simple Hi-Tek coating

[Ausglock]

Hell, mine usually only sit long enough to cool to ambient temp before I recoat.

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Same here... 3 minutes under the fan and back into the coating mixer they go.
Who has time to sit around waiting for an hour??

[DDriller]

I did some .60 cal balls today and waited long enough so I could handle them by hand before recoating.
The buckshot I did was tumbled 8 hours, dried, and then coated. They were very smooth before I coated them and only 1 coat was needed. The next .60 cal I do will be tumbled first. BTW I am still using the original 2 part Hi-Tek in copper and gold. One of these years I may use it up so I can try the new stuff.

[HI-TEK]

I did some .60 cal balls today and waited long enough so I could handle them by hand before recoating.
The buckshot I did was tumbled 8 hours, dried, and then coated. They were very smooth before I coated them and only 1 coat was needed. The next .60 cal I do will be tumbled first. BTW I am still using the original 2 part Hi-Tek in copper and gold. One of these years I may use it up so I can try the new stuff.


You deserve a trade in for some new stuff. You must have had these liquids for a long time. I have not made the liquid version for years.
You could have Red Copper and Old Gold or Gold 1035 liquids and catalyst liquid.
Please post pictures of finished coated shot.
We have had various shot pellets coated with various colors. The coated pellets are used for Ballast in ships. They used the coatings, (3 coats) to prevent Water contact of the Lead, and for the pellets to be able to flow and run easily and level out in Ballast areas.
It worked well. Pellets flowed like water, through nozzles, when it was fed into the required areas.

[Avenger442]

470 Nitro Express.

Hi Tek TMG Gold coating, Lee 400 grain plain base plinker load @ 2050 fps. Yes plinker, compared to full house 500 grain 2250 fps load, this is very easy to shoot. A heavy rifle.

Shoots clean.

https://i.postimg.cc/8z6LnJW7/IMG-20211016-WA0000.jpg

That's a nice looking gun. Side by side always makes me think of the old safari movies I watched as a boy.

Joe:
I still have some of the liquid 1035 Gold Hi Tek along with several of the powders. As far as function it worked fine last time I used it. No lead in the barrel. It's a little darker after baking than it was when I first got it. I've had it about seven years.

DDriller
I'd like to see some photos, too.
Thanks

[sierra1911]

I too am still using liquid gold. Back when I bought it there were only two colors available from Donnie, gold and red copper. Was before there were multiple golds. Mine comes out a nice dark bronze color, but I bake it a little long and a little hot - ensuring it's cured. I no longer bother to wipe or smash test as it's always passed both tests.

[DDriller]

The .60 balls are the gold, over cooked these on the second coat not paying attention. The copper is .36 cal 000 buckshot
The liquid coating has always worked well for me, still does even though it is old.

After seeing Jatz357 pics I had to do a second coat to 10 pounds of 000
290499

[Jatz357]

This is some lead shot I coated with 1, 2 & 3 coats of Candy Apple. Tests completed for a US. company.

Shot coats exceptionally well and can be layered when baked in my infrared conveyor oven. No need for air flow around all the shot. This shot also had a dusting of graphite and the coating still adhered perfectly.

More tests to be completed soon. Testing for coating ability to reduce / eliminate lead leaching when used in a marine environment.

https://eminenceprojectiles.com.au/images/external/lead shot BB hi-tek coats comparison.jpg

[Petander]

325 grain plinker:

https://i.postimg.cc/qgfyHpNk/IMG-20211019-162331.jpg

Even at this 2300 fps I'm only getting some gray tint in the barrel, wipes off easily with Bore Tech Eliminator. No "lead streaks" or anything.

[Jatz357]

The .60 balls are the gold, over cooked these on the second coat not paying attention. The copper is .36 cal 000 buckshot
The liquid coating has always worked well for me, still does even though it is old.

After seeing Jatz357 pics I had to do a second coat to 10 pounds of 000
290499

They look pretty good, DDriller

[HI-TEK]

The .60 balls are the gold, over cooked these on the second coat not paying attention. The copper is .36 cal 000 buckshot
The liquid coating has always worked well for me, still does even though it is old.

After seeing Jatz357 pics I had to do a second coat to 10 pounds of 000
290499

DDriller
They look absolutely great. The second coat of Red Copper certainly made it very pleasing final colour.
You did well.
With Red Copper, Bronze types, in fact with most of the "metallic modified types", when mixing them up with solvent, various components can settle quickly afterwards. So when coating with these mixtures, you really have to make sure that it is very well mixed before sucking up the mixture with a Syringe.
Many use one cast as a rattle mixer, like they have/use in aerosol paint cans to mix up contents before spraying it.
I have had 5 liter plastic bottles, with the liquid coating concentrate in them, and they all had a sludge settled on the bottom. It took quite an effort to re-mix the sediment.
For quality control purposes, these had been kept as retention stock from previous batches, and were some years old.
After re-mixing, they all worked well, and as you said, they turned out a little darker to original colors.

[Woodcarver]

470 Nitro Express.

Hi Tek TMG Gold coating, Lee 400 grain plain base plinker load @ 2050 fps. Yes plinker, compared to full house 500 grain 2250 fps load, this is very easy to shoot. A heavy rifle.

Shoots clean.

https://i.postimg.cc/8z6LnJW7/IMG-20211016-WA0000.jpg

This is as close to an answer as I've found after spending a day reading (most) of this thread. With plain base, how fast have you pushed this Hi-Tek in big bores? Is this 2050fps load it, or just where your gun regulated well? I am looking at trying to get to 2100-2150 in 350gr .458. Working on a load that will regulate in a 45-70 DR, and that is where it looks like I need to be.
I also notice you had a pic of a 470NE shooting 325gr at 2300fps, but it looked like those might be gas checked. That should be a sweet load to plink with.

[Petander]

This is as close to an answer as I've found after spending a day reading (most) of this thread. With plain base, how fast have you pushed this Hi-Tek in big bores? Is this 2050fps load it, or just where your gun regulated well? I am looking at trying to get to 2100-2150 in 350gr .458. Working on a load that will regulate in a 45-70 DR, and that is where it looks like I need to be.
I also notice you had a pic of a 470NE shooting 325gr at 2300fps, but it looked like those might be gas checked. That should be a sweet load to plink with.


Hello Woodcarver,

I'm just starting out with 470 NE, this is a friends rifle I'm loading light cast for. The gun is screaming my name though...

These are safe minimum loads for certain (N120 & N135) Vihtavuori powders, I got the data from a friendly factory rep. He listened and called me back the next day with data for these bullets.

I think these velocities are the highest that I've pushed any rifles / Hi Tek. And that 325 does have a GC by design.

I have had a 325 grain 45-70 plinker load for a few years, the same TMG Gold -coating @ 1950 fps. N130.

470 regulation with the 400 Lee is surprisingly good, I was on a standard pistol target black for my first ten rounds @ 50 meters. I had a separate target for each barrel.

Others have pushed (smaller calibers) faster. I think it's also the low pressure that helps with big bores. 470 max is 2700 bar, these loads are only 2000 bar according to Quick Load.

[Woodcarver]

Hello Woodcarver,

I'm just starting out with 470 NE, this is a friends rifle I'm loading light cast for. The gun is screaming my name though...

These are safe minimum loads for certain (N120 & N135) Vihtavuori powders, I got the data from a friendly factory rep. He listened and called me back the next day with data for these bullets.

I think these velocities are the highest that I've pushed any rifles / Hi Tek. And that 325 does have a GC by design.

I have had a 325 grain 45-70 plinker load for a few years, the same TMG Gold -coating @ 1950 fps. N130.

470 regulation with the 400 Lee is surprisingly good, I was on a standard pistol target black for my first ten rounds @ 50 meters. I had a separate target for each barrel.

Others have pushed (smaller calibers) faster. I think it's also the low pressure that helps with big bores. 470 max is 2700 bar, these loads are only 2000 bar according to Quick Load.

Thanks. I thought the bigger bores could handle more velocity before a GC became required, but it has been really hard to find any specifics. Have some 300gr & 350gr, Hi-Tek coated, PB bullets headed my way and am hoping to be able to push them around 2100fps+-. I've not used any coated bullets before, and wanted to test drive before I jumped into coating them myself. With a lot of shooters using GCs in addition to a coating, either PC or Hi-Tek, the question of when the GC is required seems to be a little arbitrary or subject to too many variables to have a direct answer.

Beautiful double. I can see why it calls to you! They are great fun to shoot, but often a real challenge to find a good load for them that doesn't cost an arm and a leg, or have what some consider to be excessive recoil.

[Petander]

Yes,there are so many variables. Barrel quality etc. This Merkel has had some 500 j-bullets through it. Full power 500's. Barrel looks fine with a borescope.

For whatever reason, I have had the best Hi Tek coating luck with big calibers like 45-70, 500 S&W and now this 470 started nice right away. Maybe my sizes are just right or my coating technique favors big bullets...?

I had some problems but when I got my alloy tested there was a contaminant, Niobium. No idea how.






Beautiful double. I can see why it calls to you! They are great fun to shoot, but often a real challenge to find a good load for them that doesn't cost an arm and a leg, or have what some consider to be excessive recoil.

This shoots 500 Woodleighs just dead on (75 m without crossing) @ 2150 fps. Cast 400 is much lighter , recoil-wise, and already regulates good enough for 50 m practise. Maybe add a bit more velocity to tweak spread. 400's hit 2" low @50.

I have a 400 GC mold coming because ... well, just because I can. :) A 500 grain mold may follow one day, depending on my shoulder. I went overboard with shooting too heavy bows, forgetting my age... 58 now.

I also PC, it is easy. But I prefer Hi Tek for these big calibers. It's a more professional , repeatable process, designed for bullets. My Marlin shoots 325 PB @ 1950 fps completely clean all day.

[Tazza]

I coated about 1,000 projectiles in Tru Blue today, i wasn't off to a very good start. I mixed K15 and Tru blue, 10 grams to 100ml of acetone for Tru Blue, then 40 grams to 400ml of K15, sucked up the tru blue and as soon as i squirted it into the mixing bucket with projectiles i let out a few choice words. Yep you read my mixing ratios, i was at half strength, dunno why i did it, but yep. Fix that mistake with the addition of the magical powder to each bottle.

I proceeded to coat, well, re-coat the ones i messed up and cooked them at 200c like i do with K15 and 122 red, both give great results. This time, the timer didn't let off it's beep to tell me it's done (i was busy with other projects while the oven was going), half an hour or so later out comes green cast. I dropped the temperature to 185c according to the dial, not tested with a thermometer, so it's my own fault colours aren't spot on. I applied another coat and cooked, and another. The final results are green, no doubt due to me getting them too hot, i'll have to have another go when i cast more that i can spare some to make blue. I'll try smaller batches, lower temperatures and cook for less time.

Currently i do everything at 200c for 15 minutes, each tray has 1,000 - 1,500. They are not a single layer, but come out 100% every time. I have a plastic container that no matter the calibre or weight, i scoop up two full loads and put them on a tray and cook for 15 minutes. Works for everything from 100 grains to 730 grain fiddy cal monsters, but all black and 122 red.

The next fun project will be working out a process for tru blue, when un-cooked, it's a really awesome colour, if i can keep it even close to the correct colour after cooking, it's well worth the effort to get a process that will work for me. I do have a few PIDs, i'll need to use one and then calibrate it with a thermometer, as my casting machine PID is out by around 10c.

These green beauties will still be shot, they are super smooth like the 122 red, i find the K15 doesn't have the same shine, unsure why, but it works super well.

[Ausglock]

Yep. K15 is not as shiny as the rest.
TruBlu really needs it's own settings.

[Tazza]

Yep. K15 is not as shiny as the rest.
TruBlu really needs it's own settings.

Glad it's not just me and that k15 isn't as shiny.

Getting TruBlue may be an adventure to get right, i do have an oven from my brother, it may be the dedicated blue oven :)

[ryanmattes]

The directions I follow that work for me are:

Put the probe inside a drilled test bullet. When the probe hits 180C, start a timer for 3 minutes. Take them out when the timer goes off.

That's the simplest directions I've found, and it works great. But the blue is not the same as the color during coating.

First pic is before baking, the others are all done.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20211102/289fcd22281e10758fd5a420d32c7a73.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20211102/669b8676add604692c0a609b4d3a7307.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20211102/393ef7c50b3cd6778c3a523456c43aac.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20211102/c7b221d3ab8a7f8f17645eef41f8c8f5.jpg

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[HI-TEK]

Glad it's not just me and that k15 isn't as shiny.

Getting TruBlue may be an adventure to get right, i do have an oven from my brother, it may be the dedicated blue oven :)



Tazza
Can you advise location of heating element and your tray of coated cast? Picture of oven internals will help.
How far is heating element from surface of the tray of coated cast?
Is your oven fan forced?
I am suspecting that you may be getting radiation burned coating that will change the colour.

[HI-TEK]

The directions I follow that work for me are:

Put the probe inside a drilled test bullet. When the probe hits 180C, start a timer for 3 minutes. Take them out when the timer goes off.

That's the simplest directions I've found, and it works great. But the blue is not the same as the color during coating.

First pic is before baking, the others are all done.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20211102/289fcd22281e10758fd5a420d32c7a73.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20211102/669b8676add604692c0a609b4d3a7307.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20211102/393ef7c50b3cd6778c3a523456c43aac.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20211102/c7b221d3ab8a7f8f17645eef41f8c8f5.jpg

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Thank you for your post. They look great.
Your results are exactly what has been found by many others.
I suspect that some ovens, are not suitable for various reasons.
Majority of reasons relate to temperature controls, radiant heat from heating elements being too close to product, no fan forced heating & air circulation , poor quality thermostats having too much heat swings plus and minus.
With the various colors, all of these areas can affect final colors.
It is really up to each user to determine optimum conditions using their equipment to produce satisfactory results.
You obviously had found that what was recommended was adequate to produce what you posted.
Good job.

[ryanmattes]

I should mention that I'm using a relatively new (~2 years old) Oster toaster oven with an "air bake" mode that uses a fan to continuously circulate the air inside.

I only do about 5lbs at a time, which is what fits in the tray shown, and I stand them up on the base before baking, so they get good airflow.

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[HI-TEK]

I should mention that I'm using a relatively new (~2 years old) Oster toaster oven with an "air bake" mode that uses a fan to continuously circulate the air inside.

I only do about 5lbs at a time, which is what fits in the tray shown, and I stand them up on the base before baking, so they get good airflow.

Sent from my Pixel 5a using Tapatalk


Thank you for update.
That is a lot of work to stand up that many casts, but obviously what you are doing works a treat.
All your finished casts look identical, so what you are doing works, and well.
Some simply dump in the pre-dried coated cast, (don't worry about spacings, and don't overload trays), and at half way point, they take out the tray, shake it around, and return it quickly into the oven to finish baking. That also works well.
As suggested, each person has to work out their systems ability and capacity, and use it to make suitable products.
You have done very well. Product looks good and it works also.

[HI-TEK]

For those who had heard about Aqualube, used for Sizing, this link is where independent testing was done to put actual load figures, which details the reduction of loads during sizing.
Interesting reading.
The tests actually confirm actual load reduction by using Hi-Tek coatings, and Hi-Tek coating plus Aqualube.
I have many that use this as case lube as it is clean and dry and stops contamination.
Unlike other type of lubricants, it also is a powerful repellant to dust.

https://eminenceprojectiles.com.au/2021/11/01/hi-tek-aqua-lube-independent-testing/

[Tazza]

Tazza
Can you advise location of heating element and your tray of coated cast? Picture of oven internals will help.
How far is heating element from surface of the tray of coated cast?
Is your oven fan forced?
I am suspecting that you may be getting radiation burned coating that will change the colour.

Sorry Joe, i haven't been on the forum for a few days, i'll get some pictures hopefully tomorrow if it's not pouring rain like they suspect.

It is fan forced, and i know i'm over baking them. I need to be a bit more careful and focus on doing less and actually monitor the temperatures.

Jatz did a great job on the tests of aqualube, i'm actually really surprised of how much hi-tek alone lowers friction, then the addition of aqualube makes it even less. It's great real numbers to back up claims, and the data is really impressive!

[Petander]

For those who had heard about Aqualube, used for Sizing, this link is where independent testing was done to put actual load figures, which details the reduction of loads during sizing.
Interesting reading.
The tests actually confirm actual load reduction by using Hi-Tek coatings, and Hi-Tek coating plus Aqualube.
I have many that use this as case lube as it is clean and dry and stops contamination.
Unlike other type of lubricants, it also is a powerful repellant to dust.

https://eminenceprojectiles.com.au/2021/11/01/hi-tek-aqua-lube-independent-testing/

Aqualube is just great. I spray my 9 mm cases before they get loaded in a Square Deal.

It's also great for sizing uncoated bullets, no problem coating them afterwards. I have a mold that I should send back but I need the bullets NOW and hate the idea of downtime... I get seams and "whiskers", opening the mold takes lots of whacking, so does dropping...

...anyway, those surface problems stick and smear through coating when sized. So I'm sizing fresh bullets before I coat them to avoid the problem. Bullets being for 470 NE and quite hard alloy, Aqualube really helps tremendously, I go from .480 down to .477 at once using a poor old RCBS Lubrisizer. Seat checks first,then spray Aqualube. Let dry on top of oven for a while.

I'd break the Lubrisizer handle without Aqualube for sure.

[HI-TEK]

Aqualube is just great. I spray my 9 mm cases before they get loaded in a Square Deal.

It's also great for sizing uncoated bullets, no problem coating them afterwards. I have a mold that I should send back but I need the bullets NOW and hate the idea of downtime... I get seams and "whiskers", opening the mold takes lots of whacking, so does dropping...

