Essex Arms (1911) 45 ACP and LEE 230 gr. (TL452-230-TC)

[spocter72]

Hello All,
I am new to this forum and fairly new to reloading. Please don't flame me for my ignorance because I don't know and please don't say read,because I read and research till I'm blue in the face. That is why I am here. Anyway, I have been reloading 357/38 for quite a while for revolvers with no issues, but have never tried a semi-auto as I am doing now with all kinds of problems. I know I should have a set of calipers,but I don't. I purchased LEE's TL452-230-TC 45 cal mold and made about 1000 boolits and lubed them up. Then prepared about same amount of cases and proceeded to attach them. I am only loading 7 at a time then testing. Did not assemble all. Right about now is where I think you might be laughing at me. I have them inserted just past the last lube line and I believe the length is pretty close to 1.275 inches with a mild crimp. Powder is rather hard to get , so I have to use what I have. I loaded them with .5cc's Herco and some with .5cc's unique. HERE IS THE PROBLEM: With 6 in clip and 1 in chamber,they will not feed, they hang up and if it does feed, gets hung up ejecting and it does this all the way to empty. I tried just a tad longer and just a tad shorter, same thing. The round nose boolits I have work flawlessly. I am sure you are used to more precise data from the get-go,but this is the best I know to explain it. I apologize. But if someone might have an idea for me BESIDES give it up, I am sure willing to listen. I could send a picture of the boolit if that would help. Just have to figure out how to get it on here. Thank you all so much for taking the time to read this and have a great day....Len

[srtolly]

I just started using the same bullet. I seat at 1.270" and don't have any problems. I have gone as short as 1.255 and been ok.

[spocter72]

Thank you srtolly

[tomme boy]

Try to crimp it more. You really need something to measure with. Cheap calipers are about 7$ Go get one.

You need 0.470"-0.472" at the crimp. Also seat them just below the taper. Leave about the thickness of your thumbnail of a ridge.Try that. Also, take out your barrel and drop the shell into it. If it is flush with the hood, it should be good to go. If it sticks up, find out why.

[Artful]

OK, you got a good mold - I use a similar 230 TC boolit - one of the things you can do is look at your factory loads for one that's loaded with a bullet that's shaped like your Boolit - you can then use the factory round to adjust your reloading die - (you have shot this shaped bullet before with factory - right?).

Back off your seating stem - back off your die - put a factory round in your shell holder and raise your ram to the top - screw down the die until it's firmly on the loaded round - then screw in the seating stem until it's in firm contact with nose of the factory bullet - this will set you crimp and Over All Length of loaded rounds to factory spec's. Now use the Jam Nuts to lock the die and seating stem into those positions. Remove the factory round and start testing your ammo with new settings. Hope this helps and welcome to the group.

My 230 TC works well in all of these...
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v355/rowdyfisk/FAL/P1020211.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/rowdyfisk/media/FAL/P1020211.jpg.html)

[srtolly]

Tomme boy is right, if you don't have a caliper, get one, a necessary item for reloading. Also the barrel test is good, I always have one handy when I reload .45.

1.255 put me right on the edge of the top land of that bullet. Only flare enough to get the bullet in, then just a kiss of a roll crimp.

Also check the magazine and make sure its in spec at the lips, sorry, I'm at work and can't get them till tomorrow.

[spocter72]

Artful,
Thank you for the reply..YUP.did that and went through with no problem. Shot about 25 and all loaded with no problem. Only had 1 that did not eject properly. Do you think .5cc is a good load for unique..ie..more or less? And I will get a set of calipers as tomme boy suggested. Thank you guys/gals very much.

[Love Life]

You may need to play with the powder charge a bit. Do you have a scale yet or just the dippers? Or is it a auto disk measure and you are just going off the chart? If no scale I have a set of dippers and I can weigh out some dips of unique for you so you know where you are powder wise.

Or you could have a jacked up ejector...

[Artful]

Do you have a scale?
http://www.leeprecision.com/cgi-data/instruct/Dippers.pdf

per Lee's chart 4.6 grains should be what a level .5 CC dipper should drop of Unique the .7 CC should drop 6.4 grains of Unique

Different lots of powder will weigh different amounts by volume - you need a scale.

One of the reasons Lee dippers have a reputation for being safe is seldom do I get a full load by weight that matches their chart.

Alliant - makers of Unique has load data
http://www.alliantpowder.com/reloaders/RecipeList.aspx?gtypeid=1
their loads for different 230 grain pills vary between 5.8 and 6.5 grains of Unique - so I'd say .5 CC is going to be on the light side.

If you have a friend with a scale you can make your own dipper just trim container (old case for example) to hold the correct amount of your lot of powder.
73750
Dipping can be fast and accurate once you develop good technique.

