Computer advice needed

[Petrol & Powder]

I can detail strip and reassemble a Remington Model 51 pistol and a Berretta 92 on the same bench at the same time but I'm about dumb as a brick when it comes to computers. I need help.
I'm looking for something that is small, like a tablet, but has a keyboard, like a laptop. I know I can add a keyboard to a tablet but I'd rather have it attached.
I don't need blinding speed, I don't play video games or watch full length movies on a computer. I do need to have some type of E-reader (like Kindle, Nook, etc.) and I need basic internet ability to check e-mail, surf websites and GPS mapping would be a cool plus.
I kinda like the size/price of the Kindle Fire but it lacks a keyboard. I don't want a full size laptop because I need to carry it while traveling.

Any suggestions would be appreciated.

[Dale in Louisiana]

I had an ASUS netbook that was exactly as you describe. Mine ran Windows 7, cost around $250. It had a 3/4 size keyboard, on-board hard drive, a battery that would last for hours, and built in wireless.

Being a Windows machine, you can download Kindle for Windows as well as other programs that will support e-books.

You might want to check out Amazon on-line, or Tiger Direct or NewEgg or any of a dozen other vendors.

dale in Louisiana
(iPad, MacBook Pro, iEverything Else)

[454PB]

I bought an Acer Aspire netbook for my wife three years ago, she uses it everyday for several hours, and we have had zero problems with it. While not nearly as light and small as a tablet, it does everything you want to do.

[Petrol & Powder]

Sound good. Thanks!

[Petrol & Powder]

I bought an Acer Aspire netbook for my wife three years ago, she uses it everyday for several hours, and we have had zero problems with it. While not nearly as light and small as a tablet, it does everything you want to do.

that's cool too. Any guess on how heavy they are?

[boltaction308]

If you dont know much about computers, you are far better off getting a Mac. You can get a laptop and add a normal PC monitor and keyboard for use at your desk.

[khmer6]

PM me. I can help you find a product that fits you. (I'm not a salesman) you might be looking into a convertible. Lots of new product for 2013. Haswell and clover trail has brought power consumption to a new age.

[fortysomething]

I don't know if it fits your use or budget, but you may want to check out the MacBook Air. They have a small one with an 11.6" screen and very thin. Made with travel in mind. I am sure there are Windows-based tablets or computers that would work for you as well, but I haven't shopped those in a while.

[grumman581]

I don't know if it fits your use or budget, but you may want to check out the MacBook Air. They have a small one with an 11.6" screen and very thin. Made with travel in mind. I am sure there are Windows-based tablets or computers that would work for you as well, but I haven't shopped those in a while.

"Friends don't let friends buy Macs..." :)

Now, having said that, I would also have to say that I am not a fan of of the user interface of Win8 either. I was perfectly happy with Win2K and the further we go along, the more difficult it is more me to massage the user interface so that it still looks kind of like Win2K.

[Skipper]

Check out the Surface:

http://www.microsoft.com/surface/en-us/surface-with-windows-rt/

[Petrol & Powder]

The MacBook Air is beyond what I want to spend. I like the size/cost of the ASUS and Acer makes, but don't know much about them. Got a desktop at home with Wi-Fi in the house so the netbook would be a second device at home and a primary when on the road.
All good intel. THANKS!

[grumman581]

I have found that quite a few websites do not handle touch screen devices all that well. I have an iPad (it was a gift from my brokerage company for investing a certain amount in a brokerage account) and as such, I have a bit of experience with it. There is NO WAY that I would actually BUY an iPad. It is not a replacement for a PC -- which is kind of sad since Apple started out with a decent operating system (UNIX) and then lobotomized it to take all the useful things out of it. They even removed the mouse driver out of the version that they put on the iPad, so even if you have a Mac bluetooth mouse, it won't work with it. I view the iPad as basically a replacement for a portable DVD player, but without the capability of actually being able to play DVDs (unless you convert them to a video file on a REAL computer and then transfer them to the iPad). Although the display is nice, it's too small to read without zooming in on many web pages and then you have to pan from side to side to read the text.

I have also used Android smartphones and they are a bit better, but the screen is too small for my old eyes. Then again, I think that the iPad's screen is also too small. It kind of sucks -- the screen is too small to read with old eyes, but it's too big to carry around in a pocket. If I'm only going to be gone a couple of days and don't expect to need to get anything productive accomplished, I'll just take the iPad and smartphone, but if I foresee actually having to do something useful, I'll take a real laptop with me -- one with a real keyboard and real mouse / trackball.

