Patched ball

[OnHoPr]

Have you ever thought of putting a lubed pillow ticking patch or comparable patch on a round ball. Putting the patch on backwards so to speak as to put it on the ball and insert patch and ball inverted as to opposite of putting a ball and patch in a muzzle loader. Though into a shotgun hull. With the .600 ball and the 20ga and for the .715 ball for the 12ga the patch might need to be a bit thicker than .018. For the .690 ball maybe heavy denim.

[Blammer]

so then your patched ball fly's to the target with the patch on it?

[ovendoctor]

thinking about ''paper patching'' slugs

Doc.

[ovendoctor]

just gota get my er ''shooter'' to fire them off for me

Doc.

[OnHoPr]

Would it fly to the target or with the spin and air turbulence fly off the ball shortly after leaving the muzzle.

[ovendoctor]

muzzle loaders ya put the patch between the ball and powder

Doc.

[OnHoPr]

Yes, I know that. But putting the patch on backwards the and then in the hull the patch would flow out of the hull and into the forcing cone and stay on the ball down the barrel. The ball would still rest on a nitro card and wad column. With the single pressure point on the slug it would be less pervious to canting of the wad column when just exiting the barrel.

[ovendoctor]

give her a go and see what happens

Doc.

[longbow]

While it might just work and you are probably right that air drag would remove the patch, I am not seeing just how you would get that combination into the hull unless you used a very thin walled tube that just fit the hull and pre-loaded ball and patch into the tube muzzleloader style then pushed the patched ball into the hull in "reverse".

Also, one of the goals with smoothbore is to launch the ball with no spin at all and air drag removing the patch would almost certainly start a spin early which may well lead to "curve ball" like flight downrange.

Much easier to use a ball in a shotcup or donut wad.

I have patched 0.662" RB's into shotcups as they are undersize but that was done like patching for a muzzleloader, but into the hull. It was quick and easy and gave me excellent accuracy. 0.678" RB is a perfect fit into standard Winchester shotcups with no patching or shimming required.

Longbow

[OnHoPr]

longbow quote: Also, one of the goals with smoothbore is to launch the ball with no spin at all and air drag removing the patch would almost certainly start a spin early which may well lead to "curve ball" like flight downrange.

I was basically referring to a rifled barrel. Why will the ball not fly like the ball out of a muzzleloader? The only difference is the patch might spin off a touch after leaving the barrel instead of immediately.

[curator]

I use .018 pillow ticking patches with .585/.600 RBs in 20 gauge and .662/680 RBs in 12 gauge shotguns with excellent results. Both are loaded in AA "equivalent" shot columns and cylinder chokes. I also load .735 and the .018 pillow ticking patch in my rifled 12 gauge with all-brass shells. Excellent accuracy, clean bores, and no problems.

[stripercrazy]

muzzleloaders shooting balls like the slower twist rates like 1:66..... the inline muzzleloaders shooting saboted bullets are using 1:28 twist rate........I don't know what a shotgun's rate of twist is allthought I thought I read its like 1:30...which is too fast for balls in a lot of people's opinons.....a lot of my Thompson centers sidelocks have 1:48 twist

[stripercrazy]

Twist rate in inches...
Gauge..............................12ga.........20 ga.......Barrel Length

Tar-Hunt RSG........................28............23....... ..........23P
Browning A bolt Shotgun......32............NA.................22
Savage 210..........................35............NA..... ............24
Deerslayer II.........................28...........NA........ .......20,24
Deerslayer III........................28...........NA........ .........26
USH.......................................35...... ......28.................24
T/C Encore............................................ 24..................26
T/C Encore............................................ .......................24
T/C ProHunter......................................... .....................28
Winchester 1300.............................................. ..............22
Hastings................................34........ ....24
Mossberg 695.........................34.................... ............22P
Marlin 512 Slugmaster............28
Remington..............................35
Benelli M1..............................28

Note... P=Ported

[longbow]

Okay then slightly different fit and issues for rifled gun. I have only shot naked 0.735" ball is a rifled gun and those shot very well. Other than that I have no rifled gun experience.

I still have to ask how you will load the patched ball into the hull if the patch is on top of the ball. If you get it done then you are probably right that the patch will leave the ball and the ball should fly true.

curator appears to be having success using patched balls so I would ask him for any tips and tricks.

Longbow

[cpileri]

Not to risk thread drift, but would lubricating the patch for this purpose, smiliar to some muzzleloading shooting prefernces, be worthwhile?
I suppose one would need to either find a lube that would not fould the powder (ballistol? ox-yoke, borebutter) or else use a nice plastic gas seal and wad column to keep them seperate.

If the lubricant is only to keep black powder fouling soft, then this would be a no-go using smokeless; but if the lube would help the patch 'slide' down the bore in either s smoothe or slow-twist rifled barrel; maybe it could be somethign to try?
C-

[OnHoPr]

cpileri, not thread drift at all. Maybe just not enough info in the OP. I am/was referring to a gas seal, wad column, and nitro card below the inverted LUBED patched round ball. Such as a cut off federal wad seal or x12x gs or the like, (in my gun I haven't had luck with accuracy with the x12x though), then 1/2" hard card or felt, then nitro card/s, then the inverted lubed patched round ball. Or, just something like a Fed 12so, the a nitro card, then the lubed patched round ball. Inverting the lubed patch might help going from the hull to the forcing cone and/or lead since it isn't seated on the powder as in a muzzle loader. I have shot ragged one hole groups with my encore 50x209 (1 in 24) with a PRB at 50 yds and 90 gr of Pdex select and have seen those type of groups at a 100 with the 1 in 66.

curator wrote: I also load .735 and the .018 pillow ticking patch in my rifled 12 gauge with all-brass shells. Excellent accuracy, clean bores, and no problems.

You get a .735 and .018 pillow ticking in the brass case without bulging, then down the barrel? -- That is the relationship that had me wondering. Just like the .50 cal, .018 patch and a .490 ball, there is .026 of compression on the patch. So in relationship to lets say the .729 bore and a .715 ball you would need .021 patch material for .028 of patch compression. With the .690 ball you would need .034 of patch material for .029 patch compression.??

As for lubes in the muzzle loader I have tried maxi-lube, bore butter, and for my best results precision lube 2000. I haven't tried mink oil, bear grease, or deer tallow in the muzzle loader though. Also, I am not sure if the patch would need a light, heavy, or maybe an impregnated lube like one of the softer cast boolit lubes.