Ruger No1 in 416 Rigby.

[Four Fingers of Death]

I have an oportunity to buy one of these complete with factory ammo, cases, dies, etc for a hundred dollars or so dearer than reballelling and smithing my old M17 sporter (I was going to choose 458WM or Lott) and I will still have the M17, which will make a nice 355Whelan with little or no smithing work apart from the rebarrelling.

It will be used for cast boolit hunting and competing in Dangerous Game Rifle matches mostly and maybe for the occasional blasting a milk jug into obvlivion or that sort of thing.

Any tips for this rifle? What's a good mould for hunting and another for plinking.

I don't know the bore size. Is it the same as the40cal pistols?

[dubber123]

Mick, I think the bores actually .416", a good bit bigger than the 40 pistols. BruceB on this forum has had good luck with RCBS's 350 grain mould, I believe getting it under 1" at 100yds. I have a CZ in this cal., but I haven't gotten any cast down the bore yet. Factory loads are $$$$, and their performance can be improved upon quite a bit, if so desired.

[Bullshop]

G'Day Mick
Last fall I had a chance to try one of those #1's in 416 R. A customer that had drawn a permit for kodiak island to take a brown bear was the owner. He wanted me to work out a good bear load for it. I worked out two loads for it, one for practice and one for hunting. The practice load was with an NEI boolit in the 400gn DD design at 2000 fps. The hunting load was with the Hornady 400 interbond at about 2400. I had also tried the Nosler 400gn partition but it didnt shoot nearly as good as the Hornady. The Hornady bullet was incredibly accurate.
Out of the box the rifle would string verticle for 6" or more. What I did was to relieve some contact between the butt of the fore end where it contacts the front of the receiver. Also put a shim between the fore end hanger and the barrel. After that it would keep three shots almost touching at 100 yards.
He shot this with confidance and did take a very nice bear that was pictured in this years fish and game reg's book.
I just recently aquired a #1 in 416 Rem but this rifle has not given any of the problems I encountered the the Rigby chambered rifle. The Rem cartridge is not as impresive looking but is is much easier to come by for brass. It can be made from any of the full length belted brass.
Cheers
BIC/BS

[BruceB]

Yep, I sure do like the RCBS 416-350 design.

Cast from my wheelweight alloy, the bullets run around 365 grains with VERY little variation. As with many RCBS designs, it casts just a tad on the small side at .416" or so. My RCBS .417" sizer die just cleans up the mould parting-line on the bullet. Even so, it has shot well from my #1 at speeds from 1100 fps to 2700 fps. The softpoint hunting load (pure lead nose, harder shank) groups three rounds in 1.5" from 100 yards, muzzle speed 2100 fps. This is ample speed and accuracy for most big game, and the load was NOT exhaustively researched....it could possibly be considerably improved.

I now have two Rigby loads awaiting a range trip; these use my NEI 421-390 .404 Jeffery bullet sized down from .421" to .417". Actual weight is very close to 400 grains, and I expect to do a fair bit of experimenting with this bullet in the .416.

AA5744 powder has been working very well in my Ruger, so much so that I've not used many other powders very extensively. 45 to 55 grains gives velocities in the 1800-2100 fps range. I use dacron fill in all my 5744 loads. IMR 4831 works well in full-power rounds, with 100.0 grains yielding 2650 with the RCBS bullet from my rifle .

Jamison brass is now on the market at about $35/20 stateside, which is half what Norma .416 Rigbys cost. It's not hard to have more money tied up in brass than in the rifle! Fortunately the brass lasts about forever. Most of mine must have over 20 loadings each and are still going strong.

I REALLY like the #1 rifle, too....much classier than the '17 (grin).

[Four Fingers of Death]

Fortunately, the rifle comes with smoe factory ammo and fired cases and another board member from here has some Hornady ammo he wants to sell, so it should just work out well. 416 boolit at 2650fps sounds like fun (NOT :D). No doubt it would be spot on for just about anything other than dangerous game, probably work ok on them most times, but this is not an area for casual experimentation.

How fast do the factory loads travel at?

Thanks again, gettig excited about this one, read Pondoro Taylors book years ago and have had a hankering for a 375H&H and a 416 Rigby ever since. The 350 Magnum caught my eye as well, but brass seems impossible and I think 35Whelans would be pretty similar.

Thanks again, Mick.

