Can anyone recommend a long-range sight for a Marlin 1895 Cowboy?

[wellfedirishman]

I have a Marlin 1895 Cowboy (26 inch octagon barrel) that I'd like to try some long-range shooting with, 200-500 yard silhouette with Trapdoor-level loads.

I want a common cowboy-level load for use in an original Trapdoor, an Italian Sharps, and the 1895, I am thinking a 350 grain cast bullet with 16 grains of Trailboss.

The Marlin quickly runs out of elevation with this load, so I need a recommendation for a tang sight that fits the Marlin screw pattern, probably a medium-range size tang sight.

I was thinking something like this:
http://www.trackofthewolf.com/Categories/PartDetail.aspx/883/1/RS-CREED-3-WE

If anyone has a used Marlin tang sight they want to part with let me know.

[Rooster59]

Be selective when obtaining a tang sight for the 1895 series. The bolt is very long with a very long stroke. As such, most tang sights like the one you linked will be hit by the bolt when cycling the action. they are designed for single shot rifles with no bolt to move rearward and contact the sight.

Take a look at the vernier sights montanavintagearms.com or the economy soule sights at leeshavergunsmithing.com . Both companies make tang sights with bases suitable to mount the staff far enough rearward to avoid the bolt making contact with the staff.

Even if you don't mind folding the staff backwards to cycle the action every time some of the available tang sights may still make contact with the sight.

[wellfedirishman]

Thanks Rooster. Looks like the tang sights I am seeing there are fairly expensive. I had forgotten about the long bolt throw on the 1895.

I may just go with a Lyman side-mount peep 66LA as that would give me sufficient elevation, or a Williams equivalent.

[TheCelt]

Instead of a tang sight why don't you look at the original equipment "ladder" sights sold by Buffalo Arms??? It is the sight that came on the original 1895 Marlin and has enough elevation to shoot farther than I can see.

http://www.buffaloarms.com/Smith_Enterprise_Sights_it-164014.aspx?CAT=4077

[Rooster59]

I just put an MVA #108 on my CB. You're right about cost. My piggy bank is pretty scrawny after that acquisition.

Depending on your intended ranges, a receiver peep like the Lyman or Williams FP should get you out pretty far. Both the Lyman and FP are good. I prefer the FP equipped with target adjustment knobs and gib lock screws. It is click adjustable also.

You can get the knob style gib lock screws from Brownells. Makes adjustments fast and tool-free.

[Walter Laich]

Put a Marbles on my 1895. Just misses the bolt. Did have to get the tang tapped. Went with original rather than the new improved one. As soon as I retrain my thumb to stay on the side of the stock I'll be totally in love with it.

[Rooster59]

Walter,
How much elevation do you get out of the Marble's tang?

[saguaro]

You can always put a shorter front sight on it if you still are running out of elevation with the Marbles.

Saguaro

[Rooster59]

Good point Saguaro. I changed out my stock .500" Marbles for a Skinner blade that is now filed down to .300" and it may get a little lower. It helped lower the 50yd zero on my MVA by almost 15MOA.

To go that low will require complete removal of the stock Marbles barrel sight.

[W.R.Buchanan]

I have a Williams Receiver sight mounted on my CB, but it is only on there until I find a Lyman for it. Also my gun is not D&Ted for the side mount but it is a pretty easy operation to do and I did it one my 1894 CB.44 when I got it. It also has a Williams but will be replaced someday too.

There is a world of difference between the Williams and Lyman sights. The Williams sights are fine if you leave them set but if you want to move them frequently they just don't repeat like the Lyman sights do.

The Williams sights were designed to be a less expensive alternative to the Lyman sights. They are made from aluminum which machines easier than steel. However the Lyman design has an inherantly better clamp system than the Williams, and it repeats perfectly.

I have one on my Marlin 39A I use this gun to shoot Rimfire Silhouette at ranges from 25 to 100 yards. One full turn of the knob is 3 MOA and that is the obtainable by either turning the knob one full turn or slipping the elevation Screw/Nut and just moving the sight up 3MOA on the scale, and when you re engage the nut the screw indexes perfectly every time. I could go 3 MOA + 1 click which would be 3.25 inches at 100 yards. When you slip the nut again to return to the base setting if you don't go back one click first the screw will engage at 1/4" high.

