simple Hi-Tek coating

[ItZaLLgooD]

These all pass the finger nail test as well as the wipe and smash test on both coats. The changes that I made were, adding 10%+- lead shot to the alloy and I let the boolits dry for 10 minutes with a fan and an additional 5 minutes on top of the oven.

The barrel issue is a complete possibility. I noticed that I needed to load about 0.01" lower for my sons PT1911 than mine to get them to chamber in his gun. The boolits I did today will be running a 226 and maybe a Glock, maybe the barrels in these will be a little more forgiving on the leading.

[Ausglock]

Good job. They look just like mine.

[gunoil]

Get up and do sompin! Wanta see the bullet feeder.

[Ausglock]

Bugger off.

[leadman]

I went to the range Wednesday to continue the test of the Lee 200gr RN GC in my 1960s era Savage 110 CL in 30-06. The powder is H1000, WLR, sized .309", Hi-Tek Gold 1035. I started at 58 gr and went up a grain at a time to 61 grains. Range was 100 yards, 5 shots. Alloy was heat treated and aged linotype.
The bore was clean and shiny when the shooting was done. Not a spec of lead or unburned powder. There was quite a bit of recoil that moved my Leadsled with #42 of lead on it. The case expansion indicated the 61gr. load was max. which matched the manual for jacketed loads.
Here are the results:

#1 58grs, avg. velocity 2,445 fps, Group size 1.602" for 5 shots
#2 59grs, avg. velocity 2,470 fps, group size 1.311" for 5 shots
#3 60grs, avg. velocity 2,510 fps, group size 2.217", one pulled left
#4 61grs, avg. velocity 2,547 fps, group size 2.708"

Don't know why but the pictures uploaded out of order again.

[Gateway Bullets]

Good job Leadman!

HUUUMMMMMM guess that proves the myth that you can push a bullet at 2500fps without a gas check and no leading! Seems that some of us on here have been right all along about the velocities.

[Avenger442]

I went to the range Wednesday to continue the test of the Lee 200gr RN GC in my 1960s era Savage 110 CL in 30-06. The powder is H1000, WLR, sized .309", Hi-Tek Gold 1035. I started at 58 gr and went up a grain at a time to 61 grains. Range was 100 yards, 5 shots.
The bore was clean and shiny when the shooting was done. Not a spec of lead or unburned powder. There was quite a bit of recoil that moved my Leadsled with #42 of lead on it. The case expansion indicated the 61gr. load was max. which matched the manual for jacketed loads.
Here are the results:

#1 58grs, avg. velocity 2,445 fps, Group size 1.602" for 5 shots
#2 59grs, avg. velocity 2,470 fps, group size 1.311" for 5 shots
#3 60grs, avg. velocity 2,510 fps, group size 2.217", one pulled left
#4 61grs, avg. velocity 2,547 fps, group size 2.708"

Don't know why but the pictures uploaded out of order again.

Were you using the new dry coating packs or the liquid?

[HI-TEK]

Good job Leadman!

HUUUMMMMMM guess that proves the myth that you can push a bullet at 2500fps without a gas check and no leading! Seems that some of us on here have been right all along about the velocities.


As you said, Very good job Leadman.

Work done with Coated Copper Jacketed ammo, showed that coating stayed put on Copper jacket, and did separate barrel from the Copper, and, significant reductions of Copper fouling was apparent.
We had learnt then, that the coating worked OK at those speeds with jacketed ammo, and without loss of accuracy.
As I have said previously, to shoot cast alloys, coated, require a careful consideration of the engineering requirements being required to be produced by the alloy, that is not jacketed.
Loss of accuracy with coated cast alloys with Rifles, certainly seems not being a problem with the coatings, however it seems to be a problem with the alloys used.

Work is underway, to try and come up with a suitable alloy, that can be cast, and will as closely replicate the engineering requirements, without a Copper Jacket.
The search for the holy grail goes on, and on, ... and on, ....BUT, .... things are progressing with such a dedicated person like Leadman and Ausglock who put into these type of testing, many, many hours of dedicated work..
Thanks much for your input Leadman & Ausglock.
Your work and your reports are much appreciated by all shooters alike.
Thanks much.
Joe

[Stephen Cohen]

Last week I got my new casting reloading area all set up, I have cast some 5000 125 gr and 158 gr plain base projectiles. I fired up my $15 second hand convection oven and set to coating. I have too say that all the work done by Ausglock and others has made this a very simple and pleasurable pastime. I mixed my coating [red copper] as directed by Ausglock 5 1 7, set my oven at 200c and timer to 12 mins. gave tray a shake at 6 mins, and had no problems with coating, no rub off with acetone or flaking when projectile beaten. I have to say HI- TEK Joe has reason to be proud of his product and I'm thankfull to everyone who contributed to this subject, you all mad me look better than I know I am. Thanks one and all. Stephen

[Ausglock]

Stephen. It really is easy isn't it?
I am now concentrating on getting the experimental powdered coating to work.
Joe has sent 1/2 a dozen to try, but they are mostly failures.
There is a nice Dark Maroon, but no blue as yet.

[HI-TEK]

Stephen. It really is easy isn't it?
I am now concentrating on getting the experimental powdered coating to work.
Joe has sent 1/2 a dozen to try, but they are mostly failures.
There is a nice Dark Maroon, but no blue as yet.

As you know Ausglock, I dont give up easily. I am determined to get a stable blue coloured coating eventually.
Over many years, I must have sent hundreds of people running, when I call to discuss why their materials did not work.
Because of the technical aspects, and uniqueness of the "system", there is not much information or material experience available that I can rely upon, to get products that may work.
It is simply a slow methodical soul destroying battle to get materials, that look great initially, then fail miserably.
Ahhhh well, back to the mad scientist workbench...lol...lol....

[Ausglock]

The hardline grooveless molds are great to use with the HI-Tek coating.
I have their 45 230gr RN and 9mm 135gn RN. very easy to use and coat great.

[leadman]

Gateway, these boolits had Hornady copper gas checks installed. I have sucessfully shot plain based boolits in my Ruger SBH Hunter in 41 mag. to 1,550 fps with excellent accuracy. I am going to work on the rifle boolits to see if the gc can be left off and still obtain equal accuracy. Did you see my previous posts on the 223 Rem? I shot the Lee Bator boolit with GC to 3,619 fps velocity. Accuracy was just over 2 moa but when I get time I am going to work on this.

Avenger442, this coating was the liquid Gold 1035 which contains a harder resin. This coating does not leave the hard fouling in the barrel like the other HT coatings. I can easily push a dry patch thru the bore to check for leading. With the other coatings I had to run a brush thru first.

[Gateway Bullets]

I stand corrected! I guess I misread the post. Kinda difficult at times to read from an iPhone. Lol

[PAT303]

As you know Ausglock, I dont give up easily. I am determined to get a stable blue coloured coating eventually.
Over many years, I must have sent hundreds of people running, when I call to discuss why their materials did not work.
Because of the technical aspects, and uniqueness of the "system", there is not much information or material experience available that I can rely upon, to get products that may work.
It is simply a slow methodical soul destroying battle to get materials, that look great initially, then fail miserably.
Ahhhh well, back to the mad scientist workbench...lol...lol....
How can I get my hands on your coating?,does anyone sell it in Perth or can I buy it direct?. Pat

[Stephen Cohen]

Well as Queenslanders we don't give a rats if he never gets the blue up and running do we. lol.
Stephen. It really is easy isn't it?
I am now concentrating on getting the experimental powdered coating to work.
Joe has sent 1/2 a dozen to try, but they are mostly failures.
There is a nice Dark Maroon, but no blue as yet.

[Stephen Cohen]

Well after finishing the remainder of some 5000 cast today, I am of the opinion I will stop checking every bake for rub off and flaking, if I have not had any yet I see no reason why it should start now.

[Ausglock]

It doesn't hurt to check one every 1000.
After all, a knocked temp dial, A new bottle of acetone, a new mix, A high humidity day (or night) all these things can cause a fail.
I cast, baked and sized 8000 this weekend. one every 1000 is cheap insurance.

Pat303. Sorry. I forgot. Will get it to you.

[Stephen Cohen]

Yes good advice Ausglock any variation could be my undoing. I have been motivated by Leadman now, I have cast up a few hundred Lee 250gr .379 casting for my 375 Whelen, I hope to be able to drive them with accuracy to at least 1800 2000 fps. My wife now feels like a widow, but she can always take up casting and shooting.

[popper]

Did ~ 500 40 & 9 yesterday in XDs with the GKs, no leading, no smoke (indoor range). Did pretty good on the 1 (~20yds standing) & 4 (left handed) targets, considering I can't see the sights on the 40. SIL & his sister still pushing and hitting low. All around good 4th celebration. SIL is finally coming around to shooting cast. Brought his 308MX back to find a good hunting load (still PC). My suitcase was MUCH lighter on the way back. I left another peanut jar for the daughter's 9mm, have another 2 jugs of 40 to coat with the old green, time to cast a couple jugs of 9 for her. RO hadn't seen this stuff before and was impressed. The Gold sounds interesting for rifle.

[Ausglock]

Good stuff, Popper.
The more people that learn about this coating, the better. You get to shoot more and it is far better, health wise, at indoor ranges.

[Moonman]

Ausglock,

Gateway Bullets has some DRY POWDER now, I'm ordering some
Black 1035, Zombie Green and Red/Copper Monday morning.

I still have LIQUID mix your own RATIOS though, Brick Red (Lipstick),
Dark Green, Gold and Gold 1035, I need to get casting.

Going to go by the CAMP PERRY Ohio NATIONAL MATCHES tomorrow
to look around, they also have supplies there for shooters.

Even like around $2000/5000 round cases of 22 LR.

I can shoot well enough to even worry about that SUPREMO 22 LR AMMO though.

[leadman]

Stephen Cohen, I am casting with linotype, then heat treating it, plus a water quenching after the last coat. Hardness should stay around 32 to 34 bhn this way. I did have one batch that would not go harder than 22 bhn, don't know why unless it was just too depleted from use.
Also age then for 2 to 3 weeks.
I am going to try a softer alloy with a mix of isotope lead and linotype, along with reclaimed shot to see what velocity this will take.

I am impressed with the liquid Gold 1035 as the barrel from the last test looked unfired. No hard fouling at all and about 4 patches and it was clean.

[Stephen Cohen]

Leadman, thanks for the heads up, I cast some today out of some linotype and some with 50% cow, yes I also did the water quenching on last coat, however my cast are PB and I know you used gas checks.

[leadman]

Stephan, I am going to do some testing without gas checks just to see what happens. I'll start out at around 1,200 fps and work up. I do have several of the very slow surplus powders and may use these for the mid velocity loads.
One of the surplus powders is known for leaving a hard plastic type coating in the barrel and with jacketed this is not good, but I wonder what it will do for, or to a lead boolit? I will Hi-Tek coat the boolits so may have 2 coating surfaces working in the bore.

[Stephen Cohen]

Leadman, we seem to be of a similar mind, I loaded some 375 Whelen rounds today, 250gr coated cast ahead of 34 gr 2206h or as you know it H4895, this load did show promise with conventional lube. I plan to work up and see at what point it turns pear shaped, I am convinced the alloy is the deciding factor not the coating.

[zomby woof]

With all the new colors and variations being offered, do they all perform the same? Is there a chart on which color performs best with a particular caliber? Or is this a "pick your favorite color and go with it"?

[popper]

Leadman - I'm testing the same idea, (blasphemy - PC) got to high 1700 in 30/30, low 1700 in BO. Yes, it is more alloy & design than coating. Got some isocore cast this week and also cut 50/50 to try. I got 1/2 L of the old green which works fine for 9 & 40. I've cooked for 1 hr @ 400F, no problem. so far I've done 7 peanut jars of 9 & 40, ~ 600 per jar, using ~25 mL of Cat. I think this will last a lifetime, for me. First time I went to that indoor range they wanted $40/100 of jwort 9mm reloads (last year). Would have spent $200 on $20 of ammo. I don't see much incentive for the range to sell $60 worth of coated ammo - got to include some PM. That's the rub.

[Ausglock]

With all the new colors and variations being offered, do they all perform the same? Is there a chart on which color performs best with a particular caliber? Or is this a "pick your favorite color and go with it"?
The metallics (red/copper, brown copper, gold 1035 etc etc) are better for high velocity. the non metallics ( Black, reds, greens) are fine for all handgun loads. Even Major power factor loads are fine. I have pushed a 105gn pill out of a 357Sig at 1700fps from a Glock 35. No leading and fired fine.

[Gremlin460]

Anyone else besides me tumble their casts for 2-3 mins before coating to knock any flashing if any off?

[PAT303]

The metallics (red/copper, brown copper, gold 1035 etc etc) are better for high velocity. the non metallics ( Black, reds, greens) are fine for all handgun loads. Even Major power factor loads are fine. I have pushed a 105gn pill out of a 357Sig at 1700fps from a Glock 35. No leading and fired fine.
Trevor,I was going to order black from Joe,I'm looking for speed so your saying blacks no good?,should I go the red/copper instead?. Pat

[Stephen Cohen]

No but I have thought it may be a good idea, does it deform the bases at all.

Anyone else besides me tumble their casts for 2-3 mins before coating to knock any flashing if any off?

[HI-TEK]

Trevor,I was going to order black from Joe,I'm looking for speed so your saying blacks no good?,should I go the red/copper instead?. Pat

All the coatings and Metallics will do the job. Plain coloured coatinsg have been used in all sorts of applications.
Metallics are Texas Tea (Black Gold), Old Gold, Sunny Gold, 1035 Gold, Zombie Green, Candy Apple Red, Bronze, Glitter Bronze, Red Copper, Bronzed Copper, Brown Copper, and Natural.

Plain tinted will work with the majority, and if plain colours are applied slightly thicker, it will be difficult to separate plain tinted coating and Metallic coatings with performance.

So in high energy use, they all will work, if applied adequately and correctly, and if they are used at with similar coating thicknesses, however, the metallics, will reflect heat a little better, when the plain colours are compared with the Metallics on side by side basis.
This heat reflecting property, is useful with high energy end use applications, and, in many uses, there is no requirement for gas checks.
Coating has ability to reflect powder heat adequately away from alloy, which normally can melt or damage tail end of projectile without a gas check.

[Stephen Cohen]

Last year I purchased an early Omak mod 44 from a death estate, along with the rifle there was a large bag of Lee 180gr cast, fitted with checks and coated with black, I understand the old gent used them in Omark but have no idea of his load. I plan to test them now I have the scope rail fitted to rifle. I actually like the black coating myself.

[Gremlin460]

No but I have thought it may be a good idea, does it deform the bases at all.

Nope, not that I have noticed..

[HATCH]

whats the difference between black and black 1035?

[leadman]

Hatch, I don't have the black but have the Gold and Gold 1035. The 1035 is a harder resin. I would think this would be the same for the black.

[PAT303]

All the coatings and Metallics will do the job. Plain coloured coatinsg have been used in all sorts of applications.
Metallics are Texas Tea (Black Gold), Old Gold, Sunny Gold, 1035 Gold, Zombie Green, Candy Apple Red, Bronze, Glitter Bronze, Red Copper, Bronzed Copper, Brown Copper, and Natural.

Plain tinted will work with the majority, and if plain colours are applied slightly thicker, it will be difficult to separate plain tinted coating and Metallic coatings with performance.

So in high energy use, they all will work, if applied adequately and correctly, and if they are used at with similar coating thicknesses, however, the metallics, will reflect heat a little better, when the plain colours are compared with the Metallics on side by side basis.
This heat reflecting property, is useful with high energy end use applications, and, in many uses, there is no requirement for gas checks.
Coating has ability to reflect powder heat adequately away from alloy, which normally can melt or damage tail end of projectile without a gas check.
Now you've made it harder to choose,Texas Tea sounds good,the candy apple red would get attention. Pat

[HI-TEK]

whats the difference between black and black 1035?


