9X57 & 8X57 information Please

[Cosmiceyes]

I want to glean your knowledge! The 8X57 I'm sure there are boolits cast by many with good load information. It is going to be for fun, deer, and pigs out to 200 meters. The same I know can take out larger game, but I was wondering who has knowledge of the 9X57? Cast boolets,molds they've used, powders, and gun types. I know about the 9.3X62, but it is way more than I need.Does anyone have comparative information? What ever tidbits you have I will greatly appreciate! Thank You! :)'s

[khmer6]

Are you looking for ballastics data or loading information

[Larry Gibson]

If you're going to BUILD a 9x57 with a .358" barrel, it could be between the 358 Winchester and the 35 Whelen. If you choose a 1-14" twist, or maybe even a 1-12", it should be good for full throttle with cast boolits!

I may have to drag the old JP Sauer out and try it with the RCBS 35-200-FN.

A 14" twist with that RCBS 200 gr cast is sweat and deadly, excellent cartridge.

Larry Gibson

[1500FPS]

I believe the 9x57 to be a good cartridge, but I would opt for the 9.3x57 which is a little more common. Husky made many sporters in this caliber from the M96 Swede rifle. They are fine rifles and not too hard to find. The 9.3x57 will do everything that you are asking. The dies for the 9.3x57 are cheaper then the 9x57. The 9x57 is kind of an odd ball today. Of course the only difference between the two are bullet diameter. Brass is plentiful for either of the, just run 8x57 Mauser brass in the full length resizer die.

I wouldn't worry about rifling twist, as the common rifling twist for the 9.3x57 runs between 11 to 16 and pretty much the same for the 9x57. Don't worry about getting more velocity with a faster twist because I can assure you that your shoulder will give out first.

[1500FPS]

While 9.3s might be more plentiful, the edge goes to the 9x57 when it comes to selction of moulds, GCs, and jacketed bullets! I may have my 9x57 rebored, but it will be to 9.5 and NOT 9.3!

That is true of off the shelf commercial molds, but with all the custom group buys going on one can actually get a better fitting bullet. One wouldn't have to build a custom rifle as the Husky's are easy to find on the auction sites at very reasonable prices.

[Jeff Michel]

NOE offers a real nice 9.3 mould.

[Nickle]

I load for the 9x57, 9.3x57 and 9.5x57. Of course, I'm in the business.

I can't readily think of better choices for these diameters and cast boolits. And, though the 9.3 has a few advantages over the 9, I would still recommend the 9 because of better advantages in the area of components. You buy it once, you use it much more often. Reloading die cost will be offset by cost of casting equipment. Not to mention the cost and selection, should you use j-word bullets from time to time.

And, cases can be made from 30-06 or 35 Whelen, if you prefer, instead of 8x57. 30-06 brass might be cheaper and/or easier to obtain.

[Cosmiceyes]

I am looking for everything you have listed,and personal experence too! Thanks :)'s

[Cosmiceyes]

So the 9mm and 358/8.8mm are so close that you could reload just .358 boolits? What about Beagle the mold of a .358/8.8mm?I will be probably be using a old Mauser Action,then re-barreling. A custom mold,but I don't know what boolit shape,and weight to try for.Thus the question with a huge hole needing to gather enough information to help me on my way! :)'s

[Nickle]

It helps if you're a little more specific. There's a lot of info. I'd check Midway on component availability. You'll see 9.3 is an odd diameter. 9x57 is 356 (358 does work), 9.3x57 is 365 (an oddball) and 9.5x57 should be 375. That would be bore diameter/jacketed bullet size. The 9.5 is on the rare side to tool up or find.

9x57 loads depend on what type bullet you're using, and other variables.

[Nickle]

So the 9mm and 358/8.8mm are so close that you could reload just .358 boolits? What about Beagle the mold of a .358/8.8mm?I will be probably be using a old Mauser Action,then re-barreling. A custom mold,but I don't know what boolit shape,and weight to try for.Thus the question with a huge hole needing to gather enough information to help me on my way! :)'s

The 9x57 is a 356 bore. So, using 358 boolits, sized to 358, should work about right.

[Cosmiceyes]

Larry
Is the 9X57 a 9mm or a 8.8mm?With what I am reading here from I am beginning to wonder? As I dive into all the oldest reloading manuals there is a absence of 9X57 totally!
Thanks Neighbor :)'s

[1500FPS]

Larry
Is the 9X57 a 9mm or a 8.8mm?With what I am reading here from I am beginning to wonder? As I dive into all the oldest reloading manuals there is a absence of 9X57 totally!
Thanks Neighbor :)'s

I hate to use this as they are not the most world renown experts, but most excellent in this case here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/9%C3%9757mm_Mauser

As you will notice in the nomenclature section on the right the bullet diameter is 9.1mm's. It also tells you it's pretty much like the 9x56 Manlicher round.

