loading HM² 223 AR mold 225-62-1

[grampa243]

ok guys this thread is for sharing load data for JTknives' mold for the AR.

http://heavymetalmolds.com/ is the place to order now..

please use any data in this thread with caution and be careful. Use at your own risk.

[finishman2000]

well I just ordered the mold and looking forward to seeing what you guys come up with.

[Fire_stick]

20.7 grains of Varget has given me my best group so far at 50 yards. In a 4 shot group I did get one dang flier, however. 3 looked pretty good. In the picture below, the holes with a "1" are from the 20.7 grain load. The other holes are from a 20.4 grain load that opened up a bit more.

75295

The bullets are water quench and have an approximate hardness of 28 BHN (per Lee tester). The bullets with GC are about 62 grains +/-. Sized to .225" and lightly tumble lubed with 45/45/10 (Alox/JPW/MS). Prior to tumble lubing and checking, I did make a quick inspection of each bullet and cul the ones that didn't have full or near perfect bases.

The gun is a newer model Mini 14 Ranch Rifle. I loaded 100 rounds last weekend after getting this group in the initial test, and I hope to shoot these 100 rounds this weekend at 50 to 100 yards. Hopefully I'll be able to report some positive results.

[Bruizer]

How fast are you looking at running these bullets?

[Fire_stick]

I'm not concerned about speed as much as finding a load that groups well. But I estimate this load to be about 2300 fps. Which may be a little to fast.

[Down South]

I wonder how a mixture of Lino, Mono and Foundry would work? I have about 400 lbs of the stuff. I know it would be super hard especially after aging or water cooling. Of course the boolit would probably turn to dust if it hit something hard. Should cast a nice boolit though.

[Centaur 1]

What's the twist rate of your barrel? I recently bought my first AR, it's a Daniel Defense with a 1-7" barrel. I'd love to be able to use cast boolits, but I'm afraid of wasting time and money on something that isn't going to work.

[grampa243]

What's the twist rate of your barrel? I recently bought my first AR, it's a Daniel Defense with a 1-7" barrel. I'd love to be able to use cast boolits, but I'm afraid of wasting time and money on something that isn't going to work.

hey once we get things working i'll be glad to send you a sample of mine. i'm still waiting for my sizing die so i can start the testing.

[Centaur 1]

hey once we get things working i'll be glad to send you a sample of mine. i'm still waiting for my sizing die so i can start the testing.

That would be great. I hate the idea of owning a rifle that I can't cast for. As long as they're somewhat accurate, I'd be happy if they cycle the action and not lead the barrel. Our local indoor range frowns upon fmj bullets going 3200fps since the backstop is intended for stopping handgun ammo. If I want to shoot there, I either have to shoot cast boolits or buy frangible ammo from the range for $30/box.

[Wayne S]

What's the twist rate of your barrel? I recently bought my first AR, it's a Daniel Defense with a 1-7" barrel. I'd love to be able to use cast boolits, but I'm afraid of wasting time and money on something that isn't going to work. I'm just about finished load development with heavy J bullets in my RRA w/ 1-8 twist. I've been able to trade for two .225 bullets and have 3 .225 molds,After the J bullet test I'll start on cast, after that I'll work a trade with you on what I have and let you run a test .
One think you do need to locate is a neck expander ie. an M-Die for .224 Cal. I think ??? RCBS sells the body and interchangeable expander/belling plugs.

[blikseme300]

I use a Lee universal expander body with a self made insert that mimics the M-die. It opens up the neck to .224 and creates a small bell to ease the seating. A Lee FCD is used to crimp this bell back to parallel.

I have been trying a number of combinations but no pet recipe yet. The 3 requirements of no leading, action cycles and accuracy are hard to get. I discovered a problem with my AR bolt in that the extractor spring appears to have broken as the grip is very weak compared to my other AR's. I will be testing again this morning using a new BCG.

[runfiverun]

you can chamber a 227 diameter boolit in most 5.56 chambers with no touching of the throat area.
a 228 will scuff but will generally chamber pretty easily.
I wouldn't hesitate to start with 18 grs of 3031 through the 4064 powder speeds and move forward from there.

any alloy harder than ww's but less than lino should be pretty decent too.
in most of my testing I found lino to be too hard and the accuracy increased as I added more soft lead to it.
I finally just cut it in half to be the same as store bought commercial bullet caster alloy.

[blikseme300]

So I went testing again yesterday and learnt that I need to redo all my testing. I switched out the BGC of my 5.56 AR with one from another rifle and now cycling and ejection are fine. Some of my earlier test loads were very accurate but cycling was not there. I will be retesting those load combinations. Oh, another thing I learnt is that Dacron really works when working with the slower powders. This obsession we share has no limits or bounds.

[Wayne S]

blikseme,
On the "Dacron", did you use the long stringy stuff where you have to pull and guess at the "correct amount" or the "batten" type, which if flattened, where you can cut off the same amount each time.
Had to chuckle, I remember using the stringy stuff in my 10" 30-30 Contender. Use to much and it looked like someone blew on a "Puff Ball"

[SteveUSP]

Is there anyone willing to sell/swap about a dozen or so of these boolits? I'm just getting started and would like to see if these work in my RRA 16" 1.9 twist before I commit to buying a mold. I'll trade some lead or brass. Thanks.

[blikseme300]

Steve, PM me your address.