...anyway, those surface problems stick and smear through coating when sized. So I'm sizing fresh bullets before I coat them to avoid the problem. Bullets being for 470 NE and quite hard alloy, Aqualube really helps tremendously, I go from .480 down to .477 at once using a poor old RCBS Lubrisizer. Seat checks first, then spray Aqualube. Let dry on top of oven for a while.

I'd break the Lubrisizer handle without Aqualube for sure.

Hello Petander,
With Aqualube, I knew it worked but was unable to supply actual facts, to demonstrate how much reduction of loads can be achieved when using this dry film lube.
Now, there is actual independent test results, which actually quantify just how effective was the Aqualube during sizing.
I am aware of it being used for cases for sizing.

With a "sticky" mold, that wont release cast alloy, you can try the Hi-Tek Bonded metal release agent. Even badly formed and or corroded molds instantly release alloy and is usable.
The product is applied simply by brushing on very sparingly with a bristle brush onto all surfaces.
You can use it dry, or made up as a paint in Acetone. A very thin film releases molten metals to about 1000C.
You get many releases without reapplications being required.
Ideal for auto casters. It stops alloy spatter sticking onto surfaces and it will lubricate the Sprue cutter surfaces.

[Jatz357]

Aqualube is just great. I spray my 9 mm cases before they get loaded in a Square Deal.

It's also great for sizing uncoated bullets, no problem coating them afterwards. I have a mold that I should send back but I need the bullets NOW and hate the idea of downtime... I get seams and "whiskers", opening the mold takes lots of whacking, so does dropping...

...anyway, those surface problems stick and smear through coating when sized. So I'm sizing fresh bullets before I coat them to avoid the problem. Bullets being for 470 NE and quite hard alloy, Aqualube really helps tremendously, I go from .480 down to .477 at once using a poor old RCBS Lubrisizer. Seat checks first,then spray Aqualube. Let dry on top of oven for a while.

I'd break the Lubrisizer handle without Aqualube for sure.

No doubt Aqua-Lube is great stuff. I really like that you don't have to worry about contamination with it like other products.

I had some casts that had two coats and were coated with Aqua-Lube then sized. After about two months I decided to add a third coat to some of them so I could test adhesion of Hi-Tek after sizing with Aqua-Lube. Nothing special, just a normal coat of Hi-Tek, bake and smash test was perfect, no adhesion problems at all.

[Petander]

Hello Petander,

...With a "sticky" mold, that wont release cast alloy, you can try the Hi-Tek Bonded metal release agent. Even badly formed and or corroded molds instantly release alloy and is usable.
The product is applied simply by brushing on very sparingly with a bristle brush onto all surfaces.
You can use it dry, or made up as a paint in Acetone. A very thin film releases molten metals to about 1000C.
You get many releases without reapplications being required.
Ideal for auto casters. It stops alloy spatter sticking onto surfaces and it will lubricate the Sprue cutter surfaces.

Thank you Joe , I think we have a deal.

I tend to cast hot and this sounds good in many ways, especially brass molds. I keep my molds dead clean and very seldom have sticking problems but it happens... smearing/spattering still happens if I go too fast.

[muddywaters61]

Can anyone tell me what pages that have a list of supplies that I would need to start up Hi Tec coating? Thanks for replies in advance. Somehow I missed the boat when Hi-Tech was starting up.

Muddy Waters 68

[Tazza]

All you need is Hi-tek powder, syringe, pure acetone, container to shake your cast in, a tray to cook them on and an oven.

It's very simple.

[ryanmattes]

I splurged on a $40 toaster oven at Walmart. I got an Oster with a "turbo" mode that basically has a fan constantly moving air inside.

Also got a cheap remote temp probe, like you'd use for a turkey.

A jug of acetone from home Depot.

I went to the wal Mart pharmacy and asked for a few medicine syringes in 5 and 10 ml, they gave them to me.

I use a cheap 3-set of Tupperware/sterilite disposable salad bowls with lids to shake in. I have 6 colors but I've still only ever used 2 of the bowls.

I use a cheap, FA digital scale to weigh the powder.

I picked up a small squirt bottle in the crafts section at Walmart, supposed to be for doing tie-dye.

Some hardware cloth to make trays from.

I only do 5lbs at a time, since that's all that fits in my toaster oven. So I cut the recipe in half, which almost, but not quite, fills the squirt bottle. I sometimes add a little extra acetone, maybe 10-ish extra ml, because this is Texas and acetone evaporates way too fast in the summertime.

I mix up a batch, or already have some mixed. Shake well, and give it several minutes for the chemicals to do their thing if you just made it. Dump about 5lbs of bullets in a bowl, give it 2-3 squirts with the mix, put the lid on, and swirl. I put the lid on because it evaporates fast here, so to get good coating I want it to stay liquid longer. After about 20 seconds or so I pop the lid so it's unsealed, but just sitting in top, and I continue swirling for another 10-20 seconds until you feel it dry up. You'll feel it. Depending on your ambient temp and humidity, you may not have to do the lid thing.

After that, dump them on the tray, give them a little separation for airflow (I stand them up, but you probably don't have to), and pop them in a 400 degree oven for about 8-10 minutes.

I take a throwback bullet and drill a hole in the end, and stick the probe in it. Then I put that probe slug on the tray with the coated bullets, and set the alarm for 180C. When they hit 180C I watch them to make sure the temp stays between 180-185C for 3 minutes, and take them out. That's it.

Here's everything but the oven.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20211124/fbc8321386426b33853c623b277ea591.jpg

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[Avenger442]

Ryanmatts
Like the way you think.

It don't have to be expensive to get started. I use the same bowls to tumble in. Ditto the syringes and hardware cloth trays. When I started I was using this $15 yard sale convection oven.292149 The color on the bullets was not uniform. But the performance as far as no leading was the same as i get now. It finally fell apart and I went to a $90 convection oven. It has better air flow and will cook 10 pounds at a time. Colors are uniform now. The first mod I did was add a PID to control the coils in the oven. Now I also use a drilled bullet with a probe in the tray.

When I started I think I had less than $50 invested. And I was not getting lead in my barrel. If your after more performance as far as uniform color you can do that for about $100 +/= more. PID and Temp probes are cheap. If you went to top of the line in ovens you could probably add another $300 to that. But acceptable color performance will happen with a much cheaper oven. Air flow and uniform heating are the things you are buying.

I only coat for myself. I guess you would call it a hobby.

[ryanmattes]

I've found that good, consistent color is about the shake, not using too much mix, and the bake time.

At first I was using too much mix, which was giving a thick, textured coating that took longer to bake. Thinking about it I realized that however much mix I put in there, whenever the acetone evaporates, everything that's left will be stuck to the bullets. There's nowhere else for it to go. So I started making the mix thinner, and adding less of it.

Then I use the lid trick to keep the mix liquid so I get all the bullets coated consistently while it's still a liquid. That way I don't have any bare patches, everything has the mix in it. Then, when I feel like they've all gotten covered with the liquid, I pop the top and let it start to dry out. I dump them in the tray as soon as they start to bind up.

The bake time is also much shorter than you would think. Over-baking makes them dark and dull. They still shoot fine, but the longer you bake, the darker the color is.

I got my process together talking to the guys who made it, and that's how I came to "the lead needs to be at 180C for 3 minutes to properly cure." I mean, that's what they told me, not that I came up with it, I just worked out my own process for getting there.

So I stopped trying to time the bake altogether. It doesn't matter how long it takes to get up to temp, and that will vary widely with the ambient temp, so what matters is that the lead of the bullets reaches 180C and stays there for 3 minutes. With the convection fan on full blast it keeps the temp pretty consistent, so I just fire it up and wait for the temp sensor to go off, telling me that the internal temp of the bullets is 180C. Then I time 3 minutes and pull them out.

This results in a super-thin coating that still lets some of the metal color show through. Which is fine, it does the job of preventing leading just fine. The color isn't the important part, the actual coating is basically clear, and the color is suspended in the coating. You're good to go if preventing leading is your only goal.

But once you do that, of course the goal shifts. I want to bring out the color to make them pretty, since I'm giving them a color anyway, so I'll do a second coat, which completely covers them in a nice, bright color.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20211124/ad878025db0035823c9b7cffde566b2a.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20211124/ee544b7fcc933835e12d02cab943a460.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20211124/816124003693661a615310b8dd167bec.jpg

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[HI-TEK]

Ryanmatts
Like the way you think.

It don't have to be expensive to get started. I use the same bowls to tumble in. Ditto the syringes and hardware cloth trays. When I started I was using this $15 yard sale convection oven.292149 The color on the bullets was not uniform. But the performance as far as no leading was the same as i get now. It finally fell apart and I went to a $90 convection oven. It has better air flow and will cook 10 pounds at a time. Colors are uniform now. The first mod I did was add a PID to control the coils in the oven. Now I also use a drilled bullet with a probe in the tray.

When I started I think I had less than $50 invested. And I was not getting lead in my barrel. If your after more performance as far as uniform color you can do that for about $100 +/= more. PID and Temp probes are cheap. If you went to top of the line in ovens you could probably add another $300 to that. But acceptable color performance will happen with a much cheaper oven. Air flow and uniform heating are the things you are buying.

I only coat for myself. I guess you would call it a hobby.

Going to the other end of baking extremes, a commercial caster just installed a monster oven that cooks 12,000-13,000 in 10 minutes.
They have increased output production by over 6 times, and now, cant coat fast enough to feed the oven.
A good position to be in, as orders are flooding in, and finished product can be supplied quickly.

[Avenger442]

Joe
Just noticed on Dillon Precision Holiday Deals; SNS is selling Hi Tec coated bullets. 500 9mm for $36. Not a bad deal. 7 cents per bullet.

[muddywaters61]

Thanks again guys. I sort of knew some of the process from reading, but didn't know all of steps in order. I have most of the stuff already.
Joe:
Do I buy the Hi-Tech from you or is there sources in the USA that I can find Hi-Tech??

Muddy Waters 68

[ryanmattes]

Order it online, it adds about $8 to the cost to ship.

The 3.5 oz container will do a *lot* of bullets, since you only need about a milliliter of the mix per pound. I've done several thousand gold and I've barely put a dent in my original 3.5oz old gold, and I'm sure I've dumped more out than I've used, just cleaning up. You could easily coat more than 10,000 bullets for that $25 (including shipping), so that's, what, 4-5 rounds coated for a penny? And the powder should keep pretty much forever.

https://hi-performancebulletcoatings.com/hi-tek-supercoat-powder-3-5-oz-container/


Sent from my Pixel 5a using Tapatalk

[HI-TEK]

Thanks again guys. I sort of knew some of the process from reading, but didn't know all of steps in order. I have most of the stuff already.
Joe:
Do I buy the Hi-Tech from you or is there sources in the USA that I can find Hi-Tech??

Muddy Waters 68

As ryanmattes said, the product is available from hi-performance bullet coatings in the US.
They can supply detailed instruction how to do the coating to get good results.
Just a suggestion, dont try to do things by altering what is advised.
You will get failures and wont know why.
A quick question, what sort of alloy are you using?

[HI-TEK]

Joe
Just noticed on Dillon Precision Holiday Deals; SNS is selling Hi Tec coated bullets. 500 9mm for $36. Not a bad deal. 7 cents per bullet.

Thanks Avenger
It would really fit into their market as they deal with many customers.
It seems a good price, but I dont know what the US prices are like with coated casts and comparing it to jacketed ammo.

[Ausglock]

I had a customer that wanted a few 1000 124gn RN 9mm bullets in Red Copper.
I don't have any powder, so used the Old 2013 liquid red copper that has been in my fridge in the shed.
Mixed 5.1.7 with extreme Catalyst that is about 7 years old.

All coated fine. even the colour is spot on.
It took a fair bit of shaking to get the red copper liquid back into solution as it had settled over the years.
I put the bottle in a tumble bucket I have that chucks into the lathe. ran it on slow spindle speed for 30 mins and it mixed back in great.

[HI-TEK]

I had a customer that wanted a few 1000 124gn RN 9mm bullets in Red Copper.
I don't have any powder, so used the Old 2013 liquid red copper that has been in my fridge in the shed.
Mixed 5.1.7 with extreme Catalyst that is about 7 years old.

All coated fine. even the colour is spot on.
It took a fair bit of shaking to get the red copper liquid back into solution as it had settled over the years.
I put the bottle in a tumble bucket I have that chucks into the lathe. ran it on slow spindle speed for 30 mins and it mixed back in great.



All I can say is WOW That is a totally impressive. I would never have expected that the liquids would be that stable.
You keeping it in the fridge may have helped a lot.
A couple of colors had changed to darker shades over some time, but they were just sitting on the shelf in a shed.
Even household paints don't stay as stable with storage, they just gel and become useless.
Happy days....

[sierra1911]

All I can say is WOW That is a totally impressive. I would never have expected that the liquids would be that stable.
You keeping it in the fridge may have helped a lot.
A couple of colors had changed to darker shades over some time, but they were just sitting on the shelf in a shed.
Even household paints don't stay as stable with storage, they just gel and become useless.
Happy days....

My coating, purchased from Donnie Miceluk at Bayou Bullets in late 2013, is also working fine. It has been kept indoors (at temps between 65 and 75) but has not been refrigerated. I mix it 5-1-10 and coat and bake twice with 1 ml per pound of bullets for each coat. Color is the original Gold (not Gold 1035 or Old Gold) as it and Red Copper were the only colors Donnie offered for sale at the time.

Still works as well as when it was new!

[DDriller]

Mine from Donnie has been stored since 2014 in a non-climate control garage (32˚F - 110˚F) and still works fine using the original recipe. Takes a lot of shaking with a couple of lead balls in the bottle to mix the base.

[HI-TEK]

Mine from Donnie has been stored since 2014 in a non-climate control garage (32˚F - 110˚F) and still works fine using the original recipe. Takes a lot of shaking with a couple of lead balls in the bottle to mix the base.

Hi DDriller
Aside from longevity of the liquid coatings, what seems to happening is that these coatings go a very long way and produce many coated casts with small amounts of coating.
The main problems with Solvent based systems was that transport costs are very high both shipping and road freight.
That was the main driving force to produce the powdered versions. Colour matching the original liquids was also a major challenge.
Now, all user has to do is mix powder with Acetone, and all good to go, with every thing built into the coating to make it work.

[DDriller]

Now, all user has to do is mix powder with Acetone, and all good to go, with every thing built into the coating to make it work.
That takes some of the fun out of it :smile:. As to using small amount that is correct. Like an idiot I ordered 4 bottles of each of the 2 colors way back when. Still love this product.

[HI-TEK]

That takes some of the fun out of it :smile:. As to using small amount that is correct. Like an idiot I ordered 4 bottles of each of the 2 colors way back when. Still love this product.

I am glad that you are happy with the coatings.
In rough terms, about 1 pound of powder, coating twice, should cover about 50,000, plus or minus.
Most hobbyists would not use that amount of coating for quite a while.

May be you can call a few mates over for a cook out and a few beers and have a coating fest party.....

[popper]

Tried baking the coated on my hot plate today. ~139 165gr 40 cal TC, coated once. Got my exercise swirling 5# of bullets in the jug last nite. Cooked a little dark ( powdered gold). Passed wipe and smash test fine. I use a cheap floor tile, sheet of steel and copper cook sheet and cover with some hi temp plastic 'dish' she gave me. It's my normal PC cooking rig but tried the HiTek today. Rifle bullets next.
293286

[Avenger442]

Is anyone using Hi Tek in a magnum caliber? Results?

May be getting a 300PRC for Christmas. Since it is a magnum I was wondering about using the cast and Hi Tek. Haven't found a mold for a long .308 yet. So would appreciate suggestions.

[Gremlin460]

I had a customer that wanted a few 1000 124gn RN 9mm bullets in Red Copper.
I don't have any powder, so used the Old 2013 liquid red copper that has been in my fridge in the shed.
Mixed 5.1.7 with extreme Catalyst that is about 7 years old.

All coated fine. even the colour is spot on.
It took a fair bit of shaking to get the red copper liquid back into solution as it had settled over the years.
I put the bottle in a tumble bucket I have that chucks into the lathe. ran it on slow spindle speed for 30 mins and it mixed back in great.

Thats because you are a tightass and dont throw anything out...

[Ausglock]

Thats because you are a tightass and dont throw anything out...

Ha... last weekend I threw out roughly 20lb of coating powders... A lot of them were colours that didn't work or looked horrible. I reclaim the bottles and use them for mixed coating..

[HI-TEK]

Had a pleasant report. Finland user report on Hi-Tek Mould release with examples.
Here is the link to the report.
Thank you Petander. Your report is much appreciated.

https://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?438363-Hi-Tek-Bonded-Mold-Release&p=5350416#post5350416

[Tazza]

Had a pleasant report. Finland user report on Hi-Tek Mould release with examples.
Here is the link to the report.
Thank you Petander. Your report is much appreciated.

https://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?438363-Hi-Tek-Bonded-Mold-Release&p=5350416#post5350416

Good report on a great product, it doesn't take much to coat a mould a dn that stuff sure is slick.

It also doen't effect hi-tek coating afterwards, unlike oil that causes all sorts of issues.

[ioon44]

One of the guys I shoot with is a commercial caster using a Magma Bullet Master and started using Hi-Tek Mould release last year with really good results.
He has been able to run like 70,000 200gr .45 bullets without having to take the molds off of the machine, really saves time and increases production.

[Petander]

Had a pleasant report. Finland user report on Hi-Tek Mould release with examples.
Here is the link to the report.
Thank you Petander. Your report is much appreciated.

https://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?438363-Hi-Tek-Bonded-Mold-Release&p=5350416#post5350416

You're welcome.

