.22LR to .223 rechamber worth it?

[Lonegun1894]

I have a 14" .22LR, which IIRC has a 15 or 16" twist. Now, I have a 10" .22LR also, so I am not about to leave myself without a .22LR. Anyway, the factory .223 has a 1:12" twist, and, at least based on what I have read, is best left with 60gr bullets and lighter. Here is what I am thinking. Since we here often actually prefer a slower twist than what factories offer, this could be the perfect candidate to be rechambered to .223 for use with cast. Now my only current .22 mold is the 55gr Lee Bator. Would this be a worthwhile conversion, or would I be better off to sell it and use the funds for a .223 with the 1:12 twist? I have been thinking this could go one of two ways. I would get great performance and be kicking ,myself for not doing it sooner, or I would ruin a perfectly good barrel and end up with something that will not stabilize much of anything, regardless of how light weight it is. Does anyone have a way of telling if this barrel would stabilize much of anything, and if so, maybe an idea of what my useable weight range would be? Or am I just overthinking this and wasting time and possibly money if I go ahead with this project?

[bruce drake]

Ok, you are going to have a serious issue if you convert just about any 22LR rifle to a 223 Remington cartridge. First, the firing pin is set for rimfire and not centerfire, which will require an offset firing pin with a rebushed firing pin hole on the bolt as well. Secondly, the bore of the 22LR is .222 and not .223 so the pressure is going to spike higher off the smaller bore. And Thirdly and most importantly, you are converting from a 24,000 PSI cartridge to a 55,000 PSI cartridge with an unknown rifle which could easily be made from pot-metal alloy which adds to your potential for making a timebomb set to blow in your face.

You might want to recheck your credentials in your signature line before you take that 22LR off to the gunsmith for the new chambering.

Bruce

[Lonegun1894]

Bruce,
First off, I am an idiot as I could have sworn that I had said that this was an idea for a TC Contender barrel, and second, thank you for making me REread my own post and realize that I am in fact an idiot for having managed to leave that VERY IMPORTANT piece of the equation out. Thank you for catching this.

Now that this is cleared up. The Contender has a dual firing pin, as everyone here knows, made to fire both rimfire and centerfire ammo. It is also offered as a .223, among many other calibers, as a factory chambering, so unless a different, read "weaker", steel is used in the rimfire barrels, I should have no problems. Ok, so my main concern remains weather or not the twist in the .22 LR barrel is fast enough to stabilize a 55ish grain boolit.

And once again, Bruce, thank you for pointing out that I left out the specific weapon I was considering doing with this. I would NOT do this with anything built for rimfire ammo only, as I would not trust the action to be strong enough to handle this safely, however, the Contender is strong enough to handle many calibers which go well above and beyond anything the average .22LR firearm was ever intended to handle. Talk about feeling like an idiot. Maybe I should be going to bed instead of thinking tonight. I knew what I meant, but it just didn't make it from my brain to the keyboard, which doesn't do the rest of you any good.

[Lloyd Smale]

cant say for sure but would guess youd have problems stablilizing anything over 35-40 grain.

[Shooter]

I would slug the bore. Some .22LR are .221, this might cause a problem if someone fired a jacketed .224 bullet in it.

[country gent]

For years home gunsmiths /machinists have taken used rimfire barrels and used h=them for 22 hornet and 298 bee conversions on other rifles, I cant count the number of martini cadet actions with win 75 or 52 on the them in those 2 calibers. They are 222 bore instead of 224 but sierra and hornady made make a 222 bullet for them and the old hornets that are this bore. My Hornet an older savage23d is 14 twist and will shoot up to 45 grn bullets very accuratly. 50s arnt to bad but after that things go down hill fast. The added velocity of the 223 might help this a little. You would need to rechamber to .223 ( which chamber there are many) Find or make the correct extractor ( should be available as contendrs were made in this caliber also). On the contendr I see no issues with saftey or strength for this conversion, other than adding bore dia to barrel legend with new caliber so anyone in the future knows what this is. The hornet is a sweet little round with low report and recoil most were 14 twist as most rimfires are 16 twist. I believe you will be limited to 40 grn bullets or so with it though. Or bullets of approximatly that length.

[Nobade]

Yep, 40 gr. is about max for a 1:16 to stabilize. Also might want to do a hardness check to make sure the 22LR barrel is made out of the same steel as the centerfire ones. A LOT of 22LR barrels are made from 12L14, and it would be very unwise to chamber them to a high intensity cartridge. If it were me, I would buy or trade for a 223 barrel instead of rechambering that one. You may not even be able to get a 223 extractor and spring any more, depending on the state of TC's service department now. I have been trying to get muzzle loader parts from them and they don't answer their phone or email.

-Nobade

[NVScouter]

Want to swap that 22LR for a 223 barrel and call it done?

[boltaction308]

I consider this a very bad idea. Typically a 22LR barrel has a major bore diameter of .223 and a .223 barrel has a major diameter of .224. Also a .22 LR barrel is not going to be as strong as a .223 barrel. It could eventually rupture. Even if YOU are very careful not to put high power loads in it, someday someone will, maybe even your own kids.