Whether you use an iPad, Android tablet, laptop, or smartphone, you can put an e-book reader application on it and read various e-book formats. If I'm going to be outside in the bright sun, I prefer one of the black-and-white type Kindle devices. Their battery lasts long enough that I'm unlikely to even bother bringing a charger with me. It is a bit smaller than an iPad and is probably the maximum size that will fit in a jacket pocket. It's light enough that your coat won't noticeably hang low on one side either. But it is basically just an e-book reader. Although it has a rudimentary web browser in it that can display static pages, actually interacting with those web pages is painful.

With a PC based laptop, you can actually accomplish real work, but the battery might not last long enough for a long flight. That might not be an issue for you since many aircraft have electrical outlets under their seats these days.

If you are willing to pay a little more money, there are some rather lightweight laptops with smaller screens (albeit with good resolution). I have used one of these, but I had to wear reading glasses to make the fonts large enough to be able to read them. Some are called "netbooks" and save weight be eliminating or reducing the size of various things. With a smaller screen, it uses less power, thus they can get by with a smaller battery pack. The reduced size of the screen and the reduced size of the battery pack both save a noticeable amount of weight.

There is no one solution that will fit all your needs. You just need to determine what is most important to you and whether you can live with the disadvantages associated with it. :(

[Three-Fifty-Seven]

then ...

[Petrol & Powder]

Grumman581 - I think you hit the nail on the head. I've played with an ipad or two but found the touch screen to be a pain when navigating web pages. I have a work iphone issued to me and that screen is fairly useless for reading text. So a slightly bigger screen and something with real keys seems to be the way for me. I don't know much about netbooks but from what people are saying, they seem to be where I'm heading. Thanks for the input.

[khmer6]

Macs would be out of the question as a secondary budget device. The idea of the surface rt is nice but not having a real computer operating system is a killer. There are some nice 10-12" touch screen windows 8 pro convertible tablet/networks out there. Touch screen with a physical keyboard. If you do end up getting a network, at least make sure it's running the latest Intel atom processor. The clover trail. I got to test drive a prototype of the HP elite pad 900 a few months ago. Really nice feel to it, I was blown away by the new atom (I had followed it since it's infancy years ago) I had expected it to be super slow, but the prototype cpu was pretty snappy. I thought Intel might up juiced it up for a prototype, but when I got a production model it was the same experience.

[Dale in Louisiana]

"Friends don't let friends buy Macs..." :)

Now, having said that, I would also have to say that I am not a fan of of the user interface of Win8 either. I was perfectly happy with Win2K and the further we go along, the more difficult it is more me to massage the user interface so that it still looks kind of like Win2K.

Haters gonna hate...

Low budget: That Acer Aspire One starts out at around $250 on line. I had one. Used it as my 'road machine' at hotels for a couple of years so I didn't have to unlimber my company laptop. Both were running Windoze, the Aspire was running W7, the company machine XP. Now the company-supplied machine has been 'upgraded' to W7.

The iPad was never meant to be a replacement for a laptop. I tried using it to replace my Aspire netbook. It did not make the cut.

After twenty years in the Windows world I went back to Apple. I'm very happy there. MY MP Pro dual boots is I have an aneurysm that makes me want to run Windows at home.

But for our original poster, I heartily recommend that Acer Aspire.

dale in Louisiana

[theperfessor]

I have an iPad, iPhone, and several computers. The best distinction I can make was what a friend of mine said. iPads are not content generators, they are content readers, great for reading data but pretty lame on generating it. No real spreadsheet or word processor app that's worth a diddly.

I love my iPad, but it's pretty limited compared to a real computer. And w/o a USB port it sucks trying to transfer data.

[grumman581]

Haters gonna hate...

Perhaps, but one thing that you have to remember -- liberals are more likely to own Apples than Windoze machines... You don't want someone mistaking your for a braindead liberal, do you?

Given a choice, I'll take a UNIX machine... I started with UNIX back in the days when we just had VT100 terminals... The Apple O/S could be a good one if they hadn't intentionally lobotomized it because they wanted to protect the users from themselves. I guess that kind of explains why it is used by more Democrats...

[grumman581]

I have an iPad, iPhone, and several computers. The best distinction I can make was what a friend of mine said. iPads are not content generators, they are content readers, great for reading data but pretty lame on generating it. No real spreadsheet or word processor app that's worth a diddly.

I love my iPad, but it's pretty limited compared to a real computer. And w/o a USB port it sucks trying to transfer data.

I installed a spreadsheet app on it and although it does kind of work, it's a real pain in the butt to use. You have to zoom nearly to the cell level to do anything and you can't just tab between cells. I had thought that it might be useful for a calculator for measuring lead hardness, but I eventually just setup an old out of date laptop attached to a scanner as a dedicated lead hardness testing machine.