Now people are asking where to get it. Is there a US importer? Or directly from you like I did,Joe?

[HI-TEK]

You're welcome.

Now people are asking where to get it. Is there a US importer? Or directly from you like I did, Joe?

Petander
Availability in US is from Hi-Performance Bullet Coatings LLC.
I am fairly sure they have stocks. May be you can see it advertised on their web site.
Product sales outside US, is supplied directly by maker.

[DDriller]

Petander
Availability in US is from Hi-Performance Bullet Coatings LLC.
I am fairly sure they have stocks. May be you can see it advertised on their web site.
Product sales outside US, is supplied directly by maker.
They have the release agent and also the Aqualube. Both great products.
I finally broke down and ordered some powdered Hi-Tek from them also to get out of the stone age :-)

[Petander]

I forgot to mention that I didn't use any other lube when casting,not even for the aligning pins.

Still amazed,I was really pushing that 2 x 400 grain brass mold , casting fast , trying to make it smear on top or "tin" around the cavity edges... but nothing happened!

This will change my casting to even more relaxed experience, my only problem as a brass mold lover has been tinning / smearing. I have had to watch out for it a bit with my hot tin rich alloy.

Messy lubes are dropping out of my ammo making routines one by one.

[Avenger442]

I bought some of the bonded mold release from Hi-Performance Bullet Coatings (formally Bayou Bullets) a couple of months ago. And finally got a chance to try it this week. I have a couple of new aluminum molds for a new rifle I got for Christmas. I coated one of them per directions and started to cast. This mold is not the toughest test for the mold release but they just dropped out of the mold when it was opened. Another fine product from Joe.

A couple of things I noticed when using. One; the powder will not just wipe off with a dry cloth if you get it on something. I'm not saying it is hard to clean up. But you should be careful to not create a mess when mixing. Two; you only need a little on the mold. If you guys are like me you thinK more will be better, right? Well it doesn't apply in this case. Just like the coating you only need a thin coat. And Trevor's idea of blowing excess off after heating the mold is a good one.

[Ausglock]

I spashed some on my orange work shirt when toothbrushing a mold.
3 months now and the stuff is still there... will not wash out...lol

[DDriller]

A couple of things I noticed when using. One; the powder will not just wipe off with a dry cloth if you get it on something. I'm not saying it is hard to clean up. But you should be careful to not create a mess when mixing. Two; you only need a little on the mold. If you guys are like me you thinK more will be better, right? Well it doesn't apply in this case. Just like the coating you only need a thin coat. And Trevor's idea of blowing excess off after heating the mold is a good one.
I spilled some powder on my scale face and am still trying to get it off. I am sure alcohol will clean it just haven't tried not wanting to damage the plastic. Some day when I grow I'll quit being so clumsy.
It is a fabulous product however.

[HI-TEK]

I bought some of the bonded mold release from Hi-Performance Bullet Coatings (formally Bayou Bullets) a couple of months ago. And finally got a chance to try it this week. I have a couple of new aluminum molds for a new rifle I got for Christmas. I coated one of them per directions and started to cast. This mold is not the toughest test for the mold release but they just dropped out of the mold when it was opened. Another fine product from Joe.

A couple of things I noticed when using. One; the powder will not just wipe off with a dry cloth if you get it on something. I'm not saying it is hard to clean up. But you should be careful to not create a mess when mixing. Two; you only need a little on the mold. If you guys are like me you think more will be better, right? Well it doesn't apply in this case. Just like the coating you only need a thin coat. And Trevor's idea of blowing excess off after heating the mold is a good one.

Hello Avenger
thank you for buying the bonded release agent, and am glad that you found it to work.
I had some spilled onto a bench, and I was successful in cleaning it off with soapy water.
The bonding agent will penetrate porous surfaces so cleaning up may be more difficult.
I also got some onto my hands, and with scrubbing was able to remove it soapy water.
As you said, and I have advised, you only need to use the product very sparingly for it to work well and for quite a long time without needing reapplication.
The product is not cheap, but very low cost with the end use amounts being required, as a small amount being needed makes product go a very long way, and works.
The main benefits are that applying minimal amounts simply works, and provides a mirror reproduction of the Mould with the cast,
and also, it does not contaminate casts, and is heat stable to about + 800C .
I do not recommend blowing the dust around. Any excess can be wiped from surfaces to leave almost a stain thickness, which should work.

[HI-TEK]

I splashed some on my orange work shirt when toothbrushing a mold.
3 months now and the stuff is still there... will not wash out...lol

Can I say, the shirt will release you, over and over, as it allows good slip.
A bit sorry for leaving a black stain.
To clean your shirt, try some denatured Alcohol with a little dishwashing liquid. Rub well and rinse.
I don't know for sure if that will work, but no harm with trying. At least. if this does not work, it may make your shirt more an even grey in colour LOL.
Quick question, why did you use a tooth brush. the small paint brush supplied should do the trick.

[HI-TEK]

I spilled some powder on my scale face and am still trying to get it off. I am sure alcohol will clean it just haven't tried not wanting to damage the plastic. Some day when I grow I'll quit being so clumsy.
It is a fabulous product however.

I suggest, you dampen a piece of rag with Denatured Alcohol, wipe plastic surface in non essential area, to see if the alcohol will affect the plastic.
If it seems not to affect plastic, only then, try and clean the area where it is stained.
Thank you for the compliment.

[Ausglock]

Quick question, why did you use a tooth brush. the small paint brush supplied should do the trick.

What would you know???
Your the manufacturer... Nobody reads the instructions until after they use the product and have issues with it.lol

[Avenger442]

Joe
I'm going to ask a question that I think I already know the answer to. What will keep the bonded mold release from bonding? I have some molds that have had various things put on them to lube the sprue plate. Probably should clean every mold before applying by dipping in acetone.

[HI-TEK]

Joe
I'm going to ask a question that I think I already know the answer to. What will keep the bonded mold release from bonding? I have some molds that have had various things put on them to lube the sprue plate. Probably should clean every mold before applying by dipping in acetone.

Avenger
you ask great questions. Firstly there is a non bonded version of the Mold release.
I don't believe that it is stocked in US
The Bonding version requires quite amount of heat to get it to fully bond to metals.
The bonding does require temperatures about 500C for bonding to get to final cure conditions.
I have had reports that users of the bonded version with Cast Lead alloys, was removed by washing with Acetone after extensive casting.
The reason for this was that bonding did not reach the high temperatures required for long enough, to completely set it.
Degreasing mold using Acetone is a good idea.

[DDriller]

I may never get my bonding agent to fully cure since I seldom get over 425C. Still works great in my application. Put the Aqualube 3000 to a test yesterday sizing some Hi-Tek'd bullets down from .344 to .339 also adding gas checks in a single pass. That stuff is simply amazing.
I'll add a picture of my new color I call burnt gold. Got busy doing something and left some in the oven about 40 minutes. Sizing down .005 did not take any coating off.
297449

[HI-TEK]

I may never get my bonding agent to fully cure since I seldom get over 425C. Still works great in my application. Put the Aqualube 3000 to a test yesterday sizing some Hi-Tek'd bullets down from .344 to .339 also adding gas checks in a single pass. That stuff is simply amazing.
I'll add a picture of my new color I call burnt gold. Got busy doing something and left some in the oven about 40 minutes. Sizing down .005 did not take any coating off.
297449

How are you doing DDriiler

The Bonding release agent will start curing around those figures but it will take a quite a while.
I originally made a sort of version , (aerosolized) for releasing molten glass which was at about +1200C.
They heat cured the bonding mold release agent on the Molds at 500C for about 6 hours before using it for Glass release.

With Aqualube, there are figures published by independent testing, demonstrated reduction of loads by at least 50%.
Size reduction of 5 thou should not affect the Hi-Tek coatings and Aqualube should work well as you found.

With over baked coatings, tests was done on the Dark Green and Kryptonite Green where they were baked for many hours, and some for days.
They were almost Black but worked exceptionally well.
You may now have invented a Chocolate colour Hi-Tek.

[DDriller]

How are you doing DDriiler

The Bonding release agent will start curing around those figures but it will take a quite a while.
I originally made a sort of version , (aerosolized) for releasing molten glass which was at about +1200C.
They heat cured the bonding mold release agent on the Molds at 500C for about 6 hours before using it for Glass release.

With Aqualube, there are figures published by independent testing, demonstrated reduction of loads by at least 50%.
Size reduction of 5 thou should not affect the Hi-Tek coatings and Aqualube should work well as you found.

With over baked coatings, tests was done on the Dark Green and Kryptonite Green where they were baked for many hours, and some for days.
They were almost Black but worked exceptionally well.
You may now have invented a Chocolate colour Hi-Tek.

My next batch I will actually use the new powdered Hi-Tek I bought in Zombie Green. I can not tell you enough how much I like your products. Seldom do products seem to work as well as advertised but yours sure do.
297479
Had to over cook the .69 balls to pass the wipe test. I do not really care what color things turn out. They are well coated and that is all that matters to me. The .30 cal Zombie Green bullets turned out great.

[HI-TEK]

Looking through records, I realized that the Hi-Tek coating has been on the market for 30 years.
It is amazing how time flies.

[DDriller]

Looking through records, I realized that the Hi-Tek coating has been on the market for 30 years.
It is amazing how time flies.

Only 729 pages of reading since 2013. If this thread hadn't started I probably would not have heard about this great product.

[Tazza]

Looking through records, I realized that the Hi-Tek coating has been on the market for 30 years.
It is amazing how time flies.

That is a really impressive figure, shame i didn't get introduced to it when i started.

[HI-TEK]

Only 729 pages of reading since 2013. If this thread hadn't started I probably would not have heard about this great product.


With historical matters, the coatings were attempted to be introduced into the US in about 1996/7. It seemed, that the product seemed too radical and with being solvent based at that time, no one was interested in it. From rough recollection, it was an Aussie here, who was talking with US based shooters over a period, where the coatings were discussed.
Many long term discussions and questions, finally got into the blog site. Many had asked how to get the products. Details were posted, then, I was banned as I was breaching rules of the blog site.
Later on, I was allowed to re-join, and the rest is history.

[Avenger442]

So it was available through a dealer here in the US about what year? 2003?

Does Ebay let you sell this type of item on it?

[HI-TEK]

So it was available through a dealer here in the US about what year? 2003?

Does Ebay let you sell this type of item on it?

Checking our invoicing, the first commercial shipment of Hi-Tek coating was sent to a US dealer, on the 13th March 2013.
Hobbyist sized quantities were sent directly to customers a during a few years earlier.

Thank you for suggestion and never tried/considered Ebay. There should be no restrictions why these products cannot be sold this way.
The problems I can see is, customers trying to buy product directly, and not from appointed agents within their country.

[wlkjr]

I hate to change the subject, BUT, here goes. Is there a distinct difference in the Aqualube 3000 and 5000? Is the 5000 better than the 3000? I have a couple of bottles of the 3000 that I've had for a long while, but ordered some of the 5000 when I ordered some HiTek power. I mixed up a bottle of the 5000 to try and I can't really tell any difference. Just curious.

[HI-TEK]

I hate to change the subject, BUT, here goes. Is there a distinct difference in the Aqualube 3000 and 5000? Is the 5000 better than the 3000? I have a couple of bottles of the 3000 that I've had for a long while, but ordered some of the 5000 when I ordered some HiTek power. I mixed up a bottle of the 5000 to try and I can't really tell any difference. Just curious.

Great question, and you are correct, it is difficult to tell any difference between them.
Both the Aqualube 3000 and 5000 will work exactly the same way. You can mix them together without any problems.
The only difference between them is the particles of the Aqualube 5000 are slightly bigger so the liquid is a little more Milky.
Aqualube 3000 has particles about 0.02-0.05 microns and is less Milky in appearance, and Aqualube 5000 has 0.03 to 0.08 microns particle sizes.
Aqualube 3000 dry residue is less visible, where the dry residue of the Aqualube 5000 has more ghostly dry white film residue.
Some like less whiteness residue, and others want more whiteness residue so they can see that the product was treated.
Once sized, it is almost impossible to see any film left on load bearing surfaces.
There is not much more available of the Aqualube 5000 and will be probably phased out. The highest percentage users want the Aqualube 3000.
I hope I answered your question.

Just a few more details. If you consider a single layer of dry film Aqualube, to make it 1 thou thick, you will need about 25 to 26 layers of the Aqualube dry film to make that a one thou thickness. Just goes to show how little is needed to work very efficiently as a dry film sizing lubricant.

[wlkjr]

Great question, and you are correct, it is difficult to tell any difference between them.
Both the Aqualube 3000 and 5000 will work exactly the same way. You can mix them together without any problems.
The only difference between them is the particles of the Aqualube 5000 are slightly bigger so the liquid is a little more Milky.
Aqualube 3000 has particles about 0.02-0.05 microns and is less Milky in appearance, and Aqualube 5000 has 0.03 to 0.08 microns particle sizes.
Aqualube 3000 dry residue is less visible, where the dry residue of the Aqualube 5000 has more ghostly dry white film residue.
Some like less whiteness residue, and others want more whiteness residue so they can see that the product was treated.
Once sized, it is almost impossible to see any film left on load bearing surfaces.
There is not much more available of the Aqualube 5000 and will be probably phased out. The highest percentage users want the Aqualube 3000.
I hope I answered your question.

You did. Thanks a bunch. I love all the Hi-Tek products.

[Ausglock]

I like the 5000......just sayin'

[flybyjohn]

Boy with all my hobbies and chores, I only make it here every few months and then I have days of reading to catch up. It usually always cost me money every time I visit also. So I now am hearing about this new bonded mold release. I was just getting ready to make some more boolits and swung by this site and what do you know, I now have some bonded mold release and another color of Hitec on the way. I probably have enough hitek to last me a couple more years and with as hard as it is to find primers, maybe more but couldn’t waste the shipping so added a color I don’t have to the order.

Cant wait to try it.

[Avenger442]

Boy with all my hobbies and chores, I only make it here every few months and then I have days of reading to catch up. It usually always cost me money every time I visit also. So I now am hearing about this new bonded mold release. I was just getting ready to make some more boolits and swung by this site and what do you know, I now have some bonded mold release and another color of Hitec on the way. I probably have enough hitek to last me a couple more years and with as hard as it is to find primers, maybe more but couldn’t waste the shipping so added a color I don’t have to the order.

Cant wait to try it.

Your going to love the bonded mold release.

I'm using it on two new molds and the bullets just drop out when I open the molds. These are heavy bullets. I have a mold that cast really light hollow point bullets. It is bad to hold onto them when the mold is opened. I have been trying to get time to test it with that mold. I think the bonded is going to be the answer for three molds that I have problems getting the bullets to drop out.

[flybyjohn]

Just about all my molds are aluminum and I can’t say I’ve had problems with any of them dropping bullets. My problem is that the block tops will pick up a small piece of lead from time to time and if I don’t catch it right away it smears and cuts into the top of the mold block. I have been putting synthetic 2 stroke oil on the tops to keep it clean but that eventually leads to oil getting into the bullet area then it requires a complete clean to get smooth bullets again. Hopefully this will help prevent little bits of lead from adhering to the top of the blocks.

Not sure what my problem is but I can take a brand new aluminum mold, season it and then have the top scared with radial grooves from little chunks of lead between the blocks and spruce plate in one casting session. I even hone the bottom of the spruce plate and the tops of the molds right after I get them. Not sure if it is little hard chunks in my lead or just my process. Anyway, just hoping this mold release will help keep the lead from adhering to the tops of the blocks.

[HI-TEK]

Just about all my molds are aluminum and I can’t say I’ve had problems with any of them dropping bullets. My problem is that the block tops will pick up a small piece of lead from time to time and if I don’t catch it right away it smears and cuts into the top of the mold block. I have been putting synthetic 2 stroke oil on the tops to keep it clean but that eventually leads to oil getting into the bullet area then it requires a complete clean to get smooth bullets again. Hopefully this will help prevent little bits of lead from adhering to the top of the blocks.

Not sure what my problem is but I can take a brand new aluminum mold, season it and then have the top scared with radial grooves from little chunks of lead between the blocks and spruce plate in one casting session. I even hone the bottom of the spruce plate and the tops of the molds right after I get them. Not sure if it is little hard chunks in my lead or just my process. Anyway, just hoping this mold release will help keep the lead from adhering to the tops of the blocks.

How are you doing flybyjohn
What I can advise is, that Aluminum, will get softer when hot, The scratching on surfaces by solidified alloy may be causing what you are seeing.
Smearing of alloy, is due to semi set alloy that simply forms a very thin metal between Sprue cutter and mold. It is almost like "tinning", mainly due to alloy and mold being too hot.
It is hoped, that after applying the bonded release agent, you will minimize the adhesion of the spatter being collected on surfaces and also reduce or eliminate the Tinning effect.
You can apply the release agent to the Sprue cutter surfaces as well.
The other benefit of using the Mold release is that it will not contaminate any casts, and wont affect coating process later on.
As per normal, do not apply thick coats, it is not necessary.
I would welcome your findings, good or bad.

[barsik]

I had the same problem as flybyjohn with a buildup of lead on the bottom of the sprueplate and on top of the moldblocks. the problem is that when casting hot and quick the sprue is torn off the bullet, it isn't a clean cut and some bits of lead tend to stick in the sprue plate. some of it gets rubbed off when closing the sprue plate because the plate gets moved in the opposite direction to close for another pour. I bought a pair of thin leather gloves which are popular with the cowboy crowd and after the bullets have dropped free I flip the mold over and give the bottom of the sprue plate an extremely quick wipe across the holes to clean them and any lead that is on the bottom of the sprue plate with a little patch of leather cut from an old pair of gloves. I guess if one were really quick it could be done with only a gloved hand but I'm not that brave. BTW, I am using the HITEK mold release and it works very well at high temp but tends to stick at lower temp. one must find the sweet spot of melt temp and cadence and the bullets are well into the frosted zone but once in that narrow band of casting nirvana the bullets just fall out of the blocks.

