PDA

View Full Version : My review of BT Sniper's 45 to 500 S&W Magnum Die set



DukeInFlorida
06-26-2013, 04:19 PM
I received Brian's die set for converting 45 ACP brass into jackets for .500 S&W Magnum. This thread will document the very short learning curve for producing .500 S&W Magnum bullets.

When I approached Brian on this subject more than a year ago, I explained that my goal was to duplicate Hornady XTP style bullets. I sent him some Hornady XTP samples in .500 S&W Magnum, at 350 grains, for reference.

My patience has yielded amazing success. Using a proper weight core, the 350 grain result is easy to achieve, and the profile and nose design of the bullets is right on the mark!

The following is a step by step explanation of the sequence of operations. I will add images as I find the time. Please HOLD OFF making comments until I complete the review, since I may require more than one post (there's a limit to the length of each post) to complete the review.
------------------------- images have been added *** click on any to see larger image ---------------------------------

Step #1 - To anneal or not to anneal. I did my preliminary development with un-annealed brass. It seems to expand enough to give me proper final diameter, and correct nose formation. I will continue to produce these bullets using un-annealed brass. Of course, no nickle plated are allowed. You may find that annealing the 45 ACP brass makes life easier for you. I am going to be using small primer style 45 ACP in the future. I have been saving them for a while, for this purpose. The preliminary work was all done with large primer 45 ACP. NOte that there is a weight difference between the large primer brass and the small primer brass. For accuracy sake, use one or the other, but don't mix them.

Step #2 - Select a proper core. Brian sent me some reference cores, which were cast (pure lead) 45 caliber, at 263 grains. Those hit the combined (with the brass) weight at 350 grains. I already have a 44 caliber mold, which produces pure lead cores at 265 grains, and so I used that to cast cores. The slight difference in diameter is not making any difference in result. I am getting 350 grains, plus or minus a little bit. Close enough for 500 S&W Magnum work!

Step #3 - Expand the case. Brian supplies a crimp die insert, specifically for this purpose. I set the die so that the expander bottoms out in the brass, but just barely. I do this operation in a single station press, and leave the core swage and point form for the swaging die.
75425

Step #4 - Install the core. I bring the expanded brass to the swaging press, and seat the cores there. The core seat bottom punch is smaller in diameter than the point form bottom punch. I will be engraving CS on the edge of this bottom punch, to assure that I am using the correct punch. I manually place a core inside the brass, UPSIDE DOWN, and place that assembly on the bottom punch. Keep in mind that the bottom punch needs to fit INSIDE the brass to properly seat the core. Apply lube to the outside of the brass before sending it up into the die. I adjust the die on my Rockchucker swaging press until I feel maximum pressure right at "cam over". When seating the core, I leave the ram in the UP position for a couple of extra seconds, allowing the lead to flow completely. I get more consistent seating of the cores that way. The brass fills outwardly to match up with the ID of the die, which gets you most of the way to final proper diameter. I'm finding that there's about 1/8" of brass showing on the top of the seated core.
75426

Step #5 - Crimp the brass/core assembly. Again, I do this using the Crimp Die, and change out the insert to the crimp insert. For this 500 S&W Magnum crimp, I raise the ram, with the crimp die not yet installed, all the way to the top. I then screw in the crimp die until it just touches the brass. I lower the ram, and then rotate the die in 3 complete turns. That gives me a proper amount of crimp for this caliber.
75427

Step #6 - Point form. I adjust the die so that I get maximum pressure at cam over, and that seems to give me a perfect point forming result. The point form bottom punch is larger than the core seat punch. I will be engraving the point form punch with PF.
75428

Step #7 - Cannelure the bullets. My experience with the 500 S&W Magnum is that there is quite a LOT of recoil, and some mechanical connection between the 500 S&W Brass and the bullet has to be established to prevent the bullets from walking out of their cases, and locking up the cylinder. The standard crimp for the 500 S&W Magnum is a roll crimp. A cannelure provides for a place to roll crimp into. An option would be to use a Hornady Taper Crimp die, again, with the cannelure. The third option would be to use a Lee Factory Crimp Die, which will crimp the brass tightly to the bullet in every instance, with or without a cannelure.
75429

I am waiting for Brian to provide the method for rolling over the nose on these bullets, so that the nose perfectly matches the Hornady nose.

I have added images, you can click on any image to see larger details. My results are as good (or perhaps a bit better) than the preliminary samples Brian sent to me over a year ago. I am very happy. In addition to having 8 casting molds for the 500 S&W Magnum , I now also have a way to make jacketed bullets for my guns. Brian's workmanship on this set is outstanding!

Conn38B
06-27-2013, 09:20 AM
Thank you for posting! I am very much a newbee to the world of reloading and casting (started about a year ago) and just days ago learned of swaging. I own a S&W.500 and few .45's so I will be watching your post very closely. Thank you again for taking the time to share.

Bonz
06-27-2013, 09:37 AM
DukeInMaine*- I'd love to test fire some of them if you would be willing to share :-) I can cannelure them myself and save you the extra work

DukeInFlorida
07-05-2013, 06:17 AM
Update: Photos completed!

Hoping to get photos done today. I have a helper here for the day.