[Cosmiceyes]

Nickle,
Thanks,that is where I was getting lost on the 358 diameters. Now I am getting really excited. I actually have the Midway cat.opened up now looking for dies. It is why I missed your quote,and asked the question addressed to Larry.
The load will need to kill medium game out to 200.
Thanks

[Cosmiceyes]

I went straight to wiki.That is very,very helpful. Thank you loads! :)'s

[Nickle]

Don't use wiki on the oddballs, as sometimes the info isn't right. Now, I'm not bashing wiki, as that would be bashing myself. Yes, wiki information is put there by contributors, and I've been one of them. You can too.

Folks, my information came from Donnely's book on Cartridge Conversions, and it's pretty good.

True diameter is said to be .356. I know good and full well .358 bullets are normal for this caliber. Why is simple. 358 is what's out there. In other words, you're not going to handily find .356 rifle bullets. If you're casting, .358 or .359 should work.

As to what load, I'll have to look it up, not overly mobile for the next couple days.

However, I would think the following is a good start.

https://www.google.com/search?q=9x57+mauser+reloading+data

[1500FPS]

You are welcome. When I got my 9.3x57 long ago and was looking for dies I noticed the 9x57 costing more. If I am not mistaken I think the only ones I found were from Redding on the Midway site. I know CH makes them too.

[Cosmiceyes]

Nickle,that works well as a whole discussion exist here at this site starting in 2006.A custom built Mauser with many load factors!
Thanks Jules :)'s

[Cosmiceyes]

1500FPS
Dies are made by are made by Hornady,but listed as 9.3x57mm Mauser(9mm Mauser);Redding a 9x57mm Mauser(9mm Mauser);There is a Callahan Do it yourself Die Blank in 358 caliber page 340 Midway.I haven't found the reamers yet! I will call Hornady to confirm if it's both calibers or a misprint.I am hoping misprint.

[mroliver77]

You could use Redding competition dies with different bushings. I would think you could load any of the X57 with the correct neck bushing and same body die.

Mebbe one could build as switch barrel gun and make everything based on the X57 case. Hmmm, 5.56X57?, 6mmX57?, 11mmX57!!
Jay.

[1500FPS]

1500FPS
Dies are made by are made by Hornady,but listed as 9.3x57mm Mauser(9mm Mauser);Redding a 9x57mm Mauser(9mm Mauser);There is a Callahan Do it yourself Die Blank in 358 caliber page 340 Midway.I haven't found the reamers yet! I will call Hornady to confirm if it's both calibers or a misprint.I am hoping misprint.

Hornady doesn't make a 9x57 die set. They do make the 9.3x57 though.

[GabbyM]

Concerning boolit fit. Minor diameter of the bore is what you have to fit a bore ride bullets nose to. Boolit body can be seized.
If you do not already have molds in the 35 to 9.3mm size I'd wait until after you receive whatever caliber gun you chose. Then do a chamber / throat / bore casting or slug. Then if it's not dead on standard have a custom mold made for it. accuratemolds dot com would be high on my list for a flat nose hunting boolit.

If I had a Mauser laying around here looking for a rebarrel I'd be very inclined to chamber it in a cast boolit friendly round using the original 8x57mm case to keep feeding as crisp as possible. Plus the 308 is shorter and smaller and the 30-06 is so close to being to long. Personally I'd seriously favor the .357 x .350" bore spec to use the molds I have in inventory and the excellent J bullets available to the Whelan as a resale enhancement. I'd only use cast in a 35 or larger gun. Come to think of it I've had my new 30-06 close to a year and haven't shot a J boolit from it yet. Then as far as a resale at estate auction. As long as you label your die and mold boxes to match too your gun and all loaded and in process brass. So they can be sold as a complete working kit. I'd be confident on a strong resale value. For instance. I've all my various 223 REM labeled either M-16 standing for the 5.56mm NATO chamber or Rem - 700 for my heavy varmint bolt gun in 223 REM SAMI chamber. Next line list if it's a neck sized or whatever. Some NATO rounds are labeled as minimum FL sized / # of rifle. Meaning they are fit to chamber. I have to do this labeling just to keep it all straight for my own use so a little finer explanation keeps it labeled so anyone can match up my inventory. I've already handed over a few firearms to my daughters and there husbands. Pretty handy to be able to go to the ammo closet and pull down clearly labeled boxes that match the gun you are moving on. At the same time your children have seen how your stuff is labeled so they know how to sort it out. I've a huge pile of stuff here. My plan is to not have much left in 30 years or so when I'm done with it. Hoping for some grandsons to pass it on to item at a time.

