simple Hi-Tek coating

[ioon44]

When I was in Australia in 1971 I found 27 last names in the Sydney phone book that matched my last name, always wondered how the name got there.

[Burnt Fingers]

19 crimes is actually the 19 crimes that would get a convict transported to the penal colony of Australia back in the 19th century.
England used Australia asa dumping ground for convicted felons.
the 19 crimes could be as little as stealing a slice of bread to as much as murder.

Before Australia was found they shipped those criminals to The Colonies. Some of my ancestors were sent here after being on the losing side of the English Civil War.

I'm also a Mayflower descendant, my family has been here for a LONG time.

[Petander]

My ex wife was doing a family tree and found her relatives were sent To Australia for stealing a loaf of bread and a watch, I told her it did not surprise me as I had met her family, she did not take that as a joke and suggested I should check my family background. Imagine her surprise when we found my relative was the prison guard on the very ship her relative was transported on. I can say I did get a few giggles in before the divorce. Regards Stephen

Absolutely hilarious! ( Insert a giant LOL icon here )

[Just The Tip]

Is there any real benefit to using MEK over acetone?

[kevin c]

Slower evaporation, which can give more time to get complete coverage. Helpful in hot, dry conditions where the standard mix may evaporate fast.

Another option is to dilute the coating mix more while adding more to the same number of boolits to be coated; twice the amount at half the strength for example. It'd give you the same amount of solid HiTek in the coating dried onto the casts, but much more time for swirling to get that coating all over each boolit.

[wlkjr]

Slower evaporation, which can give more time to get complete coverage. Helpful in hot, dry conditions where the standard mix may evaporate fast.

Another option is to dilute the coating mix more while adding more to the same number of boolits to be coated; twice the amount at half the strength for example. It'd give you the same amount of solid HiTek in the coating dried onto the casts, but much more time for swirling to get that coating all over each boolit.

Or just put a lid on the container and shake for about 20 seconds and then take the lid off and shake until the bullets stop moving. Gives a really good coat. I reckon I'm the only one who does this.

[ryanmattes]

I do something similar. I shake for about 30 seconds with the lid closed, then pop one side open and shake until they stop tumbling.

I'm experimenting with drilling increasingly larger holes in the lid to get the timing right.

It's not hot right now, but normally Texas is hot enough that acetone evaporates way to fast to tumble with the lid off. But if I can figure out the right sized hole to put in the lid to control evaporation, I should be able to make it much more repeatable year-round.

Sent from my Pixel 3a using Tapatalk

[kevin c]

Actually, I do most of the above: diluted, shaken covered with a perforated lid, then uncovered so I can see and hear the changes as the coating dries. I actually have to admit not trying MEK or denatured alcohol. I thought and asked about it, but decided I was introducing more variables.

Coating time definitely varies with the conditions. Doing it outdoors means changing weather and adjustments to suit. I just adjust with the acetone carrier.

[Tazza]

I'm from Brisbane, .au so we never get cold, we get hot and humid weather, most of the time. I have never had issues of drying too fast. If i'm after better coating, as in lube grooves, i add my 5ml of coating, then 2ml of pure acetone. It makes the hi-tek runnier so it goes everywhere before it starts to evaporate. NLG cast don't need the acetone, but lube grooved ones like the added acetone to make them prettier, i know it's needed, but i like them to look good.

I drop my coated projectiles when the coating is still a little wet, they do not stick together when i drop them out, but it also doesn't drop out runny coating, it's all on the cast.

It works for me, and gives a smooth coating.

MEK is slower to evaporate, it also smells so very bad, i have used it in a confined area, id it's not at all fun.

[wlkjr]

That's what's so great about this product. You don't have to be a rocket scientist to make it work. Each of us probably have a different technique and it still works great. It's like magic fairy dust.

[Burnt Fingers]

I do something similar. I shake for about 30 seconds with the lid closed, then pop one side open and shake until they stop tumbling.

I'm experimenting with drilling increasingly larger holes in the lid to get the timing right.

It's not hot right now, but normally Texas is hot enough that acetone evaporates way to fast to tumble with the lid off. But if I can figure out the right sized hole to put in the lid to control evaporation, I should be able to make it much more repeatable year-round.

Sent from my Pixel 3a using Tapatalk

Add some alcohol per the directions.

[ryanmattes]

Add some alcohol per the directions.I did, but it changes based on ambient temps and humidity, which changes from hour to hour here. It was in the 30's last night and by this afternoon it'll be in the low 70's, and this is supposed to be winter. So I asked myself why I'm changing up the mixture when all I'm trying to do is slow evaporation. I can do that directly by reducing exposure to air.

No mysterious mixture to get just right that can change from session to session, just get good coverage with it closed and then let it evaporate. I can mix up a batch and use it across seasons.

Sent from my Pixel 3a using Tapatalk

[dikman]

If it works for you that's all that matters.:drinks:

[Petander]

I like the alcohol diluted version.

My usual batch is 8 lbs, I use normall full strength coating solution but I swirl the bullets with 2 ml of metho (denatured alcohol) first,for a wet look. Then add 8 ml of solution as instructed, swirl normally. Gives more time and coats the grooves.

I used to pre mix the diluted versions in their own bottles but ended up with an uncontrollable amount of bottles... "Yeah,I'll remember what's in this one..." Sure.

[Stephen Cohen]

I like the alcohol diluted version.

My usual batch is 8 lbs, I use normall full strength coating solution but I swirl the bullets with 2 ml of metho (denatured alcohol) first,for a wet look. Then add 8 ml of solution as instructed, swirl normally. Gives more time and coats the grooves.

I used to pre mix the diluted versions in their own bottles but ended up with an uncontrollable amount of bottles... "Yeah,I'll remember what's in this one..." Sure.

I make a point of labeling everything these days, hell I cant remember what I had for breakfast so no hope of remembering what's in every bottle or box. Regards Stephen

[Avenger442]

wlkir
I do the covered tumble myself. Put the bullets in add the coating and cover. Then tumble for about 30 seconds and dump. It does do a good coat. More tumble time.

Been signed off since November. Had a lot of other stuff. What's been happening? Learned that Donnie had retired. And now it is Alan Esterly hpbulletcoatings@gmail.com. What else have I missed.

Joe
If you are not still out sick could you email me the MSDS on the coatings?

[Petander]

I apparently hit a certain speed / pressure / alloy limit now.

My 3" barreled S&W 500 shoots a TMG Gold coated 305 grain NOE at chronoed 1470 fps. 40 grns N110, a mild starting load. Nice and easy. No leading for years.

I was shooting the 500's 8" version today and got some leading at the last 2"-3" near the muzzle. It sure feels more powerful, Vihtavuori suggests 1870 fps for that load/barrel length.

Will a harder alloy help or just slow down? I like these milder loads, can shoot more ,there's a limit my bad rotator cuff wants to take. This is no children load from 8" anyway.

https://i.postimg.cc/nhc6GBdn/IMG-20210111-152845.jpg

[Avenger442]

Petander
Do you have a guess at what the pressure was with that load?
Also what is your BHN of the bullet?

[Petander]

Petander
Do you have a guess at what the pressure was with that load?
Also what is your BHN of the bullet?

Quick Load estimates 40 k psi , it's a Vihtavuori starting load for 300 grainers.

BHN is around 13 , it shoots totally clean from 3". Quite a lot of velocity gain from additional 5".

I have chronoed only the short barrel though. But it does feel much faster

[HI-TEK]

wlkir

Joe
If you are not still out sick could you email me the MSDS on the coatings?


Hello Avenger 442
I have requested Alan Esterly to supply you the latest MSDS,
hpbulletcoatings@gmail.com
You should have it by now.

With my being sick, so far all is well with what has been done by specialists.
I am OK and back to work, and am flat out with orders, and have no time for being sick.

[Tazza]

Hello Avenger 442
I have requested Alan Esterly to supply you the latest MSDS,
hpbulletcoatings@gmail.com
You should have it by now.

With my being sick, so far all is well with what has been done by specialists.
I am OK and back to work, and am flat out with orders, and have no time for being sick.

Less time on the forum, more time packing :)

Glad you're all well

[HI-TEK]

Less time on the forum, more time packing :)

Glad you're all well

Thanks Tazza,
More time to packing, you cannot imagine the workload... as a result of my absence for two months or more.

Aside from taking a few pills morning and night, all the doctors/specialists and I continue to be baffled why I went through this.
I have had no reoccurrence with this for about two months
None is quite certain what caused my situation of incontrollable pain, severe lower bowel inflammation, and all symptoms gone the next day.
This situation reoccurring about 7-10 day intervals, requiring hospitalization to control the pain.
No infections were found despite many many blood tests, and many different cultures performed.
All internal examinations came up clear.
Most recent special genetic tests also came up negative.
Missus recons I am weird.... may be she is right.......

[Tazza]

hehe my wife says i'm a weirdo all the time too, that and a butt head.

Her mum had colitis, but the doctors did confirm that it was the cause of her intestinal pain and associated "runs". Diet and a CPAP machine actually fixed her issues.

I had kidney stones a few months back, i never knew pain could be that bad, i feed bad for what people that get debilitating pain that they just can't get fixed and have to live on drugs to lower the pain, but it never actually fully goes away.

[Avenger442]

Thanks Tazza,
More time to packing, you cannot imagine the workload... as a result of my absence for two months or more.

Aside from taking a few pills morning and night, all the doctors/specialists and I continue to be baffled why I went through this.
I have had no reoccurrence with this for about two months
None is quite certain what caused my situation of incontrollable pain, severe lower bowel inflammation, and all symptoms gone the next day.
This situation reoccurring about 7-10 day intervals, requiring hospitalization to control the pain.
No infections were found despite many many blood tests, and many different cultures performed.
All internal examinations came up clear.
Most recent special genetic tests also came up negative.
Missus recons I am weird.... may be she is right.......

Wonderful to hear your back. I have had in the past irritable bowel colitis and can sympathize with the pain thing.
I got the info from Allen. Thanks to the both of you.
I think that wife thing and thinking we are weird is a standard condition. Frankly I consider my wife a little weird in some ways.

Coated 9 pounds of 9mm this week. Need to get back into the special project bullet with the .308 soon. Coating with the Bronze 500. But not really trying to keep the color right. So they are a little dark but look great to me.

[Marvin]

hey guys now that it's winter my normal way of drying the bullets is taking forever. so while thinking of ways to hurry it along i wondered if i could dry them by putting the on top of the oven like when i preheat them before cooking. will this work or will i dry them to fast and cause problems.

[pastera]

hey guys now that it's winter my normal way of drying the bullets is taking forever. so while thinking of ways to hurry it along i wondered if i could dry them by putting the on top of the oven like when i preheat them before cooking. will this work or will i dry them to fast and cause problems.

This is how I do it
Three trays - one in oven , one on top of oven and last on top of fan
Tray on fan is the one that came out of the oven - 2 minutes to cool off, 1 minute to recoat then back on the fan until the next tray is cured.

[HI-TEK]

This is how I do it
Three trays - one in oven , one on top of oven and last on top of fan
Tray on fan is the one that came out of the oven - 2 minutes to cool off, 1 minute to recoat then back on the fan until the next tray is cured.

That is a fairly good way of doing it. If you are doing several trays it can be like a production line, of coating, warm air drying and then baking.

If you are doing a small batch, it can be useful to pre-warm cast to about 30-35C before coating. The evaporating Acetone wont chill the alloy as much, and the warmth contained in alloy should dry things fairly quickly. Afterwards a bit of extra drying on top of oven should finish the drying.

The trick is don't rush with things, longer warm air drying wont hurt at all and you should get great bonding.

[Tazza]

Don't try and coat them too hot either, i had the idea of coating ones that were still a bit too hot from the oven and the sealed bottle i used to coat, puffed up when shaking. Not dangerous, just messy if it did pop from the acetone vapors. I thought i was smart, the hotter they go in, the faster they will dry, i guess that is true, but in this case it was not useful.

[HI-TEK]

Don't try and coat them too hot either, i had the idea of coating ones that were still a bit too hot from the oven and the sealed bottle i used to coat, puffed up when shaking. Not dangerous, just messy if it did pop from the acetone vapors. I thought i was smart, the hotter they go in, the faster they will dry, i guess that is true, but in this case it was not useful.

I think that the key word is "WARM" . I suggest pre warming alloy about 30-35C and that is more than adequate to have enough warmth contained in the alloy to increase drying rate.
As you found out, if you try to coat HOT alloy, Acetone will boil and create a lot of fumes quickly, it makes a mess on the coted surface, and bad results.

[Tazza]

Warm is the key, hot was not a wise move on my part. But hey, i tested it for science! and failed miserably...

I generally coat 15-20k at a time, so i take the trays out of the oven and dump on a bench to cool, as i don't have enough trays to let them cool in them. When cool enough, scooped up and coated and left to dry. Brisbane weather generally allows for drying year round fairly fast. If it's raining, i don't do anything just in case moisture gets in.

[Petander]

i wondered if i could dry them by putting the on top of the oven like when i preheat them before cooking.

?? Don't they dry when you preheat them anyway ??

[Marvin]

?? Don't they dry when you preheat them anyway ??

i work out of my basement where it's cool and dry during the summer and down right chilly in the winter i cook them in my unheated garage. i tend to work at them in big batch's after i coat them. i put a box fan to blow on them over nite, so i've been going on the ideal that they were dry before i heated up before cooking them. but that means it takes 2 or more days to cooking them. so i was wondering if i warmed them before the were dried all the way would it cause some unseen problems or would warming for 12 to 15 minutes finish the drying so i could get a little assembly line going and get more done in one day.

[Warhead]

For those that acid wash contaminated alloy how long do you leave it in the acid, and how do you wash them after? I know I read it I just cant find it. Lol

[ioon44]

i work out of my basement where it's cool and dry during the summer and down right chilly in the winter i cook them in my unheated garage. i tend to work at them in big batch's after i coat them. i put a box fan to blow on them over nite, so i've been going on the ideal that they were dry before i heated up before cooking them. but that means it takes 2 or more days to cooking them. so i was wondering if i warmed them before the were dried all the way would it cause some unseen problems or would warming for 12 to 15 minutes finish the drying so i could get a little assembly line going and get more done in one day.

If you get the coated bullets up to 120deg F for 30 min, then the coating is ready to bake.

[Avenger442]

i work out of my basement where it's cool and dry during the summer and down right chilly in the winter i cook them in my unheated garage. i tend to work at them in big batch's after i coat them. i put a box fan to blow on them over nite, so i've been going on the ideal that they were dry before i heated up before cooking them. but that means it takes 2 or more days to cooking them. so i was wondering if i warmed them before the were dried all the way would it cause some unseen problems or would warming for 12 to 15 minutes finish the drying so i could get a little assembly line going and get more done in one day.

This may help you. I've been coating in my basement for the last couple of weeks. I use a couple of fans to vent fumes out the door (wife doesn't like the smell). At times it might get down to 39F in the basement with the door open and the two fans blowing out while baking. I can close tumble the bullets dump them wet wait a couple of minutes for them to flash off most of the acetone put them on top of the oven for about 15 min and then bake. This has worked lately. Smash test is excellent. I do use a little thinner mix than instructions because I'm not careful measuring the acetone.

At times I have dried over night, no heat, just to make sure the first coat is dry. I rarely coat more than 10 pounds of bullets. So assembly line doesn't help me a lot. But if in a hurry I use the above. In the last week I've only coated about 18 pounds of bullets.

275842 This is Bronze 500 done with drying on the oven top.

[ryanmattes]

I do the same. I'll do 15-20 lbs at a time, so 3-4 trays. I'll rotate them through, so the first tray I tumble sits for 5-7 minutes in open air before I put it on top of the oven to warm. It sits on top of the oven for ~8-9 minutes, either while the oven is preheating or the previous set is baking, and then it goes in the oven.

I put my hand on them to check that they're warm for a few minutes before I put them in the oven. Remember, warm to the touch means 100-120F (130F seems to be about where they start to feel "hot" instead of warm), which seems to be enough to let the coating set.

When they come out they sit for ~8-9 minutes while I'm prepping other trays, which is cool enough to recoat. Rinse and repeat.

Pass the smash and acetone test with flying colors.