[Ausglock]

I scrape the bottom of sprue plates with a razor blade to remove any lead smear.
then apply the mold release.

[HI-TEK]

BTW, I am using the HITEK mold release and it works very well at high temp but tends to stick at lower temp. one must find the sweet spot of melt temp and cadence and the bullets are well into the frosted zone but once in that narrow band of casting nirvana the bullets just fall out of the blocks.

Thank for your input.
Just curious about you mentioned, the Bonded Mold release not working at lower temperatures. Can you please elaborate, as I don't understand how casting conditions that is used, would be at lower temperatures.
What were the actual conditions where you had the bonding release agent not working adequately.
Please advise, thank you in advance.....

[barsik]

Thank for your input.
Just curious about you mentioned, the Bonded Mold release not working at lower temperatures. Can you please elaborate, as I don't understand how casting conditions that is used, would be at lower temperatures.
What were the actual conditions where you had the bonding release agent not working adequately.
Please advise, thank you in advance.....

sure, I'm using aluminum blocks and during the first couple of pours the bullets have a tendency to stick in the cavities for me. these bullets go back into the pot as they usually have flaws of some type or another. my melt is 5 parts wheelweight alloy and one part salvaged radiator solder which is a 70/30 lead tin mix. it does cast a bullet with sharply defined edges and I have no idea what the hardness is. after the blocks come up to temp the bullets start falling out. I've modified my technique to put a dab of copper coat on top of the sprue closing pin and putting the corner of the blocks into the melt to warm up. once the copper coat starts to smoke the temp is right to start casting and the bullets fall out on the first pour. do this only in a well ventilated area.

[HI-TEK]

sure, I'm using aluminum blocks and during the first couple of pours the bullets have a tendency to stick in the cavities for me. these bullets go back into the pot as they usually have flaws of some type or another. my melt is 5 parts wheel weight alloy and one part salvaged radiator solder which is a 70/30 lead tin mix. it does cast a bullet with sharply defined edges and I have no idea what the hardness is. after the blocks come up to temp the bullets start falling out. I've modified my technique to put a dab of copper coat on top of the sprue closing pin and putting the corner of the blocks into the melt to warm up. once the copper coat starts to smoke the temp is right to start casting and the bullets fall out on the first pour. do this only in a well ventilated area.

Thank you for details.
I think I may have and answer about the reason why colder casts don't drop, and why hotter casts drop from Molds
My rationale or suspicion is, that the colder alloy, shrinks less in the Mold after pouring (and is a tight fit) and hotter Molded alloy after cooling shrinks much more, so it falls out more easily.
In terms of using the bonding Mold release, you can may be try to apply a little more coating to internal surface of the Mold. My idea is, that you may get a slightly better release with colder Mold conditions.
The Bonded Mold release has no variations with release properties with being used at freezing temperatures to 800C. Applying extra film thickness of bonding Mold release agent, may help with freeing colder alloy casts by providing a non stick surface and a little more clearance between cast alloy and the Mold. The theory is that the cast should fall from the Mold, irrespective of temperature.
I am very interested with your findings.

[flybyjohn]

Well I haven’t got around to warming up the pot of lead yet but got one mold coated. I was thinking that if I heated the mold up to casting temps it would cure the mold release. I cooked them in the bullet oven at 400 for half an hour and let them cool to room temp in the oven. When I picked them up, the coating transferred to my fingers. I was kind of thinking it was supposed to bond to the mold. Maybe 400 wasn’t hot enough. I can try 500 or 550 degrees. Maybe I just coated too heavily. Going to try to cast some bullets tomorrow.

[DDriller]

Well I haven’t got around to warming up the pot of lead yet but got one mold coated. I was thinking that if I heated the mold up to casting temps it would cure the mold release. I cooked them in the bullet oven at 400 for half an hour and let them cool to room temp in the oven. When I picked them up, the coating transferred to my fingers. I was kind of thinking it was supposed to bond to the mold. Maybe 400 wasn’t hot enough. I can try 500 or 550 degrees. Maybe I just coated too heavily. Going to try to cast some bullets tomorrow.

Post # 14566 "The Bonding version requires quite amount of heat to get it to fully bond to metals.
The bonding does require temperatures about 500C for bonding to get to final cure conditions."

[HI-TEK]

Well I haven’t got around to warming up the pot of lead yet but got one mold coated. I was thinking that if I heated the mold up to casting temps it would cure the mold release. I cooked them in the bullet oven at 400 for half an hour and let them cool to room temp in the oven. When I picked them up, the coating transferred to my fingers. I was kind of thinking it was supposed to bond to the mold. Maybe 400 wasn’t hot enough. I can try 500 or 550 degrees. Maybe I just coated too heavily. Going to try to cast some bullets tomorrow.

flybyjohn
I suspect you are talking about 400 to 500 degrees F. The Bonded release agent requires some 900 degrees + F, (500 degrees Celsius) to help the setting and the bonding property.

The "bonding" property, is supposed to simply hold release agent onto surfaces of the Mold metals. The outside of the film surface, can transfer onto skin.
The transfer onto skin, is normal, but why did you wipe it with your finger?
How did your casting go using the Bonding release agent?

[flybyjohn]

HI-TEK, I was just checking to see if the mold release set/cured. I tried it again at 550 deg F. before I saw your last post so I see now why it comes off on my finger like graphite. I was kind of thinking it was supposed to cure like hitek coating, just at a higher temperature. I have not tried to pour lead into it yet as it has been a busy week with my anniversary and the kids coming home for a lot of auto repairs and maintenance. Hoping to heat up the lead tomorrow right after work. I kind of ran out of 9mm projectiles and need a few to shoot this coming weekend. I’ll let you know how it works for me.

[HI-TEK]

HI-TEK, I was just checking to see if the mold release set/cured. I tried it again at 550 deg F. before I saw your last post so I see now why it comes off on my finger like graphite. I was kind of thinking it was supposed to cure like hitek coating, just at a higher temperature. I have not tried to pour lead into it yet as it has been a busy week with my anniversary and the kids coming home for a lot of auto repairs and maintenance. Hoping to heat up the lead tomorrow right after work. I kind of ran out of 9mm projectiles and need a few to shoot this coming weekend. I’ll let you know how it works for me.

flybyjohn
first the product is not graphite but will stain skin, that can be washed off with soapy water with scrubbing.
Originally this product was made as a aerosol for coating Glass forming Molds. Glass went into the Molds at about 1200C, and the bonding release agent had to produce a mirror smooth finish on the Glass.
The product is now simply made for users, to chose how they use the product and is not dangerous goods as an aerosol, and can be transported via post, road and air freight.
In casting, the setting/bonding rate is very slow. It can be used to cast other metals as well.
melting point of metals where the bonding release agent will work is ;
Metals Fahrenheit (F)........Celsius (C)
Admiralty Brass 1650-1720 ...............900-940
Aluminium 1220............................660
Aluminum Alloys 865-1240.................463-671
Aluminum Bronze 1190-1215................600-655
Zinc .................................................. 450C

[Avenger442]

flybyjohn
I suspect you are talking about 400 to 500 degrees F. The Bonded release agent requires some 900 degrees + F, (500 degrees Celsius) to help the setting and the bonding property.

The "bonding" property, is supposed to simply hold release agent onto surfaces of the Mold metals. The outside of the film surface, can transfer onto skin.
The transfer onto skin, is normal, but why did you wipe it with your finger?
How did your casting go using the Bonding release agent?

So am I reading this right? It takes 900+ F to cure the bonded mold release?
If correct then what are people using to cure the mold release? My hot plate will do about 700+F. Best my oven will do is about 600F. I have a propane torch:bigsmyl2:

[HI-TEK]

So am I reading this right? It takes 900+ F to cure the bonded mold release?
If correct then what are people using to cure the mold release? My hot plate will do about 700+F. Best my oven will do is about 600F. I have a propane torch:bigsmyl2:

Avenger no need to do any thing to the release agent film after application.. The "bonding part", is there to hold the applied product onto surfaces.
That way it reduces the need for re-application rates.
It follows my rationale, use less is best. The bonding agent is not detrimentally affected by Casting temperatures used with Lead alloys.

As discovered by finger wiping, the excess on surface can be wiped off. The residue left on Mold will work.
Curing/bond can be improved but it is done in a furnace where temperatures are also controlled. For Lead alloy casting the product works well as is.
At casting conditions, it will take quite a while for bonding to cure and product will work as a release agent. The side benefit is, that coating can be mostly cleaned off, if required.
If it works, don't try to fix it......LOL

By the way, if you are thinking of heating an Aluminum Mold with a Propane torch, you may end up melting the Mold as Aluminum alloys start to melt ranges of 470C to 680C depending on alloy composition.

[Avenger442]

Joe

I know you didn't think I was going to torch my mold.

Thanks for the clarification. Paint on mold and use. Will set on mold at casting temperatures.

[HI-TEK]

Joe

I know you didn't think I was going to torch my mold.

Thanks for the clarification. Paint on mold and use. Will set on mold at casting temperatures.

Avenger
I did not think like that at all. I am aware that some people pre-heat Aluminum Molds and I was quoting melt temperatures of such metals so that if they do use any heating system to be careful. The Mold release is designed to work as is. Casting temperatures are perfect for bonding alloy release to work.

[Gremlin460]

Hello

[HI-TEK]

Hello

hello to you I have tried to contact you by phone

[flybyjohn]

Well, I cast some 9mm last night and the bonded mold release worked just fine. I will say that this was the very first casting session that all 6 projectiles of the first pour were 100% usable bullets. I am not sure if I just normally don't warm up my mold enough before I start or if the mold release was the cause but never have I ever had good bullets out of the first cast before. They usually have wrinkles for about 10 pours or more before they start getting better. Maybe the oil I used to use on the top of blocks and under sprue plate was a cause for this, not sure but no wrinkles with this bonded mold release. Bullet fell from mold as usual (easy). Out of 16lbs of bullets, I had only about 4 projectiles that I had to cull out because I had a incomplete cavity fill, my fault. That's 860 good ones out of 864 total, best I have ever had. I think I dropped more on the floor coating them then I had to cull out. Half way through, I noticed a little lead smear on the top of the blocks and I used a wood pencil to knock it off and it came off super easy. I usually have to really dig at it to dislodge them in the past. Not really thinking, I decided to reapply some more release to the hot sprue plate and ended up with a brush without bristles. Melted them right off. I guess cold mold or natural bristles from now on.

I have two piles of lead, clip on wheel weights and stick on weights with tin and antimony added. I didn't mark my ingot piles and don't remember what pile is what any more. They both have about the same ring when banged together. Anyway, I started with a pour temperature of 715 deg F ,my normal pour temp., and pouring was going just fine. I then turned down to 680 and pouring continued to work just fine. Again turned down to 650 and still great bullets and drop. I turned off the pot and continued to pour until mold didn't completely fill anymore and bullets still fell out of mold. So temperature didn't have any effect on sticking for me with the bonded mold release. I was able to cut the sprue after 28-30 seconds with the lower 650 deg F temperature where I was at nearly 40 seconds with 715 deg F.

I was quite surprised at how little it did take to coat the mold. I mixed up about 40 ml and I put it on super thick, multiple coats, I know, not what the directions say. I think I will be able to coat all the rest of my molds and not even be able to tell that I used any of what I mixed up.

[flybyjohn]

While coating this last batch of bullets, I noticed my baking trays are getting pretty beat up. I made them out of galvanized 1/4” hardware mesh, folding up and interlocking the corners. The trays worked well for a while but I don’t think they are really up to the task of the heavy loads of bullets long term. I know a lot of folks here are using perforated trays and I was wondering where those folks source them from. Everywhere I am looking, the trays are quite expensive. Does anyone have a source for a good economic tray?

[Ausglock]

buy once, cry once.
Stainless Perf plate 13" square with a 1/2" lip bent up on all 4 sides.
Hole size is 4mm.
I have 36 of them
Local Sheet metal business bent them up for me.
Not cheap, but will last forever.

[M.A.D]

Question, How fast can you send Hi-Tek coated plain base lead bullets? How hard an alloy and how many coats? Eg 2000 fps? And Carbide Lee APP sizing dies i need to drop off to someone.Still have 5 more dies to finish . 299649

[Ausglock]

Have sent 155gn Lee mold 309"dia out of Parker Hale 308 with no gas check at 2300fps.
Accuracy was Ok... Not brilliant, but OK.
2 coats of Kryptonite green on 2,6,92 hardball alloy

Can you make those dies in .3565" and .3575"?

I use Lee APP sizer dies that are turned down on the outer dia to fit inside the 7/8x14 die hole on a Lee press. They slide in and are kept in place with a hollow 7/8x14 bolt body... Note. My Lee press is up side down.

[Tazza]

That is way faster than i thought they could go without leading. What sort of twist rate was that?

I have altered my sizer to handle APP dies, you drop them in the hole and gravity holds them in place, that and surface rust in the holder.... The only disadvantage for my setup is that i can't wind it out so it will sit lower for longer projectiles to not stick out and catch the slider, but i have an idea of how to get around that issue that will hopefully work.

Awesome work on the dies, they look great and will last even a commercial caster a life time

[DDriller]

Finally got to try some new to me Hi-Tek powder.
299692 Bronze .32cal
299693 Gold 1035 .36 cal
299694 Gold 1035 .69 cal
299695 Red 254 .32 cal
299696 Zombie Green .60 cal

[HI-TEK]

Finally got to try some new to me Hi-Tek powder.
299692 Bronze
299693 Gold 1035
299694 Gold 1035
299695 Red 254
299696 Zombie Green

very nice, good work....

[DDriller]

Thanks, only did 5# of each. Need to do some bullets in the bronze.

[Ausglock]

All look over baked.

[HI-TEK]

Thanks, only did 5# of each. Need to do some bullets in the bronze.

looking forward to what you make...

[HI-TEK]

All look over baked.

may be over baked a little, but quite acceptable finish

[DDriller]

All look over baked.

Probably a little. Waited 2 minutes after infared thermometer reached 180 C. Temp jumped 10 degrees in that 2 minutes. Coating looked good so I did all of them that way.

[HI-TEK]

Probably a little. Waited 2 minutes after infared thermometer reached 180 C. Temp jumped 10 degrees in that 2 minutes. Coating looked good so I did all of them that way.

You may have your set temperature a little higher than needed, or, may be, your thermostat has large swings with temperature control, so final temperatures can over shoot.
If you are happy with results, it is OK.

[flybyjohn]

I was searching for perforated steel to make some trays and came across these baguette pans that have a bunch of little holes in them. The only problem is they are shaped like a log holder with three droops. They are light sheet metal but with some bends in them are quite stiff. I flattened out the pans with the 20 ton press and folded the sides up to get the right size for the oven. I welded the corners although it wasn’t required. They turned out nice for 7.00 each plus about an hour labor 299826299827299828for each one.

[HI-TEK]

I was searching for perforated steel to make some trays and came across these baguette pans that have a bunch of little holes in them. The only problem is they are shaped like a log holder with three droops. They are light sheet metal but with some bends in them are quite stiff. I flattened out the pans with the 20 ton press and folded the sides up to get the right size for the oven. I welded the corners although it wasn’t required. They turned out nice for 7.00 each plus about an hour labor 299826299827299828for each one.

Great job... well done, very innovative design...

[flybyjohn]

Only problem is that they are so slick that when you do a pan shake part way through the cook cycle, the bullets don’t really move much because there is nothing to grab onto them like the 1/4” hardware cloth did.

Haven’t cooked in them yet but I suppose I will have to recalibrate my cook time since the tray has so much more mass then the hardware cloth did.

[HI-TEK]

Only problem is that they are so slick that when you do a pan shake part way through the cook cycle, the bullets don’t really move much because there is nothing to grab onto them like the 1/4” hardware cloth did.

Haven’t cooked in them yet but I suppose I will have to recalibrate my cook time since the tray has so much more mass then the hardware cloth did.

The extra mass of metal will help in evening out temperature distribution.
I suspect, that they have a non stick surface with fused PTFE, so coatings should not leave any residue, and what does stick, may be easily wiped off as the coatings should not stick to PTFE.
Your idea is a great one. may be you can start a new product for hobbyists and larger casters.

[Dave001]

Since lead oxidize so quickly, Is there anything I should do before coating projectiles that were cast a few weeks ago?

[Ausglock]

G'day Dave.
Mate... Just coat them as normal.
I have cast uncoated sitting here for months before they get coated and Baked.
No ill effects at all.

[HI-TEK]

Since lead oxidize so quickly, Is there anything I should do before coating projectiles that were cast a few weeks ago?

How are you doing Dave, great question.
Do you know composition of your Lead alloy?
Just a quick heads up, if you are casting using "unknown" mixtures that may contain Zinc, Magnesium, Cadmium, or similar contaminants, these will form heavier oxidation film on surfaces, that may interfere with coating adhesion. If you are using 92-6-2 alloy stored casts will be OK to coat. If you suspect contamination of alloy, you may need to acid treat wash and dry before coating is done.

[Dave001]

I got 120kg of lead from the local scrap guy, 35kg was COWW, the rest was already in ingots, and was suppose to be COWW, but who knows, I tested for Zinc using hydrochloric acid, the lead ingots didn't react, so I melted the whole lot together, new ingots are around 12-13 bhn, water dropped projectiles are showing around 15-16bhn.