Black is Black, shiny and slippery.
The Black 1035 is designed for Texas, and has metallics, as well as other stuff, to make it like liquid gold, just like Jedd Clampett found lol lol..

In reality, the Black has been modified to help with folk who wanted a tougher more heat resistant coating, but wished to continue to use a black coating.
The Black 1035 is a very nice black with Gold glitter visible in the coating.

[Gateway Bullets]

Black is Black, shiny and slippery.
The Black 1035 is designed for Texas, and has metallics, as well as other stuff, to make it like liquid gold, just like Jedd Clampett found lol lol..

In reality, the Black has been modified to help with folk who wanted a tougher more heat resistant coating, but wished to continue to use a black coating.
The Black 1035 is a very nice black with Gold glitter visible in the coating.

What Joe said! Lol

I do have the black 1035 in stock in the powdered version along with the red copper, brown copper, black, and the zombie green.

[Mike Malat]

After reading about 50 pages of this thread, went ahead and ordered some powdered red copper from Gateway today. We'll see how it goes. I've been playing with PC and have been very happy with the results. Between PC and hopefully Hi-Tek this forum may have saved me from shelling out for a lube sizer. Been using Lee push through dies on an upside down Lee Challenger press and it's working very well.

[HI-TEK]

After reading about 50 pages of this thread, went ahead and ordered some powdered red copper from Gateway today. We'll see how it goes. I've been playing with PC and have been very happy with the results. Between PC and hopefully Hi-Tek this forum may have saved me from shelling out for a lube sizer. Been using Lee push through dies on an upside down Lee Challenger press and it's working very well.

Great news..
Just a quick message, the powdered Red Copper ( and any Hi-Tek powdered systems) cannot and must not be used like powder coating.
All Hi-Tek powders are specifically made, for making up solvent based coatings as required.
Hi-Tek powders must not be sprayed, or applied as powdered airborne or Electrostatic depositions.
They will not work in such applications.
Would appreciate your coating results when you use the Hi-Tek powder product.

[PAT303]

After reading about 50 pages of this thread, went ahead and ordered some powdered red copper from Gateway today. We'll see how it goes. I've been playing with PC and have been very happy with the results. Between PC and hopefully Hi-Tek this forum may have saved me from shelling out for a lube sizer. Been using Lee push through dies on an upside down Lee Challenger press and it's working very well.
If I get similar results I might sell my lube sizer,I long for the day of not having gummed up dies and cases,I figure my Lyman will sell for a good price,enough for another PB mold or two and a few years worth of coating. Pat

[PAT303]

Has anyone got pictures of the different black colors so we can see them?,I've got plain black West Casting boolits but would like photo's of the Texas tea and 1035. Pat

[Gateway Bullets]

After reading about 50 pages of this thread, went ahead and ordered some powdered red copper from Gateway today. We'll see how it goes. I've been playing with PC and have been very happy with the results. Between PC and hopefully Hi-Tek this forum may have saved me from shelling out for a lube sizer. Been using Lee push through dies on an upside down Lee Challenger press and it's working very well.

Thanks Mike!

[Mike Malat]

Thanks Hi-Tek, Understand that PC and your products use two different application methods. I'll post my results when able. My plan is to use the coating on 9mm, 38/357, 40 S&W, 45 ACP, and 45-70. 38/357 in handguns as well as rifle. 45-70 in rifle only :razz: (1100-1500fps range)

[Moonman]

Gateway Bullets,

Just ordered some HI-TEK Dry Power from you,

(not to be confused with DRY POWDER used in ELECTROSTATIC type coatings).

ZOMBIE GREEN and BLACK 1035 for me now.

I have THE LIQUID in DARK GREEN, GOLD, BRICK RED, AND GOLD 1035 still left.

Casting and Coating is a good hobby for me.

People at my range are AMAZED at the coating performance.

NO LUBE ON YOU OR YOUR EQUIPMENT, AND CLEAN BARRELS TOO IS A GREAT THING.

Thanks go out to HI-TEK Joe, Ausglock, Love Life and the other product testers.

[HI-TEK]

Gateway Bullets,

Just ordered some HI-TEK Dry Power from you,

(not to be confused with DRY POWDER used in ELECTROSTATIC type coatings).

ZOMBIE GREEN and BLACK 1035 for me now.

I have THE LIQUID in DARK GREEN, GOLD, BRICK RED, AND GOLD 1035 still left.

Casting and Coating is a good hobby for me.

People at my range are AMAZED at the coating performance.

NO LUBE ON YOU OR YOUR EQUIPMENT, AND CLEAN BARRELS TOO IS A GREAT THING.

Thanks go out to HI-TEK Joe, Ausglock, Love Life and the other product testers.

Moonman
Thanks four your input and kind support.
I really appreciate all the efforts from all who contributed and posted their results.

Your reports are also most appreciated.
I am glad that you are happy with the products.
I hope that Gateway is looking after you well.

Unfortunately, Gateway, could only be supplied with small quantity of various coloured powdered coatings, due the the fact that we were not set up at that time, with ability to make larger amounts.

We have larger commercial volume orders now from Bayou as well, which is yet to be made, and shipped.
It has been a slow and expensive project to get set up with larger scale manufacture.
I think it was worth the effort.
I simply hated to pay for all the many levies and taxes, for transporting and shipping solvent based coatings, so the concentrate powder version was next step with the project.

I must thank all the people in US for driving/steering the project towards such developments.
This is I suppose, market pressures.

All going well, there should be plenty of product available, when stock arrive to the US, with several colours being then available.
Happy shooting to all.

[Ausglock]

And there are more DRY-TEK coloured coatings in the works.
Joe has more new colours for me to test.
A few Pinks, Greens and blues.
Hope they work.

[Michael J. Spangler]

can't wait!

i talked a friend in to buying some dry-tek this week. everyone is amazed at the ease and performance of this product

[Gateway Bullets]

can't wait!

i talked a friend in to buying some dry-tek this week. everyone is amazed at the ease and performance of this product

Ain't that stuff slicker than a harpooned hippo in a banana tree? Lol

[Moonman]

And it's SMOOTHER than "FROG HAIR"

You ever feel the HAIR on a frog, SMOOTH BABY, it's really SMOOTH.

[Ausglock]

Nothing is as smooth as platypus pubes.

[Love Life]

It's almost as smooth as I am talking to the ladies.

[Gateway Bullets]

It's almost as smooth as I am talking to the ladies.

Time to head for higher ground, it's getting deep now!

[Balta]

I just spend last 3 days playing with HiTek powder coating...
And i want to know one thing...
Why is this thread named "SIMPLE"....? :)

[Ausglock]

I just spend last 3 days playing with HiTek powder coating...
And i want to know one thing...
Why is this thread named "SIMPLE"....? :)

Cause it is simple.
Mix coat bake coat bake size load shoot. Simple....

[HI-TEK]

Cause it is simple.
Mix coat bake coat bake size load shoot. Simple....


Is it not Mix, coat, Dry well, and then Bake, cool,
mix, coat, dry well, and bake, cool, then size & shoot?

[Ausglock]

Same. Same.

[HI-TEK]

Same. Same.


To all HI-TEK users or potential users.

Just want to advise, that I have had a few, that had tried to use solvents that were not pure Acetone or not pure MEK. (Industrial solvents)

Please do not use Nail polish type Acetone, (Nitro Thinner) or any other mixed solvent blends, unless you know actual composition of solvent mixture.
A lot of these mixtures will not dry adequately or contain oily type additives, and at worst, will not be compatible with HI-TEK resin system.

I am aware that many had contacted me and had failure after failure, and, only after many frustrating attempts to try and help, it was learnt that solvent used was not satisfactory and was mainly the causes of failures, aside from rushing the drying process.

Acetone or MEK can be obtained from most hardware stores.
Alternatively, you can approach Fiberglass tank or pool makers, as they use such solvents in large volumes.
They may sell you some from their bulk drums.

Hope this helps.

[PAT303]

Be patient with us,alot of us didn't listen at school,we were too busy daydreaming about shooting and fishing. Pat

[HI-TEK]

Be patient with us,alot of us didn't listen at school,we were too busy daydreaming about shooting and fishing. Pat

Hi Pat,

Thanks for your advice and support.

I suppose I am to blame, as I have not made the solvent aspects clear enough, and that is maybe why such things have happened.

Mate,,, I bludged at school lots, went fishing at every opportunity, until I realised that I was a mile behind other kids and was failing exams.
I had to do a lot of catching up just to scrape through.

[HATCH]

If your in the USA, Lowes or Home depot sells pure acetone in a metal container. It isn't that expensive.
Concerning the powder version. This is the easiest method to deal with and the most forgiving.
Publix grocery stores sells a glass measuring cup that has ML on it. Its just three bucks or so. While you are there get some plastic measuring spoons.
You can use anywhere from one tablespoon of powder to four tablespoons per 100ml of acetone .
I have done one and two tablespoons per 100ml.
The key is to start with a little solution to a pound of boolits (couple handfuls).
If you think you don't have enough solution chances are you have too much.
Remember even if you didn't use enough it would just mean you would need to do a third coat.

[HATCH]

It is critical that you keep your solution in a acetone safe container. Certain plastics will melt. I used a old shampoo bottle. Surprisingly its lasted two weeks so far.

Start with two tablespoons to 100ml.
Shake well.
Put a handful of boolits in the container then just a little bit (maybe 15 drops worth I you can imagine that amount)
Shake for 30 seconds. Its more like side to side shake. You can keep the lid off.
Look at them and look at the bottom of the container.
It might be wet but shouldn't have little puddles.

Dump on a flat surface (newspaper or parchment paper). Let dry for your 30 mins.
Then bake for 10 mins at 375 f

[HATCH]

Sorry for two post or any mistakes but typing on my phone.

[Balta]

HI TEK
I m very satisfeid with hitek coating , it is realy great product and cheap way to have bullets coated!
But new users, begginers like myself must be aware that this is very precise procedure. Wi ar talking hiere about mils , grams, minimal temperature, minutes of curing etc
Litlle mistake and you have fail.
So be prepare for that and be patient. And no shortcuts!
I did get desired results finnaly but it was litlle frustrating..:-) just a litlle ....

[HI-TEK]

HI TEK
I m very satisfied with Hi-Tek coating , it is really great product and cheap way to have bullets coated!
But new users, beginners like myself must be aware that this is very precise procedure. We are talking here about mils , grams, minimal temperature, minutes of curing etc
Little mistake and you have fail.
So be prepare for that and be patient. And no shortcuts!
I did get desired results finally but it was little frustrating..:-) just a little ....

BALTA

Thanks you much for update and kind support.

With solvent coatings, trying to make up very small coating mixtures can cause problems, as it is difficult to accurately measure very small amounts.
I always advise, that cast way to many first, then, coat and try to use up coating mixtures, even if you don't coat all your cast alloy.

Mixed Liquid & catalysed coating should be workable for a week or more, but try and use it up as quickly as possible.

With solvent coatings, please do not try and mix 1 drop of this, half a drop of that, and 2 drops of solvent.
It simply is false economy, as you end up wasting cast and coatings with failures.

With powdered systems, every thing is included in the material, and you can add small amount of extra powder to the Acetone, and if you need to, (and because every thing is in the powder mix), you can always keep adding a little more powder to the Acetone, to get the colour concentration you are happy with, as a coating mix.

Once you have a working system, simply reproduce it over and over again, and ensure that you take notes of what works for your system.

[Ausglock]

It is not hard to do.
Just take your time and do not over think the process.
Use the correct products.
Do not cut corners.

[Stephen Cohen]

I did 15 cast for a friends Snyder today, they are bloody huge hunks of lead so I had a tray in oven with 15 cast bullets in it, sure glad I don't own one of them myself. I also did another 1000 or so 125gr 9mm as well as a few hundred 230gr 45s. I still have not had any problems with the coating of cast, when al else fails follow the instructions.

[SpotHound]

JOE

Nearly out if the 5 litres I bought off you, what is the minimum order of dry powder?

S

[HATCH]

Balta, the powder version isn't as precise as you think.

15 to 60 grams of powder to 100ml of acetone.
I have used 15 and 30 and have had great results.
If you are having problems AND are using 100% acetone then I would say you are using too much solution to your batch.

[kweidner]

little update as I have been a bit quiet as of late. Went to Missourri first week of June to pick up MKIV bullet master and a half dozen sets of molds for it. I love the speed. 3600 an hour is very easy in 9mm.

I wanted a no lube groove .380 mold set. I had Tom build me one a set out of brass. They are truly a work of art. Brass seems to hold heat better than iron so why not. It was a good move. I had him build a set in 95gr BB specifically for coating.

I have cast coated and sized over 30000 this week alone. Had to start buying lead by the ton. If I could ever figure out why the site won't let me post pics from my ipad I could show you how nice they turn out. I may try downloading tap a talk and see if it will let me... stay tuned

[kweidner]

figured it out here are the molds set up with plates and keys

[kweidner]

and the result in gold!

[Balta]

110525
Balta, the powder version isn't as precise as you think.

15 to 60 grams of powder to 100ml of acetone.
I have used 15 and 30 and have had great results.
If you are having problems AND are using 100% acetone then I would say you are using too much solution to your batch.

I end up with god result. Just saying it is a precise procedure.

[Rompin Ruger]

Unlike most of you, I don't load/shoot the large quantities of boolits. I wanted something to let me get back in without all the muss of standard lube types.

Donnie set me up, got my goodies organized and finally got some boolits cast and ready to go for the .45 colt. 271 gr. big boys.

It was HOT outside and humid the day I worked, but it seemed to come out ok. My cylinders are en route from Doug Guy after getting a good reaming (If YOU need a good reaming, contact Doug) and i have some of the Gold ready to go..
.110538

I didn't have the fan, etc, so trying to be compliant to the 3000+ posts, I went over to the neighbors A/C unit and set my mesh trays on top his fan for the A/C and let them dry between coats.

I toasted them the time Donnie's instruction suggest, turned off the unit and then let them sit for a few minutes more. I had a thermometer in with the boolits, but didn't quite trust it...

They got a wee bit darker on the 2nd coat but the pic shows the 2nd bake on the top and the first bake (pure gold) on the bottom of pic.

Off to shoot them soon as I get my cylinders back this week...

Mixed using measuring spoons... 7 (1/2 Tblspoons(us)) and 5+ 1... shook till my arms ached and Donnie provides a ball or bullet inside his color mix... danged if I don't have a ton of dimples in that can from shaking so much! :razz:

Took my time. Followed directions and checked in with Donnie during the process.

First coat, the deep grease grooves didn't have full coating...Donnie commented that is how he knows guys are not using too much... but in the end, they sized up nice, no flaking or adhesion problems!

I thank all who developed, test, market and shared their experiences. I'm psyched!

[Ausglock]

Good job, RR.
You can take them out of the oven as soon as they are finished the 10 minutes.
leaving them in is what is darkening them.

[Rompin Ruger]

Thanks, AG. Once I put them in my somewhat smaller Oster Convection oven, the temp didn't drop...for a couple minutes, then it did. I "***-U-med" that was the big 270 gr boolits were absorbing heat and then the temp dropped after a few...

That is why I left them in a few min longer w/ heat off... but they're a golden almond color... if they work well, I don't mind. Just wanted to be sure they were "done"...:bigsmyl2:


Good job, RR.
You can take them out of the oven as soon as they are finished the 10 minutes.
leaving them in is what is darkening them.

[Gateway Bullets]

I had a big problem with acetone that I had purchased over the winter. It was contaminated with water and screwed up everything! But it seems the biggest problems that I have seen from the home user are as follows.

