't have the resale value that the Dillons have.

[zomby woof]

Loadmaster

[Alvarez Kelly]

Loadmaster

I think we were trying to have a serious discussion...

[Mayhem]

The 650 and LnL are very close in price when you add on the case feeders, the reason the Dillon is more is it comes with an auto case feeder tube that will hold and feed 10-20 cases depending on caliber and the upgrade to a complete case feed system is $110 cheaper on the Dillon making them very similar in price.

[Lloyd Smale]

I was going to argue with you on this one because when i bought my lnls there was a bigger differnce. Seems hornady has bumped there prices up about a 100 bucks. Now the differnce is less then a 100 bucks or a bit more when you factor in the free 500 bullets. One advantage to the lnl though is that it actually works fine without a case feeder. the case feeder was more of an after thought and is probably why its a bit more finiky then the dillons. The dillon on the other hand was designed right out of the box to run with a case feeder and wasnt really designed to run without one. So if i guy doesnt want to fool with a case feeder the lnl might be the better choise. Ill add that probably 75 percent of the troubles i have with lnls is case feeder related. bottom line is my free bullets are long gone and id trade my 3 lnls in a heartbeat for two 650s!!
The 650 and LnL are very close in price when you add on the case feeders, the reason the Dillon is more is it comes with an auto case feeder tube that will hold and feed 10-20 cases depending on caliber and the upgrade to a complete case feed system is $110 cheaper on the Dillon making them very similar in price.

[SteveK]

Hi:

I am looking at getting a progressive loading. I had a Dillon that I liked and it did everything I wanted it to.

A friend of mine brought a Hornday Progressive after having a Dillon 550. He wanted to try sometime different and bought the Hornday. He says Hornday is a better and easier to use machine than the Dillon was. He did say there are more accessories for the Dillon than the Hornday.

Please let me know what you think about both of them.



Any and all information would be very muchappreciated.

Thanks,

Terryt

I used an RCBS 'Special Reloader 2' for 15 years until I thought it was time to save a little reloading time in favor of more shooting time. I looked at quite a few machines (even the old Star machine) and looked at friends machines too, but when all was said an done, I bought the XL650 by Dillon. Holy guacamole what a nice machine! Like any complex mechanical device, time and care in setup is what's really important. Based upon my (limited) experience, and the sage advice of friends who own other brands, sloppy setup renders all machines persnickety bee-aches that will do nothing but fry your beans. When I work up a new load, I still use my old RCBS. When my 650 is humming, I'm a happy shooter.

[jmorris]

bottom line is my free bullets are long gone and id trade my 3 lnls in a heartbeat for two 650s!

Yeah back when I had extra LNL's and there were a thread or two around about Hornady vs Dillon (search, there is one every week or two, pretty much on every forum), I couldn't trade a NIB LNL for a used 550.

[fredj338]

The LNL is ana ok progressive. It is inferior in several ways to the Dillon 650. Wquiped the same, the LNL is only about $50 cheaper. For $50 you get a poor priming system & case feeder. The 650 would be the better way to go if you just have to have an auto indexing press with case feeder. No case feeder, they all produce about the same volume. If you must have autoindexing & no case feeder, the LNL is better than a 550B, maybe more user friendly than a 650, but with a case feeder, no contest, the 650 is hands down a better press.

[JSH]