I'll play it safe and acid treat them, I'm guessing a 20% hydrochloric acid/water mix for 20 mins or so, should do the job?

Thanks for the replies, much appreciated.

[HI-TEK]

I got 120kg of lead from the local scrap guy, 35kg was COWW, the rest was already in ingots, and was suppose to be COWW, but who knows, I tested for Zinc using hydrochloric acid, the lead ingots didn't react, so I melted the whole lot together, new ingots are around 12-13 bhn, water dropped projectiles are showing around 15-16bhn.

I'll play it safe and acid treat them, I'm guessing a 20% hydrochloric acid/water mix for 20 mins or so, should do the job?

Thanks for the replies, much appreciated.



You are welcome.
Generally the Acid is normally about 30%. This is diluted with 2 parts water and add 1 part Acid.
Watch if any bubbles can be seen, and look at them after suitable acid soak time. If they change surface appearance and starting to look a bit porous or changed colour, then the acid has worked.
If you don't know what is in your alloy, it will save a lot of work to treat them first.
I you are coating them as is, and then have to re-melt and re cast, then you will have to treat them afterwards with Acid and re-do the coating.
Hope all goes well.

[HI-TEK]

I got 120kg of lead from the local scrap guy, 35kg was COWW, the rest was already in ingots, and was suppose to be COWW, but who knows, I tested for Zinc using hydrochloric acid, the lead ingots didn't react, so I melted the whole lot together, new ingots are around 12-13 bhn, water dropped projectiles are showing around 15-16bhn.

I'll play it safe and acid treat them, I'm guessing a 20% hydrochloric acid/water mix for 20 mins or so, should do the job?

Thanks for the replies, much appreciated.

How are you doing Dave001?
How did you go with alloy treatment and coating?
Please update.

[Dave001]

All went well thanks mate.
Acid bathed 300, 435 grain 45 cal projectiles last night, using your suggested 1/3 acid, 2/3 water, took about 25 mins for the them to change colour, they turned a dull grey, never noticed any bubbling.
Gave them 3 coats of 1035 gold, they passed the rub and smash test. Hopefully I'll get a chance to make it to the range next week to test them.

[HI-TEK]

All went well thanks mate.
Acid bathed 300, 435 grain 45 cal projectiles last night, using your suggested 1/3 acid, 2/3 water, took about 25 mins for the them to change colour, they turned a dull grey, never noticed any bubbling.
Gave them 3 coats of 1035 gold, they passed the rub and smash test. Hopefully I'll get a chance to make it to the range next week to test them.

Great news.
just the mere fact that casts changed colour shows that there was some contaminants present that reacted with the acid..
The acid simply got rid of surface contaminations adequately for success.
I have seen similar results with acid treatment that produced almost identical changes of colour of the casts.
Thanks for posting reply.

[Avenger442]

Been away for a while. Good to see Hi Tek thread is still going strong. How has everyone been?

Just for information's sake and per my memory (which is not as good as it used to be) if you find that you have zinc contaminant in your alloy you can do a process that will swap the zinc for copper. And copper lead alloy mix coats very well.

I intentionally added zinc to some lead alloy a few years ago so that I could get the copper into the mix. It is a swap copper for zinc. Used zinc pennies to contaminate and used copper sulfate ( I believe that is stump remover from your local hardware store) to mix with the contaminated alloy to replace the zinc with copper. Process is on this blog somewhere. Copper really ups the malleability and hardness of the alloy. But in the end it wasn't what I wanted, either in the process or the outcome. My 12=14 BHN lead alloy was good for everything I was shooting. It was an interesting experiment.

Now that I'm starting to load some magnum rifle I may revisit this alloy. Still have some of the bullets cast with it stored in my cabinet.

[Ausglock]

G'day Avenger.
You are correct, Sir. Root killer will remove the Zinc.

This thread has been quiet of late. Maybe everyone has the HITEK process sorted out.

There are a few here in oz that have tried the S.A. coating and are not impressed. The have gone back to HITEK as it is easier and less involved. Even though HITEK doesn't have the colour range, The bores are cleaner.

[Avenger442]

I have never been into it for the color range. Although I do appreciate Joe working on orange and blue(school colors).

Hi Tec has proven to be the thing that keeps lead out of my barrels at jacketed speeds. Which is the most important thing. And it, with other consistent measures, produces rounds as accurate as match grade manufactured jacketed rifle ammo with a bullet I can cast myself. It was tested slightly more accurate than powder coating in pistol ammo. And when you extrapolate that accuracy out for rifle it, hands down, produces a more accurate bullet. While it is not a snap your fingers and it is coated, it is the easiest thing I have tried. And it is economical. I mean shelf stable outrageously economical (it does change a little in the color over the years). I still have some of the 1035 Gold two part liquid that was my first coating. And it still works. Just about used that one up. I've over the eight years that I have been using it bought several other colors and used them all. There is a thread on this blog where hobby guys like me are swapping colors because they just have a lot of one color and will probably never use it up. If I were a commercial coater it would be the only thing I would use and recommend. And you guys down under Joe and Trevor are a stand up crew in my book for producing and testing this product for everyone. Having used Donnie here in the States and now Alan Easterly over at High Performance Bullet Coatings I've got to say they are great people and should be a valued distributor for JA here in the States

The above is an unpaid, unless you count the performance of the coating, unsolicited endorsement. And a recommendation to anyone using lead cast bullets.

[HI-TEK]

I have never been into it for the color range. Although I do appreciate Joe working on orange and blue(school colors).

Hi Tec has proven to be the thing that keeps lead out of my barrels at jacketed speeds. Which is the most important thing. And it, with other consistent measures, produces rounds as accurate as match grade manufactured jacketed rifle ammo with a bullet I can cast myself. It was tested slightly more accurate than powder coating in pistol ammo. And when you extrapolate that accuracy out for rifle it, hands down, produces a more accurate bullet. While it is not a snap your fingers and it is coated, it is the easiest thing I have tried. And it is economical. I mean shelf stable outrageously economical (it does change a little in the color over the years). I still have some of the 1035 Gold two part liquid that was my first coating. And it still works. Just about used that one up. I've over the eight years that I have been using it bought several other colors and used them all. There is a thread on this blog where hobby guys like me are swapping colors because they just have a lot of one color and will probably never use it up. If I were a commercial coater it would be the only thing I would use and recommend. And you guys down under Joe and Trevor are a stand up crew in my book for producing and testing this product for everyone. Having used Donnie here in the States and now Alan Easterly over at High Performance Bullet Coatings I've got to say they are great people and should be a valued distributor for JA here in the States

The above is an unpaid, unless you count the performance of the coating, unsolicited endorsement. And a recommendation to anyone using lead cast bullets.

Hello Avenger442,
Thank you for your post. It is much appreciated.
I am glad that you have found the Hi-Tek products satisfactory.
With colors, there is quite a few Hi-Tek colors.
Black (standard), Black K-15, Texas Tea, (Black with Golden Metallics), Gunmetal, (very dark Green Grey), Bonze 500, Bronze 502, Bronze 530, Red Copper, Blush Red Copper, Red 254, Red 122, Kryptonite Green, Zombie Green, Dark Green metallic, Dark Blue, VO2 (Black Cherry), Old Gold, Gold 1035, Aztec Gold, Desert Sand (Tan Yellow), Candy Apple, (Red with Gold Glitter), Burnt Orange,

There are on going tests being conducted, to try and supply other color types, but simply making a pretty colored coating, may not meet all other technical requirements, so that is the main driving force when any new colors are being tested. If colour produced is also remains attractive, it is a win win situation.
I have not seen any other coating that will work at 3000ft/sec with such a very thin coat and survive, and maintain reasonable accuracy.
As you said, it does not leave Lead in the bore.
The Hi-Tek coatings have been on the market for some 30 plus years. It would not be there that long if it did not work.
It is sold to some 35 countries to both hobbyists and commercial casters. There is a huge range of U-Tube postings, and Hi-Tek is included in many blog site discussions.
Again, thank you for your kind post.

[panhandle]

For the rifle shooters- I was using the hytec powder that has the catalyst in it with acetone. baking at 400 for ten minutes per coat like directions said. ended up doing three to four coats trying to get a little additional diameter on 309 cat 170 grain bullets. I was experiencing buildup in the forcing cone I guess as after 6 to 8 rounds they would chamber hard or not at all. I use the stuff on pistol bullets but in the rifles I had bad results, I was trying for a little extra diameter to shoot in winchester 94's with a .309 bore. they shot pretty good without coating in my 30-06 with a 308 bore just using checks and alox. I still would like to think I could use the hytec as I have it on hand but even in the 06- I got hard chambering with the coated ones. maybe I'm doing something wrong and it's possible 2 coats would give better results

[Ausglock]

G'day Panhandle.

Mate. By doing 6 or more coats to try and increase the bullet dia will not work. As you have found, the coating will leave a residue in the barrel. Think of it like this...
A thin glass rod will bend slightly... this is 2 coats.
A thick rod will not bend, but will break... this is more than 3 coats.
As the bullet expands with firing to seal the bore, the thin coating will also expand.
But the thick coating will fracture and split.
If your mold is throwing underize, I'd suggest "beagleing" the mold.

HITEK coating isn't a fix-all for poor bullet fit.

[dikman]

Like Avenger, I haven't been on here for quite a while. Several reasons, not the least being that I've got the coating thing pretty well down pat, plus I've got so many boolits coated that, given my age, there's a very real possibility that I'll never use them all!:lol: Some guys on another forum, here in Oz, have discovered the benefits of powder coating boolits but I can't convince them to try the Hi-Tek coating, they seem to think it's more trouble to do than powder-coating. Ironically, one chap has had trouble with powder-coating increasing the boolit size too much and causing chambering issues, I suggested the Hi-Tek coating as a possible solution but got no response.
Some time ago I bought some powder-coating powder, in several colours, for coating metal parts. I also built an electrostatic gun for the coating process. I have got zero interest in trying to do boolits! I figure why change something that's working. :smile:

[ioon44]

I haven't posted here for some time but continue to follow the post. I've got the coating thing pretty well down pat also, just done 2,100 140gr fp for 9 mm with Kryptonite Green, came out great as usual.

[Avenger442]

Like the last two guys I've got the process where I want it. Which was basically the no lead in the barrel with good accuracy objective. I often don't pay much attention to color.

When i first started using Hi Tek I got it in my head that maybe it could be used to make a jacket. As Trevor pointed out at some point probably after three coats it will start to flake off the bullet. I did some 45s with three heavy coats that failed the smash test so bad I thought that I had something on the bullet when coated. But it was just too thick.

I understand that you may be able to use powder coating to increase diameter and create something like a jacket. And I'm sure it would, at some point, come off the bullet when fired. But my experience with powder coated is that they just aren't as accurate as Hi Tek. I'm sure some of the powder coaters would dispute this claim. And I would ask them to show me a group of five shots in .308 at 100 yards that could be covered with a nickle (my best so far). But accuracy comes down to much more than a coating. And the above is just my opinion formed through my testing and experience.

It works great in my .308s at jacketed speeds using three normally thin coats. I have shot it with one coat at around 2400 fps in .308 with no lead in my Weatherby. But it gets better accuracy with three coats at 2500-2600 fps. This is a product where a minimal amount can be used with good success.

I have coated and shot all the following calibers: in handguns 9mm, 38, 357 mag, 44 special, 44 mag and in rifle .223, 308, 30-06, 45-70. And I could add 300 PRC to that list if I would just make myself sit down and start working on loads. I've only used store bought jacketed in it so far.

I started using Hi Tek in 2014 just after I started casting bullets. Had looked at other lubes but didn't want either the expense of the equipment or the mess or both. Hi Tek had neither. I've, like Dikman, talked with others about using it some have and some simply refuse to try it. Some of these guys have been casting and shooting lead for decades before I started. I guess sometimes you just get your process and don't want to change. Maybe if I had started with paper patch I might be still doing that. Always wanted to try that one. But I started with Hi Tek and will keep a process that gives me under MOA at 100 yards when I do my part.

Maybe some of you other guys viewing this thread could chime in with your experiences with Hi Tek. And of course anyone with a question on how to get started or on a problem your having. I, for one, would love to hear from you.

[dikman]

Your experience at pushing the coating to rifle speeds is impressive, and you're to be congratulated at persevering with the testing. It's also natural for people, when starting out, to want a solid colour and thick coating (as in trying to make a "jacketed"-type round) and as we know that just doesn't work, it has to be thin - which is almost counter-intuitive and is difficult for some people to grasp.

I've also coated my round balls for Black Powder shooting. Yes, some will say it's not necessary and doesn't achieve anything practical (true) but I did it because a) I can and b) it makes them look pretty!:lol:

[Avenger442]

I appreciate the idea of having your ammo look good with various colors. Even remember someone on here using Hi Tek to color code their ammo. I think applause is due Joe who works so hard to produce colors. It is important in business to compete. But it could have been all the colors on the color wheel and not performed, which it does very well at an amazing price, and it would not have performed it's main function. I don't fault the guy that wants a "pretty" bullet. But some of my loads are down right ugly:bigsmyl2:.

Since you mentioned black powder I'll give you my limited experience. Being a DIY kind of guy, a few years ago I decided that I wanted to learn how to make my own black powder. So after making it I needed to test it. I loaded a few 44 mag shells almost full. Based on my reading about loading black powder shells I put a thin piece of card board on top of the powder. Added some type of bee's wax mix (forget the mix exactly) to the end of the Hi Trk bullet. Loads shot decent groups at 15 yards in my Ruger. But man that stuff was dirty. I didn't clean enough between rounds and it locked up the revolver. I was satisfied with the end result and have never attempted shooting black powder again. Still have some FFG and FFFG somewhere. If smokeless powder ever gets impossible to find and I run out I'm covered for anything with a big shell capacity. Maybe 45-70. I have a black powder rifle that I purchased with a group of guns that had a rifle and shot gun I wanted. The lady said buy the whole group or none at all. I have yet to shoot that gun. Maybe another project some day.

[dikman]

Yep, BP is great for fouling pistols! Even with Hi-Tek coated boolits you still need lube to try and keep the fouling soft. If you do try again put a waxed felt wad under the boolit.

[Stephen Cohen]

G'day Avenger.
You are correct, Sir. Root killer will remove the Zinc.

This thread has been quiet of late. Maybe everyone has the HITEK process sorted out.

There are a few here in oz that have tried the S.A. coating and are not impressed. The have gone back to HITEK as it is easier and less involved. Even though HITEK doesn't have the colour range, The bores are cleaner.

Since your from down under, what root killer are we talking of, I have seen liquid but I imagine we would have to use a powder or some solid. Any info appreciated. Regards Stephen

[Stephen Cohen]

A couple years back I cast some 170gr cast in a Lyman 156gr cast mould that I had removed the lube grooves from and coated with Hi-Tek Copper, I loaded some up for my 357 Rossi and shot them a couple weeks back, they were loaded hot and I wont give the load but man they shot well and after some 200 odd rounds the bore was clean of any fouling other than the powder residue which wiped out no worries. My old eyes can no longer use iron sights so I made a peep which I can use. I was able to hit the Ram sillywet at the 200 first shot with considerable holdover, of cause I stopped there so to keep my perfect record. Next thing is to try coating some 45gr .22 for my 223 and Hornet. Regards Stephen

[Ausglock]

Since your from down under, what root killer are we talking of, I have seen liquid but I imagine we would have to use a powder or some solid. Any info appreciated. Regards Stephen

Copper sulphate crystals from Bunnings. in a blue bottle.

[HI-TEK]

Copper sulphate crystals from Bunnings. in a blue bottle.

You need to shop around as prices for Copper Sulphate varies greatly. Have a look at rural feedstock outlets, they should carry it, and may be cheaper.
Copper Sulphate comes as Blue crystals, and has Water of crystallization, and it is also available as anhydrous version which is more a whitish powder.
Both works well, but the Blue Crystals, what you buy contains water. Formula is CuSO4.5H2O. The white powder version contains little or no water. You can buy it on Ebay cheap as, when comparing it to other outlets.

Just an afterthought, if you are interested, you probably can make your own Copper Sulphate by using Old Lead Battery acid and scrap Copper wire, Copper tubing, and let it soak in the acid, in a plastic container/bucket that is OK with acid use. (use excess Copper to acid in weight). The Copper will dissolve slowly, and the acid will start to go blue, but if you have time and in no rush, it is an easy way to make your own Copper Sulphate. The best thing is, that it is free, if you have old dead car battery and scrap Copper.
Take care using battery acid, and just make sure you dont get the acid on yourself or your clothes. Wear rubber or latex gloves and eye protection against splashing.

[Avenger442]

Sorry Stephen. I've actually been in an area where there is no connection for my computer. So I just now saw your question. But Joe and Trevor did a good job answering it. I actually used the blue crystals. And they do contain a bit of moisture. Something that goes along with that is they will pop and crackle a little when added to the melt. They will produce a grey ash like material on top of the melt to be skimmed off. I would guess this contains the zinc.

Search this site "copper sulfate zinc"

[HI-TEK]

Sorry Stephen. I've actually been in an area where there is no connection for my computer. So I just now saw your question. But Joe and Trevor did a good job answering it. I actually used the blue crystals. And they do contain a bit of moisture. Something that goes along with that is they will pop and crackle a little when added to the melt. They will produce a grey ash like material on top of the melt to be skimmed off. I would guess this contains the zinc.