Sent from my Pixel 3a using Tapatalk

[kevin c]

^^^

I do much the same, though I tend to run many batches over long sessions. To avoid getting lost I often put on the first coating on a lot of boolits, drying over night. I separate them into 5 1/2# batches in stackable containers and then run them in sets of four: preheat, bake, cool, recoat, rebuke, cool and set aside, feeding in new batches as the prior sets complete the second bake.

Ausglock posted a similar method, but he is younger and has a better memory than me. At one time he was casting out of three rotating molds, making a huge pile of boolits and then coating them twic, all in the same day.

[wlkjr]

^^^

I do much the same, though I tend to run many batches over long sessions. To avoid getting lost I often put on the first coating on a lot of boolits, drying over night. I separate them into 5 1/2# batches in stackable containers and then run them in sets of four: preheat, bake, cool, recoat, rebuke, cool and set aside, feeding in new batches as the prior sets complete the second bake.
Does it make them angry when you rebuke them?

[kevin c]

Blasted auto correct. One of the few things in the world I can say I truly hate...

[wlkjr]

Blasted auto correct. One of the few things in the world I can say I truly hate...

I know exactly what you mean. I hate it too along with voice recognition.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[popper]

This situation reoccurring about 7-10 day intervals, requiring hospitalization to control the pain.
No infections were found despite many many blood tests, and many different cultures performed.
All internal examinations came up clear.
Most recent special genetic tests also came up negative.
Glad to hear you are better. Hopefully it stays away.
Went through that a while back, fun trip to ER. All the tests they could think of, like 14 blood tubes to be tested, stool samples (when I tried, in the house, she chased me out it smelled - and looked- so bad), echo, xray, CT etc. Nothing found until colonoscopy determined it was an (they think) Diverticulitis infection from too many peanuts - . I thought the pain was bad till I tried to pass a gall stone. That DID hurt. Another ER trip.

[ioon44]

I have had the Diverticulitis infection a couple of times, not fun, never was sure what caused it.

[Tazza]

Glad to hear you are better. Hopefully it stays away.
Went through that a while back, fun trip to ER. All the tests they could think of, like 14 blood tubes to be tested, stool samples (when I tried, in the house, she chased me out it smelled - and looked- so bad), echo, xray, CT etc. Nothing found until colonoscopy determined it was an (they think) Diverticulitis infection from too many peanuts - . I thought the pain was bad till I tried to pass a gall stone. That DID hurt. Another ER trip.

My wife had the gallstone issue, they ended up chopping it out, she was not amused with the pain it gave when it had an attack......

[OldBearHair]

have had the Diverticulitis infection a couple of times, not fun, never was sure what caused it.

Hey Popper, about those peanuts, I think the reddish hulls on the Spanish peanuts is what will do me in as far as diverticulitus. My Mother could eat no Iceberg lettuce or tomato peel. An older man in New Mexico told me back in the 70s that his people in Old Mexico used a plant called "Cat Claw" (Una de Gato -- Claws of the cat)_ for anything wrong in the intestinal tract. I had a bad case of it then and could barely step down from the side walk one step. Took "Cat Claw" pills one month and it cleared up. Now if I should get a stomach ache, Just take the pills two or three days and all is well. Pretty good results for fifty years past, huh. Just do some research on Cat Claw to see the benefits. I get mine at Wallmart.

[HI-TEK]

Hey Popper, about those peanuts, I think the reddish hulls on the Spanish peanuts is what will do me in as far as diverticulitus. My Mother could eat no Iceberg lettuce or tomato peel. An older man in New Mexico told me back in the 70s that his people in Old Mexico used a plant called "Cat Claw" (Una de Gato -- Claws of the cat)_ for anything wrong in the intestinal tract. I had a bad case of it then and could barely step down from the side walk one step. Took "Cat Claw" pills one month and it cleared up. Now if I should get a stomach ache, Just take the pills two or three days and all is well. Pretty good results for fifty years past, huh. Just do some research on Cat Claw to see the benefits. I get mine at Wallmart.

How are you doing OldBearHair
Thanks for the information on Cat Claw. Most interesting. You are lucky with being able to buy it easily in a retail store. Looks like a potential for such ailments.

[OldBearHair]

Hey Mr Hi-Tek, if I didn't have brain fog I would have called you by name. Anyway , the last time that I bought Cat Claw was on EBay.
They show several brands. Just search Cat Claw Capsules OldBearHair AKA Bill Barrick

[ryanmattes]

Ok, what am I doing wrong?

Made a half-batch of tru blu, erring on the side of slightly too much acetone rather than too little.

Oven has an thermometer inside measuring air temp, plus a remote temp sensor, crimped into a hole drilled into a bare bullet.

I'm cooking for 8 minutes by the timer, paying attention to when the probe hits 360F, with about 3.5 - 4 minutes of cook time after that.

They pass the smash test with flying colors, and he coating does it's job perfectly. But they're always dark. I want them to be bright, pretty blue!

I'm pretty sure it's down to one of the following:

1. Too much coating
2. Temp too high
3. Cooking too long

Or some combination of those.

I actually shortened the cook time on the below batch to 6 minutes for the second coat.

In the smash test pics, it's batch 1 coat 1, then batch 1 coat 2. The next two are the second batch.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210207/85dff3336c0eb7eaa928f77e42c56cb5.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210207/8767eed40b02e735965f5cc034a07dc7.jpg


https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210207/2f7fc2d8042372e75eccb012922fea08.jpg

[HI-TEK]

Ok, what am I doing wrong?

Made a half-batch of tru blu, erring on the side of slightly too much acetone rather than too little.

Oven has an thermometer inside measuring air temp, plus a remote temp sensor, crimped into a hole drilled into a bare bullet.

I'm cooking for 8 minutes by the timer, paying attention to when the probe hits 360F, with about 3.5 - 4 minutes of cook time after that.

They pass the smash test with flying colors, and he coating does it's job perfectly. But they're always dark. I want them to be bright, pretty blue!

I'm pretty sure it's down to one of the following:

1. Too much coating
2. Temp too high
3. Cooking too long

Or some combination of those.

I actually shortened the cook time on the below batch to 6 minutes for the second coat.

In the smash test pics, it's batch 1 coat 1, then batch 1 coat 2. The next two are the second batch.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210207/85dff3336c0eb7eaa928f77e42c56cb5.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210207/8767eed40b02e735965f5cc034a07dc7.jpg

Sent from my Pixel 3a using Tapatalk

My guess is 2 and 3, or combination.
1 has some contribution, as thick coats resist heat transfer into the alloy, and coating can darken if excessive heat is being pushed through thick films.
Finished coating thickness with 2 coats is normally about 1.5 thou.
All Hi-Tek coatings will darken with long baking times and will turn Black or darken outside desired colour.

[ryanmattes]

My guess is 2 and 3, or combination.
1 has some contribution, as thick coats resist heat transfer into the alloy, and coating can darken if excessive heat is being pushed through thick films.
Finished coating thickness with 2 coats is normally about 1.5 thou.
All Hi-Tek coatings will darken with long baking times and will turn Black or darken outside desired colour.

You've said something, somewhere in this thread, but I'll be damned if I can find it now.

It was something like the internal temp of the bullet needs to be at 360F for 4 minutes for the coating to cure properly.

I'm setting my oven so the internal temp gauge shows right at 375F, but I know the bullets are closer to or further from the heating elements, so that temp reading isn't reliable.

I just keep erring on the side of cooking too long instead of too short, since they shoot the same as long as I don't undercook them. Guess I'll start trying some variations.

Which is better, lower temp for longer, or higher temp for shorter?

Sent from my Pixel 3a using Tapatalk

[HI-TEK]

You've said something, somewhere in this thread, but I'll be damned if I can find it now.

It was something like the internal temp of the bullet needs to be at 360F for 4 minutes for the coating to cure properly.

I'm setting my oven so the internal temp gauge shows right at 375F, but I know the bullets are closer to or further from the heating elements, so that temp reading isn't reliable.

I just keep erring on the side of cooking too long instead of too short, since they shoot the same as long as I don't undercook them. Guess I'll start trying some variations.

Which is better, lower temp for longer, or higher temp for shorter?

Sent from my Pixel 3a using Tapatalk

I suggest you alter one thing at a time. That way you can decide if that alteration is OK or not.
Lower temperature for longer time is better. The coating slows down heat transfer. If heat is pushed too hard, the coating gets over heated, well before alloy is at correct temperature. If you lower set temperature by say 10C cook an extra 1 minute.
You need to standardize how much cast you put into the oven (Weight) and how long it takes to heat it up to correct cure temperatures. I am referring to load temperature not oven temperature.
If you under cook them, the solvent test will tell you as colour will start to come off.
If colour is coming off, increase cook time by 1 more minute. Re test. When no more colour comes off with solvent test, that is correct time in the oven, at set temperature and with the load you have in the oven.

[ryanmattes]

What is the target load temperature? The instructions say oven temp is about 195C (375F-395F), but not what temp I'm looking for from my bullet probe.

I usually do about 5lbs at a time, that's about what fills the oven. So that's a 280-ish 125gr 9mm, or only about 140-ish 255gr .45's. I also stand them up before I put them in. I know it's not necessary, but it makes me feel like they'll get more consistent heat, with similar airspace between them.

Now I just need to cast a ****load to do more testing. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210207/b674dd78f67c776d60d7eb2f2ce46ef8.jpg

Sent from my Pixel 3a using Tapatalk

[HI-TEK]

What is the target load temperature? The instructions say oven temp is about 195C (375F-395F), but not what temp I'm looking for from my bullet probe.

I usually do about 5lbs at a time, that's about what fills the oven. So that's a 280-ish 125gr 9mm, or only about 140-ish 255gr .45's. I also stand them up before I put them in. I know it's not necessary, but it makes me feel like they'll get more consistent heat, with similar airspace between them.

Now I just need to cast a ****load to do more testing. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210207/b674dd78f67c776d60d7eb2f2ce46ef8.jpg

Sent from my Pixel 3a using Tapatalk


The coated cast must get to 180C, and kept there or above for another 3 minutes. (I am talking Coated Cast temperatures)

If your oven is set say to 190C and is fan forced/circulated heat, with the load you place into the oven, the oven air temperature will drop.
Depending on your thermostat, it should cycle and turn on element to compensate heat loss due to load.
Cheaper small ovens have poor quality thermostats that can cycle plus or minus 50C from set temperatures.
If you are measuring oven air temperature, will not be same as load temperature.

[ryanmattes]

The coated cast must get to 180C, and kept there or above for another 3 minutes. (I am talking Coated Cast temperatures)

I just went and wrote that on the instructions, so I don't end up in here asking again. I'll do my next batch based on an oven temp of 190C, wait for the probe in the slug to hit 180C, and then start a timer for 3 minutes.

Thanks for your help.

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[HI-TEK]

I just went and wrote that on the instructions, so I don't end up in here asking again. I'll do my next batch based on an oven temp of 190C, wait for the probe in the slug to hit 180C, and then start a timer for 3 minutes.

Thanks for your help.

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Great plan. If your ovens temperature control is OK, and you don't get large swing over set temperature with thermostat, you should get good results.
Please report back afterwards. Very interested in your findings.

[Ausglock]

Colour looks about the same a I was getting with Tru Blu.
you can bring your oven temp down to 192deg C. and when the bullet with probe gets to 185Deg C, start your 3 min bake time.

Really... Honestly... your colour is what I expect.

[Tazza]

The coated cast must get to 180C, and kept there or above for another 3 minutes. (I am talking Coated Cast temperatures)

If your oven is set say to 190C and is fan forced/circulated heat, with the load you place into the oven, the oven air temperature will drop.
Depending on your thermostat, it should cycle and turn on element to compensate heat loss due to load.
Cheaper small ovens have poor quality thermostats that can cycle plus or minus 50C from set temperatures.
If you are measuring oven air temperature, will not be same as load temperature.



What colour was that one? looks great, live to give some of that a go to see if i can get it to come out the same and not make it go black :)

I need to order K15 and 122, should get some of that to test...

Well that quote didn't work as i hoped, it was the nice bright blue

[ryanmattes]

What colour was that one? looks great, live to give some of that a go to see if i can get it to come out the same and not make it go black :)

I need to order K15 and 122, should get some of that to test...

Well that quote didn't work as i hoped, it was the nice bright blue

I don't know the numbers, only black says K15 on it. The blue just says TRUBLU on the container.

If you mean this:
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210207/b674dd78f67c776d60d7eb2f2ce46ef8.jpg
Those haven't been baked yet. After baking they are the darker, shinier greenish-blue above. Hard to capture what they look like with a phone camera, they're not as dark as those pictures, but have more of a greenish tint to them.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210207/2f7fc2d8042372e75eccb012922fea08.jpg

[Petander]

I have used a big 2,5 kW wall oven for a year now. Or is it two? Zero worries.

Anyway. My first little "toaster oven" just broke yesterday,I have been using it for drying,preheating, even curing small amounts of PC bullets. No more heat yesterday, lights yes,fan yes.


I took a look at behind the toaster, I saw the badge "1200Watts". So that was my initial problem when I started Hi Tek, I baked dummy loads of uncoated bullets, measured temperatures in and out... and when I got the coatings and baked my first bullets,they looked good but failed and I got leading.

I posted some frustrated stuff here. My oven was right , checked inside out. Yes it HAD been.

See,that cheapo oven had two elements working in the beginning when I set it up and checked everything EXCEPT measured the wattage. The power dropped to half (I measured 600) later on. Pretty much when I git my first bullers in it broke. The oven seemed to work,it just lost power mysteriously. But I also thought it was 600 from the beginning...

People,please stay clear from these cheapos.

[Tazza]

I don't know the numbers, only black says K15 on it. The blue just says TRUBLU on the container.

If you mean this:
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210207/b674dd78f67c776d60d7eb2f2ce46ef8.jpg
Those haven't been baked yet. After baking they are the darker, shinier greenish-blue above. Hard to capture what they look like with a phone camera, they're not as dark as those pictures, but have more of a greenish tint to them.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210207/2f7fc2d8042372e75eccb012922fea08.jpg

Wow, it's a lot brighter than i thought it would be before baking. Thanks for letting me know it's trublu

[ryanmattes]

Wow, it's a lot brighter than i thought it would be before baking. Thanks for letting me know it's trubluThat's why I was surprised at how dark they came out. From the blue they are pre-bake I expected a lighter color. I assume I can get them lighter if I cook them lower and slower, I just tend to err on the side of overcooking since they shoot the same.

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[Tazza]

It does look like quite a big colour change after baking. I did some 122 red on the weekend, first coat goes on almost pink, after cooking it's brown, the additional 2 coats finish a nice shiny purple colour.

For the 122, i have not noticed any colour change between 190 and 200c bakes.

[ryanmattes]

Bucket O' blue .40
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210208/5dd9b5bb418cfd98faa5fb4b68a1337e.jpg

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[Tazza]

They look great, enjoy sending them down range!

[Avenger442]

Bucket O' blue .40


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I didn't see where you said what the wipe test did. Did any color come off on the wipe test?

[ryanmattes]

I didn't see where you said what the wipe test did. Did any color come off on the wipe test?Nope, wipe test was clean. Same bullets I smashed.

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[j_dude77]

Anyone have any luck shooting HiTek bullets in Glocks? I am getting leading the last 1/3 of the barrel towards the muzzle.

[Ausglock]

Anyone have any luck shooting HiTek bullets in Glocks? I am getting leading the last 1/3 of the barrel towards the muzzle.

Sure do.
G17, G34 in 9mm
G22 G35 in 40S&W
G31 in 357Sig
G21 in 45ACP
All shoot great.

What glock are you talking about? Store bought bullets or ones you have cast and coated yourself.
We need more info.

[Papercidal]

Anyone have any luck shooting HiTek bullets in Glocks? I am getting leading the last 1/3 of the barrel towards the muzzle.


My glocks always needed a .357 bullet for my coated cast bullets. Commercial casts i.e. bayou where fine with .356

[HI-TEK]

Anyone have any luck shooting HiTek bullets in Glocks? I am getting leading the last 1/3 of the barrel towards the muzzle.

As Ausglock said, please advise what you are using that is causing you the problems you describe.
We need further details.
Are you using a known alloy, or are you using recycled unknown composition alloy, with unknown hardness, and, what is your bore diameter, and what is your coated cast diameter (if you are using coated cast).?
If you are coating your own, these sort of details will certainly help with diagnosis.
Can you capture any shot coated cast in water so it can be examined.
Can you post picture of the coated alloy that you are loading?

