Cast Bullets in an AR-15 Platform. Any problems with plugging gas port

[Bruizer]

I looking at casting and running bullets in my AR-15, A little cheaper and I run cast bullets for all of my handguns now. A gunsmith friend of mine states, "YOU CANNOT RUN CAST LEAD BULLETS IN A AR-15 GAS GUN AS IT WILL PLUG THE GAS PORT". I have been reading alot about the Hi-Tek coating, and have some questions about using these bullets in a AR. Also does anyone know where I can source, the Hi-Tek polmer paint in Canada or online. As I can not see a problem shipping it.

Thanks in advance for any help.

Bruizer

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

did you read this thread ?
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?203086-223-cast-bullets-in-a-AR-15-and-Bayou-bullet-coating

also, your gunsmith friend is wrong.

[Nickle]

I'll put this one into perspective.

If you shoot cast boolits in an AR, make good and sure to strongly avoid any leading issues. If it leads the bore, that's going to also get into the gas system, and I can tell you, it can be cleaned out, but is neither easy not fun.

I'll also tell you if it's wrong to do, well, then there's a lot of wrong people here. I will say I'm not one of them, but that's only because I swage my own jacketed bullets too.

So, make sure to get a handle on any leading issues and have fun.

[Larry Gibson]

Your gunsmith is wrong. Standard GC'd cast bullets work just fine but you will have to reduce the velocity (for accuracy) a lot. How much depends on the barrels twist.

Larry Gibson

[Moonie]

We load cast in 3 different caliber uppers, 5.56, 2 300AAC BO uppers and a 6.8SPC. No leading, no issues, no plugged gas systems, gas checked or plain base. Your gunsmith friend is giving you incorrect information, probably just repeating the FUD (Fear Uncertainty and Doubt) he has heard from others.

[Bruizer]

Thanks for all your reply's, I suspected he has dealt with problem ar's in the past that some people had soft bullets or were trying to run them at 3000 plus fps. So they were leading and causing the problem. Also he likes to run fmj bullets with all ar's.

I have contacted bayou bullets, but have not had any response yet.

Cheers

Bruce

[nhrifle]

I've heard that advice too. Currently I am running 2 ARs (.223 and 300 AAC) on a diet of cast boolits trying to prove that the gas system will get plugged with lead. I'm starting to get frustrated as the darn things keep running!

I've also heard that the Garand cannot be shot with lead boolits, as it will suffer a similar fate. Lots of folks here who are shooting them in their M1.

[garym1a2]

Here is a quick link of me shooting mine in a local 3Gun. So far I have about 300 rounds thru it and the barrel comes clean with only a simple brush and solvent. The bolt carrier and firing pin get a little dirty but clean right up. While I don't have it running as well as my Glock21 and 22 yet it stills works well. No FTF in that match.
My loads tend to be a little smokey and the comp is nice directing it out of line of sight. I uses White label C-Red lube and the lee 155 gr boolit.

http://youtu.be/G1tYa0qhT1Q

[Possum]

I'm shooting my 300blk with lead tomorrow. [smilie=6:

[xacex]

I have thousands of rounds of cast through my 300 blackout and it is still running fine. In fact, I ran it to 1000 rounds in a week once without cleaning just adding oil to see if it would stop. Nope, got sluggish from all of the carbon in the bolt, but it kept going. Gave her a scrub and she was gtg for the next session.

[Jupiter7]

I have thousands of rounds of cast through my 300 blackout and it is still running fine. In fact, I ran it to 1000 rounds in a week once without cleaning just adding oil to see if it would stop. Nope, got sluggish from all of the carbon in the bolt, but it kept going. Gave her a scrub and she was gtg for the next session.

About the same here, I just spray a squirt of clp in bolt lug/carrier key and keep on going.

[303Guy]

OK then, so if one wants to block the gas port, how would one do it? That boolit would need to be under obturation pressure as it passes the gas port but even then, it would need to be swaging pressure to get it to expand just a fraction into the port, right? So soft alloy would be the first requirement followed by a stiff load of slow powder. Alternatively, just omitting the boolit lube should do it but I'm talking of blocking the gas port without leading the bore.

Just a question, doesn't the gas blow out the lead in the gas port with full power loads?

[BSalty]

I have been running 55 gr pills in the AR for a long time. No problems. Waiting on some gas checks to try out the new 62 gr. pills from the mold I got from JT a few weeks ago.

If the leading fouls up the gas port, why can you shoot 22 LR through it with nothing more than a bolt carrier group swap? They are undersized and usually soft and don't have a problem.

I have heard that internet myth too, still have yet to encounter it in my rifle though.

[garym1a2]

If you did clog up your gas port after 10k or 20k rounds of cast you could take some on the money you saved over using J-bullets and buy a new gas block for $25 and a new gas tube for $15. For reference 10k of 55fmjs cost about $1000. So after shooting about 10k rounds of cast you saved enough money to buy a new AR!

[fcvan]

I've been shooting the Lyman 225-415 through my Mini 14 and my brothers AR for a while now without any problems. White Label BAC and a gas check over 14 grains of 4227 with nary a hitch. I could not see any appreciable amount of fouling that causes me to be concerned about clogging the port.

