155 grain collor button in a 1911.

[Dave C.]

Has anyone tried it? I have a 38 special that I shoot bellow flush seated wad cutters. So I am going to try the 155 CB in my 45. Think it will work? I looking to get 780fps.


Dave C.

[35remington]

My concern will be feeding. The necessarily short overall length will require a very early releasing magazine, and the very late feed ramp strike from a short overall length round means the climb up the feedramp will be steep and the rim will be at a steep angle to the extractor in feeding, making it less likely that it will get there.

1911's like longer rounds, and if it doesn't feed I definitely wouldn't feel bad or try modifying the gun unless one knows what one is doing and is sure such modification does not compromise the pistol using rounds it was designed to feed.

I admit I haven't tried it because I don't have one, but such are my concerns.

Try an early releasing magazine (McCormick type) to start. Not because they are best overall for the 1911 (they in fact are not) but because such magazines work better with short rounds.

[Lonegun1894]

Another concern, is your desired velocity. Your light weight boolit at such low velocity will probably not develop enough pressure/recoil to cycle the slide. I am betting you will have to either raise your velocity by quite a bit, or use a very light recoil spring. Now the higher velocity may work, but I couldn't tell you how high you would have to go. The light recoil spring may allow the slide to open and eject the spent case, but may not be heavy enough to strip the next one out of the magazine and chamber it. Personally, of more concern to me if you swap recoil springs would be what happens if you just forget, or worse, need to use full power rounds in an emergency. IF it works, it will beat up your gun unnecessarily, if it doesn't, it may not keep the slide closed long enough and breech pressure may not drop to a safe level before unlocking and then you're in serious trouble. Now if this is a dedicated "play" gun, this may not be a concern, but if it isn't, I would recommend that you tread carefully.

[45 2.1]

Your not the first one to think of that or do it.... and I wasn't either. It is a hoot with a stiff charge of Unique.......... water filled milk jugs disintegrate. Feeding and reliability should be of no concern either as my loads functioned everything it was tried in.

[44Vaquero]

74021I think this may be a better answer: Lee MOLD DC 452-160-RF

[Dave C.]

Lonegun1894:

If I can get it to feed from the magazine I am pretty sure I can make that velocity and bullet weight run the gun, as I shoot 148 gr wad cutters at the same speed in my 1911 conversions.
The question is will it be accurate?

Dave C.

[DRNurse1]

Dave:

Lonegun1894 and 35Remington have valid concerns and I have lurked here to see the results.

I think this has been tried and discarded in the past, but that is no reason not to try it again. I have used my ball ammo and SWC spring [14#] and the second or third round will cause my gun to malfunction / partially disassemble. My gun's parts are not staked into position so they can move if the vibration is great enough.

A concern not identified is the lighter weight boolit and larger cross section. These both affect accuracy, especially at the long line, and are affected by wind/ rain more than a heavier/ longer round. There is a thread here somewhere about the balistic effects on various boolit shapes and weights which may be helpful. I will see if I can locate it, but someone else may have it handy. 45 2.1 may have his results from which you can test your rounds and compare, as well.

An additional though is related to the case volume and resulting pressures. If you have a dedicated gun, it may be worth trying to roll crimp the case slightly to prevent boolit migration, and your powder charge would be affected due the increased case volume (shorter boolit). I am certain you know these things but I though it might be helpful to include them explicitly in this thread for any other novice reloaders.

I think the discussion so far is useful: the round's effect on the gun, the round's construction/ component effect on the boolit accuracy, and mental considerations (are you dedicating this gun to target uses or are you trying to multi-task) are worthy of consideration. I did not see the rational for your chosen velocity, maybe you could explain that sometime.

[Dave C.]

The bullet that I am going to use has the same bearing surface as a 200 grain H&G#68. So case volume will be the same. Why would I need to use a roll crimp? I have never had any bullet set back using the combination of dies and bullet diameter used. I have had good luck with this bullet in my model 1955 S&W. Thins out the ground hogs out to 70 yds. I chose 780fps because it has worked well in the past and I'm only punching holes in paper. And yes the gun will need to have to be sprung for the load used but so what?

Dave C.

[Lonegun1894]

Since you've considered the possibilities, and possible problems, I am curious as to what you can achieve. I will be watching to see what your results are because, frankly, I have no use for this type of load, but anything learned is an advantage so I am hoping to learn something, and hoping you manage to get results different from ones I have seen in the past--and most especially, I want to see the HOW you achieve them. Knowledge is power after all and I am here to learn.

[Firebricker]

Dave, I have the old Lyman 185gr button nose mould I've used it in other .45s but not a 1911. Fairly sure I've got some handy if you want to try a few PM me and I'll send you a few. It's not exactly design your looking into but it is close to give you an idea. FB

[Dave C.]

Thanks FB, I have that mould. I have too many moulds! (None for sale)
I was told that running a scope on the slide of a 38 special 1911 would not work but it does.
Some times you just have to try it for your self. How boring it would be if you never tried anything new. The first goal is to get the round from the magazine to the chamber. As always free time is limited, that pesky work thing. Hey Darrel, are you going to the Harrisburg match this week end?

Dave C.

[9.3X62AL]

The motive given here--to thin out the local varmint population--is both sound and honorable. ANYBODY could just grab a 17 HMR and let drive--this move has class written all over it.

[DRNurse1]

It sounds as though the only varmints Dave seeks are inside the X-ring in the B-6 and B-8 targets. I am anxious to here the results as well.

[44Vaquero]

Button bullet will be accurate for about 15 to 20 yards after that YMMV. Any time a projectile is thinner than it's width it will waffle at some point. Look up Dean Grennell he was very found of these, at one time he even tried a .357 Maximum in a bored out .357 revolver with 4 or 5 of them stacked up!!

[45 2.1]

I've shot the collar button out of 1911's, 45 Colt handguns and rifles and the short barreled 45-70 rifles. All of them shot quite accurately out to about 70 yards, then the accuracy fell off. Another problem is you have to find the right load for the rifles (which I did), but handguns tended to shoot below the sights enough to cause problems the farther out you got.

[DRNurse1]

Good information 45 2.1 but target shooters use an adjustable rear sight. Around 780 fps how much will the 155gr boolit drop out to 50 yards???

[Zymurgy50]

If you can find an approximate B.C. for the bullet the tables in the back of any reloading manual will give you drop at different velocities.