[ioon44]

Anyone have any luck shooting HiTek bullets in Glocks? I am getting leading the last 1/3 of the barrel towards the muzzle.

Have you pulled any of your loaded bullets to see if your dies have damaged the coating and what the bullet diameter is after pulling?

[hunter74]

Use Hi-Tek coated boolits in my G19 ø357 with great result

Sent fra min YAL-L21 via Tapatalk

[wlkjr]

I've shot thousands of my own cast using Hi-Tek in a G26 Gen4 and G19 Gen3, at .356 and coated twice. Also several thousand .45ACP at .452 in my G21SF Gen3 and G30S Gen 3. I have never had any leading whatsoever. I do however have some slight dullness in the barrel of several of my G42's. Not really leading but a really dull look and can never get the barrel shiny. My lead is a combination of range scrap, monotype, and wheel weights. I've measured the hardness at 10-12 on an LBT tester.

[ryanmattes]

Great plan. If your ovens temperature control is OK, and you don't get large swing over set temperature with thermostat, you should get good results.
Please report back afterwards. Very interested in your findings.Just tried the green using the instructions you gave me above. They came out great! Much brighter color.

I'm also doing a much thinner first coat than I was before.

Super thin first coat, heat until the probe hits 180C, when it hits 180 I start a timer for 3 minutes and back the oven off a bit so they just hold that temp. Second coat a little bit heavier, same bake process. No color on the acetone test, no flaking or peeling on the smash test.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210222/1a81ea8bd4cb9888b54a9d8c480f9cbc.jpg

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[HI-TEK]

Just tried the green using the instructions you gave me above. They came out great! Much brighter color.

I'm also doing a much thinner first coat than I was before.

Super thin first coat, heat until the probe hits 180C, when it hits 180 I start a timer for 3 minutes and back the oven off a bit so they just hold that temp. Second coat a little bit heavier, same bake process. No color on the acetone test, no flaking or peeling on the smash test.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210222/1a81ea8bd4cb9888b54a9d8c480f9cbc.jpg

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Great Job. I hope that they now shoot as well as they look.
With temperature, it should really not matter if cast get to 190C.
As long as you don't keep it in the oven too long, it should work out great.
Now, you simply have to reproduce every thing and you will get consistent results and finishes.

You should try the Texas Tea colour.

[ryanmattes]

You should try the Texas Tea colour.

Is that gold and black? Someone should keep a list of recipes.



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[ioon44]

I mix Gold 1035 and Black 50/50 and call it Texas Tea and it does look like oil.

[ioon44]

What is the difference between Bronze 500 and Bronze 502?

[Ausglock]

What is the difference between Bronze 500 and Bronze 502?

Slightly different in colour...

[Stephen Cohen]

I have heard it mentioned here that Hi-Tek does not play well with Lee tumble lube cast bullets, A couple weeks back I was asked to coat some 32 cal tumble lube cast bullets for a friend and he informs me that his revolver normally shoots 1'' groups at 25mts and now with coating shoots half that. It would appear that the small caliber and low velocity may be the secret to his success. Just shows nothing is written in stone. Regards Stephen

[ioon44]

[QUOTE=Ausglock;5132405]Slightly different in colour...[/QUOT

OK, Thanks.

[wlkjr]

I have heard it mentioned here that Hi-Tek does not play well with Lee tumble lube cast bullets, A couple weeks back I was asked to coat some 32 cal tumble lube cast bullets for a friend and he informs me that his revolver normally shoots 1'' groups at 25mts and now with coating shoots half that. It would appear that the small caliber and low velocity may be the secret to his success. Just shows nothing is written in stone. Regards Stephen

Or maybe his shooting skills have deteriorated.

[ryanmattes]

Did my first batch of black tonight, test loads from a new .45 HP mold.

I'm not sure if I liked them better with only one coat, when it had a little of the silver of the lead showing through, or here below with the second coat, solid black. I'll have to experiment more and see.

Might have to mix up some Texas tea soon too.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210306/d62a7d3738dd8acf4c711919ff95b840.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210306/329e444be37dc322f42b5ed8cba71e17.jpg

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[HI-TEK]

[QUOTE=ryanmattes;5136600]Did my first batch of black tonight, test loads from a new .45 HP mold.

I'm not sure if I liked them better with only one coat, when it had a little of the silver of the lead showing through, or here below with the second coat, solid black. I'll have to experiment more and see.

Hello ryanmattes
Just to clarify did you use old black or the K-15 Black?
The products you have in the picture looked very much like the old standard Black.
The Old Black gets a Brownish look after second coat. The K-15 is intensely Black, no Brown tinge.

[ryanmattes]

Hello ryanmattes
Just to clarify did you use old black or the K-15 Black?
The products you have in the picture looked very much like the old standard Black.
The Old Black gets a Brownish look after second coat. The K-15 is intensely Black, no Brown tinge.

It's the K-15. That's just the light in the picture, they're very dark black and a little glossy. The picture of them in my hand is more what they look like.

They look great, but I also thought they looked great with just a single thin coat, when they had a silvery, shimmery look to them. I may try some more with only a single coat.

I've not had any browning problems at all since I started taking a bullet probe to 180C and keeping it there for 3 minutes. That works every time, never fails a smash test or acetone test, and keeps the colors from getting too dark.

Ryan

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[Michael J. Spangler]

Which one is brighter? Zombie Green of Kryptonite green?
Are they both metallic? Looking to get a new color to play with.
Thanks!

[HI-TEK]

Which one is brighter? Zombie Green of Kryptonite green?
Are they both metallic? Looking to get a new color to play with.
Thanks!

Michael
Probably the Kryptonite is brighter. The Zombie is a darker shade of Green
They are both metallic.

[Michael J. Spangler]

Michael
Probably the Kryptonite is brighter. The Zombie is a darker shade of Green
They are both metallic.
Thank you Joe! Kryptonite it is. Is it as effective at killing zombies as the Zombie Green? Or is it only effective against people native to Krypton?

[perminator]

Kryptonite is definately brighter zombie is kind of flat kryptonite on right https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210307/a020641bb0fed55e906d70309a87bfd3.jpg

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[Ausglock]

KG....use heaps of it....

[Intel6]

Yep, really like the KG!


Did up a big batch of a NOE 160 gr. bullet for plinking in the .40 S&W. The KG looks great on the smooth bullets.


279574


279575

[HI-TEK]

Yep, really like the KG!


Did up a big batch of a NOE 160 gr. bullet for plinking in the .40 S&W. The KG looks great on the smooth bullets.


279574


279575

Absolutely beautiful, great job, they are also environmentally Ok as they are green.....

[HI-TEK]

Kryptonite is definately brighter zombie is kind of flat kryptonite on right https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210307/a020641bb0fed55e906d70309a87bfd3.jpg

Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk


You have not seen the "Sick Zombie" colour.
It is an awful yellowish sickly coloured green. It is far worse that the one in your picture.

[Ausglock]

Currently coating some Lyman 12ga slugs and Lee 1oz key drive slugs..
Will post pictures when done.

[Tazza]

Currently coating some Lyman 12ga slugs and Lee 1oz key drive slugs..
Will post pictures when done.

I was gonna do that with a few i cast a while back, but the statement was met with WHY??? i think it was just cause my mad mate just wanted them faster so he could load them and play, maybe next time i do a batch i'll get to do them as well.

Interesting to see how they coat, being that the shape is not ideal for the shake method to get contact with everything.

[Ausglock]

First coat baked....looks good. full coverage of the Lyman "Diablo" type slug as well as the Lee Key drive.
Doing the second bake after dinner.

[Ausglock]

OK... here they are.
Loaded in Federal 00 buck cases.
27Gns ADI AP-70 ( Hogdon Universal ) to you lot in the northern Hemispere.
8 x .33 coated balls with Claybuster 1 1/8th oz wads.
cases have 7mm cut off the crimp.
BPI buffer powder used.
BPI overshot card.
4 Pin roll crimper.
https://i.imgur.com/UE0ei0I.jpg

Lyman "Diablo" style Slug 2 coats Kryptonite Green.
https://i.imgur.com/P58fsu2.jpg

Lee 1oz key drive slug with 2 coats KG.
https://i.imgur.com/4HfrLo0.jpg

Both slugs loaded in the Fed cases with 9mm cut off the crimp.
27gns AP-70
Claybuster 1 1/8th oz wads
4 pin roll crimper.
The Lee slug has 2 6mm filler foam wads in the shotcup under the slug.
Lyman has no filler wads.
https://i.imgur.com/POrKvQR.jpg

Buckets of each
https://i.imgur.com/fW2fQzi.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/UqI62CG.jpg

[Tazza]

They came out way better than i expected, now you need to get out and flick them down range to see how they go.

[Ausglock]

They came out way better than i expected, now you need to get out and flick them down range to see how they go.

Ohhh... they go great. Punched holes in a large termite nest at the range on Sunday.
Blew huge chunks out of it.
The 4 pin roll crimp head works 1000% better than the 1 pin BPI roll crimper.
Going to get a rifled barrel for the Adler B220 from cleavers to see how the slugs go.

[Tazza]

They sure hit hard, a mate was nailing a steel plate at 50m, it sure knew it was being flogged with lumps of fast moving lead.

Surely A rifled barrel has to make it even more accurate, hopefully they don't want a stupid amount for a barrel.

[Stephen Cohen]

A mate of mine has a rifled barrel for his shotgun and said it is very accurate. I gave heard that those Lee slugs are not always accurate. As a young lad I used to pull the shot out of Blue Star shells and pop in a large sinker and shot 5 gallon drums at 40 yards with the old single HR. Regards Stephen

[Jhopson]

I am sure it has been asked before, but...what is the recommendation for max fps for Hitek coated bullets?


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[HI-TEK]

I am sure it has been asked before, but...what is the recommendation for max fps for Hitek coated bullets?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

You are correct. On this site, many have posted various speeds.
If I recall correctly, the coating worked at 3500ft/sec with a hard alloy, and it was about 32-34 hardness, coated twice and with three coats, sized correctly to suit the bore.
You did not specify at what speeds you are wanting to achieve.
If coatings are done correctly, and pass all tests, failures can be due to using incorrect alloy, wrong hardness and incorrect sizing.
The coating is not a fix-all, but is a simple way to separate bore and alloy.
I am almost certain, that people who had tested coatings at various speeds can supply you their experience and information.

[dverna]

Ausglock,

Those SG projectiles look great.

I have heard the 7/8 oz Lee slug is more accurate than the 1 oz if you run into issues.

[dikman]

Those shotgun slugs look nasty!

Jhopson, some on here have experimented at length to push the speed envelope for the coating, as Joe said you will either need very hard alloy or gas checks.

[Gremlin460]

Happy Easter to one and all... Ciao!

[Tazza]

Happy Easter to one and all... Ciao!

I was only thinking about you yesterday to see how you were going and to rattle your cage.

Happy (WET) easter!

[Gremlin460]

I was only thinking about you yesterday to see how you were going and to rattle your cage.

Happy (WET) easter!

Awwww Tazza , you makin me feel all warm and fuzzy... I have been/am as busy as hell tying to reorganize the whole block of land, moving workshop from the bottom to the top. got 1 out of 2 40ft containers . Need to lay a slab for the vehicle hoist, a whole bunch of things. Trying to find 450 adi powder now that ADI announced they are stopping production for the for-see able future. That sucks big time. Generally been ass down bum up for the last year....

Dropped in to read all the Ï can't get it to work" posts, and see who was still kicking about. Still have 10K plus coated, and a whole pile of lead to sort and convert into cookies. When and if I ever get time..

Mike

[Ausglock]

G'day Grem.
ADI are greedy and selling everything they make to the US market. More $$$ for them.
I got the last AP-100 from suffolks in Lismore last week.

Lucky I have a large stash of AP-100, AP-50, AP-70, Autocomp and Win 760.
And 70.000 primers..

[Tazza]

We are last on the list for powder... How much 450 are you looking for? i MAY be able to hook you up....

Talking about a container, i need to get my paws on one to store some of my rubbish :(

Good to hear you have a good supply of powder and primers, primers are going to be an issue int eh coming years i hear, fun times a head.

When you have used up all that lead to make little round things, i'll send you more to make more of them for me :)

[Jatz357]

Hi all, been away from the forum for a while. Been busy making projectiles and machines.

Completed quite a few colour baking tests the last few days with my infrared oven using Hi-Tek Blue and Dark Green.

Previous tests I had completed with Candy Apple and a custom made bronze showed very little colour change or darkening with elevated temperatures and bake times.

I have now completed far more in depth tests with the Blue & Dark Green, so I have a better understanding how infrared affects Hi-Tek compared to convection ovens.

Overview of how my infrared oven works. It has two heat zones (stages) 1st stage I have the temp set very high at around 250 C. Measurements I have completed show the projectiles ramp up heat very quickly to around 190 C by the time they exit the 1st stage. Stage two is normally set to around 218 C and the projectiles have to travel twice the distance as stage 1. Stage 2 holds the temp for around 3 minutes.

I run the oven at these high temperatures because I was not having any colour change or burn issues. Coating cured well with short bake times and no adhesion problems. Normal oven transit time is around 5:30 minutes whilst the projectiles are under infrared rays for approximately 4:30. Very fast heat and cure time and high volume throughput.

What was discovered? I found that the blue and dark green did not change colour significantly when baked at higher temperatures. (one extreme test did darken the final colour. Some projectiles after the 2nd coat and bake were put straight back into the oven and were 120C+ when they went back in, these would have reached over 235C+ and have been held above 220C+ for the whole 5:35 of the bake cycle)

Tests were completed using my normal higher temperature fast heat and cure cycle and then reduced the temp and adjusted oven transit time so the coating was just reaching cure.

One test of the blue I confirmed the temperature did not exceed 195C. Both 1st & 2nd oven temp stages were reduced to 198C & 192C respectively. Temperature of the test was confirmed using a thermocouple inside a projectile. This test took 5:40 for the projectiles to reach 180C and then during the last 3 minutes reached a maximum of 195C (total bake time 8:40). The coating was only just cured, there was some colour rub off but the coating stayed attached. The final colour was ever so slightly lighter than the higher temp test.

See the image for colour comparison and an explanation at the bottom.

https://www.eminenceprojectiles.com.au/images/external/hi-tek_colour_test_2021-04.jpg

[Tazza]

That is some awesome work there, i bet that took you some serious time to do, but it sure will increase production with a conveyor baking setup.

Love how well the blue came out, i really need to get me some of that in my next order...... I have been chewing through the powder recently with extra time from COVID, so an order can't be far away.

How did you ensure the load for the oven was the same very time? dud you just make sure there was just one layer across it? Was it a wire conveyor setup like i assume a pizza shop has, so you just pour out and it goes along being cooked, or did you put them on a tray and the tray moves?

I have gotten to know my oven settings, 200c for 15 minutes gives me 100% curing every time with two trays each with about 1,000 projectiles each. My measuring device is just a plastic bottle that i use each time i do a load, so it gets the same volume every time (yes, there will be variation for each projectile shape but it works for me).

I'm going to be doing some significantly heavier ones in the net few months, so that will need some fiddling for bake times, but a simple wipe test will give me that data.

[Jatz357]

That is some awesome work there, i bet that took you some serious time to do, but it sure will increase production with a conveyor baking setup.

Love how well the blue came out, i really need to get me some of that in my next order...... I have been chewing through the powder recently with extra time from COVID, so an order can't be far away.

How did you ensure the load for the oven was the same very time? dud you just make sure there was just one layer across it? Was it a wire conveyor setup like i assume a pizza shop has, so you just pour out and it goes along being cooked, or did you put them on a tray and the tray moves?

I have gotten to know my oven settings, 200c for 15 minutes gives me 100% curing every time with two trays each with about 1,000 projectiles each. My measuring device is just a plastic bottle that i use each time i do a load, so it gets the same volume every time (yes, there will be variation for each projectile shape but it works for me).

I'm going to be doing some significantly heavier ones in the net few months, so that will need some fiddling for bake times, but a simple wipe test will give me that data.

Thanks Tazza, yes that took quite a while.