[blikseme300]

blikseme,
On the "Dacron", did you use the long stringy stuff where you have to pull and guess at the "correct amount" or the "batten" type, which if flattened, where you can cut off the same amount each time.
Had to chuckle, I remember using the stringy stuff in my 10" 30-30 Contender. Use to much and it looked like someone blew on a "Puff Ball"

Wayne, this is what I use. The pieces I use are about 3/8" square. This is the first time I have used Dacron and I am impressed and converted. I am still a noob at rifle cast reloading but as I passed the half century a while ago it is time to settle down and do fun stuff.76661

[blikseme300]

There are at least 29 molds out in the wild and not much load information yet? Come on guys and gals, please share.

[Wayne S]

Blikseme, , the bag says 45" x 60" so I'm taking it that is "batting", padding, or what ever people that sew call it.
On loads, I posted on the "RESULTS" section under NOE 225-70RN 10 shots in 1.25 x 1.625 using a 26" Savage w/ 1-9 twist.

[grampa243]

There are at least 29 molds out in the wild and not much load information yet? Come on guys and gals, please share.
my push through sizer is coming this week then i should be able to start sharing :)

[Centaur 1]

I'm just about finished load development with heavy J bullets in my RRA w/ 1-8 twist. I've been able to trade for two .225 bullets and have 3 .225 molds,After the J bullet test I'll start on cast, after that I'll work a trade with you on what I have and let you run a test .
One think you do need to locate is a neck expander ie. an M-Die for .224 Cal. I think ??? RCBS sells the body and interchangeable expander/belling plugs.

I've been using the Lee universal expander up until now, and it's always worked well. I'm guessing from yours and blikseme300's posts, that at some point the m-die is required with small calibers.

Remember to be careful with the Dacron filler, and don't pack it down against the powder.

[Wayne S]

Fillers, a good read http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?109280-The-proper-use-of-fillers

[mookiie]

What is the purpose of using fillers?

[Down South]

What is the purpose of using fillers?
Some loads that use hotter, faster burning powder and take up little case space do better with a filler. This helps keep the powder to the rear of the case for better uniform burn.
For a load with most of the case capacity used, a filler should not be needed.
There are others here that can define this better than me since I don't use fillers much.

[Xfire68]

How are you guys expanding the case mouths so there is no shear of the boolits or in my case it grabbed the gas check and tore it off?

I have never had the need to expand the case mouth on 5.56 as I have always used jacketed projectiles.

[Xfire68]

I will order a Lee Universal case expander.

[grampa243]

I will order a Lee Universal case expander.

that is what i use..and i anneal the brass too. :)

[TreeKiller]

Expander from Buckshot in a M Die .228 flair .223 for the boolits

[mookiie]

What type of alloy composition do you guys use for 223 with gas checks to not get leading?

[Xfire68]

that is what i use..and i anneal the brass too. :)


Good to know I picked well! :-P

[seagiant]

What's the twist rate of your barrel? I recently bought my first AR, it's a Daniel Defense with a 1-7" barrel. I'd love to be able to use cast boolits, but I'm afraid of wasting time and money on something that isn't going to work.

Hi,
I have the 62 gr. Mihec mold and use 19grs. of 4895 with my Daniel Defense CHF CL 1:7 HF Barrel and it shoots good and fuctions 100%! I size to .226!

[SharpShot]

Hi all,

I just tried working up a load for this bullet yesterday. I'm still a newbie to casting and reloading but I was happy enough with the results. I worked this load up in my stock Colt 6920 with the 16in 1/7 twist barrel. The targets were set up at only 100ft. My bullets ended up in the range of 62.4 to 63.2 gr lubed with gas check. I pan lubed them with Carnauba Red then tumbled them in liquid alox. I probably could have done without the liquid alox. I didn't notice any leading at all. I sorted my bullets by .1gr. I tried 5 shots each of 17 - 21.5 gr of IMR4895 in .5gr increments. I haven't been able to get hold the Lyman M die for 223 anywhere so I just carefully seated them while trying not to rip chunks off the gas check. The action would not function reliably till 18.5gr but at 18.5gr the bolt did not lock back on the last round. After that function was 100% but my groups started to spread out pretty bad after 19.5 gr. At 21gr I didn't even know were 2 of the bullets ended up. Then at 21.5 all 5 shots showed back up on the target. I then shot 2 groups of PMC bronze factory rounds as a comparison. It looks to me that the 18.5-19gr groups were pretty comparable in size to the factory jacketed loads with my rifle at that range. I think I may be able to load somewhere in between, like 18.7gr, and see if that will still lock the bolt back on the last round. I also want to see how this load does out at 50 and 100 yrds. I need a chrono. It would be nice to know what velocity I'm launching these little things at. Any educated guesses?

78892788937889478898

[louism]

Thanks for posting your load development. It will be very useful.

[Larry Gibson]

At 33 1/3 yards those groups are definitely telling you the RPM Threshold is exceeded. Guesstimate on velocity; too much. Suggest dropping back to 16.5 gr 4895, use a 1/2 gr dacron filler and work back up just functional reliability. The dacron will help with ignition and give more gas port pressure at a bit less velocity with probable better accuracy.

Larry Gibson

[finishman2000]

just did some quick function tests with these pain in the *** (my fingers are way to big for gas checks on 22's lol) little wonders. 18.0, 18.5 and 19 grains of 4895 in both an ak and a piston ar (stag model 8). all three loads worked the action and even locked back the ar.
I'll be going to the range later to chrono and group these and will post back.

[Wayne S]

Hi all,
I then shot 2 groups of PMC bronze factory rounds as a comparison. It looks to me that the 18.5-19gr groups were pretty comparable in size to the factory jacketed loads with my rifle at that range. I think I may be able to load somewhere in between, like 18.7gr, and see if that will still lock the bolt back on the last round. I also want to see how this load does out at 50 and 100 yrds. I need a chrono. It would be nice to know what velocity I'm launching these little things at. Any educated guesses?