[NVScouter]

I consider this a very bad idea. Typically a 22LR barrel has a major bore diameter of .223 and a .223 barrel has a major diameter of .224. Also a .22 LR barrel is not going to be as strong as a .223 barrel. It could eventually rupture. Even if YOU are very careful not to put high power loads in it, someday someone will, maybe even your own kids.

Many 223 have been built on the .223 bore, also Contender barrels are the same stock of the same generation.

[bruce drake]

I just would not want to hear you had accident with your "new" rifle. I can't let a fellow Marine do that to himself. And you are correct that most Contenders would safely handle a tank round if they let us chamber a barrel for one! ;)

Bruce

[colt1960]

Why not sell the 22lr barrel and buy a .223 barrel. A .223 barrel is very common and easy to find. It would be alot more simple and less hassle. Rick!

[Outpost75]

Agree swapping or selling the barrel for the one you want is best option.

I don't know what steel or heat treatment they use in their rimfire barrels vs. centerfires, but it is common practice in the industry to use a less expensive, non-heated barstock for rimfire barrels, than is used for centerfires. I don't know if that is the case here, but the safe course is to leave the. 22LR barrel alone and not rechamber it for a much higher pressure round, which could present safety issues. The. 22 Hornet might be OK, but if a swap is possible, I'd go for it.

[uscra112]

I wouldn't bother doing .223, because even a 14" barrel isn't long enough to burn all the powder unless you do reduced loads. I'd do a K-Hornet or .218 Bee, instead. (Full disclosure, my K-Hornet Gen 1 is a peach!)

Owing a fleet of pre-WW2 .22 Lovells as I do, I gotta say that the difference in groove diameter makes precious little difference, so long as you recognize that pressures will be a bit higher in the smaller barrels. ALL of my Lovells are made on .22 rimfire barrels, except one C.C.Johnson reline which is .224. In the heyday of the Lovell, they were loading to outrageous pressures, too. Some loads ran well past 55,000 psi. Nobody blew up a barrel, as far as I have read. They did loosen a lot of primers, though.

If you load 'em hot, the 16" twist Lovells will shoot 50 grain J-warts. If you don't, ya gotta stay below 45 grains. I mostly shoot 40 grain Hornet bullets in mine, at Hornet velocities.

I wouldn't trade for somebody else's .223 - what you'll likely get is one that didn't shoot. Why else would it be for sale/trade?

[FLHTC]

Id make it a fireball and wouldn't think twice. You can always load it down to Hornet or Bee velocities

[nanuk]

those of you suggesting a TRADE for a 223 barrel, do you have any suggestions where to find one in 1/16, as this was WHY the OP is considering rechambering a 22RF.....

or perhaps no one read the first post?

[NVScouter]

Well I shoot the 55g bator in mine just fine. I just haven't had the 357 herrett barrel off it in a long time. Why blow a 22 round at vermin when a 125-170g cast HP works better?

I think that was what he asked with the twist comment. He never asked about special heavy molds just the Bator since he has it.

[Lonegun1894]

I was mostly concerned about the twist, but the pressure concerns are valid too. I mean, we use cast boolits, and often at reduced velocity, so reduced pressure. The way I see it, just because it would be rechambered to .223, doesn't mean I couldn't load it to .22 Hornet performance level, or even less, depending on performance achieved. But with the slow twist, I would have to make sure to drive the boolit fast enough to stabilize it also, if it is even possible to get there with the slow twist on a .22LR. So there are several possible issues I would be facing, and why I asked those here who know much more about this and the problems I would be facing. I mean, I can load it down, but may not get the required velocity for stability, or load it up, as long as I stay within safe pressure limits. In the end, it would be better to just get a .223 with it's 1:12" twist, but then it would be more boring and predictable, and while success would be pretty much assured, that also makes it more boring since it is a sure thing. And I figure we learn by experimenting. As to reaching out further with an easier caliber, I have a .30 Herrett, which is probably a bit better for most of my uses, and just seems to love 150gr cast boolits, but I have already gone down that road and then got to thinking about a slow twist .223 and the possibilities and limitations. I know y'all understand the curiosity aspect of it. I know there's limitations to everything, I just don't know where they are sometimes. I mean, I have read of, for example, .44 Mag usually being 1:16" to 1:22", but then there's some that were made with a 1:38" twist, like the H&R, some Marlins,and IIRC, some Winchesters. If such a wide range works for one caliber, then why would it not work in a .223. I mean, I know there's reasons why things are done one way as opposed to another, but there's a curiosity of what happens if...? Make sense?

[Kermit1945]

Sometimes I think people who want to rechamber "on the edge" should agree to only shoot when totally alone, agree to never it sell to anyone, and leave instructions in their will that the barrel/gun be destroyed at their death. It's often pointed out that the person doing the modification may keep loads safe, but when it passes to other ownership, all bets are off.

