Dan Wesson Stuck Shroud

[ebner glocken]

I have a dan wesson ported 6" 44. This was bought used a few years ago. I fired at most 3 cylinders full and stared to take it apart to clean. The plus side was it was a tack driver. The downside was that it took about a quart of boiling water poured down the barrel just to get the barrel nut off. The shroud is stuck tight. It lived a few months in a zip lock bag full of kroil, didn't budge. I have froze it in the deep freeze for a couple of days and poured boiling water over the shroud and pulled on it, didn't budge. It set barrel down with ports facing down in an ultrasonic cleaner for over an hour, probably about a half thimble of metal fouling fell out.....didn't budge. Is there a puller made for these? An idea I kicked around was to screw the nut back in and back it off a few threads and fire it thus pressurizing the shroud and perhaps blowing some of the fouling out the gap in the front toward the nut, rinse and repeat. Any ideas I'm willing to kick around. This has been an ongoing project.

Ebner

[Fernando]

Clamp the shroud in a padded vice and lightly tap the frame with a wood block to protect finish.
Alternate top and bottom.
Have a second pair of hands around or padded bucket to catch frame if it lets loose.
Worth a try just don't beat the hell out of it.

[Artful]

It set barrel down with ports facing down in an ultrasonic cleaner for over an hour, probably about a half thimble of metal fouling fell out.....didn't budge

At that point did it quit giving up metal fouling?

[ebner glocken]

It set barrel down with ports facing down in an ultrasonic cleaner for over an hour, probably about a half thimble of metal fouling fell out.....didn't budge

At that point did it quit giving up metal fouling?

Yes. I'm sure it has more but is not giving it up.

Ebner

[Artful]

What kind of metal was it giving up - copper (like jacket material?) or lead? carbon fouling still coming out?

You might want to think chemical bath to dissolve - H2O2 + Vinegar "Dip" to remove lead fouling.
Carbon fouling - something like GM Top Engine Cleaner (TEC) Carb-Out, Slip2000 or Gunslick Foaming Bore Cleaner
Copper - Wipe Out works well

Keep in mind these chemicals are strong - toxic and can damage steel if left on too long.
so usual precautions - well ventilated area, protective gear (safety glasses, gloves, etc)
and prepare to rinse after they have had time to work.

[1500FPS]

Have you run a cleaning rod through the barrel with tight cleaning patch felt any real easy spots pushing it throught? I ask this because I hope the barrel didn't get a slight bulge and lock that shroud up tight.

[ebner glocken]

No tight spots in barrel. What ratio of white vinegar to water? I'm assuming distilled water. The ultrasonic cleaner was a solution of water and simple green.

Ebner

[44man]

At least the right thing was done with hot water to get the nut off.
It sounds like a lead buildup at the ports and I don't know anything to dissolve lead. Battery acid will not dissolve it, why would vinegar? It might take the tapping with wood or a leather mallet.
I wonder about a long lead slug pounded into the muzzle so you can grip it and see if you can unscrew the barrel out of the shroud. Or at least wiggle it enough to loosen. Put some Kroil in the ports.

[shorty500M]

vaporized lead can and will litterly solder onto steel when vaporized by gunpowder. a gentle heat applied cautiously to port area while tapping on frame with rubber or leather mallet with shroud held in a padded vise may seperate the assembly in short order

[Artful]

The DIP is something that will desolve lead - as well as stuff like aluminum, used by those of us with suppressors.
It won’t hurt stainless or Titanium, but you may damage regular steel.

"The Dip" is a solution that will remove all fouling (carbon, lead, copper) from 22 silencers.
It can only be used on ALL Stainless or Titanium cans as it eats aluminum, too

It consists of 50/50 mixture of ordinary white vinegar and Hydrogen Peroxide (regular OTC strength).

Use 8 oz of each and put in a container that won't react (like glass).


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T24G_255_dA

http://www.silencertalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=64135

When you use Hydrogen Peroxide and Distilled White Vinegar roughly 50/50 to make THE DIP
- which will dissolve lead and creates toxic Lead Acetate,
which will poison you just by skin contact and must be disposed of correctly to avoid contamination of an area.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lead(II)_acetate

But if your shroud is trapped by lead this might be a solution to your problem (Oh, sorry bad pun)

http://suxorz.com/i5/sciencecat.jpg

[7br]

I had a stuck barrel on my .41. My smith epoxied a bolt in the barrel, turned it out with a wrench then used heat to weaken the epoxy enough to get the bolt out.