1. Failing to follow instructions (over baking, under baking, temps to high or to low, not allowing to dry properly, not mixing properly, etc etc etc)

2. Reusing bullets that have been lube sized.

3. Not using the proper acetone or solvent.

4. See number 1.

[Ausglock]

I really think HI-TEK Joe needs to lay off the booze and write a proper instruction manual.
Everyone keeps asking about instructions, But none are available.
This would test his 1 finger typing skills...:bigsmyl2:

[Gateway Bullets]

Trev,

i will try to post my instructions Monday when I get to my computer.

[HI-TEK]

I really think HI-TEK Joe needs to lay off the booze and write a proper instruction manual.
Everyone keeps asking about instructions, But none are available.
This would test his 1 finger typing skills...:bigsmyl2:


I make and supplied the test products.
Powdered versions of the Hi-Tek coatings are all new to this world........

As the official tester of the experimental products, you are supposed to under your multi million dollar contract, work out all the finer details to make the products work, then, publish your research papers and findings, which you failed to do.
Now your contracts have been torn up and shredded including secret formulas.:oops: :kidding:

If a full and comprehensive recipe book is required, that is no problem at all.
However, who is going to read it?
Who reads instruction manuals?????

IN short, you spoon out powder, chuck it into Acetone, mix and then coat, dry well, and then bake.
I need to ask, why would any one require a instruction booklet?

I need users/potential users to advise, what type of instruction booklet may be required and what will they consider would be useful.
I am happy to have a look at all suggestions, and pass it onto the product development team, and product testers for consideration, and for inclusion into any product usage instruction manual.

[Avenger442]

Some time ago I said I would share whatever I could on my testing with the Hi-Tek coating. My objective is to load for hunting. I don’t necessarily need to put all of my loads into a 1” at 100 yds. I need 2-3” at 100 yds. and maybe 4” circle at 300 yds. (a rare shot in my neck of the woods) enough velocity to put animal down cleanly with my .308. I believe I’m almost there. Will be working later with a .44 mag. load for my other rifle.
Coating Hi-Tek Gold 1035. Lead is wheel weight plus 2% tin. Water dropped after last coat. Load is the Lee C309-160R bullet, gas check and sized to 309 over Accurate 5744 in a Remington case with CCI primer.



Here they are coated three coats Gold 1035 and loaded.

Remington 700 with Remington scope 24” bull barrel. Range was a shade over 50 yards from a rest. Shot six different loads of the 5744 from 20 grains to 22.5 grains and Remington factory ammo 150 grain Core-Lok PSP (my normal factory hunting round).

Here are photos of results.




Don’t have a crono. Speeds are interpolated from data in the Lyman Reloading Handbook.
20.0 grains = 1672 fps spread 1-1/4"
20.5 grains = 1702 fps spread 1-1/2"
21.0 grains = 1732 fps spread 2-1/4"
21.5 grains = 1766 fps spread 1-1/4"
22.0 grains = 1793 fps spread 1-3/4"
22.5 grains = 1823 fps spread 1-3/4"

Remington factory ammo spreads were 1-1/4" to 2-1/4".

Almost forgot an important item. NO LEAD in barrel. I pushed a dry patch through it and took a photo. It was too blurry to really see how clean it was.

I'm happy with this.

Met a fellow caster picking up brass at the range who is looking at Hi-Tek coating on this forum. He had some of the painted and baked with him.

By the way, somewhere at the range I lost my box of empty cases. If anyone is at the public range Owls Hollow Rd. Gadsden, Al. and finds my brass let me know:redneck:

[PAT303]

Thats the type of post we need,nothing but straight out results on paper. Pat

[Gateway Bullets]

Good work Avenger442!!!!!

[Avenger442]

Thanks Guys.
I'm just happy God has allowed me the time and resources to do something I like to do.
If it weren't for this forum, and the guys who are helping in it, I would probably be messing with the 45-45-10 or something more expensive, messy and time consuming. So thanks to all of you for the help.

[Gateway Bullets]

This is a copy of the instruction I send out with my powdered hi-tek




Gateway Bullets
HI-TEK-LUBE Bullet Coating Instructions

Instructions and Recommendations
Read the instructions all the way through before starting. (We won’t tell anyone you did, your man card is safe)
*Use adequate protective gear including chemical resistant gloves, safety glasses, a respirator adequate for painting and USE COMMON SENSE. You are dealing with chemicals, not baking muffins. Do not use an oven you intend to cook in ever again.

Tools and equipment you will need:
1. HI-TEK-LUBE POWDERED VERSION and acetone.
2. The safety gear noted above.
3. Measuring tools. (A set of cheap metal or plastic measuring spoons works well)
4. Plastic containers to tumble bullets in. (A half-gallon bucket or disposable food containers are good, but any fairly strong, clean plastic container will work)
5. A container to mix the coating in. (A transparent restaurant-style ketchup bottle or similar dispensing bottle with a thin nozzle does a great job)
6. A roll or two of paper towels or shop rags.
7. Acetone. (This will be used to both mix the bullet coating and for cleanup)
8. A well-ventilated area for working in. (Not your kitchen or basement, outside or in an open garage away from open flames)
9. Flat wire baskets capable of holding the weight of bullets and withstanding the heat of the oven. (If you can’t find something adequate they are fairly easy and cheap to make from 1/4” hardware cloth)
10. An oven that can hold a temperature fairly well. (A toaster oven with a circulation fan can be had for about $40.00 and works great)
11. Clean lead bullets that have not been sized. If your bullets have wax, Alox, or any other lubricant on them, the acetone will dissolve it and contaminate the coating. Clean lead will produce great coating, waxy or dirty lead will cause coating failure. Sized lead bullets will not allow the coating to bond to the lead as the sizing process closes the pores on the surface of the bullet.
12. A little patience. Read the instructions fully BEFORE starting, (yes, I said it twice) and take your time. The coating process is not difficult but it can take a little practice to do it well. If it doesn’t go well the first time, go back and read the instructions again, usually a simple mistake is the problem. If you keep having problems call us, we’ll be happy to help.

What you need to know before starting:

1. A little goes a LONG way, start out with the smallest amount you can mix and around 100 bullets. If it comes out a little thin you can recoat them again after baking.
2. Two or three or even four thin coats works great. One thick coat will be rough looking, and will probably crack and flake off during sizing or loading.
3. Bullets with sharp edges and little flakes of lead hanging from them will coat fine, but during loading or sizing the flakes will usually break off and leave exposed lead. This isn’t the end of the world, but it can defeat the purpose of the coating. Smooth surfaces work better and the bullets tend to be more accurate.
4. Allow the bullets to dry fully once they are coated. If they go into the oven wet the coating will bubble up and look rough, and the fumes are harsh and flammable. Give adequate time to dry, the warmer and drier the space you work in the better. Coating may take as little as 10 minutes to several hours to dry. This is dependent on the ambient temperature and humidity.
5. Having several batches of bullets rotating through the oven at once will speed things up quite a bit, but wait until you get the hang of it before trying it. Once you have successfully done three or four batches of bullets you’ll feel like an old pro.
6. When you mix the coating, it’s better to have too much solvent than to have too little. Thick coats=bad bullets, thin coats=good bullets. A LIGHT STAIN IS BEST!
7. Experiment with your mix a little if your results aren’t what you want. Adding or taking away powder will usually cause coating failure. However, a little “fiddling” with the amount of Acetone can really make a difference depending on your working conditions.
8. For mix ratios of the powdered coating shoud be 20 grams (2-3 tablespoons) to 100 milliliters
(3.5 -4 ounces) of acetone . Use a mask and be careful, the fumes coming from the coating mix is NOT something you want to breathe.
9. Wear work clothes or an apron and cover your work area if you want to avoid stains. The first few times you use the coating it will be messy. Even after you get the hang of it it’s not a particularly clean process.
10. Reloading with HI-TEK-LUBE coated bullets should be done using quality reloading equipment with data obtained from a reloading manual. Use loading data that is normally used for your particular bullet and application. Gateway Bullets does NOT provide load data.
11. HI-TEK-LUBE coated bullets should be sized without further lubrication.
Step by step coating instructions.
1. Get a measuring spoon, mixing bottle, coating, catalyst (will not need catalyst for powdered version), and solvent. The coating separates in the bottle pretty quickly, so you’ll need to shake it well to make sure it’s mixed. Dropping a bullet into the bottle of coating before shaking will speed this up a LOT, as the solids in the coating will settle to the bottom and stick. The bullet will bounce around like the marble in an aerosol paint can and mix things thoroughly.
2. Put about 100 of the bullets you want to coat in the tumbling container and have them in reach, you’ll need them in a minute or two. This is a good time to set your oven between 375-395 degrees Fahrenheit.
3. Over a trash can or separate container measure out the coating first, the catalyst second, and the solvent third, pouring the mix into your clear mixing/dispensing (ketchup) bottle. Count out loud and tell your shooting buddies to shut it for a minute, it’s easier to lose count than you think. (Doing it in this order the measuring spoon is almost clean when you are done, and the coating gets sticky and hard to clean if it dries on the spoon)
4. Put the lid on the mixing bottle, cover the tip of the spout and shake for a few seconds to get everything mixed. During this shaking a small amount of pressure will build in the bottle, be careful when you take your uncover the spout, or the mix can spray out with the pressure.
5. Pour a VERY SMALL amount (we recommend 1cc/ml per pound of bullets) of mixture in the container uncovered with the bullets and start shaking. Shake them and rattle them around pretty rapidly, a good rule of thumb is to shake them as hard as you can without shaking them out of the container. Keep shaking for 15 to 20 seconds and do not allow the solvent to evaporate, which will happen pretty suddenly. (You will hear a distinct change in the sound of the bullets rattling around when the solvent evaporates).
6. After shaking for 15-20 seconds, empty them out into the wire basket. Make sure there is room under the basket for air to move. Spread them out until they are not touching each other. At this point the coating will be thin and a little sticky and you should still see lead through it fairly easily. If the coating looks rough or has a lumpy surface you likely used too much mixture, not enough solvent, or shook to long. This is not a big deal; just run them through like that or the uncured coating can be removed with clean solvent and redone.
7. While the bullets are drying, cap the bottle with the mix still in it and set it aside, you’ll need it for the next round of coating. You can speed up the drying process by using a fan to blow onto the bullets, but don’t rush it; the bullets need to be fully dried before they are baked.

8. Once the bullets are fully dried and the oven is set, put them in for 8-10 minutes to cure the coating. Watch the bullets for the first few minutes. If the coating starts to bubble, the bullets weren’t fully dried. Again, not a big deal, just allow a little more drying time on the next coat, and it will help to use a little more solvent or a smaller amount of mixed coating with the next batch to speed drying. The coating may change color slightly during baking, don’t worry, it’s normal.
9. Once the bullets are baked take them out and let them cool fully before the next application of coating and test to make sure coating has cured properly. If the bullets are coated hot, the solvent will evaporate too quickly and the coating will be lumpy and rough looking. After the bullets are thoroughly cooled inspect them, the coating should be fairly smooth and even, and should not scratch easily with a fingernail. (This does not mean that it cannot be scratched with a fingernail at all. Try to remember that you are not a gorilla.) See testing on final page.
10. Repeat the process (usually twice will do, but feel free to experiment) until the coating completely covers the bullet and little or no lead can be seen through it.
11. Size and load your coated bullets with appropriate Lead Bullet loading data from your favorite reloading manual.
12. Go Shooting!

TESTING THE BULLETS
Remove one or two bullets from the batch of bullets you have just coated after they have cooled to room temperature. Use a shop or paper towel and moisten with acetone. Rub the test bullets back and forth for 30 seconds. If proper curing has been obtained, there will not be any of the coating removed from the bullet and the towel should be free of any color transfer from the bullet. If it fails this test, STOP, and start over. The failure will be caused from low bake temperatures, improper bake time, not allowing to totally dry, too much coating used, or wrong mix ratio. Remember, it is better to use a little too much acetone and have VERY thin multiple coats as opposed to one thick heavy coat!

Next is the “smash test”. Place the above bullets on the floor or other sturdy object (use some common sense here and not the good dining room table) and literally smash the bullet with one blow. Check to see of the coating has become brittle by flaking off. If this has happened, the bullet has failed the test and you must start over. This failure is caused by either too high of a temperature when curing, curing time to long, or coating was applied to think.

Basic Data and Mix Ratios.

POWDER.
Mix 20 grams (2-3 tablespoons) of powdered coating to 100ml (3.5-4 ounces) of acetone. .
Bake Temperature: 375 to 395 Degrees Fahrenheit
Bake Time: 8-10 Minutes
Drying Time: Normally 7-10 Minutes. However, depending on ambient temperature and humidity levels, the drying time may take substantially longer. (1-24 hours)

Safety notice (Use your head).
When handling toxic metals (lead) and chemicals PLEASE BE CAREFUL. Normal precautions should be taken. MSDS for products carried by Gateway Bullets will be provided upon request.

THIS IS NOT POWDER COATING AND SHOULD NOT BE USED AS SUCH! THIS PRODUCT NEEDS TO BE MIXED WITH A SOLVENT PRIOR TO USE AND TUMBLED ONTO YOUR BULLETS. IT SHOULD NOT BE SPRAYED ONTO ONTO YOUR BULLETS!

Shooting is a great sport and part of our American heritage. Please support the NRA and your state and local shooting and firearms rights groups. These are the people that work to ensure your Second Amendment rights are protected.

Gateway Bullets
PO Box 100
Lonedell MO 60360
636-629-5555
www.gatewaybullets.com
© Copyright 2014, Gateway Bullets; All Rights Reserved

[Ausglock]

Good job, Mr Gateway.

[Moonman]

Nice write up Gateway.

MODS, This needs to become a HI-TEK coating process STICKY!

[Ausglock]

Ditto.

[Avenger442]

Thanks Gateway. Do you have the Black 1035 powder in stock? And, is it the one with the gold metal flake look?

[Gateway Bullets]

Why yes sir I do

[leadman]

Avenger442, you may want to try a slower powder to get better results. I posted a couple of pages back my results with the Lee 200gr in my Savage 30-06. Velocities were equal to jacketed with the accuracy that would be fine for hunting. I used H1000 for that testing.
I have also shot the Lee Bator 22 cal in my Contender 223 Rem to over 3,600 fps with decent hunting accuracy. That is also posted back aways in this thread.

[leadman]

For the recent members that have joined us a very good was to track the temperature is with the Digital Volt/Ohm Mutimeter from the Auto section at Walmart. It comes with a thermocouple that can be slipped in the door edge. Only about $20 and is more accurate than the kitchen oven temperature gauges. Has many other uses also.

[Michael J. Spangler]

Do you have a link to the specific multimeter or a product code and brand name? Thanks!

[Avenger442]

Avenger442, you may want to try a slower powder to get better results. I posted a couple of pages back my results with the Lee 200gr in my Savage 30-06. Velocities were equal to jacketed with the accuracy that would be fine for hunting. I used H1000 for that testing.
I have also shot the Lee Bator 22 cal in my Contender 223 Rem to over 3,600 fps with decent hunting accuracy. That is also posted back aways in this thread.

Leadman
I remember the post.
I as reading the Lyman Handbook and they had suggested the A 5744 and SR 7625 as powders with the potential for the most accurate load with a 160 gr. lead bullet. I could find the 5744 so that's what I used. I was trying to keep the pressure around 20,000 psi because of the lead alloy I was using. Maybe I could go to H-4895 and see what the result is. It looks like the pressure in the loads with 4895 might be more than the alloy can take. I've used it with Hornady jacketed with good results in this gun. Going to study some more on this before I go to the next powder.

I, recently, also cast some of the Lee Bantor 22 using 50/50 wheel weight/lino with some tin added. Not such a costly mix with a bullet the size of the 22. I haven't tested the hardness for this mix yet but hoping to hit a 21 BHN or more so I can up the pressure and load some .223 for some test.

But, like I said in the post, the 44 mag rifle is next. Unless I change my mind, it's going to be a 230 gr.(my cast weight) Lee bullet, same alloy as the .308 and IMR 4227. But, as always, open to the voice of experience.