NHPaul
07-09-2013, 04:00 PM
Where can I get the die set to make these?

DukeInFlorida
07-10-2013, 10:55 AM
Contact BT Sniper (his telephone number is under his name on any of his posts), and ask him to make you a set.


Where can I get the die set to make these?

chloe123
10-16-2016, 11:57 AM
Years ago for you, but thanks for the reviews and detailed steps for swaging the 500 out of 45ACP brass, via BTSniper dies. I reached out to him before reading your post.

He responded to my PM quickly with a price tier to get started.

Sent 2 follow up PMs with questions. Also left a VM. No response as of this 'edit' date

Sasquatch-1
10-17-2016, 06:40 AM
To Brian or Duke, if you know the answer, Can these dies be used for the 50 AE? I don't know if the bullets have a different diameter.

475AR
10-17-2016, 10:33 AM
To Brian or Duke, if you know the answer, Can these dies be used for the 50 AE? I don't know if the bullets have a different diameter.

Yep, the 50AE is same bullet diameter.500, I use them in 50GI, 50AE, 500 S&W and soon 500JRH.:Fire:

bfuller14
10-17-2016, 10:40 AM
Sasquatch,
Forgive me, I"m not Brian or Duke but my information shows .500 for both.
I have both and am going to make bullets for them both.
500 S&W shows 300gr.-500gr.
50 A&E shows 300gr.-325gr.

DukeInFlorida
10-17-2016, 10:58 AM
I would direct you to your reloading data book. I like to use the Hornady book for these loads, since the results are virtually the exact same as the Hornady XTP bullets. My Hornady book shows that the bullet diameters are the same for 50 AE and the 500 S&W Magnum. So, check your load data book for details on preferred final bullet weights. The weights are easily adjusted by how much lead core you install.


To Brian or Duke, if you know the answer, Can these dies be used for the 50 AE? I don't know if the bullets have a different diameter.

BT Sniper
10-18-2016, 12:10 AM
Here is a good thread on the .500 cal bullets as well with these bullets being shot in a 50AE!

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?134219-500-bullet-from-45-ACP

Yes they will work perfect in any .500 cal application and this is one of those die sets that pays for it's self very quickly with the cost of the big commercial .500 cal jacketed bullets on the market!

Swage on!

BT

chloe123
10-19-2016, 11:03 AM
I had written Brian (BTSniper) follow up questions regarding this 500 Swage kit. I was ready to purchase this set. Duke, Brian, or anyone else using this ACP brass to form 500 bullets, are you successfully expanding the case head (base) to .500? There was a gas cutting concern. can someone elaborate on the final bullet dimensions

475AR
10-20-2016, 10:19 AM
I had written Brian (BTSniper) follow up questions regarding this 500 Swage kit. I was ready to purchase this set. Duke, Brian, or anyone else using this ACP brass to form 500 bullets, are you successfully expanding the case head (base) to .500? There was a gas cutting concern. can someone elaborate on the final bullet dimensions

I think I still have a couple bullets made up and will measure them at the base (above the rim) but the couple hundred I have shot from 800-1900fps had no issues.

BT Sniper
10-24-2016, 01:50 PM
I had written Brian (BTSniper) follow up questions regarding this 500 Swage kit. I was ready to purchase this set. Duke, Brian, or anyone else using this ACP brass to form 500 bullets, are you successfully expanding the case head (base) to .500? There was a gas cutting concern. can someone elaborate on the final bullet dimensions

Yes it is possible to expand the rim of the case (base of the bullet) to full .500 diameter. Of course a stronger press will certainly help this task or use of specific tooling but out of all the brass we use to make bullets from the 45 acp is a good one. The 45 ACP case has a thin web (low pressure round) compared to the 9mm and 40 S&W and as such it is much easier to get the base to swage out to full diameter. I don't really see gas cutting as a potential concern with these .500 bullets made from 45ACP brass. The barring surface of the bullet is certainly going to be at the proper diameter of .500 so even if the base was a few thousands small....... wouldn't it be the same as shooting boat tail bullets?

I just don't see there being any problems with these awesome .500 cal bullets made from 45 ACP brass. I have no problem swaging the base of these bullets to the full .500 diameter and the savings in shooting these bullets compared to the expensive commercial offerings is quite substantial and the results are every bit as good.

These are awesome bullets and very easy to make, I say give it a try! I'm certain you and anyone else will be very glad they did.

Good shooting and swage on!

BT

DukeInFlorida
10-28-2016, 05:23 PM
I have no problem getting the 45acp brass to bump out to full diameter. I have tried running these without the annealing mid-step, and even that worked. I get best results when I anneal the brass. Have been using the otherwise worthless (to me) small primer 45 acp brass to make my 500 mag bullets.
I shoot thousands of these per year, and haven't even touched the very expensive box of Hornady XTP bullets that they emulate. My favorite load involves Trailboss powder for light recoil. Otherwise, LilGun duplicates full house factory loads.
The cost of the XTP version is what kept me from using jacketed bullets, once preferring cast lead for virtually all my 500 S&W magnum loads. Now, with the success of the 45acp > 500 S&W mag jacketed bullets, virtually all my cast Boolits use has ceased with this size cartridge.