30 Cal M2 AP Penetration (30-06)

[Revolver]

Hey folks. I finally managed to get away from the office after working on an absolutely hellish project. After that it seemed to never stop raining! Finally, I got to go out and shoot up some of this old 30-06 Armor Piercing stuff graciously donated to me by a member here. I had read many conflicting accounts of what this stuff was capable of so it was enjoyable to kick it around myself. Anyhow, if you are interested here is the video. I had fun with it! Take care.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hzYH8ap1TDo

[MtGun44]

I read about some local Platte County sheriff's deputies that went up against Bonnie and Clyde.
This was the tourist court shootout in the movie, where Buck got a head wound. The officer
told about them surrounding the building - he had a .38 revolver - and calling for them to give
up. Clyde opened up with his favorite - a BAR with AP ammo. The officer saw rounds zipping
through a good sized oak tree he was taking cover behind, like tree wasn't there. He looked at
the .38 his hand and ran. I always assumed he was telling the truth, but this verifies it. Talk about
outgunned!

This is northwest a bit from KC, apparently the tourist court still stands.

Bill

[Sweetpea]

Great video!

Very well put together.

Will watch for the other ones to be forthcoming.

Brandon

[smokemjoe]

Back in the 60s I bought 2,000 of this made here in Des Moines Iowa for $01.5 a rd, I pulled some for the powder, 4895, shot a lot at 400 yds. at rocks, and shot small rocks under big rocks to make a rock slide. Shot some at a old dozer blade, they only went in about 5/8 because it was harded steel, we shoot some a 2 foot hard maple tree and didn't go out the other side, but the 6.5X55 swed. did, shot a lot of carp and rough fish with them, Still have about 100 bullets left, would be nice to load them in a 300 H&H and see what they would do to a engine block. Joe

[Outpost75]

When Ollie North was running the Contra war my activity was tasked with accumulating cal. .30 ammunition to link up and teach the Contras the benefits of long range, indirect, plunging fire. The ammo of choice was M72 Match, which duplicated the old Ball M1, with APM2 being an acceptable substitute. Over 16 million rounds were gleaned from bunkers on CONUS bases, which explains in part why the stuff is so scarce now......

[Jim]

..... would be nice to load them in a 300 H&H and see what they would do to a engine block. Joe

Average size block, assuming it's iron, they won't go all the way through, but they'll dern sure shut it down if it's running.

[mroliver77]

Be careful! A friend and I were shooting engines one day and a steel core came back at us and stuck in his shin!

[Boerrancher]

Had a neighbor get killed about 20 years ago shooting AP rounds. He had an old tractor wheel leaned up against a tree about 100 yards off of his front porch. His wife came home from shopping and found him dead on the porch with a GSW to the chest and his rifle laying beside him having been fired. She thought he had been in a shoot out. It was later discovered that he was shooting AP rounds at the iron wheel and one hit just right and ran the curvature of the wheel around and came back at him striking him in the chest. I wanted to play with some pulled AP bullets in my 300RUM but remembered what happened to my neighbor.

Best wishes

Joe

[Big Boomer]

Back in the early 1980s a friend gave me several hundred .30 cal. AP bullets that had been pulled, along with the powder from the pull-down. I still have a handful or so of those bullets. Fortunately, I found out without suffering any harm that the jackets will peel off and come back at you if you are not careful. I decided that if the jacket can come back, the hardened core could too. I shot a round into a sandrock from a distance as a penetration test, knowing it would penetrate and would not come back at me. I had to leave the scene of shooting and acquire a big hammer and a good chisel and return in order to retrieve that hard core, which was only polished by the sandrock. Nary a mark on the core. I tried a new file on the core and only dulled the file. Tungsten Carbide I believe is what the core was called by the guy who gave them to me. 'Tuck (as in Kentuck)

[ShooterAZ]

Had a neighbor get killed about 20 years ago shooting AP rounds. He had an old tractor wheel leaned up against a tree about 100 yards off of his front porch. His wife came home from shopping and found him dead on the porch with a GSW to the chest and his rifle laying beside him having been fired. She thought he had been in a shoot out. It was later discovered that he was shooting AP rounds at the iron wheel and one hit just right and ran the curvature of the wheel around and came back at him striking him in the chest. I wanted to play with some pulled AP bullets in my 300RUM but remembered what happened to my neighbor.

Best wishes

Joe

Yes, Be Careful with it!!! A friend of mine was severely wounded with some 30 Cal AP several years ago. He was shooting at an old hunk of Railroad track about 2' long at about 100 yds, and it curled back at him. It went through and through his femur and busted his leg. I have several hundred projos that I'm saving for a "rainy day".

[10-x]

Back in the 60's a friend's Dad gave me a few 100 rounds of AP M-2. We shot all of it through an 03 at an old Case tractor that was left on the farm. When we were finished that Case was "holey". IIRC most of it was cast iron so no "reflections". Some states have "regulations" against owning and shooting AP, collectors are allowed a few rounds.

[captain-03]

Enjoyed the Video!! Thanks for sharing ...

