simple Hi-Tek coating

[HI-TEK]

Avenger I sent a PM

[popper]

sludge that had built up in the bottom of my tumbling bowl. Just looked into my mix bottle (green) Ugh. Crusty/flaky dried out coating all around the lid and on the bottom that doesn't dissolve. Got some small #5 (good for acetone) pill bottles I'm going to try - mix just what I need, toss any unused. Does mean I need to cast a bunch before coating,as Ausglock points out - larger batches are easier to work with. Storage of mixed and clean containers appear to be my problem with failure.

[HI-TEK]

sludge that had built up in the bottom of my tumbling bowl. Just looked into my mix bottle (green) Ugh. Crusty/flaky dried out coating all around the lid and on the bottom that doesn't dissolve. Got some small #5 (good for acetone) pill bottles I'm going to try - mix just what I need, toss any unused. Does mean I need to cast a bunch before coating,as Ausglock points out - larger batches are easier to work with. Storage of mixed and clean containers appear to be my problem with failure.

Popper, the deposit built up on your coating bowl can be recycled.
It does take time for it to dissolve, so if you add solvent (Acetone or MEK) into containers and put on it a lid, leave to soak, majority should dissolve. Agitation occasionally will also help to mix in dried residues.
The beauty of this coating is, that until you bake it, it is reasonably stable. The only thing that may happen is that final re-dissolved mix may become darker that original brew.

[Ausglock]

I have been saving the acetone/coating I reclaim from the mix bucket. I strain it through coffee filter paper to catch any bits of lead etc etc.
Then use this to make up new coating mix. Mainly for doing Black as darkening doesn't matter.

[HI-TEK]

Here are my first 2 attempts, using Zombie green, the powder version, convection toaster oven, weigh and measured my coating and acetone so I should be spot on there, but I think my technique is off, the 9MM seems to get a good coverage, but very dark almost brown color, the 45's were more green, but pretty rough finish. Here are a couple pics, am I shaking too long or too much liquid with the bullets ? both sets got 2 coats.

Thanks, Fred

the 9MM (and a 45 after smash test)

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=157620&d=1452325959

the 45's


http://castboolits.gunloads.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=157619&d=1452325916


Several matters here.
1. Using too much solvent is not a problem. It simply applies a thinner coat. This will dry quickly.
2. If you continue to shake coat for too long, irrespective of dilution, after solvent evaporates, you will have a rough finish . Rough finish indicates shaking too long. 6 mls of mixture to about 250 bullets is OK, more dilute or not, 6 mls should be OK. 10-15 seconds to coat, then dump and dry thoroughly. Test cook a few only first to see how they turn out. If OK cook the rest
3. If you look at colours, you have some more green and some brown. This is possibly
a. cooking at much higher temperatures that set, and
b. mixture was not mixed well before you applied it to bullets to coat.
c. combination of both
4. The 45's, is more green, as you may have more metal weight inside oven, so it takes longer to get up to temperature to cook.
If you get variation in colour on same tray, it is also telling me that you have poor heat circulation, and possibly no fan inside oven to get even heat into alloy.

[dansedgli]

I tried my first batches of hitek today. Black cherry.

They passed the smash and acetone rub test but I'm getting some patchy coverage in the lube grooves and where the driving band meets the front part of the bullet. I assume because they don't contact the bucket when shaking.

Is this a problem? If yes how do I just need more coats? Im only doing 2 coats at the moment.

They sized fine so ill load them up tomorrow. They are my first casts so I'm pretty excited.

If these shoot ok I'm pretty happy with the hitek process. I followed the instructions and it was easy. Ill try to do more volume next. 4.5lbs of 45 acp isn't very much. I think i can get another tray in my oven.

First coat.

http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r3/dansedgli/Mobile%20Uploads/20161029_141650_zps1quycu0g.jpg (http://s140.photobucket.com/user/dansedgli/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20161029_141650_zps1quycu0g.jpg.html)

Final product.

http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r3/dansedgli/Mobile%20Uploads/20161029_205237_zpsxusmlyzz.jpg (http://s140.photobucket.com/user/dansedgli/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20161029_205237_zpsxusmlyzz.jpg.html)

[Hi-Performance Bullet Coatings]

Looks good.
Patchy coverage in the lube groove and where the driving band meets the front part of the bullet is normal for that style bullet. Color looks like it may be off a little in the last pic maybe in the oven too long?
Real test is in the shooting.

[dansedgli]

Thankyou for the feed back. Do you have a photo of what it should look like? I had it in there for 10 minutes preheated at 200 c.

[6bg6ga]

Where did you get that color?

[Ausglock]

could be the light, but Black Cherry is darker than that. Tested the lastest batch for the US last week.
Worked fine. I then put a coat of black over it...

[Hi-Performance Bullet Coatings]

Where did you get that color?


I have plenty in stock if your in the U.S.

[popper]

It does take time for it to dissolve The 'stuff' I got from under the cap of the mix (mustard)bottle. Kinda like the 'dust' problem in earlier post. Anything picked up when squirting to tumble jug never gets back to liquid. Storage/handling problem, not coating material. Just FYI.

[dansedgli]

could be the light, but Black Cherry is darker than that. Tested the lastest batch for the US last week.
Worked fine. I then put a coat of black over it...

This might be the same batch Trev. Did you do 2 coats or more.

[dansedgli]

Shot 100 rounds with no leading. Great groups at 15 and 25 yards. A++

[Ausglock]

This might be the same batch Trev. Did you do 2 coats or more.

2 coats.... always only 2 coats..
I'd post a photo, But having to go through photobucket is a PITA.
Photobucket is as slow as a wet week lately...
Why can't we just upload photos to here from our phones or PC's without a third party hosting site???

[dansedgli]

Thanks mate.

[marky123]

Hi all
Hi tek applied twice,smashed and stuck,acetone rub good
BUT,and its a big but,
I can scrape it off with my fingernail.
How so?
will it work?

[Ausglock]

thumbnails of steel...
How hard is your alloy?
Are you using REAL pure Acetone like UN No. 1090?
Is the alloy contaminated with anything.
I have coated 2 coats on pure lead and can not scrape it off. Sure, you can scrape the lead and coating off, but not the coating and not with a thumbnail.

Will it work?? Suck it and see...

[marky123]

The bullets are swaged,then tumbled to remove burrs.As for the alloy,it's range scrap...
I'll do a 3rd coat then test again.
Thanks
MARK

[17nut]

The bullets are swaged,then tumbled to remove burrs.As for the alloy,it's range scrap...
I'll do a 3rd coat then test again.
Thanks
MARK

And there's your problem!

[marky123]

Won't it work on swaged boolits?

[Ausglock]

Swaging uses some sort of lube? therein lies the problem.
Like trying to coat bullets that have previously been lubed. no matter how hard you try, ya can't get ALL the lube off.

[marky123]

Hi Trev
No lube is used to swage the bullets.
is it an alloy issue?I can't guess the % of lead in the wire.
MARK

[Ausglock]

The only other thing is that swaging is closing the "pores" of the alloy .

[Avenger442]

Hi all
Hi tek applied twice,smashed and stuck,acetone rub good
BUT,and its a big but,
I can scrape it off with my fingernail.
How so?
will it work?

Trevors right, load up a few shootem and see if they lead before you start melting down. My range scrap is usually a bit soft so you probably don't want to use full house loads.

I have hesitated to tell this experience because guys will start smashing bullets done two years ago to test them. I have a bunch of .308 bullets that I cast back when I first started using HiTek. They are coated three times with pretty thick coats. I was still thinking jacket instead of lube back then. At the time I coated them they passed the smash test completely. Not even a little dust. Now about two years later I had them out weighing some to try to make sure they were within the same range as some others I had cast and coated, about 160 grains. Some of them got loose and fell about four feet onto concrete. I noticed one looked like it had the coating knocked off so I smash tested a couple of them. You probably guessed but they failed. When I say they failed I'm talking about big flakes on the thin edge after smash. The part against the anvil and the part under the hammer were still stuck. I contacted Donnie to see if he had had this happen or if he had anyone tell him about it happening. He said he had not. So I decided to load them with the load that was producing 1 1/2 inch groups 100 yards with this bullet (41 gr H4895). There was no leading. It was a windy day but groups were still around 1 1/2 ". I'm thinking my coats were too thick and at some point became too brittle like glass???? May not have smashed them after last coat. Really don't know but not complaining.

According to what I have read on this blog sizing before coating, contaminate on the bullet and/or too thick a coating process are main cause coating turns loose from the bullet.

[marky123]

Ok will report back.I wonder if the tumbling is affecting the surface.

[dansedgli]

could be the light, but Black Cherry is darker than that. Tested the lastest batch for the US last week.
Worked fine. I then put a coat of black over it...

Here is a photo under natural light.

http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r3/dansedgli/Mobile%20Uploads/20161031_100514_zpsuadypmhf.jpg (http://s140.photobucket.com/user/dansedgli/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20161031_100514_zpsuadypmhf.jpg.html)

[Ausglock]

Looks good. But mine is darker. I'll do a photo.
later.

[Ausglock]

Black Cherry as tested 17th October.
http://i193.photobucket.com/albums/z222/glock40sw/20161019_201554.jpg (http://s193.photobucket.com/user/glock40sw/media/20161019_201554.jpg.html)

[Redwoode]

Tumbling shouldn't be an issue. I tumble all my casts briefly. Takes care of any minor mold flash. Leaves a nice surface for coating to bond with.

[Hi-Performance Bullet Coatings]

Trevor,
Black Cherry here is Joe's Red 122.
Thus the color difference.

[Avenger442]

Ok will report back.I wonder if the tumbling is affecting the surface.

I have tumbled some of my pistol bullets that were hollow points to take a small fin off the nose. It didn't seem to affect them. I'm guessing Trevor is right again and the swageing is like sizing before coating. A no no.

[JavelinaBlanco]

I tried my first batches of hitek today. Black cherry.

They passed the smash and acetone rub test but I'm getting some patchy coverage in the lube grooves and where the driving band meets the front part of the bullet. I assume because they don't contact the bucket when shaking.

Is this a problem? If yes how do I just need more coats? Im only doing 2 coats at the moment.

They sized fine so ill load them up tomorrow. They are my first casts so I'm pretty excited.

If these shoot ok I'm pretty happy with the hitek process. I followed the instructions and it was easy. Ill try to do more volume next. 4.5lbs of 45 acp isn't very much. I think i can get another tray in my oven.

First coat.



Final product.



Nice! I have had good luck with coated. Have fun!

[Ausglock]

Trevor,
Black Cherry here is Joe's Red 122.
Thus the color difference.

OK... that would explain it.
The 122 is a very nice colour. It's used here commercially by Black Widow Bullets
What do you think of the Kryptonite green?

[Hi-Performance Bullet Coatings]

I like the Kryptonite Green it is becoming one of my favorites. I have an upcoming PPC match and hope to use KG coated 124's in the match.

[marky123]

Good accuracy 179902 but some leading occurring

[Sam303]

Trevor,

Can you tell me how to get hold of Hi Tek Coatings people in Australia? I'm in Melbourne and want to begin casting bullets and using the Hi Tek Coatings.

Sam

[Ausglock]

Contact HITEK joe on here via PM.


Trevor,

Can you tell me how to get hold of Hi Tek Coatings people in Australia? I'm in Melbourne and want to begin casting bullets and using the Hi Tek Coatings.

Sam

[marky123]

Howdy
I did some hopefully meaningful testing of 100 hitek bullets and 100 pc bullets today.Both are sized to .358 and fired out of a G34.180199100 PC shots fired
180200100 hitek shots fired
How long does it take for the coats of Hitek to dry again?I'm doing something wrong here.

[marky123]

180201This is the acetone test,tumbled bullet is on the left
180202This is the smash test on a tumbled bullet
180203this is the smash test on the non tumbled bullets.

[Ausglock]

what do you mean by tumbled and non tumbled???

[marky123]

After swaging them,I rumbled them to lose the flashing.It tidied them up but we decided it made the hitek stick less.

[Ausglock]

If the coating is wiping off that much, it isn't baked correctly.
How many mls of coating are you applying to how many Kg of bullets?
how about tumbling in acetone and allow to dry prior to coating?
If the first coat is not "keyed" to the alloy, no other coats will fix this.
Try using 1/2 the amount of coating for your first coat.

Of course your barrel will look like that. you have poor coating.

I tumble flat base bullets prior to coating and have no issues.

[marky123]

Righto
I'll reduce the coatings and let them dry longer.
Will report!
MARK

[Ausglock]

answer the questions...

[marky123]

3 mls of 30g ZG/120mls Acetone per 125 125gn tc 358"

[Ausglock]

30gms to 120mls is a bit on the thick side.
30gms to 150mls is the same ratio as 20gms to 100mls.
3mls per 125 is correct.

[marky123]

Thanks,I'll skinny it out.
MARK

[Sam303]

Contact HITEK joe on here via PM.

Thanks Trevor.

Sam

[Ausglock]

Ok... everyone seems to be loosing their minds over flaking off of the coating during the hammer test. Below are some photos of reclaimed fired bullets from a commercial caster in OZ.
There were 125gn Conical 9mm bullets, coated with a gold metallic coating. I was given these to melt down as they were not accurate in the persons gun.