[Lonegun1894]

Although I think that the only part of this that is "on the edge" is the extra slow twist, I can't say I disagree with your assessment as to making sure it never goes to anyone who may not follow the same advice regarding safety. I think y'all have pretty much convinced me to not do this and just get a .223 barrel instead. 1:12" ROT should be slow enough.

[John Taylor]

I thought I would clear something up here. The reason most rifle barrels in 44 caliber have a 1 in 36" or 1 in 38" is because the barrel is longer and the results of higher velocity from the longer barrel allow a slower twist for those old short 44 bullets. Winchester has gone all over the place with twist rates over the years. I had a 50 EX barrel come in that had a 1 in 60" twist. The book says 1 in 56" for this cartridge but the later barrels had 1 in 48". Most of the old express barrels had a very slow twist and short bullets, they were trying to get high velocity out of a black powder rifle. Winchester also used 22LR barrels for their 22 Hornet with the 1 in 16" twist and a .223" groove diameter.
My thoughts on the 223 is that there would be a lot of room for powder for a lead bullet. After seeing a rifle blow up from detonation cause by a light load in a large case I would be concerned about this. The 223 on a contender is great for long range & high velocity out of a pistol, I had one and really liked it.

[nicholst55]

Why not sell the 22lr barrel and buy a .223 barrel. A .223 barrel is very common and easy to find. It would be alot more simple and less hassle. Rick!

^^This^^ Infinitely safer, too.

[quilbilly]

Since it is a Contender and all the twist possibilities notwithstanding, you might consider the 222 instead since it has that nice long neck that can be so friendly to cast boolits.

[leadman]

I had a Contender 21" barrel rechambered by Gary Reeder to 22 K-Hornet. It will stabilize a 50gr .224" bullet with no problems. I shoot a Lyman 44gr RN GC .225" boolit in it and have attained 3,000 fps in this barrel. This was just to see if I could do it, normal loads are from 1,400 fps to 2,500 or so.
Been shooting it for over 15 years and it is still going strong.
I should try a 55gr and a 64gr jacketed bullet just to see what happens. Maybe next week.
I would not be concerned about rechambering your Contender barrel.

[Tatume]

I wouldn't bother doing .223, because even a 14" barrel isn't long enough to burn all the powder unless you do reduced loads.

My 10" 223 Remington Contender barrel makes 2800 fps with the Sierra 50 gr Blitz and 21.5 gr H4198. There is no downside that I'm aware of; no muzzle flash, no unburned powder, and accuracy is good. The barrel is for sale too, if anyone makes a reasonable offer.

Take care, Tom

[45-70 Chevroner]

Bruce,
First off, I am an idiot as I could have sworn that I had said that this was an idea for a TC Contender barrel, and second, thank you for making me REread my own post and realize that I am in fact an idiot for having managed to leave that VERY IMPORTANT piece of the equation out. Thank you for catching this.

Now that this is cleared up. The Contender has a dual firing pin, as everyone here knows, made to fire both rimfire and centerfire ammo. It is also offered as a .223, among many other calibers, as a factory chambering, so unless a different, read "weaker", steel is used in the rimfire barrels, I should have no problems. Ok, so my main concern remains weather or not the twist in the .22 LR barrel is fast enough to stabilize a 55ish grain boolit.

And once again, Bruce, thank you for pointing out that I left out the specific weapon I was considering doing with this. I would NOT do this with anything built for rimfire ammo only, as I would not trust the action to be strong enough to handle this safely, however, the Contender is strong enough to handle many calibers which go well above and beyond anything the average .22LR firearm was ever intended to handle. Talk about feeling like an idiot. Maybe I should be going to bed instead of thinking tonight. I knew what I meant, but it just didn't make it from my brain to the keyboard, which doesn't do the rest of you any good.

I don't think you are an idiot at all the 14" was a dead give away for a TC. All though I don't think it would be a good conversion because of the comments above. For one "too slow of a twist" and the 22LR is .221diameter. Slug the barrel first. What make is the 10" if it is a Contender barrel it will probably have a 1 in 14" twist. It might work as a cast boolit shooter in 223 using 35 to 60 gr. boolits.

[DCM]

Want to swap that 22LR for a 223 barrel and call it done?

This would seem to be the best and most sensible option offered yet IMHO.

[Forrest r]

I can see both sides of the fence on this one & a couple of things come to mind.

If it was a stainless bbl I would consider it, blue steel, no.
A 1 in 16 twist has a hard time stabilizing heavy boolits, Aguila makes a heavy 22lr bullet (60gr) that will tumble in most 1 in 16 bbl's. They make a special 1 in 9 bbl in 22lr just to shoot that heavy 60gr boolit.
Between me & my brother we've owned 4 contender 223 bbl's, all of them had extremely loooooooong throats in them. Both the ones I had I couldn't even extend a 55gr bullet (pull downs/hornady psp's/remington psp's/winchester fmj's & psp's/dogtown fmj's) to even think about engraving the riflings in them. 1 I bought used, the other a 14" bll, I bought new. So cutting your own chamber would be a plus.