[MtGun44]

Macs are fascist. If you do it the way that they will allow you, and do WHAT they
will allow you, you are fine. Otherwise, impossible. Win 8 is heading in that direction, try
HARD to get a Win 7 machine, it is great. I have a HP Mini 400, not super fast but
small and light. Like my brother's IRRITATING iPad but with a keypard and stand
built in. Wife has laptop too and Galaxy tablet 7 inch. Galaxy tb 7.0 is useful but
limiting, limited compared to a PC, expecially if you can actually type and want a
real keyboard.

Macs work but REALLY are irritating. My way or the highwasy is their worldview.
I like the freedom and occasionally near-anarchy of the PC world. You can get a
PC to talk to and link to and run ANYTHING. Libs use MACs and Repubs use PCs
is not entirely true but there is a grain of fact there. If you like the gov't taking
care of everything (and telling you how to run your life) you'll probably like a MAC.

Try hard for Win 7, Win 8 is a phone app trying to be a MAC Os. ICK. I have
set up two systems for non/limited computer folks and really, really dislike the
Win 8 overlay user interface. The tools are still there once you get thru the top
layer of carp but it is NOT an improvement. Unless you think a PC is a phone.

Read the perfesser's comments - dead on. If you enter data and create content
an iPad sucks, same for Galexy Tab 7, they both view pix well, browse and email
"OK". If you are competent on the desktop and want portable size, and full
capability, the Mini HP or other brands are the way to go. Do not confuse a
Kindle of any kind with a computer, it is a reader and computer funtions are
limited to selling you stuff thru Amazon.

Final point, like any government system (they are not, but are behave like) MACs are
twice as espensive, roughly.

Bill

[grumman581]

Try hard for Win 7, Win 8 is a phone app trying to be a MAC Os.

LMAO!!! So true... I'll take a nice clean Win2K interface any day... Well, at least if I can't get a nice clean basic X-Windows interface on a UNIX box...

[khmer6]

There are downgrade license if you don't like win8. Honestly its just a learning curve. Win8 is a lot more effective than 7. W8 gets a lot of bad rap from people that only reviewed it by watching commercials.

[theperfessor]

When the university bought me a new office computer last year they would not buy a Win8 machine and our IT depertment still doesn't support it. No problem with me, I don't WANT my computer to look like a cell phone on steroids.

If you're a home user you probably won't notice it as much but if you have a lot of expensive engineering related programs that take 6 months to two years for the vendor to get to run right on a new OS you would learn to loathe "new and improved".

[grumman581]

There are downgrade license if you don't like win8. Honestly its just a learning curve. Win8 is a lot more effective than 7. W8 gets a lot of bad rap from people that only reviewed it by watching commercials.

When you get beyond the GUI, the base portion of the operating system has not changed that much from the Win2K days. They move things around to new menu locations (so that you can't find it) and then tweak the GUI a bit to make it look different and thus you think it is an entirely new O/S. In my professional opinion, they should separate the user interface (i.e. window manager) and base portion of the operating system so that a user can get third party window managers if he so chooses. You should also be able to do any system administration operation from the command line. Of course, UNIX uses this technique and there are quite a few different window managers that you can choose to use or you can still go with a basic command line interface if you are running a server and don't want to waste the memory on a GUI. Personally, I like the flexibility of being able to choose my window manager if I so desire.

I have services that I developed for Windows servers from back in the Win2K days that are still running with no changes even after the servers were "upgraded" to WinXP, WinVista, Win7, and now Win8. That's 13 years of running without needing any changes. Same with daemon processes that I have developed for various UNIX versions over the years. It's possible to write generic code that will survive system upgrades if you are willing to put the effort into it. Too many developers these days want to use the (supposedly) latest and greatest feature of an operating system or a compiler and end up finding out that the feature is not supported in a future release of the O/S or compiler.

[DCP]

I also have a ASUS netbook with a 11.6" HD screen with the key board ... up to nine hours of battery

Its a great machine

[quilbilly]

If you dont know much about computers, you are far better off getting a Mac. You can get a laptop and add a normal PC monitor and keyboard for use at your desk.
Macs are more expensive but they are so much more user friendly for people like you and me who use the computer but don't want to make it a lifestyle keeping it going.

[grumman581]

Macs are more expensive but they are so much more user friendly for people like you and me who use the computer but don't want to make it a lifestyle keeping it going.

And some people prefer automatics over manual transmissions... Never been able to understand that either...

[Petrol & Powder]

Perhaps, but one thing that you have to remember -- liberals are more likely to own Apples than Windoze machines... You don't want someone mistaking your for a braindead liberal, do you?

