Ruger Bisley Vaquero thoughts?

[Matt85]

as you've seen in my other thread ive been on the hunt for a SAA (single action army) revolver in .357 but due to a discovery in that thread ive shifted my interest some. I love the look of the Bisley revolvers and ive now learned they have them chambered in .357 (I thought they were only available in 45LC). so I started hunting around and found pretty much what im looking for in a six gun. its a SS Ruger Bisley Vaquero .357 mag with a 5.5" barrel and I cant stop the drool... my only complaints are the fake ivory grips and the non-adjustable sights. the grips are an easy fix but sights might be an issue.

now for questions:
-does any one have one of these, how does she shoot?
-how "on" are the sights?
-I intend to shoot a lot of BP outa this gun, do you think the fixed sights will be a problem since they are set for modern powder?

my real worry is that the sights wont work well with the lower velocity BP loads. this would render the gun a paper weight to me as I don't reload smokeless and full power .357 loads would be strictly for hunting and self defense uses. your experience would be appreciated, thank you.

-Matt

[Lloyd Smale]

Your asking alot. I find that very few fixed sighted rugers or any other brand just happen to be spot on for the load i want to use. Good thing is a little work with a file usually cures about any of them.

[N4AUD]

I have a Ruger Vaquero in .44 Magnum, and I did have to file the sight a bit.

[Matt85]

shooting low is fine. (easy to file a sight as long as your care full)

my worry is shooting high, left, and right. I generally will not buy guns with fixed sights cause they never seem to shoot right and are hard to fix. but... finding exactly what I want is probably not gonna happen. in a perfect world id get a SS bisley Blackhawk 5.5" (i would also take a 6.5") with adjustable sights but that's not gonna happen less i pay major $$ assuming i can even find one (which i cant at the moment). i do admit the fixed sights are more attractive looking then the adjustable sights though.

-matt

[Dale53]

I happen to have a Ruger Bisley Vaquero in .45 Colt. It shoots to the sights (dead on at 25 yards) with the Lyman 452664 with black powder. I didn't even have to file the front sight. I shot it in a number of black powder cartridge competition and was competitive in every way. I used 30/1 lead/tin and my favorite black powder is Swiss 2f. The recoil is stout (but not quite as bad as Swiss 3f). You will get varying velocities with other black powders. Elephant 2f will give you about 750 fps. Goex about 850 and Swiss 3f nearly 1000 fps. Pyrodex pistol is about equal in velocity to Swiss. The gold standard for black powder bullet lube is SPG but I mostly used Emmert's home mix (50% pure natural beeswax, 40% Crisco, and 10% Canola oil). I later modified the lube by replacing canola oil with anhydrous lanolin for better shelf life. This load will shoot 2" at 25 yards from a rest in my gun. I can get 70-75 shots before the cylinder starts binding. A five minute clean up with home made black powder solvent has me up and running again. For cleaning I used Friendship Speed Juice. It dissolves black powder on contact.

My original Vaquero 4 5/8" shot to sights left to right but I had the file the front sight down a bit for elevation.

Everyone's eyes are different. I used fixed sights because the black powder matches required it. If I have a choice, I ALWAYS opt for adjustable sights. However, I must say, the Ruger's have GOOD fixed sights and if they happen to shoot to the sights for YOUR eyes, they are a viable option.

Keep in mind, you will pretty much be limited to one load. In my case, that worked out quite well...

http://i269.photobucket.com/albums/jj80/Dale53/RugerVaquero-2.jpg (http://s269.photobucket.com/user/Dale53/media/RugerVaquero-2.jpg.html)

FWIW
Dale53

[prs]

I shoot a brace of SS B.V.s with black powder in 45 Colt. Nice revolvers and built like tanks. Mine sport fake stag grips, but came with real rose wood grips. The fixed sights are well aligned in windage, but the height will almost certainly have you shooting low as the intent is for the shooter to file to suit one's pet load. I shoot one handed with both hands and one revolver has sights set to suit my left and the other my right. I opened the rear sight quite a bit as I shoot at close range with these and have poor vision.

I had to ream the cylinder throats, but mine are old and Ruger likely took care of that problem.

prs

[Matt85]

i think i may end up passing on this gun. the more i think about it, the more i realize the fixed sights will cause me grief. i want to be able to shoot a variety of loads from 38 special BP loads to modern smokeless 357 magnum. i really need to be able to adjust the sights so i can hit proper with these. i think ill pick up a standard Blackhawk for this and just keep an eye out for an adjustable bisley.

