Storage???

[mikeym1a]

I have been re-arranging my room, and throwing away pack-rat stuff, and generally making the area more livable. In doing so, I consolidated one of my storage boxes. I had some primers, powder, and loaded rounds, about 2 ea containers, per, in a plastic box with a tight snap lid, and it had a very strong odor, like you get when you opened an ammo can. I moved these items into a cardboard storage box so they can breath. Boolits, various reloading tools, dies, etc, are in another box. What about the box with the primers? There's not alot in there, but, the chemical smell when I opened the box surprised me. The powder cans (plastic) are tightly closed, in fact, one of them is still factory sealed, unopened. What would be the best way to store them? All my older powders and primers are in cardboard boxes in another room, and no smell from them. What to you guys and gals suggest?

[fredj338]

Leave primers in original packaging & store away from heat & moisture. IT's about that simple. NEVER store primers & powder together.

[dverna]

I store primers and powder in the containers they ship in and stacked on open shelves. Never had a problem - but then I do not have any components older than 15 years.

[jonp]

I don't switch the primers from the original sleeves. I store them on shelves where they are dry and the powder I leave in the original plastic container and don't have a problem with it. I posted a sort of experiment I have going with an opened can of H110 that is at my hunting camp. It sits on a shelf and is dry but cycles through temperature extremes of -40 to 90. It is about 15yrs old I'm guessing right now and I check it every year when I go home on vacation and load a few rounds for my 357 BH. Powder still looks and smells fine with no problems that I can see yet.

[LUCKYDAWG13]

why can't you store powder and primers together ?

[TMSCU]

Same reason you wouldn't want to store blasting caps with the dynamite.

[LUCKYDAWG13]

ok why not will they have a chemical reaction and self ignite
i'm not trying to be a smart *** but why not

[mikeym1a]

ok why not will they have a chemical reaction and self ignite
i'm not trying to be a smart *** but why not
I've heard that older blasting caps become unstable, and can go off with a jar, and if they are in the same room as the dynamite, EXCITING things happen.

So, how far apart do you you store the powder and primers??

[dverna]

why can't you store powder and primers together ?


I store them on the same shelving unit. I see no reason to separate them.

One thing to be aware of is that most jurisdictions limit powder to 50 lbs if stored in a wooden box with 1" boards. Primers are limited to 10,000 in one location. I have a lot more than that but do not store them in the house. It would too easy for the insurance company to deny a claim if I had a fire.

[LUCKYDAWG13]

I've heard that older blasting caps become unstable, and can go off with a jar, and if they are in the same room as the dynamite, EXCITING things happen.

So, how far apart do you you store the powder and primers??

i store them both in a mini refrigerator not plugged in just like the air tight seal
is this a bad idea ?

[Mal Paso]

i store them both in a mini refrigerator not plugged in just like the air tight seal
is this a bad idea ?

Might put a box of Silica Gel in there to keep humidity down. Just regenerate (heat in oven)) it every few months.

[LUCKYDAWG13]

yes i have one in there

[mroliver77]

I have 1000 primers stored with approx 6lbs of powder, 1000 cases and 1000 projectiles all in the same ammo box. lol
Do a search on powder and/or primer storage. There have been lots of tests done on it for years. Lots of laws pertaining to storage too.
J

[jonp]

The biggest reason to not store them together is insurance. If there is a fire one might cause the other to explode leaving insurance companies to.deny part or all of yhe claim. Also it is a hazard to firefighters. Static electricity could cause them to explode also. I find all of this hard to believe but thats what my ins agent said. You might want to check local regs on amounts. My jurisdiction is silent on this but if there is a limkt then you can be denied outright for a claim

[ku4hx]

I just follow the SAAMI recommendations. Started doing that circa 1970 and saw no reason to change. Loosely constructed wooden boxes are easy to build and they're cheap. I have several of various sizes built as my involvement expanded.

[Whiterabbit]

ok why not will they have a chemical reaction and self ignite
i'm not trying to be a smart *** but why not

Risk management. Any company will train their guys in it whos guys may be exposed to job hazards.

Classifying any work or result will have an associated risk involved. High, medium, low. But how to pick that? Well, you have two components. The probability of an adverse result, and the ramification of that adverse result. Jay walking is not likely to result in police citation, and if it did, getting that citation is not likely to be much beyond a slap on the wrist. Not much risk.

Storing powder and primers together? Not likely to spontaneously combust. Not likely to ignite. The risk is greater than zero, but it's REALLY unlikely. That's a LOW risk. But considering the ramifications should that unlikely situation happen? Well, the consequences represent a VERY HIGH risk! I'd hate to have one lb of contained powder go up in my garage. Average the two, and storing powders and primers together represent a roughly "medium" risk.