The oven works via conveyor belt that is about 4mm open weave teflon coated fibreglass, I have two guide rails on the entry side to the oven and just pack as much in that space as I can. The projectiles are placed on top of the belt, no trays to worry about. They just travel through the oven and drop off at the other end. Bake times can be varied by adjusting belt speed.

From testing I have done with 100 to 158 grain projectiles I do not need to adjust bake time much at all. The infrared with PID control just ramps in more heat when required. 44 & 45 heavier projectiles might need some adjustments but I have not baked any of those sizes yet.

Just like you, I have gotten to understand how my oven works and run it the way that works best for me and the results I want.

Here's a boring video showing how the prototype works.


https://youtu.be/uzh9IWl1b3U

[Tazza]

That is awesome, can't get easier than that, load on the belt, and cooked lead drops out the other end. You sure can cook a lot in no time with that.

I had in my head that you'd need something quite fancy to handle the heat, but in reality, it should never get stupidly hot as the cure temperature is around 200c mark.

[Jatz357]

That is awesome, can't get easier than that, load on the belt, and cooked lead drops out the other end. You sure can cook a lot in no time with that.

I had in my head that you'd need something quite fancy to handle the heat, but in reality, it should never get stupidly hot as the cure temperature is around 200c mark.

Probably the best thing is repeatability. You don't have to worry about forgetting to remove trays and over cooking the coating.

When the first few start to exit the oven I just have a look and do a quick solvent test and adjust if required and then keep feeding the beast. The one in the video will run at around 150kg an hour. Next project may be an auto feeder so you spend less time loading the projectiles. Working up a sweat I can coat and bake 500kg twice, in one day.

[HI-TEK]

Thanks Tazza, yes that took quite a while.

The oven works via conveyor belt that is about 4mm open weave teflon coated fibreglass, I have two guide rails on the entry side to the oven and just pack as much in that space as I can. The projectiles are placed on top of the belt, no trays to worry about. They just travel through the oven and drop off at the other end. Bake times can be varied by adjusting belt speed.

From testing I have done with 100 to 158 grain projectiles I do not need to adjust bake time much at all. The infrared with PID control just ramps in more heat when required. 44 & 45 heavier projectiles might need some adjustments but I have not baked any of those sizes yet.

Just like you, I have gotten to understand how my oven works and run it the way that works best for me and the results I want.

Here's a boring video showing how the prototype works.


https://youtu.be/uzh9IWl1b3U

jatz357
Thanks for the informative video an details.
It would be useful to get an idea of throughput rates.
Have you got any production throughput details? please post.
This method of baking certainly seem to eliminate trays and handling and seems produce a lot per time with very even colours.

[Tazza]

Probably the best thing is repeatability. You don't have to worry about forgetting to remove trays and over cooking the coating.

When the first few start to exit the oven I just have a look and do a quick solvent test and adjust if required and then keep feeding the beast. The one in the video will run at around 150kg an hour. Next project may be an auto feeder so you spend less time loading the projectiles. Working up a sweat I can coat and bake 500kg twice, in one day.

Baking 500kg twice a day would just make me sore :) Some sort of shaker table hopper system to drop on the conveyor in theory wouldn't be horrible to make, but then working out a metering system is the more complex part.

150kg per hour is some serious output, the only possible addition that may help others is an option for a longer conveyor with fans to cool them to allow them to be coated faster. I use old 4 litre paint tins to drop mine in, when sitting in a can like that, it takes them a few hours to cool enough, if i tip them out on a table, they are cool enough to re-coat in about 20 minutes without using fans.

[Jatz357]

jatz357
Thanks for the informative video an details.
It would be useful to get an idea of throughput rates.
Have you got any production throughput details? please post.
This method of baking certainly seem to eliminate trays and handling and seems produce a lot per time with very even colours.

HI_TEK
Throughput rates for this oven is 150kg an hour (4600 watts) two separate heat stages can be individually controlled. Depending on run throughput, ambient temperature of environment and projectiles the oven runs at about 55% - 60% duty cycle about 17 - 18.5KW power usage per ton baked.

You can easily bake different styles and colours at the same time, just leave a small gap between the different types and just swap the catch tray at the appropriate time. The oven now has a drop chute at the end and it feeds the projectiles under the oven. When a change in type or colour comes through I put a block in the chute, change over the catch tray and remove the block. That stops projectiles dropping on the floor if you're too slow.

I have some video of the Blue & Dark Green baking and once I edit and upload it I'll share that too.

[Jatz357]

Baking 500kg twice a day would just make me sore :) Some sort of shaker table hopper system to drop on the conveyor in theory wouldn't be horrible to make, but then working out a metering system is the more complex part.

150kg per hour is some serious output, the only possible addition that may help others is an option for a longer conveyor with fans to cool them to allow them to be coated faster. I use old 4 litre paint tins to drop mine in, when sitting in a can like that, it takes them a few hours to cool enough, if i tip them out on a table, they are cool enough to re-coat in about 20 minutes without using fans.

Makes me sore too don't worry but it keeps me fit.

If I need to recoat quickly I'll put them in front of a fan to cool then recoat and bake again.

I have a few ideas on how to auto load the conveyor but it really doesn't take that much time to do it manually.

[ioon44]

Impressive, How do you know the 1st is dry enough to bake? To me getting the 1st coat dry is the most important step.

[rfd]

Until a few weeks ago I never did any bullet coatings. Investigations pointed me to the simplest method, powder coating. That's the route I took. It works amazingly well for me, right from the get-go. One shake, one bake, done. I see no need to mess with Hi-Tek when PC works so damn well.

[Jatz357]

Impressive, How do you know the 1st is dry enough to bake? To me getting the 1st coat dry is the most important step.

Great question ioon44, the 1st coat in the most important.

This is a long winded response and is based on many tests and years of experience.

Grab a coffee.

Normally I just pre-heat the projectiles in a drying rack that is enclosed and has fans and heating elements. Only use this during winter and normally 10 minutes is plenty but mostly way longer than that because the drying rack will hold up to about 480kgs. I coat quite a few before I start baking.

I did some tests of short drying times when I was testing the colours.

My shed temp was reading 20.3 C and 43% humidity when I started but the temp was increasing and humidity was dropping.

1st coat the start temp of the bare projectiles read 20.9 C (interesting since shed temp was lower) projectiles had been sitting in a bucket near the roller door that had the morning sun on it so that may explain the higher reading or because of the infrared thermometer was reading a reflected surface.

Directly after the first coat the projectile temp was 15.1 C and they were left on a tray on a bench for 20 minutes.
After 20 minutes they were put into the oven and their temp was 20.9 C exactly what they started at. There was some heat coming off the roller door too.

After 1st bake the smash and solvent tests passed with no issues.

2nd coat the projectiles were 30.6 C still cooling after the first bake. Directly after 2nd coat they were 20.5 C and were left on the same tray for 15 minutes.
After 15 mins they were put back into the oven and their temp read 23.3 C. Shed was warming up and some extra heat from the roller door.

After 2nd bake the smash and solvent test passed without any problems.

I also did another test after 1st bake. Projectiles were 32.6 C before 2nd coat and 16.4 directly after the 2nd coat. I added metho to projectiles and then the coating so I would get a far longer tumble time and this chilled the projectiles more. These were left on the same tray on the bench and put into the oven after 9 minutes and their temp was 21.5 C. After the bake cycle they passed all tests.

During these tests there was no heat or fans used on the projectiles during the dry time. After about 5 to 7 minutes I spread out the pile to allow the touching surfaces to get some air as the touching locations remained wet for a longer time. After the drying time for each batch just before baking no coating would transfer onto my gloves, this showed that all surfaces were at least dry to the touch.

It should be noted that the weather and temperature conditions were very good for fast drying conditions when these tests were conducted.

The coating itself dries very quickly if it is exposed to air and, only the touching surfaces could transfer some coating onto your gloves quite some time later (10 - 20 minutes or more again depending on conditions and amount of coating applied) when the projectiles are moved around. Some damp spots will not cause coating adhesion problems.

I have found that once the coating is dry to touch or press, it can be baked. The issue is with moisture that is trapped between the coating and lead. Acetone is hydroscopic and also has a small percentage of water in it to start with. When the acetone evaporates it chills the alloy and attracts moisture. In extreme cases the coating may appear to go foggy, white or blushing, this is the attracted moisture and in the spay painting industry, we called it blooming.

Nice warm days with low humidity will mean less moisture. If it is cool and or high humidity the chilled alloy will attract a lot of moisture. In the case of cool temps and high moisture the coating will dry as usual maybe require slightly longer dry time however, there is trapped moisture and when the coating is baked, the surface of the coating may skin over and trap the moisture. The moisture will turn to steam and push the coating out of the porous surface effectively breaking the coating bond to the alloy and hench a failed smash test.

With an infrared oven from previous testing, the projectiles heat from inside out and may slow the skinning process of the coating which allows more time for any moisture to escape. This appears to be the reason I can bake projectiles after a short drying time.

Having said all that I am yet to conduct tests when the ambient temperature is cold with high humidity / dew point. I've always pre-warmed the projectiles in winter so I didn't have to worry about moisture related failures.

If you are concerned whether your first coat is dry enough (moisture evaporated) you could simply warm the projectiles. A fan heater or a hair dryer is all you need. As long as the alloy temp is warmer than the ambient temp you should get the moisture evaporated. You only need a few minutes after the coating is dry to touch.

[ioon44]

Thanks for the reply, I have been using Hi-Tek for 6 or 7 years now using a kitchen convection oven.
I use a drying rack that is enclosed and has fans and heating elements also and get the coated bullets up to 50 C to 55 C for 20 min, this insures the coating is dry with no coating failure. My shop is unheated so a lot of my coating is done in 5 C to 10 C weather.
Really interested in your infrared system, looks to be a lot more efficient than a convection oven.

[Tazza]

Excellent reply with lots of good data to back it up.

I found that hi-tek does dry very fast when dissolved in acetone, after 5-10 minutes of letting them dry out, i use the back of a screwdriver to break them up and hopefully move any touching points to allow them to dry. Within 20 or so minutes, they are good to be re-baked.

I'm in an area that usually gets high humidity, summer sees 90% or more in the most hideous times of the year with temperatures in the low 40c range, i try to avoid coating when it's that humid and hot though.

[rfd]

Is Hi-Tek better than PC or ... ?

[Tazza]

I think PC is good for small batches and they look great with their smooth glossy coat and almost limitless colour choices, Hi-tek is awesome for large batches for speed of application, yet does require multiple coats but for me, that's not an issue as it's so fast to do. I can coat tens of thousands of them in a day.

I have never used PC before, and wonder how it will perform with faster speeds as hi-tek is a polymer that sets when baked, PC i thought just gets melted to create a nice even finish. Gun powder creates heat, will it melt off? it obviously works, each to their own really. Like a glock person vs a 1911, do the same job, just different.

[Jatz357]

Is Hi-Tek better than PC or ... ?

Hi rfd

I have very little experience with PC.

From what I have seen the PC will adhere to lead well and appears to stick after a smash test.

PC is designed to coat and protect objects and was not developed as a lead projectile coating. PC will give a thicker coat but may be uneven and can stick together when baked (based on some photos I have seen) One concern is PC may contain silicates, silica dust is dangerous when inhaled and is abrasive. Different PC bands and colours may have different amount of silicate. I would be concerned about high volume use and possible barrel damage. But then again it appears to be widely used.

Hi-Tek is made specifically for projectile coating and has been in use for maybe 30 years or there abouts. Designed to provide a heat resistant barrier between lead and the barrel, designed with lubricating properties and is non abrasive. Deigned to be a thin coating so the lead projectile is not affected by the coating in an adverse way.

Hi-Tek is very easy with high volume coating whilst PC may be difficult to process large batches. PC is probably more suited to the low volume user.

Hi-Tek is really very easy to use if you follow the instructions. Really, it is that simple.

If PC works for you and you get the results you are after then maybe, PC is for you. However if you think there may be an alternative, then give Hi-Tek a go.

[rfd]

PC works Extremely well ... for me. I can even size a bullet, shake 'n' bake, and minutes later resize ... all with minimal effort and time. That polymer coating is well bonded to the tin:lead alloy as proven by a smash test I do for every bake. Once I have a batch of bullets cast, say a few hundred, the time for them to be load ready is less than an hour, sometimes within 40 minutes. I'm not saying PC is better than sliced bread or Hi-Tec, it's just that ... dang ... it works so damn well, for such little effort and expense. I've never done Hi-Tec, that's a huge given, and maybe its forte is massive quantity, and if so, then for sure that would make smart sense. But for the batches of a 100 - 200 that I require, PC is just a no-brainer.

[Ausglock]

Why size before PCing and again after???

PC is too messy for me. Bloody powder everywhere. All over the place...
HITEK is easy and quick. Easy cleanup and is actually made for coating lead bullets.
PC is for lawn furniture.

[rfd]

Why size before PCing and again after???

PC is too messy for me. Bloody powder everywhere. All over the place...
HITEK is easy and quick. Easy cleanup and is actually made for coating lead bullets.
PC is for lawn furniture.

To each their own, mate!

Cheers! :drinks:

[Tazza]

To each their own, mate!

Cheers! :drinks:

So very true, if it works for you, stick with it. I'm not going to bag anything that has been proven to work.

[Jatz357]

This is the video I mentioned yesterday that I was going to post.

WARNING: only people with way too much spare time should watch this........

Like watching paint dry?

This is a view of how our infrared oven cures Hi-Tek Supercoat, high performance bullet coating.

Projectiles are spread out on the conveyor belt and the oven does the rest. Approximately 5:30 minutes transit time through the oven and the coating is cured.

This is just a small test of 4.5 kg each of Hi-Tek Dark Green & Blue, first coat.


https://youtu.be/HsFJ7JS0bsI

[ioon44]

Is Hi-Tek better than PC or ... ?


I have used Hi-Tek and PC and have stayed with Hi-Tek.

[Tazza]

This is the video I mentioned yesterday that I was going to post.

WARNING: only people with way too much spare time should watch this........

Like watching paint dry?

This is a view of how our infrared oven cures Hi-Tek Supercoat, high performance bullet coating.

Projectiles are spread out on the conveyor belt and the oven does the rest. Approximately 5:30 minutes transit time through the oven and the coating is cured.

This is just a small test of 4.5 kg each of Hi-Tek Dark Green & Blue, first coat.


https://youtu.be/HsFJ7JS0bsI

Good to see you got your video finished, it's just under 10 minutes long, not an issue watching "paint cure", it also shows that your PID control holds the temperature of the load at 195c by the time it exists the conveyor.

[Jatz357]

Good to see you got your video finished, it's just under 10 minutes long, not an issue watching "paint cure", it also shows that your PID control holds the temperature of the load at 195c by the time it exists the conveyor.

The PID temp control works very well.

Maybe time to upgrade the old computer, it's getting slow when editing videos.

[HI-TEK]

The PID temp control works very well.

Maybe time to upgrade the old computer, it's getting slow when editing videos.

I agree with computers regularly requiring upgrade
I had replaced mine with 2 terabyte hard drive 32megs Ram and afterwards regretted that I id not go with a 128meg ram system.
With all the data, photos and videos, it really slows things down when processing. I am a novice with all this stuff, so I will do a lot of homework before I buy another computer that will work OK for longer term.

[Tazza]

I agree with computers regularly requiring upgrade
I had replaced mine with 2 terabyte hard drive 32megs Ram and afterwards regretted that I id not go with a 128meg ram system.
With all the data, photos and videos, it really slows things down when processing. I am a novice with all this stuff, so I will do a lot of homework before I buy another computer that will work OK for longer term.

It's always good in theory to buy a nice fancy high spec computer do do the work, till it just makes it past warranty and carks it. My wife bought a rather expensive HP laptop, she "needed" the best of the range to do her uni course, one that really didn't need loads of power, but whatever. It lasted 2 years then dead as a dodo. Then needed another best of the best machine, $1,200 Dell was bought again, for uni. Lets see if it makes it longer that 2 years.

They all seem to slow down over time, the more data that you put on them, the slower they get, re-install the operating system and it's fast again, for a time... But who can be bothered doing that every few months? surely not me.

[dansedgli]

How long ago was that, Mb or Gb? 32Gb of ram should be enough for almost anything.

You might be better off with a faster hard drive like an SSD if you don't already have one. The old spinning disks are much, much slower for every day things like loading windows.

