Harbor Freight 25% off July 4th - time for a 7" x 12" mini lathe

[MrWolf]

Based upon advise from fellow members (thanks Prospector Howard and Cane_Man), I think I will order the 7"x12" mini lathe for $450 after coupon. What do you folks think as I will basically use it for making dies, tinkering, etc? I heard with a few modifications such as a 4" chuck, they can be decent machines for the money.

[Forrest r]

Sharp tools/drill bits, a slow feed and some imagination is all's that needed to get one of these hobby lathe's to be able to make a wide verity dies, nose forming dies, punches, sizing dies or other pieces & parts.

[Twmaster]

Having owned an HF lathe like that I strongly suggest you save your money and buy a real lathe.

You would be better served by the 8x12 lathe HF sells if you are hell bent on getting a lathe and using the discount offer. You are going to spend a lot of time and heartburn trying to get that 7x machine to cut well. Learning to use a lathe on a machine that is as poor quality as that will be an exercise in frustration.

Buying machine tools based on low price is a recipe for disaster.

[Artful]

7x12 3.2 stars by customer review http://www.harborfreight.com/7-inch-x-12-inch-precision-mini-lathe-93799.html
8x12 4.6 stars by customer review http://www.harborfreight.com/8-inch-x-12-inch-precision-benchtop-lathe-44859.html

save up and wait for next coupon when you can afford a good one.

[MrWolf]

I had not considered the 8x12 - looking at it and some of the reviews on the net it seems to be a decent machine for the price. Problem is my truck just went down with a rusted out frame (my brake lines kept rusting out and blowing) so I may end up waiting and getting the better tool. I do agree with buying better quality and for the $300 difference it makes sense. Like most everyone else I have to convince the wife I need the tool ;-)

[Cane_man]

looks like a good deal and it will get you in the game Wolf, but as Forest says above sharp cutting tools and drill bits, and i will add materials that turn easily such as 12L14, 41L40, annealed O1, etc. you will also want a bench grinder to sharpen cutting tools, and i cheat and use the Drill Doctor for sharpening drill bits

this is a great site that will give you some fantastic insights on setting up your machine:

"Varmint Al's Mini Lathe Page" http://varmintal.com/alath.htm

[Nickle]

Before you buy that Harbor Freight machine, check this one out.

http://www.grizzly.com/products/7-x-12-Mini-Metal-Lathe/G8688

[MrWolf]

Good read Cane - thanks

[MrWolf]

Thanks for all the input. I have a lot of reading to do to figure out which lathe will do what I need it to do.

[customcutter]

MrWolf,

I haven't owned a 7X10. I have owned an Atlas 10X36. It got very little use because it was not a quick change gear box, nor did I have the change gears for it to do threading. That being said, I would suggest that you buy as much lathe as you can afford, and also have room for. Some people have done amazing work on 7X10's and there are a ton of mods you can do to them. I wanted to upgrade my Atlas a couple of years ago, so I started watching CL. I found several 12-14 inch Logans, South Bends, etc from $1000-$2000. After almost a year I found a very lightly used 14X40 Birmingham with lots of tooling advertised for $1000. I was the first caller, the seller said he would take $700 and a used HighPoint .40. I drove 2 hours one way to pick it up that afternoon. I could probably sell it for $2500 today with the tooling I got with it.

20% coupons are common at HF. Is the extra $30 for a 25% coupon worth jumping on the deal? Do you have the time and ability to search for a deal on a good used lathe? I got to where I was checking CL every afternoon several times a day.

A new small lathe, or a used worn out lathe, is better than no lathe at all.:D

I see the 7X10's for sale on CL from $100-300 depending on condition. So you can get some of your money back out it if you decide to buy a new one, and then decide to upgrade.

good luck,
CC

EDIT: Sorry, should have been 7X12

[Nickle]

CC is right.

I mentioned that Grizzly lathe, as I own one of those, that's my small table top machine. The other is a much larger Craftsman, older, not here, but I do the real gunsmithing on that one, and the die making and case work on the Grizzly. The Grizzly machine is Chinese, but seems to be OK. Worst case scenario, it's going to be good enough for case work.