I may have had the use of darn near every progressive made for the home shop. All of them have their glitches. I think the priming system is still what needs to be perfected on all of them. BUT I have found it is as much the primers as it is the machine. Wasn't a problem 15-20 years ago. Now one has to use what the can find.
I see a lot of folks that have never loaded a round and start with a 550. May be good may be bad. I think it is like going right from pre school to 12th grade. There are several folks around me with 550 and 650 machines. I get calls on regular basis with issues that are actually so elementary.
Everyone should own a single stage press of some kind.
I still have a square deal dillon. Only reason I kept it was all the dies I had for it. It was bought in the early 80's. It has been rebuilt 3 times. I tried to sell it but no one wanted it with all the conversions.
I started shooting a lot more rifle and bought a used 550 and 450. I used them for a while and they were fine. Then I realized a 5 station press would do me a lot better when using cast bullets. I ran onto an early Hornady projector with a bunch of accessories. No book and no idea of what parts were. Bought it brought it home and a call to Hornady and I was in business. I sold the 450. Traded the 550 for two very very slightly used projectors that looked brand new.
I run them all now. One set for large and one set for small primers and one set up for my 30-20 stuff as that is my pet.
The lnl and the tool heads are a gimmick IMHO. The 450 was the best ever made by dillon. I know guys that want nothing else.
I get less neck run out with the H than with the D. I still hand prime some. Most of my cast rifle loads use stick powders. I have yet to see a measure that will mount on a progressive I am happy with.
Pistol powders a no brainer. Use a lee and be done with it on both H and D. Two for the price of one.
As to cast
1 is decap and what ever sizing
2 is m die or bell
3 is powder
4 is seat
5 is crimp or remove bell
I can skip prime and do it be hand then slide it right over the spring on the H and go on from there. Just way more options for what I want to do and no dropping them blasted buttons and bounce across the floor.
Service
H and D service both have their merits. D to me at times seem to throw parts at you if you want to try and fix it your self. Not near as much now as in years past. Still the no bs warranty.
H depending on who you get will try to get you to fix it at your cost but with a few kind words something can usually be worked out to ones satisfaction.
Jeff

[hound_dogs_01]

I have both and would suggest either one. If its your first go with dillon they are a little more easier to set up. They make awesome products. How ever I have recently bought a hornady ammo plant and its turning out to be a fantastic machine once you work with it and get the bugs worked out.

Note: I have 4 dillon 1000's, 2 1050's, one 650, 5 550's, and the hornady ammo plant.

[fredj338]

I have both and would suggest either one. If its your first go with dillon they are a little more easier to set up. They make awesome products. How ever I have recently bought a hornady ammo plant and its turning out to be a fantastic machine once you work with it and get the bugs worked out.

Note: I have 4 dillon 1000's, 2 1050's, one 650, 5 550's, and the hornady ammo plant.

That is kinda the point. How good a machine can I be if you have to work the bugs out? My buddy is a machinist & is still tweaking his LNL to get it to run like my 650 did straight from the box. Consider the cost is almost the same, why buy something you have to tweak?
The SDB, pass. I made that decision more than 25yrs ago & bought a 550. The limiting die factor sold me on the 550. Manual indexing is not slower at all, so no drawback there.

[Maximumbob54]

At this point all I usually add to these threads is that I learned on a 550 and when I bought one I bought the LNL AP and am still beyond happy with my choice.

It always makes me laugh how much blue kool aid gets thrown around in these threads just like the Glockers talk.

[jmorris]

I'll bite. What are those?

I think the Dillon has a more reliable indexing system, case feeding system and priming system.

It's also the only one out of the two that can have a bullet feeder along with a powder check and allow you to seat and crimp in two stations.

[JSH]

I think most of the smoothness and ease of operation of the dillons is because of the built in rattle/slop in the tool head. Look at the dies dillon recommends. They have a taper to them at the mouth. The H lnl is solid and no rattle. Yes it does tack a little tweaking here and there but my end results on my groups is what I am after.
I experienced more run out than I deemed acceptable with the 550. The 450 was twice the machine IMHO.
I know a fellow that loads all his ammo on a 550 for 1000 yard stuff. I warned him and it fell on deaf ears. He would cook along pretty good then a flyer. He got a gauge a d checked run out. Out of a batch he may have a some that he culls. FYI his scores went up. Dunno if it was him the press cases or what as he refuses to go to anything else.
Another fellow that started me into reloading said run out was hog wash. He didn't like it but I proved it to him.
Bottom line is buy what pleases you for the buck.
I know guys that swear by lees stuff others that swear at them lol.
Jeff

[fredj338]

I think the Dillon has a more reliable indexing system, case feeding system and priming system.

It's also the only one out of the two that can have a bullet feeder along with a powder check and allow you to seat and crimp in two stations.

^^THIS^^
The LNL case feeder is an afterthought, not unlike the feeder for the 550B. So while it can be made to work, it rarely does w/o issues. It's also a single speed & noisy as hell. the priming system on the 650 is almost flawless. I have never had a single issue in about 10K rds now. The LNL, suspect w/o tinkering. The LNL bushings can be a huge PITA. They do come loose, happened to me, then you shear the key off. you also have to remove 4 dies to change over vs one tool head. The spring retainer at the shell plate can also cause issues as well as the auto eject. Run them side by side, LNL wants to be a 650 but alas, it never will.
BTW, Dillon doesn't need to offer a bullet feeder as the Hornady, RCBS or GSI will run on it. The LNL is a decent press, but for almost the same $$, the Dillon is just that much better.