Search this site "copper sulfate zinc"

Avenger
When using Copper Sulphate, initially, put the Blue crystals on top of the cold alloy, Then start heating to melt the alloy. As temperature rises, it also will dry the Copper Sulphate and it will not pop and crackle.
Adding Copper Sulphate to alloy containing Zinc, the Copper sulphate will react with Zinc, and the Copper is then displaced, and Zinc will take its place forming Zinc Sulphate.
There are some questions if in fact the Copper actually melts into the molten Lead. Some seem to think that it happens, but others say it does not happen. Whatever Copper does not melt into the molten Lead it will be contained in the powdery residue floating on top of the molten alloy which is skimmed off.
The difficulty I can see is, that it is difficult to determine, at what point all the Zinc has been adequately removed. You can also have excess Copper Sulphate, and this will be removed during skimming of the molten alloy surface.
If you have a lot of Zinc in your alloy, the Copper Sulphate treatment may become expensive as you have to use a lot. For cost saving, my suggestion is just to cast with the contaminated alloy, then, Acid treat cast to remove surface Zinc and other unwanted surface metals before going towards the coating. That way you will leave majority of contaminants within the cast, and only remove surface contamination. The Hydrochloric Acid treatment is significantly cheaper that using a lot of Copper Sulphate.

[Summitcitybullets]

....

[Ausglock]

....

Interesting post you have there, Summitcitybullets.
Care to elaborate??
lol

[HI-TEK]

Interesting post you have there, Summitcitybullets.
Care to elaborate??
lol

I dont know for sure, but it must be a coded message, not for your eyes.

[Avenger442]

OK guys. I'm back to civilization and web access.

So Joe I'm having a little trouble being sure of what you said. Does copper get incorporated into the lead alloy?

[HI-TEK]

OK guys. I'm back to civilization and web access.

So Joe I'm having a little trouble being sure of what you said. Does copper get incorporated into the lead alloy?


Avenger,
It was thought by some folk, that by using Copper Sulphate to remove Zinc, that when the metal displacement occurs, and Zinc is displacing Copper from the Copper Sulphate, the replaced Copper will dissolve into the molten alloy. Some think that this is what happens. Others, have a different opinion about the displaced Copper, and Copper was not dissolving into the molten alloy.
The melting point of Copper is very high, and well above the melting conditions used for the Lead. I have not seen any figures that either confirm or disprove this Copper solubility method.
I had read somewhere, a long time ago, that Copper wire was used as a MIG welding metal and was fed (welded) into the Molten Lead. The melting temperatures at metals interface, obtained by this method, it was claimed that Copper actually went into the molten Lead. How much Copper was "welded" into Lead alloy, it was claimed that the user weighed the Copper wire before and afterwards.
I have not seen any spectrographic tests that would confirm actual copper content of the Lead using this method.
I am a little skeptical about adding Copper to Lead metal via chemical reaction, or with Via Electric arc method.
I am happy to be proven wrong with all of this.

[dikman]

Given the hugely disparate temperatures for melting lead and copper I'm at a loss to see how copper could combine (fuse?) with lead at lead melting temperatures. It seems to me that any free copper, which would be in minute amounts, is likely to be mixed in with the dross.
But then, I'm not a metallurgist, just a neophyte who has played around with melting things.

[No_1]

....


Interesting post you have there, Summitcitybullets.
Care to elaborate??
lol


I dont know for sure, but it must be a coded message, not for your eyes.

Look at his posts count - he has been randomly posting “stuff” all over the forum today in an attempt to gain access to forum areas which have a minimum post count requirement. I deleted the rest of his posts but didn’t feel have the time to message each of you (who quoted him) with an explanation why I deleted your posts along with his.

[Avenger442]

Joe
We have a person on this forum that has access to spectrographic testing equipment. If he is willing of course, I'll ask if he can test a sample of the bullets I made by this method. Maybe that will put this to bed.

I can say that the bullets, when tested by my Lee tester, showed a higher BHN at 14 days. But being an unprofessional using the tester I used I don't know that this could have not happened for some other reason. Understand that I started with clean alloy COWW and I believe I added 2% tin. Then added the zinc via penneys (over 90% zinc) cut to help dissolve them into the mix. I haven't gone back and read my notes but I basically followed the method described on this forum to do this. And one last thing the resulting alloy seemed to be more malleable than the original. Of course this was an eye observation and not a scientific test. And there may have been some other reason other than the copper for this.

Will try to contact person today to see if he is willing to test.

[HI-TEK]

Joe
We have a person on this forum that has access to spectrographic testing equipment. If he is willing of course, I'll ask if he can test a sample of the bullets I made by this method. Maybe that will put this to bed.

I can say that the bullets, when tested by my Lee tester, showed a higher BHN at 14 days. But being an unprofessional using the tester I used I don't know that this could have not happened for some other reason. Understand that I started with clean alloy COWW and I believe I added 2% tin. Then added the zinc via penneys (over 90% zinc) cut to help dissolve them into the mix. I haven't gone back and read my notes but I basically followed the method described on this forum to do this. And one last thing the resulting alloy seemed to be more malleable than the original. Of course this was an eye observation and not a scientific test. And there may have been some other reason other than the copper for this.

Will try to contact person today to see if he is willing to test.

Hello Avenger
It will be great to test your alloy which was treated with Copper Sulphate. I also would be very interested in the results. It may be possible, that you did get some Copper dissolve, but I am a little skeptical, but I really hope that it works. I am a little puzzled why you mixed in some Zinc, then, try to remove it later on.
Your adding Tin, will improve malleability. Please post results, many will be interested in the outcome.
The only details that may be needed is, the weights/ratio of your metal mix.

[Avenger442]

The member has graciously accepted my request for test and asked for samples of before alloy and after.

Will try to get to mailing samples this week. I have several things in front of it. He will not be able to test until maybe next week. Allowing for mailing of sample, testing and reply will probably have the answer back in a couple of weeks weeks.

I did not have this available to me until recently. It has made a difference in consistency in my alloy. Unlike some i don't usually use the ordered certified alloy like Rotometals. So getting consistency from COWW and stuff off Ebay can be a problem. I can be thrifty that way. My wife says cheap:). I guess she may know after 48 years.

[Stephen Cohen]

Family crisis over an I am back, thank you all for the feed back on copper sulphate it is all very interesting. I have removed Zink from lead with Sulphur and you do not want to breath those fumes. I do not know that Copper is put into melt but I did try the very thin copper speaker wire that someone suggested and it did seem to melt away when I fed it into mix by hand, I know my bloody fingers did. I have often wondered if the copper did mix through the alloy or was just contained in little pockets. It will be interesting to find if the theory has any credibility. Regards Stephen.

[Avenger442]

OK, test results are back on alloy. And thanks to BN for the help with spectrogram tests.

Pb = 88.7%
Sb = 6.7%
Sn = 4.4%
Cu = 0.2%

Since the copper is supposed to replace the zinc 1 to 1 it looks like I need to add more zinc next time. I don't have any zinc contaminated so I have to make it. I'll admit that I only used about six or seven zinc pennies in that batch. Not sure how much zinc that is. May have to try some pure zinc in a measured percentage of alloy to produce more copper in the alloy. Not really looking for something else to do right now so I may not get to it for a long while. And it is a nasty process.

[HI-TEK]

OK, test results are back on alloy. And thanks to BN for the help with spectrogram tests.

Pb = 88.7%
Sb = 6.7%
Sn = 4.4%
Cu = 0.2%

Since the copper is supposed to replace the zinc 1 to 1 it looks like I need to add more zinc next time. I don't have any zinc contaminated so I have to make it. I'll admit that I only used about six or seven zinc pennies in that batch. Not sure how much zinc that is. May have to try some pure zinc in a measured percentage of alloy to produce more copper in the alloy. Not really looking for something else to do right now so I may not get to it for a long while. And it is a nasty process.

Interesting results Avenger.
It would be great if it can be determined, how much Zinc was there in the beginning, and then how much Copper ended up to get the 0.2% Copper in the alloy.
For 65.4 grams of Zinc, the equivalent amount of copper is 63.5 grams, as you said about 1 to 1.
With metal replacement, it is the Zinc that replaces Copper. If you add more Zinc metal, I don't know if it will affect Copper content of the alloy. If you add Zinc to the alloy, and then Copper Sulphate, you will remove the Zinc, and as hoped, and add Copper to the alloy.
The difficulty is to get actual percentages. Adding excess Copper Sulphate to remove Zinc, and, when Zinc is removed, and having excess Copper Sulphate on top of molten alloy, then you also may start removing Tin, and some Antimony and will end up as Sulphates of those metals on top of molten alloy. With that reaction, I suppose you may end up with more Copper in alloy, but may be less Tin and less Antimony. The only way to determine all facts, is having accurate details of alloy composition, actual weights of Metal and or Copper Sulphate being added, and seeing results obtained with Spectrograph each time. A lot of work.

[Avenger442]

And like I said, I'm booked up for a while. I haven't even loaded any rounds for a few months. But it would be a worthy experiment with measured start and measured results. Maybe someone will read this and take the time to do it right.

[Ausglock]

2 new colours from HITEK.
Red Fire and HT Blue
This blue is stable when baked at elevated temps.
I baked the test samples at 205deg for 10 mins. My normal bake is 198deg C for 7 1/2 mins.
306589
306590

I have loaded the blue 125gn Conicals in 38 Supercomp Major power factor loads and fired 200 rounds yesterday in practice for IPSC. Zero fouling in the bore or the compensator of the STI TruBor race gun.

[Jatz357]

2 new colours from HITEK.
Red Fire and HT Blue
This blue is stable when baked at elevated temps.
I baked the test samples at 205deg for 10 mins. My normal bake is 198deg C for 7 1/2 mins.
306589
306590

I have loaded the blue 125gn Conicals in 38 Supercomp Major power factor loads and fired 200 rounds yesterday in practice for IPSC. Zero fouling in the bore or the compensator of the STI TruBor race gun.

They look pretty good.

[popper]

Avenger- you didn't add enough copper, it converted all the Zn but not much Sn (it will replace SN in alloy). It shows up as elemental not as some weird compound. I've run 0.2% to 2%, cast and shoot fine. Just depends on how tough you want your bullets. Shot some PB 145gr to 2k in 300 BO, accurate. I just found it more difficult to WD (heat treat) the HiTek than PC. Never recovered any rifle bullets but posted pics of 165gr PB TC 40sw into a rock pile from ~5 ft, 98% wt retention with some expansion.

[Jhopson]

2 new colours from HITEK.
Red Fire and HT Blue
This blue is stable when baked at elevated temps.
I baked the test samples at 205deg for 10 mins. My normal bake is 198deg C for 7 1/2 mins.
306589
306590

I have loaded the blue 125gn Conicals in 38 Supercomp Major power factor loads and fired 200 rounds yesterday in practice for IPSC. Zero fouling in the bore or the compensator of the STI TruBor race gun.

Those colors look really good. Can’t wait to try them out.


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[Ramjet-SS]

Wow this thread is treasure trove of information. So how does one gas check then use this coating. Or does everyone size after applying the coating. I have a couple of calibers that require sizing because they are autoloaders with tight chambers.

[Jags93]

I pop on the gas check after coating then size them. It’s no different than what your do for lubed lead.

Depending on the load/velocity you might not even need the gas check


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[HI-TEK]

Those colors look really good. Can’t wait to try them out.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Hello Jhopson
You have to contact Hi Performance Bullet Coatings in US to get supplies.

[Ramjet-SS]

I pop on the gas check after coating then size them. It’s no different than what your do for lubed lead.

Depending on the load/velocity you might not even need the gas check


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Excellent thank you ����

[kevin c]

Say, Joe,

Somewhere in this massive thread you mentioned a solvent that helps remove HiTek that has been deposited in bores after shooting under cured boolits, but for the life of me I can’t massage the search tool to dig it out. What was the name of the stuff, please?

[HI-TEK]

Say, Joe,

Somewhere in this massive thread you mentioned a solvent that helps remove HiTek that has been deposited in bores after shooting under cured boolits, but for the life of me I can’t massage the search tool to dig it out. What was the name of the stuff, please?

Hello Kevin C
The solvent that may be useful is N-Methyl Pyrrolidone. It must be used as is and not mixed with any thing else, Use a mop to apply to the bore. Dont spill it on surfaces that may be damaged by the solvent Removal ability of coating, will greatly depend on how much heat the coatings was exposed to. I know it works with partially heat cured coatings, but fully cured coatings may be difficult to remove. After wetting bore with this solvent, leave 24 hours, then see if it worked.
Is there Leading in the bore? Before I advise with possible alternative treatment, I need to know if Lead is also present in the bore. Please advise.

[kevin c]

Thanks, Joe!

Knock on wood, I haven’t had the problem myself, but was trying to respond on another thread where I suggested that the OP’s problem might be undercured coating left in the barrel.

[barsik]

@HI TEK
how to remove the mold release from the cavities so the mold release can be re applied? some cavities are showing a bit of flaking and these cavities are getting stickier. mold release works great right at "frost" temp btw.

[HI-TEK]

@HI TEK
how to remove the mold release from the cavities so the mold release can be re applied? some cavities are showing a bit of flaking and these cavities are getting stickier. mold release works great right at "frost" temp btw.

Hello barsik
Just curious about your request. Can you please advise how you use the Mold Release. There should be no Flaking taking place. The release is achieved with only a stain on Mould internal surfaces.
Mould can be simply washed out with Acetone or MEK solvent. Re-apply only very thin coat to get best release. Release coating mixture is about 5 grams of Powdered Release agent to 150 Mls Acetone. This mixture is simply painted onto surfaces. After the coat is dry, you can polish it with a soft rag to leave a mirror finish release coating. My guess is, that "flaking" may be due to using excessive amount of released agent as excess material is simply not bonded to the metal.. Please advise and give us more details.

[Ausglock]

never seen the release flake.

I clean molds with acetone. then re-apply the release agent and warm them on a hotplate.
Let cool and brush the cavites and mold faces with a soft tooth brush.

[kevin c]

Joe, are you polishing the application of the release agent before heating, or afterwards as Trevor does it?

[HI-TEK]

Joe, are you polishing the application of the release agent before heating, or afterwards as Trevor does it?

You can polish before using it to cast, as is, or, after you heat treat Moulds.. ( I would not recommend polishing it when Moulds are hot) We also make another No-Bonded version, and it works well after simply applying the powder with a small brush, and polishing off excess.
The bonded version simply hold ingredients onto Mould a little better and for longer. Again, the release does not depend on the thickness of what was applied. Using too much, simply wastes material, and you wont get better results.

[wlkjr]

Hey peeps, y'all still alive and kicking? I coated about 900 115gr this week in K-15 black. Did some in the old dark green two weeks ago. The green ones shoot really well but I have a slight stain come off them. They pass the smash test and wipe test and I cook them at 400 degrees or higher for a least 15 minutes, but still get that little stain. Coating won't wipe off though.

[HI-TEK]

Hey peeps, y'all still alive and kicking? I coated about 900 115gr this week in K-15 black. Did some in the old dark green two weeks ago. The green ones shoot really well but I have a slight stain come off them. They pass the smash test and wipe test and I cook them at 400 degrees or higher for a least 15 minutes, but still get that little stain. Coating won't wipe off though.

Thank you for question.
Can you please send photo of finished coated cast, and photo of what wipes off, or forms the stain you refer to. Thank you

[wlkjr]

Trying to attach pic. Unsuccessful

[wlkjr]

308696

[wlkjr]

That’s like pulling teeth

[Ausglock]

Hey peeps, y'all still alive and kicking? I coated about 900 115gr this week in K-15 black. Did some in the old dark green two weeks ago. The green ones shoot really well but I have a slight stain come off them. They pass the smash test and wipe test and I cook them at 400 degrees or higher for a least 15 minutes, but still get that little stain. Coating won't wipe off though.

Honestly.... If they shoot fine and don't foul the barrels, you are good to go.
When you say "slight stain" what is this stain on??
your fingers from handling them or on a cloth?

[Ausglock]

308696

OK... that's nothing... good to go.
That is probably just the excess pigment.
the actual coating is fine.

[wlkjr]

I poured acetone on a paper towel and rubbed a bullet across it as in the picture. When I size about 500 my fingers get a green stain on them b

[HI-TEK]

308696

OK had a look at the picture.
What this is suggesting to me that the coating is not 100% baked. Have you checked the product temperature when it is supposedly finished baking?
What was product temperature? Some wipe off is usually an indication of insufficient baking.
I am also wondering if your oven has some temperature control problems.
You seem to have the Dark Green V-2 product. When did you get this? I cannot remember when that colour was supplied to the US, but may be quite a while ago.

[wlkjr]

This some powder that I got years ago when I first started casting so I'm not sure exactly when I got it. I have an oven thermometer that reads 400 and I cook then at least 15 minutes. They shoot fine and there is no fouling in the barrel so I'm not too concerned.

[HI-TEK]

This some powder that I got years ago when I first started casting so I'm not sure exactly when I got it. I have an oven thermometer that reads 400 and I cook then at least 15 minutes. They shoot fine and there is no fouling in the barrel so I'm not too concerned.

OK, that explains a lot. I looked at records, and it seems that I sent some dark green V-2 to Donnie quite a while ago for supply to the US market.
It was used by a couple of casters, but some opted to use the Dark Green metallics, which was not as dark.
These dark green colours have caused some controversy as we have at least 3 shades of Dark Green, and products were purchased and supplied to US customers. Afterwards, who then complained that we changed colours, but in fact, wrong product was purchased and supplied to them, and, I only found out about complaints after the fact, so it became a difficult situation.
Please re-bake some longer, and see if the wipe off colour stops afterwards. The colour should go much darker with longer baking.
Thanks much

[Stephen Cohen]

I pop on the gas check after coating then size them. It’s no different than what your do for lubed lead.

