Tell me about powder coating boolits....

[hawaii five-0]

I'm interested in powdercoating boolits. Tell me the good and bad, if you would please. Do we do this at home? What do I need? Does it build up in gun/ gas system? Im shooting .300 AAC in AR pistol( 10 inch stainless- 1/7 twist) boolit is Lee 230 grain

[kbstenberg]

If you look in the stickies there are a couple ongoing threads on powder coating.

[Nickle]

Check the Lubes area, there's at least one active thread on it there right now.

[hawaii five-0]

Thanks

[prs]

I wish the OP had gotten a straight answer. That sticky thread is wayyyyyyyyyyy long and goes off ontangents galore and if it does give a how to and what to buy and the pro VS con; then I missed it in the clutter.

prs

[dbosman]

There are 57 pages in one thread and 68 in the other one. That's simply too much for anyone to get through intelligently.
The concept works.
The cheap Craftsman powder coat gun is no longer available. It seems the Harbor Freight kit is now the only inexpensive option.
The simple answer is to watch a couple of the YouTube videos to see how it's done, then go do it.

The simpler answer is if you don't have a powder coat setup, consider (use the search function) the piglet method of coating using Acetone and powder coat or the HiTek coating from http://www.bayoubullets.net/Coating.html
Again, the YouTube videos will show you faster than the growing threads.

[dromia]

I wish the OP had gotten a straight answer. That sticky thread is wayyyyyyyyyyy long and goes off ontangents galore and if it does give a how to and what to buy and the pro VS con; then I missed it in the clutter.

prs

That is the nature of forums such as these, the threads evolve as each member contributes, it is happening in real time with real time thought processes.

If you are not prepared to put the effort in to sift and place value on what you read and just expect to get a concise "How To" manual from forums such as these then you are coming to the wrong place.

One members clutter is another members inspiration.

Some people might think these posts as "clutter".

[dverna]

dormia,

I respectfully disagree. 60 pages of "stuff" is onerous. That is why we have stickies for many subjects and most of them are not too long. What makes them stickies is that the essence of the subject is in the first few posts on the thread.

Of course, this requires a "champion" who can succinctly provide the "road map" for someone to follow. Reading 60 pages to draw your own map is not for everyone - especially in this age of instant gratification. Now, I am old school and have read every thread on these PC, piglet, and Hy-Tek coatings.

I understand the lack of a road map for a technology that is in its infancy - but we are at the point most people will not wade through all the junk. It may be time reach out to some of the key people working on coatings and ask them to write a sticky and maybe consider a separate forum for coated bullets as these are not lubes. Just a thought.

Respectfully

Don Verna

[popper]

try the 'extreme' lube thread of >2k posts. Lot of ideas, processes and results here, don't try to change it.

[dverna]

Over 2000 posts!!!! Is that a good thing?

I am sure people just cannot wait to settle in with a few buckets of popcorn and ready them all. SURE!!!

What you guys are missing is that most of YOU did not have to read 2000 posts to get up to speed. YOU were in close to the beginning so you updated on a regular basis over months (years???). If you think that newbies MUST wade through all that stuff to garner the few kernels of wisdom you are only justifying your "addiction". Part of what makes this site great is people willing to help. Telling them to read 2000 posts is not helpful.

It pisses me off when newbies ask questions that are addressed in stickies that run less then 2 pages or are covered in Fryxell's downloadable book. They are just plain LAZY!!!

The other extreme, are these giant threads. Too much junk to read and much of it useless. There is the old saying, "I want to know what time it is - not how to build a watch".

I made the investment in time to read them all. I was genuinely interested and still am - but my take is:

1. Powder coating is a PITA
2. Piglet method and Hy-Tek seem to do a good job on pistol bullets and offer a higher production rate (with minimal investment) than traditional lube/sizing - unless you have a Star. Also better than a Star if you do smaller batches and/or use many different calibers and bullet types.
3. The advantage of being to use a softer alloy and/or less accurate sizing and still avoid leading.
4. Pretty colors available if that turns your crank.

I hope the OP has not been driven off. Here is the skinny if you are still reading. THEY CANNOT ANSWER YOUR QUESTIONS!!!!!! That is because most of the work is being done on pistol bullets. So, it may work - if you are willing to do the experimentation. If you have never cast before, I would NOT recommend learning to cast and powder coat as the same time. You will likely get poor results and not know if it is your ability to cast or the powder coat. If you decide to try it, shoot the bullets with traditional lubes first to determine you have good bullets - then - give coated bullets a try. My own choice would be Hy-Tek for your application but if "pretty" bullets matter to you PC makes a nice bullet.

[dromia]

dormia,

I respectfully disagree. 60 pages of "stuff" is onerous. That is why we have stickies for many subjects and most of them are not too long. What makes them stickies is that the essence of the subject is in the first few posts on the thread.

Of course, this requires a "champion" who can succinctly provide the "road map" for someone to follow. Reading 60 pages to draw your own map is not for everyone - especially in this age of instant gratification. Now, I am old school and have read every thread on these PC, piglet, and Hy-Tek coatings.