[Four Fingers of Death]

The rifle is very original, only one trip to Northern Territory, working up loads and two buffalo shot with it. My friend bought 100 cases new, 20 are used and 80 are new. Dies included (and probably the rest of the packet of Woodleigh bullets). It doesn't get any better than that. Mick.

[BruceB]

Mick;

That is such a deal that you'd be kicking yourself for years if you turn it down. That much brass alone represents about $300 in Yankee greenbacks....it means you get the rifle itself for about the same price of $300!

The single small fault I found in my rifle was that the forward end of the safety button would catch the rim of the ejecting case, and leave it sitting in the receiver...not a good thing when exchanging hostilities with some nasty critter. It was a minor job to shorten the button a tad (and it still covers the front end of the slot when "off"). Cases now eject cleanly.

Then of course, there's the Ruger so-called "pad", which is just about useless with such calibers as this. My rifle now has a Pachmayr Decelerator, and is much more comfortable to shoot as a result.

[shooting on a shoestring]

Wow! Just reading the velocities and boolit weights in this thread make me flinch. I just came from my bench, putting gas checks on my 45 gr. 225438 boolits for my Hornet (#3 Ruger Dad gave me in 2nd grade back in the early 70's). I'll bet the recoil of a .416 Rigby #1 Ruger gets measured on the Richter scale. How many rounds do you fire at a sitting/pounding?

[Lead melter]

Hey Mick,
I got one of those a few years ago at a steal. Not many grizzlies running around anymore in North Carolina, and the only buffalo are some of the local gals! I tried some store bought cast boolits in mine, but it would not hit a fat hippo in the rump at 50 paces. The Speer 350 grain Hot Core shoots like a dream for me. Load it up with 50 grains AA5744 over a Federal GM210M primer and light it up. If you do go the cast route, check in with Gator gas checks for the proper size checks. I believe some 41 caliber are for the 41 Mag, 41 AE, etc., while the shank for the .417 boolit will be different. I just went through this ordeal with a Lyman mold for my 41 Mag. Be sure to mount a long eye relief scope on that beast unless you like forehead scars. Best of luck!

[Four Fingers of Death]

Sorry Herman, I missed your post. Thanks for the info on the gas checks. 1K of thes ewill last a longggggg time, I'm thinking. Mick.

[BruceB]

Going through some rough personal times, I decided today was a good candidate for a de-pressurization shooting trip despite less-than-great weather. Thought I'd tag today's results onto this older thread, just to keep data more or less in one place for easier access.

I took my Whitworth .223 to the range today to try some generic ($7.00/100) Mid-South bullets. Shooting ten-round groups from 100 yards in a squirmy, round-bottomed seven-pound rifle is a test of one's patience. Most groups ran close to two inches for ten, with a couple of the higher-speed loads going around an inch discounting CALLED 'misteaks'.

The reason I mention this light varminter is that, after firing 100 .223s, I broke out the .416 Rigby. No lie at all, I ended up firing a couple of ten-rounders at 100 that were SMALLER than most of the .223 groups! Yep, with the standard "hunting load" of 55/5744 and the RCBS 416-350, no dacron, straight WW and sized .417" with Lar45 lube, the rifle kept ten rounds inside the two-inch "benchrest"-style black square.....TWICE. Velocity was averaging 2050 fps, chronographed today, with single-digit standard deviations. Good load. Aiming was a tad tough, using the old steel K4 Weaver, but the accuracy was fine.

The real reason for shooting the .416 today, was that I'd loaded-up some of those 400-grain NEI 421-390s (which are intended for my .404 Jeffery) in Rigby brass. Two loads were on hand, one with 48 grains of 5744 (1850 fps average) and the other using 52 grains of 5744 (2025 fps average). The bullets were sized nose-first in a .417" die, which worked well without any distortion of the bullet. Original diameter was .421", so it wasn't a very drastic down-sizing. .416 checks do NOT work on this bullet, being very much undersize for the shank. Therefore, I used .44 checks, which displayed a conspicuous "round-base" condition after going through the die.

The 'accuracy' with the NEIs was abysmal, awful, horrible. The first five rounds from 100 yards sprawled across two targets for a total of about seven inches. The second load did no better. That's when I broke out the other, older ammo with the RCBS bullet, just to test my shooting and the rifle. I strongly suspect that the odd base shape with the domed gaschecks is the cause of the inaccuracy, because the same bullet shoots VERY well in the .404 rifle. Oh well.... I do have the fine design INTENDED for the .416, so this is just one more experiment for the sake of education.