Depending on the load/velocity you might not even need the gas check


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I agree with you about Gas checks not always needed, I drive the Lee 158 R/F naked at 2200fps in my 357 Maximum with outstanding accuracy and no leading, lubed cast in same loading do not shoot well at all, yet my 458 wm and a couple mated 45/70s do like gas checks for best accuracy. The interesting thing is that in all cases tested so fare groups are halved useing Hi-Tek. Regards Stephen

[ioon44]

OK, that explains a lot. I looked at records, and it seems that I sent some dark green V-2 to Donnie quite a while ago for supply to the US market.
It was used by a couple of casters, but some opted to use the Dark Green metallics, which was not as dark.
These dark green colours have caused some controversy as we have at least 3 shades of Dark Green, and products were purchased and supplied to US customers. Afterwards, who then complained that we changed colours, but in fact, wrong product was purchased and supplied to them, and, I only found out about complaints after the fact, so it became a difficult situation.
Please re-bake some longer, and see if the wipe off colour stops afterwards. The colour should go much darker with longer baking.
Thanks much

This is not a complaint but when using Kryptonite Green, I get color on my fingers when sizing and loading. I run my oven on the hot side 200 C to 210C and even if the green gets darker, I still get it on my fingers.

I use Candy Apple Red and Gold 1035 baked at the same temperature without any getting on my fingers.

I have not had any problems with the 3 colors in any of the guns I shoot, barrels are always clean.

All really good products keep up the good work and Happy New Year.

[wlkjr]

This is not a complaint but when using Kryptonite Green, I get color on my fingers when sizing and loading. I run my oven on the hot side 200 C to 210C and even if the green gets darker, I still get it on my fingers.

I use Candy Apple Red and Gold 1035 baked at the same temperature without any getting on my fingers.

I have not had any problems with the 3 colors in any of the guns I shoot, barrels are always clean.

All really good products keep up the good work and Happy New Year.

All the greens seem to give me the most trouble. K-15 Black is the one that works best for me.

[HI-TEK]

This is not a complaint but when using Kryptonite Green, I get color on my fingers when sizing and loading. I run my oven on the hot side 200 C to 210C and even if the green gets darker, I still get it on my fingers.

I use Candy Apple Red and Gold 1035 baked at the same temperature without any getting on my fingers.

I have not had any problems with the 3 colors in any of the guns I shoot, barrels are always clean.

All really good products keep up the good work and Happy New Year.


Thank you for heads up.
Just a quick couple of questions.... is solvent test removing any colour after last bake, and, is sizing and loading process is where there is removal of colour that ends up on fingers?
Please advise

[wlkjr]

Thank you for heads up.
Just a quick couple of questions.... is solvent test removing any colour after last bake, and, is sizing and loading process is where there is removal of colour that ends up on fingers?
Please advise

Nothing major, mostly when sizing several hundred at a time. Just a slight faint tint on the fingers. Rub test does not rub a bare spot. I will try to do more testing later when I cast more.

[HI-TEK]

Nothing major, mostly when sizing several hundred at a time. Just a slight faint tint on the fingers. Rub test does not rub a bare spot. I will try to do more testing later when I cast more.

OK, thank you for quick reply.
The reason for my silly questions are, that if no colour comes off with solvent test, I suspect that sizing process may be removing very fine blisters of baked coating. These very fine blisters may not be easily seen . Blisters are mainly caused by coating not adequately being dried before it is baked. When such coated cast goes into the oven, the moisture trapped in film becomes water vapor very quickly before coating has cured. During heat curing, these fine bubbles trapped in the baked film, can be simply shave off, and you are getting that dust during sizing process.
Looking forward to your update.

[ioon44]

Thank you for heads up.
Just a quick couple of questions.... is solvent test removing any colour after last bake, and, is sizing and loading process is where there is removal of colour that ends up on fingers?
Please advise


I just done the solvent test (30 seconds in Acetone) with two 140gr 9mm with Kryptonite Green and did not get any rub off, however these had already been sized and I did get color on my fingers when sizing these.

I properly go to extremes with my dying of the first coat (120deg F or more for 20 to 30 minutes) and never have any problems with the smash or wipe test.

A little bit of color on my fingers for me is not a problem, I always wash my hands after handling any reloading components.

[HI-TEK]

I just done the solvent test (30 seconds in Acetone) with two 140gr 9mm with Kryptonite Green and did not get any rub off, however these had already been sized and I did get color on my fingers when sizing these.

I properly go to extremes with my dying of the first coat (120deg F or more for 20 to 30 minutes) and never have any problems with the smash or wipe test.

A little bit of color on my fingers for me is not a problem, I always wash my hands after handling any reloading components.

Thank you for quick reply. Because you are not getting colour wipe off with solvent test, you have cured the coatings adequately.
It seems to confirm, that there may be some mechanical reason why you get some colour removal during sizing. I continue to suspect possibility of very fine bubbles, and other possibility is may be a sharp edge somewhere that may be removing any minute irregular surfaces. The "colour" being removed, I expect to be fully cured coating, and dust that is ending up on your hands. If the rest of the coating is intact, and it is working without causing any deposits in the bore, it should be fine.
Just a quick question and another thought, are you using a lubesizer? They have been known to cause shaving type problems, with internal lube groove edges.

[wlkjr]

The staining I get on my fingers is before dropping into the sizer. My sizer is a Lee. I use Aqualube 5000 sprayed into a plastic bag with about 300 bullets and rolled around. I then pour them out onto a wire tray to dry. It really doesn't cause me any problems. Next time I size some I will take a picture of my fingers after sizing.

[HI-TEK]

The staining I get on my fingers is before dropping into the sizer. My sizer is a Lee. I use Aqualube 5000 sprayed into a plastic bag with about 300 bullets and rolled around. I then pour them out onto a wire tray to dry. It really doesn't cause me any problems. Next time I size some I will take a picture of my fingers after sizing.

Thank you for details. Looking forward to pictures. This seems a real puzzle.
Aqualube should also separate coating from skin, and is a dry film lubricant release agent. I am at this stage stumped.
It is difficult to understand why you are getting transfer of any colour when there is no colour coming off with solvent wipe test.

Local commercial manufacturer here uses the Kryptonite producing many thousands, no problems like what you are finding at all.
You certainly have a curly one here. I hope that we can identify what is going on.

[ioon44]

Thank you for quick reply. Because you are not getting colour wipe off with solvent test, you have cured the coatings adequately.
It seems to confirm, that there may be some mechanical reason why you get some colour removal during sizing. I continue to suspect possibility of very fine bubbles, and other possibility is may be a sharp edge somewhere that may be removing any minute irregular surfaces. The "colour" being removed, I expect to be fully cured coating, and dust that is ending up on your hands. If the rest of the coating is intact, and it is working without causing any deposits in the bore, it should be fine.
Just a quick question and another thought, are you using a lubesizer? They have been known to cause shaving type problems, with internal lube groove edges.

I use an old Star sizer with the lube pump arm removed and short NOE sizer dies, I am only sizing down about .002" so I don't use any lube for sizing.

One thought, I use the 20/100 mix and use a heavy coat (some bullets stick together), would a 20/150 mix yield a different result?

[HI-TEK]

I use an old Star sizer with the lube pump arm removed and short NOE sizer dies, I am only sizing down about .002" so I don't use any lube for sizing.

One thought, I use the 20/100 mix and use a heavy coat (some bullets stick together), would a 20/150 mix yield a different result?

Now things are becoming more clear. This may be the reason for what is happening with rough finishes sticking of casts together, and fine crumbs coming onto your hands.
Let me go through step my step.
1. The lube sizer has internal edges. As coated cast goes through, it hydraulically deforms to adopt shape of sizing die. When it reaches lube area, there may be a springs back, (expands) into the lube groove open area and this phenomenon can cause shaving off the cured coating. If there is no shaving done at this area, that is OK. However, if you are getting dust coming off, then dust will build up in load areas.
2. 20gram to 100 ml may be too strong if you are applying too much of this mixture, which seem to be the case due to what you described.
Mixture usage is usually about 6mls of well mixed coating mix to about 250 casts. Shake coat quickly and dump to dry before they become dull and sticky sounding.
Usually it takes about 10-15 seconds of shake coating to get to where you need.
Try using two coats, (drying and baking between coats) using 20 grams to 150 mls Acetone mixture, and use 6mls of this mixture, to 250 casts.
Then dry well and bake. Compare results afterwards.
Two finished coats should end up about 1.5 to 1.8 thou thick. In reality, that is all that is required to separate bore and alloy.
Please let us know how these suggestions end up afterwards.

[ioon44]

Now things are becoming more clear. This may be the reason for what is happening with rough finishes sticking of casts together, and fine crumbs coming onto your hands.
Let me go through step my step.
1. The lube sizer has internal edges. As coated cast goes through, it hydraulically deforms to adopt shape of sizing die. When it reaches lube area, there may be a springs back, (expands) into the lube groove open area and this phenomenon can cause shaving off the cured coating. If there is no shaving done at this area, that is OK. However, if you are getting dust coming off, then dust will build up in load areas.
2. 20gram to 100 ml may be too strong if you are applying too much of this mixture, which seem to be the case due to what you described.
Mixture usage is usually about 6mls of well mixed coating mix to about 250 casts. Shake coat quickly and dump to dry before they become dull and sticky sounding.
Usually it takes about 10-15 seconds of shake coating to get to where you need.
Try using two coats, (drying and baking between coats) using 20 grams to 150 mls Acetone mixture, and use 6mls of this mixture, to 250 casts.
Then dry well and bake. Compare results afterwards.
Two finished coats should end up about 1.5 to 6mls of this mixture, to 250 casts. 6mls of this mixture, to 250 casts.. In reality, that is all that is required to separate bore and alloy.
Please let us know how these suggestions end up afterwards.

1. The NOE sizer dies I use don't have any internal edges, just smooth internal surfaces. I am sure there is some spring back when the bullet leaves the die. The color is on my fingers before the bullets go in the size die.

2. I do use two coats of the 20gram to 100 ml mix and try to stay close to the 6mls of mixture to 250 casts.
I know sometimes the bullets don't get dumped soon enough and will have some rough texture, so this could be part of the color rubbing off on my fingers.
As near as I can tell my coating is around 1.8 thou thick.

I just done 2,000 of the 9mm 140gr so I won't need to cast any more for several months.
The coatings perform great with all the guns I use, so a little color on my fingers is not an issue for me, just odd that the green does it when other colors don't.

[Ausglock]

I only use Kryptonite green and after running 30,000 through the Magma Sizemaster, there is a slight green tinge on the collator plate in the bullet feeder. The collator plate in the MA systems feeder is alloy and has sharp edges.
The home made sizer used a Mr. bullet feeder to supply bullets to the sizer. after a few 1000, the collator plat also has a slight green tinge to it.
But all bullets give Zero wipe off before and after sizing.

I feel it is excess pigment, so no big deal. I use the HITEK sizing lube for all sizing...

[Walstr]

I agree with you about Gas checks not always needed, I drive the Lee 158 R/F naked at 2200fps in my 357 Maximum with outstanding accuracy and no leading, lubed cast in same loading do not shoot well at all, yet my 458 wm and a couple mated 45/70s do like gas checks for best accuracy. The interesting thing is that in all cases tested so fare groups are halved useing Hi-Tek. Regards Stephen

Howdy S.C.
Interesting experience re: accuracy of PC vs Hi-Tek. I've not been successful trying PC'g, as the 'air quenched', alcohol cleaned boolits jes don't let powder to stick uniformly.

Is the application of Hi-Tek better in regards to uniform coating? I've read their instructions & it sounds very similar to PC'g?!? Thanks. Wally

[Ausglock]

Walstr.
Hitek came before PC.
PC used a bastardized application of the HiTEK process.

I find Hitek easy to apply and process.

I normally to runs of between 5000 to 30,000 bullets at a time.

HItek is also far cleaner to use than PC

[DDriller]

I find it a lot easier than PC. You don't have to worry about standing the bullets up. It is a very clean operation compared to PC plus you do not get an overly thick coat.

[wlkjr]

I've never tried powder coating but Hi-Tek is really easy. Side question: Does the non powdered version still exist? If so, does anyone use it?

[DDriller]

I've never tried powder coating but Hi-Tek is really easy. Side question: Does the non powdered version still exist? If so, does anyone use it?

I use both kinds. Both work extremely well, the powder version may be is a little easier to mix.

[barsik]

@ HI TEK how to remove the liquid form of your mold release from my mold blocks? I've tried immersing the blocks for weeks in acetone and then in paint stripper and now brake cleaner (non chlorinated) and nothing touches that mold release. the reason I want to remove it is that I have to run my pot hotter than I like (for whatever reason the bullets fall out nicely when the blocks are really hot but they are still "soft" when they drop and many bullets show dented bands and bases, plus the coating has flaked off in spots. running the blocks and pot a bit cooler makes the bullets stick in the cavities. how do I get that stuff off?

[Ausglock]

@ HI TEK how to remove the liquid form of your mold release from my mold blocks? I've tried immersing the blocks for weeks in acetone and then in paint stripper and now brake cleaner (non chlorinated) and nothing touches that mold release. the reason I want to remove it is that I have to run my pot hotter than I like (for whatever reason the bullets fall out nicely when the blocks are really hot but they are still "soft" when they drop and many bullets show dented bands and bases, plus the coating has flaked off in spots. running the blocks and pot a bit cooler makes the bullets stick in the cavities. how do I get that stuff off?

is it the white liquid release or the dark grey release?

[HI-TEK]

@ HI TEK how to remove the liquid form of your mold release from my mold blocks? I've tried immersing the blocks for weeks in acetone and then in paint stripper and now brake cleaner (non chlorinated) and nothing touches that mold release. the reason I want to remove it is that I have to run my pot hotter than I like (for whatever reason the bullets fall out nicely when the blocks are really hot but they are still "soft" when they drop and many bullets show dented bands and bases, plus the coating has flaked off in spots. running the blocks and pot a bit cooler makes the bullets stick in the cavities. how do I get that stuff off?

barsik
If you are using the Grey Mould release agent, this Mould release agent is not soluble, and nothing stick to it or wets it out, that is why you cant dissolve it. It is also heat stable to 800C or more.
If you were using Aqualube, as a release agent, this should not be used as a release agent and can be only removed with an abrasive polish type system. Aqualube is also not soluble in any cleaning system.

I am puzzled about you saying that you have "flaking that came off" . There should not be any flakes coming off surfaces, unless you applied far too much in the first place to have such a thick build up.

To concentrate on removal, you need to use an abrasive type cleaner. What you can initially try is Toothpaste, brushed with an old tooth brush to scrub/polish off surface release agent.

Toothpaste contains abrasive powder and detergent that may assist with polishing off the release agent.
You also can try using valve grinding polishing paste, (the finer grade) using as stiff brush or a Dremel with buffing wheel attached. You can try almost anything, that cleans or polishes metal, making sure it is a very fine polishing media. You can also try using car paint buffing/polishing paste compound with a small power tool that has a soft buffing wheel attached. You should be able to polish off surface residue.
In reference to dented bands and bases, you may be dropping the casts far too hot, and the alloy is soft, (Partly molten internally) and can be easily damaged by falling out of the Mould and hitting hard surfaces.
With running pot a bit cooler, should not affect release property of the Mold release agent. It is a mystery why you would not get release at normal temperature uses. It needs further exploration of what is actually happening. Generally, casting at cooler conditions, the alloy does not shrink as much with cooling, and if Moulds do not release those, the Mould needs to be examined.

[kevin c]

I myself am just a little unclear on reading the last few posts: are we talking about the bonding mold release, that comes as a gray powder usually is painted on with acetone as a carrier, originally designed for metal molds for glass, the one that bonds well to metal at around 900°F, much less so at lead alloy casting temps, but still well enough to last many, many cycles, the one I read should be applied sparingly but could be polished to remove the excess and which could also be removed more completely with acetone, even after casting? Are you saying that if the mold ever did get to 900°, the removal of the release agent takes much more aggressive action, or is that just for AquaLube that was mistakenly applied and heat set, or are we talking about something new?

Maybe I’m just confused in trying to put together what I gleaned from many scattered posts about release agents that have been put up in this and other threads over the past several months. If so, I’m sorry about running on; I’m trying to list the things I think apply to what I have, in hopes of confirming that it has the properties I think it does. )^;

PS Alan doesn’t list the new blues at HPBC; I hope he orders them…

[HI-TEK]

I myself am just a little unclear on reading the last few posts: are we talking about the bonding mold release, that comes as a gray powder usually is painted on with acetone as a carrier, originally designed for metal molds for glass, the one that bonds well to metal at around 900°F, much less so at lead alloy casting temps, but still well enough to last many, many cycles, the one I read should be applied sparingly but could be polished to remove the excess and which could also be removed more completely with acetone, even after casting? Are you saying that if the mold ever did get to 900°, the removal of the release agent takes much more aggressive action, or is that just for AquaLube was mistakenly applied and heat set, or are we talking about something new?

Maybe I’m just confused in trying to put together what I gleaned from many scattered posts about release agents that have been put up in this and other threads over the past several months. If so, I’m sorry. ��

Kevin C
I am hoping that we are all talking about the Grey Mould release agents. Yes, the bonding and non-bonding release agents are applied as very thin coats usually pre-mixed in a solvent, so very thin even coats can be applied, then, when dry, should be polished to remove excess before use. They both can be brushed onto surfaces as a dry powder also, and excess polished off before using the Moulds.
By polishing off excess you get a mirror finish transfer shape of your Moulds to cast alloy.
The bonded version, has "adhesion agents", that hold the release agents on the surface for much longer periods, as required for auto casters. The "adhesion agent" will start to cure at about 500C, which is well above cast alloy temperatures.
The Grey bonded version that is being supplied, is a modified version of our original Molten glass release agent. If the bonded version is subjected to excessive temperatures well above intended use in alloy casting, the bonding agent will set, and removal can be achieved with abrasive cleaning. If bonded version residue requires removal after use, it can be simply polished off with suitable polishing product like I mentioned in my previous blog.
What I gathered with information supplied by barsik is, that he had advised of "flaking" of the release agent.
This is suggesting to me, that there may have been an over application on surfaces, and excess was not removed after initial application.
It is also possible, that there was an overuse/application in the first instance and excess not removed by polishing.