Given a choice, I'll take a UNIX machine... I started with UNIX back in the days when we just had VT100 terminals... The Apple O/S could be a good one if they hadn't intentionally lobotomized it because they wanted to protect the users from themselves. I guess that kind of explains why it is used by more Democrats...

I know some liberals, maybe I could put on some Birkenstocks and infiltrate? Probably not, most of them know me already.....

[grumman581]

Just walk around with your head up your http://castboolits.gunloads.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=51361&d=1271746128 and you'll fit right in... They'll think that you are one of them... :)

It's still OK to bash liberals around here, isn't it? They haven't become some sort of protected species or something, right? :)

[Petrol & Powder]

All good stuff folks, Thanks.
I think I'll start my search for an ASUS "netbook". That seems to be close to what I want/need. It's not primary computer but I would like a keyboard. I've played with I-pad's and such but just don't care for the touch pad keyboard. I have an I-phone (I think it's an I-phone 4? ) courtesy of my employer, so I've played with both PC and Apple O/S. I'm a bit more comfortable with PC stuff. I really appreciate the input and advice.


P.S. Grumman581 - my personal vehicles have manual transmissions because that was what I wanted:grin:

[jmort]

I have been using "Net Books" for the last four years. Keyboard is smaller but I have prepared many documents with mine. Get one with Windows 7. I have an external DVD drive I can use when necessary and my newest one has HDMI output for hook-up to TV.

[DougGuy]

Don't worry about win8, you can get a free app called Classic Shell that gets rid of that horrid Metro screen and puts a start menu on there like XP. I am a PC builder/hot rodder/tweaker and I run stripped down versions of XP which are killer (184mb .iso) and stripped version of win7 (700mb) which is small and kicks butt, and I can get my win8 machines to look and run like earlier windows versions pretty easy. Most trouble free is likely win7, and because Microshaft is really pushing win8, it will be hard to find one with win7 on it.

Default factory installs like Dell, HP, are all BLOATWARE. They are just pathetic how bloated and stupid they are. Get the Asus laptop, or one with intel duo core or quad core, but get someone to run a standalone install on it and you will have a lot less headache with it and it will run it's behootie off. Don't get a mac.

[mroliver77]

I have an Acer Aspire that was a gift. Smaller than a laptop with all the features except CD. I run a bible program that is cool. I have kindle and other readers on it. Pretty decent battery life!
J

[DCP]

I also have a ASUS netbook with a 11.6" HD screen with the key board ... up to nine hours of battery

Its a great machine

Its a 10.1 screen. Android based you can get a app for Amazon Kindle and a lot more
15 hrs. on with the keyboard

[Airman Basic]

Anybody found a new net book lately. Mostly high dollar ultra books in the smaller screen sizes that I prefer.

[Dale in Louisiana]

If you think you can get people irate over formulas for boolit lube, let's start in over Mac vs. PC.

dale in Louisiana
(Multi-lingual: Mac, Windoze, DOS, Linux)

[grumman581]

If you think you can get people irate over formulas for boolit lube, let's start in over Mac vs. PC.

dale in Louisiana
(Multi-lingual: Mac, Windoze, DOS, Linux)

"Sheep tallow!!!"

"NO!!! BEEF tallow!!!"

If you REALLY want to start a war, let's discuss what constituted REAL BBQ...

[Dale in Louisiana]

"Sheep tallow!!!"

"NO!!! BEEF tallow!!!"

If you REALLY want to start a war, let's discuss what constituted REAL BBQ...

No argument there. Real barbecue starts out with four legs. Texas does it best, not that the folks in Tennessee don't do some good ribs, though.

dale in Louisiana

[MtGun44]

Latest Kindle B&W is truly awesome reader, but it is NOT a computer. I have not gotten
to the point that I want a reader. I like PAPER books, but I have to admit that the
latest super version of their 'electric paper' is awesome technology. VERY sharp,
VERY easy to read in bright sunlight and battery lasts forever.

+1 one on dreading upgrades! Win8 being superior to Win7 is BS. Win7 is very, very
stable and works very well on my new desktop bought right after I set up the Win8 ***
for my father-in-law. He is 95 in July and pretty darned good for his age, but
I did set up tiles for him. He can use them, but even he preferred the old way, and the
tile apps were a GIANT pain in the butt to set up and far more limited in capability
compared to my wonderful Win 7 machine. If I had to get a Win8, I'd jump on the
Win7 downgrade instantly and consider myself lucky. Win8 will NEVER make it in
the corporate world. We use Win7 at work (engineering) and they are saying they
will skip Win8 and wait for the expected replacement workplace OS. Win8 is a joke
for serious use - I really mean it when I say it is a phone OS. If you think a smart
phone does everything you will ever need, you will love Win8. If you use a computer
for more than facebook and checking your e-mail, you will hate it.