I dabbled in PC late last year. I didnt mind it but the coating is patchy if you cook them dumped on a tray rather than standing them up. I found depending on where that patch was, it might jam up your gun if its close to the lands or rifling.

The annoying bit is that the coating melts and sticks the bullets to the tray and to other bullets. You need to break them apart and when you do that section won't be coated. If you leave it a long time they can be very hard to separate. I would dump the hot bullets into water and immediately start breaking them apart.

As far as shooting goes they seem the same to me at pistol speeds up to 1400 fps.

Dealing with powder is annoying, the fine dust gets up your nose a bit and can be a bit messy but you only coat once and there is no drying time.

The bag of powder was quite expensive and there is no way it would last as long as the equivelant amount of hitek but there is no acetone to buy either.

I will be hitekking going forward. They look better, are less likely to cause a gun malfunction and breaking apart bullets was a pain.

[Tazza]

I figured he was talking GB and not MB or else the computer was a dinosaur, even loads of ram doesn't mean it's going to be fast of the CPU isn't up to the task.

I heard apple machines are good for video editing, i hve never owned one though, too hard to get repaired.

Windows based systems are far easier to get parts for.

[HI-TEK]

Hello Dansedgli
As I said I am a novice with all this computer stuff.
It probably was 32Gb of ram. It is about 3 years old. I was advised at that time, that the more ram you have, the faster is the computer.

I have had both European and US casters convert from Powder coating to Hi-Tek. They said that they shake coated in a closed container, then dumped onto baking trays. After a few coats that way, the powder progressively stopped working adequately, and had to be dumped and replaced with new powder.
As advised, what seemed to be happening is, that shaking and coating, the powder was polishing the Lead pellets, leaving polished off finely divided Lead in powder residue, which was used on-going, to coat more projectiles. It was suspected, the contamination had affected the powder being used, and that is why it stopped working well over time..
I had no specific details, but seemed to make sense to me with observations supplied. Over time, I have seen the phenomena of powder coating welded casts with bare metal after breaking stuck ones apart after baking. It works to an extent, but does seem to produce other problems such as you described.
Producing evenly coated cast was also a problematic area as you only had one chance to produce a good coating, and despite looking OK, users were never sure if coating was even with thickness with the film being produced around coated cast.
It is very difficult to get a very thin even coating all around the alloy when using powder coat. This variation shows up with diameter measurement changes on the same projectiles.

[Jatz357]

I agree with computers regularly requiring upgrade
I had replaced mine with 2 terabyte hard drive 32megs Ram and afterwards regretted that I id not go with a 128meg ram system.
With all the data, photos and videos, it really slows things down when processing. I am a novice with all this stuff, so I will do a lot of homework before I buy another computer that will work OK for longer term.

I built my old computer, or more like it, just assembled the components I wanted. It is now about 9 years old and has been the best computer I've had. Originally had 120gig SSD and was very fast but more complex software now is slowing it up. The SSD failed about October last year and now I have an old 2TB hard drive running the OS and that has made it slower. I was lucky because run a good back up and restore system and was able to recover all documents etc that was on the old SSD. The SSD was completely dead and I could not get anything from it at all.

[Tazza]

That's what scares be about SSDs, if you have a failure bad enough, ypu'll never get data back. Magnetic storage is slower, more moving parts, if a head crashes, you get physical damage but the rest is recoverable. I have watched youtube videos on it, even corrupt data can be recovered with data correction, it amazes me that it can be done.

Well done on keeping good backups, i should mirror my drives more often, i don't have much critical data to loose, but if i did, i'd be unhappy.

[HI-TEK]

That's what scares be about SSDs, if you have a failure bad enough, ypu'll never get data back. Magnetic storage is slower, more moving parts, if a head crashes, you get physical damage but the rest is recoverable. I have watched youtube videos on it, even corrupt data can be recovered with data correction, it amazes me that it can be done.

Well done on keeping good backups, i should mirror my drives more often, i don't have much critical data to loose, but if i did, i'd be unhappy.

Tazza
I have three 1 terabyte external hard drives that I download every thing onto, and update weekly. Afterwards, if computer crashes, I can simply plug them into another computer and download all data I need and want. It is unlikely that all three will fail at the same time.
I have had many attempt by hackers to get into my computer. I have a surprise for them I have no value to any one on here. Any sensitive data is numerically coded so it makes no sense to any one except people here.

[Tazza]

I have an external drive too, sadly i don't back it up often, but i know i should, i have plenty of old 3.5" drives from a mate with a data centre, so i have the storage available, just laziness means i don't use them :(

Hackers calling from amazon prime, telstra, microsoft, NBN? we get a few every week....

Glad you have a system to make it so if anyone did get in, they can't use it.

[HI-TEK]

I have an external drive too, sadly i don't back it up often, but i know i should, i have plenty of old 3.5" drives from a mate with a data centre, so i have the storage available, just laziness means i don't use them :(

Hackers calling from amazon prime, telstra, microsoft, NBN? we get a few every week....

Glad you have a system to make it so if anyone did get in, they can't use it.


If they can get through my double layer security system, it will be for nothing.
Any attempts, are immediately stopped and blocked and deleted. I get a complete report afterwards.

[Jatz357]

This is an interesting picture of Hi-Tek blue.

Photo taken while projectiles were on a bench under an old fluro tube light and a spot of sunlight was shining through a gap in the window blind.

Perfect example of how artificial light changes the look of a colour.

https://www.eminenceprojectiles.com.au/images/external/hi-tek_blue_sunspot.jpg

[ioon44]

That is a good pic , light source makes a big difference.

[Jatz357]

That is a good pic , light source makes a big difference.

I first thought I had dropped an un-baked one into the tub

[Ausglock]

Short Video of how of How I coat with a hand held bucket.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DVml9QeUgu4&ab_channel=ausglock40sw

[Tazza]

Short Video of how of How I coat with a hand held bucket.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DVml9QeUgu4&ab_channel=ausglock40sw

Nice, i should send some of mine down for you to do a few more videos :)

I use vanish washing powder containers that i use. They have lids to try and get a better coat. Dump in a measured amount of projectiles, squirt in liquid hi-tek, lid on, do my shaking dance, then dump out on a laminated MDF sheet to dry. Repeat till they are all done, wait till dry, then cook.

[Ausglock]

I have a large floor fan off to the right that keeps the fumes away from me.
I'm not worried about lids as it adds to the time taken to get a good coat.
As you can see I swirl for only like 10 to 15 seconds then dump on the trays.
You may have noticed I have baking trays and coating trays.
I'll do a few more of my process over the next few days..

[Jatz357]

Short Video of how of How I coat with a hand held bucket.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DVml9QeUgu4&ab_channel=ausglock40sw

Exactly as the thread says “Simple Hi-Tek coating”

Great video showing how simple coating with Hi-Tek really is.

[Ausglock]

Exactly as the thread says “Simple Hi-Tek coating”

Great video showing how simple coating with Hi-Tek really is.

Exactly... Simple. no BB's. no static gun, no cloud of powder drifting everywhere. no cancer causing powder getting inhaled. no standing each bullet to stop them sticking together......Simple..

[dikman]

Good to see you're wearing a hi-vis shirt, safety gear is very important in this process.:smile:

I'm currently building my own powder coating gun - NOT for boolits - because I haven't figured out a way to use Hi-Tek to coat other parts. I can understand people powder coating small numbers of boolits for hunting etc but why anyone would want to do large quantities like that is crazy. In my opinion.

[Tazza]

Good to see you're wearing a hi-vis shirt, safety gear is very important in this process.:smile:

I'm currently building my own powder coating gun - NOT for boolits - because I haven't figured out a way to use Hi-Tek to coat other parts. I can understand people powder coating small numbers of boolits for hunting etc but why anyone would want to do large quantities like that is crazy. In my opinion.

I too wanted to try and use hi-tek to coat other parts to stop them rusting and be solvent safe, just not sure if it would stick to the metals i wanted... Especially small engine carby fuel bowls that always seem to rust.

Interesting building your own powder coat gun, hopefully you will share details when it's done and working.

[dikman]

Yes, it just seems a terrible waste that Hi-Tek powder can't be used to coat other metal parts. Oh well. I'm not sure if this thread is the one to post about making a powder coat gun.:lol: Anyhow, an Aussie has some very good youtube vids about making one. I'm still trying to source the powder at a reasonable price.

[HI-TEK]

Yes, it just seems a terrible waste that Hi-Tek powder can't be used to coat other metal parts. Oh well. I'm not sure if this thread is the one to post about making a powder coat gun.:lol: Anyhow, an Aussie has some very good youtube vids about making one. I'm still trying to source the powder at a reasonable price.

The limitation of using Hi-Tek on another application to metals is the ability of those parts to be heated to curing conditions.
My suggestion would be using the K-15 Black.
I have used coating to coat nuts and bolts to lubricate and protect from corrosion as well as sprockets for dry lubrication and corrosion protection.
It does work.
I have also made electrically conductive coatings that were used in mine applications to stop electrostatic build up.

[dikman]

Does that mean it will work in an electrostatic spray gun, like powder coat? It could be a bit wasteful, I suppose, given that coating boolits uses bugger all. The temperature requirements for curing aren't that different to pc, but it would be using a thicker coat than doing boolits.

[Tazza]

The limitation of using Hi-Tek on another application to metals is the ability of those parts to be heated to curing conditions.
My suggestion would be using the K-15 Black.
I have used coating to coat nuts and bolts to lubricate and protect from corrosion as well as sprockets for dry lubrication and corrosion protection.
It does work.
I have also made electrically conductive coatings that were used in mine applications to stop electrostatic build up.

Good to know, i'll give it a go. My items are metal, so getting to 180c is not an issue, time will tell how it bonds and holds with being covered in petrol.

[dikman]

Given that once cured virtually no solvent known to man (:lol:) will touch it I reckon your parts should be safe.

[HI-TEK]

Does that mean it will work in an electrostatic spray gun, like powder coat? It could be a bit wasteful, I suppose, given that coating boolits uses bugger all. The temperature requirements for curing aren't that different to pc, but it would be using a thicker coat than doing boolits.

NOOOO...... Hi-Tek is not to be used as powder coat, with or without Electrostatic gun.
As you are fully aware, powder coating with Electrostatic applications cannot guarantee uniform film thickness around projectile.
With Powder coat, you only get one chance to get product right. If finish is inadequate you cant successfully apply another coat to fix it.
With Hi-Tek if first coat is not so good, you can apply further coats and fix imperfections.
In terms of heat curing, what I have been advised is, that Powder coat requires 200C for about 20 minutes.
Hi-Tek coat requires film and cast to get to 180C and stay there for 3 more minutes, and, in most instances, heat curing is complete in about 10 minutes.

[Tazza]

Given that once cured virtually no solvent known to man (:lol:) will touch it I reckon your parts should be safe.

That is my hope too :)

I have coated the inside of paint tins before, the coating had a rough finish, not sure why, i will need to fiddle with it again to see if it was moisture, which i doubt as there were no visible bubbles.

[HI-TEK]

That is my hope too :)

I have coated the inside of paint tins before, the coating had a rough finish, not sure why, i will need to fiddle with it again to see if it was moisture, which i doubt as there were no visible bubbles.

My guess is that coating was too thick in the first place

[Tazza]

My guess is that coating was too thick in the first place

That is a real possibility. I tipped the liquid in, and swirled it around till it was all covered, adding some acetone first may have been wise to make the coating thinner. I'll try it next time

[Jatz357]

Productive morning, quick batch of 232.5 kgs 100 SWC & 122 FP, coated & baked twice.

Hi-Tek is so easy to use, whether it is just small batches or commercial quantities.

https://www.eminenceprojectiles.com.au/images/external/pile_100_122_2021_17.jpg

[HI-TEK]

Productive morning, quick batch of 232.5 kgs 100 SWC & 122 FP, coated & baked twice.

Hi-Tek is so easy to use, whether it is just small batches or commercial quantities.

https://www.eminenceprojectiles.com.au/images/external/pile_100_122_2021_17.jpg

Jatz357
What a nice load of finished products done in a morning.
Well done.
The Infra Red oven certainly works well with the Hi-Tek.
Colors are very even.

[Tazza]

Wow, that would have taken me quite a while to get done, and i sure would have been feeling it afterwards.

Awesome consistency of the colour, you have it dialed in just right.

[HI-TEK]

Wow, that would have taken me quite a while to get done, and i sure would have been feeling it afterwards.

Awesome consistency of the colour, you have it dialed in just right.

Tazza
What little I know about the IR oven system I believe that the residual bake time in oven is about 5 1/2 minutes or so.
Product leaves at about 190-195C at that exit point. From watching the video, he seems flat out keeping the oven fed.
This is why he can put through as much in a very quick time.
This system seems to significantly reduce manual labor content.

[Tazza]

I'm really impressed with how well IR heating works.

Initially i never thought about IR heating, it seems to be a far better way for the heat to be conducted to the projectiles vs hot air in a regular oven.

[HI-TEK]

I'm really impressed with how well IR heating works.

Initially i never thought about IR heating, it seems to be a far better way for the heat to be conducted to the projectiles vs hot air in a regular oven.

Tazza
The most significant difference between hot air baking and IR baking, is the way heat is transferred into the alloy
Air fan forced conventional oven heating method, the heat has to push through the coating to get to heat the alloy.
With IR it seems, that alloy get heated first as the IR simply travels through the coating and as alloy gets hot, then
coating gets cured after alloy gets to cure temperature. IR does not require fan forced air circulation.
With conventional ovens, the coating insulates the alloy, so trying to heat faster, with higher temperatures, this only gets surface of coating much hotter than alloy due to coating insulating property.
With IR baking, resulting in more even colors, even with multi bakes, and as witnessed, faster production rates at lower running costs.

[Jatz357]

Tazza
What little I know about the IR oven system I believe that the residual bake time in oven is about 5 1/2 minutes or so.
Product leaves at about 190-195C at that exit point. From watching the video, he seems flat out keeping the oven fed.
This is why he can put through as much in a very quick time.
This system seems to significantly reduce manual labor content.

Those two piles took 3 hours 6 minute from first in to last in. 232.5 kg baked twice non-stop (465 kg) through the oven & averaged exactly 150 kg an hour. The 2nd coat was applied and dried while others were still baking.

Until today, the largest projectile I had baked was 158 grain RNFP 0.357.

Did a small test with .45 200 grain and appears throughput may be 170 - 180kg an hour, although I need to compete tests with larger batches.

Also completed some tests with loading a good percentage of the projectiles stacked on top of one another. Slowed the conveyor a bit and projectiles that did not have direct line of sight to infrared still cured. Overall throughput rate was around the same. Higher load but slower transit time.

[Jatz357]

Tazza
The most significant difference between hot air baking and IR baking, is the way heat is transferred into the alloy
Air fan forced conventional oven heating method, the heat has to push through the coating to get to heat the alloy.
With IR it seems, that alloy get heated first as the IR simply travels through the coating and as alloy gets hot, then
coating gets cured after alloy gets to cure temperature. IR does not require fan forced air circulation.
With conventional ovens, the coating insulates the alloy, so trying to heat faster, with higher temperatures, this only gets surface of coating much hotter than alloy due to coating insulating property.
With IR baking, resulting in more even colors, even with multi bakes, and as witnessed, faster production rates at lower running costs.

Some numbers on power usage for last bake 232.5 kgs baked twice total 465 kgs.

Oven heating capacity 4600 watts

Oven warm up for 20 minutes used 1.103 kw
Oven Bake time 3:06 hr used 8.028 kw (average 17.265 kw per ton)

Total 9.131 kw (average 19.637 per ton)

Unfortunately, I do not have any comparison data using a larger convection oven, only a small oven and that usage was very high compared to infrared.

[HI-TEK]

Some numbers on power usage for last bake 232.5 kgs baked twice total 465 kgs.

Oven heating capacity 4600 watts

Oven warm up for 20 minutes used 1.103 kw
Oven Bake time 3:06 used 8.028 kw (average 17.265 kw per ton)

Total 9.131 kw (average 19.637 per ton)

Unfortunately, I do not have any comparison data using a larger convection oven, only a small oven and that usage was very high compared to infrared.