When I did the smash test on these bullets, the coating did flake off. But, being a bit of a sceptic, I decided to load them to 1400 fps in 38 Super for my compensated race gun.
Fired these on Sunday at steel targets at about 15 yards. have a look at the fired bullets.
http://i193.photobucket.com/albums/z222/glock40sw/Mobile%20Uploads/20161106_143918.jpg (http://s193.photobucket.com/user/glock40sw/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20161106_143918.jpg.html)

http://i193.photobucket.com/albums/z222/glock40sw/Mobile%20Uploads/20161106_143939.jpg (http://s193.photobucket.com/user/glock40sw/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20161106_143939.jpg.html)

http://i193.photobucket.com/albums/z222/glock40sw/Mobile%20Uploads/20161106_143945.jpg (http://s193.photobucket.com/user/glock40sw/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20161106_143945.jpg.html)

http://i193.photobucket.com/albums/z222/glock40sw/Mobile%20Uploads/20161106_143950.jpg (http://s193.photobucket.com/user/glock40sw/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20161106_143950.jpg.html)

What do you see??
Zero coating missing from the bearing surface of the bullets. Sure, the coating has flaked off where the bullet has expanded against the target. But other than that. perfect performance in the barrel of the gun. Zero leading and the bore is shiny clean. the Compensator is also clean with zero lead buildup.
So... don;t have a cow if you get a little flaking. load them and shoot them... you never know til you do.....

[ioon44]

I have shot a lot of coated bullets that did not pass the smash test with out any leading and my recovered bullets from a rubber mulch bullet trap looked like the ones in Ausglock's pictures.

Most of my smash test failures were due to trying to use 3 coats, I just stick with 2 coats and no problems.

[Avenger442]

After swaging them,I rumbled them to lose the flashing.It tidied them up but we decided it made the hitek stick less.

I thought that we decided the swaging might be the problem because sizing, which burnishes the lead and makes it slick, was one of the causes sited by Ausglock and Joe as a reason for the coating not sticking. I've never swaged bullets but have read the process and it seems that it might create the same problem.

The tumbling is not the problem. I tumble some of my pistol bullets in 44 mag; 45 auto to remove fins from casting and the coating bonds with the lead, all other things considered.

The tumbling might over come the problem of a slick surface??

[HI-TEK]

Most of my smash test failures were due to trying to use 3 coats, I just stick with 2 coats and no problems.

Hi ioon44,
What seems to be a stumbling block is, that the Hi-Tek coating should not require large volume build up on alloy, to perform and to separate bore from alloy..
If you chose 3 coats, it is OK, but then, I always suggest that to use much thinner/diluted coats each time, so you get beautiful finishes with three thin coats, that will also end up over all, a much thinner film than normal mix coats.
We have found over the years, that one blotchy uneven coat, well applied and baked, (which looks bad) will work in most applications.
The additional coats, simply adds to the the pleasing (cosmetic) effect of final finishes.
Using more diluted coats, will also reduce coating usage and coat more product. (did I just again advise using less coating??? LOL LOL)

Generally, "flaking", can be linked to inadequate first coat bonding, and, subsequent coats, will not repair, or fix, poorly bonded first coat, but extra coats simply highlight the adhesion problems with first coat..
First coat application and successful results, is key to best results thereafter.

[ioon44]

Hi Joe
Thanks for the info, the only time I do 3 coats now is with liquid Black mixed 10-1-5 and gives a good solid color.

I use the 100 ml/20 g mix with 2 coats and works great .

I may try doing 1 coat just to see how it will work in my guns, I guess 1 coat would be more sensitive to bore conditions.

I am doing Kryptonite green for the first time this week so far looks great and passes the test, hope to shoot some this weekend.

Getting the first completely dry is some thing I probably over do but I haven't had any bullets fail the test in a long time.

[AbitNutz]

I think Hi-Tek may be a bit more forgiving as to the mix and heat than I originally thought. I kinda went off script a bit and didn't seem to make a difference.

[PAT303]

I luv the stuff,shot 193 with 6 X bulls 100 prone with my swede mauser last week.The load was a CBE 150grn bore rider .267 as cast with two coats of Texas Tea,I then heat them again and water drop and leave for 2 weeks to harden and shoot over 23grns of 2206H in unsized cases.I've shot about 300 or more without cleaning,the bore is spotless and none of my dies are full of lube.All up couldn't be happier.

[HI-TEK]

[QUOTE=ioon44;3837592]Hi Joe
Thanks for the info, the only time I do 3 coats now is with liquid Black mixed 10-1-5 and gives a good solid color.

You would be very happy with the New Black K-15 powdered coating, under way to Donnie. Two coats are extremely good with coverage and performance.
It is soooo black, and slippery.
The new Black K-15 seems far better than liquid versions with Blackness colour.
It is intensely Black when compared to the liquid version.
Unfortunately I can't post pictures with coated alloy with K-15, as I dont know how, but Ausglock may be able to, as he has the pictures.

[Ausglock]

Black K-15 as requested

http://i193.photobucket.com/albums/z222/glock40sw/Mobile%20Uploads/20160914_194407_1.jpg (http://s193.photobucket.com/user/glock40sw/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20160914_194407_1.jpg.html)

http://i193.photobucket.com/albums/z222/glock40sw/Mobile%20Uploads/20160915_175243.jpg (http://s193.photobucket.com/user/glock40sw/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20160915_175243.jpg.html)

[HI-TEK]

Black K-15 as requested

http://i193.photobucket.com/albums/z222/glock40sw/Mobile%20Uploads/20160914_194407_1.jpg (http://s193.photobucket.com/user/glock40sw/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20160914_194407_1.jpg.html)

http://i193.photobucket.com/albums/z222/glock40sw/Mobile%20Uploads/20160915_175243.jpg (http://s193.photobucket.com/user/glock40sw/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20160915_175243.jpg.html)

THANK YOU. You are a wizard with posting photos.

[dansedgli]

Nice. Are all of these colors available to buy Joe or are some reserved for projectile companies?

[benellinut]

[QUOTE=ioon44;3837592]Hi Joe
Thanks for the info, the only time I do 3 coats now is with liquid Black mixed 10-1-5 and gives a good solid color.

You would be very happy with the New Black K-15 powdered coating, under way to Donnie. Two coats are extremely good with coverage and performance.
It is soooo black, and slippery.
The new Black K-15 seems far better than liquid versions with Blackness colour.
It is intensely Black when compared to the liquid version.
Unfortunately I can't post pictures with coated alloy with K-15, as I dont know how, but Ausglock may be able to, as he has the pictures.

So if someone want's the best performance the K-15 is what you'd put at the top of the list? Thank you sir!

[Grmps]

Donnie, do you have “Black K-15” yet? If so, are you calling it K-15 or ?

[HI-TEK]

Nice. Are all of these colors available to buy Joe or are some reserved for projectile companies?

This Black K-15 colour is fairly New. It is being evaluated by some manufacturers, and others, are waiting for their delivery to try it out..
At this stage, it is available to all users.

[Hi-Performance Bullet Coatings]

Donnie, do you have “Black K-15” yet? If so, are you calling it K-15 or ?

It is not here yet. I will label it Black K15. As soon as it arrives I will post it here.

[AbitNutz]

You all know it's a little weird that a bunch of guys are getting all giddy over color choices....

[bfuller14]

Now that is funny AbitNuts............

[Avenger442]

You all know it's a little weird that a bunch of guys are getting all giddy over color choices....

Yea! Kinda like a bunch of women at the Vera Bradley purse store. Got to have the latest pattern and color. But as we sometimes say here "whatever floats your boat".:bigsmyl2:

Pat 303
Why haven't I thought about that? Heat treat after the coating process. Great idea when you don't really care about the color change from over heating. I've got some 30 cal bullets that this could help with the accuracy. It has been lousy so far and I believe that it's because of the BHN.

This place has helped me in many ways. All those heads put together. Thanks guys.

[PAT303]

Avenger,the color of mine is Texas Tea but for some reason it dries milk chocolate color,heating it again to water drop changes it to dark chocolate,either way they work.The biggest issue I have is I bought 1 litre of it,thats good for 10's of thousands of boolits so if I want to change color it'll take a lot of shooting.Next time I'll order 500ml bottles,the kermit green and Black K15 look good to my eye.

[HI-TEK]

Avenger,the color of mine is Texas Tea but for some reason it dries milk chocolate color,heating it again to water drop changes it to dark chocolate,either way they work.
Next time I'll order 500ml bottles,the kermit green and Black K15 look good to my eye.

PAT 303,
The Texas Tea is a Black & Gold, so it should be a Chocolate type colour. Darkening with over cook is OK and does not detract from performance.
I have heard through the grapevine, that mixes of Texas Tea liquid, dosed/ blended with small additions of solvent mixtures made from K-15 powder, really blackens the Chocolate colour.
The final "blackness" ,will depend on amount of K-15 being added.
I have not seen any mixed colour results so I cannot comment.
What can become a problem with mixing colours, is trying to exactly reproduce each batch. Small changes really affect final colour.

[Avenger442]

The bullets I'm having a problem with are coated with a mixture of three colors that were left overs with a little acetone added. They have almost the green blue of the Dark Blue. It is really weird. When I coated some of the 44 hollow points with this mix the inside of the hollow point looks almost gold outside it's greenish blue. It worked OK as far as accuracy in the 44. May be wrong but I'm thinking the alloy I mixed for the 30 cal. bullets is too soft. Even though I used the same ratios, it measures about 1-2 BHN softer than what I have used. I will use your heat treat after coating idea and see if it helps. Otherwise I'll have to start load testing again or melt them down and use in the pistols. This bullet will shoot 1 1/2" groups in some of my other castings coated with Gold 1035.

I finally saved enough for the 45-70 Marlin I have been looking at. Going to start casting and coating for it as soon as I can get more money for molds and sizing. Shot twenty rounds of jacketed through it yesterday. Fifteen off of a lead sled and five off hand (didn't want to put a bruise on my shoulder). Was not impressive but with iron sights at 100 yards it shot groups good enough to hunt with. Maybe it will get better after break in.

[Ausglock]

Yellow like this? Some 12ga slugs I coated. notice the yellow down in the cavity. no coating got in there. I think it is the out gassing of the coating baking that give the yellow in the cavity as well as bullet lube grooves.

http://i193.photobucket.com/albums/z222/glock40sw/Mobile%20Uploads/20161006_202342_1.jpg (http://s193.photobucket.com/user/glock40sw/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20161006_202342_1.jpg.html)

[Grmps]

Thanks Donnie

[Grmps]

Yea! Kinda like a bunch of women at the Vera Bradley purse store. Got to have the latest pattern and color. But as we sometimes say here "whatever floats your boat".:bigsmyl2:

Pat 303
Why haven't I thought about that? Heat treat after the coating process. Great idea when you don't really care about the color change from over heating. I've got some 30 cal bullets that this could help with the accuracy. It has been lousy so far and I believe that it's because of the BHN.

This place has helped me in many ways. All those heads put together. Thanks guys.

Have you tried slugging the bore of your riffle, This could help accuracy

[Avenger442]

Have you tried slugging the bore of your riffle, This could help accuracy

Yes. Did that some time ago. This bullet in another casting and another coating does 1 1/2" groups. This is the same bullet but just a little softer with a different Hi Tek coating, see previous post.


Trevor
That is the color down in the hollow point.

[Ausglock]

yep.. thought so.

The glass door on my oven goes very dark brown from the out gassing during baking. I feel it is the same for hollowpoints etc.
Every month I have to use oven cleaner on the glass.

[Gremlin460]

yep.. thought so.

The glass door on my oven goes very dark brown from the out gassing during baking. I feel it is the same for hollowpoints etc.
Every month I have to use oven cleaner on the glass.

You are starting to sound domesticated..... Just saying..

[Ausglock]

masculated....but never domesticated......lol :roll:

[HI-TEK]

masculated....but never domesticated......lol :roll:


Not domesticated huh, look at photo...on facebook

[Ausglock]

Not domesticated huh, look at photo...on facebook

Shutup!!! I gotta clean the house before the missus comes home from her holiday in Fiji tomorrow

[Avenger442]

Shutup!!! I gotta clean the house before the missus comes home from her holiday in Fiji tomorrow

Know what you mean. I've been hearing the "Honey Do" list all week. She works 7 days and is off 7 days. So every other week I get the list. But we do it for them for two reasons. We love them and we really don't want to listen to it for a week. A man is not a real man unless he loves his wife.

Pat
Heat treated the bullets I had already coated and of course they went darker. Waiting now for 14 days to test BHN. They were 13-14 BHN to begin with and I'm looking for a 3 BHN increase.

I've been trying to read up on BHN and hunting. Haven't found very much help to determine what bullet is too hard to hunt with between 2000 fps and 2500 fps. Which is around what I'm pushing the .308. Anybody got any suggestions. Already looked at the hunting with cast section in this forum but probably have missed something. Any help with this?

[Gremlin460]

Anyone have experience with BT casts and hitech? I have a new mold I stole at a sharp price.
I have 2 options.. send it to CBE and have the LG and BT removed, or cast with it as is.

I have never used Boat Tailed casts before. Any opinions appreciated.

[Ausglock]

What Calibre?

[Gremlin460]

What Calibre?

Actually on further investigation its called a bevel base not a boat tail... its a .357 138gn RNBB for 9 or 38's.

[Ausglock]

who made it? got a photo?

[ioon44]

I Hi-Tek coat bevel base bullets a lot with out any problems and coat plain base also with great result's.

[Ausglock]

Bevel base is far easier to coat than flat base.
Most 99% of all my molds are bevel base.

[Avenger442]

Does anyone know what BHN is too hard to expand on game animal, mostly white tail deer, at 2300-2500 fps? While this forum is great for information, sometimes, that information is hard to find. I've been reading the Hunting section and most of the guys are only pushing bullets under 2000 fps with 50/50 WW/pure lead. Knowing that doesn't help me much for my application. If I have to do a 200 or 300 yard shot 1600-1800 fps out of the barrel will have a lot more drop to it.

I tested the heat treated bullets today and got them, what I would consider, too hard to hunt with. Was trying for the 16-17 BHN and got 19-20.

[marky123]

181954Howdy
I'm still grappling with ZG Hitek.Im on batch 9 and I still haven't applied it properly so I swapped the toaster oven for a convection oven and I think I might have overdone it.I presume bottom row is overdone,but is it time,temperature or both?Cooked at 200C for 12 minutes.
Thanks
MARK

[shortfal]

181954Howdy
I'm still grappling with ZG Hitek.Im on batch 9 and I still haven't applied it properly so I swapped the toaster oven for a convection oven and I think I might have overdone it.I presume bottom row is overdone,but is it time,temperature or both?Cooked at 200C for 12 minutes.
Thanks
MARK
I coat with HiTech but in black so I cannot comment on your color difference if that is in question but I do not think you can overcook. 10 Minutes or an hour at 400F Does not seem to matter for me. Your rough coating is likely from leaving your boolits in the container you are coating them in too long to where the coating is drying some before pouring out. I pour mine out when liquid is no longer visible in the bottom of the container and the sound of them ratteling around changes a bit. It takes some experience to know just the right amount of liquid to use for a given number of boolits.
Pete

[Ausglock]

Shaking far too long when coating.
6mls for 2.5KG of bullets is the amount of coating to use. Doesn't matter if they are 102gn 9mm or 230gn 45. all use 6mls to 2.5Kg of bullets.
Have you really, really verified the temp is 200Deg C? not with a cheap arsed $2 oven thermometer.
If you are sure the temp is OK, drop the time to 11 minutes and try that.
Only change 1 thing at a time or you will not know what was causing the problem.

[marky123]

If the lids on the bucket will it coat better?

[Ausglock]

no......

[dikman]

Marky, given that you only did it for 12 mins (I find 10 to be more than adequate) my first thought is that they're way overcooked, so your temp. is a bit suspect. This stuff is, within reason, fairly forgiving. As long as the temp is right then I've found there can be a bit of leeway with time (I haven't really noticed any difference in results whether using 10 mins or 12 mins) BUT the first coating is critical, it needs to be on the thin side.

[marky123]

I smelt burning electrical sheathing too

[Grmps]

I, like many have had the same problem. Inaccurate temperature gauge on small ovens. Like Trevor said, buy or borrow an oven thermometer BUT don't hang it from the front (the small convection ovens run a little colder at the door) put it in the center of the center rack. Note the oven reading when the thermometer reads between 385 - 400 degrees. [mine has a dial so I just marked it] Cool it and test it several times to make sure your right on. IF you have a dial , check it before each use (I know this from experience, things get bumped / moved and end up looking like yours :oops:). 9 to 12 min at the correct temperature didn't affect the color for me.

"If the lids on the bucket will it coat better?" the little buggers are jumping out on you eh? Don't swirl them so fast or get a taller bucket (mine have 6 inch sides and I only get an occasional escape.
"BUT the first coating is critical, it needs to be on the thin side." I use 1 mill less coating on the first run and it's been working for me.

the lumpy coating is from swirling / shaking to long . The sound starts to change -- dump them. The bottom of the bucket starts to dry -- dump them. It is better to dump them early while still a little wet than late and have them lumpy.

[Avenger442]

I haven't been too particular about the color on mine; until Joe comes up with a nice Auburn orange and blue to annoy the Alabama fans with; so I'm probably not the one to make comments on how to get the color right. Color has very little to do with the performance of the lubricant. I have found that even fairly expensive convection ovens $100-$200 range can be off as much as 50 degrees on the dial. That's Fahrenheit for all you down under guys. It seems that they were built for something other than cooking bullets and the chef really don't care????:mrgreen: Anyway a good in the oven thermometer will correct this. I used a cheap turkey fryer one for a year and it helped. I got talked into adding a PID to my oven which wasn't a bad idea and not very costly. But a PID and oven thermometer measure only one spot in the oven. Still use both. Even with convection temps can vary at different places in the oven. You could probably spend enough money to correct this. But I'm a very thrifty person. Some say cheap. Trevor's idea of pulling out the tray after six minutes shaking and possibly turning it around putting back in the oven for the rest of the twelve minutes is a good solution for helping control color. I've never used it but it makes sense.

If you are starting out suggest you use open tumble and try to hear the sound change. I have hearing loss and really can't hear the change. I would also add a little extra acetone or MEK which ever you are using to help keep the lumps down. I use a closed tumble bowl. It will help by giving you more time to tumble. And yes it does keep those little buggers from hopping out all over the place. It can help eliminate a rough finish because the acetone cannot flash off so quick. But it will create another problem if you tumble too long and put too thick first coat on. Which will cause flaking on smash test. I always mix a little thinner and dump them wet.

Bottom line is when you start out follow the instructions given with the mix, and your best listening to the folks that have done it the most Ausglock (Trevor), Joe and probably the guy selling you the mix. I buy from Donnie in Louisiana. They are all more than happy to help. I know because I've had to ask them to help me. Helping you is servicing a customer. Make sure of your oven's temperature. Because we are all working with different equipment and under different conditions adjust things and play around with your process after that. Load em up and shoot them cause that's not only how you can judge their performance but it's where the most fun is.

Some have not had the same experience in all calibers with the coating as I have had but thanks to you guys I've got 1-1 1/2 groups at 100 yards with a bullet I cast and coat myself. I don't need no store bought bullet. Woops! my cheap is showing again.:castmine:

[Ausglock]

I use both MEK and Acetone.
Mek is used as is for coating.
In Summer, I use 80mls of Acetone and 20 mls of denatured Alcohol to 20gms of powder. this slows down the flashoff and give extra swirling time to give a better coating.

[marky123]

Thanks for the replays guys

[marky123]

Yellow like this? Some 12ga slugs I coated. notice the yellow down in the cavity. no coating got in there. I think it is the out gassing of the coating baking that give the yellow in the cavity as well as bullet lube grooves.

http://i193.photobucket.com/albums/z222/glock40sw/Mobile%20Uploads/20161006_202342_1.jpg (http://s193.photobucket.com/user/glock40sw/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20161006_202342_1.jpg.html)
Hi Trevor
is this the correct shade of Zombie green?

[marky123]

sorry
is this more like the correct shade of ZG?

[marky123]

They're sat on the acetone test cloth which they passed,but there was a bit of flakiness from the hammer test.The coating would not scratch off with a fingernail so I'll 'pop some caps' and report back.
MARK

[Ausglock]

How many are you doing as 1 batch??
That is too dark and too much flaking.
The colour on the 12Ga slugs is Kryptonite green.

[marky123]

That was a 250 batch.Looks like I've got K green like your slugs not Z green182111
Back to the drawing board...

[dikman]

Looks to me like they're way overcooked.

[Hi-Performance Bullet Coatings]

To those have expressed interest in the new Black K15. Shipment has cleared US Customs and is due to arrive to me on the 12th of Dec.
It will be added to the website a couple of days before it arrives to me.

[BABore]

Does the K15 Black have any Metallics in it for higher pressure/velocity loading?

[Grmps]

see post #7808 (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?204174-simple-Hi-Tek-coating&p=3839167&viewfull=1#post3839167) in this thread

[Ausglock]

Does the K15 Black have any Metallics in it for higher pressure/velocity loading?
No. it doesn't have any metallic in it, But it is based on a new resin.
testing up to 1800fps has no problems.

[HI-TEK]

Does the K15 Black have any Metallics in it for higher pressure/velocity loading?


BABore,
No the Black K-15 has no Metallics. The Black coating, that contain Metallics, is the Texas Tea.
I have not had a request to include any Metallics into the K-15 as yet.
But I can produce such a version if demand is there.
May be it is the next project,,,,,,, as time permits.
Hi-Tek

[Hi-Performance Bullet Coatings]

Does the K15 Black have any Metallics in it for higher pressure/velocity loading?

I have the Black 1035 (Texas Tea) if you feel the need for the metallics.

[Avenger442]

I have the Black 1035 (Texas Tea) if you feel the need for the metallics.

I know I have asked this before but do you still have the liquid version of Gold 1035? Or can you get it?

[HI-TEK]

I know I have asked this before but do you still have the liquid version of Gold 1035? Or can you get it?

We can make that product.
The only reason solvent based became less popular is costs associated with freight as a dangerous goods flammable liquid. That made it an expensive product.
The Gold 1035 powder, is essentially the same product without solvents.
You need to ask Donnie at Hi-Performance Bullet Coatings if he has stocks of Gold 1035 liquid.. Currently, there is an impending shipment being prepared to go to the US. May be we can send a carton or two of the liquid, if Donnie has none.

[Ausglock]

I want a metallic black but with no gold in it. Silver will be fine. But no gold.
Joe????

[HI-TEK]

I want a metallic black but with no gold in it. Silver will be fine. But no gold.
Joe????


Your wish is my command...... starting ASAP. Silver is out, no can do, but I was thinking more a Pearl Black K-15.
That will give you a Pearlescent Black finish if I get it right. I might just stumble on a good recipe, who knows????

[Ausglock]

The Black Pearl??
I feel Like Captain Jack Sparrow

[Warhead]

To those have expressed interest in the new Black K15. Shipment has cleared US Customs and is due to arrive to me on the 12th of Dec.
It will be added to the website a couple of days before it arrives to me.

Awesomeness I will be getting some!!
And some more of the dark blue if you have any left?

[Hi-Performance Bullet Coatings]

I know I have asked this before but do you still have the liquid version of Gold 1035? Or can you get it?

Yes, I have liquid Gold 1035 in stock.

[ioon44]

I use both MEK and Acetone.
Mek is used as is for coating.
In Summer, I use 80mls of Acetone and 20 mls of denatured Alcohol to 20gms of powder. this slows down the flashoff and give extra swirling time to give a better coating.

I have not tried to do this, but if you swirl to long and the bullets are rough couldn't you add more Acetone and swirl to get the bullets smooth before dumping on the screen?

[kmrra]

Who Makes the beggist toaster oven, im looking to get into the Hi-Tech stuff

[ioon44]

You might want to shop some second hand appliance stores for a full size built in convection oven, I can bake 10 lbs of coated bullets at one time with the one I have.

[Ausglock]

I have not tried to do this, but if you swirl to long and the bullets are rough couldn't you add more Acetone and swirl to get the bullets smooth before dumping on the screen?
Yep. That would work.

[Avenger442]

When I think toaster oven I think non convection and you don't want one without a forced air convection system.

How much you want to spend? The usual two tray in the store brands are from $100-$300. For about $300 you can buy a Breville Convection oven at Bed Bath and Beyond. Before Ausglock started building his own he was suggesting this one. It's not just how big it is it is how well the convection fan circulates the air to prevent hot spots in the oven. That is if you have to have consistent color on the bullets. Uneven color, those darker ones that got hotter, will not affect the performance of the bullet. If you have lots of money you can buy a commercial unit from restaurant supply stores online for about $1000-3000 last time I looked. I appears that you could do about 20 lbs + of bullets in these ovens. There have been some who have suggested using the conveyor type convection ovens (think pizza oven). I would think that lbs. per bake session would be unlimited on one of those as long as you had the time. They are about the same price from restaurant supply. The commercial is probably the way to go if you need to bake thousands of bullets at a time. Or build your own from used oven and install a convection fan.

I use a Hamilton Beach oven model 31197. I paid about $100 online. It does a good but not excellent job with the convection. Power is supplied through a PID to help overcome some of the inconsistency in the controls on the oven. Also use an in the oven thermometer. And, at max, will cook 10 lbs. of bullets at one time. That stretches it's capacity. Usually only bake about 6-8 lbs at a time. That's divided onto two trays.

My first convection oven was a garage sale find. I paid about $15 as I remember. It was small would only do one tray and the convection fan didn't move a lot of air. Some inconsistent color throughout the tray. Bullets shot the same. In fact, some of my tightest groups were bullets baked in that oven. It went belly up after a little over a year of use. Elements still worked but weight of bullets resting on tray slides spread them out so tray would fall and door would not stay shut.

[kmrra]

Yea I will get a convection oven for sure , I have been looking at the Hamilton Beach , just thought I would get a few Ideas of what some of you are using.

[HI-TEK]

Yea I will get a convection oven for sure , I have been looking at the Hamilton Beach , just thought I would get a few Ideas of what some of you are using.

If you look around, you may find a second hand domestic free standing stove/oven. Often they are simply thrown out when people upgrade to a new one.
With simple low cost modifications, like PID control of heating element, they are ideal, especially if they are fan forced types.

[wlkjr]

Yea I will get a convection oven for sure , I have been looking at the Hamilton Beach , just thought I would get a few Ideas of what some of you are using.

I bought the Black & Decker big convection oven at WalMart for $60. I've found that turning the dial to Stay On and temp control to maximum does the trick for me. I also put 2 8" round steel plates on the aluminum tray on the bottom slot. Preheating the oven for about 20 minutes allows the plates to heat up and retain heat for a longer time.
Today I cooked 4 trays of 300 .45 233 grain coated in Black. Thats 10lbs. For the .45's I usually cook about 14 minutes. I put a tray on top of the oven during the rotation of the 4 trays. I measured the temps of the preheated boolits at around 150 degrees F. At the 7 minute mark, I quickly open the door and shake the tray for about 2 seconds. The temp at 7 minutes is about 360F. At the 14 minute mark the boolits are about 400-410F.
For 95grain .380 boolits I cook about 10-12 minutes. I have found that two coats work just as well as the previous three coats that I was doing.
Today I spent 3 hours cooking 1200 boolits and sizing all 1200. After the first tray was cooked twice I placed it under a box fan turned horizontally and cooled for about 10-12 minutes. They are cold by that point and ready to be sized. I can size 300 in about 15 minutes. I bought a bottle of the sizing from Donnie at HiPerfromance Coatings and it works really well.
For coating the boolits, I use a Glad 3L container and about 10# of boolits. I also snap the lid shut and swirl vigorously for about 30 seconds then remove the lid and continue swirling for another 30 seconds. This gives me the best coverage and the last 30 seconds with the lid off really gives good color.
After some experimentation, I've found this process to work really well for me.

[marky123]

Howdy
Still trying.The powdered hitek doesn't need a catalyst does it?
MARK

[HI-TEK]

Howdy
Still trying.The powdered hitek doesn't need a catalyst does it?
MARK


The powdered Hi-Tek is a total package. Once it is mixed with solvent, it is ready for use.

[marky123]

Hi Joe
I'm using standard acetone.Trevor mentioned using denatured alcohol as an agent to retard drying when coating,I'm going to try some off the shelf meths,the purple stuff. 'Digger' brand,how apt.
MARK

[HI-TEK]

Hi Joe
I'm using standard acetone.Trevor mentioned using denatured alcohol as an agent to retard drying when coating,I'm going to try some off the shelf meths,the purple stuff. 'Digger' brand,how apt.
MARK

Trevor is correct. Using about 20% denatured alcohol to 80% Acetone, will certainly help with slowing down drying.
Normal off the shelf Denatured alcohol will do.
Please do not use any "blends" of solvents containing Acetone, they simply do not work.

[marky123]

Does the age of the boolits have an effect on the coating?I have resorted to casting and attempted to coat as soon as the bullets were cool enough to handle,is this too soon?
MARK

[wlkjr]

Does the age of the boolits have an effect on the coating?I have resorted to casting and attempted to coat as soon as the bullets were cool enough to handle,is this too soon?
MARK
Not in my experience. I do sometimes put them in a plastic coffee can and pour a little acetone in and shake and drain to do a light wash. That will wash off any contaminates they might have picked up. Doesn't really matter when you coat them as long as they are cool.

[Avenger442]

That's right in my experience, too. Anytime after they are cool. Coat them and wait till dry ( sometimes I wait a day on the first coat). Then cook them. Cool coat.....

[wlkjr]

Mine are ready to cook in about 10 minutes.

[marky123]

Ok thanks.Can you scratch off the coating with your fingernails?Even after 3 coats?

[Hi-Performance Bullet Coatings]

I have new Black K15 in stock and ready to deliver. It is very, very black.
I also have some Bronze 502, a slightly darker version of the Bronze 500.
It's available on the website www.hi-performancebulletcoatings.com if you hover over the colored squares that depict the colors it will identify the color by name.

[wlkjr]

Ok thanks.Can you scratch off the coating with your fingernails?Even after 3 coats?
Shouldn't be able to if it's done correctly. I cut back from 3 to 2 coats and notice no difference in performance. I really like this stuff.

[HI-TEK]

Shouldn't be able to if it's done correctly. I cut back from 3 to 2 coats and notice no difference in performance. I really like this stuff.

I am glad you are happy with the coating.
With performance, originally some tests were done with one coat and two coats. Aside from first coat being not pretty, results seem to have been OK.
This conclusion was reached with well prepared and baked coat with known alloy mix and hardness.
Once coating has bonded well and baked adequately, the film should separate barrel from alloy.
When you get into alloys with unknown hardness and composition, we have not had a chance to do any single versus two coat performances using that same alloy.
In theory, and based on feed back results obtained by users, in some applications, a single well applied coat may work. Appearance would be not pretty, and for some, appearances are of paramount importance as well as coating working in their applications.
It is great that users do their own playing and pushing the boundary limits of the coatings. Best thing is, that results are also published for all to see and apply to their own applications.
Thanks much

[wlkjr]

The barrel of my Glocks .45acp seem to be really clean but the barrels of my .380acp and 9mm Glock barrels seem to have some kind of grainy residue that is difficult to remove. I don't know if this is some kind of lead or what. I have a Lewis lead remover from Brownells on the way. I have used a Bore Snake but still see this grainy appearance. It does not seem to build up but the barrel is not clean and shiny like one pass of a brush through the barrel of the .45acp. It's a mystery I have not solved yet.

[wlkjr]

182666
This a picture of a cleaned G42 barrel. Not sure you can tell much by the picture.

[HI-TEK]

The barrel of my Glocks .45acp seem to be really clean but the barrels of my .380acp and 9mm Glock barrels seem to have some kind of grainy residue that is difficult to remove. I don't know if this is some kind of lead or what. I have a Lewis lead remover from Brownells on the way. I have used a Bore Snake but still see this grainy appearance. It does not seem to build up but the barrel is not clean and shiny like one pass of a brush through the barrel of the .45acp. It's a mystery I have not solved yet.

My guess is, (only a guess at this stage), it may be possible, that you may have put through baked coated alloy, that may not have been fully cured. This can produce some residue inside barrel with coating depositing onto surfaces. The heat from powder burn, will set the coating, then it is very difficult to remove from surfaces where coating has bonded. Most cleaners will not touch nor remove baked on deposits. I have covered this aspect previously. The only thing that will remove baked on coating is a product called NMP,
(N-Methyl Pyrrolidone).
It is used neat, on dry surfaces, and slight warming. It is slow to remove baked on coating, but it works. Then simply wash off with Water thoroughly, dry and all is well.
The NMP will damage all synthetic surfaces/materials, so don't spill it. If you spill it, simply wash with water ASAP, and rinse off well to remove it.

[Grmps]

The barrel of my Glocks .45acp seem to be really clean but the barrels of my .380acp and 9mm Glock barrels seem to have some kind of grainy residue that is difficult to remove. I don't know if this is some kind of lead or what. I have a Lewis lead remover from Brownells on the way. I have used a Bore Snake but still see this grainy appearance. It does not seem to build up but the barrel is not clean and shiny like one pass of a brush through the barrel of the .45acp. It's a mystery I have not solved yet.


swirl vigorously for about 30 seconds then remove the lid and continue swirling for another 30 seconds.[/B] This gives me the best coverage and the last 30 seconds with the lid off really gives good color.
After some experimentation, I've found this process to work really well for me.

I believe the reason your bullets are leaving "grainy residue" is your swirling them to long. 15 - 20 seconds is all you should swirl that is when the liquid starts drying up and the swirling sound changes. When baked the bullets should be perfectly smooth. My guess is that you have grainy bullets. When I saw the post where you said you swirl for 30 + 30 --- 60 seconds I would imagine the bullets would clump. I was waiting for Trevor or Joe to say something cause I'm relatively new at this . Trevor is the coating tester for Hi-Tek and Joe is the chemist that creates the coatings.
Here are the coating instructions for Hi-Tek from Donnie's site http://hi-performancebulletcoatings.com/coating-instructions/ . Let us know if this helps

Cheers
Jim

[HI-TEK]

I believe the reason your bullets are leaving "grainy residue" is your swirling them to long. 15 - 20 seconds is all you should swirl that is when the liquid starts drying up and the swirling sound changes. When baked the bullets should be perfectly smooth. My guess is that you have grainy bullets. When I saw the post where you said you swirl for 30 + 30 --- 60 seconds I would imagine the bullets would clump. I was waiting for Trevor or Joe to say something cause I'm relatively new at this . Trevor is the coating tester for Hi-Tek and Joe is the chemist that creates the coatings.
Here are the coating instructions for Hi-Tek from Donnie's site http://hi-performancebulletcoatings.com/coating-instructions/ . Let us know if this helps

Cheers
Jim

Yes Jim, that is another consideration.
Over doing the coating for too long will produce rough looking finishes. If these are baked after drying, the roughness will stay. Over use of coating with combination of long coating times during tumbling will also introduce more problems.
1. With thick coating, drying may be difficult and incomplete, causing cooking and coating adhesion problems and rough finishes, not to mention possibility of projectiles welding together.
2. When sizing, the roughness is removed, but final finish looks like Orange Peel.
3. If coating application (especially first coat) is too thick, baking can cause bubbling/blistering type finishes.
4. Sizing these blistered coatings will produce dust as sizing simply shaves off rough raised blister surfaces.
5. If incomplete baking is also done, the coating off the cast will bond to barrel with heat produced from powder burn.
6. In theory, if you shoot well baked projectiles through barrels, that may have small amount of stain film of bonded coating on barrel, the new shot projectiles will or should remove deposits.
I would be pleased to receive more feed back.

[wlkjr]

Actually, all of my bullets are nice and slick after cooking. Even after swirling they look really good, no rough or grainy appearance. I use the same method for all three calibers, but only the barrel of the .45 is shiny after a couple of passes with a brush. I use Titegroup on 9mm, W231 for .380acp and Bullseye for the .45acp. And I don't load to maximum, rather at the lower end of the scale. I'll keep trying to remove it but it doesn't seem to be causing a problem at this stage. I've probably shot at least 5000 rounds through the G42 and at least 10k in my G26. I used Extreme plated before I changed over to Bayou Bullets and have been using my own castings since the first of the year. Never noticed any grainy appearance with the plated bullets.

[wlkjr]

These are some pictures of my boolits after two coats.
182692
182693
182694

[flyingrhino]

I know I'm preaching to the choir in this thread but I REALLY like the Hi-Tek powdered coating. I've been PC'ing, and with great results, but it is messier and more time consuming for me. PC'ing my boolits is the least favorite part of my reloading process. I've shot some of these Hi-Tek coated through my suppressor in 300 BO and have NO leading so I'm now a convert. I've not run them through my pistols yet but I've got a bunch loaded up to try. Great stuff!

[marky123]

These are some pictures of my boolits after two coats.
182692Kryptonite green?
182693
182694
are the first ones kryptonite green?

[wlkjr]

Those are Kryptonite Green, Black, and Bronze 500

[Grmps]

Trying to trouble shoot the problem; You said "turning the dial to Stay On and temp control to maximum does the trick for me" you didn't mention turning the convection on. I believe The hi-tek is designed to be cooked between 385 and 400 degrees. Temperature gauges on practically all counter-top ovens are off. I would suggest putting an oven thermometer in the middle of the center rack and determine what you oven is set at for the thermometer to read 400 degrees.[ I have a dial gauge so I just marked the dial where 400 is, mine way over 25* off] if you have a digital gauge then note the temp setting down. Try cooking at that temperature for the times you are using. Your steel disks to retain heat may be affecting the air flow for the convection. Are you cooking the bullets on a screen / wire mesh or a solid tray? Have you been doing the wipe and smash test after the bullets have cooled after your final coat to determine if the coating has set properly?
hopefully one of these suggestions will alleviate your barrel debris.

[wlkjr]

Grmps, I do have the convection on and a thermometer hanging between the two upper elements. I also read the temps with a quality infared thermometer. I'm cooking on a 1/4" mesh wire rack so I have plenty of air movement. All the boolits pass the wipe and smash tests after each coating. If I set the control to less than max I can't maintain optimum temperature. Each coat is thin and dried well. At the end of my cooking cycle the boolits read 400 degrees.

[Grmps]

If you look around, you may find a second hand domestic free standing stove/oven. Often they are simply thrown out when people upgrade to a new one.
With simple low cost modifications, like PID control of heating element, they are ideal, especially if they are fan forced types.

G'Day Joe
How much does a PID controller setup cost down under? You are talking: PID, SSR and K-type thermocouple? Mains voltage in Australia is 230V 50Hz, USA and Canada use 100/120V 50/60Hz.

[Ausglock]

REX C100 PID with 40amp SSR and 150mm K sensor on ebay for like $30Aud.
Cheap. easy to setup and wire up.

[Gremlin460]

If you pick up a old wall oven they also have a griller in them, steal that element and fit into the bottom of the oven and run BOTH elements.
Hi speed heat recovery is preferred. When the PID decides your oven is below temp, you don't want it to take a long time back to 200.
Wall ovens are extra insulated, because the are designed to go INTO wood enclosures.
On the first day I used 3 trays of uncoated casts, set the PID to self-learn. Then cycled the 3 trays one at a time, until the PID got its act together.
This way I had no under or over cooked casts that needed remelting while the PID set its parameters.

Metal blocks, clay pavers or anything that absorbs heat, and releases heat also acts like a temperature stabilizer. And is free.

All hints and tips that allow you to turn out successful, repeatable, consistent results.

Mike.

[dikman]

G'Day Joe
How much does a PID controller setup cost down under? You are talking: PID, SSR and K-type thermocouple? Mains voltage in Australia is 230V 50Hz, USA and Canada use 100/120V 50/60Hz.

The Rex C100 is the cheapest PID available (prices go up from there, depending on the make) but is perfectly adequate. All of the PIDs I've seen on ebay will operate from 100v to over 240v so no problems using them here. Some Rex C100's only have a relay output, you need one that will operate an SSR, however it's easy to do what I did - I opened it up, desoldered the internal relay, replaced it with wire links and it now operates an SSR with no problems.

There are plenty of posts about building them under the Casting Equipment section of the forum.

[Hi-Performance Bullet Coatings]

I posted new pics on my website www.hi-performancebulletcoatings.com (http://www.hi-performancebulletcoatings.com/)
If you go the color chart and click on a color square it will pull up a picture of bullets we coated in that color including the new Black K15 and Bronze 502
Zombie Green is only color missing at this point.

[Frank38]

Can somebody steer me in the right direction as I am trying to find Hi-Tek in Australia

[HI-TEK]

Can somebody steer me in the right direction as I am trying to find Hi-Tek in Australia

Why don't you send a PM . If you also supply a PM please supply a phone and email number
Thanks

[Scorpius]

really eager to try this, now that I've cast a few. PC was the entire reason I even considered casting. So I have a few questions before I place an order. I read about 100 of these 400 pages (phew my eyes hurt). Which is better / which may mean easier / better results. The powder or liquid option?
Seems more colors for the powder. How many bullets with I get covered with 3.5 oz vs 7oz?
Got any sea/sky blue for the wife? or other colors not shown on the site?

[HI-TEK]

really eager to try this, now that I've cast a few. PC was the entire reason I even considered casting. So I have a few questions before I place an order. I read about 100 of these 400 pages (phew my eyes hurt). Which is better / which may mean easier / better results. The powder or liquid option?
Seems more colors for the powder. How many bullets with I get covered with 3.5 oz vs 7oz?
Got any sea/sky blue for the wife? or other colors not shown on the site?

First, please forget any shades of Blue with Hi-Tek coatings, liquid or powdered versions.
Liquids are same coatings as powders, but liquids are solvent based coatings in a two pack system, and powders are required to be mixed with solvent by user before using them..
PLEASE NOTE, Hi-Tek powders are not for powder coating. All Hi-Tek powders require solubilising in solvent prior application uses.
Coverage, (I can quote you metric details) 500g of powder, used as two coats, should coat about 40,000 to 50,000 and will depend on user.

[Scorpius]

First, please forget any shades of Blue with Hi-Tek coatings, liquid or powdered versions.
Liquids are same coatings as powders, but liquids are solvent based coatings in a two pack system, and powders are required to be mixed with solvent by user before using them..
PLEASE NOTE, Hi-Tek powders are not for powder coating. All Hi-Tek powders require solubilising in solvent prior application uses.
Coverage, (I can quote you metric details) 500g of powder, used as two coats, should coat about 40,000 to 50,000 and will depend on user.

Wow...roughly 9k from the 3.5 oz powder. Nice....


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[wlkjr]

Wow...roughly 9k from the 3.5 oz powder. Nice....


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I coated 1200 .45acp 230gr with two coats and only used 1 tablespoon of powder to 55-60ml of acetone. There was about a fifth of the mixture left. A little goes a long way. My first order was the 7oz. size of a couple of powders, whereas the next order was the 3.5oz size. I think you may get at least 15-20K on a 3.5oz bottle. The powder is really easy.

[Scorpius]

probably more than i'll ever need :???: but just ordered my Zombie Green and the Gun Metal. Can't wait to try this out. Tomorrow i'll probably go cast some in preparation. Need to find a cheapo toaster oven now and make a screen for it.

[HI-TEK]

probably more than i'll ever need :???: but just ordered my Zombie Green and the Gun Metal. Can't wait to try this out. Tomorrow i'll probably go cast some in preparation. Need to find a cheapo toaster oven now and make a screen for it.


LOL LOL ,..... now, the coating addiction begins.....The trouble is, once you have coated all your casts, you the have to cast again, and again. Them go out shoot them all, and start again. It is fun....

[Scorpius]

LOL LOL ,..... now, the coating addiction begins.....The trouble is, once you have coated all your casts, you the have to cast again, and again. Them go out shoot them all, and start again. It is fun....

Yea well.....who knew back in about 2010 my simple memory of the smell of the m16 and so I wanted an AR would turn into collecting Ww2 rifles which I was very versed on for my age as a child , which lead to reloading since it's cheaper (yea so then faster with giraud yaddi yadda) which led to buy it if its crazy stupid cheap even if I don't need it just for trade. Which has lead to smelting 130 lbs of Coww and some range lead recently my first cast and now this......wasn't this all for cost savings?
Seems more like an investment at this point. lol I'll never shoot it all, well maybe if I stop buying once I retire :-)


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[Ausglock]

When you mix the powder with the acetone, let it stand for about 1/2 hour with a few shakes over that time. helps the reaction.
When you first mix, you can feel it get warm as the reaction takes place.

Remember....6mls to 2.5Kg of alloy. Doesn't matter if you are coating .22 or .45 bullets. always use weight of alloy, not number of bullets.
Also...FFS please don't try and coat 10 or 20 bullets and then cry cause it doesn't work.
Minimum to coat and bake is 2.5Kg...

[Scorpius]

When you mix the powder with the acetone, let it stand for about 1/2 hour with a few shakes over that time. helps the reaction.
When you first mix, you can feel it get warm as the reaction takes place.

Remember....6mls to 2.5Kg of alloy. Doesn't matter if you are coating .22 or .45 bullets. always use weight of alloy, not number of bullets.
Also...FFS please don't try and coat 10 or 20 bullets and then cry cause it doesn't work.
Minimum to coat and bake is 2.5Kg...

2 oz to 5 1/2 pounds. Got it. Can't wait to try this out.

I use mostly 2 cavity so I'll cast for several calibers at once and make sure to make that much :-)


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[Avenger442]

Scorpius

Just like you one of the reasons I got into casting was it was cheaper. But the more I cast the more I shoot so it probably is not as much as I had calculated at first. I have also started the addiction Joe mentioned and it's not just the casting for guns. I have now started buying guns so I can cast another caliber. And then there is making black powder and the black powder cartridge, which I never had an interest in before. And the rabbit hole gets deeper.

You said you were doing several calibers what are they?

[Scorpius]

Scorpius

Just like you one of the reasons I got into casting was it was cheaper. But the more I cast the more I shoot so it probably is not as much as I had calculated at first. I have also started the addiction Joe mentioned and it's not just the casting for guns. I have now started buying guns so I can cast another caliber. And then there is making black powder and the black powder cartridge, which I never had an interest in before. And the rabbit hole gets deeper.

You said you were doing several calibers what are they?

For casting so far molds for 7.62x54r,x39, 303 Brit, .32 acp, 8mm and 30 carbine. (Only casted for the last two so far but have molds for the others)

As for reloading don't cast for these yet. 9 and 10mm, 30-30, 223/556, 270, 308, 30-06, 7.5x55 Swiss, 7.35 carcano.

And I haven't hit black powder yet, but I'm sure it'll come. I've fondled a few powders before just don't have any need for it yet. Would be cool to have something like a flintlock rifle though.


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[Avenger442]

Scorpius

Yeah, I never intended to get into it. But I ended up with a couple of black powder rifles by some buying and trading. Still, I was going to sell them and someone got me interested in making my own black powder.......... and on it goes. Hitek coated .44s have worked good in the 44 mag cases with the black powder.

Didn't you say you have been doing some PC? So you already have the convection oven you have been using for it, right? So all you need is the powder, some acetone, couple of bowls to tumble in (one for each color), I use Cool Whip bowls, and some screens to dry on and bake.

Your going to love this stuff. Small learning curve. I think pistols are a little easier to work with than rifle. But I've only tried 38, 45 and 44. I cast mostly .308 and .44 for rifle. Have shot a few .223 with no problem. And do have some .303 cast and coated but have never loaded any. My sporterized WW II .303 Enfield has the typical case stretch problem. So have not tried to reloaded them. I'm about to start casting and coating for the 45-70. Ahhh sweet addiction. :Fire::Fire::Fire:


Joe

I forgot, does the Gun Metal have the metal particles in it? If it does it will be good for the high pressure stuff.

[Scorpius]

Scorpius

Yeah, I never intended to get into it. But I ended up with a couple of black powder rifles by some buying and trading. Still, I was going to sell them and someone got me interested in making my own black powder.......... and on it goes. Hitek coated .44s have worked good in the 44 mag cases with the black powder.

Didn't you say you have been doing some PC? So you already have the convection oven you have been using for it, right? So all you need is the powder, some acetone, couple of bowls to tumble in (one for each color), I use Cool Whip bowls, and some screens to dry on and bake.

Your going to love this stuff. Small learning curve. I think pistols are a little easier to work with than rifle. But I've only tried 38, 45 and 44. I cast mostly .308 and .44 for rifle. Have shot a few .223 with no problem. And do have some .303 cast and coated but have never loaded any. My sporterized WW II .303 Enfield has the typical case stretch problem. So have not tried to reloaded them. I'm about to start casting and coating for the 45-70. Ahhh sweet addiction. :Fire::Fire::Fire:


Joe

I forgot, does the Gun Metal have the metal particles in it? If it does it will be good for the high pressure stuff.

Nah have to pick up an oven and make a screen. And I'm casting mostly for rifle. Have my first cast loaded this past weekend and need to hit range. Probably next day or two I'm going to make more so I have something to PC.


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[HI-TEK]

I forgot, does the Gun Metal have the metal particles in it? If it does it will be good for the high pressure stuff.[/QUOTE]

Scorpius
Yes, the Gunmetal has what you require. So does the Texas Tea, and, they are both very dark after bake at 200C. If you under bake Gunmetal, it is a dark green colour.
I am also looking at a new Black, and aiming at a Black Pearl type finish.
I am hoping to get materials here in next week or so. In quiet time, I hope to get some work done.
There are also a couple of new hush hush colours in the development stages as well.
I will not say until I get some positive results.

[HI-TEK]

Probably next day or two I'm going to make more so I have something to PC.???????


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PC???? That is a bad word ...lol...lol

[Ausglock]

Hush hush colours???
Hahaha....I need a nice bright Yellow, not gold.
A sky blue and a bright pink.
A nice Jacaranda purple would be good too..
Go on... get to work...

[Avenger442]

And when is my Auburn orange and blue going to be here? LOL.

Scorpius
The metallic colors will stand up to a higher pressure. So, if your going to shoot medium to full bore jacketed loads in your rifle, I would suggest you coat them with the Gun Metal. I'm not sure about the Zombie Green. I haven't used it yet. But have shot the Gun Metal with three coats in my .308 at jacketed speeds with no leading.

[Gremlin460]

Hush hush colours???
Hahaha....I need a nice bright Yellow, not gold.
A sky blue and a bright pink.
A nice Jacaranda purple would be good too..
Go on... get to work...

Only after I get my Scottish Tartan coating, Joe promised, OR he was gonna send both you and I a bottle of Red Label for Xmas...

[Ausglock]

Sweet. When am I likely to get mine?? You got yours??

[HI-TEK]

Sweet. When am I likely to get mine?? You got yours??

You and Gremlin have high hopes. I drank all liquids I have available. I need it to soothe my nerves for this holiday break. (that is after I send out dozens of orders I have, and before Christmas, if I am not too under the weather LOL LOL)

[Southern Son]

Hush hush colours???
Hahaha....I need a nice bright Yellow, not gold.
A sky blue and a bright pink.
A nice Jacaranda purple would be good too..
Go on... get to work...

Dude,
Anyone be trippin' on your shooting range be having a goooooooood trip.

[SAndy37]

Merry Christmas All.
I'm a commerial ammunition manufacturer and I have the following comments to add:
We test a LOT of new products, with a stern eye on repeat consistancy and succesful product outcome. We imported some Hi Tek to try about 8 months ago and put it in our R&D cycle (which means I as the owner got to fiddle and test it)
IF you follow some simple rules, this stuff works, EVERY time, but dont deviate from the rules.
(We have only tested 9mmP and 357SIG properly, but the 357 SIG is a overpressure load and should replicate any hot handgun load out there- We did some specialised brass mono bullets in rifle calibers with very good results too, but thats another story)
First, Lead- know what you are working with, scrap lead wont always work, if its too soft it will lead- no matter what you do to it. Foundry lead FTW!
Clean your cast lead- this is important- and is underemphasised in this thread.Any contaminants on the raw bullets will wreak your efforts. We currently use a dishwasher for best effect but are moving to a solution of Caustic at 80 deg C for 20 minutes and then a HCL bath for 5 minutes. That may be overkill, but we cant afford failures.
As Trevor has said, get your mix of solvent and powder right, and make sure it gets time to react- at least an hour, with regular agitation.
Allow enough time for the stuff to dry, 10 minutes wont always work unless you are in the desert.
Dont overagitate or underagitate the coating process. Swirl hard until you hear the acetone/ MEK has almost evaporated and then dump out.
Use decent racks for drying/ baking. Air flow is important.
Get a decent oven with stupid strong airflow. and measurable temperature. Without this you are wasting your time. Follow the instructions.
(YMMV) We coat 3 times, with a 2 hour drying period between coat and bake. It works in our climate every time, YMMV. We resize after the 3rd coat and water drop between the last coat and the restrike.
I have shot 8000 9mmP full strength 124gr Hi Tek bullets out a Beretta 92 (new) without cleaning and found no visible trace of leading when I finally cleaned the weapon (and I looked hard).
Finally, it takes some trial and error- we put that down to diffent environments affecting this amazing product in different ways, but it works. the proof is that our two sponsered National shooters that are going to the IPSC World Shoot in France next year are both taking our Hi Tek product with them, and I wont ever shoot another electroplated bullet by choice again. My next 80 lbs of powder are due here on Wednesday having cleared Customs. Thanks Joe, and, by default, Trevor- great product!

[Avenger442]

Scorpius
Sorry to be so long in getting back to you. Yes you need a convection oven not a toaster oven if you want some color consistency throughout the tray you are cooking. I tried my oven without the convection and still got bullets I could shoot but they were four or five shades of the color I was using. I would think that you might want to cook a little longer without convection to make sure all of the coating was cooked well enough. Might have some cool spots that didn't get the coating up to cure temperature.

Could not get to tapatalk.



Joe
Congratulations, world wide acclaim.

[Gremlin460]

Sweet. When am I likely to get mine?? You got yours??

Nope I even gave him an extra two days after Xmas, I think he has consumed them all by himself...

[HI-TEK]

[QUOTE=Avenger442;3888171



Joe
Congratulations, world wide acclaim.[/QUOTE]

Thanks much Avenger. As my better half said, "we are an overnight success", taken over 24- 25 years.
This product range has been an on going development project, being improved as we go, with very dedicated shooters that fed back their results.
Now, we have tweaked final recipes close to ideal conditions, that meet 99.99 percent of end use applications.
With demand for newer colours, we have run into some hiccups, where we had not so good results with compatibility issues with newer trial mixes. But that is development, You win some and loose some. Because of unique nature of these coatings, you cannot rely on any help from outside sources, as no one has any expertise with such technical details, and there is no other product manufacturer that has equivalent products.
Thanks for your support and feed back.
Joe

[Ausglock]

We resize after the 3rd coat and water drop between the last coat and the restrike.

What do you mean by"restrike"? is that sizing?

[SAndy37]

What do you mean by"restrike"? is that sizing?
Yup...

[HI-TEK]

Nope I even gave him an extra two days after Xmas, I think he has consumed them all by himself...

I had a good go, (could not finish it all) but I did get some help with friends and family, (17 of them) celebrating Christmas day with us.

[Gremlin460]

Its 113F 40% humidity today, If I wanted to coat today I would have to nearly double the acetone component to get any chance of swirling. Damn its warm!

[Ausglock]

108Deg F here and 40% RH.
Indoors in the AC.

[Avenger442]

Been a warm fall and winter here. Our heating bill is way down from the usual. We made up for it this past summer. Cooling bills were up. Even had to replace a unit that failed this summer. It wasn't that it was extremely hot just so many days above 95. With the exception of the replaced unit the bill probably will even out over the year.

I haven't had much time for casting and coating. We usually celebrate Christmas from about December 20 - January 1. Since the family is scattered we have several get togethers.

Can't even load for my .308. I cracked the expander while trying to remove a stuck shell. One on the way from Hornady.

Did get in a trip to the range with the grand daughters, one good thing about them being out of school. They love to shoot those Hi Tek bullets. Shot all of my .308 over half of the .38 I had loaded and about 150 rounds of .22 LR. They would have shot up all of my .44 mag. if I had not left it at home. Never seen girls that like to shoot as much as these do. One of them looks like she will be a much better shooter than her Grandad with the pistols.

Got an new Hornady powder measure and some Lee molds from the wife for Christmas. So maybe I can get back to it next year.:Fire:

Hope you all had a Happy Jesus' Birthday and wishing you a very good New Year

Avenger 442
In Sweet Home

[ioon44]

Had a play with the wall oven this arvo.

Managed to fry a 40 amp SSR. Hooked 2 elements to it... Didn't like it and blew the breaker.
I now have the PID running to a 12v/240v 40 Amp SSR that in turn runs to a 240v/240v 20 Amp SSR.
Running 2 elements from this works, but the 20 Amp SSR is getting very warm.
Going to run a seperate SSR for each element.
With only a top element and the fan element running, The oven reached 200 Deg C in just 2.5 minutes!!!!

Here are a couple of pics. The wireing is a mess and will be cleaned up. Need to get a few more SSR's.

This oven shows real promise. The fans pushes a huge amount of air around the oven compartment.
The fan switch on the door that stops the fan when the door opens saves a lot of heat loss.
Closing the door had the temp drop from 200 to 195. Recovery to 200 was 30 seconds.

I like it.....
http://i193.photobucket.com/albums/z222/glock40sw/Mobile%20Uploads/20160327_180205.jpg (http://s193.photobucket.com/user/glock40sw/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20160327_180205.jpg.html)

http://i193.photobucket.com/albums/z222/glock40sw/Mobile%20Uploads/20160327_180222.jpg (http://s193.photobucket.com/user/glock40sw/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20160327_180222.jpg.html)
Ausglock how is this oven working for you with both elements running?
My thermostat is going bad in my oven so I am going to have to something like this.

[popper]

Ausglock - you MUST put a big heat sink on the SSRs, specially if run from 220. Get a computer PS box with fan (220) and mount inside. Hot SSRs have a thermal runaway problem.

[Ausglock]

This oven is working bloody great.
Still only running 2 of the 4 elements.
The SSR's are mounted to their alloy heatsinks and screwed to the sides of the oven exterior walls.
By having 1 ssr to each element, causes very little heat buildup in the SSRs.
The digital countdown timer is a great bit of kit too. When time is reached, it flashes and sounds an alarm on the red round thing next to it.
Red reset button above gets pressed to start the countdown when trays are inserted to the oven.
Oven warmup time is 2:30min.
2 trays (5Kg) bake time is 7:30 mins.
I have been using this for awhile now and the repeatability and consistant baking/colour is great.
I have another wall oven here to modify as well. Just need time to do it.
Photo of the first oven showing the final layout of the controls.
2 toggle switches.
One is master control. other is heating isolator. This one is not really needed, so I might remove it at some stage.

http://i193.photobucket.com/albums/z222/glock40sw/Mobile%20Uploads/20160619_101742.jpg (http://s193.photobucket.com/user/glock40sw/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20160619_101742.jpg.html)

[ioon44]

Thanks for the reply, looks like a really nice set up.

Where did you place the K sensor or does it matter with the convection fan running?

Happy new year to every one.

[Ausglock]

The K sensor is an 8" long one that enters at the top left rear of the compartment. It sits about 2" from the top element.
There is another enrty point at the top left front. It is 4" from the top element. I placed another K sensor in there for testing the accuracy of the rear sensor.
Once the oven came to 200 degC on the rear sensor, the front sensor (on a seperate temp reader) also indicated 200deg C, so being close to the element is no problem.
At the 7 minute mark, I cracked the door and shot the bullets on the tray with an IR thermometer. The bullet were reading 203deg C when the oven was indicating 201deg C.
Good enough for me.
HITEK Joe wants me to plug a sensor in the middle of a bullet and log the alloy heatup time against the oven indicated temp.
I will one day when I get time..

[marky123]

Hi everybody
I've 10 kgs of Lee 358-124rf here and K green HT powder to play around with.
half are COWW and half are COWW but given a weak acid bath before casting to degrease
I'm going to
batch them in 400g
wash them in acetone
warm them with a hairdryer
give them 2mls of 20g ht/120ml acetone/20ml meths
cut with + 1ml acetone,don't want it too thick applied with a syringe
swirl them for < 10 seconds in a plastic 5l bucket,any longer they dry out
dry them for 30 minutes on a perforated steel sheet under a fan(its 22'C/71f)
bake for 10 minutes in my toaster oven with a digital thermometer
Then the bullets will fail the smash test,will pass the acetone test but I will be able to scrape the coating off with my fingernail.This is an improvement,they never used to pass the acetone test.
This is what always happens and I can't figure it out.
any suggestions and tips gratefully received

MARK

[Ausglock]

Beats me what your got going on.
I coated and baked 25,000 9mm today. all with 2 coats of Kryptonite green powder mixed 20gms to 100 mls @ 6mls per 2.5kg of alloy.
The only thing different that you have to what I have is the alloy.

[marky123]

how do you measure that?

[Ausglock]

how do you measure that?
Measure what???

The Number 1 reason why coating does not stick is that it is NOT dry before baking.

Go to walmart etc and get a heater fan. They are cheap. set it in front of your tray of coated bullets and warm them so that you can feel that they are warm. Then bake them.

[marky123]

Will do.

[Grmps]

how do you measure that?

You use your powder scale to weigh the 20 gms of powder and a glass with mil measurements on it or a large syringe to measure the 100 mil acetone. (if I’m doing smaller batches I’ll go 10 grms to 50 mil.
Put a couple bullets in the solution and mix well. Let the solution sit for at least 1 hour before coating.
I measure my 6 mil solution with a syringe to 4.5 lbs of bullets http://www.ebay.com/itm/131914131871?_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649&var=431254892345&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT and Clear Polyethylene Tubing 1/4" OD .170" ID http://www.ebay.com/itm/162307454411?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
Cut the tubing to stick out of the container, mix the solution, plug the syringe into the tubing, suck up the 6 mil of solution. Remove the syringe from the tubing. Squirt on the bullets and swirl/ shake for 15 – 20 seconds then dump onto drying screen. I put the screen/tray in front of a fan with room for the air to blow under until dry. Then I put the tray of dry coated bullets on top of the oven for 1 cook cycle 10 min for my oven.
The first coat should not give you dark coverage and usually looks very thin. That is what you want.
You should not smelt you lead in your casting pot. Your lead should be smelted, fluxed and clean, cast into ingots before you start casting. This keeps your pot clean.

[Gremlin460]

Hi everybody
I've 10 kgs of Lee 358-124rf here and K green HT powder to play around with.
half are COWW and half are COWW but given a weak acid bath before casting to degrease
I'm going to
batch them in 400g
wash them in acetone
warm them with a hairdryer
give them 2mls of 20g ht/120ml acetone/20ml meths
cut with + 1ml acetone,don't want it too thick applied with a syringe
swirl them for < 10 seconds in a plastic 5l bucket,any longer they dry out
dry them for 30 minutes on a perforated steel sheet under a fan(its 22'C/71f)
bake for 10 minutes in my toaster oven with a digital thermometer
Then the bullets will fail the smash test,will pass the acetone test but I will be able to scrape the coating off with my fingernail.This is an improvement,they never used to pass the acetone test.
This is what always happens and I can't figure it out.
any suggestions and tips gratefully received

MARK

A) no need to etch the lead, because if you smelt them into ingot first and fluxed correctly you have clean lead.
b) the reason it fails the smash test is because it has not dried all the way to the lead.
c) the reason it passes the wipe test is because you have cure the surface of the coating. but because you failed at B. the coating, although set,activate,cured (pick a word) has not bonded with the alloy.
d) I cant see the need for the metho, you have already increased swirl time with the addition of an extra 10mls of acetone, going from 100 to 120. 20:100 is not a "thick" mixture by any streach of the imagination, so 20:120 is 25% thinner.

From what you describe is your method, I think you are close, but not quite dead centre.
Mike.

[Ausglock]

Mark.
This is great.

Do this.........


You use your powder scale to weigh the 20 gms of powder and a glass with mil measurements on it or a large syringe to measure the 100 mil acetone. (if I’m doing smaller batches I’ll go 10 grms to 50 mil.
Put a couple bullets in the solution and mix well. Let the solution sit for at least 1 hour before coating.
I measure my 6 mil solution with a syringe to 4.5 lbs of bullets http://www.ebay.com/itm/131914131871?_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649&var=431254892345&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT and Clear Polyethylene Tubing 1/4" OD .170" ID http://www.ebay.com/itm/162307454411?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
Cut the tubing to stick out of the container, mix the solution, plug the syringe into the tubing, suck up the 6 mil of solution. Remove the syringe from the tubing. Squirt on the bullets and swirl/ shake for 15 – 20 seconds then dump onto drying screen. I put the screen/tray in front of a fan with room for the air to blow under until dry. Then I put the tray of dry coated bullets on top of the oven for 1 cook cycle 10 min for my oven.
The first coat should not give you dark coverage and usually looks very thin. That is what you want.
You should not smelt you lead in your casting pot. Your lead should be smelted, fluxed and clean, cast into ingots before you start casting. This keeps your pot clean.

[marky123]

184442This is the acetone test

184443This is the smash test


184446This is the fingernail test.


I heated the coated bullets for 30 minutes under a fan heater then baked them.
Shall I shoot a few?

[HI-TEK]

Marky, thanks for your post.
I just want to get things in order,
1. Is that one coat? The coating seems much too thick.
2. Acetone test simply exposes under cooked coatings.
3. Smash test reveals adhesion problems. Your smash test showed poor adhesion. I am not surprised at your ability to scratch off baked coating, as it is very clear that it has not stuck to alloy.
4. You can shoot these, but I doubt you will be happy with results.
5. Adhesion problems are in majority are caused by thickly applied coatings that trap moisture. Coatings will bake cure, but poor adhesion results as moisture lifts coating off the alloy, and, coating is baked but not bonded..
6. I have seen previously, (rare but possible) alloy that contained Zinc and Cadmium metal. If your alloy contains either or both, you will have adhesion problems also, as coating reacts with these metals at alloy surface and results in poor bonding.
My suggestion at this stage is for you to obtain a known alloy 92:6:2 mix, and cast and coat this as a comparison.
Please advise in detail your coating procedures.
I am assuming at this stage, that you are not using any release agents/lubes during casting.

[marky123]

Marky, thanks for your post.
I just want to get things in order,
1. Is that one coat? The coating seems much too thick.
2. Acetone test simply exposes under cooked coatings.
3. Smash test reveals adhesion problems. Your smash test showed poor adhesion. I am not surprised at your ability to scratch off baked coating, as it is very clear that it has not stuck to alloy.
4. You can shoot these, but I doubt you will be happy with results.
5. Adhesion problems are in majority are caused by thickly applied coatings that trap moisture. Coatings will bake cure, but poor adhesion results as moisture lifts coating off the alloy, and, coating is baked but not bonded..
6. I have seen previously, (rare but possible) alloy that contained Zinc and Cadmium metal. If your alloy contains either or both, you will have adhesion problems also, as coating reacts with these metals at alloy surface and results in poor bonding.
My suggestion at this stage is for you to obtain a known alloy 92:6:2 mix, and cast and coat this as a comparison.
Please advise in detail your coating procedures.
I am assuming at this stage, that you are not using any release agents/lubes during casting.
Hi Joe
1.Two coats
2.cooked ok
3.still not cracked that nut.
4.I darent,it takes to long to clean the barrel
5.2mls 20gHT/120mlacetone/20ml meths +1 ml acetone per 800g bullets x 2 coats 200C x12 minutes
6.COWW is my alloy of choice.I cleaned the mould cavities with acetone and smoked it with a butane lighter.
I've an idea.Its probably the same money to send 1kg of my bullets to someone knowledgable to coat than to buy 92/6/2 alloy.I'll pay that person $50 for their time to run my bullets through their coating process.Australasia based,no offence.
Any takers?
MARK

[HI-TEK]

[QUOTE=marky123;3900256]Hi Joe
1.Two coats My question is, did you test after first coat and before you coated a second time? If first coat had failed tests, coating and baking again, wont fix adhesion problems with first coat
2.cooked ok How did you determine this?
3.still not cracked that nut. You must get first coat bonded, before you coat again. Applying two coats wont fix bad first coat problems. The coating has specific requirements. (a) must be applied thinly, dried very well,especially first coat. (b) coating and alloy must reach to 180C and kept there at minimum of 90 seconds after reaching 180C
4.I darent,it takes to long to clean the barrel
5.2mls 20gHT/120mlacetone/20ml meths +1 ml acetone per 800g bullets x 2 coats 200C x12 minutes. Are you sure that with first coat, you actually are getting alloy to at least 180C?
6.COWW is my alloy of choice.I cleaned the mould cavities with acetone and smoked it with a butane lighter.
I've an idea.Its probably the same money to send 1kg of my bullets to someone knowledgable to coat than to buy 92/6/2 alloy.I'll pay that person $50 for their time to run my bullets through their coating process.Australasia based,no offence.
Any takers?
MARK[/QUOTE
I am sure that someone may take up your offer. The problems you face is that all commercial casters are flat out with their orders. They would have to essentially stop what they are doing to do your product.

[marky123]

[QUOTE=marky123;3900256]Hi Joe
1.Two coats My question is, did you test after first coat and before you coated a second time? If first coat had failed tests, coating and baking again, wont fix adhesion problems with first coat
Yes,always its the same result.I though if I could get another coat on it may not scratch off.
2.cooked ok How did you determine this?It passed the acetone test
3.still not cracked that nut. You must get first coat bonded, before you coat again. Applying two coats wont fix bad first coat problems. The coating has specific requirements. (a) must be applied thinly, dried very well,especially first coat. (b) coating and alloy must reach to 180C and kept there at minimum of 90 seconds after reaching 180C
I have used 3 different sets of thermometers to determine the temperature.The current one is digital.The drying procedure is thus:warm bullets under fan heater,coat,return to heater for 30 minutes,then bake.I currently have 1kg of coated bullets drying as I type.I will bake these at 200C for 15 minutes
4.I darent,it takes to long to clean the barrel
Well actually I just tried 50.Shot very well,no tumbling shenanigans but there was a fairly even but thin coating of shiny silvery lead in the barrel.I know it was thin,because it came out very easily with a brush.
5.2mls 20gHT/120mlacetone/20ml meths +1 ml acetone per 800g bullets x 2 coats 200C x12 minutes. Are you sure that with first coat, you actually are getting alloy to at least 180C?
I think so,but I'll give it a bit longer in the oven
6.COWW is my alloy of choice.I cleaned the mould cavities with acetone and smoked it with a butane lighter.
I've an idea.Its probably the same money to send 1kg of my bullets to someone knowledgable to coat than to buy 92/6/2 alloy.I'll pay that person $50 for their time to run my bullets through their coating process.Australasia based,no offence.
Any takers?
MARK[/QUOTE
I am sure that someone may take up your offer. The problems you face is that all commercial casters are flat out with their orders. They would have to essentially stop what they are doing to do your product.
In that case,whats that alloy formula please?
92 Lead,6 tin??,2 antimony???
Nobody wants this to work more than me Joe,but I'm no further along than I was in September when it arrived.
A bit grayer perhaps...
MARK

[HI-TEK]

[QUOTE=HI-TEK;3900280]
In that case,whats that alloy formula please?
92 Lead,6 tin??,2 antimony???
Nobody wants this to work more than me Joe,but I'm no further along than I was in September when it arrived.
A bit grayer perhaps...
MARK

Mark,
Before we go to a standard alloy, can I please ask for you to go through this.
1. MIXTURE 20gms powder to 100-120 mls solvent. Use 6 mls of this mixture to quickly coat (10-15 seconds tumble coat) 250 cast bullets. Dump these onto drying mesh, and don't worry about appearances or if they are not evenly coated and are wet. You should not have excess mixture inside your coating container.
2. When you think they are dry, place mesh on top of your oven, with an air gap between mesh and oven. Warm air will help completion of drying.
Take a few, 4 or 5 off the mesh, and cook these for 10 minutes at 200C. Take them out of oven and examine after cooling. Take a picture close up if possible.
Do your tests. If coating passes smash and solvent tests, size them through your sizing system, to see what happens. Send me picture of the few you baked.
3. If first baked coating is found OK, only then, bake the rest from drying mesh as located from on top of your oven.. Now, because of your increased metal loading, the recovery temperature in oven may take longer to get to where it is required for cooking conditions. (It is possible, that cooking time may require an additional 2-3 minutes, and will greatly depend on your oven capacity, air circulations etc etc.)
4. Take out the bulk 245 baked bullets, cool, and take a picture as is. Send me this picture. Compare appearance of the few baked first, to the 245 baked, side by side, and see if any differences can be noticed.
5. Once the bulk, (245) are cool, test with smash and solvent, and size a few. Record results. If all seems OK, only then, coat the lot again, using 6mls mixture, coat quickly, (10-15 seconds), then dump on mesh to dry. Repeat all steps as done with first coat, taking care that every step is the same as done with first coat.
If you find problems with first coat after baking, don't bother to second coat. Additional coats wont fix previous problems. You must investigate why first coat failed.
Please send me detailed results with photos, and I will then try to identify any problematic areas.

[Ausglock]

Jesus........Pm me. I'll coat em and bake em.
It isn't rocket science.
Today I was coating and baking. But it started raining. Rh went to 99%.
coating wasn't drying, the bullets still felt cold. Coated bullets were cloudy looking. So I stopped coating/baking and started casting.
You have to use the old noggin with this stuff. Will coat/bake when the rain stops and the RH drops a bit.

[Grmps]

Maybe we need to look at the oven. The casting alloy isn't the problem, I cast and coat pure lead, coww, Linotype to 33 bhp and all coats well.
You need to test your oven temp by putting an oven thermometer in the middle of the shelf you bake the bullets on. Adjust your oven until the thermometer on the shelf reads 400F. Cool the oven and repeat a couple times to make sure its set right. When the oven thermometer in the oven reads 400, make a note at what your oven is set at. Almost all counter-top ovens are off, some up to 50 degrees. You should have a PID temperature controller for the oven but that's not a 100% requirement. When you are absolutely sure your oven is set to reach 400 degrees.
If your bullets are kept clean and dry after you cast them (no solvents) and you follow the process I previously outlined and bake the bullets for 12 min. When they are completely cool do the rub test and smash test. I see no reason they shouldn't pass.
reasons for coating failure:
1) improperly mixed solution
2) coated to thick
3) not cooked long enough
4) oven not hot enough

[marky123]

Will report back thanks everyone

[Gremlin460]

where abouts are you Mark?

[Ausglock]

OK... Just for you Mark.

1. Weigh out 20 grams of HITEK powder.
2. Measure 100mls of acetone or MEK. (NOT bloody nail polish remover or anything like that. It MUST BE Pure Acetone.)Diggers brand is fine. Stay away from Septone.
3. Get glass or plastic jar
4. Add the powder to the jar and then add the 100mls of Acetone.
5. Put lid on the mixture and shake the schit out of it for 2 minutes. You will feel it get warm as it reacts. LEAVE IT FOR 1/2 HOUR BEFORE YOU USE IT TO COAT!!!!!!!
6. Add about 200 to 250 bullets(about 2Kgs to 2.5Kgs) to the plastic bucket. lid is NOT needed.
7. Shake the coating. Suck up 6mls of coating and squirt it back into the jar. Now suckup another 6mls and Immediately add it to the bullets in the bucket.
8. Shake the bucket of bullets and coating. Remember... you have to have the bullets and coating mixing around just like a cement mixer does. The bottom of the bucket should be wet with coating.
9. Keep shaking, swirling until the rattle of the bullets changes to a dull thumping. you will hear the change really easy.
10. dump the coated bullets onto your drying tray and shake the tray side to side until the bullets have leveled out on the tray. don't worry about them touching. it doesn't matter.
11. If you think there isn't enough colour on the bullet, then you have the coating just right. Leave them alone for at least 10 minutes. then warm them with a hair dryer or Fan Heater.
12. turn on your oven and pre-heat to 200deg C. While the oven is heating up, place the tray of Bullets on top of the oven to pre-warm them.
13. place tray in the oven.
14. set the oven timer for 12 minutes. not 6 or 8. But a full 12 minutes.
15. when the oven turns off, remove the tray of bullets and let them cool. do not touch them until cool.use a fan to speed up the cooling
16. when cool. take 1 bullet. lay it in it's side on a steel base and smash it with a hammer. the coating should not flake off.
17. Take another bullet and get some acetone on a white cloth and wipe the coated bullet for 30 seconds and see if the colour comes off. if it does. place back into oven and bake for another 5 minutes. ( I have found 12 minutes per bake is enough).
18. When the bullets are cool, place back in the bucket and repeat steps 6 to 17.
19. when 2nd coat has cooled and has tested OK, Size and shoot.

This is really easy to do. the biggest mistake is not shaking immediately before coating or not baking long enough or at a too low temperature.

If your coating passes the wipe test but smashes off, You have used too much coating. remember... it is a stain, not a paint. a little goes a long way.

Do not try to process small lots of 10 or 20 bullets. you are only wasting your time and you WILL get the schittz cause it will not work.

OK. Now See what you get after following this TO THE LETTER!!!!
Thanks.

[Ausglock]

where abouts are you Mark?

Sheep Shagger..Land of the long white sheepskin.
KFK...Kentucky fried Kiwi.
Jandal chucker.

Mark. Contact The bloke that runs this place.
He has been using HITEK and casting and coating for a few years.
https://www.3gun.co.nz/

[marky123]

He sold me my 2nd Glock!!!

[dikman]

Don't hold that against him :lol:.

[Gremlin460]

Don't hold that against him :lol:.

I am suprised he made the same mistake TWICE!!

[HI-TEK]

I am suprised he made the same mistake TWICE!!

Don't knock Glocks, they shoot hi-tek coated cast alloys just fine, despite claims from manufacturers that you canst shoot any thing else in them except Jacketed.
These days, of anti gun lobbyists complaining, any thing that can be purchased legally is great news.

[marky123]

I'm on it
thanks
ausglock,dikman,gremlin and hitek
MARK

[Lead Ringer]

Ive been struggling with a proper adhesion of the HI-Tek coating? Ive just copied and printed these instructions. Ill give it another try.
Mine look good and shoot well and clean at lower velocities. But foul out at 1050FPS or faster?
Thanks
Ringer

[popper]

Gold 1035 + red copper are better for the higher fps. There may be others also. Alloy also makes a difference.

[HI-TEK]

Ive been struggling with a proper adhesion of the HI-Tek coating? Ive just copied and printed these instructions. Ill give it another try.
Mine look good and shoot well and clean at lower velocities. But foul out at 1050FPS or faster?
Thanks
Ringer

Thanks for your post.
Can you please clarify your "struggle with adhesion?
If you are shooting well, and clean up to 1000ft.sec, and coatings had passed tests without coming off, this may be pointing to a problem of your alloy being inadequate for higher velocities.
The coatings are simply a bonded dry self lubricating coating. They are not replacement for Jacketed projectiles, and coatings cannot correct for engineering deficiencies.
With limited amount of information being available, my guess is, that your alloy is too soft to use at higher speeds, and, none of the Hi-Tek coatings will prevent soft alloy being damaged with high velocity use.
Hi-Tek

[Avenger442]

I would like to add Gun Metal to Poppers list. It performs well in my .308, gas checked and three coats, well north of 2400 fps. If I remember correctly, that alloy is around 16 BHN per my Lee tester. I think any of the metallic based Hi Tek coating should do the same.

I've used the Gold 1035, Copper 500, Dark Blue and Gun Metal in the Ruger 44 mag. Some with max loads and no leading. I think most of that powder was 4227 but I also shot some Titegroup. I like the big bullet guns but some of these loads would make my hand and arm hurt. Found that I'm more accurate with less powder so stopped using the max and near max loads. These bullets were not gas checked and had three coats. Lead was straight clip on wheel weights with 2% tin. I think it's around 11-12 BHN. Also some hollow points that were 50/50 COWW/lead. I don't remember that BHN. No lead in the barrel. In fact with the Gold 1035, after a couple of dry patches sometimes, it looked like the barrel had been cleaned.

Joe's right about the lead alloy. I tried the 11- 12 BHN lead COWW with no gas check three coats and loads one to three grains under max load H4895 in my .308. The pressure overcame the ability of the lead and had to clean the barrel. One of two times I have had leading. Think I could of gone down to mid or low 30 grain area and been OK with this bullet. You can't make a jacket out of this stuff. But it's a lubricant easily applied somewhat forgiving and does work.

Did melt down about 10 pounds of .45s because I coated too thick and failed smash test. Hey we all make mistakes along the way.

Keep working on it you'll get it right. Once you get it right you'll love it.

[marky123]

https://youtu.be/YEvg8TlUASU
Hi there hitekkers
More fail from me I'm afraid
I tried again with the instructions from AUSGLOCK and HITEK,I left the coated bullets to dry under a fan for 90minutes and sat them on the oven as it warmed up,but,as you can see,the coating chipped like a potato.
I'm going to try some different acetone and MEK.Will report.
MARK

[Ausglock]

Umm. when you tipped it back into the squirt bottle, you left all the gold on the bottom of the container.