I also just bought an awesome new Honda Accord with a 6 speed manual - hard to
find, but I despise automatics, as does my wife.

Bill

[grumman581]

No argument there. Real barbecue starts out with four legs. Texas does it best, not that the folks in Tennessee don't do some good ribs, though.

dale in Louisiana

BBQ is a religion in Texas -- complete with animal sacrifices, priests in vestments, anointing with liquids (fermented libations), etc...

But we know that the only holy meat is beef -- beef brisket to be precise. Although orthodox Texas BBQ is smoked over mesquite , there are fringe sects here that believe that you should use various sacrilegious woods like hickory, pecan, and even oak. Heretics, all of them...

[Ajax]

I have a dell net book running Linux mint and it screams and does everything i have ever asked it to do. I dual boot cause there is still some programs that require windows. 90% of all my computing is done in Linux.


Andy

[theperfessor]

Hoosier BBQ in all its varieties is pretty good too. Ribs, chicken, pulled pork, ummmmmmm.....

Haven't tried Texas BBQ, maybe one of these days.

[gmsharps]

Don't forget that the notebooks do not have a CD or DVD reader or burner on board. You will need to get an external CD/DVD player/burner. Other wise it will be difficult to load your software. They are not that expensive and of course if you are traveling you could leave it at home. Also getting a wireless mouse makes life a bit easier than using the little pad on the notebook. Just remember the limitations you get with the notebook. Limited Ram, slower processor, smaller hard drive. The big advantages are better portability.

gmsharps

[Petrol & Powder]

Hoosier BBQ in all its varieties is pretty good too. Ribs, chicken, pulled pork, ummmmmmm.....

Haven't tried Texas BBQ, maybe one of these days.

My criteria is that a good meal requires the death of at least two different types of animals.

[Mal Paso]

For all the Apple Owners:

"You're Holding It Wrong" - Steve Jobs

[Petrol & Powder]

Awesome advice from all.
Here's what I seem to be down to:

ASUS 1015E-DS01, 10" screen, 7.5 battery life at $250.00
or
ASUS VivoBook X202E-DH31T-PK, 11.6" TOUCHSCREEN !, about 5 hours battery life, $450.00

I'm struck with Windows 8 on any new computer.

I'm a truly cheap Bas***d and hate to spend money, but I will when I think it's worth it. For something that is seldom, if ever, going to be operated with a mouse; that touchscreen is a really nice addition. It still has an attached real keyboard that I can't lose and it's the right size/weight. It's just $200 more, ******.

The 1015E is about the right in terms of power/size/battery life and cost.
If I hadn't played with that touchscreen model I'd blissfully ignorant and likely buy the ASUS 1015E

[DougGuy]

+1 one on dreading upgrades! Win8 being superior to Win7 is BS. Win7 is very, very
stable and works very well on my new desktop bought right after I set up the Win8 ***
for my father-in-law. He is 95 in July and pretty darned good for his age, but
I did set up tiles for him. He can use them, but even he preferred the old way, and the
tile apps were a GIANT pain in the butt to set up and far more limited in capability
compared to my wonderful Win 7 machine.
Bill

Bill try Classic Shell, it's free and does away with that horrid tiled/metro desktop, puts an XP/Win7 style start menu on there and makes win8 actually liveable.. http://www.classicshell.net/

http://i1202.photobucket.com/albums/bb374/DougGuy/Win8DesktopClassicShell_zpse4f66bdd.jpg (http://s1202.photobucket.com/user/DougGuy/media/Win8DesktopClassicShell_zpse4f66bdd.jpg.html)

[MattOrgan]

I was as anti Apple as could be for years. Then I got tired of Microsoft and all of their issues, restarts, viruses etc. My wife ordered me an iPad for work a little over two years ago. After a short learning curve I am hooked. DAYS of battery life, fast, no virus issues, touch screen is a revelation.

Small light weight, rugged, automatic free upgrades and fixesfrom the "cloud" Apps for everything so I have not found the need for a CD drive. Apple supports is outstanding, especially in their stores. I have the wireless keyboard, it might weigh a pound and is easy to use and travel with.

Add an air printer and you are ready to go. No, I have not drunk the Koolaid, my cell is a Droid, and is a much better phone than the Apple product. But my calendar scheduling contact info is automatically shared between phone and pad. I have the wifi hotspot on my phone and Internet everywhere I go.

From my laptop days I know you get what you pay for in product life and function.

