Won New Browning BPCR

[ColColt]

It appears I've just won a Browning 1885 BPCR in 45-70 today. Might know it that I gave away the only mold I had for a 45-70 several years ago thinking I wouldn't be getting another. So, now I'm going to have to get another. I don't know how well that one would have shot in the Browning as it was a Lyman 405 gr flat nose. I'm open for suggestions as to a good boolit for the Browning but think maybe the 457125 may be a good start. I have the Postell 535 gr but that may be a tad heavy,long for the Browning chamber.

[Guido4198]

For my BPCR I've been using the NEI "Badger-Browning" bullet. It comes out at 491 gns. using 30:1 alloy. Sized to .459,
with 67 gns. of ffg and SPG lube, it's almost boringly precise. Off sandbags, even with my aging eyes...I get a single big ragged hole at 200 yds.
I don't have a longer range to really wring it out and enjoy it.

[ColColt]

You can't beat that kind of group. I couldn't do that years ago with a custom built .270 Winchester. That mold must have been a group buy I didn't get in on at the time.

[montana_charlie]

That mold must have been a group buy I didn't get in on at the time.
That bullet mould is in the NEI catalog.

http://www.neihandtools.com/catalog/458-485-PB.jpg

[ColColt]

Thanks-with a group such as what was described I need to try it...good middle of the road weight also.

I noticed Tom of Accurate Molds has a very similar boolit such as the NEI. Not sure what a "bore rider" bands mean or why you'd want that.

http://www.accuratemolds.com/bullet_detail.php?bullet=46-485B-D.png

[country gent]

The postell shoots well in both my barrels a sharps pendersoli and a c sharps hepburn chambers are by pendersoli and c sharps very short throats. You already have the mold so it wont cost but some lead to try. 457125 is the old govt style bullet and should work well also. The bullet need to match up with the twist in the barrel also. Throat decides length and dia rifling twist rate decides bullet length or wieght.

[ColColt]

I don't know about the throats in these BPCRs. That Postell boolit is pretty long. Mine from Brooks measures 1.430" in length and from lower part of drive band to the tip is about .840". Unless I'm wrong, and that's quite possible, I think the twist is 1:18.

[CanoeRoller]

I think the Postell might work just fine. I have never been able the get the 457125 to shoot well in my favorite sharps, but each rifle is unique, that is the fun of BPCR.

A Bore rider is a boolit with the base matching the groove diameter of your barrel, and a bearing surface that matches the lands. The idea is to have a boolit that perfectly matches your barrel. Why would you want it? Because someone won a championship with it, so you feel that is the one thing you just gotta have to do the same.

[ColColt]

A Bore rider is a boolit with the base matching the groove diameter of your barrel, and a bearing surface that matches the lands. The idea is to have a boolit that perfectly matches your barrel. Why would you want it? Because someone won a championship with it, so you feel that is the one thing you just gotta have to do the same.

I understand that. What I was getting at was the bore rider part of the mold description. With that particular boolit you have essentially six bands. How many are really needed to "guide" the boolit to a degree of accuracy I don't know...always wondered about that. Would the base band plus, say one other band be enough? Apparently, you don't need all the bands in contact with the lands or the first band or two wouldn't be undersized. I'm surmising the bore rider permits seating the boolit further out before it contacts the lands.

[Gunlaker]

Your BPCR will have a 1:18 twist as you said. It will have zero freebore which some people like and some don't. I like the idea of a bullet with reduced driving bands in the front ( at bore diameter ) as I think they help align the bullet well with the bore. I don't shoot mine too much as I'm usually playing with my Montana built rifles, but mine seems to like a bullet with reduced driving bands in the front.

Chris.

[Don McDowell]

That rifle you bought will shoot the postell just fine, but it may just like the Saeco 645 bullet cast from 20-1 just a wee bit better, and it'll be a bit easier on the shoulder as well.

[Guido4198]

Like Gunlaker said: short/no throat...The rounds for my BPCR are seated all the way down. The top groove is inside the case. I believe C.O.L. is something like 2.64". Coincidentally...At the present time, I'm working up a load for an original 1873 Springfield Trapdoor. It has ALL kinds of freebore. I've made up dummy rounds looking for the point at which the bullet just kisses the lands. So far, I've gotten out to 2.94 and haven't found'em yet.

[ColColt]

The Saeco 645 is another good looking boolit. I noticed Graf and Sons has it in a 2-cavity mold. Lots of good choices as to molds and bullet weights/shapes. So far, the only problem is finding the brass. I looked around in my old stash and found a box of 20 Winchester 45-70 I had from years ago when I had the Rem. Rolling Block. I had marked them by 5's and found some were used with BP and others with a charge of 40 gr of 3031. I feel sure the brass is still good although I can't attest to how many times they were fired. Probably not many as I recall that 6 1/2-7 pound carbine was a real kicker. Actually, I was looking for a boolit in the 420-485 gr range as I recall well how that carbine punched you with a 500 gr boolit.

The Postell mold I got from Brooks came with an instruction sheet that indicated no form of antimony be used in your alloy. I suppose that's because the finished size of the boolit would change from the 1:30 alloy used when he cast a couple sample boolits that came with the mold. I think I have about half a pound of tin left...something else to purchase.