[leadman]

Avenger442, I have been heat treating my alloys before coating and then water quenching after the last coat. I am able to maintain a higher hardness level this way.
Your loads are already probably past the 20K mark. I too was able to buy some 5744 and gave it a try but it just did not work well. I actually starting to get leading with this powder where I did not with the slower powders. Around here the really slow powders for the large magnum cartridges are available so If you give up maybe you can find some.

I have tried mixing an alloy for the 223 but have had mixed results so now just cast with straight linotype. A pound goes a long ways for these little boolits.

[HATCH]

With the coating you can run a softer boolit then you normally would. I would dare say that you could almost use pure lead in most pistol rounds but I haven't tested it.
Gateway, might need to add that you need a acetone safe measuring cup for the 100ml. Most cheap plastic ones will melt. Ask me how I know........

[Avenger442]

Avenger442, I have been heat treating my alloys before coating and then water quenching after the last coat. I am able to maintain a higher hardness level this way.
Your loads are already probably past the 20K mark. I too was able to buy some 5744 and gave it a try but it just did not work well. I actually starting to get leading with this powder where I did not with the slower powders. Around here the really slow powders for the large magnum cartridges are available so If you give up maybe you can find some.

I have tried mixing an alloy for the 223 but have had mixed results so now just cast with straight linotype. A pound goes a long ways for these little boolits.

Leadman
Also tried heat treating before coating. Tested bullets about a week after casting. Heat treated waited a week tested BHN and then coated two coats tested again. The heating to coat the bullets (390 deg.) returned the bullet to almost what it was a week after casting (about 14.3 BHN). I've come to the conclusion, at least with this alloy, that heat treating is probably a waist of time. I did water drop after the third coat but was running out of time to work on loads and did not test after the water drop before I tested the load. Probably need to do that.

I am going to load with some H4895 in the .308 (slowest powder I have on hand) and take it with me when I test the 44 mag. Going to have to find some load data that will keep the pressure lower than I'm using with the jacketed. If I remember right those loads were well into 30,000 psi. I'm probably going to need an alloy above 21 BHN to push it that hard. I don't like to use an expensive alloy unless it is absolutely necessary. Hatch may be right that you can run a softer alloy than normal with this coating? Someone want to test this hypothesis?

Remind me, did you test the BHN of the 30 cal bullet you used after coating? I did read your post but don't remember all of it. Would also like to know the BHN of the 22s you shot if you have it. It would help when I go there. One of my objectives is to load for an AR I have. But I need to know there is no leading.

This stuff is fun.

[Redwoode]

Cured properly does powder coating red copper or brown copper more closely resemble a factory jacketed bullet's color?

[Redwoode]

Hi-Tek that is...

[Ausglock]

Brown copper would be the closest to jacketed colour.

[Balta]

Anyone have pic of Brown Copper coated bullet?

[HI-TEK]

Cured properly does powder coating red copper or brown copper more closely resemble a factory jacketed bullet's color?

All the Powdered versions of the Hi-Tek coatings, should produce the same colours as the solvent based systems, as the Powdered versions contain all similar materials as the liquids, but without solvents.
Essentially, the only difference is, that powders users, prepare the liquid coating system from the powder, before using the mixture to coat.

[Redwoode]

Isn't there something with Kryptonite green that is a bit different in powder vs liquid. Seem to recall Ausglock mentioning it in a post a ways back.

[HI-TEK]

Isn't there something with Kryptonite green that is a bit different in powder vs liquid. Seem to recall Ausglock mentioning it in a post a ways back.

You are right.
The Kryptonite green is only available as a liquid. no powdered version as yet.

[Mike Malat]

I received my Red Copper powder from Gateway today 9 days after placing the order. Within their promised delivery date. It's my first time working with the product so I'd thought I'd share my experience.

I got 7oz of the product and it came in two 3.5 oz containers. Well packed as you can see. (Acetone compliments of Home Depot not Gateway. :-) )

111159

The instructions were well written and to ensure that they don't get lost, they're also on the label.

The powder is VERY VERY fine so keep that in mind when around fans. The cooper was easily seen within the powder.

111160

I went out to the garage and mixed 1TBSP to 50ml of acetone. I wanted to start out with a small batch before going whole hog. I planned on coating around 100 40 cal (3 lbs) and 100 35 cal (~2lbs) of pistol boolits. Per the directions I used ~ 3cc of the solution on to the first batch of boolits and swirled away in a cool whip container. As mentioned in other posts, 30 secs later there was a noticeable change in the sound and about 15 seconds later I dumped them on a drying rack. If it wasn't mentioned numerous times I would have thought that they were not coated enough.

111164

Above. Drying after the first coat and before going into the oven. The coating is barely visible and does not show much covering.

Humidity was down so it only took about 5 minutes before they were dry and into the oven they went. It's a $10 toaster oven from goodwill that I've been using for PC'ing with heating elements above and below but not a convection oven. Temp was controlled via the dial and I didn't use an oven thermometer. I'll be picking one up before I do another batch. They went into a hot oven for 10 mins.

111165

Out of the oven after the first coat. They had a lot more color than I expected based on what they looked like before going in the oven. Did a wipe test and smash test and they passed. Put the batch of .40 cals into the oven while the .35's were cooling.

Applied a second coat and below are the results after baking. Wipe and smash tests passed.

111166

3rd and final coat below. I noticed that some of the lube grooves were not covered however all of the bearing surfaces were so I considered it a success. I suspect that if I used a bit more solution when coating, I'd get complete coverage.

111167

Overall I'm very pleased with the results. The Red Copper coating looks more like Red/bronze so I'm not sure if they got a tad over cooked or not. Since the photos were taken, I've already loaded and boxed the .40 cal boolits. I'll let them age harden for a week before sending them down range. The .35 cal 125's will be loaded in 38 spl and 357 mag for a lever action rifle. I'm curious how the 125's / coating will hold up in the 357.

Thanks for putting up with a long winded post.

[HI-TEK]

I received my Red Copper powder from Gateway today 9 days after placing the order. Within their promised delivery date. It's my first time working with the product so I'd thought I'd share my experience.

I got 7oz of the product and it came in two 3.5 oz containers. Well packed as you can see. (Acetone compliments of Home Depot not Gateway. :-) )

111159

The instructions were well written and to ensure that they don't get lost, they're also on the label.

The powder is VERY VERY fine so keep that in mind when around fans. The cooper was easily seen within the powder.

111160

I went out to the garage and mixed 1TBSP to 50ml of acetone. I wanted to start out with a small batch before going whole hog. I planned on coating around 100 40 cal (3 lbs) and 100 35 cal (~2lbs) of pistol boolits. Per the directions I used ~ 3cc of the solution on to the first batch of boolits and swirled away in a cool whip container. As mentioned in other posts, 30 secs later there was a noticeable change in the sound and about 15 seconds later I dumped them on a drying rack. If it wasn't mentioned numerous times I would have thought that they were not coated enough.

111164

Above. Drying after the first coat and before going into the oven. The coating is barely visible and does not show much covering.

Humidity was down so it only took about 5 minutes before they were dry and into the oven they went. It's a $10 toaster oven from goodwill that I've been using for PC'ing with heating elements above and below but not a convection oven. Temp was controlled via the dial and I didn't use an oven thermometer. I'll be picking one up before I do another batch. They went into a hot oven for 10 mins.

111165

Out of the oven after the first coat. They had a lot more color than I expected based on what they looked like before going in the oven. Did a wipe test and smash test and they passed. Put the batch of .40 cals into the oven while the .35's were cooling.

Applied a second coat and below are the results after baking. Wipe and smash tests passed.

111166

3rd and final coat below. I noticed that some of the lube grooves were not covered however all of the bearing surfaces were so I considered it a success. I suspect that if I used a bit more solution when coating, I'd get complete coverage.

111167

Overall I'm very pleased with the results. The Red Copper coating looks more like Red/bronze so I'm not sure if they got a tad over cooked or not. Since the photos were taken, I've already loaded and boxed the .40 cal boolits. I'll let them age harden for a week before sending them down range. The .35 cal 125's will be loaded in 38 spl and 357 mag for a lever action rifle. I'm curious how the 125's / coating will hold up in the 357.

Thanks for putting up with a long winded post.

Thanks much for your post.
As a first time user of the powdered version, you have done well.
Can you please describe in much more detail about your mix, and your making it up, and appearances, and how long before you used it?

One tablespoonful I think is about 20 grams ( not 100% sure). You placed that amount of powder into 50 mls Acetone.
I am thinking, ( a bad thing, thinking) that may be not all the powder was not completely mixed into the solvent.
The reason I am thinking along this line is, that your first coat seems OK, but a little low on Red Copper colour content.

After baking first coat, the colour that seems to have developed, suggests a little over cooking, as it is more golden Tan, than a Red Copper colour. Should not be a problem.

This is overall, your pictures and descriptions, is suggesting to me, that you had dissolved some of the powder, but may be not adequately, and this is reason why you had, with time, andthe 3 coats,
( and possibly slightly over cooked), formed the Red Copper colour with a more Tan finish with final colour.

If coating after final bake passes all tests well, it should work OK.
The final coat is getting more towards the right colour, but as some tests already showed, that despite a little over-bake, the coatings should work OK.

Not wasting coating into lube groove is not a problem.
Your shooting results would be greatly appreciated.

[Avenger442]

Mike
Please give us a range report after your test. Especially on the lever action 357 mag. I'm about to load up some 44 mag for a lever action and would like to know about your experience. Don't worry about being long winded. We don't mind. Don't forget the photos.

[Alley Cat]

Has anyone ever tried using one color on the first coating followed by another color on subsequent coatings? Just curious if there is a positive effect by combining the strengths of each type (ie- non-metallic overcoated with a metallic type). Is it possible to vary the final color by blending the colors of each coat?

[HI-TEK]

Has anyone ever tried using one color on the first coating followed by another color on subsequent coatings? Just curious if there is a positive effect by combining the strengths of each type (ie- non-metallic overcoated with a metallic type). Is it possible to vary the final color by blending the colors of each coat?

Yes, that has been done many times over the years, so people "make" their "own" colour.
All colours are compatible and can overcoat to get unique finished colour.
Some pre-blend, others coat with say Black and then Gold, some mix black & gold some mix Red and gold, some mix Red copper and Black.
Main thing is if you are blending, then you must be able to as close as possible mix ratio of well mixed colours, used at the same mixture rates each time.
If you coat with one, then coat with another colour, take notes of how much of each you use, to reproduce the final colour you are happy with.

[Mike Malat]

[QUOTE]Can you please describe in much more detail about your mix, and your making it up, and appearances, and how long before you used it?/QUOTE]

Placed 1TBSP of the powder in the container along with 3 lead round balls used for agitation. I then poured the 50ml of acetone in on top of the powder, screwed on the lid and began agitating for about 5-8 secs and then removed my finger from the spout to relieve the pressure that had built up in the container. During that initial shake the solution was a bright red. I then continued to shake for about an additional 2 minutes at which time I then immediately applied ~3cc on the boolits and started to swirl. After swirling and dumping them on the rack to dry I noticed that the powder was not dissolved, it came out of suspension and settled to the bottom of the mixing container after about a minute or so. Being my first time, I was not sure if this was normal or not. Before each application, I would shake the mixture for about 30 seconds (just like a paint spray can) before pouring ~3cc into the bucket with the boolits. After the 3rd application and about an hr after I had first mixed the powder/acetone the solution would still separate after a minute or so after I stopped agitating it.

Below are two photos of the mix where you can see where the acetone and powder had separated. The first photo was taken after the 3rd application ~45-60minutes after first mixing it. The second photo was just taken, approximately 6.5 hrs after initial mixing. You'll notice that there isn't much difference between the two.

~45 minutes
111172

~6.5hrs later

111173

In the 2nd photo the acetone appears to be a bit darker. That is not the case, but due to the lighting conditions when the images were taken. The solution @ 6 hrs is the same color as it was an hour into the process.



If there are any other questions, please feel free to ask.

@Avenger - Weather permitting, I should have a report next week. I'm planning on going to the range tomorrow to try some PC'd .40 and .45 (45-70 out of a Marlin) tomorrow.

[HI-TEK]

[QUOTE]Can you please describe in much more detail about your mix, and your making it up, and appearances, and how long before you used it?/QUOTE]

Placed 1TBSP of the powder in the container along with 3 lead round balls used for agitation. I then poured the 50ml of acetone in on top of the powder, screwed on the lid and began agitating for about 5-8 secs and then removed my finger from the spout to relieve the pressure that had built up in the container. During that initial shake the solution was a bright red. I then continued to shake for about an additional 2 minutes,
My Reply at this point. Initial mixing may not have been adequate before using.
Most mix, and leave, with occasional mixing, and would not use fresh mixture sometimes until next day, and that way every thing is "conditioned and mixed"
Settling of colour with standing liquid is normal.


at which time I then immediately applied ~3cc on the boolits and started to swirl.
My reply, that explains why you got mainly resin coloured solution on first coat with little Red Copper.

After swirling and dumping them on the rack to dry I noticed that the powder was not dissolved,
My Reply... Not every thing dissolves and needs re-suspending just as you coat.

it came out of suspension and settled to the bottom of the mixing container after about a minute or so. Being my first time, I was not sure if this was normal or not.
My Reply... That is normal for solvent mixtures.


Before each application, I would shake the mixture for about 30 seconds (just like a paint spray can) before pouring ~3cc into the bucket with the boolits.
My Reply.... That is OK, normal procedure..

After the 3rd application and about an hr after I had first mixed the powder/acetone the solution would still separate after a minute or so after I stopped agitating it.

My reply..... that is OK and is normal.

Below are two photos of the mix where you can see where the acetone and powder had separated. The first photo was taken after the 3rd application ~45-60minutes after first mixing it. The second photo was just taken, approximately 6.5 hrs after initial mixing. You'll notice that there isn't much difference between the two.
My Reply.... The 45-60 minute and 6.5 hr mixtures are both OK and are typical.

I was just thinking that your mixture, after 2-3 minutes after mixing, (as used on first coat), may have been "not quite ready" to use, and that is why may be you did not get a better colour on first coat.

It all seems to have worked out OK, as you did eventually get closer to colour required.
I still say. you have done well for a first time user.
I hope that you are happy with the product.

~45 minutes
111172

~6.5hrs later

111173



If there are any other questions, please feel free to ask.

@Avenger - Weather permitting, I should have a report next week. I'm planning on going to the range tomorrow to try some PC'd .40 and .45 (45-70 out of a Marlin) tomorrow.


My replies are with your comments/

[Mike Malat]

Thanks Hi-Tek for your feedback. Very much appreciated and one of the reasons why I decided to go with your product in the first place. I read almost all of this thread before deciding to give the coating a try and placing my order with Gateway. So far I'm very happy with the results, no nasty surprises and very easy to work with. I was looking for an alternative to the lube size option and with Hi-Tek and PC I think I've found it.

I had started down the LLA route which was working well with my 45 ACP loads however not so well in my Rossi lever action in 357/38 +P velocities. I then went down the PC route which has been working well, however all the time I was thinking there had to be a quicker way than picking up each boolit and placing it on the rack. Hi-Tek takes the best of both, whats not to like. :-)

From my reading this thread, it seems that the Red Copper is suggested for applications where you're wanting higher velocities, that where the 125gr in the Rossi will come into play. :bigsmyl2: So far, all I know is that this forum has opened my mind to casting my own vs buying cast and in the process it's emptied my wallet. lol. (so far I've saved some $$$ on not buying a lube-sizer. However I did buy a lee challenger press to mount it upside down for my push through sizer dies. Another great idea.... and back to that empty wallet theme).

[HI-TEK]

Thanks Hi-Tek for your feedback. Very much appreciated and one of the reasons why I decided to go with your product in the first place. I read almost all of this thread before deciding to give the coating a try and placing my order with Gateway. So far I'm very happy with the results, no nasty surprises and very easy to work with. I was looking for an alternative to the lube size option and with Hi-Tek and PC I think I've found it.