[Cane_man]

Wolf, if i could afford it i would do as cc recommends, the only reason i have the 7x12 is because that is what i could afford... i wish i had more power and it was more stable and larger, but i gots what i gots and i make it work somehow but a larger better made lathe would make it much easier :)

[nhrifle]

The thing with the small lathes like the one you are looking at is that the potential is there. I have one and can do things on it that several machinists have told me can't be done. With the right tooling, I can cut inconel and similar alloys, turn a cylinder and keep taper on a 6" length within .0005", cut and bore steel that will laugh at the best files, and so forth. The cuts I can take are relatively small and change over for threading is more work than if I had a quick change gear box. It took some work to get it to cut like this, but can be done. Out of the box it chattered and did a generally poor job. If you are willing to put some time and effort into refining and fine tuning it, that lathe will cut anything you can fit through the spindle bore or into the chuck.

[Prospector Howard]

Mrwolf, This is a tough call and i thought about it myself for awhile and looked at used lathes off craigslist and just got sick of thinking about it. I decided that I wanted something new, (after looking at all the junk people were trying to sell); and even the small hobby lathe will do what I wanted it to do. So I went to HF with a 7/8 -14 nut and made sure the small 3 jaw chuck was big enough to tighten down on it -yep. Out the door for $400 plus tax and extended warranty (good idea considering everything). I figured the main problem was getting a lemon and so I bought what they carry in the store, got an extended warranty and if anything went wrong I could take it right back and get a new one and i'd be back in business in a matter of hours, (instead of months on something you have to order). I've been pleasantly surprised at how well it's worked for me, and i didn't get a lemon. Like Forrest said, good tools and bits help alot. I do wish that the one they carry in the store was slightly bigger, bit I also kind of like it not being too big and heavy so I can move it around easy. I'm not a machinist nor do I play one on TV, but it's worked for me. And like CC said, any lathe is better than no lathe at all, (by a long shot).

[newcastter]

I too was considering buying that lathe but after carful review and research and the help of many on the forum including CC I have decided to hold out and wait for a deal on a older larger model, I am watching Craigslist daily hoping for a steal to pop up.
There are plenty of bad reviews on this model lathe you are looking at and very few good ones I would seriously reconsider your purchase. But if you do go with please keep us all informed of your first hand experience.
Howard please keep us updated on your satisfaction of the lathe.

[Twmaster]

Good work can be done on the 7" chinese lathes. The lathe needs a handful of modifications to really make up for the poor fit and cr ap engineering of some parts.

I had the Red HF 7x10 lathe. It was cr ap. I have a Cummins 7x12 that has been completely worked over. While it still has problems it's much better than the stock HF lathe. I use it for small work and it now does acceptable cuts.

The biggest issue with these machines is mass. They are too light for the amount of work you often see folks trying to do. The main advantage of the 8x12 lathe mentioned is mass. It weighs in at about 250 pounds where the 7" is less than 100. I can easily pick up and carry my 7x lathe away.


Second biggest issue is a design flaw. The carriage retaining system on these lathes in one word, SUCKS. You either have to make and fit a set of shims or make a set of adjustable retainers. I can guarantee you out of the box these little lathes will not be set up correctly. The next issue is fit and finish of the dovetails on the compound and cross slide. They use cast iron gibs and these are usually warped. Straightening the gibs and lapping them and the dovetails is a must.

A carriage lock is a must. There's so much more that needs to be done that I'd be writing a book in this space.

One option I did not mention is the Taig Micro Lathe.

If you are mostly going to work on cartridge cases and not planning on doing any thread cutting these lathes cannot be beat for price and performance. They are truly precision machines. You can buy the basic lathe in kit form for about $150 or assembled for less than $200. You can add all the accessories you want from there. They also offer full kits with motors etc. the nice thing about going this route is you can add accessories and tooling as you need it rather than plunking a bunch of cash down at one time.

This dealer: Nick Carter (http://www.cartertools.com/catalog.html) offers 10% off the listed prices for almost all the items in the Taig catalog.

As others have pointed out if you are patient and pay attention to your local classified adds you may be able to find a good used machine at an attractive price. Just be ready to jump now. Be wary of buying a clapped out machine.

Sorry for the lengthy post. Just wanted to point out the pitfalls as I've been there and made most of the new machinery owner mistakes.

[Gliden07]

I got real lucky I was given a Atlas 618! No tooling, change gears or motor. I'm gonna get it going one of these days! I have no idea how a metal lathe works but want to learn can any of you guys in the know tell me a book that would get me some basics?

