Questions about .45 Colt handload

[Kermit2]

I'm working up .45 Colt loads for use in my Ruger New Model Blackhawk flat top. It is one of the Lipsey's models and has a 4 5/8" barrel. I'm casting boolits using a 96-2-2 alloy. The boolits are cast using an RCBS 45-270-SAA mould. The boolits are weighing about 285 grains. They're lubed with White Label BAC lube.

I loaded the rounds using Winchester brass and Federal standard large pistol primers. I loaded them with 8.0, 8.5, and 9.0 grains of Unique. Shot them at 25 yards using a pistol rest on a bench. The 8.5 grain load gave the best accuracy.

Could anyone give a good estimate of what the velocity on the 8.5 grain load might be with that revolver?

Would it be safe to load rounds using 9.5 and 10.0 grains of Unique and shoot them in the revolver I described?

I plan to use these loads for feral hogs, and the off chance I encountered a black bear or cougar here in southern MO. You don't see them often, but they are around. Is the 8.5 grain load stout enough to handle this?

All information will be appreciated. Thank you!

[Dan Cash]

I shoot a SAA revolver (US Firearms) and limit my loads to 8 grains of Unique. In my opinion, a 255 grain bullet at 850 fps is a potent load. Cougar are not hard to kill and a black bear is no tougher than an man. Your revolver is some what stouter than mine so you could go up with the velocity but, as I say, in my opinion you don't need to.

[pipehand]

Kermit, I have the same pistol and mold and with 8.5 grains of Unique I seem to remember it running around 925 FPS or so. Its been a while, but I was pleased enough that 8.5 became my standard load. I also use it in a S&W Mountain gun.

[PS Paul]

I have the same flattop revolver and it is built on the smaller .357 frame. HEAVY loads in the 26,000 to 30,000 CUP range are NOT prudent for use in this gun. Limit, according to everything I have read, seems to be 23,000 or so. I try draw the line at 21,000 for my handloads.

The 270SAA with 8.5 gr. to 9.0 gr. Unique is going around 850 to about
900 fps. I have found, like you, 8.6 gr. Unique is a most accurate load in my gun with THAT powder. Personally, I don't like putting much more Unique in my gun than that. It's tough on 'em.

I think for safety, 10.0 gr. Unique is below the CUP pressure limit I've set, BUT like Dan alludes above, 850 fps is a potent load.

That's a most-wonderful gun, BTW. I've REALLY enjoyed mine after several thousand rounds in it and after reaming the chamber mouths to .4525, it's about as accurate as I can shoot. Ever.

[USSR]

I shoot the Mihec clone of the RCBS .45-270-SAA bullet. I would estimate your velocity to be in the neighborhood of 850fps - 900fps. Rather than load 9.5gr and 10.0gr of Unique, I would suggest to go to a slower powder such as 2400. My favorite deer load in my S&W 25-5 is 18.0gr of 2400 for about 1050fps - 1100fps.

Don

[PS Paul]

Great suggestion above. 2400 works well, even with reduced-power loads. Unlike H110/296 which I DO NOT use in THAT gun. Those "Ruger-only" loads exceeding 25,000 CUP are for the larger-framed blackhawks.......

[Kermit2]

After reading the comments above and doing some more research I believe giving some 2400 a try is in order. I was thinking of working up to 16.5 or 17.0 grains of 2400 and see how that works out. The 8.5 Unique load shot good, but I want to make sure I have a stout enough load in case of a close encounter with a hog, bear, etc. The Ruger flat top is going to be my back up side arm on a hog hunt in Texas with a Ruger .308 Scout Rifle as the primary armament.

[Char-Gar]

Since the advent of the larger frame Ruger Blackhawks on the Super Blackhawks frame folks have pushing 45 Colt loads beyond the previous limits for the smaller frame Rugers and Colts. In fact Ruger went from the smaller framed pistols to the larger framed new Blackhawks because they got tired of folks damaging their pistols trying to hot rod the 45 Colt round.

The Lipseys pistol is a return to the earlier smaller frame and are indeed fine pistols. I have one. They are not pistols to hot rod. If standard loads are not enough then trade it for the more robust new Blackhawks.

I would not go above 9 grains of unique and much prefer 8.5. This load has power to spare for your intended purposes.

I have lived and hunted in Texas all my life and have never seen a bear outside of a zoo. They are few and far between. You don't need to worry about bears in Texas. We do have an abundance of hogs to the point they have become pests. A 45 ACP round with a good bullet kills texas hogs graveyard dead.

[outdoorfan]

I'm working up .45 Colt loads for use in my Ruger New Model Blackhawk flat top. It is one of the Lipsey's models and has a 4 5/8" barrel. I'm casting boolits using a 96-2-2 alloy. The boolits are cast using an RCBS 45-270-SAA mould. The boolits are weighing about 285 grains. They're lubed with White Label BAC lube.