Tell y'all what, though...spending several hours with the .223 and then transitioning directly to the .416 is quite a wake-up call!

[joatmon]

MAN! in 2000 I had cadaver bones and metal brackets and bolts put in my neck, just reading this topic is loosening the nuts up. You'all are brutal!!

[Three44s]

joatman,

I will email the respective authorities and get a disclaimer attached to this thread!!!!!

Just kidding .............

I read that the .416 Rigby was a great Lion charge stopper .......... and you never know when somebodies Zoo or private lion might "go walk about"!!!!!!!!

Three 44s

[James C. Snodgrass]

I got mine in the lott and enjoy the hell out of it.The powder I've used alot for fun has been trailboss. I also like H4895 because you can reduce it to 50% of the max posted loads with out fear of detonation problems, Hodgdon put that info out in some of thier "cowboy loads" a couple of years ago. With a case as large as the Rigby that would be my main concern with a lot of reduced loads. I have managed yo get the Lott down to 1100fps with a 500gr cast with the trailboss, to stay subsonic and have gotten M.O.A. with it for 5 shots not 3. Good luck and good shootin, James

[Four Fingers of Death]

It has a 'dead donkey' recoil pad Bruce, which takes the sting out of it (realitively speaking I suppose). Funny thing, I put the application for a permit to acquire this rifle late and it turned up late last week. I am trying to contact the owner so we can do the handover, but I think he has taken his family away for the Christmas break.

I believe some aussie sambar hunters use the 416 with the 300 or 350 Gn Barnes Bullet at approx 2800fps. Similar trajectory as the 3006 with a smokin' 180Gn load, but more energy at 300 than the old warhorse has at the muzzle.

This rifle should, if anything be interesting!

Have a good Christmas, Mick (aka, future punch drunk 416 shooter :) )
.

[Nardoo]

Mick,
You are going to love that Ruger #1. I have one in 45/70 that I load up for sambar and ferals. It is great fun and kills well. I use a 500 gn CBE cast bullet at more than 1900 fps and it sure bucks.
I put a limbsaver on it and it really tamed the recoil. I also have limbsavers on my .338 WM and .375 H&H and find they reduce felt recoil without adding weight.
Incidently, the limbsaver looks a tad modern for the Ruger so I took to it with the random orbital sander with some fine grit paper and gave it the traditional look. I do not know if they are designed for sanding but they respond well. I also spray it with CRC 808 silicone spray to protect it. Sounds odd but really works.

http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p317/nardoo/100_2239.jpg

Good luck with that .416.

Nardoo

[Four Fingers of Death]

500Gn'ers at 1900fps, is right out there Nardoo. I have a CBE mould which is a Belding and Mull style 405Gn flying dustbin by CBE. I've never used it. If I ever get settled in a new place or organised in my old place, I will cast you some. Col Allison from CBE said they are called the 'Don't argue' bullet by his customers.

For our intenational friends, an aussie small goods company called Huttons, used to make a line of frankfurts/weiners called Footy Franks as they were sponsoring some football teams at the time. The ad had two footballers colliding violently and they kept replaying the footage of the two guys crashing into each other so it looked like they were having a right old barney to the tune of 'don't argue, don't argue, Hutton's Footy Franks are best.' The ads and the weiners were hugely popular.

[Nardoo]

Mick,
I would love to get a hold of that CBE 'Don't Argue'. If you would like to do a trade I have a number of moulds that might interest you (but none in .416" unfortunately). What calibres do you load for?

Cheers
Nardoo

[Four Fingers of Death]

You name it Nardoo, I probably load for it, I don't hae rifles in: 265, 270, 7mm, 338, 366 or 423, got the others covered as far as I can see up to 45 in rifles and pistols (not interested in bigger than that). Hang on awhile, if I end up getting my 45/70 Marlin back, I will need the mould, otherwise I might let it go. I am not set up for casting at the moment so if I can get into the garage (door failed, locked out at this stage, I don't want to start operating n it until I can get the door guy to fit a new door after I get through breaking in, I'll leave it till then) I will send it to you and you can break it in for me.

Did you have some 416 stuff, or was that someone else?

Happy new Year by the way.

Mick.