Most companies up to OSHA standards do not accept medium risks without using PPE of some sort. So if we live at home under such safety standards (and it is not unreasonable to do so), then we can either buy or build some reasonable PPE so that we can safely store primers and powder together to bring the risk to "low". OR, we simply store them away from each other, seeing as that is far cheaper.

[trixter]

I bought some Federal LRP and the packaging is not ideal for my storage area, so I put about half of them in a pill bottle, the rest fit in the storage box just fine.

Opinions? On the pill bottle storage, they do not get moved around and the storage box is air tight.

[Hickory]

ok why not will they have a chemical reaction and self ignite
i'm not trying to be a smart *** but why not

A lot of things in life operates on the 300-3-1 rule.
The 300-3-1 rule is this;

You can do something 300 times and get away without losing neither life or limb.
You can do it 3 times and it will almost get you.
And there is that one time when it gets you.

[mikeym1a]

Might put a box of Silica Gel in there to keep humidity down. Just regenerate (heat in oven)) it every few months.
What do you mean?

[mikeym1a]

What do you mean?

That was unclear. What do you mean 'regenerate'?

[Artful]

The Silica Gel Pack absorbs moisture but after awhile it can't absorb any more, to regenerate you put in a oven on low heat which drives out the moisture it has absorbed so it's ready to be put back on the job.

[Bad Water Bill]

I have some S gell that is about 40 year old. Most gell has Blue indicator beads mixed in. As the moisture content increases the blue beads slowly change colors. Mine goes to pink.

Spread evenly on a cookie sheet and placed in an oven set at about 130 degrees will drive off the moisture and the pink beads return to blue. Your time in the oven will vary every time so just watch the color change.

Others may have different ways of drying this but I haven't enough time left to spend another 40 years trying something else.

If it ain't broke etc.:bigsmyl2:

[Mal Paso]

Good Answers!

Wish I had this kind of backup in real life!

[jonp]

The silica beads I have in my safe also are blue and turn pink when saturated. I also put them into the oven and when they turn blue again they are ready to go.

[b2948kevin]

I have the same. These are really good.

Of course, living in Nevada helps also :)

[jcameron996]

I bought some Federal LRP and the packaging is not ideal for my storage area, so I put about half of them in a pill bottle, the rest fit in the storage box just fine.

Opinions? On the pill bottle storage, they do not get moved around and the storage box is air tight.

Storing primers in something other that their original packaging is a bad idea. Placing them loose in something like a pill bottle is a very bad idea. Even if they don't get moved around a lot it is an accident waiting to happen. If you were to drop that pill bottle while moving it they could very easily detonate. I read in a previous thread about a barrel full of primers detonating on a train car that left very little that was recognizable in the immediate area.

[mikeym1a]

Regenerate? Oh, you meant the silica gel. Had to change that in the instrument systems, part of the pitot-static system when in AF. The shop had a 20 gal bucket cut in to and hinged. The pink silica gel was dumped in with the rest, and the lid closed. There was a light bulb on all the time, and that dried out the silica get. Neat stuff.

[Springfield]

I got an old side by side refrigerator for free. I put the powder in one side and the primers in the other, and it is stored outside of my main house. So now they are in an airtight container that is insulated(and locked), with some damp-rid containers in there to keep the moisture level low. And the primers are separated from the powder. My Blackpowder I store in a different container, a cheap steel toolbox lined with wood to make it more spark free. Also locked. Also not in my house or garage.

[Bad Water Bill]

When I first started reloading I asked the local police what setup they used for their powder and primers.

"We took a discarded refrigerator and installed 3/4 plywood on 5 sides and a 3/4" hinged door that fit across the front. All of the shelves were 3/4 as well. they said it would be almost impossible to to reach combustible temps inside due to all of the insulation there. Well so far I have never had to find out if they lied to me. I did add a couple more fridges over the years tho.

[alamogunr]

I think I would fabricate something that would hold the primers in their original container.

If you are stuck with the pill bottle, ask your pharmacist if he has any of those little
desiccant hickey's that are sometimes packed inside bottles of drugs. They can't be regenerated but maybe you can get enough to keep extras in an airtight container and throw the ones away that have been with the primers after about 3-4 months.

I use crystal cat litter as a desiccant. It doesn't have the chemical to turn from blue to pink and you have to use more but it is super cheap comparatively speaking.

I also have the other kind and use a small amount as a control. When it turns pink, I throw out the cat litter and replace it. The control just gets baked until it turns blue again.

[Lizard333]

Funny thing about storing primers and powder together. Those that say its a bad idea, Isn't that exactly what your doing with loaded ammo? I usually store mine by the thousands together.