I loaded the rounds using Winchester brass and Federal standard large pistol primers. I loaded them with 8.0, 8.5, and 9.0 grains of Unique. Shot them at 25 yards using a pistol rest on a bench. The 8.5 grain load gave the best accuracy.

Could anyone give a good estimate of what the velocity on the 8.5 grain load might be with that revolver?

Would it be safe to load rounds using 9.5 and 10.0 grains of Unique and shoot them in the revolver I described?

I plan to use these loads for feral hogs, and the off chance I encountered a black bear or cougar here in southern MO. You don't see them often, but they are around. Is the 8.5 grain load stout enough to handle this?

All information will be appreciated. Thank you!

That load does a tad over 900 in my 4 5/8 blackhawk.

[pipehand]

Guys, my remembering was off. Shot the Ruger with the 45-270 SAA's and 8.5 grains of Unique over the chrono a few minutes ago and it kept reading +/- 875 FPS, or right where PS Paul said it would.

[44MAG#1]

Have you tried the slower loads at 50 to 100 yards from the bench and see if the slower loads hold their accuracy? I have found they do not quite hold up accuracywise. I use the slower loads but not at any distance.
I use 19 gr 2400 and standard primers with a Mihec 270 SAA bullet. Also 20 gr with a 454424 Lyman with a standard primer.
Also 24 gr of H110 with a Win. LP primer with the Mihec 270.
These loads were recommended to me by one of the top 45 Colt custom gunsmiths in the nation.
He also recommended them for the Ruger NEW Vaquero and I use them in mine.
I have used 6 gr Bulleye, 9.5 of Power Pistol, 7 gr Unique, 8.5 Unique and they give good accuracy at shorter ranges but don't suit me at 50 to 100.

[DougGuy]

OP, as Char-Gar mentioned, your Ruger is the medium frame flattop, which is safe to .45 ACP +P pressures of 23,000psi, but NOT SAFE with the Ruger Only loads that get up near 30,000psi. If you want a .45 Colt that will shoot loads that a lot of us consider suitable for hog, I would recommend a large frame gun and not a New Model Flattop or a New Vaquero.

[44MAG#1]

Since he is the owner of the gun he should know the frame size. If he doesn't something is wrong.
He should know about HIS firearms and do some studying if he doesn't.
The smaller frame guns will handle 23000 psi loads. Any load up to that will be okay.
Will they last as long as shooting loads at 18000? No. Will it last as long at 18000 as it would
at 14000? No. Will it last longer if he doesn't fire it at all? Yes but they were made to use.

[outdoorfan]

I have shot the RCBS 270 boolit over 8.5 grs Unique out to 100 yards. A full cylinder full will print 6-9 inches, depending (I'm sure) on how well I shoot. 6.5 grs Red Dot will do 835 fps and the same accuracy. 5.2 grs Red Dot will do 650 fps and around 3-4 inches at 50 yards. That's out of 4 5/8 barrel with open sights.



Have you tried the slower loads at 50 to 100 yards from the bench and see if the slower loads hold their accuracy? I have found they do not quite hold up accuracywise. I use the slower loads but not at any distance.
I use 19 gr 2400 and standard primers with a Mihec 270 SAA bullet. Also 20 gr with a 454424 Lyman with a standard primer.
Also 24 gr of H110 with a Win. LP primer with the Mihec 270.
These loads were recommended to me by one of the top 45 Colt custom gunsmiths in the nation.
He also recommended them for the Ruger NEW Vaquero and I use them in mine.
I have used 6 gr Bulleye, 9.5 of Power Pistol, 7 gr Unique, 8.5 Unique and they give good accuracy at shorter ranges but don't suit me at 50 to 100.

[44MAG#1]

I assume that is offhand accuracy. From the bench that is not really good.

[smkummer]

What I have discovered in 45 Colt with 250-260 grain LEAD bullets is that 8 grains Unique = about 800 FPS, 8.5=850 and 9.0=900. This is with 5 1/2 to 7 1/2 barrel lengths. I stop at 9.0 because I am shooting 3rd generation Colts although I see Alliant now states that 9.5 grains of Unique is permissible. I believe I will settle on 8.5 for comfort.

[1500FPS]

Since the advent of the larger frame Ruger Blackhawks on the Super Blackhawks frame folks have pushing 45 Colt loads beyond the previous limits for the smaller frame Rugers and Colts. In fact Ruger went from the smaller framed pistols to the larger framed new Blackhawks because they got tired of folks damaging their pistols trying to hot rod the 45 Colt round.