[EddieNFL]

It always makes me laugh how much blue kool aid gets thrown around in these threads just like the Glockers talk.

Is the red koolaid sugar free?

[jmorris]

I experienced more run out than I deemed acceptable with the 550.

David Tubb loads on a 550 and has a decent record. Although he doesn't use it very progressively.



I did do some minor adjusting on the advance pawls on my LNL when I first got it, but it's worked fine since. I don't see how it can get much better than set it and forget it.

You just don't have the adjustment on the Dillons, they are just there. Sure folks cut on springs or add thrust bearings but even without any "tweaks" they always work.

I also ran into a problem on one of my LNL's where the 1/2 advance was a problem loading long rifle cases. If I placed a bullet atop of the case at the down stroke, the tip was already above the mouth of the die when it finished the index, knocking the bullet off. Again no big deal, just run the bullet up into the die and set it on the case mouth when it comes around but have never had to do that on a dillon.


What, specifically, about the priming system do you think is better?
It just works and works and works. I think it is the best priming system Not only between the 650 and LNL, I think it's the best one on any Dillon. All the rest have that dam plastic tip on the end of the primer tubes and slides.


I don't think we're comparing apples anymore. The GSI bullet feeder/seater is $500 on top of the 650's initial cost, and it isn't Dillon.

Maybe not but you just can't have the same with an LNL, if you don't ever want one it's a nonissue same as the case feed. If you think you would ever want one, the Dillon is the right choice. FWTW the last GSI feeder I bought for the 650 was $250. The last 5 for the 1050's that arrived here were $350. I make my own collators though.


As for short stroking, in the old days Dillon measures just had springs like the LNL measure, with the fail safe measures it's a lot harder to short stroke and get a double, unless you are using a 550 and don't index the shell plate.

[jmorris]

The point made by jmorris is moot if a Hornady, RCBS, or Mr. Bulletfeeder is used. Both presses are 5 station and something has to go to use one of these feeders. You are not talking about two presses at the same price point once the GSI bullet feeder is added.

It's only a moot point if you are wanting to add aftermarket parts to a press it isn't available for. Sort of like 10/22's being more popular than marlin 60's.


I'm willing to admit that the Dillon 650 is a good machine, but not that it is the "only" machine as some would have us believe

It most certainly is not the "only" machine, or I wouldn't have more presses that are not 650's than I do. Heck I only have one on my bench at this time.

Will add that the last 650 I sold for more than twice what I had in it after years of use and hundreds of thousands of rounds loaded.

Also a lot of folks will start threads saying they "only" intend to load 2000 rounds a month and want to save a few hundred bucks on a press. Then back step when they realize how much money they are going to shoot through in the first year of 24,000 rounds. The last 20,000 9mm "cheap" bullets I bought cost over $1600 not to mention everything else that goes into it.

[jmorris]

Doesn't adress the other points but I agree, it's not apples to apples because it exceeds the limits of aftermarket; however IF one were to want to add one to either, it is another point of concern.

I am one of those guys that believes in having at least one of everything, if for no other reason than just to have an informed opinion.

My opinion is worth what you paid for it, as usual free.

FWIW I didn't bash on the Lee loving thread either.

If you are happy with it, I am too.

[fredj338]

fredj338,

Others have admitted that the 650 is also prone to priming issues and is the weakest link in the 650 press. I've said I had to do some tinkering on the LNL. It's run well since. I'm not willing to pay someone else for a little bit of setup time that I can do myself, that also helps me understand what makes the thing work. I'm willing to accept that. As mentioned previously, the location of the priming system on the LNL suits me.

Most of the other things are preferences, not issues. I prefer the LNL bushings, you prefer the dies. Neither of us is wrong.

What key did you shear off on the LNL and can you provide details of how it happened? I'm curious what to watch out for.

I'm still on my original case retaining spring.

The EZject does hang on occasion, usually due to a flaw in the rim of the case.

