Is flaring the case mouth enough?

[jsteed]

I've reloaded a lot of 9mm and .38 spl just flaring the mouth, but have read that a die such as the "M" die is needed for reloading cast in rifle brass (30-30 & .35 cal).I'm useing Lee reloading dies and the Lee flaring die. Feedback please.

[r1kk1]

There are a ton of threads and a recent one on this. Do a search on case flaring, m-die, RCBS cowboy expander.

Take care

r1kk1

[L Erie Caster]

Standard rifle dies do not flare the case mouth. Flaring is needed for cast bullets, not for jacketed. Thus you must use some kind of flaring die with cast bullets in a rifle.

[prs]

Your pistol dies are already internal sizing the cases some via the powder through die. They are sized for copper condom projectiles, but many "get by" using it as for lead boolits too.

prs

[Possum]

I think a Lee flaring die is fine for rifle loads. I use it. Unless someone can tell you a reason it won't work, I would use that and keep my money in my pocket.

[MT Chambers]

The Lee die only flares, whereas the Lyman "M" die opens the case neck to provide predetermined case neck tension,as well as flaring, 2 very different things.

[Possum]

Good to know. Is there any problem loading using the Lee exp die? I am guessing when you use the lee you have a risk of re-sizing the bullet with the neck which could possibly lead to a deformed neck or bullet?

[462]

I am guessing when you use the lee you have a risk of re-sizing the bullet . . .

You guessed correctly.

[dromia]

"M" style expanding plugs for cast boolits to ensure proper boolit retention and avoid boolit deformation, they also help with boolit seating alignment.

Lee expander die and the "M" die are as different as apple and oranges.

Untill you know your boolit diameter in relation to your case mouth diameter you are only guessing at the tool you need.

[mdi]

"M" style expanding plugs for cast boolits to ensure proper boolit retention and avoid boolit deformation, they also help with boolit seating alignment.

Lee expander die and the "M" die are as different as apple and oranges
Untill you know your boolit diameter in relation to your case mouth diameter you are only guessing at the tool you need.

Yep, my thought too, jes a bit slower on the draw...

[Nickle]

I'll recommend the Lyman M2. Been using them for a while now, and I swear by them.

[Benjlan]

I have very good luck with the lee neck flaring die.

[Baron von Trollwhack]

FWIW, I have found that when using a "m" die you can learn to feel the difference in case neck tightness on cartridges like the 30-30 and 25-20 that have longer necks and are used with cast bullets generally seated at or below the case neck bottom. A few necks seem to be tighter on occasion. (and of course some few also feel looser than most).

It is not helpful to accuracy to expand a case neck, even partially, with a cast boolit. I'm speaking of rifle cartridges.

In addition I believe differing case neck tensions does affect boolit accuracy, insofar as start pressures are variable. The "m" die allows you to run the case back into the m die again if the neck tension feels to be more (because of springback) than most of the rest of the group of cases you are working with. A second use of the die provides a bit more uniformity with the majority of cases for those cases feeling too tight. It also on first usage indicates loose fit necks.

A noticeable difference in tensions, looser, tighter, and mid grade is suggestive of the need to anneal, which should bring most of the sized necks back into greater tension uniformity of metal hardness and springback, ready for "m" die use.

Then it is the use of a FCD that evenly crimps, that helps even more to equalise bullet start pressures when the cases have been annealed before loading, correctly expanded with an "m" die, and seated snugly without being sized by the seating itself.

BvT