[spocter72]

Yes, I have a scale and the dippers. I rarely use the scale but probably should start. Could me being on the low side with the powder be causing the ejection problem? Now and then,the shell wont eject to the point where it leaves the gun. Thank you much

[srtolly]

For that bullet I went with data from Lee. 5.6gr of unique has worked well for all my .45s. Keep in mind I'm no expert but this works for me.

[spocter72]

Well, I have a pretty primitive scale, but the way I am reading it,it appears that a .7cc dipper contains 5.4 gr. Does this sound like it could be right or might I be reading it wrong? Thank you..Len

[Artful]

Too light a charge on a self loader will cause failure to eject and failure to feed problems.
Tough to tell over the internet - got a picture?

[spocter72]

Ummm not really at the moment. When it happens again, I will put a picture up for you. Is it possible the .7cc dipper could weigh 5.4 gr.? I might be reading it wrong. I bought this about 20 years ago and is not digital. Working on getting a digital one as we speak. Thank you...Len

[Artful]

What's the make / model of your scale?

[spocter72]

I believe it is a Redding. It is red in color There are no markings on the scale itself, but I found a piece of paper with a picture of it on it and it is a Redding paper. Sorry, no model # or anything like that. It looks like this one only red....http://www.reloadersnest.com/eq_powder_scale_detail.asp?ItemID=2 I hope that was ok to do. If not,I apologize and please delete. Thank you

[Artful]

Does it look like this?
http://www.natchezss.com/images/products/RB02000.jpg
You know how to zero it - right?
you have a check weight - right?
the Long are is moved to 5 and the short side has 4

[35remington]

Correct overall length for the 230 TC in most 1911's is in the vicinity of 1.220." 1.275" is the do not exceed length. The longest overall lengths found in 45 ACP is in 230 ball FMJRN ammo which is in the vicinity of 1.260-1.265."

A good standard velocity duplication of 230 factory ball ballistics can be had with 6 grains Unique using the TC bullet at the suggested 1.220" overall length.

If you don't have calipers at least get a cheap harbor freight pair. Make sure the case mouth is taper crimped to remove all case mouth flare. Only enough to turn in the flare suffices, but a midrange case mouth measurement of around .471" ensures shortish as well as average cases get deflared.

[spocter72]

Yes, It pretty much looks like that one. I have it zero'd. Everything is on zero. When I put .7cc dipper of powder on tray,large weight on left is on 5 and small weight on rt is on 7th slot before the 1. I am guessing that is 5.7 gr from .7cc dipper. Would this be right and would that be a safe load for the 230 gr.?

[Artful]

Hmm .7 should be 6.4 but 5.7 wouldn't be out of the realm of possibility I guess - and yes 5.7 would be a safe load.

[spocter72]

Well just loaded up 6 and test fired.EXCELLENT!! Everything worked great and feels and sounds like it used to. Thank you very much..Len

PS And learned quite a bit too...Thats the great part

[Artful]

Excellent

[Love Life]

I'm glad you got everything worked out and I suspected too low of a charge. As for safe loads...do you have a reloading manual?

[spocter72]

Yes, I have quite a bit of literature for powders,reloading, etc. Biggest problem was this is my first time reloading auto rounds. Was a bit skiddish and needed real knowledge for this one. You guys rock!! I sure do appreciate all the quick help. Thank you all very much

[spocter72]

Excellent
Thank you Artful

[Love Life]

Enjoy shooting!! I'll be headed to the range here shortly!

[Artful]

Your welcome, self loading guns can be more picky than manually operated ones - you sort of have to keep in mind that your after duplicating what the gun was designed around. The 1911 design is way less picky than some other designs like the Luger pistol. If your looking for a second mold for your 1911 look at the SWC in 200 grains - H&G 68 or 452460 from lyman are good choices. Unique is a great medium burning pistol powder (a little smokey but then so are cast boolits) and should be able to load a large range of boolits.

[spocter72]

Your welcome, self loading guns can be more picky than manually operated ones - you sort of have to keep in mind that your after duplicating what the gun was designed around. The 1911 design is way less picky than some other designs like the Luger pistol. If your looking for a second mold for your 1911 look at the SWC in 200 grains - H&G 68 or 452460 from lyman are good choices. Unique is a great medium burning pistol powder (a little smokey but then so are cast boolits) and should be able to load a large range of boolits.
Hey Artful, what do you think of Herco? I have a couple of pounds of that also. Think it is ok for .357 and.38 as well as .45ACP? Just wondering what your thoughts are on that powder. BTW, I just ordered a new digital scale and set of digital calipers that will hopefully make my reloading a whole lot easier. Thank you again for all your help...Len

[Artful]

Herco is a fluffier slower burning powder than Unique - it has limited uses in 45 ACP (6.4 grains with 230 grain boolit would be about right)
- generally better saved for magnum pistol cases or shotshell loading.

[spocter72]

Herco is a fluffier slower burning powder than Unique - it has limited uses in 45 ACP (6.4 grains with 230 grain boolit would be about right)
- generally better saved for magnum pistol cases or shotshell loading.
Thank you