I had started down the LLA route which was working well with my 45 ACP loads however not so well in my Rossi lever action in 357/38 +P velocities. I then went down the PC route which has been working well, however all the time I was thinking there had to be a quicker way than picking up each boolit and placing it on the rack. Hi-Tek takes the best of both, whats not to like. :-)

From my reading this thread, it seems that the Red Copper is suggested for applications where you're wanting higher velocities, that where the 125gr in the Rossi will come into play. :bigsmyl2: So far, all I know is that this forum has opened my mind to casting my own vs buying cast and in the process it's emptied my wallet. lol. (so far I've saved some $$$ on not buying a lube-sizer. However I did buy a lee challenger press to mount it upside down for my push through sizer dies. Another great idea.... and back to that empty wallet theme).


Thanks much for your blog and vote of confidence.
Looks like you have plenty of coating mixture left for coating some more cast.

Just one more question.
How did you go with sizing the final coated projectiles?
Did it affect the coating at all, and, any observations?

[leadman]

Michael Splanger, the meters I bought have been changed slightly. The new version is Extech MN35, $19.99. These are located in the Walmart auto section. The come with the K style thermocouple.
A have purchased spare thermocouple off E-bay that are identical to the ones that come with the meter for less than $2 each.

Avenger442, I did test the boolits before and after coating. After heat treating they were 35BHN, after coating they were 32 to 34 BHN.
Richard Lee's Modern Reloading manual contains a chart of boolit hardness versus strength psi and pressure max psi. This manual contains some good info in it and is not very expensive.

For a 21 BHN boolit the the max (chamber) psi is about 26,800 psi with the strength being about 31,016 psi. [Max (chamber) psi must be less than strength psi. ]

For a 33bhn boolit the max (chamber) psi is 42,256 psi with the strength being 46,951 psi.

I have found this to be a fairly close method of checking to ensure your alloy is up to the psi you are going to subject it to. For this to work the gun has to be capable of shooting accurately and not have issues like I have found with some off center chambers or no leade in the barrel.

I think I have "cheated" this chart and gone beyond the pressure listed with the coating in guns that shoot very well.

My experimenting has come to a halt for now as I think I have a bad disk in my lower back if I read the MRI correctly. Been down about 2 weeks and finally went to the VA emergency room Tuesday then had an MRI Friday. I'm on stout pain killers so do not want to be playing with gunpowder!

[Ausglock]

Mike.
When testing the powdered DRY-TEK I mixed 1 TBLSP (20gms) to 100mls of acetone.
This gave a thinner coating that allowed you to use a bit more for each coat and this got into the grooves. You are not using more coating, just more acetone to carry the coating into the grooves.
I still use this ratio for all powder testing. Even at this ratio, 2 coats is all that is needed. 3 coats is overkill.

[farmerjim]

Mike.
When testing the powdered DRY-TEK I mixed 1 TBLSP (20gms) to 100mls of acetone.
This gave a thinner coating that allowed you to use a bit more for each coat and this got into the grooves. You are not using more coating, just more acetone to carry the coating into the grooves.
I still use this ratio for all powder testing. Even at this ratio, 2 coats is all that is needed. 3 coats is overkill.
Dec 3 2013 quote
5-1-7 mix. 250 9 mm 125 gr bullets get 7 mls of coating. Easy. No rocket science needed.

I just got my Hi-Tek powder and was thinking that 20 grams to 50 ml was too concentrated. I like to use more of a dilute solution to get the Hi-Tek to cover better.

How much of the 20 grams to 100 ml are you using on 250 9mm (125 grain ?) boolits ?

[Avenger442]

Leadman
Sorry to hear about the back. Asking God to give you some help.

[Gremlin460]

. (so far I've saved some $$$ on not buying a lube-sizer. However I did buy a lee challenger press to mount it upside down for my push through sizer dies. Another great idea.... and back to that empty wallet theme).

I can help empty it... have a peek here....
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?238711-Home-made-auto-sizer


On another note, coated some with red I got from Joe last year that had been standing around, even after months and months , I had no issues with the coating.

[Mike Malat]

Just one more question.
How did you go with sizing the final coated projectiles?
Did it affect the coating at all, and, any observations?

Pre coating size of the .40 cal's were ~.402-.4023 (NOE Mould) - after 3 coats of Hi-Tek they were ~.405. Ran them through a lee push through that I had polished/opened up to .402. No adverse impact to the coating, very little resistance going through the die. Where the coating and die touched there was a 'polished/glossy' look to the coating similar to what I've seen for any sized boolit.

@asuglock Going forward, I'll be using a thinner solution. Some more will be going into the oven later today after I pick up a thermometer.

@Gremlin. I've been following your thread after stumbling upon it a few weeks ago. A brilliant piece of work and it's another item that's been tugging at my wallet but I need to resist the urge for now.

[Ausglock]

Dec 3 2013 quote
5-1-7 mix. 250 9 mm 125 gr bullets get 7 mls of coating. Easy. No rocket science needed.

I just got my Hi-Tek powder and was thinking that 20 grams to 50 ml was too concentrated. I like to use more of a dilute solution to get the Hi-Tek to cover better.

How much of the 20 grams to 100 ml are you using on 250 9mm (125 grain ?) boolits ?

At 20gms:100mls I still use the same amount of mixed coating. 7mls.

[farmerjim]

Thanks Ausglock
The 5-1-7 and 7ml works great for me so with your knowledge and experience with the powder I am sure I will get great results with it too.

[atygrit]

OK, I'm STILL having problems with this coating! I purchased the new powder (way easier to mix [smilie=p:), specifically Black 1035 from Gateway Bullets, which I received it in one day, which is great!

I have a PID on my oven and I'm assuming the temperature is accurate, but if it isn't at least it should be repeatable. The problem I'm having is, I'm getting the coating to wipe off during the wipe test.

I created a smaller batch for my first use of the new powder, I mixed 1 tsp to 25 ml of acetone and used 1 ml per pound of bullets. As I'm typing this, I think my ratios are off! If the mix doesn't contain enough acetone, would that make it fail the wipe test?

If I wanted to make the mix in smaller batches, would the correct ratio be .5 TSP to 25 ml of acetone?

[HI-TEK]

OK, I'm STILL having problems with this coating! I purchased the new powder (way easier to mix [smilie=p:), specifically Black 1035 from Gateway Bullets, which I received it in one day, which is great!

I have a PID on my oven and I'm assuming the temperature is accurate, but if it isn't at least it should be repeatable. The problem I'm having is, I'm getting the coating to wipe off during the wipe test.

I created a smaller batch for my first use of the new powder, I mixed 1 tsp to 25 ml of acetone and used 1 ml per pound of bullets. As I'm typing this, I think my ratios are off! If the mix doesn't contain enough acetone, would that make it fail the wipe test?

If I wanted to make the mix in smaller batches, would the correct ratio be .5 TSP to 25 ml of acetone?

There are 4 areas below, I would appreciate your responses.

The ratio is 20 grams powder (1 Tablespoon) to 100 mls Pure Acetone. Easy to measure.

1. When making up your coating mix, how long did you mix before using?
2 After coating, how long did you allow to dry? What was ambient conditions during drying?
3.How many did you place into the pre-heated oven set at 200C? How long did you bake?
4.Did you allow baked projectiles to cool before solvent test

As advised many times previously by various users, dont try to make up very small quantities.
It is counter productive.
The whole idea is, make up your mixture, say a minimum of 50 mls, then you cast many first, and then , and try to use coating mixture up, and leave you non coated cast.
Even if you dont use up all the coating mixture, it should be stable in a well sealed container and kept out of sunlight and cool.

[Rompin Ruger]

I shared some pics of my first attempt at cooking up some gold large caliber (.45 colt 270 gr boolits) the other week. I finally got out to shoot them.

I had DougGuy here hone out my cylinders on my 45 colt Ruger NMBH's (blue and a SS longer (7.5") bbl hunter.

here are my targets at 25 yards for the SS 7.5" with a sandbag and low power aiming device for my old eyes!

I had a relatively clean barrel. Slight leading nearer the muzzle and that gun, leaded like a printing press in days bygone before Doug's work, so Doug's reaming did it some good, and the coating did it's job!

Boolit is the RCBS 45-270-SAA modified keith, pushed by 19, 19.5, 20.0 & 20.5 for the below targets. That NMBH thumps my middle finger big knuckle and after I'd shot two test runs of 5, it was SORE and my groups really opened up on the far top right target...

I quit and shot .38 and .357's for a while... some 45acp out of the convertable 45's other cylinder and then shot the hottest of the group, the 20.5 and they were right back on line... so 20.0 was shooter error from being pounded!

I loaded up another 68 of them to do some off-hand hunting practice for an upcoming hog hunt.

111248

My attempts--

111249

2nd bake at top and 1st bake/coat on lower tray!

I think I'm going to love this stuff!

[atygrit]

There are 4 areas below, I would appreciate your responses.

The ratio is 20 grams powder (1 Tablespoon) to 100 mls Pure Acetone. Easy to measure.

1. When making up your coating mix, how long did you mix before using?
2 After coating, how long did you allow to dry? What was ambient conditions during drying?
3.How many did you place into the pre-heated oven set at 200C? How long did you bake?
4.Did you allow baked projectiles to cool before solvent test

As advised many times previously by various users, dont try to make up very small quantities.
It is counter productive.
The whole idea is, make up your mixture, say a minimum of 50 mls, then you cast many first, and then , and try to use coating mixture up, and leave you non coated cast.
Even if you dont use up all the coating mixture, it should be stable in a well sealed container and kept out of sunlight and cool.

1. 10 minutes or so.
2. Approximately 15 minutes with a fan. The temperature was great, probably 90 degrees Fahrenheit and low humidity.
3. I ran the 1st batch at 395 Fahrenheit for 10 minutes and the 2nd and 3rd I cooked hotter and longer to see if it would at least pass the wipe test. I figured if I can get it to pass the wipe test, that will be a significant accomplishment and I'd worry about the smash test later.
4. Yes, they were completely cool to the touch before the wipe test.

After my post I thought I might have the ratio off so I made another small batch. I don't really like around or about when doing this kind of stuff, so I converted 20 grams to grains, because I have a reloading scale that measures in grains. 5 grams equals 77.16 grains. I combined 77.16 grains (5 grams) with 25 ml of acetone. I didn't realize it is an issue to make smaller batches, why would it matter if the ratios are correct?

In Gateway Bullets instructions it states: " Mix 20 grams (2-3 tablespoons) of powdered coating to 100ml (3.5-4 ounces) of acetone." But you state 20 grams is 1 Tablespoon. What is correct? Is it OK to convert grams to grains and mix it precisely based on weight?

Also, the new batch I cooked for 10 minutes at 400 Fahrenheit didn't pass the wipe test either.

Thanks for any help you can provide.

[Michael J. Spangler]

michael splanger, the meters i bought have been changed slightly. The new version is extech mn35, $19.99. These are located in the walmart auto section. The come with the k style thermocouple.
A have purchased spare thermocouple off e-bay that are identical to the ones that come with the meter for less than $2 each.

Avenger442, i did test the boolits before and after coating. After heat treating they were 35bhn, after coating they were 32 to 34 bhn.
Richard lee's modern reloading manual contains a chart of boolit hardness versus strength psi and pressure max psi. This manual contains some good info in it and is not very expensive.

For a 21 bhn boolit the the max (chamber) psi is about 26,800 psi with the strength being about 31,016 psi. [max (chamber) psi must be less than strength psi. ]

for a 33bhn boolit the max (chamber) psi is 42,256 psi with the strength being 46,951 psi.

I have found this to be a fairly close method of checking to ensure your alloy is up to the psi you are going to subject it to. For this to work the gun has to be capable of shooting accurately and not have issues like i have found with some off center chambers or no leade in the barrel.

I think i have "cheated" this chart and gone beyond the pressure listed with the coating in guns that shoot very well.

My experimenting has come to a halt for now as i think i have a bad disk in my lower back if i read the mri correctly. Been down about 2 weeks and finally went to the va emergency room tuesday then had an mri friday. I'm on stout pain killers so do not want to be playing with gunpowder!

thanks man!!

[redrockant]

20 Grams =0.706 oz, 0.706oz = 308.87gr

[Ausglock]

OK, I'm STILL having problems with this coating! I purchased the new powder (way easier to mix [smilie=p:), specifically Black 1035 from Gateway Bullets, which I received it in one day, which is great!

I have a PID on my oven and I'm assuming the temperature is accurate, but if it isn't at least it should be repeatable. The problem I'm having is, I'm getting the coating to wipe off during the wipe test.

I created a smaller batch for my first use of the new powder, I mixed 1 tsp to 25 ml of acetone and used 1 ml per pound of bullets. As I'm typing this, I think my ratios are off! If the mix doesn't contain enough acetone, would that make it fail the wipe test?

If I wanted to make the mix in smaller batches, would the correct ratio be .5 TSP to 25 ml of acetone?

Are you using "real" Acetone??? Not cheap nail polish remover or other rubbish.

Get yourself an Ebay digi scale that weighs in grams and measure the 20 gms.

The mixed coating will last for over a month when mixed. don't be scared of it "going off" I have mixed coating on my bench that has been sitting for over 2 months. coated with it the other day and it is still perfect.

[HI-TEK]

Are you using "real" Acetone??? Not cheap nail polish remover or other rubbish.

Get yourself an Ebay digi scale that weighs in grams and measure the 20 gms.

The mixed coating will last for over a month when mixed. don't be scared of it "going off" I have mixed coating on my bench that has been sitting for over 2 months. coated with it the other day and it is still perfect.

All users,
What seems to be missed is, that the 20 gms/100 mls Acetone is a guide for starting.
The idea is, that the the quantities, are a guide to what has been used OK as a mixture.
Adding, plus or minus a couple of grams, will not stop the product working and should not cause any one any alarm..
Some like it with a little more some like it with a little less.
It really should not matter, as it only affects the "cosmetic" appearances.
As advised many times, dont apply thick coatings, it is not required.

If a more dilute version is applied, you only are using more Acetone to spread same amount of coating over a lot more surfaces.

[Stephen Cohen]

I did some load development for the 458 WM today, wining load was 535gr cast three coats red copper, 44gr of 2207 or as you guys in States call it H4198 and sparked by CCI mag primer. This load delivered 4 shots in under an inch, the Range Officer who spotted for me was more excited than I was. Did not have chronograph I was just looking for a nice accurate load, would imagine velocity close to 1700 fps. I fired 35 shots all told and no leading at all. One of the local gun shop employees was telling me that this coating is only good for pistol loads, how wrong he was.

[btroj]

In Gateway Bullets instructions it states: " Mix 20 grams (2-3 tablespoons) of powdered coating to 100ml (3.5-4 ounces) of acetone." But you state 20 grams is 1 Tablespoon. What is correct? Is it OK to convert grams to grains and mix it precisely based on weight?

Be sure not to confuse a teaspoon with a tablespoon. Three teaspoons is one tablespoon. So 2 to 3 teaspoons would be approximately one tablespoon.

I would keep cooking a bit longer until you find the temp and time that works. Also remember that when you add a large mass of cold bullets to the oven the temp drops significantly and much energy goes into warming them to oven temp. I use a wire rack covered in 1/4 inch hardware cloth in a convection oven. I don't put any bullets on the last 1.5 inches to either side. I do this to allow better air flow throughout the oven so heating occurs more rapidly and more evenly.

I also have two rack, one is cooking while the other sits on top of the oven preheating with bullets.

You also might let them dry longer. Even though mine have felt dry at times the way they baked said otherwise. If their is even a hint of acetone under a dried outer shell it messes with the coating and the oven spends a bunch of time drying bullets, not heating them. I like to make sure they are totally dry, I tend to let em sit overnight or at least for a few hours. Even an hour sitting in the sun would help.