[grumman581]

I was as anti Apple as could be for years. Then I got tired of Microsoft and all of their issues, restarts, viruses etc. My wife ordered me an iPad for work a little over two years ago. After a short learning curve I am hooked. DAYS of battery life, fast, no virus issues, touch screen is a revelation.

Small light weight, rugged, automatic free upgrades and fixesfrom the "cloud" Apps for everything so I have not found the need for a CD drive. Apple supports is outstanding, especially in their stores. I have the wireless keyboard, it might weigh a pound and is easy to use and travel with.

Add an air printer and you are ready to go. No, I have not drunk the Koolaid, my cell is a Droid, and is a much better phone than the Apple product. But my calendar scheduling contact info is automatically shared between phone and pad. I have the wifi hotspot on my phone and Internet everywhere I go.

From my laptop days I know you get what you pay for in product life and function.

The iPad is not a replacement for a laptop though. Well, not if you do anything more than just browsing on web sites (and it's not that great even at that in my opinion). It's a media player at best... Well, as long as you don't have your media on CD or DVD... Apple started out with the mindset that their users were too stupid to handle more than one button on a mouse. With the iPad, they have made something for people who can't even handle ONE mouse button. :(

You don't eliminate viruses with an Apple, you just get different types of viruses.

When that battery finally dies on the iPad, what are you going to do? It's not like with a REAL laptop where you order off for a new one from numerous other suppliers and then pop it in very easily. You will either send it off to Apple for replacement (at an inflated price, just like all other Apple products) or you attempt to take the iPad apart without breaking any of the tabs or any of the thin wires.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qnjtvMCndcw

Compare that video to what it takes to swap out the battery on a laptop...

Sorry, but it's a braindead design.

My iPad was free and even at that price, I think I overpaid... :(

[khmer6]

My 64gb iPad was free too. I gave it to my two year old after loading a bunch of games movies and Netflix on it. He cracked his screen. Replacement was as easy as stripping down a 1911

[MtGun44]

DougGuy,

Thanks for the info on the ClassicnShell. Is this from MicroSoft? I will pass it on on
to my sister. I have managed to avoid Win8 for my self so far, but will keep that in mind.

Bill

[Jammersix]

iPad.

[H.Callahan]

DougGuy,

Thanks for the info on the ClassicnShell. Is this from MicroSoft? I will pass it on on
to my sister. I have managed to avoid Win8 for my self so far, but will keep that in mind.

Bill
No, not from Microsoft, but an EXCELLENT product, nonetheless. I have been using it a long time with Win7 to provide back some of the functionality Microsoft removed from Explorer in Vista/Win7. It fixes several stupid design decisions Microsoft made after XP. I highly recommend it.

[MtGun44]

Microsoft yesterday announced Win 8.1 - which has the start button and normal user interaction
capability restored. Apparently available as a beta now or soon and will be standard in a while, I
didn't really follow the details, too busy LMAO about how their stupid plan imploded on them,
and how obvious it was to anyone that uses a computer for WORK rather than play that Win 8
was DOA.

Bill

[H.Callahan]

Microsoft yesterday announced Win 8.1 - which has the start button and normal user interaction
capability restored.Apparently, though, the 8.1 "start" button does not go to a traditional start menu, but instead goes to that gawd-awful Metro page. I wish Microsoft would get its collective excrement together. They seem to shoot themselves in the foot about every other release anymore. I was reading in our paper today that the industry sees Windows 8 as the main cause of the 14% drop in PC sales since its release-- the worst drop since 1994.

I just wish Linux would get popular...

[khmer6]

I don't see that as the decline in PC sales. The traditional PC is dead. In the world of mobile devices some people don't want to fork over money for another device when all they do is casually browse the internet and already have something like a phone. Cellular is catching up to home broadband as well. Personally I don't even the start menu in w7 as I thought I did

[Petrol & Powder]

After taking from the advice and wisdom offered and playing with several demo's, I finally pulled the trigger and purchased the ASUS Q200E. In the end, the touch screen capability won out in my decision process. Time will tell if this was a good call or not. If it fails as a good portable machine I can always relegate it to the house as a desktop backup. I really liked the ASUS 1015E for it's lower price and longer run time but being solely reliant on that touch pad seemed like a handicap for an "on the road" device.
Thanks to everyone for their input- I took a little from each comment.

I don't have time to play with the new device today so I'll charge it a little and try to get familiar with it this weekend.

Thanks to all.