Jatz357
I am sure that some folks already have power usage data vs production rate, with using convectional oven baking.
I may be wrong, but the power consumption for the IR seems to be be closer to 50% of power used by fan forced ovens. I also think, it seems that throughput rates are much higher with an IR oven for lower power usage, and the increase production rate, and power savings, seem a great benefit with IR baking systems.

[mjwcaster]

So I finally learned something, too high of cook temp can cause wipe test failure.

I hitek coated successfully for a few years then started having issues in 2018. I also had weird alloy issues and finally went back to recluse lubing. I wasn’t casting much until last fall after I moved and tried hitek again.

I found a grill thermometer and checked my convection toaster oven, oven was low. Set temp higher. I could burn the coating but still fail the wipe test, and I had tried everything I could think of, new mix then new acetone, containers, alloy, gloves everything, extra long drying times. I finally ordered a new batch of hitek powder (blue).

Tried it out this morning, oven temp set to 450, thermometer read 410. Came out burnt brown and failed the wipe test.
Gave up and went fishing, new rods with new trilene xl, line is a twisted, knotty mess, my daughter and I gave up and went grocery shopping.
At least I had a decent casting session this morning, my best in years, finally getting my new to me Lee 4-20 dialed in.

When I got back home I decided to fire up the oven, let it come to temp and try my new casting thermometer. Set to 450 old thermometer read 400, casting thermometer reads 460.
That could be a problem.

Set oven to 375, empty reading of 400 on casting thermometer.
Cooked a small batch of my newly cast/coated 358-125’s, they didn’t burn and passed the wipe test.
Recoated and cooked again, success. Wiped clean and passed the smash test.

Now to size, load and shoot them. Maybe during this Tuesday’s forecasted April snowfall.

My best guess is that my initial problems were caused by too large of a batch for my oven, then I tried raising the temp instead of going for a longer cook time. Coupled with a faulty thermometer that I thought had checked ok with boiling water.
Maybe I was already on the verge of too high temp to begin with.

But I am finally coating successfully again. I will try a new batch of the old red coating on my next batch of bullets for kicks. I really didn’t like going back to the recluse lube, especially the batch I way over lubed, what a sticky, smoky mess.

I guess I expected too high of a cook temp to just give issues with flaking, wipe test failures to be to low/short of a cook.


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[HI-TEK]

So I finally learned something, too high of cook temp can cause wipe test failure.

I hitek coated successfully for a few years then started having issues in 2018. I also had weird alloy issues and finally went back to recluse lubing. I wasn’t casting much until last fall after I moved and tried hitek again.

I found a grill thermometer and checked my convection toaster oven, oven was low. Set temp higher. I could burn the coating but still fail the wipe test, and I had tried everything I could think of, new mix then new acetone, containers, alloy, gloves everything, extra long drying times. I finally ordered a new batch of hitek powder (blue).

Tried it out this morning, oven temp set to 450, thermometer read 410. Came out burnt brown and failed the wipe test.
Gave up and went fishing, new rods with new trilene xl, line is a twisted, knotty mess, my daughter and I gave up and went grocery shopping.
At least I had a decent casting session this morning, my best in years, finally getting my new to me Lee 4-20 dialed in.

When I got back home I decided to fire up the oven, let it come to temp and try my new casting thermometer. Set to 450 old thermometer read 400, casting thermometer reads 460.
That could be a problem.

Set oven to 375, empty reading of 400 on casting thermometer.
Cooked a small batch of my newly cast/coated 358-125’s, they didn’t burn and passed the wipe test.
Recoated and cooked again, success. Wiped clean and passed the smash test.

Now to size, load and shoot them. Maybe during this Tuesday’s forecasted April snowfall.

My best guess is that my initial problems were caused by too large of a batch for my oven, then I tried raising the temp instead of going for a longer cook time. Coupled with a faulty thermometer that I thought had checked ok with boiling water.
Maybe I was already on the verge of too high temp to begin with.

But I am finally coating successfully again. I will try a new batch of the old red coating on my next batch of bullets for kicks. I really didn’t like going back to the recluse lube, especially the batch I way over lubed, what a sticky, smoky mess.

I guess I expected too high of a cook temp to just give issues with flaking, wipe test failures to be to low/short of a cook.


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MJWCASTER
Interesting report
I just wanted to advise, that coatings have been baked at 200C for a week.
Aside from going Black none failed smash test, and, l in fact they were most accurate ammo.
I think you may have found the problems with overloading, and radiation burns damaged coated cast near heating element.
Layers below, did not get to cure temperatures.

[mjwcaster]

MJWCASTER
Interesting report
I just wanted to advise, that coatings have been baked at 200C for a week.
Aside from going Black none failed smash test, and, l in fact they were most accurate ammo.
I think you may have found the problems with overloading, and radiation burns damaged coated cast near heating element.
Layers below, did not get to cure temperatures.

Today’s failed batch was probably 4-500 452-230. Two pans, single layer in each. Top pan was burned really brown, bottom pan, partially full was mostly brown with some blue color remaining.
I used to successfully do batches this size years ago in this same oven.
Both pans wiped blue.
If my casting thermometer was to be trusted they were cooked at ~240C.
I figured there might be an issue when smoke/fumes started pouring out of the oven, lasting for several minutes. But I assumed they would be over cooked and flaking, not uncured.

I used to Cook them in the basement during the winter and never had fume issues, years ago when the coating worked for me.
When I started having issues a few years ago I was cooking outside after work in the dark, so I wouldn’t have noticed an increase in smoke/fumes.


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[HI-TEK]

Today’s failed batch was probably 4-500 452-230. Two pans, single layer in each. Top pan was burned really brown, bottom pan, partially full was mostly brown with some blue color remaining.
I used to successfully do batches this size years ago in this same oven.
Both pans wiped blue.
If my casting thermometer was to be trusted they were cooked at ~240C.
I figured there might be an issue when smoke/fumes started pouring out of the oven, lasting for several minutes. But I assumed they would be over cooked and flaking, not uncured.

I used to Cook them in the basement during the winter and never had fume issues, years ago when the coating worked for me.
When I started having issues a few years ago I was cooking outside after work in the dark, so I wouldn’t have noticed an increase in smoke/fumes.


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I suspect that your thermostat is not working correctly. For coatings to turn that colour there is a strong indication that you are not in control of your temperatures.

[mjwcaster]

I suspect that your thermostat is not working correctly. For coatings to turn that colour there is a strong indication that you are not in control of your temperatures.

I think the oven control is close, maybe runs a little hotter than set for, It is the bbq thermometer that read 60-70F low that made things worse, plus the assumption that I needed higher temp as I had already tried longer Cook times (at too high a temp it appears).

The oven is close to my casting thermometer that I put in today, still runs a bit hotter than set for.
I had the oven set to 450F for the smoking batch, bbq thermometer read 400F. When checked later empty at 450F bbq thermometer read 400F, casting thermometer read 460F

Oven was set to 375F for the good batch.

A big issue I have always had is how to test calibration of thermometers over 212F(100C).
32/212F(0-100C) is easy, ice water/boiling water.
400-800F presents a challenge, best idea I can come up with is checking the melt points of known alloys.
Now I just need some known pure lead and tin, nothing I have is guaranteed pure.

Because even if I get around to building a pid controller, what’s to say it’s accurate without testing the calibration.


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[Ausglock]

PID with a K sensor will still indicate in boiling water.
I have run 2 seperate sensors in my oven and there was 1 degree difference at 200Deg C.

[HI-TEK]

I think the oven control is close, maybe runs a little hotter than set for, It is the bbq thermometer that read 60-70F low that made things worse, plus the assumption that I needed higher temp as I had already tried longer Cook times (at too high a temp it appears).

The oven is close to my casting thermometer that I put in today, still runs a bit hotter than set for.
I had the oven set to 450F for the smoking batch, bbq thermometer read 400F. When checked later empty at 450F bbq thermometer read 400F, casting thermometer read 460F

Oven was set to 375F for the good batch.

A big issue I have always had is how to test calibration of thermometers over 212F(100C).
32/212F(0-100C) is easy, ice water/boiling water.
400-800F presents a challenge, best idea I can come up with is checking the melt points of known alloys.
Now I just need some known pure lead and tin, nothing I have is guaranteed pure.

Because even if I get around to building a pid controller, what’s to say it’s accurate without testing the calibration.


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Probably an Infra Red thermometer from eBay, similar to what is used to measure persons will be most efficient way to determine your cast temperature, and calibrate your thermometers. You simply point, apply the trigger and you get instant temperature readings displayed on the screen.

[mjwcaster]

Probably an Infra Red thermometer from eBay, similar to what is used to measure pers will be most efficient way to determine your cast temperature, and calibrate your thermometers. You simply point, apply the trigger and you get instant temperature readings displayed on the screen.

I’ve never heard good things about IR thermometer accuracy, especially when measuring lead.
There actually is a recent thread here that touches on them -

https://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?420688-Lead-thermometer

For now I’ll call my new Tru-Tell 200-1000F casting thermometer my most trusted thermometer and try to get it tested in the future.
If I build a PID and it matches the Tru-Tell that will be close enough for me.
But I’m a geek and prefer to have at least 1 calibrated device in house, stored safely and used only to verify the daily use gauges. An in house calibration system.

I prefer to be picky when it comes to measuring devices, when I’m not I get burned like this. Or like when I built the stand for my Lee pots, used a tape for the some pieces and a square for the other ones. Put it together and the top didn’t fit perfectly.
Checked and the stupid cheap tape I used had a severely bent hook, it read probably 1/4”-3/8” short.
Shame on me for not checking it.


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[Jatz357]

I’ve never heard good things about IR thermometer accuracy, especially when measuring lead.
There actually is a recent thread here that touches on them -

https://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?420688-Lead-thermometer

For now I’ll call my new Tru-Tell 200-1000F casting thermometer my most trusted thermometer and try to get it tested in the future.
If I build a PID and it matches the Tru-Tell that will be close enough for me.
But I’m a geek and prefer to have at least 1 calibrated device in house, stored safely and used only to verify the daily use gauges. An in house calibration system.

I prefer to be picky when it comes to measuring devices, when I’m not I get burned like this. Or like when I built the stand for my Lee pots, used a tape for the some pieces and a square for the other ones. Put it together and the top didn’t fit perfectly.
Checked and the stupid cheap tape I used had a severely bent hook, it read probably 1/4”-3/8” short.
Shame on me for not checking it.


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Infrared thermometers are not very accurate with molten lead, uncoated projectiles or reflective surfaces in general.

Once projectiles are coated, temperature readings with an IR thermometer are more accurate.

[dikman]

Much has been written in this forum about PIDS and many use them for casting. Even if they're not completely accurate any variation is only likely to be maybe +/- 5 degrees, not the 60-odd you've experienced. I don't recall anyone having those sorts of issues when using a PID, I use them for casting (2 pots) and in my little toaster oven for coating and never had a problem with them.

[Jatz357]

Much has been written in this forum about PIDS and many use them for casting. Even if they're not completely accurate any variation is only likely to be maybe +/- 5 degrees, not the 60-odd you've experienced. I don't recall anyone having those sorts of issues when using a PID, I use them for casting (2 pots) and in my little toaster oven for coating and never had a problem with them.

The image is of my automated caster PID's. There are two that control the lead melt pot. The temps shown are this morning before the pot was turned on. There is 2.1 degrees difference. Both PID's, connectors and K type thermocouples are identical. Thermocouples are just cheap no brand. I have not bothered with calibration and have no issues.

IR thermometer taking a reading on the outside of the melt pot (flat back colour surface) 15.4 degrees. Pointing at the solid lead in the pot I was getting 15 - 15.8 degrees. Shed thermometer read 14.8. There is a bit of variation there.

https://www.eminenceprojectiles.com.au/images/external/pid_lead_pot_2021_4.jpg

[Tazza]

You make a very good point, my pid for my pot reads about 2c low as well. I never bothered calibrating it either as i just alter my melt temperature to get the lead liquid and good fill out, when it's there, there is no reason to change it.

For an oven to cure, i do see the need to have something to confirm the temperature reaches the cure mark, or else you're wasting your time. I did this once, i had it too low, and they never cured, a second lap at the correct temperature did the job.

[HI-TEK]

You make a very good point, my pid for my pot reads about 2c low as well. I never bothered calibrating it either as i just alter my melt temperature to get the lead liquid and good fill out, when it's there, there is no reason to change it.

For an oven to cure, i do see the need to have something to confirm the temperature reaches the cure mark, or else you're wasting your time. I did this once, i had it too low, and they never cured, a second lap at the correct temperature did the job.

I may be incorrect with my assumption, but what I seem to be constantly reading is, people quoting the Oven temperatures.
No one seems to be checking what is actual coated product temperature that is being cured.
I again stress, the oven provides the heat what ever the setting is set on the oven.
The product must get to 180C and stay there for about another 2-3 minutes afterwards, (at 180C).
If oven is set or is over heating with poor thermostat control, at 250C, after the product reaches 180C and with the extra 3 minutes baking with oven producing 250C, it will very quickly reach overbake temperatures, and well above what is required, and coating colour will be damaged.

[Tazza]

My baking mishap was my own stupid fault, i'm now more careful to ensure i get my cast to curing temperature.

I have never measured projectile temperature, but with messing with wipe and smash testing, i know that my oven settings with baking times does get the cast to 180c for more than 2-3 minutes so they are cured.

Every oven will be different, i have worked what works for me and my oven, when it dies and is upgraded, i'll have to do the fiddling again unless i do as others have, installing a thermocouple in a projectile to see how long it takes to hit curing temperature and repeat it.

[dikman]

I made up a cast boolit with a temp probe inserted to see what the temps were doing in the oven and it's close enough to the PID that I don't worry about it. I already knew my oven/PID was working fine, I was just curious. I've never worried about whether a PID is accurately calibrated.

[Tazza]

I made up a cast boolit with a temp probe inserted to see what the temps were doing in the oven and it's close enough to the PID that I don't worry about it. I already knew my oven/PID was working fine, I was just curious. I've never worried about whether a PID is accurately calibrated.

I'll have some big heavy chunks of lead to coat in the next few weeks, i may have to look at doing this to dial things in for different weights. My only issue with using a probe in a projectile is, i don't have any other measuring devices that are calibrated. I do have a few spare K thermocouples but again, no calibrated meter to hook it up to. A few c here and there i'd like to think is not going to be an issue.

I do have some blue hi-tek on the way, so i may need to be a bit more careful to get the colour right. I'm excited to give it a go though!

[Ausglock]

I have fitted pilot lights to my oven. The 2 SSR's that run the 2 heating elements each now have a pilot light to show when they are energized. I had a runaway the other day due to a faulty SSR. Now I can see the SSR's cycling as the PID sends control signals.

[Petander]

I have fitted pilot lights to my oven. The 2 SSR's that run the 2 heating elements each now have a pilot light to show when they are energized. I had a runaway the other day due to a faulty SSR. Now I can see the SSR's cycling as the PID sends control signals.

Very clever.

[Jatz357]

I have fitted pilot lights to my oven. The 2 SSR's that run the 2 heating elements each now have a pilot light to show when they are energized. I had a runaway the other day due to a faulty SSR. Now I can see the SSR's cycling as the PID sends control signals.

This the infrared oven PID control. I used illuminated switches so it was easier to see if the PID was on or not. Green is circuit on, Red is PID active.

https://www.eminenceprojectiles.com.au/images/external/inrared_oven_control_pid_2021-04.jpg

[Tazza]

"idiot" lights are a great invention, you can see at a glance if things are on or not.

[Jatz357]

"idiot" lights are a great invention, you can see at a glance if things are on or not.

And if I was smart, I'd use the PID alarm function as an additional safety just in case the temperature was to exceed a set maximum threshold.

[HI-TEK]

And if I was smart, I'd use the PID alarm function as an additional safety just in case the temperature was to exceed a set maximum threshold.

Jatz & Tazza

With the way you all seem to be heading, it may end up a smart machine, self thinking, self fixing, and non reliant on human errors, producing product automatically....LOL

[Tazza]

Using the alarm function isn't a bad idea, even if you used that on an SSR to cut power to the heating elements if it hit a set point that indicated that an SSR blew and us now not turning off.

Joe, we can only hope we can get to a point they aren't too smart and work out they don't need their creators anymore and to just do our menial tasks for us :) "plays terminator theme song in the background"

[Ausglock]

Was talking to a mate in Victoria who makes gas IR heaters for potato chip and coffee bean roasters.
He can do a Gas IR heater with a rubber conveyor. He is sending photos of the units.