Back to the OP, your probly fine. I've shot powders and primers that have been outside, in the rain, over the course if an entire year. Granted, I live in a desert and the amount of rain I get compared to some is a great deal less. My temperature extremes are from -15 to 95. Point is, powders and primers can handle quite a bit of abuse before they become useless.

[mikeym1a]

Funny thing about storing primers and powder together. Those that say its a bad idea, Isn't that exactly what your doing with loaded ammo? I usually store mine by the thousands together.

Back to the OP, your probly fine. I've shot powders and primers that have been outside, in the rain, over the course if an entire year. Granted, I live in a desert and the amount of rain I get compared to some is a great deal less. My temperature extremes are from -15 to 95. Point is, powders and primers can handle quite a bit of abuse before they become useless.
Wasn't concerned with degradation. I've powders and primers that are over 30 years old, and still look and smell good. I was just concerned about the 'chemical' smell from the closed container. Somewhere I have an ammo box with a bunch of loaded round (j-words), and everytime I open it, I get that smell. They always shoot fine. I guess I just found the odor offensive. I do like the idea of the side by side fridge. Seems useful, and it would be a good thing if the insurance co looked too close.....

[dudel]

I use a mini fridge for powder and plastic ammo cans for primers.

The fridge is on a furniture dolly in the event it needs to leave FAST.

If I want to get them out in a hurry, I don't want to be grabbing at bricks of primers or cans of powder.

[badbob454]

Funny thing about storing primers and powder together. Those that say its a bad idea, Isn't that exactly what your doing with loaded ammo? I usually store mine by the thousands together.

Back to the OP, your probly fine. I've shot powders and primers that have been outside, in the rain, over the course if an entire year. Granted, I live in a desert and the amount of rain I get compared to some is a great deal less. My temperature extremes are from -15 to 95. Point is, powders and primers can handle quite a bit of abuse before they become useless.

i agree completely i have dried out primers in a 55 gallon drum and used them with no failure to fire ,i store my new primers in original containers , plastic trays with a cardboard wrap , and i place them next to my powder in metal original cans 12-14'' apart in my full size fridge in my insulated garage , the powder and primers keep a fairly constant temp of 50-70 degrees i open it sometimes on a hot dry summer day to dry out as i use no dessicant , this work good for me as i live in the arrid foothills of the west coast ( kalifornia ) i had some powder stored in a tupperware covered storage bowl and somehow it wicked up moisture ,it was however in a damp storage shed on earth floor covered with plywood but 2 hrs in the sun and it all dried out nicely...as far as a chemical smell.... they ARE chemicals , so i dont worry , i have shot 8 mm turkish ammo that was made in 1933 99% of those would fire no problem now mind you the powder and primers are 80 years old ... so i feel my storage is good enough

[bangerjim]

Those little packets of "Do Not Eat" crystals you find in everything from friggin China are Silica gel that absorbs moisture. Heating them up will drive the moisture out.

Here in the SW USA we do not know what moisture is! HA....ha.


bangerjim

[Artful]

Those little packets of "Do Not Eat" crystals you find in everything from friggin China are Silica gel that absorbs moisture. Heating them up will drive the moisture out.

Here in the SW USA we do not know what moisture is! HA....ha.


bangerjim

We do too - it's the stuff rung out of your body by the heat!

[dondiego]

We were shooting at some refrigerators last Saturday and the insulation caught on fire and burned with tall red flames and thick black smoke for quite a while. I was surprised that the refrigerators burned so well! This was at the Southern Ohio Machinegun Shoot. Tracers and incendiaries.

[Bad Water Bill]

They must have repacked or soaked them.

Every fridge I have seen had sheet metal interior and exterior with lots of fiberglass packed between the two boxes.

I have one in the house over 50 years old and it is built the same way as the one I bought last year.

Perhaps they loaded them with 5 gal can of diesel fuel for effect.:bigsmyl2:

[dondiego]

No, these refrigerators were newer with water dispensers and they hadn't been modified or soaked. They burned up just like the fiberglass boats. I was surprised too.

[Bad Water Bill]

The water dispenser and ice maker materials are molded plastic IIRC and yes they will burn nicely.

[dondiego]

Bill - These refrigerators burned up from top to bottom except for the metal exterior. The insulation burned like rubber tires with a thick black smoke. The interior plastic burned as well. I know it sounds weird but this insulation was burning. I was there.

[alamogunr]

The insulation was probably expandable foam. It goes into the insulation cavity as a soupy liquid and immediately expands to fill the space and cures to a very light solid. It is usually a tan or brown color.

We used it 30+ years ago in air conditioners.

[dondiego]

Now that makes sense! I couldn't understand glass type insulation burning.