[Rick N Bama]

I'll bet the recoil of a .416 Rigby #1 Ruger gets measured on the Richter scale. How many rounds do you fire at a sitting/pounding?

Several years ago, I was doing some shooting at the local range while a gentleman was sighting in a #1 in 416. Using factory loads, he would fire a round then walk around for 10 minutes or so while the rifle cooled & his shoulder (somewhat) recovered. I offered him the use of my sissy pad but the offer was declined. I don't think he fired over 10 rounds or so.

Rick

[HollandNut]

I had two 1's I lost in a house fire back in May , a 375 and a Lott , both , as well as the Rigby are brutal off the bench in any rifle .. The stock on the 1 doesnt help any .. I put a Sims Limbsaver on the 375 and was able to go from 36 rounds full house 300 grain loads ( with a severely black shaded hematoma from the experience ) to 200 in one day without any coloring at all ..

My current hematoma is an 8.7# CZ550 Lott ..

[bullshot]

Maybe its me but I find the recoil from my CZ550 416 Rigby much less than my Win Mdl 70 458 win. Just my 2 cents.

[Lloyd Smale]

YEEHAW nardo thats one stout 4570 load. I usually run the 540s at about 1600 and 405s at about 2000 and they can hurt a guy!! Id be interested in your load if youd share it. If you dont want to post it PM it to me.
Mick,
You are going to love that Ruger #1. I have one in 45/70 that I load up for sambar and ferals. It is great fun and kills well. I use a 500 gn CBE cast bullet at more than 1900 fps and it sure bucks.
I put a limbsaver on it and it really tamed the recoil. I also have limbsavers on my .338 WM and .375 H&H and find they reduce felt recoil without adding weight.
Incidently, the limbsaver looks a tad modern for the Ruger so I took to it with the random orbital sander with some fine grit paper and gave it the traditional look. I do not know if they are designed for sanding but they respond well. I also spray it with CRC 808 silicone spray to protect it. Sounds odd but really works.

http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p317/nardoo/100_2239.jpg

Good luck with that .416.

Nardoo

[Four Fingers of Death]

Thanks, as I mentioned earlier it has a 'Dead Donkey' recoil pad which works pretty well according to the owner who is a friend (he is straining the friendship disapearing on holidays as soon as I get the permit). He is not a caster, usually reloads, but he hasn't worked his way through the factory rounds yet. I'll take care of that right smartly :)

Have a Happy New Year guys.

[broomhandle]

Hi Guys,

If your into the Ruger #1 go to this site. :-D

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RUGER-1/

It is like the Cast Boolit site for the Ruger #1 - lots of practical stuff on them too!

Some of the guys have over 100 Ruger #1's!

They helped me with my slightly used 1981 Ruger #1A in 30-06

Best to you in the NEW year!:drinks:

broomhandle

[Nardoo]

Lloyd,
The load I use in my No 1 45/70 is 55 gns of AR2206H (same as your H4895) with the CBE 462-500 cast in ww plus 2% Sn. It is a compressed load in Remington brass but fits easily in Winchester brass. I seat the bullet out a long way as my rifle has a long throat and use an inverted gas check under the plain base bullet.
Velocity is 1885 fps and accuracy is excellent and case life is still OK.

I also use the same set up with 54 gns of AR 2206 (basically like your IMR 3031) which gives 1900 fps in my rifle.

Both of these loads are near maximum and I worked up from a ways down. I do not get case head expansion so assume the pressure is in the safe region. I would urge anyone to start lower and watch out for signs of pressure. These loads are not recommended by me and are certainly not designed for any rifles other than Ruger #1's.

I have posted this pic before but it serves to illustrate the accuracy I am getting. This target was shot using a beagled RCBS 405 FN GC bullet weighing 420 gns. The CBE slugs are on the left and they shoot nearly as good. I could only manage three shot groups as the recoil is substantial in a 7lb rifle. (50 metres is 55 yds.)

http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p317/nardoo/100_1236.jpg


Nardoo

[Lloyd Smale]

I see your sizing to 461. What was the as cast size of the 405 rcbs bullets out of your mold without beagling and did you notice much difference is sizing 461 vs 460? Ive got a 460 and 459 sizer and need to know if its worth my while to buy a 461.

[Nardoo]

Lloyd,
The RCBS drops bullets right at .458". They shot fine in my old Marlin 45/70 but anything of that diameter keyholed in the Ruger. It needs .461" or .462" and shoots that size with remarkable accuracy.