Getting complete curing ring isn't that tough, it just means you need to find what works in your oven. Smaller batches, longer time, hotter temp, something has to work. Keep playing with it.

[HI-TEK]

In Gateway Bullets instructions it states: " Mix 20 grams (2-3 tablespoons) of powdered coating to 100ml (3.5-4 ounces) of acetone." But you state 20 grams is 1 Tablespoon. What is correct? Is it OK to convert grams to grains and mix it precisely based on weight?

My reply; Thank you for your comments.
Work done here, a table spoon was used, and powder weighed approximately 20 grams mixed with 100 mls Acetone.
You are correct with your observations on Gateways instructions.
They state that it should be 20 grams to 100 mls of Acetone.
I am thinking, that instructions from Gateway is correct with weight/volume ratio, but may have possibly wanted to put teaspoon instead of tablespoon.
I think Gateway may clarify such detail, if asked.
I dont think that such instruction were deliberate, and may be just a mistake.

This weight/volume matter is not a life and death situation.
As advised previously, some folk like to use more powder per volume of Acetone, and others want to use less powder per volume of Acetone.
What ever user decides that works for them then it is all OK.
I really don't see a problem, as using more or less, done/handled correctly thereafter, should work OK.
The coating should not fail, because someone used 2 or 3 grams more or less, in same volume of solvent.


Q "Be sure not to confuse a teaspoon with a tablespoon. Three teaspoons is one tablespoon. So 2 to 3 teaspoons would be approximately one tablespoon."

My Reply;
I agree, and the weights should be checked with whatever spoon is used, so user knows how much plus or minus is used each time.

I would keep cooking a bit longer until you find the temp and time that works. Also remember that when you add a large mass of cold bullets to the oven the temp drops significantly and much energy goes into warming them to oven temp. I use a wire rack covered in 1/4 inch hardware cloth in a convection oven. I don't put any bullets on the last 1.5 inches to either side. I do this to allow better air flow throughout the oven so heating occurs more rapidly and more evenly.

I also have two rack, one is cooking while the other sits on top of the oven preheating with bullets.

You also might let them dry longer. Even though mine have felt dry at times the way they baked said otherwise. If their is even a hint of acetone under a dried outer shell it messes with the coating and the oven spends a bunch of time drying bullets, not heating them. I like to make sure they are totally dry, I tend to let em sit overnight or at least for a few hours. Even an hour sitting in the sun would help.

Getting complete curing ring isn't that tough, it just means you need to find what works in your oven. Smaller batches, longer time, hotter temp, something has to work. Keep playing with it.



My reply is included above...

[HATCH]

This process has many variables. You need to find what works best for you.
1 to 3 tablespoons to @1/4 cup of acetone.
What I have found is that the more powder you mix in, the shorter the drying time will be.
2 tablespoons to 1/4 cup (100ml) seems to work the best for me now

[Gateway Bullets]

20 Grams =0.706 oz, 0.706oz = 308.87gr






Thank ya sir!

Most online conversion programs work on fluid measurement and not dry weight. The best way to mix the powder is by WEIGHT! Get your powder scales out and actually weigh the powder before you use it. But my measurement stands, It is 2-3 TABLESPOONS. There are so many variables to measuring the powder. Is is loose, is it packed, is it mounded.... you get the point. When I weighed my powder per TABLESPOON, it weighed between 7.0 to 8.0 grams. So the 2-3 tablespoons will get you in the ball park as to what is needed. It is up to the individual to determine what works best for them.

[leadman]

atygrit, I think your bake time might be too short. Make sure the first application of the coating passes the wipe and smash test as it does no good to bake longer on the additional coats to get it to pass the tests. If the boolits do not pass the test stick them back in the oven for another baking. I usually water cool a boolit from the tray if using a new or different coating/boolit. If ok I take the tray out, if not continue to make and check in 5 minutes.
I have found the powdered & 1035 coatings can withstand a longer bake time without making the coating brittle. I bake until the Gold is just starting to darken and it seems to work well.

[Rompin Ruger]

NOt to confuse readers even more, but I was trying to figure out Tablespoons to ounces and the source I found said that there is NO standard World-wide UNIT of MEASURE for Tablespoons...they differ from one's bought in USA, to England and again to Australia! FWIW...

I don't have the exact differences.

I'm almost GLAD I have the liquid. I did the 5-7-1 ratio and did it measuring with 1/2 Tablespoons...gave me a good bit... enough to coat two batches (102 each) of the big 45-270gr boolits... 2 coats! I still have some left I figured would need to be thrown out next time I get around to coating. I don't shoot like you guys who do large quantities.

[btroj]

Thanks Gateway.

Guys, think this thru. We all have a powder scale, don't we? Use whatever you want to measure the powder then weigh it. Find out the volume it takes to get 308 gr then you have your answer.

it ain't rocket science, just basic measuring, conversions, and thinking.

[Ausglock]

Yep. the $5 digi scales on eBay are well worth it.

Some of the DRY-TEK powders have different density to others, so working on weight rather than volume is the go.

[btroj]

And 100 ml will weigh 79g, roughly. That is roughly 1220 gr.

amazing what a conversion table can tell you

[atygrit]

111360

This is Black 1035 baked for 15 minutes at 375 with 1cc per pound and failing the wipe test. I don't really see a difference in the coating from when I baked at a higher temperature. Someone asked if i was using good acetone, and it is a new bottle I purchased from Home Depot.

The coating isn't slick like the liquid (I couldn't get to work either) it is kind of chaulky feeling, not slick. I'm not sure if that is supposed to be that way, but I'm guessing it isn't.

What is aggravating about all of this is other people are getting this to work so easily and I'm running out of bullets to coat before I have to cast more.

[HI-TEK]

111360

This is Black 1035 baked for 15 minutes at 375 with 1cc per pound and failing the wipe test. I don't really see a difference in the coating from when I baked at a higher temperature. Someone asked if i was using good acetone, and it is a new bottle I purchased from Home Depot.

The coating isn't slick like the liquid (I couldn't get to work either) it is kind of chaulky feeling, not slick. I'm not sure if that is supposed to be that way, but I'm guessing it isn't.

What is aggravating about all of this is other people are getting this to work so easily and I'm running out of bullets to coat before I have to cast more.

Atygrit
My initial suggestion is, take some from previous batch, turn up your oven to 390F, and when oven is at set 390F, cook these for another 10 minutes, and do a comparison.
There is no difference between powdered version and solvent versions.
The ingredients are same.
If it is removable with solvent, you did not "set" or Cure the coating at all.
Simply wash off first coat with solvent, dry, and recoat.
If coatings is not bonded or set, it can be simply washed off with solvent.
You dont need to re-melt.
Repeat coating , drying and bake, this time at 390F for 10 minutes.

[Gremlin460]

111360

This is Black 1035 baked for 15 minutes at 375 with 1cc per pound and failing the wipe test. I don't really see a difference in the coating from when I baked at a higher temperature. Someone asked if i was using good acetone, and it is a new bottle I purchased from Home Depot.

The coating isn't slick like the liquid (I couldn't get to work either) it is kind of chaulky feeling, not slick. I'm not sure if that is supposed to be that way, but I'm guessing it isn't.

What is aggravating about all of this is other people are getting this to work so easily and I'm running out of bullets to coat before I have to cast more.

Please don't dispare!!, I coated literally hundereds at the beginning and they ALL failed, fouled the barrel, all kinds of hell. Little by little I modified my methology and within a few days I hit on a system that worked, and has worked ever since.
It can be frustrating, most of us have BTDT... IT does work, it just takes a little time to train yourself.

Some people like Ausglock can meter out coating by eye and hit the target every time, but he has done this a LOT, and he's a freak as well.. I measure exact when I coat, using syringes, I can't do what Trev does, but my way works for me and I shoot 200-300 every weekend. One day I will make a short video on how I do it, which probably is good for new guys, then you can drift over to the way Trev does it once comfortable with what your doing. The wife now has a brand new S&W 1911 from the performance section, so now I HAVE to be sure everything works or she will be hunting me!!

[Ausglock]

Metering by eye....... Yep. that is it.
Coated and baked 2500 tonight and not a measuring cup in sight. one second dribble and all is good.
Oven at 200deg C. Timer dial set at 10, 11 or 11.5 or 10.5 or 9.5 (somewhere around 10 minutes anyway) and all good.
Easy as.

[Mike Malat]

Based on the feedback from my earlier posts went ahead and bought a thermometer and found out that at the temp setting I was using was actually about 100F over temp. I tried setting it lower but the temp would not stabilize . (temp swings of over +-140F). So until my new toaster oven comes in, my coating is on hold. Decided to go with the Oster Convection oven. Model TSTTVMNDG.

[atygrit]

Atygrit
My initial suggestion is, take some from previous batch, turn up your oven to 390F, and when oven is at set 390F, cook these for another 10 minutes, and do a comparison.
There is no difference between powdered version and solvent versions.
The ingredients are same.
If it is removable with solvent, you did not "set" or Cure the coating at all.
Simply wash off first coat with solvent, dry, and recoat.
If coatings is not bonded or set, it can be simply washed off with solvent.
You dont need to re-melt.
Repeat coating , drying and bake, this time at 390F for 10 minutes.


All of the coating doesn't come off when I do the wipe test, just some of it. So I don't think I could "wash" them and have clean bullets to recoat.

[Moonman]

Maybe you could still bake them a bit longer?

Love Life even shot some that didn't fully pass the tests and they worked for him,

MAYBE he'll chime in about this.

Don't give up yet?

[btroj]

Take a few from the batches that show color when tested. Re cook these at higher temps for 10 minutes or 11 minutes. Experiment until you find what it takes for your set up to give a pass on the wipe test.

Test small batches, maybe 10 bullets or so. You already have them coated, just re cook and experiment.

I bake at a full 400 F, which is actually 425 on the oven dial, for 10 to 12 minutes depending on bullet weight. Heavier bullet bake longer. I use an oven thermometer to guage temp, the dial was way off.

[Gateway Bullets]

Metering by eye....... Yep. that is it.
Coated and baked 2500 tonight and not a measuring cup in sight. one second dribble and all is good.
Oven at 200deg C. Timer dial set at 10, 11 or 11.5 or 10.5 or 9.5 (somewhere around 10 minutes anyway) and all good.
Easy as.

You crack me up with your scientific measurements!

[btroj]

I use spoons when I mix, just a squirt when applying to bullets. Mark I eyeball works well for me. I add bullets til it looks right, give em a squirt, and tumble.

it isn't rocket science but does require an ability to see what is happening and adjust on the fly.

The commercial guys measure more precisely, I totally get that. They need a very repeatable product. I don't sell mine so I make em good enough for me!

[leadman]

atygrit, it takes a bit for the oven to get up to temperature so try what I do sometimes. Cook the ones that wipe off and after 10 minutes (or whatever) pull one off the tray and water cool it and try the wipe test. If it passes they are cooked enough, if not try another in a few more minutes to see if this is long enough.
I know when I was cooking in the winter and temps were down around 50 to 60 degrees I had to run the time for the larger boolits up to 20 minutes. Even a wind on the oven can change how long the boolits have to cook.
This is when I went to the Walmart DVOM with thermocouple to track the temperatures. Found I had to close off the vents in one oven with a piece of steel so it would get hot enough.
If you wash them and there is baked on coating left it should not hurt anything. Remember we do apply multiple coats to the same boolits.
If we can work it out I am willing to guide you by phone thru the process. PM me if this is something you want to do.

[Stephen Cohen]

+1 On the water cool, that is what I did till I got a few batches done and was confident. They say great minds think alike.

[atygrit]

atygrit, it takes a bit for the oven to get up to temperature so try what I do sometimes. Cook the ones that wipe off and after 10 minutes (or whatever) pull one off the tray and water cool it and try the wipe test. If it passes they are cooked enough, if not try another in a few more minutes to see if this is long enough.
I know when I was cooking in the winter and temps were down around 50 to 60 degrees I had to run the time for the larger boolits up to 20 minutes. Even a wind on the oven can change how long the boolits have to cook.
This is when I went to the Walmart DVOM with thermocouple to track the temperatures. Found I had to close off the vents in one oven with a piece of steel so it would get hot enough.
If you wash them and there is baked on coating left it should not hurt anything. Remember we do apply multiple coats to the same boolits.
If we can work it out I am willing to guide you by phone thru the process. PM me if this is something you want to do.

Thank you very much for the offer.

What I'm doing is what i should have done a long time ago, which is bake for 10 minutes, then 11, 12, etc. all the while doing the wipe tests. Last night I started over and was able to see a difference between 10 and 11 minutes bake time. They both failed, but I saw an improvement. :smile:

[Balta]

I shared some pics of my first attempt at cooking up some gold large caliber (.45 colt 270 gr boolits) the other week. I finally got out to shoot them.

I had DougGuy here hone out my cylinders on my 45 colt Ruger NMBH's (blue and a SS longer (7.5") bbl hunter.

here are my targets at 25 yards for the SS 7.5" with a sandbag and low power aiming device for my old eyes!

I had a relatively clean barrel. Slight leading nearer the muzzle and that gun, leaded like a printing press in days bygone before Doug's work, so Doug's reaming did it some good, and the coating did it's job!

Boolit is the RCBS 45-270-SAA modified keith, pushed by 19, 19.5, 20.0 & 20.5 for the below targets. That NMBH thumps my middle finger big knuckle and after I'd shot two test runs of 5, it was SORE and my groups really opened up on the far top right target...

I quit and shot .38 and .357's for a while... some 45acp out of the convertable 45's other cylinder and then shot the hottest of the group, the 20.5 and they were right back on line... so 20.0 was shooter error from being pounded!

I loaded up another 68 of them to do some off-hand hunting practice for an upcoming hog hunt.

111248

My attempts--

111249

2nd bake at top and 1st bake/coat on lower tray!

I think I'm going to love this stuff!

Overcocked gold looks more like Copper! I like it...

[Ausglock]

Thank you very much for the offer.

What I'm doing is what i should have done a long time ago, which is bake for 10 minutes, then 11, 12, etc. all the while doing the wipe tests. Last night I started over and was able to see a difference between 10 and 11 minutes bake time. They both failed, but I saw an improvement. :smile:

Just to clarify... you are letting your oven pre-heat to 200deg C and start cycling on the thermostat before placing the tray of bullets into the now hot oven???

[atygrit]

111575111576111577111578111579111580

Here is my setup showing 400 degrees and 5 pictures of the wipe test from 10 minutes to 14 minutes. I did this over two nights, so the 10 and 11 minute tests dried for 6 hours and the 12, 13, and 14 minute tests were able to dry 24 hours. I don't see a lot of difference between the 5 wipe tests. I will say the bullets still had plenty of color left on them, it isn't like I was able to wipe off all of the coating to bare lead.

Also, the coating is not very slick feeling, more like a matte or flat paint texture. This is the powdered black 1035, is it suppose to be like that?

Can someone post good pictures of what the black 1035 is supposed to look like.

Thanks,

[atygrit]

Just to clarify... you are letting your oven pre-heat to 200deg C and start cycling on the thermostat before placing the tray of bullets into the now hot oven???

Yes, I let the oven preheat to 400deg F.

[Balta]

111575111576111577111578111579111580

Here is my setup showing 400 degrees and 5 pictures of the wipe test from 10 minutes to 14 minutes. I did this over two nights, so the 10 and 11 minute tests dried for 6 hours and the 12, 13, and 14 minute tests were able to dry 24 hours. I don't see a lot of difference between the 5 wipe tests. I will say the bullets still had plenty of color left on them, it isn't like I was able to wipe off all of the coating to bare lead.

Also, the coating is not very slick feeling, more like a matte or flat paint texture. This is the powdered black 1035, is it suppose to be like that?

Can someone post good pictures of what the black 1035 is supposed to look like.