[Artful]

Nice Video - Can't wait for the 50 caliber version.:kidding:

[JeffinNZ]

Great watching.

[DLCTEX]

At Ft. Hood in the 1960's a soldier was killed when pulling targets in a pit next to me by a penetrator core that hit a knot in the wood lining the pit and deflected down. Those things were scorching hot when they struck short and tumbled down your collar.

[Multigunner]

There were limited production Tungsten Carbide core .30 AP made before Bonnie and Clyde went on their spree, could have been that stuff. The WW2 era AP used electronic furnace hardened steel cores.

The girlfriend of a different Motorized Bandit, forget his name, shot a Lawman (FBI?) hiding behind a tree with her boyfriends BAR. Bullets just zipped right through.
I've shot through trees with .30 AP and its amazing. I shot a bowling ball and the bullet passed through up to a fraction of an inch from complete penetration, the ball split and the nose of the core had melted from friction.

[1Shirt]

I also have seen hot cores drop into the pits from a hit someplace on the frame. Shot a lot of AP in M1's for practice. Never found it as accurate as ball however.
1Shirt!

[ph4570]

Very well done video.

[fatelk]

Fortunately, I found out without suffering any harm that the jackets will peel off and come back at you if you are not careful.

I wasn't so lucky. The scar between my eyes has faded to almost invisible over the decades, but in a box somewhere I still have the peeled-back jacket that came back and got me. If it had come back just an inch to the left my nickname could have been "Patch".

[MakeMineA10mm]

Wow! Nice job!!!

Excellent editting, adding WWII training film, good scientific process to the evaluation -- props all the way around! I will be watching your channel for sure!

[GREENCOUNTYPETE]

have you tried shooting the 13 inch oak log with anything else , I found that even the lowly 30-30 with cast bullets in a not particularly hot round was going thru a 9 inch oak log


you need a tree wider than you are to call it cover when you start shooting rifles at it
softer woods , well it's going to be hard to find a tree big enough.

this isn't the movies where a door jam and a few 2x4's stop bullets

when you get done with all your testing , it would be interesting to see how many shots at the same spot it takes to get thru that 8 inch concrete. looking at the crater of a hole it left , i am thinking 3
I would bet that with a bandolier of enblocs you could make swiss cheese of that wall making it lousy cover


thank you and very nice job

[xs11jack]

Very interesting and informative. The following posts scared me. I come across some military stuff now and then in my buying and trading. I will definity pass up any of that stuff. Didn't get to 71 taking big chances! I guess you could call the bounce back an involuntary suicide!!
Ole Jack

[MakeMineA10mm]

The key to bounce back is what your shooting at. Wood, dirt, sand and even water won't kick rounds back. (Water will allow deflections/ricochets in other directions, so not 100% good idea or "safe.") Very solid/massive rock and steel are the dangers. Ammo doesn't matter so much. I've had .22s come back at me off steel and rock. 7.62x39 lead core/steel jacket came back off a steel plate a buddy shot before I could tell him to quit. Distance don't matter a lot either. There's a youtube video of a guy shooting a .50-cal Barret at steel several hundred yards away, & the bullet came straight back and hit him in the head. Steel should either fall, bounce/move, or be angled down to deflect bullets into the dirt.

AP ammo is perfectly safe if you don't shoot steel or rock with it.

[smokemjoe]

Wow, I have been very lucky in my days, Joe

[Blacksmith]

My copy of Hatcher's Notebook is in the basement but IIRC .30-06 Ball ammunition after it goes far enough to become stabilized will penetrate 34" of oak. There are pictures of stable and unstable rounds penetrations in the book.

[MtGun44]

+1 on the stable versus unstable. IIRC the issue came up when they tested a
design for an Army rifle range and found that 150 gr M2 ball was reliably stopped
by 10-12" of dry oak timber (from mem). Later they started getting reports
that rounds were penetrating much deeper on real ranges. Turns out that
at 200-300 yds the bullets were so much more stable that they penetrated
very deeply. At the shorter testing distances, the bullets were still yawing
slightly and had not fully settled down, so they tumbled in the oak, leading
them to believe that this was an adequate thickness since it seemed that
the slower bullets at longer ranges should penetrate less. Turns out to not
be so.

Bill

[Blacksmith]

Hatcher update. I went and got my copy of Hatcher and the photographs are on pages 406 & 407 and the captions are as follows:

"Penetration of 32 1/2 inches of oak by .30-'06 bullet weighing 150 grains driven at a muzzle velocity of 2700 f.s. Range, 200 yards. The range was long enough so that the bullet was sufficiently stabilized to continue point first and thus give good penetration. At shorter ranges, the penetration is likely to be much less-see photo showing results at 50 feet."

"Penetration of 11 1/4 inches in oak by .30-'06 150 grain bullet driven at 2700 f.s., range, 50 feet. The penetration is much less than that achieved at longer ranges. The reason is that at this short range, the bullet had not settled down to a stable flight, and when it encountered the resistance of the oak it yawed badly, and rapidly gave up all its energy."

The picture of the badly yawed bullet did show a larger permanent cavity.