Keep us informed with your progress, AND your cleaning procedure, if any, when going from cast to jacketed, and also the other way as well.
Also, see if you can find a friend with any 223 with slower twists anywhere from, a 1-8 or 1-9 to 1-12 twist bbl. just to see what effect the slower twists have on your loads

[finishman2000]

well just got back. the 18.0gr was pretty much the same vel in both guns. averaged 1750.
18.5 came in at 1870 with ar and 1775 with ak.
19.0 cam ein at 1951 average with the ar and 1800 with the ak. the ak barrel has been cut down to 13.5 and it is clear to see that the slower powder doesn't like the shorter barrel. the ar has a 1:9, ak 1:7.
all three is good enough for me since I will be using these to shoot steel out to 100yards and just for cheap practice.

Checked thye barrels, both are clean and shiny with zero lead seen.

[Wayne S]

Are those marker "tiks' on the boles usually at 12:00 to 1:00 ??

[finishman2000]

marker hacks so I could tell the ar from the ak holes. 5 ar's 2 or 3 aks

[SharpShot]

Thanks for your feedback Larry. I have read quite a few of your posts in my research before starting cast with the 223 and have found your insight useful. I have read about the rpm threshold from your posts. Do you feel that all my groups are above this threshold? I figured getting close to factory accuracy from 17.5 -18.5 gr was promising. I do agree that my groups from 19gr and up appear to push past the threshold since the groups get progressively worse. I just got a hold of a lyman die and already loaded a few rounds at 18.5 18.7 and 19gr, but if I can get some dacron before the weekend I will definitely do as you suggest. I would love to see the groups shrink. Also, I just ordered a chronograph so hopefully it will show up before this weekend so I can have more detailed results to post.

It will be interesting to see how my velocities compare to finishman2000's.

Wayne, I shot 60 cast rounds with minimum jacketed data for Tac and CFE 223 before I got any 4895. The bore was clean. I probably shot another 40 jacketed rounds before that and did not clean in between. I shot those rounds mainly for function but did shoot some at paper and the groups were bigger than my best 4895 loads. I then shot 60 more cast loads and 40 more jacketed without cleaning in between and the bore still looks clean. I plan on cleaning my rifle before this weekend just because its been a little while since the last cleaning. I unfortunately don't have any buddies with ARs but one guy has a Remington 700 in 223. I don't know what twist it is but its hard to get him out to shoot. He cleans is guns more than he shoots them. But, if I get the chance i'll see if he'll let me use it. I will definitely keep you all posted on my progress.

[SharpShot]

Hey all,

My chrono didn't show up for this last weekend's shooting trip so I was unable to get any velocity data. I do have it now for this weekend though. I bought some polyfil from Walmart and tried what Larry recommended. I added the 1/2gr of filler to sets of 5 rounds from 16.5-19gr in .5gr increments. I shot these 5 shot groups at 100yrds this time. My AR cycled 100% reliably, with the bolt held back on the last round, only after 18.5gr of IMR4895 with the filler. I found the On Target Precision Calculator online and figured I'd use that to better analyze my groups. My group sizes with fillers came out to: 16.5gr = 2.915moa, 17gr = 3.052moa, 17.5gr = 3.629moa, 18gr = 3.815moa, 18.5gr = 4.032moa, 19gr = 3.757moa. I still had those groups loaded without fillers so I shot them at the same range and got the following sizes: 18.5gr = 4.187moa, 18.7gr = 2.577moa, 19gr = 4.478moa. The 18.5gr group without filler cycled just fine and held the bolt back this time. As you can see my smallest group was the 18.7gr without a filler but I did notice the groups with fillers grew more linearly and seemed consistently smaller than the other 2 groups without fillers. I recognize that 5 round groups are probably not a large enough sample size for a reliable statistic sample. The 2.577moa group may be an outlier. I have loaded a few more of that same load with and without filler for 10 round groups to compare a larger sample size for this coming weekend. You might notice from my targets that the zero wanders, that because I was playing with the zero on my scope in between groups. I probably should have left it be to see if the zero would have stayed roughly in the same spot. I noticed that the rounds with the filler would stink like burning plastic when I fired them. I looked down the barrel after and saw what I thought were small burnt plastic beads. It didn't look like it was getting stuck to the barrel at all. Is this normal with using this filler? or am I doing it wrong? I would prefer to not use the filler if it doesn't make an appreciable difference because of the smell. It doesn't seem like I'm going to get any smaller groups with full function with my setup. My rifle typically shoots factory ammo at 2-3moa so this is just a bit bigger. Maybe a different powder or primer could help? Oh, and my OAL is 2.2in What are you guys loading yours at? I still haven't cleaned my rifle. I shot 70 cast and 130 jacketed without cleaning in between. The barrel still seems fine. I did not notice any leading. I need to clean it for this weekend though. The bolt carrier group is filthy. Sorry for the long and winded posts. I like hearing all the details so I figured I should share them as well.

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[Larry Gibson]

About time to switch to 10 shot groups and drop back to 16.5 gr with the dacron filler and work back up to 18.5 gr. When yo find the load in there then try it with 1/3 gr dacron. If yo want to try another powder I suggest going slower with RL 19, AA4350, H4831SC or RL22.