Thanks,

Have same problem also with black powder and i increase temp to 450 F, assuming that my termostat dont show corect temp and it worked, i pass the wipe test

[HATCH]

I do the 1035 black and cook at 375. But its a convection oven.

[atygrit]

My oven is also a convection.

[leadman]

I drilled a hole in the back wall of 2 of my ovens so the thermocouple is just above the boolits. Seems to work better in this location.
If the probe is too close to the element the temp could be affected.
Make sure the coating is well dried before placing in the oven. I usually let the coating air cool for 10 or 15 minutes then set the tray on top of the oven for 5 to 10 minutes before placing them inside to cook. I usually do several thousand at a time with 3 ovens so easy for me to do this.
Other than this it might come down to your acetone. I buy mine at home Depot and have not had any problems.

[Mike Malat]

A quick update. Sent the boolits that I coated with Red Copper last weekend down range today. 125gr lee RN's COWW Sized .359 Averaged 2000fps out of a Rossi M92 357mag. No leading but more of a pattern than a group @ 100yds. So the coating held and did what it was supposed to do up but I need to work on the load.

[HI-TEK]

A quick update. Sent the boolits that I coated with Red Copper last weekend down range today. 125gr lee RN's COWW Sized .358 Averaged 2000fps out of a Rossi M92 357mag. No leading but more of a pattern than a group @ 100yds. So the coating held and did what it was supposed to do up but I need to work on the load.


Mike
Thanks for posting your results.
2000ft/sec is not bad at all. Was there any residues in the barrel?
Can you please advise, what powder and loads you used.
Did you manage to do a hardness on your alloy?
What sort of spread did you get with the target at 100 yards?

I have heard previously that some guys are adding about 2% Tin to the COWW.
I don't know how that had improved/changed properties, but accuracy/spread of that mix seemed OK.

Local casters have told me that by adding the Tin, seems to allow much better and more even weight and cast flows with automated machines.
I don't know if adding Tin to alloys, has any benefits to hand casters as well.
Please keep on posting your findings.
Thanks much.

[Ausglock]

Alloy is too soft for that velocity.

[Mike Malat]

Load Details.
PMC Brass
18gr WW-296 CCI 550 primers. COL 1.590
Lee 358-125-RF COWW +2% Tin Air Cooled @ .359. BHN not measured but guessing 12
Crimped using Lee 357 collet crimper @ 1/2 turn.
Group Size (if you can call it that) Around 18". Like I said more of a pattern. :-) . Using other loads I've been able to get 3" groups with the rifle but that was 158gr at 38 spl+p velocities. So we're comparing apples n oranges.

Firearm Rossi M92 24" BBL. Skinner peep sights. Groove ~ .3575.

Crono 10' from muzzle, 2055, 2001, 2050, 2004, 1928, 2070, 2011, 1899, 1931

Only a bit of unburnt powder observed in the barrel. I did not notice any coating residue. Barrel cleaned up with solvent and patch. Again no coating residue observed, just carbon from the powder.

I knew that I was pushing the boolit however I was curious how fast I could push it and not get leading. In that respect my question was answered. .. Fast enough for me. :bigsmyl2:

I'll go ahead and heat/water quench the remaining batch of 125's to get them a bit harder and see what that does to the groups.

[HI-TEK]

Load Details.
PMC Brass
18gr WW-296 CCI 550 primers. COL 1.590
Lee 358-125-RF COWW +2% Tin Air Cooled @ .359. BHN not measured but guessing 12
Crimped using Lee 357 collet crimper @ 1/2 turn.
Group Size (if you can call it that) Around 18". Like I said more of a pattern. :-) . Using other loads I've been able to get 3" groups with the rifle but that was 158gr at 38 spl+p velocities. So we're comparing apples n oranges.

Firearm Rossi M92 24" BBL. Skinner peep sights. Groove ~ .3575.

Crono 10' from muzzle, 2055, 2001, 2050, 2004, 1928, 2070, 2011, 1899, 1931

Only a bit of unburnt powder observed in the barrel. I did not notice any coating residue. Barrel cleaned up with solvent and patch. Again no coating residue observed, just carbon from the powder.

I knew that I was pushing the boolit however I was curious how fast I could push it and not get leading. In that respect my question was answered. .. Fast enough for me. :bigsmyl2:

I'll go ahead and heat/water quench the remaining batch of 125's to get them a bit harder and see what that does to the groups.




Mike,
Thank much for your details. Much appreciated.
Interesting results.
Please advise, as you can, with your alloy hardness experimentation and see if it makes any difference with spread, if you use same powder loads.

[Stephen Cohen]

Mike, I have both the Lee 125 and 158 RF, I think you may find the 158 better suited the your Rossi. I have a friend who is testing some of my coated cast in his Rossi and the 158 has more promise. If my gunsmith ever gets my 357 max finished I will be able to run my own tests.

[SpotHound]

Is Bunnings "Diggers" brand acetone OK?

[Ausglock]

Is Bunnings "Diggers" brand acetone OK?

Yes. That is what I use.

[HI-TEK]

Is Bunnings "Diggers" brand acetone OK?

Should be OK but very expensive.
I would hunt around for a fiberglass pool manufacturer that is close to you, and they use large volume of Acetone or MEK and I am sure that they will decant some at much lower price, (take a bottle or clean new cheap Fuel Can with you.

[Mike Malat]

@Stephen - I have the 158RF mould as well, Unfortunately I have a coffee can full of them all coated in LLA. So I need to cast up a batch before Hi-Tec'ing them. My new convection oven arrived yesterday and I have a few lbs of uncoated boolits in .35 and .45 cals I'll be baking here shortly.

[HATCH]

For those wondering if my coating method worked...
just got this email from my dad. The boolit in question is a accurate molds 240e sized .309 with a lee sizer (it's on the money at .309). Coated twice using 1035 black. 1 tb spoon to 100ml.


Rifle picked up from Carolina Rod & Gun.Terry and Carol (my dad's gunsmiths) were impressed with ammo. It shoots as good as it looks.


3 shots to adjust scope
At 100 yards
next 3 shots - triangle with holes 1" apart within 0.80" circle
next 3 shots - horizontal line 0.75" in length within 0.38" circle
Better than 1 minute of angle - Impressive
At 15 yards (indoor range max)
next 3 shots - horizontal line 0.65 " in length - bullets overlapping within 0.33" circle
Point of Impact for 100 & 15 yards are almost on top of each other.

this was subsonic @1078 fps using 10.4 grains aa1680

And for those wonderings about fouling

Rifle bore cleaned with JB paste to check for fouling / leading, chamber cleaned. Nothing found.

my dad had his gunsmith site in the rifle and clean it.

i am gonna coat 100% of all future castings and my star sizer will be just a sizer... Not a size and lube.

[Moonman]

Missouri Bullets is now offering HI-TEK coated projectiles.

SNS Casting, LNL Casting, BBI, also offer the coated projectiles.

Gateway Bullets and Bayou Bullets offer the finished projectiles or product to coat your own.

Gateway recently received from Australia and has for sale

THE NEW HI-TEK DRY POWDER MIXES, this reduces the COLOR/CATALYST/ACETONE ratio mistakes.

The dry powder has color/catalyst already mixed in dry form, you just add Acetone and shake/shake/shake.

[Stephen Cohen]

Mike, my new 358 460gr mould arrived today, two hrs later I had a batch in the oven, its addictive.

[Beetmagnet]

I have used the ES powder coating method now to coat nearly 10,000 bullets for 9mm, 45, 40, 357, and 300blk. I have perfected my pistol boolit method and am very happy with this system.
I don't need this Hi-tek coating, but I love to tinker and a 188 page thread has my curiosity up. I have ordered the copper red coating from Gateway, and will give this a go. Hopefully I can get some real good objective comparisons between the two different methods.
Wish me luck.

[Ausglock]

Beetmagnet. go with what works for you. I tried the PC and it was too messy/slow/limited quantity.

HI-TEK works for what I want in a coating. easy to mix/ high quantity/ quality coating/ accurate results.
I don't shoot cast in rifles. Only jacketed.

[Moonman]

Beetmagnet,

We're having this conversation on another forum also.

HI-TEK works, Traditional Powder Coating works, use what's best for you.

People are DUMPING waxy or Alox type lubing, even STAR SIZERS

people ARE NOW ONLY USING THEM TO SIZE.

Speeds with handguns and many rifle loads DO NOT NEED GAS CHECKS ANYMORE.

Jacketed Projectiles WILL ALWAYS HAVE THEIR PLACE.

PLATED PROJECTILES may be a fading thing going into the history books.

Polymers are and will continue to be CHEAPER than COPPER for the use.

[DrBill33]

An excellent Manual. Mr Gateway. It is so good, that only a minimum of change is required to use it with the "wet" process ... utilizing the 2 different catalysts.

Thanks!

[HATCH]

Beetmagnet, hi-tek is not as messy as PC is. I have tried it all. The easiest method was epoxy spray paint. Nothing to mix up. Just stand the boolits up and spray them. Then bake.
I am not saying hitek is the best method out there cause no one can say that. I can say that for ME it is the best method.

[Michael J. Spangler]

still getting leading in my 40 cal even with hi-tek.
the last half of the barrel leads up pretty bad.
no issues with the 9mm, 38/357,45 cap
cast 50/50 pure lead and wheel weights.
i'll try to snag some out of the berm next time i bring it to the range to see if i get any idea of whats going on

[Ausglock]

I found that my 40cal pills need 16bhn hardness to not lead. Sized. 401 for a Glock 35.

[Michael J. Spangler]

i'll try some harder boolits next time

i have some leading in my marlin 45-70 too. though i did shoot a handful of non coated boolits last weekend and haven't checked the bore on that thing in a long time (it doesn't get much use)
i'll give it a nice cleaning and try again. with the loads i was running i suspect i might need water dropped wheel weights in that gun also.
54 grains of varget under a lee 405 RNFP. can't wait to load some thumpers for this gun. it's not going to to sit around collecting dust now that i picked up a mold for it.

[leadman]

Michael, you definitely need a harder alloy. I have been heat treating the boolits before coating, then water quenching after the last coat. I have exceeded jacketed velocity in the 223 Rem and duplicated the jacketed velocities in the 30-06.
The 40 seems to be particular about what the load consists of.

[Beetmagnet]

Beetmagnet, hi-tek is not as messy as PC is. I have tried it all. The easiest method was epoxy spray paint. Nothing to mix up. Just stand the boolits up and spray them. Then bake.
I am not saying hitek is the best method out there cause no one can say that. I can say that for ME it is the best method.

I agree with you statement. The PC works for me. But deep down inside I must indulge my need to tinker; therefore bring on the Hi-Tek.

[Moonman]

Beetmagnet,

Gateway Bullets has the NEW HI-TEK Dry Powder mix it's easier to mix up than the original
Color and Catalyst then you add Acetone.

The dry mix has color and catalyst already mixed and you add Acetone.

Somebody talked to Donnie at Bayou Bullets today and Donnie told them

to call Gateway as BAYOU has a VERY Large shipment of the dry mixes that have not

yet been shipped from Australia or not arrived in the USA as of yet.

[Redwoode]

I've just finished second coating of liquid gold on a couple hundred Lee 356-102-1R for 380acp. Using some pointers from Gremlin460 and everything turned out perfect. They cast a fat 358 and I sized to 356. First sizing took all the hi-tek off to bare lead in several spots. One cavity may be a bit out of round. Regardless, I just did the second coating as normal after drying. I was surprised all I checked that were to bare lead after first sizing passed wipe and crush tests 100%. I've read not to apply coating to bare, sized bullets because it won't stick. I'm pleased to say this did. Comments?

PS: thanks for the pointers Mike (Gremlin460)

[Ausglock]

If the coating came off during sizing, It was not applied correctly.
Of the tens of thousands I have coated and sized, there has never been coating coming off during sizing.

[Redwoode]

I think I screwed up some casts by cutting sprues way too fast. First sizing actually turned a wire edge past the plain base sized nose down. Looked like coating was cut off with a sharp knife in those areas. Just happened with little Lee 2 cav die. An equal amount from MP and Hardline 4 cavs sized normally. Waited much longer for sprues to harden. I'll do more with Lee tomorrow at sensible pace. I'm just learning this casting bit too.

[Ausglock]

No worries. Get a good Micrometer and check the cast size and the bullet size after running through the sizer die.

[HATCH]

I am not a expert but I put a little lube on the coated boolits before sizing. Makes it easier and just polishes the coating when sized.

[Redwoode]

Thanks for the suggestion but couldn't that interfere with second coat of hi-tek adhesion?

[HATCH]

I coat twice then size

[HATCH]

If you are worried about being way over size then size before coating. Coat twice then size again

[Redwoode]

That's what I thought too awhile back but the other hi-tek thread below says: "any sizing before the first coat is applied interferes with adhesion." Seems it burnishes the lead not leaving much for the coating to bond to.

[HATCH]

I am not sure on that as I size after fully coating (two coats)

[Avenger442]

I've just finished second coating of liquid gold on a couple hundred Lee 356-102-1R for 380acp. Using some pointers from Gremlin460 and everything turned out perfect. They cast a fat 358 and I sized to 356. First sizing took all the hi-tek off to bare lead in several spots. One cavity may be a bit out of round. Regardless, I just did the second coating as normal after drying. I was surprised all I checked that were to bare lead after first sizing passed wipe and crush tests 100%. I've read not to apply coating to bare, sized bullets because it won't stick. I'm pleased to say this did. Comments?

PS: thanks for the pointers Mike (Gremlin460)

I have also had this experience. I have a Lee 6 cavity 452-228 1R that cast some bullets that when they are sized appear to be out of round. Sizer will strip coating from only one side. They will be hard to push through the sizer. The rest of the bullets coming out of the sizing easy and as I want them, just having the coating polished by the sizer. After coating, mine also passed wipe and smash tests. I have had to clean lead from the joining surfaces on this mold. Probably my poor casting technique letting it get too hot during casting.

[Ausglock]

Do not size before coating. It will not stick.

[Avenger442]

I believe that I remember reading somewhere in these 3700+ post that the coating will not make up for faulty casting. Based on this idea, if the bullet has a significant surface defect it makes sense sizing will peel the coating off of that defect. If the bullet alloy will not take the pressure of the load when you fire it, the coating will not make up for it (it may give you an edge when the alloy is borderline). It's not a jacket. So it makes sense excessive pressure while sizing will peel the coating.

What do you think about the above?

[HI-TEK]

I believe that I remember reading somewhere in these 3700+ post that the coating will not make up for faulty casting. Based on this idea, if the bullet has a significant surface defect it makes sense sizing will peel the coating off of that defect. If the bullet alloy will not take the pressure of the load when you fire it, the coating will not make up for it (it may give you an edge when the alloy is borderline). It's not a jacket. So it makes sense excessive pressure while sizing will peel the coating.

What do you think about the above?

Avenger442,
What you may be finding that coating is actually is being "shaved off with the Lead" with irregular surfaces.
After sizing, if you have coating stuck onto majority of other areas, then re-coating a second time should work, and this should cover areas where coating/Lead has been shaved off.
I have a few people who size after first coat, simply to remove webbing and other irregularities, then they re-coat a second time.
They are finding that this works for them, and, depending on final sized diameter being required, it may be possible not having to again re-size after second coat.
Most important, if sizing after first coat, do not use any lubes aside from 500+ or 5000 types, as you will have problems with subsequent coatings then not bonding.

[HI-TEK]

I am not a expert but I put a little lube on the coated boolits before sizing. Makes it easier and just polishes the coating when sized.

If you are having sizing problems, after coating twice, depending on alloy being used, or require large reductions in diameter, and, specifically with harder alloy types, you will greatly benefit using the 5000 dry lube which can be applied prior to sizing.
Alternatively, if you need to have additional sizing loads pressures reduced, then simply use coatings catalysed with 2-Extreme catalyst instead of using standard catalyst.
This will significantly reduce loads required to size, and coatings should polish to a smooth glossy finish.
Just contact your supplier and discuss your requirements.