The point made by jmorris is moot if a Hornady, RCBS, or Mr. Bulletfeeder is used. Both presses are 5 station and something has to go to use one of these feeders. You are not talking about two presses at the same price point once the GSI bullet feeder is added.
The only way the 650 priming system has issues is in changing over & not getting sonething right. I have not changed my 650 over, it is setup for 45acp or 45colt, everything else gets loaded on the 550B.
As to the LNL bushings. They come loose, depends on the fit with each given LNL head. Get going, the press vibrates, the bushings can back out & then you get 50% bearing & a key will shear. This was so prevelant that Hornady offered shims. That is a bandaid fix IMO. The tool head on the 650 is pretty bullet proof. There may be some play, but that is easily raken out w/ a pin punch & 30sec of file work if you get a sloppy one.
All progresives are a balancing act. SOme work well, LNL, some work like krap; Lee, some work better; Dillon. They can certainly all break, but Dillon will run out of the box, few other will. Since price is not really the issue, why waste $$ trying to get something else to do the job, buy the best tools you can afford. If ti made my press run better, I woudl paint it red. I think many like to be contrarian & go to anything other than Dillon, but it is the standard everyone else tries to copy. There is no right or worng choice, your $$, but there are better choices.

[Cosmiceyes]

Let's address this like it should be addressed.My Dillon RL 550 B has been used by me since 1987.Other than new upgrades it is unchanged.There are some new parts as a spring went somewhere,and had to be replaced.How old is you Hornady?
OK someone like springs instead of buttons.How does that really make one better than the other?
If the manufacture of your machine changed it every time the competitor had something new you would hate them all,because you couldn't afford them.
The question of which is best is really which one makes you happiest.To me it would be economics.With Hornady you have the middle man making money.With Dillon there isn't a middle man.
Which is better the RCBS Rock Chucker,or the Hornady Lock & Load? Hint my Rock Chucker just broke into when I dropped it from arms length off the floor.RCBS will not send me another one for free as I bought it in the 70's.

[hermans]

I have the Dillon 550B, if the Hornady is better, it must be really good, because the Dillon is absolutely fantastic!

[gunoil]

How bout a dillon 1050 with mrbulletfeeder.net? hehehehe.

[Ironnewt]

A buddy has a Hornady and it seems he has problems when he switches calibers, I don't know if it's him or the machine as once it's "Dialed In" it seems to work like a charm. I have 2 Dillon 550B's and I'm pleased with them. I got a deal on the second and bought it so I don't have to switch primer sizes, which I find to be the biggest problem with this machine. To each his own.

[fredj338]

Let's address this like it should be addressed.My Dillon RL 550 B has been used by me since 1987.Other than new upgrades it is unchanged.There are some new parts as a spring went somewhere,and had to be replaced.How old is you Hornady?
OK someone like springs instead of buttons.How does that really make one better than the other?
If the manufacture of your machine changed it every time the competitor had something new you would hate them all,because you couldn't afford them.
The question of which is best is really which one makes you happiest.To me it would be economics.With Hornady you have the middle man making money.With Dillon there isn't a middle man.
Which is better the RCBS Rock Chucker,or the Hornady Lock & Load? Hint my Rock Chucker just broke into when I dropped it from arms length off the floor.RCBS will not send me another one for free as I bought it in the 70's.
Are you saying you expect them to send you a new one? I am all about CS & QC in a manuf, but 40yrs & you abused it in some fashion, buy a new one, you got your money's worth IMO.

[Love Life]

Let me tell a story.

There once was a man who wanted a progressive press. After playing with a Hornady and a Dillon he decided to buy the Dillon. He and the Dillon lived happily ever after.

The end.

[1bluehorse]

I find it interesting (for me anyway) that these "comparisons" seem to always be between Dillon and Hornady...(with the Loadmaster thrown in for comic relief) (yes I said that) but the "comparators" (new word) always seem to leave out a very viable (and as good in my estimation) press in the RCBS Pro 2000...cast iron frame, auto indexing, changeable die plate, (for those who like that) a better priming system, smooth ergonomic operation, 5 stations, powder system as good as any, case feeder and bullet feeder capable (if wanted) and customer service as good as anyones....just another option thats available...make my Kool-aid Lemon Lime...[smilie=s:

[williamwaco]

Let me tell a story.

There once was a man who wanted a progressive press. After playing with a Hornady and a Dillon he decided to buy the Hornady. He and the Hornady lived happily ever after.

The end.

