Recoil sensitive wuss still wants to shoot

[nekshot]

Ok, put a skirt on me but a 3 inch mag in a lite o/u 20 ga has set me up for another neck operation. All of my shooting has now been altered thru the views of my surgeon. What is the best approach to have 100 yard killing ability and the least amount of recoil in a muzzle loader? I am willing to do anything to achieve this with in reason. My shooting hobby is starting to get on thin ice and I prefer to keep it! thanks for your input, nekshot

[Zymurgy50]

What kind of muzzleloader? In my 50 sidelock I have harvested many deer using .490 patched round ball and 80gn of 2f
In my daughters in-line i use 2 triple seven pellets and a 245gn powerbelt, (mine takes 3 pellets).
Got an uncle that uses a 45 muzzleloader, .440 patched ball and 70gn of 3f.
All of these loads have much less recoil than a 3" slug.

[mooman76]

If you are talking deer I'd say 45 cal if that's legal there but only you can say when you fire it and how heavy of loads you can handle.

[nekshot]

I know my 50 H&R sidekick with sabot and 240 gr boolit and 80 gr bp is to much for me. I was hoping to hear of someone using a 45 barrel (which I don't have) and a sabot with lite boolit. My funds are really limited now and I don't have the luxury of experimenting I once had. I realize bp might be over for me and that is ok if that is the way it is.

[waksupi]

.45 with PRB is good to about 80 yards for power and accuracy. Step up to PRB in .50-.54 to stretch to 100+ yards. With a properly fit rifle and reasonable loads, recoil is virtually non-existent. ML's aren't supposed to be magnums, anyway.

[mooman76]

Why not try a lighter bullet in your 50 and with a slightly lighter load it may work out about the same as a 45.

[johnson1942]

i put a 34 inch long 1 inch diam. .45 cal 1/60 twist barrel on a track of the wolf renagade replacement stock. with 60 grains of 2f it has really no recoil i ever think about. it also has a nice lace up slipover pad from buffalo arms. get a .45 roundball with some weight and put on a slip over pad and you will be able to handle it. also look up dead mules in brownells catalog. i put one in a castbullet .45 sidelock i built for one of my sons and the recoil is nil. the dead mule and weight makes the diff.

[10 ga]

Only way to go for 100 yds and low/no recoil is a "smokeless muzzleloader". I have 3 and all are "custom" 45 cal rifles. Several different ways to go. PM for details as I usually get flamed for posting stuff about SML. You get very accurate rifles with low recoil if you want. A complete custom can be done for less than 5C including ammo and all the extras. Recoil in the "hardly noticeable" range for only 100 yd loads.

Next best is a 45 shooting Blackhorn 209 powder. 200 to 220 gr saboted bullets with moderate loads of BH209 and you are in business.

Remember that you need to look at the total weight of what is coming out of the barrel and what velocity you are getting. With equal velocity when weight of bullet and/or powder is decreased the recoil decreases. So a SML shooting a 220 gr bullet with 35 gr of powder will have a whole lot less recoil than a ML shooting a 350 gr bullet with 90 gr of powder. And a 220 gr bullet is big hunk of lead going down range.

10 ga

[Hanshi]

From my experience I recommend a .45 shooting prb. A barrel of at least 35" will give excellent velocity, accuracy and low recoil. Using 2F also helps. While 100 yards is a fair stretch for a .45, it is still well within its kill range. My farthest shot on a deer with a .45 prb was 75 yards. Shot was through and through and the deer didn't go far. This was with a 65 grn powder charge. Increase the charge a bit and you shouldn't have any worries; or even DON'T increase it and it will do the job.

[Junior1942]

I know my 50 H&R sidekick with sabot and 240 gr boolit and 80 gr bp is to much for me. I was hoping to hear of someone using a 45 barrel (which I don't have) and a sabot with lite boolit. My funds are really limited now and I don't have the luxury of experimenting I once had. I realize bp might be over for me and that is ok if that is the way it is.Take off the buttplate and fill the bolt-hole with lead or something heavy. You can easily cut the recoil by 1/2 to 1/3.

[nekshot]

ok, I am starting to feel more confident that I can get to 100 yards with out too much recoil. I will try as much recoil pad material as possible. I guess this is as good a time to come to grips with round balls doing the job as well as the other stuff. I know they work but I love the "big" look of slugs. This is a paradigm and I stand guilty of common sense regarding round balls. I will learn now! I have a 44 perc long rifle and that thing snaps too much because of its weight. I will try rb in my tc flinter, that puppy is heavy.

[felix]

Make sure of your true enemy being recoil. It just might be noise, like in my situation more so than not. ... felix

[Texantothecore]

I shoot a .50 Hawken and with 70 grains of 2fg and .490 ball it is quite gentle.