I might add that I had a number of issues with the barrel and tight/rough spots under the barrel band and front sight band. It also had a rediculously short throat. I had so much trouble getting it to shoot well I decided to have it rebarreled. I then read some stuff on fire-lapping and despite knowing it might wear out the barrel I figured I had nothing to loose.

Well it removed much of the throat but also the tight spots in the barrel. And now it shoots nearly MOA with cast bullets, does not lead and is an absolute pleasure to use.

I certainly do not advocate fire lapping and must warn that you can and will ruin a good barrel by doing it. (I also used a variation of firelapping on my Great Plains 54 cal muzzle loader barrel which has made it a joy to load and shoot.)

Nardoo

[Four Fingers of Death]

Well, I finally bought it, it is virtually new, only fired 20 odd rounds, The guy is a good friemnd and he bought it for a Northern Territory Buffalo hunt, did a bit of practice, shot his first Buff with it then switched to his No1 in 338WM for the rest of the buffs, pigs and deer that he shot on the trip. He does not use it anymore as he has four young children keeping him occupied.

Just got to round up the club armourer (they are licensed dealers usually and facilitate ourchase / transfer of guns between members) our local gun shop is kaput, the owner had a bit of domestic unpleasantness and had all of his guns confiscated and his lisense suspended. Bugger!

The only probem is, there is also the 1B in 338WM, it was originally owned by Nick Harvey, a gun guru of some reknown in Australia, who lives in a little voillage about 35miles out of my home town. Nick did an article on the Ruger factory many years ago and bought it when he was there. he poured over every bit of wood there until he got the best. It is a remarkable bit of timber for a factory rifle. It is a beautiful, well cared for rifle with a lot of local history.

I'm gonna die poor!!!!! (but well armed) :)

I will have pics in a couple of days.

Mick.

[dubber123]

Sounds good Mick, I look forward to the pics of the 338. I have a #1 in 375 H&H I bought use with the intention of rechambering/reboring, but I just can't bring myself to now. I guess I need another!

[Four Fingers of Death]

Actually it has a dark grey/black Pachmyr Decelorator recoil pad and a the 'Dead Donkey' is a merecury filled recoil reducer fitted inside the butt. I haven't used Mercury in awhile, we used to get the big pennys as kids and rub mercury over them while in the chemistry lab, which gave them a shiny silver appearance and then pass them off at the school canteen when it was real crowded at lunch break. We didn't realise how dangerous it was. I only did it once, nearly got sprung, but melted into the crowd of like dressed teenagers. So ended my life of crime.

[dubber123]

Actually it has a dark grey/black Pachmyr Decelorator recoil pad and a the 'Dead Donkey' is a merecury filled recoil reducer fitted inside the butt. I haven't used Mercury in awhile, we used to get the big pennys as kids and rub mercury over them while in the chemistry lab, which gave them a shiny silver appearance and then pass them off at the school canteen when it was real crowded at lunch break. We didn't realise how dangerous it was. I only did it once, nearly got sprung, but melted into the crowd of like dressed teenagers. So ended my life of crime.

SCOFFLAW!!!

[Four Fingers of Death]

I forgot to mention, we passed them off as a two shilling coin, there were 12 pennys (pence is the correct plural) in a shilling, so it was a pretty handsome profit, if you wern't paying for the mercury. Probably still pumping around my veins some 45years later. :(

[Four Fingers of Death]

Well I got it today, bought the 338 as well, strangely enough, I bumped into Mick Harvey the gun writer and original owner of the 338, about to take his wife to lunch at a restraunt in town. He told me about getting the rifle from the Ruger factory, being told to pick a stock out and the one he saw sitting on the side took his fancy. Apparently it was put aside for a special order but Bill let him have it, a deals a deal.

I fired the 416 with a couple of Federal factory rounds, Man! You know you are hanging onto a serious rifle when you arc up this baby. The recoil is impressive, but nowhere near as bad as my old Brno/CZ 458WM from memory. The dead donkey and the Pachmyr doing their work I suppose.

I didn't get to shoot the 338 as it is a 1B and I didn't have time to fit a scope, etc. I gave the range officer Anthony a few shots of the Rigby and he was pulling money out of his pocket trying to buy it. No way! :)

Unfortunately