[HI-TEK]

Was talking to a mate in Victoria who makes gas IR heaters for potato chip and coffee bean roasters.
He can do a Gas IR heater with a rubber conveyor. He is sending photos of the units.

It would be great if we can get a few kilo samples of roasted Coffee Beans as well to have decide if oven works OK or not... Just thinking...
I wonder what temperatures would the system take, especially the Rubber conveyor. If it is a Silicone rubber type it may be able to withstand 180C plus, but for how long is a question.
I used IR oven in my younger days to dry from moisture, from sensitive photographic chemical crystals. They were in stainless steel trays, that required occasional mixing and turning over with a stainless spatula. It was a gentle way of drying with low wattage IR globes similar to what is used for bathrooms to keep warm.

[Jatz357]

Was talking to a mate in Victoria who makes gas IR heaters for potato chip and coffee bean roasters.
He can do a Gas IR heater with a rubber conveyor. He is sending photos of the units.

I researched these a while ago. Know as Gas Catalytic IR. At the time I didn't find a lot of information, wanted to know if they were short or long wave IR. I thought they might have been more like halogen IR and they would heat the exterior faster.

Some companies say there is a 50% energy saving compared to a conventional oven and 3:1 time saving. For every 3 minutes it took to heat or cure something the gas IR takes 1 minute.

[Tazza]

My only concern with a gas IR curing oven would be a possible ignition source of the gasses from when it cures, but i assume Joe will advise that the gasses are not flammable?

IR heating is a far better way of transferring heat, you are heating the objects directally, and not the air that in turn heats the object.

[HI-TEK]

My only concern with a gas IR curing oven would be a possible ignition source of the gasses from when it cures, but i assume Joe will advise that the gasses are not flammable?

IR heating is a far better way of transferring heat, you are heating the objects directly, and not the air that in turn heats the object.

Tazza
I am aware that some manufacturers are using LPG or natural gas heating to bake coated projectiles.
In all the years, I have never been advised about any ovens with fumes catching alight .

I have many times, repeated, that air is a very poor conductor of heat. That is why ovens need a fan forced circulation to get hot air to make contact with what is baking baked as many times during bake cycle, to try and transfer heat from air into the product.
What has now been proven is, that IR heating does not heat the air, but heat directly goes into the metal, and as metal heats up, the heat radiates outwards and cures the resin.
The IR system mostly eliminates the coatings being burned, with trying to force heat through the insulating property of the coating, as the heat is actually generated inside alloy radiating outwards.

[Tazza]

Tazza
I am aware that some manufacturers are using LPG or natural gas heating to bake coated projectiles.
In all the years, I have never been advised about any ovens with fumes catching alight .

I have many times, repeated, that air is a very poor conductor of heat. That is why ovens need a fan forced circulation to get hot air to make contact with what is baking baked as many times during bake cycle, to try and transfer heat from air into the product.
What has now been proven is, that IR heating does not heat the air, but heat directly goes into the metal, and as metal heats up, the heat radiates outwards and cures the resin.
The IR system mostly eliminates the coatings being burned, with trying to force heat through the insulating property of the coating, as the heat is actually generated inside alloy radiating outwards.

Glad there have been no reports of fires from using gas based heating. The guys that i bought my first lot of coating from had an explosion years ago, but it was not hi-tek that they were using in a regular style industrial oven.

[HI-TEK]

Glad there have been no reports of fires from using gas based heating. The guys that i bought my first lot of coating from had an explosion years ago, but it was not hi-tek that they were using in a regular style industrial oven.

Tazza,
That coating had contained slow drying solvents. When coatings were heated in the oven, those slow drying solvents that were trapped in the film were evaporated from the coatings, and, were contained/concentrated in the oven. I am not surprised about such explosions, especially when the ovens may also not had adequate exhaust system, and products were not dried adequately before baking them.
Any coatings that contain solvent based systems, can cause such a problem.
I have tried to constantly advise, that coatings applied from solvent systems, all should be thoroughly dried before placing the into an oven.

[Tazza]

Tazza,
That coating had contained slow drying solvents. When coatings were heated in the oven, those slow drying solvents that were trapped in the film were evaporated from the coatings, and, were contained/concentrated in the oven. I am not surprised about such explosions, especially when the ovens may also not had adequate exhaust system, and products were not dried adequately before baking them.
Any coatings that contain solvent based systems, can cause such a problem.
I have tried to constantly advise, that coatings applied from solvent systems, all should be thoroughly dried before placing the into an oven.

I believe that was the case too, i never had fires or explosions when i used it, but i may have just been lucky. After cooking, i opened the door and the stinky plume of smoke came out, i'd just need to move my head to not cop it.

I did ensure everything was dry before baking, and i still do with Hi-Tek, but i always got smoke from the old stuff, hi-tek does give a smell, but not a cloud of stinky smoke.

[Ausglock]

Keep an eye out for the New HITEK mold release.
tested it over the weekend on a Lee 6 Cavity 105gn SWC 9mm mold. This mold is a bugger to get the bullets to drop from. Little weight and lube grooves make it want to stay in the cavities. Had to rap the hinge bolt on the handles severely to free them up.
But..........Mixed the release agent with acetone and brushed it into the cavities and the mold faces, Under the spruplate as well.
Set the mold to pre-heat in the hotplate as the pots heated up.
First bullets from the mold fell out as I opened the handles!!!!!

After 3 hours of casting, they were still falling from the molds in perfect shape.
When the mold cooled down, I coud see where the release agent had bonded to the mold surface.

This stuff is amazing.

Going to apply it to all the molds for the Autocasters and smooth out production.

[Tazza]

Keep an eye out for the New HITEK mold release.
tested it over the weekend on a Lee 6 Cavity 105gn SWC 9mm mold. This mold is a bugger to get the bullets to drop from. Little weight and lube grooves make it want to stay in the cavities. Had to rap the hinge bolt on the handles severely to free them up.
But..........Mixed the release agent with acetone and brushed it into the cavities and the mold faces, Under the spruplate as well.
Set the mold to pre-heat in the hotplate as the pots heated up.
First bullets from the mold fell out as I opened the handles!!!!!

After 3 hours of casting, they were still falling from the molds in perfect shape.
When the mold cooled down, I coud see where the release agent had bonded to the mold surface.

This stuff is amazing.

Going to apply it to all the molds for the Autocasters and smooth out production.

Good to hear Joe has been hard at it again, i have his powdered one that you add metho to. I hope it holds on to the steel moulds as well as it did for the lee aluminium ones.

[dikman]

Sounds interesting. Let's see the pc crowd come up with something like that.:lol:

[DDriller]

I need some of that release agent! I have a couple of aluminum molds that I have to beat on way too hard to get the bullets to release. I've toyed with the idea of using HBN that I use on jacketed bullets but didn't want to screw up a good mold. Let us know when it goes on sale.

[Tazza]

So far i have been lucky with having mine not stick after i carbon the mould cavities up with an acetylene flame, but interested in trying this stuff out. I get lead smears on my automated master caster, hopefully when i get one of my new to me machines up and running, i can give it a good test to see what it will do.

[Burnt Fingers]

I'd buy it as soon as it shows up in the US.

[HI-TEK]

I'd buy it as soon as it shows up in the US.


To DDriller and Burnt Fingers I am pretty sure that the stuff (powdered non bonded version) is available in small quantities in the US at this stage.
I suppose, first in best dressed.

Tazza the stuff reported upon by Ausglock is a bonded version of the 500+ mold release. This stuff originally was used for release on molds making glass bottles and on Galvanizing frames that lowered items into molten Zinc to be Galvanized.
This version is not yet available in the US. This stuff is mixed into solvent and very sparingly brush applied to surfaces. Heat from pre-heating molds will bond release agent to the molds. Additional heat from alloys being poured into molds will further heat-set the release agent.

The bonded and non bonded are both powdered products, and both are applied by brush to all surfaces where you don't want alloy to stick.
The powdered bonded version is applied, (painted onto surfaces) after making it into a solvent mix first. The non bonded version powder is applied as is.
Both are applied with a small brush.

For fishermen and women, who make their sinkers, these products work great on Aluminium molds to stop Lead sticking.

[Tazza]

To DDriller and Burnt Fingers I am pretty sure that the stuff (powdered non bonded version) is available in small quantities in the US at this stage.
I suppose, first in best dressed.

Tazza the stuff reported upon by Ausglock is a bonded version of the 500+ mold release. This stuff originally was used for release on molds making glass bottles and on Galvanizing frames that lowered items into molten Zinc to be Galvanized.
This version is not yet available in the US. This stuff is mixed into solvent and very sparingly brush applied to surfaces. Heat from pre-heating molds will bond release agent to the molds. Additional heat from alloys being poured into molds will further heat-set the release agent.

The bonded and non bonded are both powdered products, and both are applied by brush to all surfaces where you don't want alloy to stick.
The powdered bonded version is applied, (painted onto surfaces) after making it into a solvent mix first. The non bonded version powder is applied as is.
Both are applied with a small brush.

For fishermen and women, who make their sinkers, these products work great on Aluminium molds to stop Lead sticking.

500+ is the powdered version i got from you, add metho for sizing or as you instructed, brush on to mould cavities to help with release. I assume the bonded version is a different product? I can imagine it worked well for releasing bottles, it's slick as, even in small quantities.

[HI-TEK]

500+ is the powdered version i got from you, add metho for sizing or as you instructed, brush on to mould cavities to help with release. I assume the bonded version is a different product? I can imagine it worked well for releasing bottles, it's slick as, even in small quantities.

Tazza,
You received two separate products
One was Aqualube that is used for sizing after mixing/diluting with denatured alcohol.
The other product you received was the 500+, brush on powder, used as is onto molds and surfaces, where you don't want alloy sticking.

You have not seen the 500+ bonded version. This is applied after making up a diluted solvent solution and painted onto surfaces to stop sticking of alloys, and this applied coating bonds to metal surfaces, where the powdered 500+ (you have) is a non bonded version applied by brush as a powder.

These can be used for sizing but both may prove more costly as compared to Aqualube system.

[Tazza]

Tazza,
You received two separate products
One was Aqualube that is used for sizing after mixing/diluting with denatured alcohol.
The other product you received was the 500+, brush on powder, used as is onto molds and surfaces, where you don't want alloy sticking.

You have not seen the 500+ bonded version. This is applied after making up a diluted solvent solution and painted onto surfaces to stop sticking of alloys, and this applied coating bonds to metal surfaces, where the powdered 500+ (you have) is a non bonded version applied by brush as a powder.

These can be used for sizing but both may prove more costly as compared to Aqualube system.

Sorry, i mixed that up, aqualibe for sizing 500+ powder for mould release that i have applied with brush and also mixed with metho and applied with a dropper to sprue cutters.

[Ausglock]

I cast another hour last night with the same mold that was treated on the weekend. Pre-heat as normal while the pot is melting.
First bullets out where perfect and fell from the mold.

Nice.

[Dsltech1]

I have the 500 plus mould release liquid concentrate that Bayou sells and it works great. Is it one of these two or a different version all together?

[HI-TEK]

I cast another hour last night with the same mold that was treated on the weekend. Pre-heat as normal while the pot is melting.
First bullets out where perfect and fell from the mold.

Nice.

You used the bonded version of the 500+.
At a guess, it should last longer as a release agent because it is bonded to the mould and does not transfer.
In terms of how long this bonded version will continue to work as a release is a guess at this stage, but
I envisage quite a while, as casting should not wear away surface, as there is minimal abrasion taking place.
Only time will tell all.

[HI-TEK]

I have the 500 plus mould release liquid concentrate that Bayou sells and it works great. Is it one of these two or a different version all together?

Dsltech1
This is similar but not the same as the liquid version.
These products produce a silvery steel Grey finish. One simply as a powder brush on, and the other one is a powder made up with solvent to act as a paint type system that will bond to where it is painted onto after heat is applied to that mould, (with pre-heat) and plus cast alloy heat.
These were produced to eliminate solvents being shipped all around the world.
User can prepare a mix, after they have the powder of choice, use the non bonded powder as is, or use the bonded version after mixing it with Acetone at about 5 grams into about 50-80 mls Acetone. The 5g/80mls mix goes a very long way and is applied sparingly by brush.

[Avenger442]

Just emailed Alan Easterly at HP Bullet coatings to let me know when new mold release is in stock here in US.
Thanks Joe.

I found some .308s that I had coated way back when I first started using the Hi Tek. Coating was a little thick. One of my mistakes back then was trying to make a jacket out of it. Loaded them up and went to the range. While these were not as accurate as my more recent coated bullets, I did shoot 100 rounds with no leading (of course). My newer coated bullets will shoot 2" at 200 yards.

We have a CMP range here that has a 200, 300 and 600 yard electronic scoring range. They will not let you shoot the 300 yard range until you can put three out of five in 2" at 200 yards. Same for 600 yard need to put three out of five in the bulls eye on the 300 yard. All of the guys that I have seen shooting there are using manufactured jacketed bullets. But I want to do that 600 yards with a bullet that I cast and coated with Hi Tek. I'm almost ready to try that 300 yards.

This stuff works.

[Ausglock]

Tried casting from a dead cold mold treated with the new release bonding agent.
First bullets out were perfect.....Surprised the hell out of me..

Cast for 1 hour and they were still falling free with only a light tap on the handle hinge.

[Avenger442]

I've got a MP mold and two of my Lee molds that I think this product might help.

[dikman]

Yeah, likewise, I've got a custom brass mold that gives me trouble, maybe this will help.

[Avenger442]

It just occured to me to ask, this bonding mold release will work on brass, too?

[HI-TEK]

I really cannot answer that question. I have never had opportunity to test it.

[Ausglock]

It just occured to me to ask, this bonding mold release will work on brass, too?

I don't have any Brass molds.
Only Ally and iron.
Testing it on iron mold sometime this week.

[Avenger442]

Most of my molds are aluminum. I like the weight better than the steel and brass. But I do have some steel and brass. If it will not work well on them it's no big deal.

Thanks to you guys for advancements in casting with continued R&D and testing. I think all of us that use Hi Tek appreciate your work.

[dikman]

Joe is sending me some to try on my brass mold, I'll let you know if it makes any difference.

[HI-TEK]

Most of my molds are aluminum. I like the weight better than the steel and brass. But I do have some steel and brass. If it will not work well on them it's no big deal.

Thanks to you guys for advancements in casting with continued R&D and testing. I think all of us that use Hi Tek appreciate your work.


Thanks Avenger
When applying the solution of the bonded coating version of the 500+, painted onto Brass or other metals, we wont know how well the bonding agent will stick onto various metals. In theory, it should work OK, as the bonded version of the 500+ will be like a paint.

The brush on dry powdered 500+ , should work OK, as it simply is a thin film of powder that is spread over the surface and it should cling to surfaces.

Again, for end use, the idea of having a bonded version will probably suit and be favored for auto casters, as it will reduce the need for re-application during production, and should last longer as a release agent, as the material should stay put. Even excessive heat will not damage the powdered or bonded versions.

Main thing to remember is, use very sparingly, as that is all that is required to make it both to work and release casts even from corroded and worn molds.
Other benefits are that the two grades of the 500+ is non contaminating, no sticky or liquid mess coating casts. The casts will be clean and dry, and very economical to use.

[Avenger442]

Main thing to remember is, use very sparingly, as that is all that is required to make it both to work and release casts even from corroded and worn molds.
Other benefits are that the two grades of the 500+ is non contaminating, no sticky or liquid mess coating casts. The casts will be clean and dry, and very economical to use.

Joe
Your the only manufacturer I know that tells the customer to use very small amounts of his product.:bigsmyl2:

I have some of the spray on 500 powder mold release that works well. But you are right, something that stays on the mold longer as in a bonded coat would be better. I usually don't have very long casting sessions because I only cast for myself. But I have had to reapply the powder when doing a lot of bullets.

I haven't had as much success with the spray sizing lube Aqualube. A permanently bonded coating for sizing dies would be nice. I usually polish my Lee dies if I'm having a problem and use the sizing lube which does help some.