You should also be able to use double patches and patch down to .45.

Play around with it and see what happens. MLs are amazingly flexible.

A PAST shoulder pad will absorb most of the recoil, by the way. I use one and it has made a huge difference with my .45-70.

From my readings over the years modern shooters do not use the full capabilities of their rifles.

[rodwha]

I've wondered about double patching a .457" RB in my .50 cal if/when small game hunting. I'm not so sure if that would work as I use a .490" RB with a 0.015" patch, which requires a bit of effort using the short starter. No hammering necessary, but its not easy per say.

[Sergeant Earthworm]

My 2 cents: I'd go for a .50 cal sidelock with a 1:48 twist because that will give you plenty of options. It might not shoot round balls all that well, but you could try sabots with .45 cast or jacketed and lighter conicals as well. You'll have to use loose powder if you go with a sidelock. Work the powder charge until you get the lightest load that will shoot accurately but don't go too light as you may run out of energy down range. Add a limb saver recoil pad, a padded shooting jacket or shoulder pad and do your bench shooting from a Lead Sled loaded with plenty of weight (I use bags made from old pant legs filled with recovered range lead on mine).

I have a buddy who has the same concern. An hour of shooting and he has to visit the chiropractor three times the following week, until he changed his modus operandi to deal with the recoil.

[phonejack]

With my 45 cal sidelock I have killed deer up close with 60 gr. 2f and a power belt.

[DIRT Farmer]

When my oldest son started hunting, I set him up with a 50 shooting a patched round ball and 35 grains of ffg. The drop might take a bit of figuring at 100, but at 50 that load would put a hole through both sides of a deer and it would just stand there looking for where the noise came from till it fell over.

[nekshot]

Thanks everyone for the input, I know personally deer are easy to kill with a 22lr when they are not pushed and shot in the right spot but it is so easy to think bigger is better and forget the common sense in it all. I think what has really upset me the most in this latest turn of events is I have been acquiring the parts to build my sacrilegious flinter in 54 cal and now not only recoil is a issue but the therapist said I cannot do anything where by I am looking down or working on things at bench level. I am supposed to stand straight and work at eye level. This knocks out almost all gun work and now I am scrambling to make sense out of it all. Oh well, God is good and the sun will rise tomorrow so who needs to worry! I now have a reason to shoot with less powder and lighter projectiles!
nekshot

[rodwha]

You could likely still use your .54 flint as well. Using PRB's with a mild load, and adding a recoil pad and/or adding weight to the rifle to help reduce recoil I'd think would tame it. I wouldn't give up on it just yet.

Too bad you are too far away. I'd be your hands to help you finish your project. I could learn to work on a rifle, and you could learn patience in dealing with me! I'd love to learn to do something like that!

[Lonegun1894]

I would say work up a light load in your current .50 with a PRB, build your .54, and do the same, but decrease your range requirement to say 50-60yds. I think most people would be amazed what a round ball can do, even at fairly low velocity, as long as it plows through the right parts of a targets anatomy. If you however want to stay with the 100yd requirement, and I expect to ruffle people's feathers by saying this, but I would consider a .45, or a .40, or even maybe a .36 round ball gun. Here is the thing with the smaller calibers, take everything you have always heard about the "marginal" calibers, say .223 for example, about taking broadside shots only, and waiting for the perfect shot, etc, etc, and apply them to this small caliber ML. Remember that deer are not hard to kill, but they can be hard to place the ball in just the right spot. Now if it wasn't for the medical issues, I would not be recommending such small calibers, but if you're an experienced hunter, and only you know if you are or not, since none of us here know your experience level, you can make the small calibers work. .22LR was mentioned above. I have taken plenty of hogs in the 200# range with .22LR handguns, using a single well-placed shot, and get very short runs--usually less than 20yds, if they run at all. A friend of mine uses a .32 CVA Squirrel caplock for his deer hunting, also due to medical issues that preclude him from carrying a heavy rifle or absorbing heavy recoil like he used to in his youth. The rifle weighs maybe 5lbs, and recoil is like a .22 Mag. His personal limit is 50yds and hunts like a bowhunter, and most of his shots are closer to 30yds. His RB hits about an inch behind the elbow EVERY time, taking out both lungs and the heart. He gets more deer than I do. Don't let this stop you from hunting, or shooting for that matter. Just adjust the way you do it and what you do it with. On the other end of the spectrum of calibers, I bought a 13ga (.710") SxS ML shotgun some time back, and of course had to try it on a hog. Now this was an eradication hunt, and not necessarily a meat hunt, so sporting rules didn't really concern us as much as making sure we killed hogs. Good time to experiment, right? Anyway, 50 grs of FFFg pushing a patched .690 ball out of this gun has VERY light recoil, feeling more like my .357 Mag Rossi 92 firing .38 Spl +p ammo, so fairly light, and that ball still went in the forehead of the hog and stopped on the pelvis. Now, it didn't leave a mark on the pelvis, so it must not have had much steam left, but it didn't start with much steam to begin with before making contact with this 175# pig. It broke the spine on its way so the pig dropped in its tracks. I tried this load on the range to check trajectory, and it gives me 4.5" groups at 50 yds, so accuracy is there, but when the sun is right, you can see the ball in flight all the way to the target. Now this hog was at 20yds on an overcast day, so I couldn't see the ball. All I'm saying is that the smaller guns are very capable in the right hands if used within their limitations, and the bigger guns can be loaded down and still work very well if put in the right place. Now quit moping and go do some shooting (with the necessary light loads), it'll make you feel better and boost your confidence for when season comes around.