At minimum you need things labeled well enough to get it all together if you want to actually use it or sell it. I moved twice in ten month about eleven years ago. First move was a fast one at a divorce crossroads. Still don't have things sorted out. Had it all organized on pretty shelves. That all went down the drain when I hastily chucked most of it into a truck. One or two thousand dollars worth got left behind because it was off in a corner closet somewhere. Much to be said for a neat and tidy kit.

For me:
With all the rifles I have. Any 358 to 9.3mm bore rifle would not be a dual use rifle. But if you are planning on dual using this for light and heavy loads the .358" boolits give you the 180 to 200 grain pistol cast boolits to shoot over shotgun powders. I own the Lyman 195 grain RN PB Saeco 180 rnfp-gc and a 205 grain custom fat nose GC rifle boolit. Then the whole range of .357 pistol bullets in lighter weights. Size dies , which are not free, in the full range of the .357 caliber bores. Next step beyond that and I've a full range of .375" bullets and dies. So I'd go with one or the other. But for anyone starting from scratch it doesn't matter to much. Unless you think you may want to some day shoot the best revolvers ever made. 38 Special K frames.

I've a very nice 240 grain FP .359" x .350-.352 tapered nose bullet from Mountain molds. Wouldn't fit a new bore but It's hard for me to imagine a similar 240 grain .358" over an 8x57mm case not working even on a brown bear. Be better than any 30 caliber for sure. .375 and larger would be my choice for Browns. Having hunted black bear in the UP of Michigan and seen how anemic a 30-06 is on those. They die but run off into the thick bush. Be nice to drop them closer to the road. Typical 250 yard run after the shot. We used 30-06 , 8x57, 375 WIN and all ran 250 yards regardless of how many shots they took. Typical 240 lbs gutted weight sows. They run into six inches of water Two foot of grass under ten foot wild cherry saplings spaced about twelve inches apart. Of course the fun part is you don't really know if they are dead or not when you go in. Much to be said for large caliber rifles use on even black bears. I love my 270 Win for most things. But for bears with thick skin over four inches of fat then big rib bones. HV light bullets under 200 grains just are not the best of recipes. Even with the super duper solid copper or premium bullets. You are just compensating for the small caliber deficiencies. Big tough animals need a big piece of lead. Then you work from there to fine tune. 240 grain .358" FP at 2200 fps or so will take you all around North America. 1-14" twist is standard for barrel manufactures and is about right. A McMillan barrel is good enough for a hunting rifle. For any DGR I'd go with irons then if my eyes went south I'd go with a red dot mounted forward so not to interfere with reloads. Receiver mounted aperture sights have a decided cool factor along with many advantages. I'm 58 years old and still good for 3" offhand with my Win 94 in 30-30 with stock barrel mounted sights. Probably counting down the years with figures on one or two hands where I'll be placing a red dot on my Win 94. At some point in later years in life it's more important that you still get out there and do it than how cool you look doing it. Always the option of mounting a scope on a big game hunting rifle. I've done it both ways but prefer the irons .

[GabbyM]

Hornady doesn't make a 9x57 die set. They do make the 9.3x57 though.

I'd recommend http://www.ch4d.com/ custom in any case. I've some Hornady dies around here I'd give away since they are just junk. Have other Honady dies that are good. But that's the cut. I'm not Hornady's quality control department.

Here in Central Illinois we have a couple of gun smiths competent enough to set a man up with a custom rifle barrel install and all the loading dies to go along with it. If there is any area in the USA devoid of this service just post here and a hundred gunsmiths will gravitate into that area. I'm a machinist by trade and this do it yourself gun smithing is expensive for me. Technical knowledge and skill is no issue. Tooling cost up front is something that unless you are burning out half dozen barrels a year you'll not recover. It's a very rare case where you aren't better off finding your best gunsmith within two hours drive and using his service.

[CENTEX BILL]

Everyone has their reason for wanting various calibers and I have has some oddballs. But when all is said and done, it would appear that the 358 Winchester would do everything you want and would be a standard cartridge with cheaper components and dies. Just a thought.

Bill

[Nickle]

I've got a bunch of CH dies myself, mostly older, of course. But, I find them to be a good product.

[Char-Gar]

This thread peaked my curiosity and I made a 9X57 case to get an in hand gander at it. I happen to have a 9X57 Lyman Shell Resizer in my collection of about 30 such gizmos. I first trimmed a Lake City 30-06 case to proper length, then expanded it in a 38 Special expander and then pushed it into the die.

The finished case has a longer neck than the 8X57 with the resulting more short and abrupt shoulder. It should make a fine cast bullet round as well as a good game round with any type of bullets.