[ReloaderEd]

Wow lots of imput. I have used a Dell 10" for a long time now. I just upped rhe memory to 2 gigs. In my opinion you can spend anywhere between $150 - $3000 and everything ylu need. What costs is the processor and availble speed. I would say a minimum of 4 gigs of memory expandable to at least 6 gigs is absolute. Hard Drives for the most part are hugh on most new models. I use my galaxey phone now to check email etc..
Nottebooks are of age now. Remember newer cheaper model are coming. Year old models are cheaper and will do the job. Used rebuilt Dells are availble on ebay and that is where I would buy. Me, just sitting here for the next computer form. Be Safe

[khmer6]

The performance gap of top of the line CPU 2 years ago and today is minmal. So a few generations behind might still be just as good. Just have to double check the specs. The CPU game has changed A LOT since sandy bridge

[grumman581]

I don't see that as the decline in PC sales. The traditional PC is dead. In the world of mobile devices some people don't want to fork over money for another device when all they do is casually browse the internet and already have something like a phone. Cellular is catching up to home broadband as well. Personally I don't even the start menu in w7 as I thought I did

It's not that the traditional PC is dead, it's more of a case of there being alternatives for people who should never have had access to computers from the beginning. If you want to do any REAL work, you will have a PC. If not, then the glorified phones and media players are more than enough for you. Personally, I don't have a problem with these people not having REAL PCs since it means that I don't have to help them when they screw up things. Some people can handle a stick shift and some people NEED an automatic.

[grumman581]

The performance gap of top of the line CPU 2 years ago and today is minmal. So a few generations behind might still be just as good. Just have to double check the specs. The CPU game has changed A LOT since sandy bridge

The biggest change was from the 8088 to the 80286 as far as I'm concerned. The 80286 was something like 6 times faster. Since then, the increase in speed between generations has been a LOT less spectacular.

[MtGun44]

+1 on grumman581.

Most people have ZERO need for a computer, they want a game/ video/ picviewer/phone/netbrowser thingamabob - and have used a computer to
do that job for some time. They are leaving PCs for phones and all these
other tools - which are NOT computers.

Those of us that earn a living creating content, designing, making, shipping and such NEED a REAL
PC that can do a lot of standard software like Word, Excel, Powerpoint, various databases and
lots of specialized applications like engineering simulation. These silly little Win8 toys are not
business tools, and a big chunk of the market is for business tools. Win8 is/was never a viable
business tool. It is a phone OS and intended to do a few simple things more easily for a person
that does NOT want to use "computer stuff", they want to do game/video/picviewer/phone/netbrowser
stuff. There is absolutely nothing wrong with these needs, it is just that an OS optimized for
them is worthless for the business market. This was the whole point - that Microsoft really
needed to have TWO "tools" - heck, they might have a 80-90% software functionality under the
skin, but they need fundamentally different USER INTERFACES and conceptual design.

I think this MIGHT be dawning on the bozos in charge. Maybe not, too.

An iPad is NOT a substitute for a business computer, but a business computer CAN
be made to replicate all the functions of an iPAD, but likely with package and interface
inconveniences that make the iPad, etc very viable tools for folks that need what it
offers. Frankly, a lot of folks would not even understand that an iPad class device
"isn't a computer" because it does everything THEY ever did with a computer. (and
likeley MORE!)

Alot of the misunderstanding here is because different groups see a computer as
ENTIRELY different things. Most of what I do with a computer at work would be
complete gibberish to a large part of the "computer" market. So when someone
here says "My iPad is the most fantastic computer I ever had." and another
person says "An iPad is a worthless piece of junk toy." - They are just talking past
each other - both are RIGHT - the problem is that they have completely different
functional needs.

Bill

[lars1367]

http://www.apple.com/macbook-air/ Check it out for yourself. Once you go Mac, you'll never look back. I know they are expensive, but you can either pay for the computer upfront or over time with visits to the Freak-squad!
-Lars

[grumman581]

http://www.apple.com/macbook-air/ Check it out for yourself. Once you go Mac, you'll never look back. I know they are expensive, but you can either pay for the computer upfront or over time with visits to the Freak-squad!
-Lars

Yeah, 128G makes for a good media player, but it doesn't make it a good REAL PC. If I was buying a laptop right now, 500G would be the minimum amount of secondary storage that I would find acceptable.

http://www.frys.com/product/7532966?site=sa:adpages%20page:P39_MON%20date:0624 13

So, $1K or an Apple with an 11" screen and 128G of secondary storage OR $358 for a PC laptop with a 15.7" screen and 500G of secondary storage... Take your pick...

If you find people are always warning you that you shouldn't run around with sharp pointy objects or you might hurt yourself, definitely you need an Apple and should be allowed nowhere near a PC (much less a UNIX / Linux box).

[Jammersix]

Ignorance.

An Apple is a UNIX-Linux box.

[grumman581]

Ignorance.

An Apple is a UNIX-Linux box.