The Lipseys pistol is a return to the earlier smaller frame and are indeed fine pistols. I have one. They are not pistols to hot rod. If standard loads are not enough then trade it for the more robust new Blackhawks.

I would not go above 9 grains of unique and much prefer 8.5. This load has power to spare for your intended purposes.

I have lived and hunted in Texas all my life and have never seen a bear outside of a zoo. They are few and far between. You don't need to worry about bears in Texas. We do have an abundance of hogs to the point they have become pests. A 45 ACP round with a good bullet kills texas hogs graveyard dead.

I believe Ruger went to the large frame on the Blackhawk to aid production and possibly to cut costs as there would be one frame for all calibers. To say they did it to stop people from ho rodding their 45 Colt revolvers would be like them saying "Hey, try and blow this one up".

[outdoorfan]

I assume that is offhand accuracy. From the bench that is not really good.


Sure. Everyone has a different view of what "good" or "bad" accuracy is. No problem. Those groups were shot off the bench. I can't do anywhere close to that good off-hand. If you and others can (and I know that some can), hats off to ya! I'm impressed, and I wish I could shoot that well too.

[Outpost75]

7459574592

At 100 yards, sandbagged, 9" at 100 yards with a revolver is quite acceptable accuracy. Most ordinary handgun ammunition when fired from an industrial test barrel doesn't average much better than 4-5" at fifty yards, and match grade ammunition 2-3". If you assume that dispersion is linear with the range (which is NOT always the case) anything under 6 inches at 100 yards with a handgun, hand-held, with iron sights, given their short sight radius, is quite good. This target was shot with my Colt New Service M1909 in .45 Colt with Saeco #954 230-grain Cowboy bullets, shot as-cast and unsized at .455", lubricated with Lee Liquid Alox and 7.2 grains of Bullseye. It chronographs about 1000 fps and is a "full-charge" load, which should not be exceeded. This 12-shot group, taking a neck hold, framing the torso with tiny sights which are hard to see, showing all shots, the good, bad and the ugly, fliers and all, excluding NOTHING is good performance.

74591

[RobS]

Here is an article that provides very good load data for the particular boolit in question by the original poster.

http://www.riflemagazine.com/magazine/PDF/HL%20246partial.pdf

If it were me with a small frame Ruger 45 Colt I would look at the 20K and under load data as the upper end 32K loads are intended for the large frame Rugers.

A chronograph will give you the best bet in regards to where your pressures are though. Each gun is made a bit different and some loads are put together with larger diameter boolits that could create more pressures if they have to swage down in the cylinder throats i.e. a .452 boolit vs a .454 boolit and there are those people who shoot softer boolits at 12ish BHN and those that shoot 20+ BHN which means more or less pressure depending on the variables.

[44MAG#1]

Outpost75:
The word "good" or "acceptable" is really a relative term. A 9 inch group is "good" compared to a 12 inch group. that 9 inch group is more "acceptable" than the 12 inch group.
My use of the words are more restrictive than some. I would call 9 inches at 100 yards "poor" but that could even be called "good" even though "poor" if the "poor" was compared to a 14 inch group.
See it is determined on how easy you want to make it on yourself when it come to what is poor, mediocre, fair, good on up to phenomenal.
With iron sights and decent eyesight I would shoot for at most 5 inches at 100.

[outdoorfan]

Ok, so apparantly you do have the skill to shoot at or under 5 inches at 100 (including flyers) with a short-barreled iron-sighted revolver. I consider that very good to amazing, and I would wager that most on this forum would agree. I think that those who can shoot that well are very very few. So, I would reclassify what you consider "good" to be "very good" or "excellent" or "outstanding".

Just saying...

[44MAG#1]

All I am saying I have not had the longer range accuracy with the slower loads that I have had in the faster loads. Remember it is all relevant one to another. 20 gr 2400 with the Lyman 454424 shoots better to me than the lighter charges at slower velocity.
19 gr 2400 with the Mihec 270 SSA bullet is better to me too.
In one way to think about it the slower/lighter charges should be easier to get accuracy with due to the lighter recoil and blast but to me that is not true for me.
But as most know I don't know much.

[outdoorfan]

That's interesting because in my one .45 blackhawk I seem to get better accuracy with the lighter charges. Since I've never scoped it, I can't say what the gun's true potential is either. And "long range" is another loose term. To me 100 yards is fairly long. but Lloyd and some others are probably just getting started at 100 yards.

[44MAG#1]

Like I said what do I know? At one time I was stupid enough to think mass could be weighed since it has Newtonian weight which is derived from kilograms times the speed of gravity in meters per second. Now I am confused if kilograms even exist because mass can not be weighed.
I seem to get better accuracy with the heavier loads past 25 yards or so out to "relatively" long range.