[fredj338]

Agreed, this can be an issue. I fail to see how adding thicker o-rings to cure the problem on the LNL is any more of a headache than removing the slop on the Dillon tool head. Tools aren't even required for the LNL bushings. Again, pick your poison. They both have drawbacks. Nearly every design decision does. It's part of the game, how much design are people willing to pay for? I've put a lot of force on the LNL bushings in the Rock Chucker and haven't seen shearing issues. I'm not saying it can't happen, just surprised. What die was in the bushing when this happened? Rifle or pistol? Just curious of the details of the incident.



Every design project is a balancing act. Quality, time, and cost. Those are the issues of any design. Anytime the first goes up, so do the other two. Price was an issue when I bought mine. I concede it isn't as much of a gap now, if we are talking one or two calibers.

I did buy the best tool for my operation. I did not make the decision solely on the basis of money, but it was a positive for the Hornady.



While I can certainly be contrary, that isn't the point. I'm not bashing Dillon. They are good machines. Best is subjective. Best at what? The 650 certainly isn't the "best" progressive in the Dillon lineup according to Dillon themselves. They reserve that for the 1050. I'm not opening the wormhole on the 1050, just pointing out that best is subjective. I think both the LNL and the 650 are good presses and what is the "better choice" depends on the nuances you are willing to deal with.
As an aside, I'll explain why I don't run a case feeder. I have a Lyman Auto-Flo tumbler. The media drains out the bottom, but not all of it gets out of the brass, particularly rifle brass. I'm using mineral spirits and polish in the media, so it has enough moisture in it to make the particles stick to each other sometimes. I take it out of the tumbler, put it in the bucket, and start feeding it into the progressive. I'm checking each case as I go to make sure it doesn't have any media hung up in it. Grab the piece of brass, turn it upside down, tap it on the bench top, grab the bullet with the same hand, then put both in the the press. Repeat. If I ran a case feeder, I'd have to make sure I separated all the media from the brass before putting it into the case feeder. It's an extra step. It seems more efficient to me, particularly with rifle brass that has already been sized and inspected once before the final tumbling/lube removal, to just hand feed it and check it then. The time is spent either way, would the case feeder really gain me anything?

Ah, where to start. Most things in life are subjective. To deny something is better & not just diff is denying reality. I never said the 650 was the best press, only that Dillon is the industry std everyone else is trying to catch up to. The 2nd gen LNL is not a bad press, but not as good, based on objective review of the features vs cost, compared to a 650. No case feeder, the LNL is slightly more user friendly.
No extra step in media separation. The way you are using your LNL is actually slower, case feeder or not. Not separating the media first, is painfully slower. So the 1min extra step of separating the media is eaten up by you pawing thru your tumbler in & knocking media out of each case.
As to the tool heads vs bushings. The bushing shims have to be installed each time you place a die back into the press. The 30sec fix on a sloppy Dillon tool head is done once & never needs adjusting or tools again, ever. Pull the pins, remove the tool head, replace with another tool head, what 20sec. Remove 4 individual bushings & replace 4 individual bushings on the LNL, make sure they are tight, etc. No thanks, but if it works for you, great.

[jmorris]

I'd have to make sure I separated all the media from the brass before putting it into the case feeder. It's an extra step. It seems more efficient to me, particularly with rifle brass that has already been sized and inspected once before the final tumbling/lube removal, to just hand feed it and check it then. The time is spent either way, would the case feeder really gain me anything?

I also tumble twice and run them through two different presses. The first press sizes/deprime then trim, the 2nd loads them. Have a rotary style media separator and don't have a problem. The case feeders gain you speed or at least cleaner hands that don't cramp up.

FWIW the first LNL I had, pre EZ Ject, they didn't yet offer shims. I just installed an o-ring large enough that it was a tight fit. Pretty simple if you stock o-rings.

The RCBS seems like the SAAB of the Progressive reloading world.

[fredj338]

I like the RCBS but dislike the priming system. Buying the primer strips is limiting & expensive. Sure, you can load your own strips, but just another tedious thing to do. Also no case feeder. If one does not mind the priming strips, I prefer the RCBS to the LNL.

I find it interesting (for me anyway) that these "comparisons" seem to always be between Dillon and Hornady...(with the Loadmaster thrown in for comic relief) (yes I said that) but the "comparators" (new word) always seem to leave out a very viable (and as good in my estimation) press in the RCBS Pro 2000...cast iron frame, auto indexing, changeable die plate, (for those who like that) a better priming system, smooth ergonomic operation, 5 stations, powder system as good as any, case feeder and bullet feeder capable (if wanted) and customer service as good as anyones....just another option thats available...make my Kool-aid Lemon Lime...[smilie=s:

[Love Life]

Let me tell a story.