And then they take all the useful features out of it so that you don't hurt yourself with it.

[H.Callahan]

Ignorance.

An Apple is a UNIX-Linux box.

And then they take all the useful features out of it so that you don't hurt yourself with it.
Amen, grumman581! Apple's OS may have started out life as Linux, but Apple gutted it in an attempt to prevent end-users from actually being able to do anything that Apple doesn't want you to. Kinda like liberals with gun control.

MTGun44 totally nailed the difference between a PC and a mobile device. Mobile devices are for content consumers. PCs are for content creators.

[grumman581]

Amen, grumman581! Apple's OS may have started out life as Linux, but Apple gutted it in an attempt to prevent end-users from actually being able to do anything that Apple doesn't want you to. Kinda like liberals with gun control.

MTGun44 totally nailed the difference between a PC and a mobile device. Mobile devices are for content consumers. PCs are for content creators.

Take something as simple as a web page like this one. If you want to go to the next page, you need to zoom into the area with the page numbers until the boxes with the numbers are nearly the size of your fingertip and then press the area with your finger. And then there are some web pages that refuse to cooperate and won't zoom. And I've had web pages where when you tried to do that, the Apple browser would crash. So, you think that you'll get around it by adding a mouse to your iPad, right? You even go buy a genuine Apple Bluetooth mouse. Nope, wishful thinking... Apple intentionally lobotomized the O/S by removing pointer support from it. Whereas with the Mac, they figured that their users were too stupid to handle more than one button on a mouse, with the iPad users, they figure that their users are too stupid to even be able to handle a SINGLE button.

It's an overpriced DVD player... Well, except for the fact that you can't actually play DVDs on it...

[Jammersix]

Apple envy is a terrible thing.

[grumman581]

Apple envy is a terrible thing.

Didn't know you were an Apple fanboy, Jammer...

[Jammersix]

Yup. Apple all the way, baby.

You still diving?

[grumman581]

Yup. Apple all the way, baby.

You still diving?

Not anywhere worth mentioning... I'm in Texas and even our best lakes are still crappy... How about you?

[Dale in Louisiana]

Not anywhere worth mentioning... I'm in Texas and even our best lakes are still crappy... How about you?

where in texas? I get around that state...

dale in Louisiana

[grumman581]

where in texas? I get around that state...

dale in Louisiana

Fort Bend County.

[Moonie]

Actually Apple left everything from BSD in, you just have to know where to get to it, as far as OS X is concerned. IOS is a different beast. I'm a UNIX/Linux security admin and I do enjoy OS X, but then I know how to get to the command line AND how to use it in OS X.

I haven't gotten into this discussion up to now as I have a different need in a machine, my laptop is a quad core (8 logical processors) with 2x500GB hard drives and 32GB of ram and runs Linux, but then I do alot of virtualization and programming. It also weighs about 9lbs...

[Jammersix]

Not anywhere worth mentioning... I'm in Texas and even our best lakes are still crappy... How about you?
Not so much. Age is taking a serious toll.

[Mal Paso]

This was the whole point - that Microsoft really
needed to have TWO "tools" - heck, they might have a 80-90% software functionality under the
skin, but they need fundamentally different USER INTERFACES and conceptual design.
Bill

As I understand it Microsoft is including the Old Start Menu in the first major update of Win 8. They might have heard you.

[MtGun44]

Me and a million other dissatisfied paying customers!

This article doesn't give me much hope that they have actually fixed much.

http://money.cnn.com/2013/06/26/technology/enterprise/windows-8-1-preview/index.html

Bill

[Moonie]

I'm not really liking win8 but thankfully up until now I hadn't had to worry with it. I've volunteered to be in charge of our church's computers, we use a check in system for our childrens church that runs on a couple of the new all-in-ones with touch screens. Great system but for the win8 they are running.

[grumman581]

Not so much. Age is taking a serious toll.

"We come into this world "bald, drooling, and incontinent" ... and we leave the same way..."

Just got back from a bit over a week in South Korea... Went there for other reasons, but I hauled all my dive gear with me (other than tanks) since I figured that I could rent a car, drive around the coast, and do some shore dives and maybe catch a ferry from the southern tip to Jeju island. That did not work out anyway close to that plan. :(

Turned out that you need an "international driving permit" to drive there. You can get one at AAA and it is just a multi-language translation of your existing driving license with no test or anything. You can ONLY get it from your home country while you are there, not once you have reached your destination country. Also, according to one of the dive shops that I approached to ask about renting tanks, they said that you need a permit from the Korean Coast Guard to do shore diving and the places that you can do it are extremely restricted.

So, I hauled my dive gear to Korea and back for nothing... :(