Larry Gibson

[grampa243]

well i have not yet shot for group yet, but i did a function test in my AR ran loads from 13-17 grains with IMR4198. using "ben's red" and aluminum checks. seated overall length 2.197
boolit sized to .2255

13 kicked out the shell but did not feed the next round. 14 - 17 all feed the next round and bolt went fully back after the last round.

all were stable in the 1in8 twist. no high pressure signs. gun has mid-length gas tube and Wylde chamber.

i loaded 10 more up with 14.4 grains of IMR4198 and shot a full mag. in a 3-gun practice from 50-100 yards they seam to shoot on par with my normal shooting.. and feed fine. no leading noted.

next batch will be for grouping.

[SharpShot]

I finally got out to shoot again. I got rained out on the weekend before. I shot two 10 round groups both at 18.7gr one with filler and one without. You can see the results below. I got my new chrono in and these loads came in at an average of 1936 fps. Looks like my rifle doesn't like the filler. I'll need to try and use less filler and work back up like Larry recommends and see if that changes anything.

Grampa243,

I've read about IMR4891 being a candidate for cast loads but that it is one of the fastest powders that will cycle the AR. I like the idea of using less powder to make these loads even cheaper. I'll be interested to see your groups sizes. It's one of the only relevant powders in stock at my local gun stores right now. I may have to try it if it works out for you.

8142481425

[Gunnut 45/454]

Sharpshot
You found out exactly what I did with my 55gr Cast load. With IMR 4895 18.7 gr was and is the most accurate load with full function. Tried faster tried slower none show any better groups. At below 18.5 gr fucntion wasn't always 100%. When the shooter was up to it I could get the groups down to about 2.5" at 100 yards.

[grampa243]

well i have not yet shot for group yet, but i did a function test in my AR ran loads from 13-17 grains with IMR4198. using "ben's red" and aluminum checks. seated overall length 2.197
boolit sized to .2255


13 kicked out the shell but did not feed the next round. 14 - 17 all feed the next round and bolt went fully back after the last round.

all were stable in the 1in8 twist. no high pressure signs. gun has mid-length gas tube and Wylde chamber.

i loaded 10 more up with 14.4 grains of IMR4198 and shot a full mag. in a 3-gun practice from 50-100 yards they seam to shoot on par with my normal shooting.. and feed fine. no leading noted.

next batch will be for grouping.

up dated boolit size.

[Wayne S]

Do any of the owners of this mold have a rifle that you can stick one of your bullets into the muzzle ??
If so would you please do so till it meets resistance, turn it a few times marking th nose where it contacts the lands, then measure the distance from the mark to the top of the top driving band and PMing me with that measurment, or post a picture here ??

Thank you

[grampa243]

Do any of the owners of this mold have a rifle that you can stick one of your bullets into the muzzle ??
If so would you please do so till it meets resistance, turn it a few times marking th nose where it contacts the lands, then measure the distance from the mark to the top of the top driving band and PMing me with that measurment, or post a picture here ??

Thank you

the first driving band is the point of resistance.

[Wayne S]

Thanks, about what I thought, since it seams all .225's designed for AR use have their nose's small enough so as not to contact the rifling reguardless that AR chambers are designed with long throats to allow for trouble free functioning.

[cstrickland]

Thanks, about what I thought, since it seams all .225's designed for AR use have their nose's small enough so as not to contact the rifling reguardless that AR chambers are designed with long throats to allow for trouble free functioning.

I did this not long ago and do not remember it going to the band. let me do it again and see what happens, but I have samples of the 65 NATO not the HM2 mold

PM sent

[grampa243]

Thanks, about what I thought, since it seams all .225's designed for AR use have their nose's small enough so as not to contact the rifling reguardless that AR chambers are designed with long throats to allow for trouble free functioning.

i'm seating mine to touching or just off the rifling. the first driving band touches at 2.200 in my Wydle chamber..

[45 2.1]

Thanks, about what I thought, since it seams all .225's designed for AR use have their nose's small enough so as not to contact the rifling reguardless that AR chambers are designed with long throats to allow for trouble free functioning.


I did this not long ago and do not remember it going to the band. let me do it again and see what happens, but I have samples of the 65 NATO not the HM2 mold

cstrickland would be correct in his remembering for the Nato molds in Nato chambers from MiHec.

[AlaskanGuy]

82437I got my mold today here in Alaska..... I am NOT an AR shooter. I want to try these out on several bolt action 223's. my son shoots a savage inexpensive 223, and would love to cast a good target bullet for him to plink with at the range...... I also gunna try it out in a 22-250, and will post how it loads up there....

[AlaskanGuy]

I cast about 700 today. Got the mold working pretty great... One problem is, one of the pins on the bottom of the mold slid out...had a heck of a time getting it seated again... Afraid to damage my new baby.. But boolits came out fine... There were more culls then i was used to, as this is my first smaller cal mold.. Took a bit to get the bases figured out. But i am thrilled to finally get a 22cal mold... Would love to see some more load data....8243582436

[millerwb]

Loaded my first ones today. Am casting with a RCBS 55gr mold. As cast with WW and copper GC, they are averaging 60gr. Loaded 10 with 14.4gr H4198 and a small Dacron batting fill to take up space. Put a light crimp into the top band on the bullet. http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/09/23/ezate3ys.jpgWill load more this week going up in increments and hopefully test next weekend to see what my AR and Mini 14 like best.

[AlaskanGuy]

Your pic is way better then my ipad...lol

I will be testing in my savage bolt later this week after the boolits age a bit. What lube did you use? And how many culls were you getting with your mold? My savage is a 9 twister, so we shall see how it stabilizes....