I understand the lack of a road map for a technology that is in its infancy - but we are at the point most people will not wade through all the junk. It may be time reach out to some of the key people working on coatings and ask them to write a sticky and maybe consider a separate forum for coated bullets as these are not lubes. Just a thought.

Respectfully

Don Verna



Why don't you be that "Champion" then?

Precis the content and we will sticky it.

[dragon813gt]

I have to agree that the long threads can be a pain to find info in. But I also understand why they are what they are. I was really interested in the copper alloy threads. I had to tap out because it was to much and I couldn't find any solid answers for my time invested. I wish I could be the person to wade through them and make a new thread w/ all the valuable parts. For a newbie they really aren't a great thing. For a veteran that's experimenting I'm sure they are great. Hopefully over time the methods become more standardized and then a how to can be created.

[waksupi]

If someone can not read 60 pages of a topic to gain the knowledge they seek, this may not be the place for them. Lots of ongoing research here. I will assume War and Peace is not on your reading list.

[dragon813gt]

Assumption is the mother of all **** ups so it would be wise not to assume. I realize they are ongoing experiments. But look at it from someone who is just getting into the hobby and knows very little. Hopefully when the experiments are winding down because a solution has been found a shorter sticky can be posted. I realize this is a forum and it's free. But would you read a book to learn something if it's all over the place and veers off topic? I can say w/ 100% certainty that I am not the only one that would not read that book.

I really don't care since I realize that they are experiments that are happening in real time. But to tell someone to read a 2000+ post thread is a little ridiculous. And I hate repeated topics that come up all the time.

[dromia]

Book - Forum.

You are comparing apples and oranges.

[popper]

Ok, I will regurgitate PC.
Pros: It works. It is easy. It doesn't smoke. It can be used on undersized CBs. It does take some sort of rig to apply, a heat source to cook. WD if needed to harden. It's about 2-2H hardness - not a jacket replacement. Appears to work for rifle up to 2200fps.
Cons: feeding, chambering. Due to coating thickness variations you should seat deeper, depending on gun & mould designs. Can be a tad messy depending on the coating rig (ES gun) setup. More suited to the <500 rnd lots - but I haven't tried the piglet method yet. Doesn't appear to solve the cold first shot off target problem, but even jacketed has that. Don't nick the coating when loading.

HF works but there are better powders available (in the details of the other threads). I've read the whole extreme lube thread, I saw this, decided it is the way for me. Previous lube was LLA, Recluse ( & veggie oil for rifle, which works well ), chose your poison.
When Donnie calls back I will order some hi-tek to try.
If you choose PC, READ the threads for details and examples.
To answer H5-0's question, I'm shooting AR-308 carbine PCd with no problems. BCG looks same as jacketed, accuracy is the same, bbl is clean.
My comment on the extreme lube thread (which is way longer than any PC thread) is exactly 'if you are interested, READ IT', else keep quiet. It is a very 'advanced' lube thread, lots of experimenting, good info and ater a year or so, maybe have a good solution. Rome wasn't built in a day.

[xacex]

If someone can not read 60 pages of a topic to gain the knowledge they seek, this may not be the place for them. Lots of ongoing research here. I will assume War and Peace is not on your reading list.

^^^ What waksupi said^^^

The instant access to information without regard to the research, and work behind it could be dangerous. Would you just thumb through a reloading manual, and go to town without fully understanding what the dangers, and pitfalls are? I know it may be a bit of reading, but it would be best to take a few days and read through the progression to where we are right now. That way you will have an idea of what has worked, and what does not work. Every question I can think of can be answered in that thread if you take the time to read it. If after you have spent some time reading the powdercoat thread, and still have a question that has not been answered then post it in that thread so everyone can work on your question. If you want a short how to look at the post on AR15.com on powdercoating in the reloading section. I put up a short step by step in that thread. To top it off it is only 6 pages long, but lacks the knowledge that has been put into the thread here.

[hawaii five-0]

Thanks to all. I posted my original question in the wrong section, but was guided to the lube section. 58 pages of info is fine by me. Seems to be actively in the process of being perfected.

[bangerjim]

I just plug my USB 3.0 cable into my compatible ear jack and download the entire thread into my gray matter while I am sleeping.


NOOOOOOOOOOT

Never mind.......just kidding.

Have we grown so "digitally fast" that we cannot read anymore?

I learned the entire (evolving) process from several nights of reading the stuff here.

Bamgerjim :coffeecom

[Russel Nash]

I stumbled upon the powder coating thing from an AR15.com thread. Then I went to the Brian Enos forums. Then I came here. My jaw hit the floor when I saw how long the thread was, but I waded through it. The advantage reading a whole thread is that there may be that little kernel that inspires somebody to do powder coating "my way" or "their way".

We each bring a different set of experiences and skill sets to tackling a problem. If you were to ask a carpenter, a luthier, and a machinist to build a set of kitchen cabinets, each one is going to approach it in different ways.