[HI-TEK]

Joe
Your the only manufacturer I know that tells the customer to use very small amounts of his product.:bigsmyl2:

I have some of the spray on 500 powder mold release that works well. But you are right, something that stays on the mold longer as in a bonded coat would be better. I usually don't have very long casting sessions because I only cast for myself. But I have had to reapply the powder when doing a lot of bullets.

I haven't had as much success with the spray sizing lube Aqualube. A permanently bonded coating for sizing dies would be nice. I usually polish my Lee dies if I'm having a problem and use the sizing lube which does help some.


Thanks Avenger

We have a saying, "waste not want not". If the products work with using at minimum rates, why waste it with over use. It simply wont work any better.

With Aqualube, can you please advise what you use or purchased, and how do you prepare and or apply it to coat cast that needs sizing?

Currently, we have a set up equipment, where we can measure the actual loads required to push a cast through die. We can measure the actual load, and load reduction after cast is coated, and coated and Aqualubed.
This will provide the actual load reduction with sizing, that results by using the Aqualube.
I hope to publish a table of test results, with various calibers, and possibly a video of the actual process.

Initial tests with setting up the equipment looked great.

[Tazza]

Thanks Avenger

We have a saying, "waste not want not". If the products work with using at minimum rates, why waste it with over use. It simply wont work any better.

With Aqualube, can you please advise what you use or purchased, and how do you prepare and or apply it, before you use it to coat cast that needs sizing?

Currently, we have a set up equipment, where we can measure the actual loads required to push a cast through die. We can measure the actual load, and load reduction after cast is coated, and coated and Aqualubed.
This will provide the actual load reduction with sizing, that results by using the Aqualube.
I hope to publish a table of test results, with various calibers, and possibly a video of the actual process.

Initial tests with setting up the equipment looked great.

Looking forward to seeing how this works out, having actual numbers behind you for proof is what you want.

[Avenger442]

With Aqualube, can you please advise what you use or purchased, and how do you prepare and or apply it to coat cast that needs sizing?

Before I answer this I just want to say that my lack of success may be due to not really using it that much and my expectation of what the product was going to do. I bought it specifically for a bullet that I was sizing down from.312 to .309. After it was coated the bullet was slick but I was having a hard time forcing it through the die. Aqualube didn't reduce the effort as much as I had hopped. I had also tried it with another bullet I was sizing down, but don't remember the size. I remember that one going better. So two times is not really a good go at it.

I bought Aqualube 5000 concentrate. It was mixed per instructions with isopropyl alcohol. Sprayed onto the bullets then tumbled them around a bit and sprayed again and tumbled. Let dry. Then sized.

I may have just wanted too much. The sizing genie just didn't slide it through the die with no effort at all.:cry:

[HI-TEK]

Before I answer this I just want to say that my lack of success may be due to not really using it that much and my expectation of what the product was going to do. I bought it specifically for a bullet that I was sizing down from.312 to .309. That is quite a size reduction. No wonder you had difficulty with it

After it was coated the bullet was slick but I was having a hard time forcing it through the die. Aqualube didn't reduce the effort as much as I had hopped.
Your results with this may have been the use of the Aqualube in wrong mix ratio

I had also tried it with another bullet I was sizing down, but don't remember the size. I remember that one going better. So two times is not really a good go at it.

I bought Aqualube 5000 concentrate. It was mixed per instructions with isopropyl alcohol. Please advise ratio of Aqualube to denatured Alcohol.
Sprayed onto the bullets then tumbled them around a bit and sprayed again and tumbled. Let dry. Then sized. That is OK as long as what you applied left adequate lube when dry.

Avenger
I will reply against your details in red .
If you ask Alan Esterly, he will provide you with updated mixing ratios using the Aqualube concentrates.
This is why we are doing load reduction tests to quantify the actual loads required, with and without using Aqualube to push it through. Hopefully we will get meaningful results that confirms lubricity of the Aqualube and what load reductions are achieved by using it.

[Burnt Fingers]

Aqua-Lube works. I can tell the difference using my Star.

I had some 9mm boolits that had been sitting around for well over a year before being sized.

Those things were HARD. I could barely push one through a .357 sizing die. I sprayed the Aqua-Lube on them and they went though MUCH easier. If I had to guess I'd say a better than 50% less sizing effort.

[Ausglock]

That is OK as long as what you applied left adequate lube when dry.

Avenger
I will reply against your details in red .
If you ask Alan Esterly, he will provide you with updated mixing ratios using the Aqualube concentrates.
This is why we are doing load reduction tests to quantify the actual loads required, with and without using Aqualube to push it through. Hopefully we will get meaningful results that confirms lubricity of the Aqualube and what load reductions are achieved by using it.



Why you yelling????

[HI-TEK]

Why you yelling????



I just don't know how to use the edit system. I must have pressed wrong settings.
It seemed OK, but afterward obviously it was not ....

[Avenger442]

I just don't know how to use the edit system. I must have pressed wrong settings.
It seemed OK, but afterward obviously it was not ....

Don't worry Joe. No offense taken. I didn't even recognize it as yelling.

As to mixing, I'm looking for my instruction sheet which I followed to mix it. Recently rearrange a bunch of stuff and will have to find it.

Paint on non bonding mold release sample arrived from Alan and is mixed. Planning to cast some 9mm bullets today. Will try to remember to report back.

[Avenger442]

Allen asked me to review the paint on 500+ mold release. This is not the bonded release that Trevor has mentioned testing. It is what looks like a paint on version of this:

282891

Some of you probably have this spray on. The biggest advantage of the paint on would most likely be cost since it is a powder you mix with denatured alcohol yourself. Most of you who have been using Hi Tek coatings for a while will remember when it was a two part liquid instead of a powder. This is something like that being a powder cheaper to ship. The paint on is grey instead of the white spray.

I didn't do a long casting session. Just a little over 2 pounds of 112 grain and 12 400 grain. Both were hollow point bullets. The type molds I have the hardest time with. The 112 grain bullets are coming out of a 125 grain Lee mold modified with a sliding bar that has the hollow point pins mounted in it. It's a bugger to get the bullets to drop usually requiring a couple of sharp raps on the hing pin with my homemade wood mallet. The first 2 pounds came out fairly easy with no undue knocks on the hing pin. Then the sliding pins began to bind up. Not the mold release fault and I started to have to tap on the mold. Need to find a lube for those sliding pins. The second bullet is a 400 grain Lee single mold for my 45-70. It was manufactured by Lee with the hollow point pin. The bullets just dropped out of this one with the mold release. No tapping no rapping. Both molds are aluminum with steel pins.

To sum it up I would say the paint on version of 500+ mold release is at least as good as the spray on to use. Maybe just a little better since the application can be controlled better. The spray tends to get on areas where it is not needed. I'm a little messy and have had white finger tips after using it.

[Jatz357]

Hi all, been away from the forum for a while. Been busy making projectiles and machines.

Completed quite a few colour baking tests the last few days with my infrared oven using Hi-Tek Blue and Dark Green.

Previous tests I had completed with Candy Apple and a custom made bronze showed very little colour change or darkening with elevated temperatures and bake times.

I have now completed far more in depth tests with the Blue & Dark Green, so I have a better understanding how infrared affects Hi-Tek compared to convection ovens.

Overview of how my infrared oven works. It has two heat zones (stages) 1st stage I have the temp set very high at around 250 C. Measurements I have completed show the projectiles ramp up heat very quickly to around 190 C by the time they exit the 1st stage. Stage two is normally set to around 218 C and the projectiles have to travel twice the distance as stage 1. Stage 2 holds the temp for around 3 minutes.

I run the oven at these high temperatures because I was not having any colour change or burn issues. Coating cured well with short bake times and no adhesion problems. Normal oven transit time is around 5:30 minutes whilst the projectiles are under infrared rays for approximately 4:30. Very fast heat and cure time and high volume throughput.

What was discovered? I found that the blue and dark green did not change colour significantly when baked at higher temperatures. (one extreme test did darken the final colour. Some projectiles after the 2nd coat and bake were put straight back into the oven and were 120C+ when they went back in, these would have reached over 235C+ and have been held above 220C+ for the whole 5:35 of the bake cycle)

Tests were completed using my normal higher temperature fast heat and cure cycle and then reduced the temp and adjusted oven transit time so the coating was just reaching cure.

One test of the blue I confirmed the temperature did not exceed 195C. Both 1st & 2nd oven temp stages were reduced to 198C & 192C respectively. Temperature of the test was confirmed using a thermocouple inside a projectile. This test took 5:40 for the projectiles to reach 180C and then during the last 3 minutes reached a maximum of 195C (total bake time 8:40). The coating was only just cured, there was some colour rub off but the coating stayed attached. The final colour was ever so slightly lighter than the higher temp test.

See the image for colour comparison and an explanation at the bottom.

https://www.eminenceprojectiles.com.au/images/external/hi-tek_colour_test_2021-04.jpg

Just bumping this post as had a few requests about the Infrared oven colour testing.

[Ausglock]

Used the bonding release agent on the 124gn RN iron molds yesterday. These molds have a problem with poor fillout at the bevel base in certain spots if the temp isn't high enough. Normal cast temp is 690deg F but these need 730Deg F, and they can still have small imperfections at the base.

Applied the BRA with a tooth brush to the cavities and bottom of the sprueplate. waited for the alloy to get to 700 deg F. cast 6 rotations and dumped them back into the pot. this warmed the molds.. the bullets from the molds had perfect fillout and fell free as they should. I cast 6500 without stopping for any issues. All bullets were perfectly formed. Looking at the cavities after the molds cooled, the BRA was still in the cavities and ready for the next session.
Good job, Joe

[HI-TEK]

Used the bonding release agent on the 124gn RN iron molds yesterday. These molds have a problem with poor fill-out at the bevel base in certain spots if the temp isn't high enough. Normal cast temp is 690deg F but these need 730Deg F, and they can still have small imperfections at the base.

Applied the BRA with a tooth brush to the cavities and bottom of the sprue plate. waited for the alloy to get to 700 deg F. cast 6 rotations and dumped them back into the pot. this warmed the molds.. the bullets from the molds had perfect fillout and fell free as they should. I cast 6500 with stopping for any issues. All bullets were perfectly formed. Looking at the cavities after the molds cooled, the BRA was still in the cavities and ready for the next session.
Good job, Joe

Ausglock,
Thanks for your feed back and report. Much appreciated.
Historically, the original bonded version of the 500+ was designed, some 25-30 years ago to coat Glass molds internally, and glass went in to these molds at about 1300C. The original product was applied as an aerosol.
The Glass molds were spray coated with original 500+ internally before use , and were pre-baked at 500C to set and bond the release agent.

May be it should have been done many years ago, but until I had gotten more direct involved with casters and casting problems, I was not really aware of possible need for such a product by them, but aerosolized version was not practical as it was a dangerous goods and was prohibitive with transporting and high costs.
The other reason is, and concerns historically, that the original product was not suitable, and may reduce internal volume of molds, and produce under weight and under diameter casts.

I also had many asking me if I had a coating that protected molds from storage and corrosion, and also suitable for coating old corroded and pitted molds so that they can be used.

Recently I modified the original bonded glass release agent, and made it as a powder, so it may suit the needs. It now seems, that the modified bonded version works OK.
This is what you tested and reported on.

The powder, non bonded version, has been tested and used by a commercial caster here on badly corroded molds.

They worked all day without any issues on an auto caster without requiring re-application.

Before starting up each day, they apply the non bonded version with a brush as a touch up, inside and on surfaces of the molds where alloy would stick, and then they start production. They reported back that this treatment essentially eliminated having to stop and start production with molds that had spatter interfering with correct casting.
So far it has been a year and no problems at all. They were supplied a 50g Jar , and, after a year, they have more than half of it left.

[Tazza]

Looks like i'll be putting my hand up for some of your bonded release, i have just gotten hold of a few moulds that have pitting from bad storage, this may help with making them drop correctly again

[dikman]

My apologies if this offends some on here (for mentioning that "other" process :lol:) but earlier I mentioned I was building my own powder coating gun and Tazza expressed an interest. Well, it's finished and appears to work, I experimented with some laser printer powder that I have and successfully coated an old piece of stainless steel that I had lying around. I didn't bake it because I don't know the temperature/time requirements for it.
And no, I'm not interested in coating boolits, I'm more than happy with Hi-Tek for that. :D
https://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?209151-Powder-Coating-101-Electrostatic-Method&p=5190345#post5190345

[Tazza]

My apologies if this offends some on here (for mentioning that "other" process :lol:) but earlier I mentioned I was building my own powder coating gun and Tazza expressed an interest. Well, it's finished and appears to work, I experimented with some laser printer powder that I have and successfully coated an old piece of stainless steel that I had lying around. I didn't bake it because I don't know the temperature/time requirements for it.
And no, I'm not interested in coating boolits, I'm more than happy with Hi-Tek for that. :D
https://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?209151-Powder-Coating-101-Electrostatic-Method&p=5190345#post5190345

Nice work, Gotta love building things cheaply, i have been lucky and got parts to make my sizer for essentially nothing, it cost me a few universal joints, so about $50

[Ausglock]

My apologies if this offends some on here (for mentioning that "other" process :lol:) but earlier I mentioned I was building my own powder coating gun and Tazza expressed an interest. Well, it's finished and appears to work, I experimented with some laser printer powder that I have and successfully coated an old piece of stainless steel that I had lying around. I didn't bake it because I don't know the temperature/time requirements for it.
And no, I'm not interested in coating boolits, I'm more than happy with Hi-Tek for that. :D
https://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?209151-Powder-Coating-101-Electrostatic-Method&p=5190345#post5190345

Good job.

A mate here in town has a powdercoating Business.
Huge baking oven 30ft long, 12ft wide and 10ft high.
Same size coating tunnel.

[dikman]

That's........big!
I got the pointy end of the gun a bit close to the part I was coating and it arced across, scared the **** out of me!!!

[Tazza]

That's........big!
I got the pointy end of the gun a bit close to the part I was coating and it arced across, scared the **** out of me!!!

As long as you didn't get your paw too close to rattle your fillings, i think that would suck being hit with a few thousand volts.

Do you need to be that close to make the powder stick? and risk the arc?

[HI-TEK]

As long as you didn't get your paw too close to rattle your fillings, i think that would suck being hit with a few thousand volts.

Do you need to be that close to make the powder stick? and risk the arc?

I applaud individual innovative ideas and home made equipment.
However, I draw the line with me making electrical stuff, especially high voltage.
What is the voltage, that was home made machine?

My father was an electrician, and worked for many years in that trade, one day, he nearly got fried whilst cutting through a live 240 wire that he previously turned power off. Without his knowledge someone turned on the power, so they could use a drill. I saw the effects of a random accident. You don't get many second chances.

I have electric fences here, 7000 volts, to control livestock movement, it has belted me a few times over the years after accidentally touching it, I don't like the feeling of getting thrown backwards.

[Tazza]

I was lucky enough to learn about electricity when i was a kid, i'd like to think this gave me enough knowledge to respect it and not do stupid things that put me or anyone else in danger. I'm sure i do electrical work at home that technically i shouldn't, but i make sure it's all safe.

As for the high voltage generator he is using, i think are high voltage, high freequency devices, they aren't really dangerous as they have very low output current, doesn't mean they won't hurt like a sun of a...... Messing with high voltage and current like what is in a microwave oven is a recipe for disaster and potential death .

An electric fence energizer sure packs a punch, i have been bitten a fee times, none of them were fun at all....

[dikman]

I was a telecommunications technician for all my working life, starting with the PMG, and the training they gave us covered most things, including working with mains voltage. I have had an accidental jolt from 240v and also got a boot from inside a tv set - that hurt!! The fact I'm still here shows that the training was reasonably effective.:smile:
The high voltage module I used puts out 400Kv (max) but I'm running it at 4v input and current limited to 2.5 amps. It is designed for tasers. In the photos you will notice a switch in a piece of tube, this is a handheld switch that has to be held down to activate the high voltage. It's a minor nuisance but means I can cut off the voltage quickly if needed.

As for the arc, I just got a bit too close while trying to figure out the best way to use the thing.:roll:

[Avenger442]

I worked for the county government when I was younger. We helped assess property values. While looking at a property I needed to get to the barn. I was stepping over a low barbed wire fence and because of the high grass didn't see the cattle wire on the other side. Caught it right between the legs. Picture Energizer Bunny in reverse and a period of time lying on the ground.