[Wayne S]

AlaskaGuy,
What is your alloy used on the 225's ? You should have no problem with stabilization in the 1-9 Bbl. I'm not sure how long your bullet is, I know the NOE 70 RN is longer and my Savage shot them quite well on the first time out.
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?196431-Noe-225-70

[millerwb]

I had about 10-15% culls on the bullets. I have no idea on the lube. I inherited a lifetime supply. I know it is blue and has to be used with my Heated Lyman 450 sizer.

My AR is a 9 twist as well. I don't remember what the twist is on the Mini 14 right now.

[AlaskanGuy]

I was also hoping to try this in my 22-250... I am a bit worried about that one though, and will need to work out a load that will put the bullet around 2000 speed... I hope... It has a 12 twist. Any suggestions would be great...

[AlaskanGuy]

Here is a diagram of the boolet... This thread is the place to post our data based upon a mold developed by JT, of JTKnives. You could get one of these molds still if you wanted one.. They are 6 cavity.. And very very cool... 62 grain..... Just pm jt if you want one... And my alloy was range lead and WW.... Gets pretty hard... But i have no way to test.

82568

[grampa243]

AlaskaGuy,
What is your alloy used on the 225's ? You should have no problem with stabilization in the 1-9 Bbl. I'm not sure how long your bullet is, I know the NOE 70 RN is longer and my Savage shot them quite well on the first time out.
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?196431-Noe-225-70

my alloy is 9 lbs range lead with half a lbs of 95-5(tin/antimony)lead free solder added.

[Wayne S]

my alloy is 9 bls range lead with half a lbs of 95-5(tin/antimony)lead free solder added. The "lead calculator program shows that to be;
5.16% SN, 1.21 % SB, and 93.6 % Pb with a BHN of 11.2 Although your "range scrap" may vary from what the program shows.
More than enough tin for good fill out, if you haven't already, try smoking the mold with a "bic" or a B B Q lighting tool

[grampa243]

i loaded up 55 more to go run at the range.. i still have to group test. i'm thinking i'll check at 100 and 175 as that is the farthest at my range. i also am going to test 5 without gas-checks(just to see :))

the bases are clean and ready to be loaded.
82570sorry it's so dark

all loaded and wiped down. next stop the range for some real testing.
82569

[grampa243]

The "lead calculator program shows that to be;
5.16% SN, 1.21 % SB, and 93.6 % Pb with a BHN of 11.2 Although your "range scrap" may vary from what the program shows.
More than enough tin for good fill out, if you haven't already, try smoking the mold with a "bic" or a B B Q lighting tool

the range scrap had about 20% hard cast in it.

i have great fillout and release with HM2 molds and it's never has been or will be smoked. i find it beter to run at the right temp. then to smoke molds.

[AlaskanGuy]

I smoke my mold with a bic... A habit i guess... Mine drop fine, and fill out just fine considering the diameter of the bullet. But of course there are culls.... About 10% or so i think... I was also considering epoxy coating some of these to try that out.... See if that will work better for the 22-250.

[grampa243]

for rifle boolits i think 10% so a vary good cull rate.

[AlaskanGuy]

Well, something i haven't seen before... I was sizing mine and wanted to size some 224 and some 225.... I have never sized anything this small before.... I was using copper gas checks, and when i put them through the sizer, I ended up with some that little copper tails. I was using a lee sizer for both sizes.... I am wondering if the ones with tails are still gunna be ok to use.... Here is the pic.....

8273282731

[AlaskanGuy]

Also, with my savage i was wondering what i should be sizing to. I have a 224 and a 225 sizer. The gun has a 9 twist, bolt action and normally a very straight shooter with jacketed.... I am going to try the 2400... About 10 grains.. Should put me at somewhere between 1900 and 2000 fps, although i have no chrono. I hope to try something out this weekend... I also do not have a crimp die for this caliber .... Any suggestions?

[Cmm_3940]

Well, something i haven't seen before... I was sizing mine and wanted to size some 224 and some 225.... I have never sized anything this small before.... I was using copper gas checks, and when i put them through the sizer, I ended up with some that little copper tails. I was using a lee sizer for both sizes.... I am wondering if the ones with tails are still gunna be ok to use.... Here is the pic.....

8273282731


I had that happen.. The checks aren't feeding properly through the sizer and 'smearing' down the side of the ram. I wouldn't bother loading anything that unbalanced. Mine went back into the pot. If you look at the bottom of your Lee size die, you will see concentric tool marks or ridges around the cone that guides the boolit into the die. I solved this problem by polishing them out so the 'forcing cone' is smooth and shiny with nothing to catch the edges of the checks as the are pushed through. Also, make sure the checks are fully seated and straight before sizing.

[AlaskanGuy]

Wow.. You are right... I can see the ridges.... I have never seen that before, and this is the first time i have seen this especially right out of the box... I can prolly deal with this with a dremel.... Never had to before, any suggestions? Thanks so much for the quick post. :smile::smile:

[Cmm_3940]

Wow.. You are right... I can see the ridges.... I have never seen that before, and this is the first time i have seen this especially right out of the box... I can prolly deal with this with a dremel.... Never had to before, any suggestions? Thanks so much for the quick post. :smile::smile:

I used an appropriate blunt object with a small piece of 320 wet sand paper wrapped around it, followed by 600, followed by 1500. The butt end of a sharpie worked pretty well.

Edit:

that should be wet-sand paper, not wet sand paper.. the paper was dry.. :)

[Cmm_3940]

Cast from 50/50 COWW/Lino, with a splash of extra tin for luck :)

Loobed, checked, sized, and ready to experiment. Initial functionality test puts me around 17.5-18gr of AA#2230. Test bed is 22" 1-8" Wylde chamber.

http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd195/cm6259/hm2-226-62.jpg (http://s224.photobucket.com/user/cm6259/media/hm2-226-62.jpg.html)

[AlaskanGuy]

Very nice CMM... Can you tell me what kind of lube you are using??? Cant wait to hear how it goes.... Please post your results with the 2230...