[Gremlin460]

My methology...

cast with either a 4 cav MiHec mold or a Leee 6 Cav .
I pot and ladle pour.
put 1000 in a square plastic container and tumble for 4 to 5 mins max.
coat and allow to dry for a minimum of 2 hours.
cook in weighed out batches of 200 @ 203c for 10.5 mins
All pills are sized to 358.
They are recoated in batches of 200 @ 5ml (Bronze or Gold Metalic)
Again dry a minimum of 2 hours.
Re-cooked @ 203c for 10.5 Mins.
Stored in batches of 1500.
Before loading I resize to 358 for my Beretta or 356 of the S&W 1911 Pro.

no leading in either.

As a side note, I have torn my oven to pieces (old house oven). I removed the element from the grill and fitted it into the bottom of the main cook area. I am awaiting delivery of a PID this week to finnish of the wiring.
Why?, because after reading this thread from the beginning it is painfully obvious that although we all use 200 +/- temp each of out ovens are basically different. Some use toaster ovens, some new breville's , they ALL make 200c. But the issue seems to come in on the time taken to reach 200, the recovery curve from cold tray insertion back to required temp.
I have a lot of notes on the temp curves prior to this project, and after it is done I will continue to collect data and post it here (probably start a separate thread).
The "put bricks/pavers/whatever in the oven as heat stabalizers" worked well for me. I am hoping that boosting temp recovery time will also be of assistance.

[Redwoode]

What's the purpose of putting 1000 in a square container and tumbling for four or five minutes please?

[Ausglock]

What's the purpose of putting 1000 in a square container and tumbling for four or five minutes please?
Knocks the dags off them. especially the flat base.

[Gremlin460]

As Trev said, it knocks any flashing off the flat bases, I sometimes get maybe 1/4 teaspoon of lead "flakes" in the bottom. It does no harm to the casts, even hollow points that I have tumbled.

[Stephen Cohen]

So you use a square bottle, that makes sense. what size bottle do you use and I gather you have it set up as a motorized tumbler.

[Gremlin460]

So you use a square bottle, that makes sense. what size bottle do you use and I gather you have it set up as a motorized tumbler.

http://s881.photobucket.com/user/Gremlin460/media/MOV_0002_zpsb351a959.mp4.html?sort=3&o=0

[Redwoode]

I love this place. So much knowledge and experience shared.

[Stephen Cohen]

Brilliant and thanks Gremlin. I gave a wood lath away 3 months ago it could have been converted. But now I see how I will cobble something up.

[HATCH]

That seems like a lot of work.
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/08/04/eqyhuzuj.jpg

Cast them Friday afternoon using the automated master caster (600 per hr).
Coated them twice yesterday.
Sized them this morning on the automated star (1.4 secs a boolit)

Figure about 2k or more 38 158 grain

[Redwoode]

I do have a mid-size Rockwell wood lathe to dust off and rig for tumbling. Also a Thumbler B for brass cleaning with pins. Wonder how it would do loaded with lead only no pins?

[Gremlin460]

I do have a mid-size Rockwell wood lathe to dust off and rig for tumbling. Also a Thumbler B for brass cleaning with pins. Wonder how it would do loaded with lead only no pins?

Around the 50 Rpm is good for both wet tumbling Brass and for cast tumbling.... not sure if wood lathes turn that slow with out mods.

Edit note:
I find that i get better results tumbling a large qty of casts as opposed to say 200. I think the drop distance is less with more casts and the force of friction is higher as there is more weight as they tumble. As mentioned it dosent take long, 3-4 mins but I end up with nicer product at the end.

[Dystaxia]

Here's what I use:

112548112549112550

So, it's a coffee can that I reinforced with some sheet metal (left over from a project involving the a/c in the kitchen - lowes/home depot, couple of bucks.) and some grip tape for some traction. I just throw it on my stainless steel tumbler and let them rip. As for the hole in the lid, I use that to inject the Hi-Tek mixture in it when I'm coating. Since the acetone is evaporating, it will blow the lid off, so the hole there is for venting. I actually let them go for 2-3 minutes, and they get a really even coat since it slows down the evaporation rate. I still take the top off and swirl for about 15-30 seconds to let the acetone finish evaporating. I get really nice and even coats, plus, it knocks off all the flashings at the same time. That particular coffee brand container is great, it has built in agitators (why I used it).

[Gremlin460]

. I get really nice and even coats, plus, it knocks off all the flashings at the same time. That particular coffee brand container is great, it has built in agitators (why I used it).

Nice system!, do you have any problems with the small flashings sticking to the casts? My flashings left after tumbling is just like large metal flake. Just wondering if it adhears to the casts while coating?

[HATCH]

Dystaxia, thanks for the idea. Gonna rig up something this week

[Love Life]

WST also likes to eat my powder measure.

[Moonman]

Love Life,

Put a CLEAR SHEET PROTECTOR inside your powder measure to
protect the tube from chemical reactions.

Missed ya, Just read your post about where you've been.

MOONMAN

[Love Life]

Thanks for the welcome back Moonman.

I just noticed that Missouri Bullet Company is using HI-TEK Supercoat. Suck it PC!!!

[Moonman]

Love Life, BBI and a caster in Ohio LNL Casting have also switched to HI-TEK coatings.

DEMAND is driving their switch to HI-TEK over the WAXY type lubes.

[Avenger442]

I'm looking at PC after I finish my development with HT loads. Are there any suppliers of bullets for 308 and 44 magnum that sell PC?

Having good results with 1600 to 1800 fps and HT gold 1035 in the 308 so I've decided to up the fps until I have a problem. Going to go from 27 gr. AA 5744 to 30 gr. in one grain steps. Also going to load some slower powders IMR 4064, H 4895 and H 1000 per leadman's suggestion. Be a few weeks before I can go to range. Vacation (or Holiday if you are in Au.) with wife and other things eating up my hobby time.:bigsmyl2:

Went back to the 45s I coated and was having sizing problem. Upon further and more extensive examination my coating procedure may be at fault. I smash tested about four more and found that, on some, the coating was flaking off. Not all of them just part of two batches I coated?? I put both batches in one container. I shortened my dry time from over night to about 30 min. Can the acetone not drying long enough cause the coating not to stick? I see where it can make it bubble up. Guess I'm remelting all 260 of them.:sad:

[Love Life]

I've shot some flaking boolits (flaked when smashed) with no degraded performance or leading in my pistols.

[HATCH]

Can the acetone not drying long enough cause the coating not to stick? I see where it can make it bubble up. Guess I'm remelting all 260 of them.:sad:

Acetone is one of the fastest drying solvents out there.
Basically if you do a standard coating, the acetone will be gone in 15 mins after they are laid out on the drying table.
If you put on a really thick coat then you might need a hour to make sure its totally dry.

Bubbling occurs because the acetone is still present on the boolit when baked.

You can try to re-coat those boolits.
Acetone will dissolve any lose coating when you re-coat.

[HI-TEK]

Acetone is one of the fastest drying solvents out there.
Basically if you do a standard coating, the acetone will be gone in 15 mins after they are laid out on the drying table.
If you put on a really thick coat then you might need a hour to make sure its totally dry.

Bubbling occurs because the acetone is still present on the boolit when baked.

You can try to re-coat those boolits.
Acetone will dissolve any lose coating when you re-coat.

For all to consider, I will describe a peculiar experience I had recently in respect to coating drying matters.
I had a bottle, that had a pinhole. Some of the coating leaked onto a concrete floor, and formed a pancake about 6 inch diameter about 1/8 of an inch to 3/16th inch thick.
Upon finding the leaking bottle, I decanted the contents into another bottle, and my thoughts were to allow spill to dry, and then pick it up later as a solid, without it spreading spill out further.

It has been over a month, and the "pancake" has a dry skin, and can be handled, but internally, it is a very viscous liquid.
I can peel up the drying film, and the external skin feels dry, and allows me to pick up this mess and move it around, but then because of the internal content being still fluid enough, it starts to sag when I lift it.

Sorry for the long explanations, but I just wanted to share with all, that despite fast drying solvents being used, if you have a thick coating, the external "skin" formed will reduce drying rate very significantly.

Even in open air situation, and over a long period, such a thick coating seems not to dry well at all, and the dry skin formed, feels dry to the touch, but below, coating may still not be completely dry.
This is now suspected as main cause of some adhesion failures that had been experienced by some, that seem to have no other explanation for failures occurring..

From all previous experiences, we have learnt at least a few things,
1. Apply very thin coatings, and dry well before baking.
2. Thick coatings without adequate drying will cause failures.
Another lesson learnt is, that two or three very thin films work best, and cover alloy much better and provide best results and you actually use less coating and get far less failures..
Hope this helps all.

[Love Life]

Bubbled bullets shoot as well as flaking and properly coated/cured bullets.

[HI-TEK]

Bubbled bullets shoot as well as flaking and properly coated/cured bullets.


You are right, as it seems, that if the bullet coatings allow majority of solvent to evaporate with heating, the minute bubbles that are trapped in cured film will not affect metal separation during shooting.
It seems to just be like a honeycomb coating that stay put.

[Love Life]

Correct. HI-Tek is much more capable and resilient than people would believe. Yes, pretty boolits shoot 25% better (<---that statement is not based on facts or any kind of real testing), but even the not so good looking bullets do fine.

One batch I over cooked and got flaking. You could see HT flakes on the press during the loading process. I shot them all and accuracy was the same and no leading was encountered...in the 10mm at full snort.

HI-TEK is truly the bomb for my pistol applications. I wish someone like CBRick would test some in his competition pistols at distance as I do not have the test bed to do real good long range (75 yds and beyond) with my current pistols as they really aren't designed for longer range shooting.

I will say that with my 38 special, 9mm, 45, and 10mm that 50 yd performance is the same or better than what I got with traditional lubes on the pie plates and steel targets.

As I said before, if HT sucked then I would have said so already and wouldn't be using it.

[HATCH]

My dad can shoot 3 shots into a nickle with coated 300 bo. No leading. And those were the 'dark looking' ones

[Moonman]

Geez, You gotta love it, no leading in a 10 MM at FULL SNORT![smilie=l:

I like it.:bigsmyl2:

[Avenger442]

Understand guys, I'm not talking small flakes but large flakes down to bare lead on the sides after smash. What I'm more irritated about is that I put two batches in one container before I discovered the flaking. It looks like one batch may be OK and the other didn't stick. Probably will load and shoot some in the Ruger 45 ACP or maybe the 45 Colt just to see if I have a problem. But, will not be able to relate it to the flaking because of the above.

In any case, no one answered my previous question. Are there any bullet suppliers selling PCed bullets in 44 mag or 308? Would like to run some accuracy test Hi-Tek against the PC but like using the Hi-Tek too much to set up for PC right now.

[Ausglock]

G'day All.
I shot a 2 day level 2 IPSC match this weekend.
95% of competitors were using Hi-TEK coated bullets. The other 5% were using Plated bullets.
Of the winners, Only 1 was using Plated.
All other winners, 1st, 2nd & 3rd in Std, Prod, Classic Divisions were using coated bullets.
Of these there was only 2 that were NOT using My Bullets.
I shot Classic Div with a Kimber 38Super. I used the 150gn TRN bullet coated with Kryptonite Green. 1st in B grade and now have a grade break and re-grade now to A grade Classic Division.
Very Happy with the result and the bullet use. I took 20,000 bullets to the match to sell and came home with none. I should have taken more as everyone was after them.
Are HI-TEK coated bullets Popular in Australia?????? You bet your **** they are.....

[Gremlin460]

You got to the GCPC this weekend Trev??, it was closed for a 2 day IPSC event, I I took off up north to the Gympie Pistol Club to meet with old friends and have a day of hunting feral Ten-Pins..

[Ausglock]

Yep. Gold Coast always has a great match for the Errol Harper Memorial.

[Eviltoy]

Hi guys. So what are the preferred molds for use with the system. I have some dry tek on its way to me. Will be doing 9mm

[HATCH]

Technically the smash test is really not a 'real world' test. What you need to worry about is if it comes off when you size it. Who cares if it flakes off when it hit the target.
Think about what happens when you fire the round. The boolit is squeezed into the rifling and exits the bore. It only gets smashed if it hits a hard surface.
I would size them and shoot them.
And don't get me wrong. If a boolit passes the smash test then you know the coating isn't coming off at all when fired. But in your case I would load and shoot.

[Ausglock]

Hi guys. So what are the preferred molds for use with the system. I have some dry tek on its way to me. Will be doing 9mm

It works with all molds that I have used.
Here in Australia, There is a big call for grooveless bullets, But groove bullets work fine when coated. Bevel base is easier to do as there is less flashing at the base. When doing flat base, I coat/bake once, size and coat/bake the second time.

[Love Life]

I have found grooveless to hold a slight edge in the accuracy department. However, I don't have a ransom rest so those 20 comparison targets may have just been me having a good day.

[Love Life]

I just wanted to pop in with a quick note on the HI-TEK powder.

When I 1st started testing the powder in Nevada, the average humidity was 17%. The powder in the canister was super fine line powder sugar with no clumps.

Now that I am in Georgia, the average humidity in my Garage is 80%. Upon opening the powder canister there are small little lumps of the powder. I stirred it with a fork and all the lumps broke up, but the powder definitely "feels" different.

I'll get some cast and coated in the next month and see if coating and curing qualities have changed at all. This will also allow me to see if the humidity has any effects on already coated projectiles coated under different conditions. I'll keep some stored, and fire some to see if there is anything dramatic.

[Eviltoy]

It works with all molds that I have used.
Here in Australia, There is a big call for grooveless bullets, But groove bullets work fine when coated. Bevel base is easier to do as there is less flashing at the base. When doing flat base, I coat/bake once, size and coat/bake the second time.
Ah ok. So what mold do you guys recommend I get as I only have the the lee 9mm tumble lube one that apparently isn't all that

[Ausglock]

Ah ok. So what mold do you guys recommend I get as I only have the the lee 9mm tumble lube one that apparently isn't all that

So. what weight are you looking at? Have a look at Accurate molds website and checkout the 35-135Z
Or Hardline industries have a few sweet 124, 130 and 135gn grooveless roundnose molds.
The Lee 124gn RN with 1 groove works great in my SVI racegun.

[Eviltoy]

Looking close to 147gr I see NOE have a nice mold for it

[Ausglock]

Hardline's is better.

[Eviltoy]

Hardline's is better.
I see will look into it then

[Michael J. Spangler]

Cast and coated about 1500+
Yesterday. A mix of MP 454-200 HP and good old 358156.

I also coated a handful of lee 457-405 and water dropped them after the second coat.
Not sure if that's going to help or not.
They're 50/50 COWW and Pure with a little added tin.
I might pick up a lee hardness tester today to see what the results are.

[Ausglock]

New test colours coming from HI-TEK to test.
Hope there is a Blue and a pink that work this time...
Watch this space!!!!!!

[Redwoode]

Hi-Tek 2 Extreme Catalyst. Have some ordered to try. A couple of questions:

1 - mix at same ratio as std catalyst?
2 - should heat cure temp and time be same as std?
3 - ok to use in base/ first coat and apply mix with std in subsequent coat(s)?

[Ausglock]

1. yes
2.yep.
3. no worries.

[PAT303]

Joe,did you receive my email from a few days ago?. Pat

[HI-TEK]

Joe,did you receive my email from a few days ago?. Pat

No, It is best if you contact me on jandmspecializedproducts@gmail.com
The other email seems not working.

[leadman]

Eviltoy, the Lee TL boolits work well with the HT coating. I have bought these just for the purpose of coating with HT.

[Eviltoy]

Eviltoy, the Lee TL boolits work well with the HT coating. I have bought these just for the purpose of coating with HT.

I see will try it out but its the round nose version