-matt

[44Vaquero]

Funny thing is once you dial in the adjustable sight's most people never touch them again anyway! I have a 6 inch .357 with adjustable sights I have not moved the sights in 10 years! Dialed them in with my pet load and accept that other loadings shoot to different point of aim.

My Bisley Vaquero in .44 Mag is just fine with fixed sights a little bit of regular practice.

[Matt85]

the issue is i intend to use 5 different kinds of ammo in this pistol. 38 special, 38 special +P, 38 special BP, 357 mag, and 357 mag BP. i really doubt these will have similer points of impact. the main cartridge used will likely be 38 special BP as i have about 1000 once fired 38 special brass and around 40 pounds of BP.

-matt

[44Vaquero]

Matt, I don't want to rain on the parade, but Adjustable factory sights are seldom designed for dialing back and forth as you are suggesting. Repeat ability is an issue, some do have click adjustments some do not. S&W had a hunter sight a few years back that allowed for the front sight to be dialed back and forth for height and the settings even had Alpha# markings.

But I think dialing back and forth between different loads without re-zeroing, may more then most factory sights were designed for.

[Lloyd Smale]

matt even windage can be adjusted either by filing the side of the blade or by clamping your gun in a gun vise and turning the barrel ever so slightly. Little bit of trial and error but its not rocket science. If you try enough loads your bound to find one that shoots to point of aim unless your front sight is tipped (which ive seen on new rugers) but theres no guarantee that the load that shoots to poa is going to be an accurate load. Best advice i can give is shoot the snot out of it without doing a thing. Do all your load developement and find your best load and then shoot it a good ammount to make sure its the load you want to stick with before you even touch those sights. Ive done it to many times. Filed for a load and found another load later that i wish i had my sight height back. Or just getting old and wanting to back off the power level on some guns and again find i have my blades filled to low. When you go to file one GO SLOW. It takes very little metal removal to move your poa.

[9.3X62AL]

Having a Bisley Blackhawk in 357 Magnum with the adjustable sights could be near-perfect for the O/P. Most of my shooting with it involves Doug Wesson-level loadings--Lyman #358156 running at 1450 FPS (or above). I don't often move the sights--this load is its "sighted-in" setting, and when I run this same boolit at 1550 FPS or a bit more, the point-of-aim doesn't vary much at 25 or 50 yards. It never sees 38 Special casings, and only seldom sees 38 Special load intensities put up in 357 brass.

I'm a frequent shooter and user of fixed-sight service pistols and revolvers, and they don't give up much to their adjustable-sighted cousins. These seem to be "regulated" for standard-weight bullets running at "standard" velocities, and generally a change in bullet weights will cause more downrange variance than does a change in bullet velocities. E.G., I have 2 fixed-sight revolvers in 32-20 WCF.......a Colt Bisley SAA x 4-3/4", and a S&W M&P x 5". Run 115-120 grain cast boolits from either one at 875-900 FPS, and both will print right where the sights are looking. Same story with a newer S&W Model 10 x 5" in 38 Special--run a 158 grain casting at 825-850 FPS, and LOOK OUT, JACKRABBITS. POA = POI.

Let's keep in mind what a fixed-sight service sidearm was intended to do. It was made to engage other people who posed a lethal threat, and people are taller than they are wide (in most cases). As a pragmatic matter, a service sidearm has a lot more "tolerance" vertically than it does horizontally. So if you want to change up bullet weights and/or velocities a bit, there is still some "wiggle room" left, and you're still likely to hit the bad guy in a place that will cause him to rethink his mode of contact. Hopefully, permanently.

After 35+ years of handgunning, a lot of that involving carrying sideiron in harm's way--adjustable sights are largely superfluous in my view. My hunting revolvers and a couple target autopistols have them, but I don't consider changeable sights all that important. My idea of the single-best general purpose sidearms ever birthed are both out-of-print......S&W's Model 581 and Model 58. 4", double-action, blued steel fixed-sight revolvers in the 2 best counter-hairball calibers ever created--the 357 and 41 Magnums. I wouldn't let the presence or absence of changeable sights dictate my sideiron preferences. Caliber, subjective feel, pointability--those are the ticket.