[Cmm_3940]

I'm using White Label Carnauba Red. http://lsstuff.com

I initially tumble lubed in 40/40/20 to make sizing and seating GCs smoother, but sizing scraped most of that off.

All results with iron sights at 50 yds., I only have a 50 yd. range in my back yard. I do NOT consider myself a good shot with irons, but I don't have any optics on this rifle yet. I spent all my money building it. :roll:

To establish a baseline, here is 20 rds of Federal XM855:

82811

I started at 17.4 grains of AA2230 and went up in .2gr increments to 18.2gr, with best results around 17.8gr.

8279982800828018280382805

All rounds cycled the action. 18.0 and 18.2 locked the bolt back on empty. 17.8 locked the bolt back all the way 50% of the time, locked back but NOT all the way 50%. 17.6 and 17.4 locked the bolt back, but never all the way.

Rifle consists of a laundry list of industry parts suppliers (custom build)

DPMS lower
Midwest Industries billet upper
RRA 22" heavy stainless bbl., 1-8" twist, Wylde chamber, YHM Phantom Comp/Flash hider
A3 front/rear sights with KNS Precision .034 round front post
Les Baer Custom national match BCG
CMMG Lower parts kit, KNS Precision pins, Timney competition trigger
Magpul PRS stock, Blackhawk aluminum foregrip, NOT free-floated.
LWRC standard buffer tube, JP Enterprises tuned buffer spring, DPMS standard buffer.

Hope this helps for anyone interested in loading with 2230

Chris

[AlaskanGuy]

Anything new on this thread? Any new experiments?

[grampa243]

shot these today after work. it was a little windy but not to bad.

the 100yd group has a 2 inch spread and 2 inch drop below point of aim.

83395

the 175yd group has a 6.25 inch spread and 11.75 inch drop below point of aim.
83396

i did try some without checks at 50yd. they couldn't find their way to the paper.

but i made use of the same target with my 45% back-up sights. 5 shot group.
83399

[blueeyephil]

What is your load? I hope to shoot my first in the morning. But it will be up close to start with. I will be using Varget. I've powder coated my bullets and I'll probably try some with and without the gas checks.

[hamholfarm]

Blue,


Please post your load info when finished. Also whether you get cycling. What barrel length and twist are you using?
Gas or bolt gun?

Thanks

[grampa243]

What is your load? I hope to shoot my first in the morning. But it will be up close to start with. I will be using Varget. I've powder coated my bullets and I'll probably try some with and without the gas checks.

gun has mid-length gas tube and Wylde chamber. 1-in-8 twist 16 inch varmint barrel.

i'm loading 14.4 grains of IMR4198 and lubing with Ben's Red. checked with "338 RemUltraMag's" gas checks.

I think i'm going to work up the powder load a little more and see if it will shoot a little flatter.

[blueeyephil]

Arrrrgggg! Loading and shooting my powder coated or cast of these will have to wait until I can get a M expander or Lee universal expander. I made up a dummy round to check for OAL and decided to pull the bullet when I saw some shaving of pc. When I pulled it, mostly shining lead on the driving bands.

I'll report back down the road. I was looking forward to giving it a go.

[dkf]

Anyone using Ramshot Tac for .223 and cast boolits?

My local shop has an 8lb jug of TAC for $130 and am thinking of getting it. Don't have my mold yet.

[Cmm_3940]

Hodgdon and Lapua/Viht burn charts show it as very close to H4895. Others disagree, but I go with the Hodgdon chart since they make the stuff. It's a spherical powder. If you trickle or use a dispenser, it bounces and rolls all over the place. If you use a powder measure, it meters great. When I tried it, it seemed to perform about the same as all others that are similar, H335, A2230' N135, etc., etc. It went bang and all that. :)

[dkf]

I would actually prefer a spherical/ball powder vs stick because I plan to use a measure but really it is not a big deal.

I got a lb of each Varget and TAC which I will try. The 3 shops I looked did not have any CFE223 as I wanted to try that as well. TAC works well for jacketed .223 so I figure if it works well for cast I could buy the big jug of TAC, save some $$$, keep the # of different powders to a minimum and just keep a good stock on hand.

[Wayne S]

Anyone using Ramshot Tac for .223 and cast boolits?

My local shop has an 8lb jug of TAC for $130 and am thinking of getting it. Don't have my mold yet.

DKF,
Where is this shop located ??

[dkf]

DKF,
Where is this shop located ??

It is in PA

[mookiie]

Anyone loading these over unique?

[grampa243]

Anyone loading these over unique?

next powder to test :)

[sparkz]

Hi Guys, Do any of you have say 100 of these boolits you might sel or trade? I would like to try a few loads with these before i where to buy the mold, I was still up in air with this mild and trying for the milic that's running in GB now,
Pls PM me if you can / will part with a 100 or so posb. sized & Lubed,,

TIA
Patrick

[AlaskanGuy]

Grandpa243??? Can you help him out with this one?? I only have alox to lube with right now, and i am having an issue with my sizer in 225. There is a burr in it that is dragging on the gas check that i havent had a chance to fix yet....

[Wayne S]

AlaskenGuy,
What do yours drop at? ie "as cast" might try seating the GC by hand and either pan lubing or melting your lube in a small container like a metal 1/4 cup measuring cup, and hand dipping till you get your H&I die fixed

[AlaskanGuy]

Yea... Just havent had a chance to get it done..... Trying to get all of the stuff done before the first snows come.... Lots to do still, and the weather is getting ready to freeze up... I kinda put everything on hold for the next week or so till i get everything put away and finish getting the storm windows put back up..... After that, i will get my scope out and start shaving it away...