[sprinkintime]

If it was me I would save up just a little more and find a South Bend or Atlas that has a Quick Change Box, in decent condition and this should last you for years. I have used both and still using the South Bend it is a 9x42, I have made many dies on it. The only change I did was put on a Collet chuck so I could use 5C collets. Hope this helps a little.
Sprink

[Twmaster]

I got real lucky I was given a Atlas 618! No tooling, change gears or motor. I'm gonna get it going one of these days! I have no idea how a metal lathe works but want to learn can any of you guys in the know tell me a book that would get me some basics?

The 618 is a decent basic light machine. Change gears can be found on eBay. A great book to get you started can be downloaded here:

http://www.bbssystem.com/manuals/Lathe-Tutorial.pdf (The Text Book of Turning, by Hercus) I found this to be better than the South Bend or Atlas books.


If it was me I would save up just a little more and find a South Bend or Atlas that has a Quick Change Box, in decent condition and this should last you for years. I have used both and still using the South Bend it is a 9x42, I have made many dies on it. The only change I did was put on a Collet chuck so I could use 5C collets. Hope this helps a little.

The biggest problem with that strategy is finding a machine that is not clapped out and is reasonably priced. It's not like you can just find them everywhere and as time marches on fewer of these are still around.

Something else. Unless you are going to be turning different thread pitches throughout the day, a Quick Change gearbox is a luxury. Normal change gear machines will still do the jobs. Changing gears is NOT hard.

Just so I am clear here. I am not advocating any one brand, age or origin for a machine. I'm just trying to make it clear that buying a machine is not a trivial or easy thing. Many things need to be considered. Sadly too many go buy a lathe and figure they'll be making masterpieces or aerospace quality parts in no time. Yes, I am being the cold fish of reality.

[MrWolf]

Thanks for all the responses and thoughts. I have decided to wait and get a used machine. I've already found a 1950's commercial grade Atlas Metal Lathe, 1/3 hp, 4' work area with items for sale in my town. Already contacted seller who is the son selling Dad's tools as he is going into retirement home to get more details and what is included. I will know more in about three weeks. Won't know if $1300 is fair until I see what everything is, but from pics I did see machine looks maintained. Once I get more details I will post for opinions as I obviously do not know what I am doing at this stage :killingpc

[DukeInFlorida]

When I got divorced, and moved out, back in 1999... I left behind a 1912 Hindley with 4 foot bed, taper attachment, all tools, chucks, collets, etc.....

My kids tell me that it's still in the basement. Too damned big for anyone to remove. Was too big for stuff I would want to do these days.

[MrWolf]

That is the dilemma I am facing; what am I realistically going to do with the machine I get and the amount of room it is going to take up. In looking at the used machine I hope to see what is needed to give me some ideas since I am unfamiliar with the metal working. The smaller lathe may give me what I want as far as size and capability, but the larger machine should make the work easier as stated previously. It sounds like I would have to spend additional dollars on the smaller lathe to bring it up to standards and I hate working with bad tools. I am also not getting any younger with a bad back. Luckily I do not have to rush into it but if a deal comes along...

[newcastter]

I am in the exact same boat as you are. I too am looking for a lathe but have very limited knowledge and your trail of thoughts replicate exactly what I have been going through.
I will be watching this thread to help myself as well.

That is the dilemma I am facing; what am I realistically going to do with the machine I get and the amount of room it is going to take up. In looking at the used machine I hope to see what is needed to give me some ideas since I am unfamiliar with the metal working. The smaller lathe may give me what I want as far as size and capability, but the larger machine should make the work easier as stated previously. It sounds like I would have to spend additional dollars on the smaller lathe to bring it up to standards and I hate working with bad tools. I am also not getting any younger with a bad back. Luckily I do not have to rush into it but if a deal comes along...

[customcutter]

Guys, I don't know how familiar you are with lathes, milling machines, shapers, etc. I would highly recommend doing a google search on "how to buy a used lathe". There is lots of information out there on how to "educate" yourselves on buying a good machine vs. a worn out piece of junk. You need to be aware of things like worn ways, broken or worn gears, bad headstock bearings, etc. I spent lots of hours researching how to buy a lathe, as well as looking for one. Also try to find reviews for the particular lathe you might be looking at. Sometimes you can find the "weak points" by someone elses efforts. Also don't necessarily fall into the trap of "old American iron". There's plenty of other options, that may be better for your situation. Tubalcain on youtube has some excellent video's, some even relating to buying a used lathe IIRC.

