.357 mag speed estimate

[JWFilips]

Hi Guys,
Just wonder if anyone would have an estimate on FPS for a .357 mag load of 158 gr SWC-TL boolit over 13.5 grains of Alliant 2400 ( or 13 or 14 gr for that matter ) Just trying to get an approximate speed since I have no chrono. Oh Yeah That would be out of a 6 inch barrel S&W Pre-27
Thanks

[Beerd]

kinda depends on the firearm.
my guess is around 1300 ft/sec
what does the reloading data from Alliant say?
..

[Outpost75]

Here are data for a .357 "starting" load, do not reduce with #2400:

10.0 grs. #2400, Federal .357 cases, Federal 100 primers, Remington 158 -gr. .358" LSWC, OAL 1.55"

Ruger SP101 2" 933, 15 Sd - Accurate, approximates .38 Spl. +P+ LE in .357 case
Ruger GP100 4" 1101, 20 Sd - Accurate, shoots to fixed sights in service gun
Marlin 1894C 20" 1369, 11 Sd - keyholes in Microgroove barrel

11.0 grs. #2400
Ruger SP101 2" 989, 34 SD - Less accurate than 10 grs.

For comparison, full-charge jacketed load:

Winchester 158 JHP, Federal case, F200 (use heavier cup primer for full mag loads!), 14.7 grs. #2400

Ruger SP101 2" 1119, 16 Sd - nasty in the snubby
Ruger GP100 4" 1216, 20 Sd - good full load
Marlin 1894C 20" 1719, 29 Sd - JHP overdriven for deer load with this bullet, use JSP bullet in rifle

[swheeler]

This data was shot from a 4 5/8" RBH, RP brass with cci 550 primers, bullet was Lee 158SWC Horn gascheck, they weigh 167 gr lubed and checked

12.5 gr Hercules 2400= 1199 fps
13.0 =1270
13.5 =1301 (sticky ext)

[357mags]

More importantly is there any leading, as these loads are at, or near max!

[swheeler]

zero-14 bhn- sized just over throat dia- notes show accurate at 12.5 and 13

[Ed_Shot]

Using Lyman 358156 w/GC I get 1275 fps using Alliant 2400 13.5gr in my Ruger Security Six 6". The same load gets 1640 fps in my Marlin 1894C. Very accurate load in both.

[JWFilips]

Well with my 13.5 grain load of 2400 & the Lee 158 SWC-TL ( 45/45/10 recluse formula) I'm getting nice groups at 50 yards off a rest. Some leading towards the end of the barrel but nothing to cry about ( cleans up easily) Just wanted to get an idea where the speed was at ( BHN about 11/12)

[swheeler]

Well with my 13.5 grain load of 2400 & the Lee 158 SWC-TL ( 45/45/10 recluse formula) I'm getting nice groups at 50 yards off a rest. Some leading towards the end of the barrel but nothing to cry about ( cleans up easily) Just wanted to get an idea where the speed was at ( BHN about 11/12)

JW they are fastnuff, most times I would say leading is due to non fit, but in your case I would guess the lube is about gave up. If accuracy holds up to your standards and you can clean up easy enough, go for it. Maybe a double coat of your recluse would stop all leading, the way I like em, clean em every 5k whether they need it or not;)

[JWFilips]

JW they are fastnuff, most times I would say leading is due to non fit, but in your case I would guess the lube is about gave up. If accuracy holds up to your standards and you can clean up easy enough, go for it. Maybe a double coat of your recluse would stop all leading, the way I like em, clean em every 5k whether they need it or not;)

Well believe me I have worked very hard on getting this gun to shoot cast boolits. ( This gun is the reason I started casting! I was having a normal life until this one got into the family and all the casting illness ...as my wife calls it ....took over) Throats are out there at .359" so I finally settled on a .360" ( what my mold drops ) unsized, boolit. Got my target loadings pretty sweet with BE & unique) so I went on to testing a heavy loads Something nice for 50 yd critter getter, & move up to 2400. I may just give a go at some of these suggested lower loadings to see how they shoot since I started at 13 grs. The problem I had with most of the published data & reloading books is that the speeds were all over the place for the same load ( many times the barrel length is not listed). I'm not trying to get a specific speed just trying to get an idea where this load is at since it shoots really nice Thanks

[fecmech]

I have found in my revolver and rifle that while your 2400 load is very good, max loads of 296/H110 are better and less prone to lead. If you have any, give it a try.