Me? Being a scaffold builder, the OSHA regs say that a 2X4 toe board needs to be positioned around a scaffold deck so that stuff like parts or tools don't go rolling off and falling 13 floors and end up killing somebody. The way we attach a wooden 2X4 to a metal patented scaffold system is with tie wire. So after seeing popper's posts about using hacksaw blades, my solution was to use a tie wire jig to hold boolits by their lube grooves.

This was my "proof of concept" mockup:

http://i603.photobucket.com/albums/tt112/gryphon1994/914B3A91-F1D3-44D6-BDD5-11E32534D1FC-138-0000019412311A16_zps76eb7458.jpg

[bangerjim]

Correct me if I am wrong, but the whole idea of PC'ing the boolit is to get ALL the lead covered. If you use wires in the lube grooves, there is some shiny lead showing and that will possibly lead your gun barrel. Unless you are grease lubing the PC's boolit too. I use several methods (not recommending any specific method.....use your own choice) that insures the ENTIRE boolit is coated - including ALL the grease grooves, with the exception of the bottom.

bangerjim

[fcvan]

I've read and contributed to the powder coating thread. I will cut to the chase. I bought a Harbor Freight PC gun and flat black powder. My intent was to PC 225-415 boolits for use in a Mini14 and an AR platform rifle. Tiny boolits tip over, aluminum foil sticks, I decided to go a different route.

I make gas checks out of aluminum flashing and so I have lots on hand. I made a tray for the 22 boolits and drilled holes. The gas check shank of the boolit sets in the hole and the boolits are evenly coated. Gas checks are applied during sizing and they shoot great.

I wanted to PC some 30 caliber boolits. I cut a tray from flashing and glued some 30 cal checks to the tray. The boolits stay upright and the gas checks stay on the tray when the coated boolits cool from the oven. Gas checks are applied when sizing and they shoot great.

Coating pistol boolits is similar but somewhat faster. I put the boolits in a plastic cartridge tray (think ammo box) skipping every other hole to give equal spacing between boolits. The boolits are placed on a piece of flashing, coated, and baked. Build up at the base for the boolit does not seem to be a problem. Once baked and cooled the boolits snap off the flashing leaving the excess on the flashing. Sized with or without plain based gas checks, they shoot fine.

Clean boolits coat evenly. I cast boolits and drop onto a towel. Those boolits are transferred to a metal bin for collection using a metal spoon. When handling the boolits for PC application I wear a latex glove. Clean boolits are essential to good even coating that sticks and stays put.

I PC outdoors using a cardboard box as a spray booth. Excess powder is collected and returned to the container so as to avoid contamination of the powder. A cheap paint brush works well for this task. Although a breeze doesn't seem to effect the powder coating process it does tend to allow some of the 'overspray' to float around.

My toaster oven is a small Black and Decker model that had two oven trays. I used some 3" long 1/4" bolts and nuts to stack both trays on the single oven rack. It takes a few minutes for the oven to warm up so I turn on to 400 degrees and set a timer to 25 minutes. The oven is turned off and I let them cool. I've made multiple trays from flashing to place on the oven trays so I can coat more boolits while the oven is cooling off.

I've really enjoyed reading all of the posts, searching for YouTube videos of people powder coating, and then finally trying my hand. I'm very happy with the results.

75474

[bangerjim]

HUMIDITY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Being here in the great SW USA where the dewpoint can be in the negative (!) temp range, I have had great success with PC. Within the last week, we are now entering our "monsoon" season where the DP goes up into the mid 60's.......very muggy when you consider the temp is 110.

Yesterday I tried the yellow HF for the 1st time and it was a disaster. Did not stick at first at all. Most of the powder ended up on the pan. I got enough to stick after 3-4 times the application time to bake. Coating was pretty thin.

What do you guys that live in always-humid climates do? I call it "Houston-esk" humidity! Is it the humidity or just the yellow powder? It seems grainy as opposed to the black and red, both of which have always worked very well. Have not felt like cleaning out the yellow from the gun to try the others in the humid temps yet.

The black has always worked 120%!

What are your thoughs!

Bangerjim :dung_hits_fan: sweatin with the oldies

[Russel Nash]

Correct me if I am wrong, but the whole idea of PC'ing the boolit is to get ALL the lead covered. If you use wires in the lube grooves, there is some shiny lead showing and that will possibly lead your gun barrel. Unless you are grease lubing the PC's boolit too. I use several methods (not recommending any specific method.....use your own choice) that insures the ENTIRE boolit is coated - including ALL the grease grooves, with the exception of the bottom.

bangerjim

Since they are just for pistol boolits, I am not too worried about two spots in the lube grooves NOT being covered.

I am more worried about the bottom of the boolit being covered.

Later today, I am headed over to my friend's place that has the powder coating business. So I will get to see his oven first hand, I hope.

[prs]

I didna mean t' rankle Yer hackles. The response you quoted infers that I did indeed read the whole PC thread. I have kept up with it too. Same regarding the Aussie material. But a great deal of the posts are inmaterial to the subject. It happens, I am guilty on occasion myself. I was not complaining, just stating the obvious. Maybe the new procedures will be covered in the next revision of the CAST BULLET HANDBOOK and my grand kids may benefit.

prs