[CanoeRoller]

Would the base band plus, say one other band be enough? Apparently, you don't need all the bands in contact with the lands or the first band or two wouldn't be undersized. I'm surmising the bore rider permits seating the boolit further out before it contacts the lands.


You should be able to seat the bore rider out a bit farther, assuming your fouling does not get in the way. As far as the bands all in contact with the lands, I believe would be opening a can of discussion worms. I am sure there is lots of differing opinion on that one.

If in doubt, I like to stay with what has worked the longest. We tend to ignore what our forefathers knew. It takes the arrogance of youth to think you have figured out something they did not know.

[Gunlaker]

I just like bullets with reduced driving bands sometimes. You don't really need them that way. Unless I'm mistaken the Saeco bullet that Don mentions has all driving bands at groove diameter and it work well for him.

There are lots of ways to make this stuff work.

Chris.

[ColColt]

One thing I found out, these 530 or so grain boolits sure eat up a pot of lead in short order. I only had half a pound of tin so mixed it with ten pounds of lead and after leaving about half an inch in the pot I only managed getting around 75-85 boolits...some were culls.

[montana_charlie]

I only managed getting around 75-85 boolits...some were culls.
Now that you have some Postell bullets, put one in an empty case and seat it - a little at a time - until it just fully chambers in the rifle.

Then, you can examine the overall round, and take measurements which will help you decide if it a good bullet for your purposes.
If it must (because of chamber dimensions) seat 'too deep' in the case, then choose a design with 'bore rider bands' in the front.

'Too deep' can be defined as mechanically incorrect (in some way) as the bullet sits in the mouth.
Or, it can be defined as not leaving enough room for the desired powder charge.

But, it only makes sense to try what you already have before looking to get something else.

CM

[John Boy]

One thing I found out, these 530 or so grain boolits sure eat up a pot of lead in short order.Colt, there's an old saying ... You can run with the dogs or stay in the kennel. For plinking, 300gr's save on Pb. For Mid Range - 400gr's but for Long Range - 500grs plus work best for BPCR reloads

[ColColt]

My 45-90 had an OAL measurement of 3.205" but won't know about the Browning till it gets here. Since the Postell is the only .458-.459" boolit I have there's little choice right now. I'll check those measurents.

Well, JB, I reckon I need to run with the dogs...not being one to like the kennels. I'd say anything from about 450-535 gr should shoot well in this caliber.

Come to think of it, I found a large can full of unlubed 405 grainers I had from long ago. May as well try some of those since I have them.

[ColColt]

You know, either way you slice it, the 530 gr Postell boolit is a good looker and apparent performer. I knocked out close to 100 of these today and they're ready for the lube.

http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x220/ColColt/Gun%20Related%20Stuff/_DEF41511_zpsee5ba9fd.jpg (http://s180.photobucket.com/user/ColColt/media/Gun%20Related%20Stuff/_DEF41511_zpsee5ba9fd.jpg.html)

[ph4570]

Good cast and nice photo. Good luck with the new rifle. I sure like mine.

[ColColt]

A good macro lens helps. I like the Saeco 645 Don mentioned but the grooves look a bit shallow. Of course, it's a picture and hard to tell.

[Gunlaker]

I've used the longer version of that bullet and the grooves are smaller than a lot of bullets. My Shiloh shot well with them though.

Chris.

[Don McDowell]

Don't sweat the grease grooves on the 645 saeco, that bullet holds plenty of lube, and shoots quite well to 1023 yds. Might shoot good at longer ranges ,just haven't tried it further. Outside of it being to light for the Creedmoor matches at Raton, I can't think of a better greaser to shoot out of a 45-70.

[ColColt]

That's good enough for me. I'll place an order for one. Always looking for a reason to add to my stash and that's as good as any. Thanks for bringing that one to my attention. I never would have looked for a Saeco mold.

I hope it doesn't turn out like many Lyman molds being too small. I've had to beagle several because of that.

[Don McDowell]

The blocks we have for that one drops them just short of .459, works like a champ in the Winchester bpcr, and the Shiloh liked them pretty well. Never shot them from the C Sharps, but the fella that pointed them out to me shoots them quite well from a C Sharps 45-70

[Hiwall55]

My Browning shoots real small groups with the RCBS 530 RN. and my shooting partner shoots the NEI 545 gr. I'm sure any good bullet will work fine.

[Don McDowell]

Agree with hiwall on that 82084 rcbs bullet, shoots real well to 800, sometimes can give problems beyond that tho.

[ColColt]

I know most if not all Shiloh's in 45 cal have .458" barrels...not sure about the Winchester/Browning clan. I'll be anxious to try the 645 out. I ordered one from Buffalo Arms.

[CanoeRoller]

I pretty much use Postells for all my loads (40 and 45 cal) I do cast some military loads for fun and my stingy nature is always trying to reduce my lead usage, and yes, the Postell helps empty that lead pot in a hurry. I tried many slugs years ago, and found my scores at silhouette were much better with the Postells. Spitzers, hollow points, various 400 grain loads were all less consistent.

[ColColt]

This is my first experience with that bullet. I have noticed the OAL of the bullet cast from the Brooks mold is .010" longer than those I had from Buffalo Arms but is still the same 530 gr bullet...cast 1:20 that's what it weighs from the Brooks mold which is superb and about as good as it gets.