[richhodg66]

Most of my muzzle loader kills have been with a .50 Hawken and big conicals that kick hard, but a few years ago, I started dabbling with inlines. Last couple of deer I shot with a cheap inline (still gives decent accuracy) the RCBS 225 grain .44 SWC and 70 grains of 777. I put a slip on recoil pad over the rubber buttplate and the rifle is pretty easy on me. I was trying to get a combo together that my youngest son, who is somewhat recoil shy, would use, but he isn't into September deer hunting.

I'd say get an inline, some relatively light pistol bullets and sabots and weight the rifle with some lead shot or something and give it a try.

[nekshot]

Thanks Lonegun, you will never know how much you encouraged me. I have secretly been making a switch to bp from smokeless and I have a few shotgun barrels(o\u and sxs) I have dreams of turning into bp ball flingers. I know my kids can shoot the heavy stuff but I still have some fire left in me too, simply need to rearrange thoughts to thinking less is better!(at least for my specific situation)

[Texantothecore]

I am very pleased with my switchover from 405 grain boolits with modern powder to .457 roundball over black powder. Very little recoil to very mild depending on the bp load. As we get a bit older we do have to account for the physical effects of the rounds we shoot and using large bore rifles is great because they are effective at much lower speeds than the smaller rounds.

You might want to try your new bp loads on pork ribs at 100 yards. You might be surprised at the amount of damage a round ball will do. It is substantial.

[Awsar]

get a recoil reducer put into stock then a good recoil pad,maybe a heavier gun those 3 should tame most recoil.

[johnson1942]

awsar put it better than i did and he is 100 percent right, thanks awsar.

[KyBill]

.Go see the guys at any Trap range and ask about recoiless butt plates .My neibor said it took about 80% of his recoil away .

[nekshot]

hmmm, maybe I can still finish some of my dream projects. All of these projects will produce plenty of recoil, so absorbing the recoil is key. Here is one project I have been waiting to do for a few years. Found the 12 ga barrel with sights, later on ebay won the wood set and have been dreaming of this as a cartridge(brass shotgun shells) rifle.All I have to do is make the reciever. So you guys are making me happy again!
75127

[wolfe28]

Thanks everyone for the input, I know personally deer are easy to kill with a 22lr when they are not pushed and shot in the right spot but it is so easy to think bigger is better and forget the common sense in it all. I think what has really upset me the most in this latest turn of events is I have been acquiring the parts to build my sacrilegious flinter in 54 cal and now not only recoil is a issue but the therapist said I cannot do anything where by I am looking down or working on things at bench level. I am supposed to stand straight and work at eye level. This knocks out almost all gun work and now I am scrambling to make sense out of it all. Oh well, God is good and the sun will rise tomorrow so who needs to worry! I now have a reason to shoot with less powder and lighter projectiles!
nekshot

Sit on a milk crate. That should put the bench at eye level. As for the gun itself, I would do what you can with a recoil pad and adding weight to the gun. Heavier gun = less felt recoil.

[bigted]

Lyman GPR with the lace-up pad on the rear... 1 in 60 inch twist ... 54 cal shooting 530 dia ball ... 80 grains powder ... lubed patch of .015 inch ... shoot it till it becomes second nature !

if still too much recoil then the old trick my Dad showed me as a kid with a single shot 12 gauge... [real kicker] ... drill out the stock behind the but plate and pound lead 2 oz sinkers ...[ salt water weights]... till they fit tight in the hole...use as many as required for taming the recoil.

now you will be equipped with a 220 grain ball rifle that is going around 18 or 19 hundred FPS ,.,. this combo has harvested everything from rabbits to grizzly. just get proficient with it and set your own yardage limits.

another thing this will do is make you a HUNTER instead of a harvester. get ready to step into yesteryear and study the how-to's of this style hunting. there are many good things to be gained as well ... the extra seasons are one that springs to mind. hunting with a primitive style rifle gives pride and accomplishment to your outing as well.

have fun and report back with your progress... :drinks: