simple Hi-Tek coating

[Ausglock]

Hitek's Sizing lube works wonders too.

[ioon44]

i make another batch 2 weeks ago with the candy apple red and they all pass wipe and smash test and i was very happy whit the result, when i size them a few were scraped on one side , i supposed is a cast issue
http://i1153.photobucket.com/albums/p505/corral43/boulet%202e%20batch%20008_zpstwwfbgq7.jpg (http://s1153.photobucket.com/user/corral43/media/boulet%202e%20batch%20008_zpstwwfbgq7.jpg.html)htt p://i1153.photobucket.com/albums/p505/corral43/boulet%202e%20batch%20009_zpskrcyflqr.jpg (http://s1153.photobucket.com/user/corral43/media/boulet%202e%20batch%20009_zpskrcyflqr.jpg.html)

now i decided to put it a third coat and WD them after to get more bhn and it all flaked to the bare lead on smash test

anyone know why ?


I have had the same experience with a 3rd coat not passing the smash test after the first and second coat passed.

This was discussed some pages back. The way Hi-Tek Joe explained it to me is that the coating is sort of like glass the thinner it is the more flexible it is.

So I have proved to myself that getting the coating on too thick can fail the smash test but I have shot a lot of these bullets with out any leading or any other problems, so I would not remelt them unless they are leading your barrel.

I mostly do 2 coats 1st coat mixed 125/20, 2nd coat 100/20 baked for 12 min at 200 C +. If you want more BHN the best way is to change alloy, I use 6-2-92 for every thing.

As for your sizing problem just polish the sizing die.

Hope this is help full, I am still on the learning curve and this coating works so good that I don't see me ever going back to wax lube.

[Hi-Performance Bullet Coatings]

I just received a small lot of The Dark Blue and Dark Green powdered Hi-Tek
If interested send a pm to me here or e-mail me at hiperformancebulletcoatings@gmail.com

[Corral]

i just finished reading all the previous post , yes all the 7255 post , i m a little bit crazy , it s also what my wife tell me sometimes
and more than the english is not my native language ,i am a french canadian , thanks to google translate lol, it took me about 3 weeks but i learned a lot

i want to size before the last coat and in same time the WD because it s smooter to size 11-12 bhn than 15-16 bhn i have after WD after the last coat

[Ausglock]

i just finished reading all the previous post , yes all the 7255 post , i m a little bit crazy , it s also what my wife tell me sometimes
and more than the english is not my native language ,i am a french canadian , thanks to google translate lol, it took me about 3 weeks but i learned a lot

i want to size before the last coat and in same time the WD because it s smooter to size 11-12 bhn than 15-16 bhn i have after WD after the last coat
Hahaha... How did google translate handle the Aussie Lingo?
I reckon it would have been scratching its head saying "Stone the bloody crows, Digger, I better have a Butchers at another dictionary before I hit the fartsack"

[kryogen]

Hahaha... How did google translate handle the Aussie Lingo?
I reckon it would have been scratching its head saying "Stone the bloody crows, Digger, I better have a Butchers at another dictionary before I hit the fartsack"

Couldnt translate "dropbear". Man that thing looks scary.
169874

[Ausglock]

Drop bears love tourists...fresh meat..

[dikman]

Too right, cobber. Nature made them look cute and cuddly, so the tourists get close and then it's bye bye tourist!

[Ausglock]

Met a bloke once. 1/2 his face was gone and 1 ear.
Huge scar tissue on his neck and down his arm.
2 Drop bears got him down Jindy way.
only thing that saved him was the creek he crawled to.
He knew Drop Bears hate water.
he drifted down stream for 3 days.
Maggots ate the rotten meat on his cheek. Only thing that saved his good eye.

[666damosydney]

Met a bloke once. 1/2 his face was gone and 1 ear.
Huge scar tissue on his neck and down his arm.
2 Drop bears got him down Jindy way.
only thing that saved him was the creek he crawled to.
He knew Drop Bears hate water.
he drifted down stream for 3 days.
Maggots ate the rotten meat on his cheek. Only thing that saved his good eye.

Cricky cobber sounds more like one of those bunyips to me stone the crows mate.

[Avenger442]

Some people have trouble with the Southern US when it comes to understanding the spoken word. Like "Egg on" and "Fixin'" or what an "Arkansas Toothpick" is. One of my personal favorites "thankin" and it isn't what you think. It changes from state to state. My wife is from northwest Georgia. We were visiting some of her relatives in Tampa, Fl. right after we got married. One of her cousins was at a party when we got to her Aunt's house so she called him on the phone to let him know we were there. She was on the phone for a long time so I went to see what was going on. They were passing the phone around at the party so each one of them could listen to her drawl. She hates it when I tell this story so don't tell her I said anything.

I had an unusual experience at the range yesterday. I did a lot of loading last week and the first part of this week anticipating "gettin" to go to the range. Had test loads in 38 spl and 44 magnum. All of the bullets were new ones for me except one in the 44. Months ago I had started trying to learn how to cast good hollow point bullets. It's harder than the regular bullet molds to get good looking bullets. I cast three hollow point molds for the 44 one batch with 8 BHN lead for the 44 special and one batch, forgot BHN I think 12, for the 44 magnum. After I had loaded them up I noticed that I had loaded the softer lead in the 44 magnum. Rather than pull all those bullets I decided to shoot them. Figured I would spend this morning cleaning out the lead. I've been looking for a load that I could use in my pistol and rifle so these were close to max loads of IMR 4227. When I got through at the range I took a cursory look at the barrel. I couldn't see any leading but didn't have my reading glasses with me. This morning I headed down to the basement to start work on "cleanin" the guns. Guess what, no lead in the barrel.
169912 These are the best photos I could get with my iphone of the barrel after a couple of passes with a dry patch.

169913

[666damosydney]

169936Just finished seting up my new as hog2 sizing unit with gattling mag thanks to mike aka gremlin from this site just have to cast more projectiles as only had 500 to size and i resized those really fast no more wasted hours one by one.
Thanks mike for all your help and a fantastic unit.
My portable bench legs fold up underneath and the press is on its own board so just un bolt the 4 outer bolts lift press still mounted off now i can have extra boards with pre mounted things and store the bench when not useing as i have little space at home

[Gremlin460]

169936Just finished seting up my new as hog2 sizing unit with gattling mag thanks to mike aka gremlin from this site just have to cast more projectiles as only had 500 to size and i resized those really fast no more wasted hours one by one.
Thanks mike for all your help and a fantastic unit.
My portable bench legs fold up underneath and the press is on its own board so just un bolt the 4 outer bolts lift press still mounted off now i can have extra boards with pre mounted things and store the bench when not useing as i have little space at home

Hope it helps you out, that's what they are for...
If you have any problems, remember my phone number is the same as AusGlocks!!! :P

[Teknikal]

i make another batch 2 weeks ago with the candy apple red and they all pass wipe and smash test and i was very happy whit the result, when i size them a few were scraped on one side , i supposed is a cast issue
http://i1153.photobucket.com/albums/p505/corral43/boulet%202e%20batch%20008_zpstwwfbgq7.jpg (http://s1153.photobucket.com/user/corral43/media/boulet%202e%20batch%20008_zpstwwfbgq7.jpg.html)htt p://i1153.photobucket.com/albums/p505/corral43/boulet%202e%20batch%20009_zpskrcyflqr.jpg (http://s1153.photobucket.com/user/corral43/media/boulet%202e%20batch%20009_zpskrcyflqr.jpg.html)

now i decided to put it a third coat and WD them after to get more bhn and it all flaked to the bare lead on smash test

anyone know why ?
How are u getting the coating in the lube groove? Most of my grooves are bare but a couple have a little coating.http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160611/aa93e42d3f925dbf6774a8efec6880aa.jpg

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

[Ausglock]

If you have coating in the grooves, you are using too much.
Forget about the grooves!!!!!!!!

[wlkjr]

All of the grooves on my commercial bought Dark Green bullets have that gold color in the groove. My candy apple reds also are gold in the groove.

[PAT303]

I've had the same problem water dropping boolits,don't ask me why but I think that when the coating heats to 350+ degree's and then water dropped it also hardens and goes brittle,the very same boolits from the very same batch non water dropped passed the smash perfect.If you look over at CBA there is a thread ATM with plain based Hi Tec boolits around 14BHN shooting under 1 1/2 at 100 doing over 2500fps,it's worth a read. Pat

[leadman]

I haven't had any problems with the Gold 1035 coating when water quenching after baking. I have pushed a 22 cal boolit to over 3,600 fps with no leading.

[slide]

This question is for everybody. What do you think is the #1 reason for failures with hi-tek? I am talking about first timers. It bothers me to see this happen. My personal opinion is they don't check the temp on their ovens. Second would be not shaking the coating enough before use.Post your ideas,maybe we can help some of these guys.

[Rompin Ruger]

Things I recall when I first started were: (in no particular order)

Trying to get too much coating on the first go around
Not letting the tumbled bullets air dry long enough before baking
Not keeping the solution shook up regularly between coatings with a bullet in the bottle to keep it well mixed
Oven temp control & bake time


Your suggestions are also spot on

I only did 45 Colt 270 gr bullets so far, and haven't done any in 2 yrs now I guess... having packed up and moved and never got set up in my new place in another state for many reasons to date. I used red copper and it came out looking like a gold-ish tint...Donnie M said likely a bit long bake...

I didn't have a piece of steel to do a smash test on and I took a chunk out of the back concrete step when I tried a smash with a 2# hand sledge...I was advised to do wipe and scratch test instead... NO leading and my other lubed bullets created a wretched barrel MESS. I'm pleased!

[DerekP Houston]

This question is for everybody. What do you think is the #1 reason for failures with hi-tek? I am talking about first timers. It bothers me to see this happen. My personal opinion is they don't check the temp on their ovens. Second would be not shaking the coating enough before use.Post your ideas,maybe we can help some of these guys.

Using too much powder, trying to use too few bullets, not getting the temp right on the oven.

That was my three! Now it works like a charm, sometimes I have to clean out the sizing die or it scrapes it, 0 leading.

[Ausglock]

All you blokes are correct. Well done.
Gold Star for each of you....:smile:

[HI-TEK]

I only did 45 Colt 270 gr bullets so far, and haven't done any in 2 yrs now I guess... having packed up and moved and never got set up in my new place in another state for many reasons to date. I used red copper and it came out looking like a gold-ish tint...Donnie M said likely a bit long bake...

Romping Ruger
I have seen this before with many of the "metallics" such as Red Copper, Bronzed Copper, Bronze 500, Bronze 502, that were sitting around for some time.
With long periods of standing, the particles pack down in a very dense sludge, and needs lots and lots and lots of shaking to re-suspend evenly. (Ask me how I know)
If it is not all well mixed up, the finished baked coatings all end up golden looking, as there is not enough goodies in coating to give the final required colour.
The golden colour is also increased with extra cooking.

[Rompin Ruger]

Romping Ruger
I have seen this before with many of the "metallics" such as Red Copper, Bronzed Copper, Bronze 500, Bronze 502, that were sitting around for some time.
With long periods of standing, the particles pack down in a very dense sludge, and needs lots and lots and lots of shaking to re-suspend evenly. (Ask me how I know)
If it is not all well mixed up, the finished baked coatings all end up golden looking, as there is not enough goodies in coating to give the final required colour.
The golden colour is also increased with extra cooking.

I had the liquid before there was the powder and I shook it till I was dizzy! I had 2 of those big bullets in and dented up the sides of the metal can...so while I have no scientific assurance, I lean toward the "over baking" but the coating was intact, held up well. On another site, they are into the PC process (which sounds way more labor intensive to me) but they're mostly handgun hunters, and tout the baking as part of an annealing (?) process that softens the lead. I remember guys here way back digging Hitec coated out of soil banks and seeing them pretty well expanded and all the coating still intact. I didn't TRY for that (over baking), it just sort of happened because I was being extra cautious and when the temp dropped opening the door to stir the bullets around mid bake, I gave a few extra minutes for it to get back up to temp. I like the color (or colour) and so far, no leading... I like they feel really slickery, to the touch, too.

Thanks, for your insights... NOW, it's been 2 yrs since I used any of that stuff and I will give extra attention to shaking the snot, cause it will be a few more months before I can do any of it since mid-week I'm up for shoulder surgery and be having my right arm strapped to me belly for 6 weeks! :groner:

[Avenger442]

Thanks, for your insights... NOW, it's been 2 yrs since I used any of that stuff and I will give extra attention to shaking the snot, cause it will be a few more months before I can do any of it since mid-week I'm up for shoulder surgery and be having my right arm strapped to me belly for 6 weeks! :groner:

Ruger
Torn rotator or replacement?

[Rompin Ruger]

NOt replacement...I just had the right knee total replacement.. HS friend is a PT and I talked to him back home. I still have aches and pains...he said it's normal for "younger" people who are still "active" to not be happy with total replacement... as it still hurts where the old knee hurt like hellfire when it hurt, but didn't always hurt...now there is constant mild discomfort, but it's ok... I can go.

The shoulder I had torn rotator done back 10-15 yrs ago...that is still in good shape, but now the rotator muscle is pulling away from the bone...so needs to be repaired... 6 weeks regardless... and lots of pt plus home program... no shooting or casting for a good while...I'm uncoordinated enough without trying to do those things LEFT handed... :p

[popper]

Pat303 - IIRC, he HiTek'd then lubes those boolits.

[Avenger442]

Ruger

I know what you mean. Was casting hollow point with a Lyman mold and large handles this morning. I'm normally fumble fingered and when I wear gloves casting it makes me worse. Dropped that dang pin for the hollow point about three times. I like to cast hollow points with the Lee molds that pin stays with the mold while you cast.

Try two table spoons of unfiltered apple vinegar in warm water with enough honey to make it palatable for the ache. The honey is the anti inflammatory in the mix but the vinegar does something just forgot what. I have arthritis in knees and right shoulder. Drink this every morning and it keeps the pain down. Able to work out at the gym without them bothering me.

[Avenger442]

Ausglock
Have you got photos of the new blue color?

[Hi-Performance Bullet Coatings]

Avenger,
I robbed this from a post several pages back. I just got my new oven setup and will be coating some with the New Blue tomorrow.

The new experimental Blue is getting very close to your other sample colour. Attached is the Blue 818V-2
It is a little darker than your Blue sample colour, but close.
165763[/QUOTE]

[Hi-Performance Bullet Coatings]

Gents,
I have another large order pending with Joe.
Any colors you guys may want to add to it? Now would be a good time to speak up, I will gladly add to the order if there is enough interest.
I am thinking of adding Kryptonite Green
Currently I have the following powders in stock:
Black
Black 1035
Old Gold
Gold 1035
Brick Red
Candy Apple Red
Red Copper
Bronze 500
Zombie Green
Black Cherry
Gun Metal

[Avenger442]

Thanks Donnie

[Beau Cassidy]

Kryptonite green???? Oh yeah.....

[Echd]

Just got an order of zombie green and old gold in from Hi performance. I have never tried Hitek powder, watched a friend do the liquid a long time ago. Shot a bunch, so I knew they performed!

Follow the directions and it's brain dead. I was impressed with how little downtime I had. I had 6 oven racks (2 racks at a time) which I rotated through and coated about ~1200 in around an hour. The drying period for each tray seemed much shorter than I anticipated- I expected tacky, wet, sloppy bullets getting golden goo all over everything. Instead they didn't even seem to leave marks on the paper I put on the trays, and they were dry and ready to be baked in under 10 minutes, and after they came out, they were ready to be recoated in ~10 minutes.

It was a busy hour though!

I'll make some hardware cloth racks later on. I just used what I had handy and it seemed to work really well.

They seem slightly harder to resize than with powder coat, but not by much at all. I haven't found any that needed to be rejected because of bad coverage, unlike with PC. The cost I suppose is the downside, but it's still absolutely dirt cheap to the point where it's not worth sweating it.

I do need some better glassware, though. I used a big polypropylene mixing bowl to toss my bullets in and a Nestle green tea bottle to mix my hitek in. Pretty ghetto! I think I used about ~15 grams of powder to get this mix, and used a slight bit more acetone than recommended (erring on the side of caution, as the well-thought-out instructions seemed to hint was good to do). The coverage speaks for itself, so I'd say it's alright. This is 2 coats and that seems to be plenty.

http://i.imgur.com/BJanF4L.jpg

[slide]

Good looking coating job!

[DerekP Houston]

Kryptonite green???? Oh yeah.....

I'd be interested to give that a shot zombie green still gives me fits some times.

[HI-TEK]

I'd be interested to give that a shot zombie green still gives me fits some times.

In down-under-land, that Zombie Green is very much liked. Kryptonite Green is more liked and is Susanne Islands Bullet Co. colour.
Attached is colour comparisons.170183170184 dark green 170185
Original Kryptonite was only available as liquid, now we are close enough with a powdered version.
Also the picture of the Blue 818 as powdered system. 170186

[Ausglock]

Its Susan Island Bullets.... And stop giving My Kryptonite Green to the Northern Hemisphere Dwellers......

[HI-TEK]

Its Susan Island Bullets.... And stop giving My Kryptonite Green to the Northern Hemisphere Dwellers......

Susanne was more friendly sounding name...lol..lol
The demand is there, they want it bad......lol

[psychbiker]

What's the size of your toaster oven if that's what you're using? I need to get or make another rack so I can bake two trays at a time. I also need to make a larger mesh screen cooling try to spread them out for drying after coats and baking.

[popper]

Coated ~500 cast 40 TC yesterday with liquid green today - but they came out brown! 2 coats. Passed smash & wipe fine, sizer removed coating. They feel kind of sticky. Mix is from last fall - added some acetone. Came out same color as gold 1035 ((both turn brown) so I assume that the color part doesn't 're-combine' well? Humidity reminds me of Panama but I did dry with fan and in PID conv. oven for 1 hr @ 180F for 1 hour. Probably done a couple thou. in the past with no problem.

[DerekP Houston]

Coated ~500 cast 40 TC yesterday with liquid green today - but they came out brown! 2 coats. Passed smash & wipe fine, sizer removed coating. They feel kind of sticky. Mix is from last fall - added some acetone. Came out same color as gold 1035 ((both turn brown) so I assume that the color part doesn't 're-combine' well? Humidity reminds me of Panama but I did dry with fan and in PID conv. oven for 1 hr @ 180F for 1 hour. Probably done a couple thou. in the past with no problem.

That has been my experience as well. I believe I am over cooking it a tad, I get a nice green color for the first 2 coats, then it turns a tad gold No complaints cause it works just fine even with the color a bit off. I switched to running my oven off a PID set to 400f as well. Gold, bronze, and black have been very reliable but I broke the jar the green came in so i'm trying to use it up first :D.

[Rompin Ruger]

Sticky? Sticky! Mine, when done, are slippery...I keep dropping them trying to put neatly in bullet boxes..

Something sounds off to be "sticky"... where's Hi-tec or Trevor when you need them? I've only ever used the Red Copper!

[DerekP Houston]

Mine aren't sticky at all, nice and slick to the touch. Just the pigment gets burned a tad by me forgetting the timer.

[Ausglock]

Never had Sticky.
Even when air dried prior to baking, they are not sticky.
I have used some red copper that was mixed back in Sept 2015 and sitting under my bench. It had settled out and needed a good shaking with a rattle bullet inside, Coated and baked fine. It had sat through Summer temps and still worked.

No Idea on Sticky.... Sorry.

[Echd]

So will mixed powder "keep"? Just add some acetone and go, I assume?

[popper]

Sticky as 80% humidity and 72F. Brought one inside with AC and it's dry like normal. 2nd coat had more tinge of green before baking, brown after. Same setup I've used for a couple years. Actually I added mix to the old last year and was OK colorwise, this time it goes brown. I'll probably just size and apply BLL when it gets dry here. I need to cast another batch and I will clean the bottle and use new mix. Basically wondering if the 'color' part of the stuff doesn't re-mix well. I did shake the heck out of it.

[Ausglock]

So will mixed powder "keep"? Just add some acetone and go, I assume?

If you have not had the container sealed correctly and need to add more Acetone, I'd suggest you throw it out and mix a new lot.
It will keep fine if the container is air tight. The colour will be darker as the coating does darken with age. But will still coat and shoot fine from my experience.

[bilco]

So from what I'm gathering a super light coating is the secret to passing the smash test with no flaking?

[HI-TEK]

So from what I'm gathering a super light coating is the secret to passing the smash test with no flaking?

You are partly correct. Thin coats initially is more crucial with first coat applications. These dry quickly, and have maximum adhesion when baked. First coat, must pass smash test and solvent tests first, before applying subsequent coats.
Subsequent coats can be applied thicker, as these will bond to first coat.
As long as first coat is baked adequately, and has bonded, all should be OK afterwards.

[DerekP Houston]

So will mixed powder "keep"? Just add some acetone and go, I assume?

Initially I kept mixing it for each batch and had poor results. it works MUCH better if you mix up a large batch and just add a touch of acetone when it gets a bit too heavy. I make a 1/2 qt at a time in my mason jar a bit on the thinner side per directions. With the lid on mine has lasted weeks (generally that's how long it takes me to use it up).

[popper]

I think I learned a lesson. I'll take my boolits in to be de-humidified before coating. Humidity was near dew point when I coated so damp boolits get coated and air dry - oops, coating captures the moisture. Also wondering, as this is a 3 part coating (cat, resin, color) if color is affected by moisture. What say ye Joe? Don't care about the color, do care about strength.

[DerekP Houston]

I think I learned a lesson. I'll take my boolits in to be de-humidified before coating. Humidity was near dew point when I coated so damp boolits get coated and air dry - oops, coating captures the moisture. Also wondering, as this is a 3 part coating (cat, resin, color) if color is affected by moisture. What say ye Joe? Don't care about the color, do care about strength.

oh hmmmm I hadn't considered humidity either. I know it affects PC coverage. I'll wait for the pro's down under to give us the skinny. Either way it is an excellent product that's saved me tons of time over picking up boolits with hemostats!

[popper]

Nothing wrong with his product, just trying to get it to work all the time. Learned fast about humidity and ASBBDT. I don't do it anymore.

[Avenger442]

Humidity has been 80-90% the last week and a half and temps in the 90s. The only relief is when it rains. Temp drops but when it stops the humidity is even worse. Must be the same or worse down in Louisiana where Donnie is. I know the instructions say don't coat in a closed space but I moved into the basement which has a dehumidifier running 24/7. Nice 50% humidity in there. Temperature is still 75 to 80 degrees in the basement so have a fan that blows on me. I also run a unit with a HEPA filter to keep fumes down when casting and coating.

What are the possible consequences of coating indoors? I worked for 40 years in construction areas with all kinds of smoke, fumes and dust so they don't really bother me as far as an annoyance. But I do understand the need for safety.

[bilco]

You are partly correct. Thin coats initially is more crucial with first coat applications. These dry quickly, and have maximum adhesion when baked. First coat, must pass smash test and solvent tests first, before applying subsequent coats.
Subsequent coats can be applied thicker, as these will bond to first coat.
As long as first coat is baked adequately, and has bonded, all should be OK afterwards.

So for the liquid hi-tek 2 what's the suggested ratios?

[slide]

5 parts color, 5-8 parts acetone, 1 part hardener

[Ausglock]

We get 80 to 85%RH and temps of 35 to 40 deg C. Coating in this environment still works. I have 4 fans blowing over the trays of coated bullets. 10 to 15 minutes and they are good to bake.
Just remember to still pre-warm them on top of the oven prior to baking. this helps displace moisture and raise the temp of the alloy before baking.

Coating indoors is the only way I do it. good ventilation is needed.

[HI-TEK]

[QUOTE=popper; What say ye Joe? Don't care about the color, do care about strength.[/QUOTE]


Popper,
Humidity problems are easily overcome.
Simply have your alloy pre-warmed about 10 degrees above ambient prior to coating. After coating, quickly, (especially with first coat) the residual warmth contained in alloy, will help dry coating much faster, and also minimise moisture pick up.

During the coating process, evaporation of solvent simply chills alloy, by up to 5 degrees Celsius, so it attracts moisture towards coating that is trying to dry.

The attracted moisture is trapped inside drying coating, (below skin that is formed), and this is majority of reasons why failures occur with smash tests after baking.
The trapped moisture, expands up to 1000 times plus, of its original volume, and simply lifts coating from alloy. The "lifted coating" exposed to heat, bakes OK, and cures, but is not bonded, so, it simply flakes off with smash tests.

[DerekP Houston]

Popper,
Humidity problems are easily overcome.
Simply have your alloy pre-warmed about 10 degrees above ambient prior to coating. After coating, quickly, (especially with first coat) the residual warmth contained in alloy, will help dry coating much faster, and also minimise moisture pick up.

During the coating process, evaporation of solvent simply chills alloy, by up to 5 degrees Celsius, so it attracts moisture towards coating that is trying to dry.

The attracted moisture is trapped inside drying coating, (below skin that is formed), and this is majority of reasons why failures occur with smash tests after baking.
The trapped moisture, expands up to 1000 times plus, of its original volume, and simply lifts coating from alloy. The "lifted coating" exposed to heat, bakes OK, and cures, but is not bonded, so, it simply flakes off with smash tests.

Ahhhhh that explains my first failure with black! Was a humid day when I tried and I did not preheat the bullets at all. Thanks for the follow up.

[Avenger442]

We rarely see the 104 F Ausglock mentioned but the humidity comes on strong during the summer sometimes. Worst temp I can remember was summer 1977 I think that was the right year. 108 in the shade. I was working outside on a warehouse project.

Started using the Dark Blue color today. Not having very much luck with it so far. Going to dump this batch, shake up the powder and have another go at it later this week. Really want the color in this one. I'm kind of like Popper, performance over looks is the important thing. All show and no go was never a good thing with me even when I was working with my cars. But I need some orange and blue bullets to annoy the Alabama fans at the range.

[HI-TEK]

[QUOTE=Avenger442;

Started using the Dark Blue color today. Not having very much luck with it so far. Going to dump this batch, shake up the powder and have another go at it later this week. Really want the color in this one. I'm kind of like Popper, performance over looks is the important thing. All show and no go was never a good thing with me even when I was working with my cars. But I need some orange and blue bullets to annoy the Alabama fans at the range.[/QUOTE]

Avenger,
That dark blue coating powder is very strong. The colour intensity is extremely high. Ausglock has diluted it 20g to 150 mls Acetone and it worked just great, using 6 mls of that mixture onto 250 projectiles, and baked at 200C. Picture is attached 170291
170290Also, we have a so called Orange, but turns out a desert sand colour after bake. Picture attached.

[Ausglock]

Avenger... The colour actually get stronger the longer you swirl.
20gms to 150ml Acetone worked best.

[Avenger442]

Thanks for the suggestions and photos guys. I had mixed it 20 mg to 110 ml. Will go to the 150 ml with next batch.

[DerekP Houston]

Is it just my eyes/screen? That blue above looks green in the picture to me.

Side note, I see you guys are using plastic bottles to store this in! Any particular kind that doesn't degrade or can I use anything handy? I'd hate to ruin another glass mason jar if I don't need to.

[slide]

I get mine at a beauty supply house. They have a good cap that seals well and are marked on the side for measuring. The last I bought was $1.50 each. They will handle acetone with no problem. If the stand up to the chemicals women put on their hair acetone is no problem. I will try to post a photo later but got to go now.

[DerekP Houston]

I get mine at a beauty supply house. They have a good cap that seals well and are marked on the side for measuring. The last I bought was $1.50 each. They will handle acetone with no problem. If the stand up to the chemicals women put on their hair acetone is no problem. I will try to post a photo later but got to go now.

Thanks! There is a wholesale type beauty place near the walmart I go to, I'll pop in and see what they have.

[wlkjr]

I've been using the plastic condiment bottles like restaurants use for mustard and ketchup. They tend to leak a little if you shake them hard but I just swirl it really well. I don't measure out the amount when coating. I do a short squirt and shake well in a covered plastic tub. This has worked well for me. I may need to check out the containers from a beauty supply house although the others work fine for me. I use 2 level tablespoons of powder with 3.5 oz. of acetone.
The blue above also looks greenish on my computer. Maybe it is just the lighting. I love the Candy Apple Red but am disappointed with the Zombi Green. I received some Dark Green yesterday along with Bronze 500. The Dark Green mixes well like the Red does. The Bronze mixes about like the Zombi Green; the pigment settling in about 15 seconds.

[slide]

I tried the condiment bottles, didn't like them. You can take some Teflon tape and wrap around the threads on the lids and will generally stop the leaks. One thing about the beauty supply bottles,you can tighten the lids up pretty tight. Don't go overboard with the tightening and use the tape and you will be good to go.

[popper]

Thanks Joe, I'm going to leave the boolits in the AC inside for a day, coat inside - cook outside.

[Ausglock]

The pop top juice bottles work great.
The colour is more blue than in the photo. That was taken on my phone at 9pm with fluro lights. When I took them out in the daylight, they were blue.

Try the Kryptonite Green when it gets there. Best coating/colour combo on the planet. That is why it's the only one I (Susan Island Bullets) use.:happy dance:

[ioon44]

I use dish soap bottles that hold 300 ml to 400 ml with a heavy snap on top with no leaks, these have lasted over a year so far.

One problem I have is the coating building up on the sides of my coating buckets then SWC bullets scrape too much coating off as they are poured on to the drying screens leaving a glob of coating on shoulder. More of a cosmetic problem as they size and shoot fine.

I have been putting straight acetone and bullets in the container and putting on a lid then swirling to get the excess coating out of the container. I would like to find a better way of cleaning out the container.

The Candy Apple Red seems to build up the worst, but it coats and shoots super great.

[popper]

I just use acetone to clean the coating jug, insures a good thin first coat. You could pour out any if it doesn't re-mix well.

[DerekP Houston]

I just use acetone to clean the coating jug, insures a good thin first coat. You could pour out any if it doesn't re-mix well.

I use a large plastic halloween candy bowl that was left over, wiping it out with acetone works great to remove different colors/buildup. Typically only happens when I use too much liquid, otherwise its just a light stain.

[Echd]

Coated a ton this past week. The reason I considered trying Hitek was because of a post popper made about the speed and ease of use. I have shot hitek bullets in the past with fine results. Now that I am casting and loading 1k+ a session, efficiency really matters to me! Hitek powder stomps PC from an ease of use and speed perspective, but I will keep pc for my rifle use.

[slide]

Echd, Good post! I agree that with pistol bullets Hi-tek is hands down the winner. I haven't coated any rifle bullets yet. I know some of the guys have had success using Hi-tek in rifle. About a month ago I coated 7000 pistol bullets in a weekend. Probably could have done them in a long day but,I am 64 years old no need to push it.

[DerekP Houston]

Yep, hi-tek is the winner for me at least. Bulk pistol rounds are much easier to coat and dump to bake. I still enjoy using PC though for different colors and just playing around. If I was using it in 9mm or another high pressure round I might have issues, but so far so good!

[Avenger442]

I have coated and shot hundreds of rounds in four different rifles with Hi Tek. My 308 will do better groups with Hi Tek than it will do with Remington core lock. The only thing that I have shot that will do better in my rifles is Federal Gold Match. In my 308 that is 1 inch vs. 1 1/2 inch. shot from a lead sled at 100 yards. In the 223 it's about the same difference. I have not shot anything but some Winchester and Remington in the 44 magnum rifle and the Hi Tek has been at least as good as those. I've shot one grain short of max loads with Hi Tek in all of them but, as usual, that was not the most accurate load. The only time I had any leading was when I used some bullets that were too soft with no gas check and loaded a high pressure load. And that was in the last inch of one of the 308 barrels.

My original objective with Hi Tek was to cast and coat bullets for hunting that would do as good as or better than what I could go down to Wal-Mart and buy. I achieved that and wouldn't hesitate to take my rifles on a hunt with the Hi Tek coated bullets.

Now you guys have got me off shooting pistolas and I haven't loaded and shot any Hi Tek in rifle at the range in several months. Not complaining it's been fun. I still have some of those 1 1/2" loads for the 308 just in case I ever see a deer during hunting season. But they only seem to show up when I don't have my gun or it's the wrong time of the year.

[psychbiker]

Do you guys have separate containers to tumble yours? Or do you clean out the container right after you use it? I had a red turn purple because I previously used the container for black.

Think I'll go to the dollar store and get several $1 2gt tubs, especially for zombie green as any color remaining seems to mess that up.

[psychbiker]

I tried the condiment bottles, didn't like them. You can take some Teflon tape and wrap around the threads on the lids and will generally stop the leaks. One thing about the beauty supply bottles,you can tighten the lids up pretty tight. Don't go overboard with the tightening and use the tape and you will be good to go.

Bought 4 nail polish remover bottles from the dollar store. Emptied the contents into a mason jar and not have 4 thick plastic bottles that hold several ounces. I need to get a longer syringe that will do 5ml. I'm using a small syringe that only does 1ml at a time. It's easy to measure but a pain tilting the bottle and drawing out 1ml 7 times when I'm tumbling 7lbs of bullets.

[DerekP Houston]

Do you guys have separate containers to tumble yours? Or do you clean out the container right after you use it? I had a red turn purple because I previously used the container for black.

Think I'll go to the dollar store and get several $1 2gt tubs, especially for zombie green as any color remaining seems to mess that up.

I use the same giant mixing bowl for all of them. If I'm not careful to clean it out with acetone there is occasional build up. Just makes it easier for me to do large batches. A rag with acetone will wipe off anything not baked on, I'll do that before I switch colors.

[slide]

I use separate container for each color. They are plastic ice cream pails.

[HI-TEK]

I use separate container for each color. They are plastic ice cream pails.

Slide,
Many years ago, a commercial caster, was using 2 liter milk bottles to coat. They were putting in about 200-250 in each, then, adding diluted coating mixture, put on lid, and shake coated, and dumped in wire mesh to dry.
I remember seeing about 20 such bottles on a bench, and husband and wife working their way along the bench shake coating and dumping. It was an amazing to watch, they were like robots.
After dumping, there was very little left inside bottles. These bottles were I suppose made from Poly Ethylene or similar and coating seemed not to stick so much.
They were also very sparing with coating additions as well. With narrow lid opening
( about 11/4 inch internal diameter), and screw lid, any coating remaining inside bottles was used up with next lot, and small amounts of coating mixture, remained liquid inside bottle..

[slide]

It is amazing the techniques people come up with. That would have been something to see!

[wlkjr]

Glad XL plastic containers for food storage, clear with blue tops. Very little coating sticks to it. Cheap from Walmart, stack inside when not in use. I use one for each color. If you put the lid on and swirl for about 20-30 seconds then take the lid off, another 10 seconds and they're ready to dump.

[Ausglock]

Well. I'm working on the motorised rotary coater.
Did a benchtop proof of concept today.
Will weld it up tomorrow hopefully.
Will post a video when done.

[slide]

You and Gremlin remind me of MacGyver. Know who that is?

[HI-TEK]

You and Gremlin remind me of MacGyver. Know who that is?

I call him Mc Givver, and he is my favorite con man, he can do every thing, with nothing at all lol lol

[Ausglock]

Have Leatherman... will build.

[slide]

You got it!!!!!!!!!!

[slide]

Ausglock,I sent you a PM

[Ausglock]

replied....

[Humbo]

A quick question for you Hitek gurus out there. Can the boolits be too hard for Hitek to work properly? I've quenched some of my 9mm after the second bake, and they come out as high as 27-28 BHN. Is it too hard? I use fat boolits in my 9mm pistols, sized to .358. My Sig X-six is spotless, but an STI is starting to show some minor leading. I don't remember if I had any leading with 12-13BHN in the same gun. I know hardball @ 15-16BHN is recommended, but is too hard just as bad as too soft as far as Hitek is concerned?

[Ausglock]

Not sure. But if the BHN is too high for the pressure produced, you may not get the deformation of the bullet base to seal the bore. Thus causing gas blow-by and gas cutting of the bullet and coating. Sigs and Berettas seem to like larger dia bullets.

[Gremlin460]

You and Gremlin remind me of MacGyver. Know who that is?

Necessity is the mother of all inventions. Just be thankfull Trev and I live as far apart as we do, if we were neighbours all hell would probably break loose. Also, if you think we are bad, we pale in the shadow of JMorris !!! Trust me that man is in a league of his own!!

[Ausglock]

Necessity is the mother of all inventions. Just be thankfull Trev and I live as far apart as we do, if we were neighbours all hell would probably break loose. Also, if you think we are bad, we pale in the shadow of JMorris !!! Trust me that man is in a league of his own!!

I bow to the one true living God of invention, JMorris...
We are not worthy.

I will be posting a video of the auto coater shortly.
Next project is to mount a Mr Bullet feeder with a rotary bullet flipper and feed my home made sizer.

[Ausglock]

For all you lot asking "how do I know if my bullets are dry enough to bake".
Here is my setup. It is a store display stand with 5 wire shelves. The small fan heater lays on the top shelf, blowing warm air down onto the next shelf.
The next 2 trays of bullets to be baked are directly below it, warming up.
The bullets are warmer than my hand to touch, so they are higher than the ambient temp.
http://i193.photobucket.com/albums/z222/glock40sw/Mobile%20Uploads/20160619_101703.jpg (http://s193.photobucket.com/user/glock40sw/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20160619_101703.jpg.html)

Once they are baked. They get placed under a box fan to cool. This takes about 4 minutes.
Then they can be given the second coat.
http://i193.photobucket.com/albums/z222/glock40sw/Mobile%20Uploads/20160619_101733.jpg (http://s193.photobucket.com/user/glock40sw/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20160619_101733.jpg.html)

As for what to use to mix the coating in...
The pop top juice bottle contains Kryptonite Green Powder mixture. This gets dribbled onto the bullets to coat.
The clear screwtop bottle contains Kryptonite Green Liquid mixture. This get measured with the Syringe (6mls) to coat.
http://i193.photobucket.com/albums/z222/glock40sw/Mobile%20Uploads/20160619_101723.jpg (http://s193.photobucket.com/user/glock40sw/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20160619_101723.jpg.html)

As you can see. 2 trays in the oven. 2 1/2 minutes into the bake cycle and the oven is maintaining the 200Deg C set temp.
http://i193.photobucket.com/albums/z222/glock40sw/Mobile%20Uploads/20160619_101742.jpg (http://s193.photobucket.com/user/glock40sw/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20160619_101742.jpg.html)

Here is the Auto coater I just finished building... Video to follow.
http://i193.photobucket.com/albums/z222/glock40sw/20160619_130749.jpg (http://s193.photobucket.com/user/glock40sw/media/20160619_130749.jpg.html)

[Teknikal]

Great stuff ausglock, do u preheat your oven?

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

[Ausglock]

Great stuff ausglock, do u preheat your oven?

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

Yep. Sure do. It takes about 5 minutes to heat up to 200Deg C.

[dikman]

It's a plastic bucket in a wire waste-paper bin! I was expecting something a bit more........umm...elaborate [smilie=l:.

And where's the duct tape? McGuyver always uses duct tape!

[Ausglock]

Here is the video of the auto coater.
Dikman. The KISS principle.....:drinks:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pivGTOPi_CU&feature=youtu.be

[slide]

Well done mate!!!!!!!! Always wanted to say that.

[Echd]

For general interest:

Currently Walmart's little grilling section you might see as you walk into the store has these little racks for sale. They cost about ~1.60 each and you can fit two per rack of a standard toaster oven (you might have to sit one slightly at an angle if your oven is smaller than mine but it won't cause a problem... I checked). I bought 8, so I can have 4 in the oven and 4 drying. They seem to provide adequate ventilation as verified through an oven thermometer maintaining even temps throughout my oven. It is a convection oven so it should anyway.

http://i.imgur.com/mbTXpcg.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/6eogUvs.jpg

Lee 358-158RFs, 4.2 gr of titegroup in a 357 mag and you have a super accurate load even little kids can enjoy...

[DerekP Houston]

WOW that's the color I'm trying to get my zombie green to look like. I'll take a look in the grilling section thanks, my tray is getting quite beat up.

[psychbiker]

http://i.imgur.com/mbTXpcg.jpg



Can you measure these pans for us? I was jut about to order another rack replacement, be like $18 shipped for 2. This would be cheaper if they fit. I might drill some more holes for more hot air circulation.

[Echd]

These trays measure 10"x7".

[psychbiker]

These trays measure 10"x7".

Just bought 3 of them, can't beat the price. Came home and they are too big. I got the medium ones, only ones they had, and are roughly 13"x9". Weak!!

I might keep them for cooling racks. Havent decided. Calling the other two walmarts that are worth driving might be a pain, they rarely are able to find stuff on the phone.

[dikman]

Dikman. The KISS principle.....:drinks:

No worries, cobber, I like it. Being able to just slip the bucket in and out without "locking" it in place is neat. I don't do enough to warrant making something like that otherwise I would.

Bloody kangaroos are everywhere (nearly as many deer too these days). No drop bears on your property?[smilie=1:

[Ausglock]

No drop bears, The Yowies ate them out.

[slide]

Any of you guys ever seen a Yowie? We call them bigfoot or sasquatch over here. I've never saw one but have talked to quite a few people who claim to have spotted one.

[Ausglock]

There is one getting around here where I live. A lot of people have seen it. I saw it just off the edge of the road one night. A dog disappears every now and then. Cats too. road kill Roos normally keep him fed. We put it down to the Yowie

[slide]

Amazing!!!!!!!!

[Avenger442]

My wife and a friend of hers were on their way to work one night and saw a tall harry creature standing on the side of the road. They swear it wasn't a bear. I've always thought it was some guy trying out his new camouflage Gillie suit.


Trev
Tried your suggestion about bright sunlight and the blue.
170636 170637

They still look a more black. Looks like coating too thick on SWC. This is three coats.

Trying to get back on this but two family members going back and forth to the Doctor this week.

Going to shake up/ stir up the powder dilute with more acetone and have another go at it. I don't think I can reduce temp or time because I was getting a little color on test after bake.

[Rich22]

For all you lot asking "how do I know if my bullets are dry enough to bake".
Here is my setup. It is a store display stand with 5 wire shelves. The small fan heater lays on the top shelf, blowing warm air down onto the next shelf.
The next 2 trays of bullets to be baked are directly below it, warming up.
The bullets are warmer than my hand to touch, so they are higher than the ambient temp.
http://i193.photobucket.com/albums/z222/glock40sw/Mobile%20Uploads/20160619_101703.jpg (http://s193.photobucket.com/user/glock40sw/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20160619_101703.jpg.html)

Once they are baked. They get placed under a box fan to cool. This takes about 4 minutes.
Then they can be given the second coat.
http://i193.photobucket.com/albums/z222/glock40sw/Mobile%20Uploads/20160619_101733.jpg (http://s193.photobucket.com/user/glock40sw/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20160619_101733.jpg.html)

As for what to use to mix the coating in...
The pop top juice bottle contains Kryptonite Green Powder mixture. This gets dribbled onto the bullets to coat.
The clear screwtop bottle contains Kryptonite Green Liquid mixture. This get measured with the Syringe (6mls) to coat.
http://i193.photobucket.com/albums/z222/glock40sw/Mobile%20Uploads/20160619_101723.jpg (http://s193.photobucket.com/user/glock40sw/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20160619_101723.jpg.html)

As you can see. 2 trays in the oven. 2 1/2 minutes into the bake cycle and the oven is maintaining the 200Deg C set temp.
http://i193.photobucket.com/albums/z222/glock40sw/Mobile%20Uploads/20160619_101742.jpg (http://s193.photobucket.com/user/glock40sw/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20160619_101742.jpg.html)

Here is the Auto coater I just finished building... Video to follow.
http://i193.photobucket.com/albums/z222/glock40sw/20160619_130749.jpg (http://s193.photobucket.com/user/glock40sw/media/20160619_130749.jpg.html)

I may want Jmorris's auto caster and autosizer but you have the best oven I believe I have ever seen. I need to come up with a general parts list for something like that and start work on one. Really nice

[Warhead]

Hello, this is my first post on Castboolits, I have been using Candy Apple Red, and Red Copper, for awhile now with great success, but am having a problem with the new Dark Blue, it keeps turning green, like the green pictured by Ausglock.

I am using 20gms of powder to 150ml of acetone, 3 thin coats and have tried baking anywhere form 10-12 minutes at 400 degrees Fahrenheit.

All bullets pass both the smash and wipe test and shoot great, but the color is wrong. I am normally pretty good at figuring out what I did wrong but this one has me puzzled.

Thanks for the help
Warhead

[Avenger442]

Hello, this is my first post on Castboolits, I have been using Candy Apple Red, and Red Copper, for awhile now with great success, but am having a problem with the new Dark Blue, it keeps turning green, like the green pictured by Ausglock.

I am using 20gms of powder to 150ml of acetone, 3 thin coats and have tried baking anywhere form 10-12 minutes at 400 degrees Fahrenheit.

All bullets pass both the smash and wipe test and shoot great, but the color is wrong. I am normally pretty good at figuring out what I did wrong but this one has me puzzled.

Thanks for the help
Warhead

I'm working on this color too. Noticed the green look after the first bake. But just put it down to seeing the lead through the coating. The color kept getting darker for me and left the green look. I smash test on a white paper towel sitting on the anvil of my bench vice. After 10 min. bake a little of the color was coming off on the towel. It was blue. And I had gotten a little bit of color on the wipe test also blue. There are two reasons I can think of for this color coming off. Bake time and temp would be one and the other would be an improper mix of color and catalyst in the powder. So I tried a longer bake at 12 min. same results. This tells me that the coating on the bullets is actually blue after cure but it looks almost black on my bullets.

Since it has been noted in the past that the powder can settle out with the catalyst settling to the bottom (I think) during shipping I was going to stir and shake up the powder, dilute the mixture more with the acetone and go to the open tumble. And have another go at it to see if I could resolve the color coming of during wipe and smash test and maybe lighten up the color. Wish this color was lighter maybe Joe can do something to lighten it up. As time allows I might try mixing colors to see if I can lighten it up. I have some larger .44s that might give me a better look as far as color. The others were for the 38 and 357.

Will work on it again but tied up right now with other matters.

By the way welcome to the forum Warhead.

Dennis

[Ausglock]

G'day Warhead.
Mate. Welcome to the funhouse..

The dark Blue can be problematic.As Avenger stated... The powder can settle during transport. When you get it, remove the lid and stir the powder with a wire etc. I use a welding rod. The green colour tells me that it has settled. The dark blue is extremely dark (almost black).
Bake time of 12 minutes with a mix of 20gms to 150lms works for me in a benchtop oven. In my modified wall oven, 7 1/2 mins gets the job done.

You state that it passes the wipe and smash tests and shoots fine. This tells me you are doing everything right. just try stirring the powder.
Remember to shake the hell out of the coating before actually coating the bullets. this coating darkens the longer you swirl. try a longer swirl too.
Get back to us?

[psychbiker]

How would storing my mix (powder and acetone) stand up to this silicone sealed jar? Been reading that the acetone may eat the silicone seal.

Marhsalls has a 4pack of 8.5oz glass versions. They are wide mouth and short, perfect for using my 1ml syringe.

170714

[Ausglock]

How would storing my mix (powder and acetone) stand up to this silicone sealed jar? Been reading that the acetone may eat the silicone seal.

Marhsalls has a 4pack of 8.5oz glass versions. They are wide mouth and short, perfect for using my 1ml syringe.

170714....try them. See what happens

[HI-TEK]

[QUOTE=Ausglock;3685945]G'day Warhead.
Mate. Welcome to the funhouse..

The dark Blue can be problematic.As Avenger stated...

The ingredients, are unique and strange in behaviour.
My initial suggestion is, to put projectiles into a sealed container containing well mixed measure of required coating.
Put on lid, and shake shake shake. The colour develops with tumbling effects of the projectiles. The colour should become more blue/ darker. Then, simply dump and dry.
Because mixing is done in sealed container, solvent should not evaporate quickly and allow total colour to develop & cover, with amount of blue mixture being used.

[Warhead]

Thanks for the tip fellers, I didn't know powder could settle in the jar. I think I am going to go try stirring it up now! LOL :p

Also I always make sure to shake the container very well with a couple of bullets in there to help mix it.

[Warhead]

[QUOTE=Ausglock;3685945]G'day Warhead.
Mate. Welcome to the funhouse..

The dark Blue can be problematic.As Avenger stated...

The ingredients, are unique and strange in behaviour.
My initial suggestion is, to put projectiles into a sealed container containing well mixed measure of required coating.
Put on lid, and shake shake shake. The colour develops with tumbling effects of the projectiles. The colour should become more blue/ darker. Then, simply dump and dry.
Because mixing is done in sealed container, solvent should not evaporate quickly and allow total colour to develop & cover, with amount of blue mixture being used.

Oh O.K. will try that a swell as stirring up the powder. when I have been applying it in a open container it is more like a super bright electric blue, then after baking turns green.

[Ausglock]

A G'n'R fan \m/ hoowoo.
What do you think of Axle fronting Acca Dacca...

[Warhead]

O.k. stirred powder, and shook for about 30 seconds in a sealed jug, it is most surely better, still more green then blue but much much darker so I think next batch, I will shake for like 45 seconds in the container before dumping to dry.

Also Axl AC/DC is pretty awesome I think.

[Warhead]

hmmm still coming out greenish, very dark now though, I think maybe I will try baking for like 15 minutes just to see what will happen.
I already tried shortening the time to 8 minutes but that made it come out a really like green and fail the wipe test....

I am going to try and take some pictures so ya'll can see what is happening.

[HI-TEK]

hmmm still coming out greenish, very dark now though, I think maybe I will try baking for like 15 minutes just to see what will happen.
I already tried shortening the time to 8 minutes but that made it come out a really like green and fail the wipe test....

I am going to try and take some pictures so ya'll can see what is happening.

It will be interesting what you find. 8 minutes is definitely not enough cook.
As I said, this Blue is new and has some unusual properties.
My guess at this stage is, that more baking will make it darker, but possibly the colour may also go towards dark green shade.

[wlkjr]

Have y'all ever considered some kind of primer coat?

[HI-TEK]

Have y'all ever considered some kind of primer coat?


That concept was considered many years ago. The problem is, that primers, that bonded to Lead alloys were too soft, and were affected by heat. So, when using the Hi-Tek coated over these primers, the primers simply let go, and coatings peeled off exposing the Lead.
That is why it was decided that the Hi-Tek should be suitable as a primer and also a main coating.
A diluted version of Hi-Tek will certainly act as a primer that subsequent Hi-Tek coatings will stick to.

[Warhead]

It will be interesting what you find. 8 minutes is definitely not enough cook.
As I said, this Blue is new and has some unusual properties.
My guess at this stage is, that more baking will make it darker, but possibly the colour may also go towards dark green shade.


Well, it's already there, so I have nothing to lose, and besides that isn't trying crazy ideas out half the fun? :p

I was also thinking of diluting it down to 20gm to 200ml of acetone to maybe give me a even longer swirl time?

[Ausglock]

Add White spirit (Metho) to the acetone. eg: 20gms powder to 80mls Acetone and 20mls Metho. this will slow down the coating and give a longer swirl time.

[Avenger442]

I believe Joe can work with the blue to eventually get it so I can irritate my University of Alabama friends at the range. It appears that the performance of these bullets will be the same as always. Loading up about 50 of them tomorrow.

My Granddaughters shot about 200 rounds of 38 spl. coated with Bronze 500 and 50 rounds of 44 magnum coated with Black 1035 yesterday. I brought the 22 rifle but no one wanted to shoot it. They had a ball taking over my pistols. I only got to shoot a few rounds. They used up all the ammo. I bet their hands and arms are sore today.

[HI-TEK]

Well, it's already there, so I have nothing to lose, and besides that isn't trying crazy ideas out half the fun? :p

I was also thinking of diluting it down to 20gm to 200ml of acetone to maybe give me a even longer swirl time?

Ausglock, has already used successfully 20gms to 150 mls. So there is no reason why 20gms to 200mls wont work.
The 20gms to 150 mls, was also a dark colour, but I dont know what you will get with the larger dilution. You now are exploring new territory. Good luck and post your results..

[Warhead]

Will do, I get back to ya'll in the morning with pics and see what happens with it a little lighter.;)

[Rompin Ruger]

colors are nice, but performance is key...only used red copper for hot .45 colt loads, andbought some .40 bullets to try before getting molds, sizers, etc. now shoulder surgery got me doing zip. but soon as i ironed out a few "operator errors", red cop worked splendid

[Rompin Ruger]

red cop coated bought bullets, i should add, for the .40. left hand typing suks

[Avenger442]

Glad to see you made it through Ruger.

Typed this left handed. Your right, it's slow.

I wonder how slow I would be if I draw and fire my Redhawk with my left hand. One handed with the 44 at 25 yards. Probably wouldn't hit the target.

[Echd]

You just need to use a bigger target.

[Warhead]

colors are nice, but performance is key...only used red copper for hot .45 colt loads, andbought some .40 bullets to try before getting molds, sizers, etc. now shoulder surgery got me doing zip. but soon as i ironed out a few "operator errors", red cop worked splendid

You would, of course be correct. But be that as it may, I like having different colors to choose from. :smile:

Now I have always had great luck with both Red Copper, and Candy Apple red, even pushing Candy Apple 2000 fps in a 9X25 Dillon using Bluedot and a 90gn cast boolit.

[Avenger442]

You just need to use a bigger target.

Side of the barn right?

[jeep45238]

Or dry fire...

[Ausglock]

You would, of course be correct. But be that as it may, I like having different colors to choose from. :smile:

Now I have always had great luck with both Red Copper, and Candy Apple red, even pushing Candy Apple 2000 fps in a 9X25 Dillon using Bluedot and a 90gn cast boolit.

What gun you running the 9x25 dillon in?
I run a Glock 35 in 357Sig. Ray Pulver (Lissner) Barrel
Best velocity I got was with a 105SWC at 1900fps 199 Power factor.. Just a bit snappy. Used AP-70. I think that is Hodgdon universal in the USA.

[Warhead]

What gun you running the 9x25 dillon in?
I run a Glock 35 in 357Sig. Ray Pulver (Lissner) Barrel
Best velocity I got was with a 105SWC at 1900fps 199 Power factor.. Just a bit snappy. Used AP-70. I think that is Hodgdon universal in the USA.

Two guns, a custom Caspian with a 5.5 inch SVI barrel and 9 port comp (built by yours truly. ;) ), and a Glock G20 with the Lone Wolf 6 inch ported barrel.


******WARNING*****
If you have access to Bluedot, if start low, and work your way up you could get to some pretty impressive number in a strong gun like the 1911 with a fully supported barrel with a really tight chamber and a case full of Bluedot.

[Ausglock]

Constructive afternoon. Playing with nose down on a Mr Bullet feeder.

Works great. Just need to mount it and fit a feeder tube to the sizer.

http://i193.photobucket.com/albums/z222/glock40sw/feeder/th_20160625_165011.mp4 (http://i193.photobucket.com/albums/z222/glock40sw/feeder/20160625_165011.mp4)

Youtube video. better quality.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TboulPToLAo

[HI-TEK]

Constructive afternoon. Playing with nose down on a Mr Bullet feeder.

Works great. Just need to mount it and fit a feeder tube to the sizer.

http://i193.photobucket.com/albums/z222/glock40sw/feeder/th_20160625_165011.mp4 (http://i193.photobucket.com/albums/z222/glock40sw/feeder/20160625_165011.mp4)

Youtube video. better quality.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TboulPToLAo

That is a masterpiece. Well done, Simple design but very efficient.

[zomby woof]

Constructive afternoon. Playing with nose down on a Mr Bullet feeder.

Works great. Just need to mount it and fit a feeder tube to the sizer.

http://i193.photobucket.com/albums/z222/glock40sw/feeder/th_20160625_165011.mp4 (http://i193.photobucket.com/albums/z222/glock40sw/feeder/20160625_165011.mp4)

Youtube video. better quality.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TboulPToLAo


What prevents the bullets from falling down base first?

[popper]

The powder can settle during transport
Wonder if our suppliers here in the US stir the powder before repackaging? 3 particulate components that can settle? How do you shake a 55gal drum? In an aside, I've been testing cooked BHN vs as cast. Conclude that we never get back near 'as cast' BHN, even WD'd. Doesn't seem to make any difference to my 40SW, am about to test rifle.

[leadman]

I would not use Blue Dot except for current published data from Alliant. I spoke with the Ballistic guy (Ben?) at Alliant when they came out with the restrictions on BD for the 125gr bullet in the 357 mag and to not load any loads in the 41 mag. Seems BD is a very sensitive powder and a minor change can cause problems. Alliant did get pressure results that they concerned enough with to post the warnings. I did get his approval of a load in my 41 mag. but it is nowhere near max and uses a boolit.
There were, and probably still are, shooters using this in bottlenecked cartridges of small bore size. Problems did arise and I did see a couple of barrels that had blown up with loads that previously had given low pressure results.
I used BD for years but when I ran out of the Hercules made BD and switched to the Alliant BD I noticed an immediate change in my loads. Even had some flattened primers in loads that previously had shown no pressure signs and the sound of the load was different.

[Avenger442]

Popper
The best I can remember gaining with water drop after coat was 2 BHN. The alloy can make a difference, as someone pointed out to me.

Leadman
I've been having some issues with 38 special and Titegroup. When loading it with the progressive press my powder measure will occasionally throw a 4.8 instead of a 4.5 (need to find the problem). That .3 extra in 38 seems to be an inordinate amount of kick when fired. Since I'm relative new to loading pistol and to the Titegroup, is it normal for .3 grains to make a big difference? It was enough pressure to give me some leading in the last 1/4" of the barrel. Not a big deal to clean.

[DerekP Houston]

Popper
The best I can remember gaining with water drop after coat was 2 BHN. The alloy can make a difference, as someone pointed out to me.

Leadman
I've been having some issues with 38 special and Titegroup. When loading it with the progressive press my powder measure will occasionally throw a 4.8 instead of a 4.5 (need to find the problem). That .3 extra in 38 seems to be an inordinate amount of kick when fired. Since I'm relative new to loading pistol and to the Titegroup, is it normal for .3 grains to make a big difference? It was enough pressure to give me some leading in the last 1/4" of the barrel. Not a big deal to clean.

load data for titegroup is extremely limited in range. a standard 158gr SWC has a variance of .6gr from min to max, so .3gr is enough to make a large difference in recoil felt especially if you were on the top end of load data already. I'm *ok* with it as I typically shoot those rounds from a larger frame 357 anyways that is fine with the increased preasure.

[popper]

Avenger - I start with an alloy that is 11, cooking drops it to ~8, both AC. After a week for hardening. Makes sense, I just never bothered to check it before.

[Avenger442]

Derek
I too shoot my 38 loads out of a 357 a Ruger GP 100. But my wife has a S&W Air Light that she carries. I'm going to have to hand measure those and make sure she doesn't get them mixed up with the others. I'm not sure the S&W or my wife could handle them even though it says it is rated for +P.

The worst thing is it messed up my no leading record with the Hi Tek. I only had one time out of thousands of loads. Now I have two. The first time the pressure exceeded the BHN of the lead. It looks like it might have happened again. Both were minor but still leading.

Popper
My wheel weight alloy with tin usually runs about 11-12 BHN air cooled. And I can get it up to 17 with water drop after cast. Best I can do after coat and water drop is 14 as I remember.To do that I have to water drop at cast and water drop at each coat. All measured two weeks after. In most cases, it's just not worth the trouble.

[Ausglock]

What prevents the bullets from falling down base first?

There is a tiny ledge that the bullet base rides over. it is small enough that the nose of the bullet slides off the ledge.

[Rich22]

There is a tiny ledge that the bullet base rides over. it is small enough that the nose of the bullet slides off the ledge.
If you have close up pictures that would be great. I was going to do a flipper but if can do a nose down drop that would be much better.

[666damosydney]

Hitec Joe pm sent mate

[Gremlin460]

There is a tiny ledge that the bullet base rides over. it is small enough that the nose of the bullet slides off the ledge.

let me know how reliable it turns out to be,one of the hardest things has been to get a reliable nose down feeder that will do various profiles of casts.

[Ausglock]

Grem. I have tried it with 9mm...125Con, 135RN, 170RN, 150RNFP, 168CON FP.
40 178RNFP, 45 230RN.
All work fine. The hole had to be made bigger for the 40 and 45 pills. if the feeder plate was too fast, the bullets would jam.

Going to try a different plate this weekend. Hole located closer to the left and a sawtooth type drop off ledge to turn the bullets.

[Redwoode]

Is there any general consensus regarding the shelf life of cured Hi-Tek coating passing tests on casts in storage prior to loading? How about thoughts on best storage too?

Thanks

[Avenger442]

Is there any general consensus regarding the shelf life of cured Hi-Tek coating passing tests on casts in storage prior to loading? How about thoughts on best storage too?

Thanks

I have some 44 magnum I shot last week that were coated about two years ago and did fine. I don't see why it wouldn't last 20-25 years. Maybe Hi Tek Joe or Ausglock can chime in on this one. They have had the coating in Australia for about 20 years I understand.

171252 Dark blue first coat not baked. Looks thin enough to me. Stirred and shook up the powder just in case it had settled. Added 200 ml acetone this time. 2ml of coating on 2 pounds of bullets. I used the same bucket to tumble in as the last batch and I think they picked up some of the blue left in the bucket. Just a thin coat of it along the walls. This was an open tumble not my usual closed tumble.

Also mixed up some of the liquid Gold 1035 with some of the powder Dark Blue. Interesting color in the bottle. Have not tried to coat with it but it doesn't look like it's going to be blue.

[HI-TEK]

[QUOTE=Avenger442;3694479]I have some 44 magnum I shot last week that were coated about two years ago and did fine. I don't see why it wouldn't last 20-25 years. Maybe Hi Tek Joe or Ausglock can chime in on this one. They have had the coating in Australia for about 20 years I understand.

Avenger,
When these coatings are baked, to meet end use requirements, it becomes a very inert highly cross linked system.
As witnessed, before heat cure, it is freely soluble in solvents. After bake, it resists most all materials and does not seem to be affected even with re-baking.
We are aware, that longer baking darkens coating, and, the heat setting/crosslinking, is pushed much more to completion.
With this high density cross-linking with baking, the material becomes very stable and appears non-fusible.
This can be seen with baked coated alloy being placed onto molten alloy. The coating seems to hold its shape after the alloy had melted from the coating encapsulation and does not appear to melt as with other coatings. It is also demonstrated with video as produced by Gateway, where coated alloy and non coated alloy is heated with a gas burner torch. (attached is link to several videos..
https://youtu.be/9ru_NYp7Y6c ,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=svu6oHcd7d0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=svu6oHcd7d0&authuser=0 )
I have no records to provide storage stability of coated cured coatings, as most ammo is used well inside time you indicated.

[Ausglock]

I have some coated bullets here that were produced by a commercial maker about 1998 40cal 180gn FP.
loaded and fired them 2 weeks ago. Perfect in Glock35.

[Warhead]

I have some 44 magnum I shot last week that were coated about two years ago and did fine. I don't see why it wouldn't last 20-25 years. Maybe Hi Tek Joe or Ausglock can chime in on this one. They have had the coating in Australia for about 20 years I understand.

171252 Dark blue first coat not baked. Looks thin enough to me. Stirred and shook up the powder just in case it had settled. Added 200 ml acetone this time. 2ml of coating on 2 pounds of bullets. I used the same bucket to tumble in as the last batch and I think they picked up some of the blue left in the bucket. Just a thin coat of it along the walls. This was an open tumble not my usual closed tumble.

Also mixed up some of the liquid Gold 1035 with some of the powder Dark Blue. Interesting color in the bottle. Have not tried to coat with it but it doesn't look like it's going to be blue.

I have had good luck here with it at that ratio, but still coming out more a dark blackish/green then blue.

[andre3k]

Any suggestions on converting a small cement mixer to coat bullets? I have 9k 158gr SWC's and the plastic buckets I'm using now will seem to take forever.

[Ausglock]

you see the vid of the one I built??

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pivGTOPi_CU

[andre3k]

That's pretty much what I was looking for. I'm not much of a fabricator so a concrete mixer of some sort is my only option. It gives me some ideas though.

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk

[Avenger442]

That's pretty much what I was looking for. I'm not much of a fabricator so a concrete mixer of some sort is my only option. It gives me some ideas though.

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk

Understand that some of the commercial coaters use a cement mixer with a five gallon bucket stuck in it. Seems like I remember a post some time ago about someone buying one at Harbor Freight.

[Ausglock]

More mods to the Bullet feeder. Now in the Special Projects section.
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?310438-Nose-down-Bullet-feeder

[Avenger442]

I was finally able to do some more on the Dark Blue coating.

This is a measured amount of powder with 200 ml instead of 100 ml of acetone baked at 200 C +/- 2 C for 10 minutes. Measured precisely 1 ml of coating per pound of bullets. Open tumbled not my usual closed lid tumble.

171513 First coat 171514 After first bake 171515 Second coat 171516 Second bake


171517 Third coat 171518 Third bake 171519 Fourth coat 171520 Fourth bake

Last color is still a blue green on the bullets but more blue than green.

I had small amount of coating come off on 30 second wipe test. 171521 As you can see the color on the cloth is blue but looks blue green on bullet.

Wanted a color closer to the color they are when first coated. 171522 This is a comparison of second bake and color left in the bowl used to tumble.

[Avenger442]

These are bullets baked my normal way in the Dark Blue with measured powder and 100 ml. acetone three coats. Just squirt a little in the bowl close the lid and tumble for about 30 seconds then dump to dry. Baked at 200 C +/- for 12 minutes. Some are loaded and ready to shoot. Will get back with results.

171523

As you can see coating is thicker a little textured on some and looks a little more blue than green to me.

I think I'll add a fifth and sixth coat to the bullets being coated with the 200 ml mix to see if I can get more blue. I don't understand why it rubs off blue and looks blue green on bullets.

All photos were taken under a LED shop light.

[Avenger442]

OK Shot some of the Dark Blue bullets from my last post in 357 magnum full house loads today. As I suspected, they performed great. No leading and accuracy as good as I can shoot. Shot 100 rounds in these and about 75 in 44 magnum. Had to stop the 44 magnums half way through the last 50. They were different loads than the first fifty and it looks like I might have put a little too much in them and split a case and flattened some primers. But by my measure I was .5 grains under max. My hand was getting numb I guess and I didn't feel the unusual hard kick:bigsmyl2::bigsmyl2::bigsmyl2:. I'm going to have to back it down a full grain or more. The 44s were coated with Black 1035 powder. Still no leading in the barrel.

[DerekP Houston]

to whomever mentioned the tip about the beauty salon squirt bottles, THANK YOU! Still adjusting my powder mix (I spilled some pouring it in) but it was much easier to apply and less messy. I did send my wife to go buy them though..... :guilty:

[slide]

You are welcome!

[psychbiker]

Are those bottles ok to store acetone in?

I'm looking for mason jar lids that are acetone safe and air tight. Currently use empty nail poilish remover bottles with a syringe with a long tip. Very easy to measure in 1ml increments.

[DerekP Houston]

Are those bottles ok to store acetone in?

I'm looking for mason jar lids that are acetone safe and air tight. Currently use empty nail poilish remover bottles with a syringe with a long tip. Very easy to measure in 1ml increments.

I used mason jar's originally and do not recommend them. Part of my color contamination issue was the acetone breaking down the seal on the lid. After a few months it froze completely and I tossed the jar out. Here's exactly how we got the bottles (per recommendation here).

Go to beauty salon supply store (we used Sally's beauty supply)
Asked for squirt bottles suitable to hold hair dye chemicals
Bought the thickest version they had, there were a few different styles.

They have measurements on the side in 10ml iirc, and a squirt top bottle with a cap that seals. So far so good, I'll leave it in there until I use up the batch and let you know if I see any deterioration. For now, my zombie green is back to green again! At a 1.99 per bottle, I can easily replace them if needed, and I can have separate bottles for each color.

[Teknikal]

OK Shot some of the Dark Blue bullets from my last post in 357 magnum full house loads today. As I suspected, they performed great. No leading and accuracy as good as I can shoot. Shot 100 rounds in these and about 75 in 44 magnum. Had to stop the 44 magnums half way through the last 50. They were different loads than the first fifty and it looks like I might have put a little too much in them and split a case and flattened some primers. But by my measure I was .5 grains under max. My hand was getting numb I guess and I didn't feel the unusual hard kick:bigsmyl2::bigsmyl2::bigsmyl2:. I'm going to have to back it down a full grain or more. The 44s were coated with Black 1035 powder. Still no leading in the barrel.
Avenger, I sent u a pm. Where are u located in bama.

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[Avenger442]

Avenger, I sent u a pm. Where are u located in bama.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

PM back to you. You notice my avatar?

What problem are you having with the HI Tek? Might be able to solve it on the board.

[Avenger442]

Because of a discussion I have been having by PM and because I was having trouble posting these on the PM I will post here.

172111 This is a failed smash test.

172112 This is a smash test that had some dusting. Bullets shot fine with no leading.

172113 This is the way I want all of my smash test to look.

All three done at third coat.

[DerekP Houston]

Did you detemine the cause of the first 2 failures? I've only seen flaking like that on one of batches and just assumed I goofed something up and remelted them. Other than that, my only issue is burning the pigment by overcooking. As long as it still functions and doesn't lead I'll just chalk that up to personal error and move on.

[Avenger442]

Because of a discussion I have been having by PM and because I was having trouble posting these on the PM I will post here.

172111 This is a failed smash test.

172112 This is a smash test that had some dusting. Bullets shot fine with no leading.

172113 This is the way I want all of my smash test to look.

All three done at third coat.

[Avenger442]

Did you detemine the cause of the first 2 failures? I've only seen flaking like that on one of batches and just assumed I goofed something up and remelted them. Other than that, my only issue is burning the pigment by overcooking. As long as it still functions and doesn't lead I'll just chalk that up to personal error and move on.

The first one was done back in 2014. Probably learning curve was the cause. The middle one was done in 2015. I shoot all of my bullets that just give a little dusting on smash test since I have never had any leading from them. Third one was done last week. I still have about 100 of the 2014 bullets and i think I'll load and shoot some to see how bad they lead. Got plenty of Chore Boy.

[DerekP Houston]

The first one was done back in 2014. Probably learning curve was the cause. The middle one was done in 2015. I shoot all of my bullets that just give a little dusting on smash test since I have never had any leading from them. Third one was done last week. I still have about 100 of the 2014 bullets and i think I'll load and shoot some to see how bad they lead. Got plenty of Chore Boy.

Yeah I shoot the ones with just a dusting, since I'm usually hammering on concrete and barely notice it. I shoot mainly lower pressure rounds though. As I understand it 9mm is one of the most difficult to cast for and get success with accuracy and no leading. I'd like to give it another shot once I get a proper expander die and free up some time.

Thanks for the info and pictures.

[Avenger442]

Yeah I shoot the ones with just a dusting, since I'm usually hammering on concrete and barely notice it. I shoot mainly lower pressure rounds though. As I understand it 9mm is one of the most difficult to cast for and get success with accuracy and no leading. I'd like to give it another shot once I get a proper expander die and free up some time.

Thanks for the info and pictures.

It's funny you should mention that. Have been discussing a problem with someone shooting 9 mil. I think it's that high pressure acting on a small surface thing. Have a similar problem shooting .223 in rifle. I use 18-21 BHN in .223. I think that Ausglock shoots a high BHN alloy in the 9 mil. You have to have a certain amount of pressure with those semi autos to make them work. So there is no getting around that. But I believe there are quite a few guys on here shooting Hi Tek coated 9 mil. No reason you can't get there.

[Ausglock]

Coated works in 9mm, 38Super, 357Sig at Major power factor loads with zero issues. Just use 2,6,92 alloy. Easy.

[DerekP Houston]

Coated works in 9mm, 38Super, 357Sig at Major power factor loads with zero issues. Just use 2,6,92 alloy. Easy.

The coating part I had no issues with ;). It was getting the 9mm cast loaded without swaging, chamber, and shoot without keyholing that I gave up on. I didn't really try all that hard though as I have plenty of 9mm plated + factory from sales. Will continue to use the product.

I believe we spoke to the same person, there appears to be some colors "for me at least" that are more forgiving than others. Zombie green in particular I have issues getting the pigment to come out properly. Gold/bronze were flawless with no effort, i didn't even measure the proper amounts.

[Ausglock]

bullet fit is still king. I go 1 1/2 thou over bore size for all of mine.

[Gremlin460]

The first one was done back in 2014. Probably learning curve was the cause. The middle one was done in 2015. I shoot all of my bullets that just give a little dusting on smash test since I have never had any leading from them. Third one was done last week. I still have about 100 of the 2014 bullets and i think I'll load and shoot some to see how bad they lead. Got plenty of Chore Boy.

Several things come to mind from results in pic#1.
Coated on a high humidity day.
Contaminated acetone. Acetone will absorb moisture if left open or incorrectly sealed.
unclean casts, eg handled a lot with bare hands and getting human oil xfer to the surface.
Baking before the coat is fully dry.
Either way, adhesion seems to be the issue this gentleman is having. and Adhesion issues 99% of the time is operator error in their methology.
Hope this helps.. I probably just said some of the things that Trev has already offered..

[Coopaloop86]

So ive been following this thread for some time now and decided to give the Hi-tek a shot. After a tad of trial and error I found the sweet spot. Just a few observations I noted while working. First everyone says use thin coats which I chalked up to mean less volume in general. I found that by increasing the amount of acetone in my mixture the coating was much easier to apply evenly and its almost impossible to add too much acetone as it evaporates off. The next thing was I had noticed people varying there temperature times and cycles. I found that temperature really isn't as critical as I thought. Used an old GE toaster oven I found stashed in the shed that's atleast 30 years old. During my testing I found for me that a hotter shorter cycle seemed to cure much better than a cooler longer cycle (420ish for 15 minute with a shake midways turned out great). Finally the lubrication qualities of this coating are no joke! I have a .311 mold for sks that I really wanted to use for .308 but with a hard alloy I was having a crazy time sizing the boolits down that far. Coated them with 3 coats and added a drop of oil to the finished boolit just as a precaution and they slid through a Lee .309 push through die like butter and these boolits normally drop at .313ish. I was terrified at first but this stuff is crazy simple and turns out fantastic.


https://scontent-dfw1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t34.0-12/13672470_10209429354151670_1036037787_n.jpg?oh=c64 4f3d2df14997cbfc0e506b82275ae&oe=5787C43A

[DerekP Houston]

Contaminated acetone. Acetone will absorb moisture if left open or incorrectly sealed.

AHHHH I didn't know this one! Thanks, I generally leave the large container sealed in the original, but I didn't know it was hydroscopic. I'll just have to mix up smaller batches of the liquid and plan to use it all up once I have enough to coat. Thank you!


First everyone says use thin coats which I chalked up to mean less volume in general. I found that by increasing the amount of acetone in my mixture the coating was much easier to apply evenly and its almost impossible to add too much acetone as it evaporates off.

I found this to definitely be true, I use more acetone than the original recipe included just because at "outside temp" my boolits are warm to the touch and the acetone was flashing off too fast. I've gotten good coverage about 90% of the time with a few dork ups originally due to the learning curve. I think mixing smaller more frequent batches of the liquid might be the ticket for me. But again, my only real issue now is just over baking the pigment (or.....I left the powder in original container on my grill....the grill caught fire and scorched the outside of the container...USER ERROR!).

[Avenger442]

I have been making homemade black powder for a while. I wanted to be able to load Hi Tek coated bullets on top of the powder that I had made. I finally got around to doing it and this was the results.

172305 That's 15 yards.

Because of my newbie loading of black powder cartridge I didn't get the best results but it was on target. Next is loading additional powder and 25 yards. The Hi Tek was Black 1035 on a 270 grain bullet with 15 grain by volume of black powder in a 44 magnum shell. After shooting 44 magnums before, these felt like 22s. But at least I know I can do one more thing.

[Beau Cassidy]

Avenger you might want to check your attachment... it's not pulling up.

[Rompin Ruger]

Yeah, gotta use a hosting site and the right IMG link... I went thru that too...

[Teknikal]

So ive been following this thread for some time now and decided to give the Hi-tek a shot. After a tad of trial and error I found the sweet spot. Just a few observations I noted while working. First everyone says use thin coats which I chalked up to mean less volume in general. I found that by increasing the amount of acetone in my mixture the coating was much easier to apply evenly and its almost impossible to add too much acetone as it evaporates off. The next thing was I had noticed people varying there temperature times and cycles. I found that temperature really isn't as critical as I thought. Used an old GE toaster oven I found stashed in the shed that's atleast 30 years old. During my testing I found for me that a hotter shorter cycle seemed to cure much better than a cooler longer cycle (420ish for 15 minute with a shake midways turned out great). Finally the lubrication qualities of this coating are no joke! I have a .311 mold for sks that I really wanted to use for .308 but with a hard alloy I was having a crazy time sizing the boolits down that far. Coated them with 3 coats and added a drop of oil to the finished boolit just as a precaution and they slid through a Lee .309 push through die like butter and these boolits normally drop at .313ish. I was terrified at first but this stuff is crazy simple and turns out fantastic.


https://scontent-dfw1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t34.0-12/13672470_10209429354151670_1036037787_n.jpg?oh=c64 4f3d2df14997cbfc0e506b82275ae&oe=5787C43A
What color is that?

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

[Avenger442]

Attachment up on my computer now. I think it might have been the way I was holding my mouth.:|

[Coopaloop86]

Bronze.

[HI-TEK]

"Coated them with 3 coats and added a drop of oil to the finished boolit just as a precaution and they slid through a Lee .309 push through die like butter and these boolits normally drop at .313ish. I was terrified at first but this stuff is crazy simple and turns out fantastic."

Coopaloop86,
You have really done well, They look magnificent.
I noticed that you used oil to size.
Oils is OK, but this will leave product oily. I am a little concerned about possibility of oil contamination with non coated alloy, (and on other surfaces) that can cause coating problems later on.
Donnie has a product called Aqualube 5000. This is a water based concentrate and needs dilution. The final baked alloy, can be rolled coated with a diluted mixture and dried. The residue left on baked surfaces, becomes a powerful dry, non contaminating lubricant, and allows great reduction of loads when sizing. This will also leave your coated cast clean and dry.
Reducing diameter by 0.022 is excellent result. There seems no damage at all to the finished coating after sizing.
Main thing is, how did they shoot?


https://scontent-dfw1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t34.0-12/13672470_10209429354151670_1036037787_n.jpg?oh=c64 4f3d2df14997cbfc0e506b82275ae&oe=5787C43A[/QUOTE]

[Rich22]

So here is a production/storage question. So I have been using a less than ideal, but still serviceable method for storing mixed coating for short periods, I typically use up a batch in a week or so. I am looking for better options and taking advice here looked at the hair product bottle and it seems to work well from a storage/sealing and seems acetone resistant. My issue is that I use a syringe/medicine dispenser to measure out the coating to put onto the bullets. Using the bottles I cannot seem to figure out how to do that without dumping it out into a open top container and sucking it out of that and especially with Bronze that could be an issue from a metallic component seperation issue. Opening is too small to get anything in but maybe a needle. Anyone have any ideas?

[DerekP Houston]

So here is a production/storage question. So I have been using a less than ideal, but still serviceable method for storing mixed coating for short periods, I typically use up a batch in a week or so. I am looking for better options and taking advice here looked at the hair product bottle and it seems to work well from a storage/sealing and seems acetone resistant. My issue is that I use a syringe/medicine dispenser to measure out the coating to put onto the bullets. Using the bottles I cannot seem to figure out how to do that without dumping it out into a open top container and sucking it out of that and especially with Bronze that could be an issue from a metallic component seperation issue. Opening is too small to get anything in but maybe a needle. Anyone have any ideas?

I am not precise in my measurements...I found as soon as I shook it up and got the syringe ready the solution had settled back out. I shake my squirt bottle vigiously and then give a few shots to coat depending on how much I'm coating. If I can see the coating on them before I cook it, I put too much on. I've had much better results doing multiple very thing coats. No more flaking or rough finishes since I switched to that. My only problem is still burning the pigment.

[Rich22]

I am not precise in my measurements...I found as soon as I shook it up and got the syringe ready the solution had settled back out. I shake my squirt bottle vigiously and then give a few shots to coat depending on how much I'm coating. If I can see the coating on them before I cook it, I put too much on. I've had much better results doing multiple very thing coats. No more flaking or rough finishes since I switched to that. My only problem is still burning the pigment.

I am horrible with guessing how much to put on, I weigh every load and measure every coat, only way I can keep consistency. I have found, esp with bronze that I have about 8 seconds from done shaking container to get the mix in the syringe before the components start settling.

[gunoil]

never coat, just stain 2 or 3 times is what l do too.

[slide]

Why don't you convert mils to teaspoons. Lot easier to hold a spoon.

[ioon44]

I use teaspoons and tablespoons cut down to adjust for the amount of bullets I am coating.
The dish soap bottles I use have a narrow spout so it is easy to shake and pour out the coating with out any waste and come in a lot of different sizes for how ever much coating you want to mix up .

Never did the syringe thing.

I just tested some 158 gr SWC with 3 coats of Bronze 500 in my GP 100 and the chrono showed 1400 fps. After 50 rounds of this the barrel is clean except for a little un burnt powder.

[Ausglock]

Why don't you convert mils to teaspoons. Lot easier to hold a spoon.

You are joking....right???? Spoons????? hahahahahahahahahahaha:killingpc

[DerekP Houston]

You are joking....right???? Spoons????? hahahahahahahahahahaha:killingpc

Right?? I'm not sure how it would b a an easier than a squirt bottle or how you would keep it in suspension long enough to measure out little spoon full. Ad mentioned before I do batches of 10 lbs at a minimum and have great success. Smaller batches get let liquid on em, and the first coat is always the lightest just to help with the next coats bonding to it.

I misunderstood the post I referenced.

Apparently I had a beer too many as I can't decipher what I meant by "get let liquid on em"

[slide]

I measured out 6 mils. It will almost fill up a measuring tablespoon. This goes on 2 Kg of bullets. So you are telling me you can stick a syringe in a bottle hold the syringe and the bottle and pull 6 mils out faster than I can hold that tablespoon over the bullets and fill it and dump. That is using the beauty supply bottles which work great for this kind of situation. Ausglock,I got a lot of rescept for you but you don't know everything. Laugh at me! Houston,you didn't even know about the bottles till I told you. Try to help and this is the kind of attitude you get! I may get booted ,so be it!

[Avenger442]

Probably a good idea to measure when you first start doing Hi Tek. I rarely measure coating now to coat the bullets. I did on the Dark Blue with a syringe because I was wanting to get the color right. That mix was in a dish washing liquid bottle and it was a pain to get the syringe in the neck of the bottle and the coating up to the tip. Most of the time I just squirt some. Too much could lead to a smash failure I guess. But I've a pretty good eye for how much I'm squirting or I would have had more trouble than I've had.

Going back to the rifle bullets. Loading 80 rounds eight different loads two different weights of .308 in a spitzer bullet that I've been trying to find a load that will give me one inch to one and a half inch groups at 100 yards. I got it down to two inch when I was working with it last year. Different powder this time. These are coated with Gold 1035 and Gunmetal. Also have twelve pounds of the same style bullet in .308 to coat.

Also have some more black powder pistol cartridges loaded with more powder and a modified fouling preventer. Bullets are coated with Black 1035. Believe I can go to 25 yards this time. I think this is an option for lubricant for those that shoot black powder and aren't too concerned about doing it the old way.

[Rich22]

I did try spoons when I began but did find the syringes to be easier for me at least. I am awful and I mean horrible at guesstimation why I measure everything with all that I do. Will consider going back to the spoons, just will need a different mixing container than I currently use.

[DerekP Houston]

I measured out 6 mils. It will almost fill up a measuring tablespoon. This goes on 2 Kg of bullets. So you are telling me you can stick a syringe in a bottle hold the syringe and the bottle and pull 6 mils out faster than I can hold that tablespoon over the bullets and fill it and dump. That is using the beauty supply bottles which work great for this kind of situation. Ausglock,I got a lot of rescept for you but you don't know everything. Laugh at me! Houston,you didn't even know about the bottles till I told you. Try to help and this is the kind of attitude you get! I may get booted ,so be it!

Wasn't trying to denigrate or say anything bad, more I'm just lazy! I really appreciate the bottle idea, couldn't recall whom I stole it from so my bad. I just do what works for me, sorry if it was misinterpreted. I thought you meant trying to scoop it out of a jar with a spoon or something.

I never used the syringe method, just mixed it in a mason jar and poured a splash over a batch and shook away. 38 special are very forgiving to me, haven't had any issues.

The bottles were an excellent tip, so if I didn't say it before. Thanks!

[wlkjr]

I hate it when someone forgets their meds. I tried measuring out 6 mils one time and it was kinda messy so now I just shake and squirt out of a plastic bottle. From my experience you don't have to be right on the exact ML. This stuff is pretty forgiving if you don't put way too much on. Three light coats seems to be the sweet spot for my needs.

[HI-TEK]

From my experience you don't have to be right on the exact ML. This stuff is pretty forgiving if you don't put way too much on. Three light coats seems to be the sweet spot for my needs.[/QUOTE]

WLKJR
Right on with your thoughts and findings.
If the first coat is diluted more that 20g/100, by using a little, plus or minus, ether side of 6 mls per 250 bullets , is not a problem. All you are doing is using a little more Acetone and much less coating. (there I go again telling people to use less)
This helps with drying speed, produces more smooth and complete film, and using two or three very thin or diluted coats, will produce a multi layer well bonded coating, and will add very little in overall diameter.
It will work just fine.
One thing that will cause problems is trying to coat too much or too thick with first coat. This is simply very counter productive. Then, the thickly applied coats is difficult to dry, end up with many imperfections, and bonding to alloy will suffer as well.
Re-Heating or adding more coats will not repair first coat problems after its been baked, as after heat set/cure, using more coatings mix or re baking will not get first coat to bond, as it is set hard, and cannot be re-bonded to alloy with additional coats or with additional heating.
Simply, if first coat fails, don't do another coat, find out what went wrong with first coat.
Once you found the problem, and first coat is OK, only then do more coats. After first coat has been found as bonding to alloy, all subsequent coats will bond the previous coats, and will be held in place.

[Ausglock]

Ausglock,I got a lot of rescept for you but you don't know everything. Laugh at me! Houston,you didn't even know about the bottles till I told you. Try to help and this is the kind of attitude you get! I may get booted ,so be it!


It was a joke.....calm down.... how about a teaspoon of cement.......lol....see.....funny.....joke......ge t it?????

[Rompin Ruger]

Just to lighten the mood...cause this is such a great thread to learn from...

I heard tell if you find a guy shoveling cement with a pitch fork, then you should call him a mortar forker...:kidding::veryconfu:bigsmyl2:

[popper]

Just ordered a slick side RD for the 30/30, I'll try the gold again. How fast you pushing the 308?

[Gremlin460]

So here is a production/storage question. So I have been using a less than ideal, but still serviceable method for storing mixed coating for short periods, I typically use up a batch in a week or so. I am looking for better options and taking advice here looked at the hair product bottle and it seems to work well from a storage/sealing and seems acetone resistant. My issue is that I use a syringe/medicine dispenser to measure out the coating to put onto the bullets. Using the bottles I cannot seem to figure out how to do that without dumping it out into a open top container and sucking it out of that and especially with Bronze that could be an issue from a metallic component seperation issue. Opening is too small to get anything in but maybe a needle. Anyone have any ideas?

Easy https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=svu6oHcd7d0

[Gremlin460]

I measured out 6 mils. It will almost fill up a measuring tablespoon. This goes on 2 Kg of bullets. So you are telling me you can stick a syringe in a bottle hold the syringe and the bottle and pull 6 mils out faster than I can hold that tablespoon over the bullets and fill it and dump. That is using the beauty supply bottles which work great for this kind of situation. Ausglock,I got a lot of rescept for you but you don't know everything. Laugh at me! Houston,you didn't even know about the bottles till I told you. Try to help and this is the kind of attitude you get! I may get booted ,so be it!

Sounds like a challenge :). https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=svu6oHcd7d0 I have done THOUSANDS of coatings in the near 3 years of HiTek, and I can dispense an highly accurate amount with impeccable ,repeatable accuracy with a syringe, with zero spillage or settling of metallic contents, each and every time.

[DerekP Houston]

Sounds like a challenge :). https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=svu6oHcd7d0 I have done THOUSANDS of coatings in the near 3 years of HiTek, and I can dispense an highly accurate amount with impeccable ,repeatable accuracy with a syringe, with zero spillage or settling of metallic contents, each and every time.

I do believe I started that argument and it has been settled via PMs. I misunderstood the meaning of how he was filling the table spoon. What kind of syringe are you using to be able to extract that amount without the pigment settling? Is it the liquid version sold or the powder? After watching the video it appears you have the 2 part liquid that we here in the states aren't able to source. Appears to be just a difference in products not a major issues :shrug:

[Gremlin460]

A very poorly filmed video, but it gets its point across on how to set up ANY kinda bottle to be used with a syringe.

http://s881.photobucket.com/user/Gremlin460/media/VIDEO0020_zps0bf060e4.mp4.html?sort=3&o=59

Again apologies for the shaky quality but you will get the point.

[DerekP Houston]

I see your point, it just doesn't match with what I see in my bottle. When I shake my powder/acetone blend it quickly settles out of solution. It is dark out now and kid in bed, but I can video it the same. Just appears to be a difference in product to me that you guys have an advantage over.

[Gremlin460]

After watching the video it appears you have the 2 part liquid that we here in the states aren't able to source. Appears to be just a difference in products not a major issues :shrug:

I no longer use the liquid coating, binned litres of it after the powder came out. All I use now is powder form.
The syringes are just everyday 10 or 20cc ones from the chemist, cost a few cents each. BTW leaving the syringe in the tube also seals the bottle.
You will notice in the video I shake the contents for 2-3 seconds before I draw x amount of coating up. Its a good habit to get into.
There is a saying that doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result is stupid, well, I do exactly the same thing over and over again, because I actually want the same result each and every time.
Same amount of casts, same amount of coating, same amount of time cooking..
Viola!! same result.

PS I hear VIOLA is foreign for "this bath water is too hot" but don't quote me on that.

[DerekP Houston]

Thanks for the detailed write up, sure helps this new guy understand things better.

Edit: Lol I shouldn't type on my phone at night, my spelling sucks

[Ausglock]

You can use Jam jars, or the jars that Pasta sauce comes in. a nice 2" open top with a sealed twist off lid.
Add 2 bullets to the jar as rattle mixers. shake jar. remove lid. suck up 10mls of coating. squirt it back into the jar and instantly suck up the 6mls. easy.
The squirting back keeps the mix in suspension as you suck it up.

Works fine. This is what I use for the powdered coating.

[Rich22]

Just ordered a slick side RD for the 30/30, I'll try the gold again. How fast you pushing the 308?

got mine to 2055 at about 7% past max, .310 bullet in 300 BO

[dikman]

PS I hear VIOLA is foreign for "this bath water is too hot" but don't quote me on that.

Not sure what to make of that - too many xxxx's? :drinks:

I passed on some of my powder to a couple of fellow club members who wanted to try it out. One chap had no problems, the other said his looked great but consistently failed the smash test. He said he followed the instructions exactly, carefully measuring everything out. He said the first coat looked good with, with excellent colour. We both told him that he was applying it too heavily for the first coat. We convinced him to thin it down and he found it worked better.

As for measuring it, while I try to be fairly accurate with the initial quantities when making the mix, once I start coating I just guesstimate the amount I squirt/pour into the mixing bucket and haven't had any problems yet. Once you understand what you're doing the stuff really does have bit of leeway when applying it.

[Gremlin460]

Not sure what to make of that - too many xxxx's? :drinks:



You are right, I got it confused with Eurika! not vola!!
Eureka means the bath water is too hot....

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eureka_(word)

[Echd]

I'm about 99.9% certain it will be fine, but has anyone been shooting hitek coated bullets in a Desert Eagle? I know one guy here was shooting PC'd.

[Avenger442]

I'm about 99.9% certain it will be fine, but has anyone been shooting hitek coated bullets in a Desert Eagle? I know one guy here was shooting PC'd.

Why the question? Concerned about something in the gun itself?
I've been shooting 44 magnum in a Ruger Redhawk with no leading. Some of the loads were on the edge of being dangerous (because of my mistake) split a case, flattened primers, and now going to have to have one of the strongest pistols made looked at by a Gunsmith. They definitely would have cycled any semi-auto. I have not seen anyone shooting 50 cal. coated.

[Avenger442]

Guys I messed up my Ruger yesterday. It seems that I should have taken apart the loads in 44 mag that I decided to shoot relying on owning a Ruger easily one of the strongest pistols made. Now having trouble with cylinder rotation. I still didn't have any leading but that is little solace for the cost of repairs.

Also shot ninety rounds of .308 with no leading. Two different coatings Liquid Gold 1035 and Gun Metal. Three bullets and eight different loads. Temperature 90 degrees and 75% humidity with almost no wind. Got terrible groups from some of the bullets and loads. These were ten shot groups. Most were 4-6 inches at one hundred yards.

You may remember my post earlier showing a failed smash test. I loaded twenty rounds with those .308 bullets. Interestingly that bullet gave me the best group, without two flyers, at 2.4 in. center to center. They are more of a hunting shaped bullet and I can't understand why I can't get the better groups with a better ballistic coefficient bullet. Well that is not related to this blog.

172695 Tightest group. 172696 Factory load group. Ignore two top was sighting in.

I want to qualify what I am about to tell you with the "your experience might be entirely different" and I am not suggesting that you abandon the recommended test procedures for the coating. Or that you shoot bullets with failed smash test. After shooting twenty rounds of these I had no leading in the barrel. I'm not sure why. Shot these bullets last. I was fully prepared to get out the Chore Boy today and spend time cleaning leading out of the barrel. One of the few pleasant surprises from this trip to the range.

Do not wish to extend this so if you want more info ask and will provide.

[Echd]

Why the question? Concerned about something in the gun itself?
I've been shooting 44 magnum in a Ruger Redhawk with no leading. Some of the loads were on the edge of being dangerous (because of my mistake) split a case, flattened primers, and now going to have to have one of the strongest pistols made looked at by a Gunsmith. They definitely would have cycled any semi-auto. I have not seen anyone shooting 50 cal. coated.

The concern is that some people state that lead can foul the gas ports in the barrel and turn them into single shots.

Personally, I can't see how properly tuned loads would have a problem. But it is such a widely held belief that I was interested in whether anyone had tried it.

I'm pretty positive there will be no issues and any Hitek fouling can be cleaned with solvents.

[Rich22]

The concern is that some people state that lead can foul the gas ports in the barrel and turn them into single shots.

Personally, I can't see how properly tuned loads would have a problem. But it is such a widely held belief that I was interested in whether anyone had tried it.

I'm pretty positive there will be no issues and any Hitek fouling can be cleaned with solvents.

If the bullets are made and coated correctly I do not see any chance of getting pressures/velocities anywhere near what would cause a problem, not even in the ballpark of .308, which has been shown to work. Really makes me want to do a suppressed 50 cal.

[Avenger442]

If the bullets are made and coated correctly I do not see any chance of getting pressures/velocities anywhere near what would cause a problem, not even in the ballpark of .308, which has been shown to work. Really makes me want to do a suppressed 50 cal.

You guys must have more disposable cash.

I wished I had the $2000 the guy on Armslist was asking for the old Dirty Harry style AutoMag that was on there the other day. It had several (7 I think) barrels. Would also like to have a Desert Eagle but in 44 not 50. And then there is the Barret 50 cal for the weekend 3 mile shoot. Let's see I could have all three for about $14,000.

Back on the subject of gas ports, there are some on here shooting Hi Tek in ARs. If they are not having a problem I don't see the DE having a problem. Maybe some of them can chime in. I haven't tried it in an AR yet.

[Echd]

I actually just bought the desert eagle and only paid about $700. Pretty good price imo. This one is a 44. A 50 would be fun but I load so many cartridges that I do not want to add more that I shoot in any sort of volume... and whatever their shortcomings, desert eagles are EXTREMELY fun to shoot and superbly accurate.

The gas system is very similar to an AR (well, not completely, but in some ways). The only caveat is that the desert eagle's gas system cannot be realistically disassembled and cleaned by an individual. That said I think many people parrot the "no lead in deagles" line without ever trying it. I really see no reason that it won't work perfectly with coated lead, and I would venture a guess that lube and not lead is probably more of a threat to the gas system outside of spectacularly unusual cases.

And if I am wrong, well, guess I have made mistakes before, and the learning experience isn't always free or painless.

But no matter what, there is something awesome about the weight and feel of a big magazine full of Keith swcs...

[Avenger442]

Echd
I'm not real familiar with practice for cleaning or what causes fouling in gas ports. Do you not get powder fouling or maybe even flecks of copper jacket in the ports?

I've never had any fouling from the coating. But I cook mine a couple minutes longer.

By the way, that's a great deal on a DE. Around here, even in used condition, you rarely see one under $1000.

[Echd]

I'll be trying these with a healthy dose of H110 and alternatively 2400. I have a fair amount of both and have always had good results with both.

The bullet is a Mihec H&G503 clone.

http://i.imgur.com/MHjNbb2.jpg

Hard to get those grease grooves to fill with those big square walls, but who cares?

[DerekP Houston]

How on earth did you get them to show up green?!!?!?!? inquiring rednecks deserve to know. Look awesome! Lets see the range report.

[Echd]

I've had several people pm me in the past couple of weeks asking about how to get them to turn out green. Is it a common problem? I am using the hitek powder in kryptonite green and am following the instructions to the letter, adjusted proportionally. I use roughly ~7.5mL to 5 pounds of bullets per coat and do two coats.

[DerekP Houston]

I've had several people pm me in the past couple of weeks asking about how to get them to turn out green. Is it a common problem? I am using the hitek powder in kryptonite green and am following the instructions to the letter. I use roughly ~7.5mL to 5 pounds of bullets per coat and do two coats.

oh lmao ok I have "zombie green" no kryptonite. I am merely jealous of your prowess at this coating. Functionally they all work great for me and I don't *need* the green color. Just a honor thing, I'd like to get it to turn out green not brown for once. After a single light coat they are a light brown, I use a PID set to 400f and pull after 10 mins. Not complaining at all, just stating the facts.

[Echd]

Sorry, it is zombie green, my mistake.

I'm doing exactly 10 minutes at 400 degrees (I preheat). I only let my bullets sit for maybe a couple of minutes after being coated to be baked and as soon as they are cool enough to handle I do the second coat.

[DerekP Houston]

Sorry, it is zombie green, my mistake.

I'm doing exactly 10 minutes at 400 degrees (I preheat). I only let my bullets sit for maybe a couple of minutes after being coated to be baked and as soon as they are cool enough to handle I do the second coat.

damn, now it is back to user error. oh well live and learn. Thanks for the pics and update.

[Echd]

I was working on a last batch of about 1200 .357s and decided to leave half of them in the oven a little longer to see what I could get. Under the normal lighting in my garage I could not tell much if any difference but with the camera flash you can see some look a little "browner", although definitely still green. Does that look more like what you have?

ETA: I cannot wait for the Mihec no groove 9mm mold to be done. Yeah it doesn't matter, but seeing those unfilled grease grooves is a real buzzkill! And it's not worth the extra attention to fill them up when nobody can see them anyway...

http://i.imgur.com/lpdY6Q0.jpg

[DerekP Houston]

Those darker ones on the right match what colors I'm seeing. I do 3 light coatings for full coverage (evaporates very fast here). Looks like I need to buy a new timer and watch them more carefully. Appreciate all the time and effort yall put in to these threads and the follow ups.

172782

First bake is usually similar to your dark ones above, and they just get darker with each coat. Smash test and no leading pass though so I've continued to use them as is. I should note there is a possibility I burnt the powder when I melted the original container on my grill by accident. Could be I scorched the pigment all together.....but I've still got a big bag to use up first!! Waste not want not.

[Rompin Ruger]

I should note there is a possibility I burnt the powder when I melted the original container on my grill by accident Could be I scorched the pigment all together.....but I've still got a big bag to use up first!! Waste not want not.

NO disparagement intended, but I have to admit that last statement got my attention. :drinks::mrgreen:

[DerekP Houston]

NO disparagement intended, but I have to admit that last statement got my attention. :drinks::mrgreen:

function over aesthetics here. Still shoots like a dream, no leading, no smoke, no fuss. If I wanted fancy colors I would powder coat them, but it is just too time consuming for my lazy butt. Shake and dump for the win.

So when I found hi-tek the first time...I ordered 4 colors in the "medium" size tub thinking I would use it up quite quickly.....*still* working on using up a single one. Like most things, buy once cry once. It will probably outlast my lead stash at this rate. If I ever use it all up I've still got those 6 bottles of alox I suppose.

The bag of powder coat fuschia was next to the grill even closer when it flamed up, I now have a pink spot on my grill :D :D. Damage to the hi-tek was limited to the plastic container, so I just dumped it in a ziploc bag and continued using.

[Rompin Ruger]

:bigsmyl2: Wasn't trolling for an explanation, but even those type "tidbits" help the rest of us ensure less drastic outcomes! Caveat emptor or something like that, eh?

I started with the liquid Red Copper for my Ruger 45-270-SAA castings and with Donnie's guidance, got pretty great results other then I too let them in a "touch" longer to be sure and ended up with more Gold color then red copper... Alas, shoot well at decent velocities (No Chrony) but no leading which I got with the 45-45-10 mix I made and I hate that sticky mess of LLA plain. I"m sold... probably have to learn all over again when use up the liquid and have to go to powder. Haven't done much shooting, casting, baking or such since moved to TN...time...but after shoulder surgery and no use of right arm, it won't be directly... :0 Thanks for sharing your trials, folks. It puts more arrows in all our quivers.

[Rompin Ruger]

Derek, thanks for PM...replied... I have no powder and still will use what liquid I have... Donnie told me it's just a matter of shaking it well to stir back pigment, it doesn't go bad... we'll see when I get back to it!

[Echd]

Side note: my rf100 arrives today and now my entire reloading process outside of pulling the handle and filling hoppers is automated. It's time to work on an auto sizer like jmorris has...

[Ausglock]

I'm interested in why the Zombie Green powder is giving you all problems.
I'll pull the sample from the last batch sent to the US and mix & coat.
Will post photos here when I'm done.

[DerekP Houston]

I'm interested in why the Zombie Green powder is giving you all problems.
I'll pull the sample from the last batch sent to the US and mix & coat.
Will post photos here when I'm done.

I still blame myself for user error. I have should have some time tomorrow to cast another batch and test it out. I think I'm still over cooking the pigment to avoid undercooking and flaking.

[HI-TEK]

I still blame myself for user error. I have should have some time tomorrow to cast another batch and test it out. I think I'm still over cooking the pigment to avoid undercooking and flaking.

DerekP Houston,
You have touched on a couple of areas that need some explanation.
1. Over Baking, generally darkens colour.
Over baking, should not affect "flaking".
Flaking, is generally caused by using/applying too much first coating, and then, not adequately drying before baking.
2. During baking process, both the alloy and coating must reach at least 180C, and once it reaches the 180 mark, stay at that temperature at least 2-3 minutes.
How long it takes to get product to that 180C temperature, depends on your oven and loading you place inside. Running the ovens at 200C simply speeds up heat drive into products being baked.
3. Once any of the coatings have been baked, cooking them longer or hotter will not fix adhesion problems.
Re-coating poorly adhering first coat, will not fix adhesion problems, as each coat will bond to previous one. If first coat has not bonded adequately, they all will flake off or peel despite baking temperatures or time baked..
4. If under cooking, simply allows next coating to act like a paint stripper on previous coat, and it produces a mess, with rough finishes not smooth and shiny in most occasions. The newly applied coating solvent simply starts to dissolve previous coat.
With under baking, and depending on how long it has been baked and what temperature product reaches, will decide just how much of the previous coats begin to start dissolving into next coating layer.
Inadequate baking should not cause flaking. Adequate heat, simply sets the coating, and during that "heat set" it also bonds to alloy.
Once that "Set" has been achieved, and next coat does not damage previous coat, all should be good.
IMPORTANT
Each bake time, simply continues to heat set/harden all coats applied, with some darkening occurring with extensive time baked.
REMINDER
Dark Green coating, was baked for about 3 months, it went black, but coating was perfect and shot with accuracy and no Leading. (Unfortunately user wanted a Dark Green colour, but final product was Black.)

[ioon44]

Really good basics, I think I will print a hard copy and keep where I do my coating.

I like to coat then bake the next day to make sure the coating is dry and run my oven at 210 C.

I have started baking two trays, 10 lb of bullets for 15 min with good results, saves a lot of time.

[DerekP Houston]

As usual, the instructions nailed my issue. Happy to report I am back to green colors. Not sure where I got the 10 minute timer idea from, but 8 minutes worked great and I actually got "zombie green' to show up a green. Forgot the timer on one batch so disregard the over cooked pigment on a few.

Thanks for taking the time to list it all out again.

173009

[andre3k]

I've had really good luck with Zombie Green. Its the only color I use now.

http://i68.tinypic.com/20ggroo.jpg

[HI-TEK]

I've had really good luck with Zombie Green. Its the only color I use now.

http://i68.tinypic.com/20ggroo.jpg


They look beautiful, well done... hope you are happy with them