[Bullshop]

Fixed sights have no fangs to snag clothing and can be a life saver if the gun needs to be jerked out quickly and put into service. That point weighs heavily in a defensive handgun.
However in a purely sporting arm I prefer adjustable sights especially since for me always trying new loads is part of the fun.
Finding one load and staying with that seems to rob the fun I might be having in the search.

[Matt85]

this thread has certainly given me plenty of food for thought, thank you.

I should mention this pistol would be used for 95% target, 4% hunting, 1% self defense (all guns in my home qualify for self defense).

-matt

[9.3X62AL]

Adjustable handgun sights tend to give a "better" sight alignment and sight picture profile, with their square/flat aspects and stronger definition when superimposed upon or under a target. No doubt about that. My prejudices STRONGLY favor defensive and fighting roles of sideiron, and I should have emphasized those views more clearly.

[W.R.Buchanan]

What you want comes from Rugers distributors specials. Big outfits like Lipsey's commission all kinds of non standard Blackhawk and Bisley framed Rugers.

What it appears that you want is a SS Bisley Blackhawk with a 5.5" bbl. in .357... What is available in SS is either a 4.7 or 6.5 " bbl in the Standard Blackhawk configuration. You can buy the Bisley frame conversion from Brownells.

or,,,,

You can sell all those .38 hulls and step up to a .44 or .45 and you can get a SS Blackhawk Bisley with a 5.5" bbl.

Go here to see all the options for distributor exclusives. http://www.ruger.com/search/group/?cat=de

These SS guns all come with a removable front sight blade and an adjustable rear sight. The removable front sight allows you to install taller sight blades to cope with loads that shoot too high.

I once had 600 rounds of OF .357 cases that a friend gave me in boxes too boot. Instead of buying a .357 to shoot them I traded them for 300 .308 cases that I already had a rifle for .

However I did by a Glock 21/.45 acp specifically to shoot up all the .45 acp cases I had accumulated from the range. :mrgreen:

This is the best way to handle this situation, and you'll burn up 40lbs of powder much faster.

Randy

[Cosmiceyes]

I bought my Ruger Bisley Flattop with adjustable sights from Lipseys.Mine is Blued with rosewood grips 5 1/2 inch bbl."BUT" it is in 44 special.It shots cheap reloads from ammo brothers in a 8 inch group at 25 yards.As I have learned the more I shoot it the smaller the group will get.I just received my Lyman 429215 molds today so tomorrow is casting day.Shooting by Sunday.I am sure it will tame down to under 2 inches as 2400 powder seems to be more consistent in pistol loads.If you go to Ruger site they will show you who in the wholesale business may have made a adjustable sight 357.It was how I found the 44.

[prs]

Lloyd, when I adjust windage on an single action fixed sight Ruger, I file the rear sight "tunnel" slightly to the side. Takes very little and our eyes just naturally seek the middle of the gap to frame the front sight. Stainless steel receivers don't even reveal the work that has been done, blued receivers will need a touch-up.

prs

[W.R.Buchanan]

Cosmic: I too have a .44 BH Bilsey in .44 Spec. Mine came from Lipseys thru Williams Gun Shop Auburn Mi but it has got the 4.5/8 bbl.

Try 5.0 of W231 for a nice mild load with your new boolits. Also Lyman 431429 is a good boolit for this gun.

Randy

[Lloyd Smale]

Ive done it that way with stainless guns too.
Lloyd, when I adjust windage on an single action fixed sight Ruger, I file the rear sight "tunnel" slightly to the side. Takes very little and our eyes just naturally seek the middle of the gap to frame the front sight. Stainless steel receivers don't even reveal the work that has been done, blued receivers will need a touch-up.

prs

[DougGuy]

Matt, it's likely that one or maybe two of your loads might shoot to the sights if you had a fixed sight model, but no way all those will. I have a Vaquero in .45 Colt that shoots 5 loads to point of aim but they are all heavy hunting boolits with similar velocities, no plinkers here. I think an adjustable sight Bisley will be the bare minimum and if it were me, I would likely have two eventually, one with adjustable sights for some of the loads and one with fixed sights for BP.

I like the idea of swapping a Bisley grip, trigger, and hammer onto a Blackhawk to make the 5 1/2" barrel pistol, just because it would look cool and balance nicely.

[9.3X62AL]

One of my back-burner ideas for a time with more free time is to fit a Bisley grip frame onto my 30 Carbine Blackhawk. Once they become more available, I may be selling my Redhawk and acquiring a BisHawk in 44 Magnum to join the stable of BisHawks already on staff. I really like these revos.