[44man]

Artful, that is interesting! Must be some potent stuff.

[dubber123]

I assume this is is a ported barrel model? I ask as my brother has one he bought new, it shaved so much jacket material that it was all the two of us could do to get the shroud off. When we did, the shroud was packed full from end to end. A non-ported barrel was the fix for his.

[ebner glocken]

Yes, ported barrel. I am assuming it is packed as you described. When this thing is finally off it will get cleaned frequently and probably replaced with a non ported barrel as funds allow.

I spoke to the chemist at work (also a shooter), he said the peroxide and vinegar solution would work if I didn't mind rebluing and have a pitted barrel. He also descried lead acetate being some bad stuff. This will more than likely be a final solution (no pun intended) if all else fails.

The bolt and epoxy route will be my next attempt. Hopefully this soldered bond can be broken with this procedure. I am assuming the former owner shot naked lead and jacketed. Much thanks to all with ideas.

Ebner

[Groo]

Groo here
If you can find some quicksilver ,BP shooters would use that to clean with - it takes the lead out.
PS I have a DW 44 mag ported and had the same problem, ok for jackets but not cast....

[rintinglen]

I read someplace where an industrial sized ultrasonic cleaner was successfully used on one of these situations. IIRC, it took a couple of hours but the shroud did come off. The quicksilver route is not likely to be successful--it will only reach the outer layer of crud and will not penetrate. It is, however, useful for a last resort when dealing with a severely leaded barrel.

[Artful]

Mercury/"Quicksilver" is even nastier environmentally than "The DIP"
http://www.elcosh.org/document/1618/d000541/Mercury%2BFact%2BSheet.html?gclid=CKzP7re-grgCFUlxQgod0BcARw


Mercury poisoning can be treated with a medicine that pulls mercury out of your body and into the urine. This medicine is only used if mercury exposure is recent—not if mercury exposure occurred many years ago,. When the effects of mercury last for years after exposure stops, that injury is usually permanent.

[Artful]

I spoke to the chemist at work (also a shooter), he said the peroxide and vinegar solution would work if I didn't mind rebluing and have a pitted barrel. He also descried lead acetate being some bad stuff. This will more than likely be a final solution (no pun intended) if all else fails.


As long as your using the epoxy
- make sure you plug up the port's in the barrel
- then if it doesn't unscrew your ready to use the dip.
- I wouldn't dunk the entire barrel/assembly in the dip but use the dip by injection into the shroud's port
(make a clay dam to keep it inside the shroud and off the outside blued surface.)
Change out the small amount of dip frequently (hourly) and keep trying to jostle the expoxy'd bolt.
IMHO if the bolt in the bore doesn't surrender to brute force this would be my next choice.

[ebner glocken]

I tend to agree, mercury will float out all lead fouling have seen it for myself and you won't find a cleaner bore. It is unfortunate that mercury is also a bit hard to obtain, when not handled with care can do all sorts of nasty things to the human body. Ever heard of the "mad hatter"? Yes, I can get ahold of some but it ain't at my local walmart.

Today I had an hour to kill and also had help around, not exactly a typical afternoon off for me. The frame and barrel assembly had been in the freezer for a few days. I clamped the underlug in a soft jaw vise, poured boiling water over the shroud, my helper was pulling straight back on the frame, I took a nylon punch that was machined just undersized of the shroud opening and hit the barrel face repeatedly with a 3# leather mallet. About twenty wacks later it slid out. No damage done.

It turned out it had no lead fouling, didn't see any copper either. There is an amazing amount of carbon fouling in a very small space. Fouling is hard as rock and is currently setting in an ultrasonic cleaner with simple green. In the last hour some of it is starting to come off. The hard part is over. Now all is to be done is cleaning and put the thing back together.

Much thanks to all for all input.

Ebner

[Artful]

CONGRATULATIONS - JOB WELL DONE :drinks:

Now to look for an un-ported barrel