[grampa243]

Grandpa243??? Can you help him out with this one?? I only have alox to lube with right now, and i am having an issue with my sizer in 225. There is a burr in it that is dragging on the gas check that i havent had a chance to fix yet....

i maybe out of luck for a bit too :( I can only size to .227 now..
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?215888-I-may-have-ruined-a-Lee-sizer&p=2424018#post2424018

[wb_carpenter]

Would anyone be willing to part with say 50 bullets casted from this mold? I'd pay/trade for them.

Just want to try my hand before I invest in the mold.

[A pause for the COZ]

OOPS error. Posted in wrong forum. :oops:

[fcvan]

I have enjoyed reading on the progress folks have had with this boolit. I will likely add this mold to my stable. Currently, I am using the Lyman 225-415 55 gr sized to .225 over 14 grains of 4227. This has been a consistent performer in my Mini 14 and my brother's AR. A few months back, I started powder coating instead of lubing with BAC and that has since become my method of choice.

The 14 grain load worked well in that it fully cycled and locked back the actions on the AR and the Mini. I recently finished building my own AR (plain jane carbine, Model 1 sales) and had issues. After sighing in with 20 rounds of factory I switched to my reloads. The first 40 or so wouldn't cycle. After that it started cycling more consistently. By about 100 rounds I had full function. I don't think I've ever broken in a new semi rifle and didn't really think about that. Next weekend I will put more rounds downrange and then breaking in my wife's AR build.

I think the boolit from the JT mold will be a good candidate for the powder coating and I hope to get that in the near future.

[AlaskanGuy]

Finally got around to fixing my sizing die at .224 for my bolt action savage with a 1 in 9 twist. Today i am gunna try 4064 i think.. I will start with 20gr and work up to maybe 24 or 25 gr and see what is what as i have a lot of 4064... Anybody else try 4064 yet??

[runfiverun]

just treat the 4064 like a slow batch of 4895.

there is nothing wrong with using 227 as a final diameter.
in a short while i'm going to order a new 227 sizer [for 2 of my AR's] and a couple of other sizers for some other calibers.

[AlaskanGuy]

Well... I tried to 4064 and no joy.... Stuff was all over the place... Not grouping at, all most were hitting the paper at 50 yards with 24 grains, but lots of lost boolits with 23, 22, and 21... I used the ladder up to 24 and was pretty bummed considering i have about 18 lbs of 4064..

24 grains
85279

22 grains
85280
Any ideas on where to go from here fiver?? I was hoping to use 4064 to try on the 22-250 as well.....

At least my time at the range wasn't a total bummer. I picked up this stuff while i was playing... :bigsmyl2:
85281

[AlaskanGuy]

Ok... On with the quest.....

Trying unique.... Starting with 6 gr.... And laddering up to 9gr. I am also trying some aluminum gas checks for the first time with the 223.... I did not use filler in the 223 case. Don't think it needs it... But we shall see... Just looking for groupings with my bolt action with 1 in 9 twist.... Wish me luck... Grandpa was gunna test this, but haven't heard anything... So here i go..

[AlaskanGuy]

Well, back from the range... Much better with the Unique..... Shows promise.... Here are the pics
85349
85350
85351
85352
85353
85354
85355
85356
85357

Is this similar to what your getting with unique grandpa? Unique is what i am gunna play with for this rifle for a bit... It shows way more promise then 4064 so far. Might even try with the wife's 22-250..

Alaskan

[grampa243]

i didn't get to the Unique yet. i did shoot some of the .227 sized boolits with the IMR4198 load and it seams ok so. hoping to test more this week.

then it's time to get ready for deer season. so the little boolits may have to wait for awhile.

[runfiverun]

some tips for the 4064. [back the load down to 18 grs and add a tuft of Dacron if this starts looking good omit the Dacron and replace it with the same weight of powder then try again with the dacron]
the first trick to 223 accuracy is you gotta sort and cull the boolits ruthlessly. [look at them like they owe you money and it's payday]
I weight sort into .1 gr weight groups. [I can generally get the middle of a run to drop my boolits within a .3gr weight distribution and i'm casting them to have rounded bases on the gas check]
I also take care with my brass getting the cases out to the end of the chamber, and sweating the anneal, I don't want the necks too soft but almost hard.
i'm also picky about neck tension [I use .0015], and case thickness [the thickness is to hold the boolit in the centerline of the barrel as close as I can]

once those few things are done then you start load development and changing your alloy will help too.
I started with linotype and kept cutting it down until I got close to my 4/6/90 alloy I use, then just went to that.
I am thinking on cutting that back with soft lead a tick more in the future.
ww's alone are too soft even when water dropped or heat treated for the stress the ar places on the boolit.
if nothing else try a 2.5/3/94.5 [ww's with tin added] alloy and water drop into ICY cold water from the mold.
allow the boolits some time to completely stabilize from casting them and stuff.
I like to wait 6 or more months for my 30 cal boolits I push to @ 2400 in the 10 twist 308 to stabilize before I shoot them.
a bit over a month will be good enough for the testing stages though.

[AlaskanGuy]

Nice... Thanks for the tips fiver.... I will reexamine my stuff with the 4064. The case is so small that i did not think the filler would be needed... I have not played with fillers before, but when i started playing with unique, i was wondering if it would be necessary. Now i gotta run out and try to find some dacron. Dont have much for supplies around here... I need to find a pillow that uses it... Will tissue or cotton ball work as filler??