Also... you are NOT using a Benchtop convection oven! They need 10 to 12 minutes.
You ARE using a wall oven!!. My wall oven only takes 7 1/2 minutes to bake 2 trays (5Kg total).
So you are over baking to buggery.
Try it again for say 8 minutes. Ensure you oven has the fan setting activated.
How many elements are working?

Also... It looks to me as if you are actually scratching lead as well as coating off.
Have you tried shooting any of these???

[Gremlin460]

How big is your syringe?, you had to take 2 bites at introducing the mix. Get a 10ml Syringe so you can do it all in one bite without wasting the time to go back and get part 2 of the mix you need. Also I suggest a SQUARE bucket, as you swirl the corners actually force the cast to change position instead of "Slide" in a Circle. Once you get the process down , then maybe go back to round buckets.

[Gremlin460]

Don't knock Glocks, they shoot hi-tek coated cast alloys just fine, despite claims from manufacturers that you canst shoot any thing else in them except Jacketed.
These days, of anti gun lobbyists complaining, any thing that can be purchased legally is great news.

Not knocking the glocks, they are a fantasic backup unit if you drop your knife!!.....[smilie=1:

[Ausglock]

Haters gunna hate........:mrgreen:

[Ausglock]

Mark. I still think it is your alloy. How about send some to me.
Test them with hardness tester and Coat them.

[Avenger442]

Ausglock
Not trying to argue with the Master Coater but. Go back and look at Marks last photo in post 7951. If you look top right on the bullet it looks like the coating flaked off on the fingernail test. I agree that the alloy looks soft or Mark has raptor fingernails. I wouldn't shoot it in my .308 at 2500 if my fingernails would scratch it like that. But it looks like an adhesion problem and that is usually coating too thick or not drying long enough. Also the smash test in photo two looks like it's from another batch. In that photo it looks like the coating is bubbled. Which would mean not enough drying time.

I guess that it could be contaminated lead as Joe pointed out in previous post which would make it a correct statement to say alloy problem. Having a discussion right now with Popper about adding zinc to melt so I can add copper. Another new wrinkle in the never ending casting blanket. I'm concerned that if some zinc is left in the alloy it might create adhesion problems that Joe noted. The zinc or tin is needed so that the copper will replace it in the melt.

Mark
I know everyone is trying to get done in a hurry but you might want to try letting the first coat dry overnight or day as the case may be. Sometimes I let my first coat dry 24 hrs. And maybe a splash more solvent in the mix. More solvent will will not hurt.

[marky123]

I only baked 20 of the 200 coated bullets,the rest are drying .I'll bake these tonight for 7-8 minutes.interestingly it was more difficult to scrape the coating off after leaving the bullets overnight.

[marky123]

Ausglock
Not trying to argue with the Master Coater but. Go back and look at Marks last photo in post 7951. If you look top right on the bullet it looks like the coating flaked off on the fingernail test. I agree that the alloy looks soft or Mark has raptor fingernails. I wouldn't shoot it in my .308 at 2500 if my fingernails would scratch it like that. But it looks like an adhesion problem and that is usually coating too thick or not drying long enough. Also the smash test in photo two looks like it's from another batch. In that photo it looks like the coating is bubbled. Which would mean not enough drying time.

I guess that it could be contaminated lead as Joe pointed out in previous post which would make it a correct statement to say alloy problem. Having a discussion right now with Popper about adding zinc to melt so I can add copper. Another new wrinkle in the never ending casting blanket. I'm concerned that if some zinc is left in the alloy it might create adhesion problems that Joe noted. The zinc or tin is needed so that the copper will replace it in the melt.

Mark
I know everyone is trying to get done in a hurry but you might want to try letting the first coat dry overnight or day as the case may be. Sometimes I let my first coat dry 24 hrs. And maybe a splash more solvent in the mix. More solvent will will not hurt.
I'm following hiteks and ausglocks instructions closely,they said 20g/100ml

[marky123]

How big is your syringe?, you had to take 2 bites at introducing the mix. Get a 10ml Syringe so you can do it all in one bite without wasting the time to go back and get part 2 of the mix you need. Also I suggest a SQUARE bucket, as you swirl the corners actually force the cast to change position instead of "Slide" in a Circle. Once you get the process down , then maybe go back to round buckets.
I have a nice square sandcastle bucket.Next batch when I get new chemicals...

[Avenger442]

Mark
Understand following instructions. Very important.

[wlkjr]

It's funny how most everyone carefully measures out the amount of solution to coat the bullets with. I put about 5 pounds of bullets in a square bowl and squirt for about 2 seconds straight out of the squeeze bottle.
I suppose the humidity in my shop is not very high as mine are dry in about 10 minutes. I do set them on my toaster oven for 15 minutes to preheat. This procedure has worked for me and I understand different climates make a difference.
I am by no means a guru so take this for what it's worth: It appears to me that your heat is either too high or cooked too long, maybe both, just judging by the color. My green turns brown if I cook it too long.One other observation is that the lead looks pretty soft.
Have you tried a different color?
I feel confident that you will eventually get this straightened out and be a happy camper.

[marky123]

I have some different acetone and some MEK on order.
its 25c in my garage,but I haven't considered the humidity.I think it's the acetone cos the mixture didn't warm up initially...

[Gremlin460]

I have some different acetone and some MEK on order.
its 25c in my garage,but I haven't considered the humidity.I think it's the acetone cos the mixture didn't warm up initially...

Hang in there Mark, one day soon it will all click and work great, and you will have no idea why. That's because you are close. You will only need MEK if you are trying to slow down evaporation.. AusGlock and myself have to fight near 100 deg heat in summer and ,trust me it flashes off fast over here.

[marky123]

Not knocking the glocks, they are a fantasic backup unit if you drop your knife!!.....[smilie=1:
Ahahahahaha
Get back in yer box!!!

[HI-TEK]

I only baked 20 of the 200 coated bullets,the rest are drying .I'll bake these tonight for 7-8 minutes.interestingly it was more difficult to scrape the coating off after leaving the bullets overnight.

For whatever reason, you have confirmed that more drying produced better results.
One area we have not addressed is, that the Acetone you are using may have high Water content.
That will certainly not help at all.
Combined with excessive moisture, that reduces drying, aside from poor drying, this moisture can also react with more "active" contaminant metals, that will also react with the coating, that may also cause adhesion failures.
For all the problem indications so far, I am suspecting drying as main cause, Acetone quality is also high on suspicion list, and to a lesser extent, possibility of alloy being contaminated, and a possibility of all 3 as contributing factors.
I refer back to my previous blog, where I advised, that moisture, heated from room temperature to 100C, expands about 1000 times original volume. You don't need much moisture to cause problems such as experienced.
If there is trapped moisture inside coating, when placing this into an oven, the moisture will travel towards cooler surface (being the alloy). Heat expands vapour, steam/vapour lifts the coating film off alloy, heat cures lifted coating, but there is no bonding to alloy, as lifted film is supported with a steam layer that is formed between alloy and coating. The lifted film is heat set.
Upon cooling, coating is set, but poorly or not bonded. Typical tell tale sign/appearance from moisture entrapment, is blistering or small bubbles that are set and visible in baked coating after heat cure.
I did request, that you carry out a controlled test in my blog 7956.
I am keen to get your results from my suggestions.

[marky123]

Hang in there Mark, one day soon it will all click and work great, and you will have no idea why. That's because you are close. You will only need MEK if you are trying to slow down evaporation.. AusGlock and myself have to fight near 100 deg heat in summer and ,trust me it flashes off fast over here.
The acetone or the MEK?Or both?

[Ausglock]

MEK is more forgiving to hotter climates.
You do not need MEK down in Sheep shagger land.
When you had the coated bullets in front of the fan. Was the fan a heater fan or a normal old fan?
Placing the bullets on top of a wall oven to pre-warm is useless. They are too well insulated to do any good. This is why you use a fan heater.

[marky123]

For whatever reason, you have confirmed that more drying produced better results.
One area we have not addressed is, that the Acetone you are using may have high Water content.
That will certainly not help at all.
Combined with excessive moisture, that reduces drying, aside from poor drying, this moisture can also react with more "active" contaminant metals, that will also react with the coating, that may also cause adhesion failures.
For all the problem indications so far, I am suspecting drying as main cause, Acetone quality is also high on suspicion list, and to a lesser extent, possibility of alloy being contaminated, and a possibility of all 3 as contributing factors.
I refer back to my previous blog, where I advised, that moisture, heated from room temperature to 100C, expands about 1000 times original volume. You don't need much moisture to cause problems such as experienced.
If there is trapped moisture inside coating, when placing this into an oven, the moisture will travel towards cooler surface (being the alloy). Heat expands vapour, steam/vapour lifts the coating film off alloy, heat cures lifted coating, but there is no bonding to alloy, as lifted film is supported with a steam layer that is formed between alloy and coating. The lifted film is heat set.
Upon cooling, coating is set, but poorly or not bonded. Typical tell tale sign/appearance from moisture entrapment, is blistering or small bubbles that are set and visible in baked coating after heat cure.
I did request, that you carry out a controlled test in my blog 7956.
I am keen to get your results from my suggestions.

Hi
Trev said I burnt them.18482710minutes at 200C

18482812 minutes at 200C.
I left them overnight after baking and the coating seemed harder to scrape off,but I could still scrape it off so I failed.
I've just done some more of the batch I coated yesterday,so they've been drying for 24 hours.
7 minutes at 200C184829
8 minutes at 200C184830
184831This is the HT mix that's been sat for 24 hours,does that look right???

[Ausglock]

the 7 and 8 looks close.
Yep. the coating settles out really quick.
That is why ya gotta remember to shake it all the bloody time.
Do you have Bunnings down there? Get yaself a fan heater. cheap and will make the difference.
I think I paid $12 Aud for mine new. I'll get some photos of my drying tray rack and fan setup later this arvo for ya.

[Grmps]

I think your right about needed new acetone.
Do you have a fan blowing over / under your bullets helping them dry?
When you do test bakes, you need to had the full 250 bullets in the oven, all but 2 or 4 of them can be raw and re-used. this will guarantee the proper heat absorption. I agree with Mike, You need a bigger syringe. I would suggest a tube or hose that reaches the bottom of you bottle to suck the hi-tek solution out with. Fill the syringe once and squirt it back in then fill it again to the proper mark.
Buy or borrow an oven thermometer to check temperature on the center of the shelf your baking on.

Hang in there.

Like they say when everything clicks you'll be able to hi-tek coat in your sleep and be glad you stuck with it.

[marky123]

I think your right about needed new acetone.
Do you have a fan blowing over / under your bullets helping them dry? I have a desk fan blowing over them and a heater fan and have tried a hairdryer.Ambient temps have been 25C,not sure on humidity although its not rained for a week.
When you do test bakes, you need to had the full 250 bullets in the oven, all but 2 or 4 of them can be raw and re-used.
I've been putting 10 in a wire basket
this will guarantee the proper heat absorption. I agree with Mike, You need a bigger syringe. I would suggest a tube or hose that reaches the bottom of you bottle to suck the hi-tek solution out with. Fill the syringe once and squirt it back in then fill it again to the proper mark.
Buy or borrow an oven thermometer to check temperature on the center of the shelf your baking on.
I have used 2 types of analogue thermometers and two types of digital.There are two thermometer probes on the middle and top shelf of the oven attached with stainless mig wire.They read 195/210C.

Hang in there.

Like they say when everything clicks you'll be able to hi-tek coat in your sleep and be glad you stuck with it.

Hopefully I can sort it with new acetone (although I'm on the second bottle of the same brand)or MEK.

cheers Hitekkers

[wlkjr]

I have Kryptonite Green, Zombie Green, Dark Green, Bronze 500, Black, and Candy Apple Red. For me the Zombie Green has been the hardest to get right. Anything with the sparkly flakes in it will settle out really quickly. Filling those from a syringe is problematic for me. Fresh acetone and a different color may give you a very different result. Just saying.

[marky123]

I have Kryptonite Green, Zombie Green, Dark Green, Bronze 500, Black, and Candy Apple Red. For me the Zombie Green has been the hardest to get right. Anything with the sparkly flakes in it will settle out really quickly. Filling those from a syringe is problematic for me. Fresh acetone and a different color may give you a very different result. Just saying.
are these powder based colours?

[wlkjr]

are these powder based colours?
Yes, they are the powders. I measure 2 level measuring tablespoons of powder to 3.5oz or 100ml of acetone.

[marky123]

When you make the hitek,how warm does it get on initial shaking?Mine didnt warm up much at all.

[wlkjr]

When you make the hitek,how warm does it get on initial shaking?Mine didnt warm up much at all.
I never noticed any change in temperature. I shake really well with 2 bullets inside to help mix and squirt about 2 seconds later. That is with a solution that has been properly mixed. Too little is better than too much as more coats will build and color will get darker.

[Ausglock]

Here is my Pre-Bake fan heater tray rack.
[URL=http://s193.photobucket.com/user/glock40sw/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20160619_101703.jpg.html]http://i193.photobucket.com/albums/z222/glock40sw/Mobile%20Uploads/20160619_101703.jpg[/URL

[Scorpius]

I have Kryptonite Green, Zombie Green, Dark Green, Bronze 500, Black, and Candy Apple Red. For me the Zombie Green has been the hardest to get right. Anything with the sparkly flakes in it will settle out really quickly. Filling those from a syringe is problematic for me. Fresh acetone and a different color may give you a very different result. Just saying.

Oh ****......first time coater and zombie green is for my pistol bullets.


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