Both the bonding and non-bonding release agents are recommended to be applied thinly, and polished before use, to produce a very even film and before using Moulds for casting.

Aqualube is a slightly milky material, and leaves a dry whitish to clear highly slippery dry film, and is water based lubricating product. Aqualube, is used for reducing sizing loads however can be used for lubricating most any two surfaces..
If Aqualube was used mistakenly for Mould release, at casting temperatures, it would melt on the Mould surface and become a continuous film. If this is what happened, this film also can only be removed with abrasive method, as both the non fused, and as is dry film of Aqualube, when dry, will not mix with anything else, and will not be soluble in any cleaner for easy removal.
Instruction on Aqualube use, specifically advises of such details.

[kevin c]

Thank you, Joe!

[HI-TEK]

Thank you, Joe!

Kevin C, you are welcome.
Sometimes, I do get a little carried away with writing too much.
It probably bore many people, but I like to make sure I reply to all questions adequately and thoroughly.
I hope I have clarified matters and, await reply from barsik to see how he went with removal suggestions.

[elmacgyver0]

What is the difference between HyteK and Powder Coat?

[HI-TEK]

What is the difference between HyteK and Powder Coat?

elmacgyver0, aside from both being powders, there are many differences, both in chemical make up and properties.
Just curious just how much detail are you seeking.
This is Hi-Tek heat resistance link https://www.youtube.com/shorts/icq4UAvXyNY
The video shows what happens with Hi-Tek even in molten alloy, does not burn, and protects coated alloy by reflecting heat from molten alloy.
From what was advised, when trying to recycle Powder coated alloy, the powder coating decomposes and produces strong nasty odor and catches fire.
Please advise what specifically you are seeking.

[Ausglock]

Hitek is actually designed to be a Bullet coating.
Powder coat is designed for Lawn furniture.

[HI-TEK]

@ HI TEK how to remove the liquid form of your mold release from my mold blocks? I've tried immersing the blocks for weeks in acetone and then in paint stripper and now brake cleaner (non chlorinated) and nothing touches that mold release. the reason I want to remove it is that I have to run my pot hotter than I like (for whatever reason the bullets fall out nicely when the blocks are really hot but they are still "soft" when they drop and many bullets show dented bands and bases, plus the coating has flaked off in spots. running the blocks and pot a bit cooler makes the bullets stick in the cavities. how do I get that stuff off?

barsik
How did you go with my suggestions to remove release agent?
Would appreciate your feed back.

[Michael J. Spangler]

Does anyone notice that Kryptonite green seems to take less time?

I’ve used it maybe twice now and it seems to cook up really well.

My temp control isn’t perfect so I might be a bit over temp. This was also taken under poor lighting at night so maybe not the best representation. 309888

[Ausglock]

KG is very good. it does darken with temp swings.
I can run 2 trays of 250 at once in my oven in 7 1/2 mins.
Colour is very uniform from bake to bake.
PID control keeps the over temp to 2deg C of set temp of 198 Deg C.
I also run K15 at the same settings.

[Michael J. Spangler]

Thanks Trevor.

I think I’m running about a 400 setpoint based off of my dial thermometer. That being said it can of course jump a little during heat cycle. So I’ll drop it down a bit and see how they look.

Thanks man!

[kweidner]

Decided to do a tutorial for coatings. I still have quite a bunch of the 3 part. Been working on a channel lately, bought some new powder form, and went to town. Maybe this can help some of you with questions.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D9x6XEXPjs0

[Ausglock]

Good work on the Video.
But..... Teaspoons??????? really???
Christ... that would do my head in.
Grams and Millilitres are far easier to calculate when mixing small amounts.
And a 10ml syringe for adding coating to the bullets is far easier and cleaner.

20 gms to 100mls acetone
40gms to 200mls acetone.
Small mix??? 5gms to 25mls acetone.
see how easy it is?

I mix 40gms to 200 mls acetone and store it in the fridge. It will store there for months with no issues.

[kweidner]

Lol for sure. You know us folks over the pond all still don't grasp as a nation the Grams and ML thing. We have easy access to teaspoons though :). Love the "new" powder form. I bet I still have 3 liters or so of the 3 part stuff from back in the day. I bought the powder just to have the ability to do that video. I am trying to put in video for what many of us for years have been talking about on these forums. I have introduced some newbies to casting lately and am trying to have an inclusive library for those starting out. Many of us don't have that crazy neighbor like me that casts, shoots, and hunts all the time.

[Pipian]

Has anyone mixed flour of Teflon into their Hi-Tec coating mix? The temperature that Teflon breaks down is about 500F. therefore it would go through a 350F bake alright.

[Stephen Cohen]

Hitek is actually designed to be a Bullet coating.
Powder coat is designed for Lawn furniture.

That said it all. regards Stephen

[Gremlin460]

Hitek is actually designed to be a Bullet coating.
Powder coat is designed for Lawn furniture.

How the heck do you get lawn furniture in your mold?
Asking for a friend....

[HI-TEK]

How the heck do you get lawn furniture in your mold?
Asking for a friend....

I dont know for sure, but my friend told me he purchased a bigger Mold, but was unsuccessful. He even tried to melt down the Aluminium frames, but that did not work.

[Ausglock]

My mate in town has a commercial powder coating business.
he asked if I wanted some powder to coat bullets with..
I laughed at him... Said HITEK is for bullets. Powerdercoat is for everything else.
Powdercoat is too messy... bloody powder floating around everywhere... one big mess. Bugger that!

[Thomas918]

https://i.ibb.co/QQ4ydFz/IMG-20230420-031326.jpg (https://ibb.co/g9xkVMH)

Finally got my brick red to come out nice. I used the standard recipe but splashed maybe 10ml of isopropyl alcohol over the 10lbs of bullets before I swirled. This extended the swirl time to well over a minute and helped making the color more glossy. This was 3 coats. The second coat was just as nice but a bullet here and there had a blemish so went ahead and added a third coat.

[Ausglock]

Looks great. 3 coats is overkill, but they very appealing to the eye..

[Petander]

Chiming in here after a winter hiatus:

https://i.postimg.cc/nh29M3Yx/IMG-20230503-153310-891-3.jpg

Pure lead 20 gauge RB:s with two coats of TMG Gold, then Black/clear PC on top. For cosmetic reasons!

Smashing was done inside a cotton cloth, you can see the cloth pattern on the surface.

[HI-TEK]

Chiming in here after a winter hiatus:

https://i.postimg.cc/nh29M3Yx/IMG-20230503-153310-891-3.jpg

Pure lead 20 gauge RB:s with two coats of TMG Gold, then Black/clear PC on top. For cosmetic reasons!

Smashing was done inside a cotton cloth, you can see the cloth pattern on the surface.


Thanks for your post. it has been a while since you have added a post.
They look very strange, but nice, maybe Alien eggs.....LOL

[Intel6]

I like the combo coat look. I did something similar with some .30 cal cast bullets. I coated them in "Texas Tea" black and was running out but had some 500 bronze so I did a final splash coat with that and got the same kind of look.

The first two bullets on the left are coated with the 500 bronze and the others are with the combo coat. The bullets are both from NOE moulds and are a 200 gr. and a 155 gr. loaded in .300 Blackout for my single shot pistol.

313840

[HI-TEK]

I like the combo coat look. I did something similar with some .30 cal cast bullets. I coated them in "Texas Tea" black and was running out but had some 500 bronze so I did a final splash coat with that and got the same kind of look.

The first two bullets on the left are coated with the 500 bronze and the others are with the combo coat. The bullets are both from NOE moulds and are a 200 gr. and a 155 gr. loaded in .300 Blackout for my single shot pistol.

313840


They look great, I also like that look. It goes to show, how you can get the Camo look using various Hi-Tek colors

[Intel6]

They look great, I also like that look. It goes to show, how you can get the Camo look using various Hi-Tek colors

I was quite happy with the results, never thought of doing this before.

The only time I ever did two colors was after coating some bullets with black I then hit them with kryptonite green. The black base made them look different because the silver lead wasn't shining through. With the black base you saw more of the metalic flake and it was more of a darker emerald green.

[HI-TEK]

I was quite happy with the results, never thought of doing this before.

The only time I ever did two colors was after coating some bullets with black I then hit them with kryptonite green. The black base made them look different because the silver lead wasn't shining through. With the black base you saw more of the metallic flake and it was more of a darker emerald green.

Intel6
If you coat over these with one coat of Gold 1035 it will really sparkle and lighten the dark green colour. A few people coat with K-15 black then coat with two very thin coats Gold 1035, the glitter is outstanding.

[AbitNutz]

Can you use softer bullets than you normally would for a given velocity than you normally would? I typically try to blend whatever I have to a about Lyman #2 or about 15 Brinnel. I'd like to use less linotype in the mix as it's getting harder to get.

[HI-TEK]

Can you use softer bullets than you normally would for a given velocity than you normally would? I typically try to blend whatever I have to a about Lyman #2 or about 15 Brinnel. I'd like to use less linotype in the mix as it's getting harder to get.


AbitNutz
a lot depends on speeds that you want to go with, and type of gun used.
A 15 Brinell hardnes is suitable for a lot of applications.
Please stipulate what guns you want to use the 15Bn alloy in, speeds you want to achieve, and it will be more easy to give you better answers.

[Ausglock]

I have used 8 to 10 BHN with 2 coats of HITEK for 230gn RN 45ACP bullets.
Also use 2 coats on 8 BHN alloy for 38 Special target loads.

[AbitNutz]

In one load I'll push a 73gr 30 caliber at about 1200 fps. This is a pistol bullet out of a 4-3/4" barrel.
On another load, I'll use a 30cal 84gr gas check bullet and push it to just over 1500 fps.

[dikman]

I haven't been here for quite a while as I haven't needed to cast and coat anything due to having built up a rather large supply.:-D I've decided that with Winter coming (so they say, you wouldn't know it from the weather :roll:) I should start casting again so caught up on a few posts here - which raises a question. My mold is a 4-gang brass unit for .38SP, coated with the grey bonded mold release. I decided to give it a good clean, polished the cavities using a Dremel buff and Brasso (so shiny and pretty :lol:), cleaned with brake cleaner, followed by acetone and then coated with the mold release.
So my question, based on what I read here - should I now polish the cavities with a clean, dry buffing wheel before use? I didn't do that last time.

[Ausglock]

G'day..
I wipe on the bonded with a brush. heat on a hotplate. Let cool and brush off excess with a soft toothbrush.
I got 2 new Lee 6 Cav 200gn .429 molds from Titan last week.
Wiped out with acetone on a rag, wiped on the bonded, heated for 10 mins and brushed off.
Pre-heated the molds while the pot was coming up to temp.
Very first bullets from both molds were perfect.
I cast 2500 with the 2 molds and all bullets had perfect fillout and dropped free every time.
Even lubing the sprue plate hinge bolt with beeswax didn't effect the bullets.

[dikman]

Thanks Trev, that's pretty much what I did the first time around, I just got a bit confused when someone mentioned polishing after coating.

[dikman]

Cast and coated over 750 .38 boolits, some Zombie Green and some Candy Red. They drop at around .367 and need to be resized to .362. The first few were hard going and needed a bit of effort to re-size, the Candy Red being the hardest! Then I remembered I'd mixed up some lube, Aqualube I think it was (?) with metho so gave some boolits a spray and swirled them in a container. Made all the difference, much easier to re-size.:-D

Been quite a while since I've needed to do any so forgot how I did it.:roll:

[m37]

I am running magma molds in autocasters are you also coating the mold faces and top
of the molds?
and what temp should you run the hot plate at
thanks



G'day..
I wipe on the bonded with a brush. heat on a hotplate. Let cool and brush off excess with a soft toothbrush.
I got 2 new Lee 6 Cav 200gn .429 molds from Titan last week.
Wiped out with acetone on a rag, wiped on the bonded, heated for 10 mins and brushed off.

[Ausglock]

Hotplate is set at 400Deg F.
We run our Autocaster with all our molds coated this way.

[HI-TEK]

Hotplate is set at 400Deg F.
We run our Autocaster with all our molds coated this way.

To update matters on the Hi-Tek Mould releases, if you paint on a very thin film of the mixture on all surfaces that are affected with Alloy Spatter, as long as it is dried well, (allow solvent to dry off) it can be used straight away. The heat from molten alloy will help with bonding of the very thin film, and the alloy product should release straight away.
There is some benefit of pre-heating to bond, but that heat setting/bonding can be also obtained, although occurring slower, whilst casting.
What is needed to be kept in mind is that the film on surfaces will release with and without heat curing after it is dry.

[Jhopson]

I have issues with leading in a compensator when using my Hitek-coated bullets. I normally use 2 coats, but I have tried 3 coats and still get some leading. No leading in the barrel, just in the compensator.
One of my commercial reloading customers has also had the same issue with his "open" class shooters that run compensators.

[Ausglock]

I have issues with leading in a compensator when using my Hitek-coated bullets. I normally use 2 coats, but I have tried 3 coats and still get some leading. No leading in the barrel, just in the compensator.
One of my commercial reloading customers has also had the same issue with his "open" class shooters that run compensators.

G'day. a lot of IPSC Open Div shooters run my bullets. I run them myself in STI Turbor and STI Grandmaster open guns in 38 Supercomp, both at major power factor. Bullets are 2 coats on 125gn Conicals sized to .357 and 125gn SWC also sized to .357. Powder is W540 or Australian made AP-100. No leading in bores or Comps.
I did have 1 customer say they got leading in their comp when the changed from AP-100 powder to Win Autocomp powder. But when they went to .357" dia from .356" dia the leading disappeared.

Local Gunsmith here (Works Precision Arms) is the Australian SV dealer, every SV open gun or STD gun he builds uses my 125gn SWC sized to .358"Dia. He supplies a box of our bullets to his specs when his customer collects the new gun. We sell a lot of bullets to his customers once they start shooting their new guns.
So May I suggest trying a few 100 sized larger?

Seems to work here.

[Jhopson]

G'day. a lot of IPSC Open Div shooters run my bullets. I run them myself in STI Turbor and STI Grandmaster open guns in 38 Supercomp, both at major power factor. Bullets are 2 coats on 125gn Conicals sized to .357 and 125gn SWC also sized to .357. Powder is W540 or Australian made AP-100. No leading in bores or Comps.
I did have 1 customer say they got leading in their comp when the changed from AP-100 powder to Win Autocomp powder. But when they went to .357" dia from .356" dia the leading disappeared.

Local Gunsmith here (Works Precision Arms) is the Australian SV dealer, every SV open gun or STD gun he builds uses my 125gn SWC sized to .358"Dia. He supplies a box of our bullets to his specs when his customer collects the new gun. We sell a lot of bullets to his customers once they start shooting their new guns.
So May I suggest trying a few 100 sized larger?

Seems to work here.

I will give it a try. Thanks for the help.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Avenger442]

[QUOTE=AbitNutz;5581166]Can you use softer bullets than you normally would for a given velocity than you normally would? I typically try to blend whatever I have to a about Lyman #2 or about 15 Brinnel. I'd like to use less linotype in the mix as it's getting harder to get.[/QUOTE

Saw your question and thought I would chime in. I usually shoot 12 BHN in .308 gas checked and two to three coats (depending on ho lazy I am at the time) with no leading. Speed is usually between 2500 to 2600 fps. I have shot magnum pistol bullets with two coats that were in th 11 BHN range.

I once ran a test with 14 BHN in 308 speed just under 2400 with one coat . But understand Hi Tek doesn’t recommend it. Oh and it didn’t lead the barrel.

My problem is I don’t have much experience wit other lubes so I don’t know their limits. I got lucky and found this coating about the time I started casting. Other than some testing with PC I’ve used nothing else.

Shoot 223, 308, 45-70, 45auto, 44mag, 357 mag and a few others. All coated with Hi Tek. And in almost 10 years of using and thousands of rounds have had only two very minor leading instances.

[Avenger442]

[QUOTE=AbitNutz;5581166]Can you use softer bullets than you normally would for a given velocity than you normally would? I typically try to blend whatever I have to a about Lyman #2 or about 15 Brinnel. I'd like to use less linotype in the mix as it's getting harder to get.[/QUOTE

Saw your question and thought I would chime in. I usually shoot 12 BHN in .308 gas checked and two to three coats (depending on ho lazy I am at the time) with no leading. Speed is usually between 2500 to 2600 fps. I have shot magnum pistol bullets with two coats that were in th 11 BHN range.

I once ran a test with 14 BHN in 308 speed just under 2400 with one coat . But understand Hi Tek doesn’t recommend it. Oh and it didn’t lead the barrel.

My problem is I don’t have much experience wit other lubes so I don’t know their limits. I got lucky and found this coating about the time I started casting. Other than some testing with PC I’ve used nothing else.

Shoot 223, 308, 45-70, 45auto, 44mag, 357 mag and a few others. All coated with Hi Tek. And in almost 10 years of using and thousands of rounds have had only two very minor leading instances.

By the way I only use L2 and Lino to tweak alloys for consistency in my 300 PRC.

[Avenger442]

Please excuse double post.

Hello to Joe and Trevor. Haven’t talked with you for a while.