There once was a man who wanted a progressive press. After playing with a Hornady and a Dillon he decided to buy the Hornady. He and the Hornady lived happily ever after.

The end.

I like my version better!

[Cosmiceyes]

Let me tell you a story! Dillon!
The end.
My version is shorter!


I like my version better!

[williamwaco]

I like my version better!

Yeah, I thought you would.:razz:

[Mayhem]

Well said, both machines or all have some quirks to them.

[Lloyd Smale]

heres my brutal opinion. If you used both and do ALOT of loading and still claim the lnl is as good or better you are trying to justify the fact you spent money on one. Ive loaded on both and spent money on lnls and regret it. Dillon is a superior press period.

[Moonman]

When I purchased my LNL-AP I thought it was maybe 2/3 the price of a Dillon 650?

[Alvarez Kelly]

And it's still Ford vs Chevy. They both work fine. One works better, or fill some niche, for some, while the other works better, and just "feels" better to others.

If you can, use both, then make up your own mind. No one can think for you.

[Lloyd Smale]

No exact number in mind but keep in mind that just about every competive shooter that has to load his own ammo uses dillon presses. Id guess theres a reason for that.

Heres some useful info. The case feeders suck, the contant going out of time sucks, by the way all three of mine do it, the lock and load bushings come loose. Many times im going along loading and realize my powder dispensor is loose and going up and down and not dropping powder and i have to go back and weight rounds to see which have been charged. If they cured these faults they would have a great press instead of a good press. Ive loaded a bunch on 650s too and dont remeber ever having to fool with the case feeder or the press ever going out of time. Guys will bad mouth the fact the dies move around a bit but in the same breath praise the coax that brags that there dies float. One things for sure though in there defense. there sure better then that other red brand.

Yes like Alverez said its a ford vs chev thing and just like in those arguments your not going to get to many to admit there turd is a turd. Most think there so smart they wouldnt buy anything but the best and will scratch to justify it even when they know better. Im not like that. If i make a mistake in what i buy or dont like what i own im the first to say it. I would just as soon someone else not make the same mistake. Like i said before i own three lnls. Ive used them a TON! I know there strenghts and there weaknesses. Why would anything i say be untrue when im about calling myself dumb for buying them. Id much rather stand here and tell you i was smart enough to buy the best.
Interesting angle. Do you have a particular number in mind?

I load more than anyone I know personally and less than many I know of. I think I'm right in the middle, but maybe not. The majority of my loading is done in the winter months or rainy days when it isn't pleasant to be out on the motorcycle. I've loaded a couple thousand in an evening after work and I've spent months (extended duration of inactivity and pistol vs. rifle) loading a couple thousand, from dirty brass to ready to fire. The fact of my reloading operation is the presses spend more time idle than active, as it takes more time to build up the stockpile of supplies than it does to get them put together. As an example, I've had over 17k pieces of 10mm brass waiting for 9 months. As jmorris pointed out, it's a significant chunk of change to get the other components to go with them. Assuming $25/lb for powder, $0.04/primer, and $0.15 per 180 gr jacketed bullet, we're talking approximately $4,000 to get the rest of the components. That's just one of the 10 calibers I do on the progressive and doesn't account for others that are done on the single stage or turret presses. The lack of money is what slows the press down, not desire. Maybe if you have enough budget to keep the progressive press running all the time, you see a difference?

Although you regretted your purchase of a LNL, I do not. I'm not trying to convince me or you of it. My intent is to put usable information out these for folks that might be looking at the two, as I had to do a lot of searching to get the answers I was looking for at the time. That's why I'm poking and prodding for the back story on some of the points made.



Mine was too, and they still are if you don't include the case feeder, but they are currently priced similarly for a single caliber with the case feeder. You have to get into multiple calibers to see the cost difference now, if a case feeder is included on each, and even then it's relatively small. Maybe it comes down to if you want or need a case feeder, the Dillon is the better option, as was suggested earlier in this thread? I don't know, but I want to find out through personal experience.

Thanks to everyone who has contributed thoughtful comments to this thread.

[btroj]

Dillon is the king. Period.