Check out this thread in HomeShopMachinist. http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net/threads/59765-Help-me-write-an-ad-for-Dad-s-lathe-many-photos

There also another one where a guy just bought a craftsman/atlas lathe for $200 http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net/threads/59715-10-quot-Atlas-Worth-200

Both are worth a read just to give you an idea of prices, condition, accessories, etc.

These just happen to be Craftsman, not steering anyone in that direction.

hope this helps,
CC

[Nickle]

I know you aren't, but I will add that's a pretty good direction if you were to.

I've got a small lathe in the room in the house, and an older, larger Craftsman that we've got to move to the garage when it is up.

That Craftsman has done some pretty decent barrel work.

[MrWolf]

Wow- never knew so many things to look out for on a used lathe. Started looking around based on CC's comments and his links and also found this site:

Some Helpful Hints on Evaluating A Lathe
http://www.mermac.com/advicenew.html

I think with a lot more research I can at least meet the seller in a few weeks with knowledge, then see if the machine is even worth it based upon us reaching a fair price. I really appreciate everyone taking the time to help educate us newbs with the metal lathe, what to look for, and even determine if based upon our needs if we even need something that big.

[Twmaster]

Also, if you buy a worn out machine, it may not be the end of the world.

http://www.mermac.com/klunker2.html

FWIW, the Atlas and Atlas made Craftsman lathes are decent home shop machines within their limits. (Don't confuse the Craftsman model 109 with the Atlas made Craftsman machines)

[Nickle]

My big lathe is quit similar to the ones shown, though in much better overall condition. Clearly made by Atlas, as a few similarities are just too close to ignore. Other things bring me to believe mine is a newer machine, though I wouldn't call it or the one pictured anything near new.

Good stuff, all the same.

And, FWIW, I bought the small Grizzly primarily to do work on cases. Brass isn't too difficult to cut and not all that big either.

[customcutter]

:-DMy 8th grade Physical Sciences teacher told us that the best teacher is experience. He also told us that hot glass looks like cold glass, and that some of us would be burnt that year by a hot glass rod. Lets just say I had a jerk for a lab partner, who thought it would be fun to heat the stirring rod in the bunsen burner and leave it on the counter top, for someone else to pick up. I've tried to make it a habit to learn from other peoples "experience".

Glad to help with the advice, I had people help me, just trying to pay some of it back.

CC

Mike, I like your tag, and totally concur.

[customcutter]

Another thing to watch for is what kind of tooling, indicators, steady rest, chucks, extra's, etc. Sometimes tooling for a lathe will cost as much or more than the lathe. I think I mentioned a couple of times in previous post, my first lathe was a 10X36 Atlas, no QC gear box. I paid $125 on ebay for a set of gears and never used them for years. Finally went to sell the lathe and the first guy that came to look at it told me they were the wrong sized gears. Apparently the older lathes has smaller teeth on the gears. He was a wholesaler and told me it was a worn out piece of junk, that he'd be willing to pay $200 for. I loaded it on my trailer and took it to my son-in-law in Jacksonville. The tooling was worth more than the $200 he offered.

CC

[MrWolf]

I was in Harbor Freight and saw the 7x10 lathe. Man is that small, I mean I know the dimensions but actually seeing it.. Glad I asked as I am slowly learning what to look for and expect from the machine I choose.

[Cane_man]

this is what my lathe looked like when it was brand new (vendor pic not the actual but looked just like this), it looks like a toy, i am surprised it has lasted this long (12 years):

http://www.mini-lathe.com/Mini_lathe/Reviews/Homier_7x12/Homier_7x12.jpg

maybe when i retire in about 83 years i can see if the wife will let me get a decent used SB or Logan

[Twmaster]

Attached is a pic of my Cummins 7x12. It's basically the same lathe as the Speedway shown above.

I lost my home and business a bit more than three years ago. I had to part with 4 Rivett lathes. One was more than 100 years old at the time. Since I moved to OK (and now TX) I've bought this little Cummins and another Rivett 918.

Once I can get some workshop space (I live in an apartment for now) I'll be buying a 12-14" swing machine to do gun barrel work.

[Nickle]

My little Grizzly looks just like those two.