[Outpost75]

I've learned over the years that the proper way to work up loads is by shooting groups on paper.

NOT by firing rounds over a chronograph.

The chronograph is useful to establish what a load does, once you determine that it is a GOOD one, so that you have a benchmark set of parameters as targets to replicate those results when you change lots of powder or primers.

Lyman's so-called "accuracy" loads in their manuals are those which gave the most uniform pressure and velocity. While ballistic uniformity is desired, it is not the sole determining factor in accuracy.

Three shot groups tell you virtually nothing. Five shot groups tell you something, if you shoot enough of them to assess the trend. William C. Davis, Jr., who used to run the small caliber lab at Frankford Arsenal published in American Rifleman in the Handloader's Guide that it takes 25 consecutive rounds, without disregarding anything, to get a high confidence of what a load is doing. That's when you do it like the Army does, measuring the x, and y coordinates of every shot, discarding nothing, then calculating the center of impact or CI, than measuring the distance of each shot from the CI to calculate the vertical, horizontal and radial linerar standard deviations, then determining whether the dispersion is "circular normal," in which the vertical, horizontal and radial standard deviations are approximately equal.

Doing the above is a real pain in the butt unless you have a to scale TV monitor connected to an electronic target system with touch sensitive screeen to enter the data, or acoustic rod accuracy sensors like they use for weapon acceptance.

Me, I like firing ten-shot groups. Homer Culver, General Hatcher and Col. E.H. Harrison all agreed,

"there are no 'lucky' ten-shot groups."

If you get a nice round 10-shot group in which 6 or more of 10-shots are in a nice central cluster and the remainder are evenly distributed and taken in total produce an extreme spread less than double the group size of the central cluster, you just may want to chronograph that load, you are onto something!

If you find any 7.62 NATO Ball ammunition which shoots 200-yard groups like this from a scoped target rifle firing from a prone supported sandbagged position, you should buy it ALL!

75156

[rhead]

Outpost I agree to a point that a three shot group tells you virtually nothing with the exception that a Good three shot group tell you nothing. I have shot three shot groups that told me all i wanted to know about that load.
(If the first three shots have a six inch spread and one keyhole the next seven are not likely to improve it. If I testing several loads I will fire a series of three shot groups to screen out the dogs and then load ten of those that passed muster. I do have the luxury of a private range and can reload at the bench.

[swheeler]

I've learned over the years that the proper way to work up loads is by shooting groups on paper.

NOT by firing rounds over a chronograph.

The chronograph is useful to establish what a load does, once you determine that it is a GOOD one, so that you have a benchmark set of parameters as targets to replicate those results when you change lots of powder or primers.

Lyman's so-called "accuracy" loads in their manuals are those which gave the most uniform pressure and velocity. While ballistic uniformity is desired, it is not the sole determining factor in accuracy.

Three shot groups tell you virtually nothing. Five shot groups tell you something, if you shoot enough of them to assess the trend. William C. Davis, Jr., who used to run the small caliber lab at Frankford Arsenal published in American Rifleman in the Handloader's Guide that it takes 25 consecutive rounds, without disregarding anything, to get a high confidence of what a load is doing. That's when you do it like the Army does, measuring the x, and y coordinates of every shot, discarding nothing, then calculating the center of impact or CI, than measuring the distance of each shot from the CI to calculate the vertical, horizontal and radial linerar standard deviations, then determining whether the dispersion is "circular normal," in which the vertical, horizontal and radial standard deviations are approximately equal.

Doing the above is a real pain in the butt unless you have a to scale TV monitor connected to an electronic target system with touch sensitive screeen to enter the data, or acoustic rod accuracy sensors like they use for weapon acceptance.

Me, I like firing ten-shot groups. Homer Culver, General Hatcher and Col. E.H. Harrison all agreed,

"there are no 'lucky' ten-shot groups."

If you get a nice round 10-shot group in which 6 or more of 10-shots are in a nice central cluster and the remainder are evenly distributed and taken in total produce an extreme spread less than double the group size of the central cluster, you just may want to chronograph that load, you are onto something!

If you find any 7.62 NATO Ball ammunition which shoots 200-yard groups like this from a scoped target rifle firing from a prone supported sandbagged position, you should buy it ALL!

75156

I think if you read post number 8 you will see he has shot the load for accuracy(your on paper) and continue reading you will see he was just interested in approx speed.