Some don't like Dillon, I get that. It doesn't change the fact that Dillon is THE progressive against which all others are measured.

My 550 has been with me for approaching 20 years. No problems at all. It just works. Replaced a single part. Heck, I am even still using the original plastic fingers on the end of he primer tubes and those are parts that they send replacements for with the press!

We can debate this all day long and nothing will change. Long as we are all happy with what we have then I am ok with it.

Just never forget that there is a reason why the Dillon is the king.

[rbuck351]

I only have experience with my Dillon 550 that I got about 18yrs ago. So far I have had exactly two issues with it. The first was a shell plate that was made slightly out of index and it would crunch primers unless you held back pressure on the plate. Dillon gave me a new one (free) which fixed the problem. Second was when my dog chewed up one of the plastic tips on a primer tube. I guess I could call dillon and get a replacement plastic tip but there was extras with the press when I bought it and so far thats the only one than went bad. My 550 just works and produces ammo faster than I can afford to shoot. So if the LNL is a better press it must indeed be a dandy.

[jmorris]

Interesting angle. Do you have a particular number in mind?

I would say 100 or more at a time.

You don't have to load a million rounds a week to enjoy a good press.

[Guardian]

My apologies for attempting to add anything to the content of this thread. All comments have been retracted.

[Alvarez Kelly]

And there went the thread again......

I don't think so. jmorris owns both the LNL and about every Dillon made. Has lots of experience with them. He knows which ones are a pain in the *** and which ones aren't.

I thought his responses were pretty well articulated.

You seem to have a hard time grasping that other folks opinions and experiences aren't the same as yours.

[1bluehorse]

Why does one or the other have to be the "BEST"? As long as it does it's job efficiently with easily controllable "issues", who the HE!! cares....does it meet your expectations? Does it make good ammunition? Are you content with it? Do you get good service from the manufacturer? If you answer yes to the above, then why should you give a hoot what someone else is using?? I have a couple older Ammomaster Auto's from RCBS, you know the one...looks like the Ammomaster 2 single stage with add ons, loooong throw, squiggley thing in the middle for indexing, worst, absolutely worst, powder drop mechanism ever put on a press, tube primers right in the front of the press (I know, it'll blow up and put out an eye) with the original powder drop system it was a pain in the ****......BUT....enter the new case activated system by Hornady and RCBS, kinda spendy at 85.00 bucks a pop, 170 w/free shipping for two and now the presses work just fine......are they the "best", I seriously doubt it, (however since the new powder linkage I've had zero issues with either one) they are "old school", large frame, smooth, very strong and very versitile,...but they would probably drive a guy with a 650 or LNL absolutley nuts operating one, but I don't really care........I like em'...

[fredj338]

Life is too short for ugly women, krappy beer & reloading in inferior equip. You of course can make your own choice on any of the above. I agree with Lloyd, anyone that has loaded on both the LNL & 650 & still says the LNL is a better tool for nearly the same $$, is just kidding themselves.

[6bg6ga]

Life is too short for ugly women, krappy beer & reloading in inferior equip. You of course can make your own choice on any of the above. I agree with Lloyd, anyone that has loaded on both the LNL & 650 & still says the LNL is a better tool for nearly the same $$, is just kidding themselves.

There are some here that absolutely won't admit that they have made a mistake in their choice of reloading press and simply have to try to justify their misguided purchase. Most of us will go on record stating their choice is the Dillon product.
It didn't take much time on the other presses for me to come to the conclusion that I wanted a 650. The 550 is a great machine and my brother has three or four in his garage and they all work great and have had no problems. I opted for the 650 because I wanted a no nonsense machine that I could simply set and forget. Mine has a case feeder and bullet dropper and has made my reloading time a hell of a lot easier and stress free. To be perfectly honest here I would guess that 95% of reloaders here would opt for the Dillon when given the chance to use one for a reloading session.

Buy smart buy once and you will save a heck of a lot of money that can be put forth to purchase something else on your wish list.

[500MAG]

I have been loading for 30 years. I had to start with Lee, because of the cost when I was a teen and thank God for Lee. I had a Pro 1000 and hated it. Considered the load master or Hornady
LNL. Got a Square deal from a Craigslist ad from a guy for a sweet price. Purchased the 650 for my rifle cases. What sold me on Dillon? The girls on the catalog! Duh..