75335

[customcutter]

Here is another thread in a different section of the forum. Lots of good advice here too.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?204304-Mini-lathe-questions

CC

[MrWolf]

I have learned a lot since I made this thread. I will be waiting until I find a quality used southbend, logan, etc of at least 12". From what I could see in the picture of the lathe offered in my town, it appears to be a well maintained Atlas 10 x 36. There does not appear to be a quick change, it will probably have the Zamak (sp?) gears, etc., and does not look like it would fit my needs, especially at the $1300 price. I will still look at the machine to see what else is offered, but it is at least twice what that machine should go for based upon my research. I am starting to notice the lathes for sale in the area and can take my time to find the right deal. Wife likes the waiting part and she is keeping me busy around the house with her honey-do list. If I had not asked, I probably would have purchase the HF lathe and it would have handled the immediate project in mind but nothing else and I would have been dissapointed shortly with the limitations.

[customcutter]

MrWolf,
Glad to see you're doing your homework, and honey do's. Just a few weeks may pay off in big dividends. You should be able to get a good feel for prices in a fairly short period of time. Also you're located in an area that should have lots of used iron. Hoping you find a great deal. The quick change gear box isn't a must but it is nice. The change gears are available, I have a set that I bought for my old Atlas, they just were the wrong size gear tooth.:D

CC

[Cane_man]

this is a great thread!

i decided to download the craigslist app on my iphone and watch for some lathes at lunch every day... will be looking for a decent SB/Logan/Atlas/LaBlonde etc. in the 9"-12" range... will read up on the material in this thread to educate myself on how to inspect the condition of a lathe... thanks CC, Tw, Wolf and others who have contributed to this thread :2_high5:

anyone else please weigh in with experiences, recommendations, advice, etc. or if you want me to take that SB Model 9a off our hands for $100 pls let me know ;)

[ricklaut]

this is a great thread!

i decided to download the craigslist app on my iphone and watch for some lathes at lunch every day... will be looking for a decent SB/Logan/Atlas/LaBlonde etc. in the 9"-12" range... will read up on the material in this thread to educate myself on how to inspect the condition of a lathe... thanks CC, Tw, Wolf and others who have contributed to this thread :2_high5:

anyone else please weigh in with experiences, recommendations, advice, etc. or if you want me to take that SB Model 9a off our hands for $100 pls let me know ;)

Ditto. I know nothing... but it's time to learn something! It will be a while before I can afford to buy, but this has nudged me to start studying up.

[squished]

I've owned 4 lathes, and I know practically nothing about them. The first two were Craftsman 109s. I turned and fit a backplate to mount a 3 jaw chuck on that one. Later at a gun show I found a better one, also a 109 if I recall correctly. It was more complete and had change gears. I didn't know what they were at the time I bought the first one.

Eventually, I got tired of hunting for parts on ebay, LMS and other places, so I sold those. I then got an Atlas 10, which I think could have been brought back to good shape but I was again hunting for parts. Parts are available, just not in quantity and I found the part I needed seemed to be the ones everyone else needed, too. Plus older lathes can be Franken-lathes with mismatched parts from various configurations. But that doesn't mean they don't work, they may just not look nice.

I sold the Atlas, too. I've learned you can pretty much sell them on Craigslist for what you paid if you get them at the right price, which is nice.

I'm currently learning how to use a lathe with a Grizzly 7x12. It's got its share of things to adjust, or maybe it's me learning. But parts are available online without much of a search hassle and it was also more or less complete minus tooling out of the box.

[Nickle]

I grew up using one like below. Seeing that I own the business, it's mine now. Still got to get it moved over here though.

93618

Got a 7x12 Grizzly too, it is at my location.

93619

[slim1836]

Better check their fine print, it may be for in stock items only, and the lathe may not be there.

Just saying,

Slim

[SlippShodd]

I have one of the old HF 7x10 minis as the backup to my Lincoln/Tida 14x40. I paid less than 200 buck for it at the time, and it has more than paid for itself in its intended purpose. I was tired of setting up a project, zeroing it all in, then discovering that I forgot to turn some little part beforehand and had to take it all down. It is also my favorite brass prep tool. There's nothing like chucking up the chamfer tool and processing 1200 pieces of .223 brass you just trimmed. That said, I would hate to have to take this lathe too seriously without a pile of the mods others already mentioned. And that 10" work area gets real small real fast with the toolpost in there. But it does have its place, given its limitations. It makes a great pen lathe, and it's not drawing 26 amps.

mike