Thanks for keeping an eye on this thread fiver.... It really helps to have a designer watch over his design and throw a few tips out there...

Alaskan

[Wayne S]

AG,
Don't know about cotton, the bulk might work as it would be fluffier that cotton balls, I've also herd of using dryer "lent", the stuff that come out of the trap.
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?109280-The-proper-use-of-fillers

[mookiie]

@ runfiverun - how would I get the mixture you are using for 223 with lead/Linotype mixture? I am currently using 1 lb lead to 1 lb Linotype.

[runfiverun]

50-50 [lino and lead] and 2% more tin. [makes 4/6/90]
in the old day's when things were cheap I would buy store bought cast and add the tin.
now day's it's cheaper for me to buy linotype at our local print shop.
I can also get super close by mixing ww's 3 to one to linotype and adding about 2.0% tin.

stuffing from a stuffed animal works too.
I have tried the t/p and it sucks so do cotton balls.
some of my loads use dryer lint I grab when we do levi's or towels the lint seems to just blow apart at the muzzle and looks like snow. [a little dog hair doesn't hurt anything/never tried cat hair]
it does leave the bore a bit dryer and interacts with the lube a bit.

[AlaskanGuy]

I have pleanty of dryer lint lol.... Does it matter what i dry? Were you being serious about the levi's and towels or can i just use dryer lint from my wife's lacy panties..:kidding: Lol... Any lint should work right??

[Hamish]

REGARDING THE USE OF DRYER LINT IN YOUR FIREARMS:

Last year I was trying the dryer lint trick with 7.65x54R, in the 1600fps range. Twice I ended up with a chihuahaha turd stuck in case. The powder burnt AROUND the lint. YMMV, of course, but, I'm done with it.

(It does look funny as he** ploofing out of the barrel, especially with low velocity, low report loads.)

[runfiverun]

I never tried the lint with low end loads, every time I have tried it I was up in the 2200 fps plus area.
maybe the dog hair helped [shrug] but I did fill the case with it and not try to just fluff it out like Dacron.
I don't think it really matters what you dry to get it, I just wanted something semi-consistent.

[AlaskanGuy]

Tomorrow, i am gunna head out and try fivers advice with the 4064 at 18 grains with a tuff of dacron now that some magically arrived at my post office box thanks to a very nice guy that will remain nameless (Wayne)..... I will see if the filler does the trick... I will start at 18 and move up the ladder a few grains with the dacron to hold the powder in position...

Thanks again Wayne.:drinks:

[grampa243]

98066

so i was at the range Saturday.. is was about 38 deg. out had a little feeding trouble with the last round from the mag. i'm thinking maybe my load is to light for the temp.??

i guess more testing is in order.

other wise they are shooting fine..

[Cmm_3940]

Grampa243,

I noticed the same thing when the temperature dropped in the fall. I figured it was likely due to thickening gun grease. I'm using Lubriplate SFL-O on the BCG. Since we are already on the borderline of accuracy/function, this will probably be an issue.

[upnorthwis]

Might want to give 20 gr. AA2520 a try. In my 1:9 twist with WW 22-055FP RCBS I get 2360 fps, reliable function, and good accuracy. Temp was 10 degrees.

[A pause for the COZ]

I have done a little bit of work with these so far. Unfortunately its been to darn cold to get any real results.
So far I am getting my best performance with strait cast using about 18.5 gr of Varget.
With the Powder coated I have had fair results pushing them harder with H335. Still to early to tell 100% Need a few range trips.
But accuracy was very good with the 1st 25 I tried.

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d66/Kelly2215/101_9117_zps9c79b372.jpg

[grampa243]

Grampa243,

I noticed the same thing when the temperature dropped in the fall. I figured it was likely due to thickening gun grease. I'm using Lubriplate SFL-O on the BCG. Since we are already on the borderline of accuracy/function, this will probably be an issue.

maybe i'll run the bolt group dry and see what happens in the cold.

[grampa243]

98066

so i was at the range Saturday.. is was about 38 deg. out had a little feeding trouble with the last round from the mag. i'm thinking maybe my load is to light for the temp.??

i guess more testing is in order.

other wise they are shooting fine..

by adding 1 more grain of powder things work fine.

i'm going to try tumble lubing the next batch i load with 45/45/10

[grampa243]

i'm going to try tumble lubing the next batch i load with 45/45/10

i loaded 100 rounds lubed with 45/45/10

lets just say after not getting any grouping at 100 and 50 yards

i shot this groups at ten yards
114614

as you can see some are going sideways. i guess i'll stick with ben's red. :)

[pacomdiver]

any new news? im the owner of a hm2 62g mold

[louism]

Bumping this up to see if anyone has done any more with the bullet

[Patricklaw]

i loaded 100 rounds lubed with 45/45/10

lets just say after not getting any grouping at 100 and 50 yards

i shot this groups at ten yards
114614

as you can see some are going sideways. i guess i'll stick with ben's red. :)


Tumble lube means that the bullets tumble BEFORE you load them. haha

I've Pc'd mine and pushed up to 2550 but couldn't find any paper at 50 yards. Gas checks helped immensely.

Currently mine are PC'd (yellow HF shake 'n bake 2x, cure at 400 for 20 min) over a case full of 7383, ~23 gr, with a gas check, I managed about 3" at 100 yards from my Remington Sportsman 78, 1:12 i think.

I'm sure I'd do better with faster powder and slower velocity. But I can still buy .223 bullets, even green tip, so I'll be devoting my cast bullet time to larger bores.