"oversize brass"....38 Special problem

[opos]

I got a strange one...I'm not a highly seasoned loader like many but I thought I'd seem many of the little things that are puzzling when loading. I recently got a couple hundred "once fired" 38 special brass (no nickel) cartridges....I cleaned them up (were in nice shape)..inspected them...de capped and resized them with my Lee carbide dies and primed them...set them aside for more time later...that was a couple of months ago..been stored in temp/humidity control

Yesterday I began the process of flaring the throats and all went along fine until I began to notice some of the cases had no "resistance" to the flaring die and when I checked them the semi jacketed Remington hollow point 125 grain projectile would just push in all the way....only an occasional one reacted like this....I kept track and if it appeared the brass was that way I set it aside...when I got done I had about 20 of the 200 total that were larger than the bullet diameter and would let the bullet just slide in without a die being involved...I pulled the decapping pin from my full length sizing die and resized them again...they didn't seem to even resist the die and when done the bullets would still just slide in (without flaring the throats). I mic'd the bullets, tried different (Speer) 125 grain bullets, etc....all the same...When I checked I found all of the cases that were in question were R P cases. Only thing I can think of is that possibly they were shot out of a gun with a really sloppy cylinder and had not "sprung back"...they don't look worn, bulged, anything out of order...just really loose. I made up some dummy rounds and hand seated the bullets to the cannelure ring and then used the Lee factory crimp die with a "medium" crimp crimped the bullets into the cases...they seemed to seat and it took 5 good solid "whacks" with the hammer bullet puller to get the bullets out...and that's the same amount of pounding to get the bullets out of a couple of dummies I made up with the brass that seemed to be just normal.

Anyone have any ideas? I did ask on another board and some folks thought the brass might have come from a 38 smith and wesson but I think that's a different cartridge all together...only thing I can think of is weak brass or brass that was stretched and didn't return to original...I plan to shoot them this week to see if they shoot allright...medium loads of 231 with the jacketed 125 grainer and I shoot a GP100 or an "original" Vaquero in 357/38 so good solid and tight guns.

any thoughts much appreciated..
thanks
opos

[1500FPS]

If you resized them it doesn't matter what gun they were fired in the sizer die should take them down to the correct size. I suspect, and since you mentioned R-P cases, that the case mouths are thinner then the other brands. I've never ever like Remington pistol brass because of that.

The 38 S&W is a different case although it can be sized in 38 Spcl dies and work in some 38/357 revolvers but not all. Not need to do that though.

[9.3X62AL]

38 Special cases don't often vary a lot dimensionally between brands, but they do vary. This is one good reason to sort by case make, and treat each maker's brass as a law unto itself. Which is what you actually did with these Rem hulls, as it turns out. Well done! I'm sure these cases are "safe" to use, they are just made outside the tolerances of your tooling. Wait until you venture into 9mm reloading--those cases and pistols are the poster children of dimensional poetics. For my part, 38 Special cases are common enough and usually easy enough to find that I won't mess with uncooperative dimensions like these you mention.

I have yet to encounter an anomaly of this sort using Starline brass in any caliber. As time goes on, SL is taking over my ammo locker--one caliber at a time.

[44Vaquero]

I am inclined to agree with 1500FPS, thinner brass is most likely the issue. I have seen the same thing every now and then, put the 20 cases aside and save them for cast boolits.

[opos]

38 Special cases don't often vary a lot dimensionally between brands, but they do vary. This is one good reason to sort by case make, and treat each maker's brass as a law unto itself. Which is what you actually did with these Rem hulls, as it turns out. Well done! I'm sure these cases are "safe" to use, they are just made outside the tolerances of your tooling. Wait until you venture into 9mm reloading--those cases and pistols are the poster children of dimensional poetics. For my part, 38 Special cases are common enough and usually easy enough to find that I won't mess with uncooperative dimensions like these you mention.

I have yet to encounter an anomaly of this sort using Starline brass in any caliber. As time goes on, SL is taking over my ammo locker--one caliber at a time.

My 45 Colt, 44 Special and 44 mag as well as my 30 carbine and much of the 357mag is either Starline or PMC which seems to be a good brass....I load some 125 grain lrnfp Missouri "Cowboy #2" with Trail Boss and I'd already decided to use the 20 or so rounds up there and then dump them....I had heard some folks talking about RP brass some time ago and recall their having trouble with lots of neck splitting, etc...This was just the first encounter I'd had with any quantity...I've had an occasional "large" diameter but maybe 1 round in a few hundred...and it just got crushed and tossed into the bucket...Looks like I'll be "picking" the remaining couple of hundred I've not done any processing on and hope it isn't too much...

As to loading 9mm...I don't own but 1 9mm and when the Wallymart stuff dropped to about $11 a box of 50 after the last crazy spell I bought enough for any 9mm shooting I'll probably ever do...Doubt I'll ever spend the money on the dies, etc...My main shooting is the bigger bore stuff and without reloading I'd be in the poor house..


Thanks to all for the input..
opos

[Tim357]

What 1500 said. I don't use Remington brass for that very reason, particularly .45ACP. Too easy to get the boolit shoved deeper into the case as it crashes into the feed ramp. Never noticed a problem with rimmed RP brass, but you know what they say, one aw$#!t negates a hundred attaboys...

[texassako]

Does it happen to have 2 cannelures in it? Wadcutter brass can be thinner.

[runfiverun]

thinner brass is what i'm thinking too.
neck tension is important.
i'd see if my 9m die would neck size the case to provide that tension.
but the batch of cases would definitely be measured and weighed and segregated.

[Vulcan Bob]

For what's its worth I too dislike RP brass as its "thin" case walls do not give you a good grip on the bullet. Good case tension on the bullet is just as important as a good crimp.

[williamwaco]

I sure would like to measure one of those thin cases.


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