Only recently have I been powder coating them with Harbor Freight flat black and a gas check. Same 14 grain 4227 load and they leave the bore shiny and bright. The last time we went to the range with the Mini and the AR we shot both lubed and PC'd boolits and you can really tell the difference in less smoke. The PC'd boolits seem a tad faster than regular lubed boolits. I'm planning on taking the chronograph to the range next time so I can have a better idea how things are going.

Lyman #49 says about 2200 fps which seems to be what I recall when I first started running cast in the Mini 14. The point of impact is lower than the FMJ loads I used to run. After making a Kentucky windage adjustment I was able to nail a 4" rock at 200 yards offhand. My typical shooting with the Mini or the AR is rolling tin cans at 50 yards and the cast loads will do that all day long.

[xacex]

OK then, so if one wants to block the gas port, how would one do it? That boolit would need to be under obturation pressure as it passes the gas port but even then, it would need to be swaging pressure to get it to expand just a fraction into the port, right? So soft alloy would be the first requirement followed by a stiff load of slow powder. Alternatively, just omitting the boolit lube should do it but I'm talking of blocking the gas port without leading the bore.

Just a question, doesn't the gas blow out the lead in the gas port with full power loads?

I use a m261 conversion unit in my 5.56 AR from time to time, and the instructions say to fire a magazine of standard 5.56 rounds after a day of shooting .22lr to make sure the gas port is clear. So, I have tried to plug it up by not following those instructions, and it still has remained clear.
To lead the gas tube I think you have the right idea. No lube, slow powder that will not hardly cycle the bolt, so low gas pressure, and heating the base of the bullet enough to soften the base of. Or you could do the same, but use a hard lube that builds up in the gas tube. You would have to do some slow firing to keep the gas tube from getting hot enough to allow the lube to blow out.

[GT27]

Never made any joy in my Stag 1-9,5 different types of powder,bookoo different loads,2 different boolit types,different lead mixes for the boolit. It would shred the boolit by the time I had made it to the point of function,sold my 223 molds and gave up on the idea,I would have to see with my own eyes to believe it,some here say it can be,and has been done,takes more patience than I would ever dream of having...:?

[Larry Gibson]

Just a question, doesn't the gas blow out the lead in the gas port with full power loads?

That be the phenomenon.......

I too have my own M261 sub cal device (22LRs in standard AR/M16s) and have used many of them for many years in the Army. In the SF company I was in we kept 2 M16A1s after conversion to M16A2s and M4s for exclusive use with the M261 on our indoor range. The M16A1s with the 12" twists shot the 22LR better than the M16A2s and M4s with 7" twists. I ran the armory, the range and reduced course qual for many Soldiers with those 2 M16A1s using issue Winchester Match .22LR. I left the bores uncleaned for over 5,000 rounds each.

We then came to our annual weapons abuse month (September; shoot up all the ammo in the AHA before the end of fiscal year) so I just ran a couple patches down the bore of each and, on the outdoor range (Range 22, Fort Lewis, WA) fired a magazine of 20 rounds of M193 through each M16A1 w/o a single hint of failure to cycle.

The manual (TM) for the M261, in fact, does state to do that. I probably used over 100 M261 devices through various M16A1s over the years w/o a single incident of gas port/tube plugging. I've also shot and awful lot of cast bullets through numerous ARs and M16s over the years w/o a hint of plugged gas port/tube plugging. Then there are all the other gas operated weapons I've used and continue to use with cast bullets............w/o problems.........

Larry Gibson

[runfiverun]

Never made any joy in my Stag 1-9,5 different types of powder,bookoo different loads,2 different boolit types,different lead mixes for the boolit. It would shred the boolit by the time I had made it to the point of function,sold my 223 molds and gave up on the idea,I would have to see with my own eyes to believe it,some here say it can be,and has been done,takes more patience than I would ever dream of having...:?

I hope little girl's stag doesn't see this.

everybody at the Nevada cast boolits shoot would have to be convinced they didn't see her use it to shoot several groups well under 2" at over 2700 fps in hers.

[kcinnick]

I tried a couple of styles of bullets in .223 coated with hi-tek coating and I didn't get very good accuracy results. I didn't cast them, I don't have any .223 molds. They didn't lead, but they were designed for a gas check. I would have to spend more time working with cast bullets to find a product I was happy with enough to sell, I am sure it can be done. I can't keep up with pistol bullets now anyway, maybe one day I will be caught up and have some spare time...

[timberhawk]

I cast for all my handguns but want to start casting for my 1/8' twist AR and 1/9" twist Mini 14.
What weight would anyone recommend?
I may also try to shoot it in my 22-250.

[Lee1954]

I beliuve that leading the barrle -maybe port... can be part of the learning curve. Mostly on the hot side,
And elbow grease and bore brush are the way not to take them to a gunsmiths.
I hate it when I goof up !!

There is a load of folk with good luck post here -- I like 70 gr -- Gascheck

[Larry Gibson]

I cast for all my handguns but want to start casting for my 1/8' twist AR and 1/9" twist Mini 14.
What weight would anyone recommend?
I may also try to shoot it in my 22-250.

60 gr fully dressed. Will work in 8 and 9" twist if velocity is kept down to a reasonable level; best accuracy generally comes where functioning is reliable with medium burning powders. Will also work in 22-250 where the twist is likely 14".

Larry Gibson

[avball]

What kind of range can you accurately punch paper at with these loads?

[arjacobson]

About the same here, I just spray a squirt of clp in bolt lug/carrier key and keep on going.

Yep...