There is also a stop screw that insures that all you have to do is slip the nut and push the sight down to the stop and you are back at base zero, as long as you are at zero on the elevation knob as well.

There is alot more to Lyman sights than meets the eye. They are very precise devices. The new Aluminum ones are junk even though they are similar in design to the original steel ones. They just won't last if they are moved frequently.

Like I said there is nothing wrong with the Williams ones as long as you leave them set for one elevation. I have two, and both have the knobs and the knob on the gib. Neither of mine will repeat to their base setting very well. I never get the windage back after moving the elevation. The slide just doesn't go back in the same place every time, and I always have to make corrections to the windage after movng the slide up or down.

People don't realize that a few thousandths of difference in position equals an inch at 100 yards. If you move the Lyman sight 1 click in any direction the group moves 1/4" in that direction and you can count on it doing it again next time.

A regular 66LA has 45 MOA of vertical adjustment. That's 45" high at 100 yards and 225" at 500 yards. I think that is just about right for the .45-70. That's 18.75 feet of possible vertical adjustment. I seem to remember reading somewhere that the .45-70 with 405 gr boolits had a midrange of @ 18 feet when shot at 500 yards.

Too bad the company won't make them like they used to. They'd sell alot of them, and damn sure more than the sell now.

Randy

[Rooster59]

Better check your 45-70 load on a ballistics calculator. My load similar to the original BP loading has a trajectory closer to 50' for 500yds.

[Scharfschuetze]

See below.

[Scharfschuetze]

I have an old Lyman steel base Model 66 on my Marlin 26" 1895. W.R. is spot on with his praise of the Lyman sight. I have them on several Marlins and they are are sterling sight and the only sight that I liked better was the old Redfield receiver sight that is now only found at gun shows on rare occasions. My experience with the tang sights like the Williams for lever guns is that they are often hard to repeat for various range's zeros, although they are much more traditional looking and do extend your sight radius by a couple of inches. I do like the looks of the Marbles, but I've not used one of those.

I often shoot my Marlins out to 200 yards at my local range and by noting the MOA come ups of each load at each range I can return to each range's zero quickly and accurately. Back home in Wyoming I shot them way out there and the 45/70 performs quite well from a solid sitting or prone position although it is more wind sensitive compared to some of the smaller-more-modern calibers.

I posted this info on the Lyman 66 sight in another thread, but it may be of some help here if you decide to go the way of the Lyman. Instead of retyping it, please forgive me for a copy and paste job.

1. One click equals 1/4 MOA on average. Sight radius is the determining factor in your exact deflection per click
2. One turret rotation equals 3 MOA and thus 12 1/4 MOA clicks per revolution
3. One mark on the elevation and windage scales equals 3 MOA or one rotation of the turrets
4. The range scale and deflection scale have a set screw.
5. Once you zero your rifle, loosen the screw and slip the scale so that it reads "0" at the witness line
6. You can also slip the turrets to read "0", but I don't bother with that as my zeros seem to change a little bit from day to day depending on light, temperature and how much coffee I drink
7. The longer your sight radius, the finer the adjustments will be and conversely, a short barrel will exaggerate each adjustment. If you want the math behind this, let me know.
8. Once zeroed and with the sight reading "0" you can then quickly adjust for wind and range and then return to your base zero.
9. You can also use the push button on the base of the 66A for fast range adjustments. Your MOA elevation scale is of value here. If your rifle drops 9 MOA from 100 to 300 yards, push the button and lift the sight bar 3 range lines or 9 MOA. You can also turn the elevation turret three rotations up and end up at the same place as far as your sight bar elevation.

Older Lyman sights from before our time have 4 MOA turrets. Lyman used to make a "Long Slide" sight for bolt rifles, but I don't think the Model 66 has ever had one. Too bad as a 45/70 could really use the long slide for long range shooting beyond 500 yards or so.

[Jon K]

MVA or Baldwin, and don't look back...you won't be sorry.

Jon

[Rooster59]

Wow those are nice sights. I have to say I don't know why a rear sight can cost $200 to $300 when the whole rifle can be $300, or $400 or more depending on what rifle/caliber. But $200 to $300 for metallic sights is expensive.

They are expensive, but if after shooting with a shorter, and cheaper tang sight you get bitten harder by the long range bug you will end up with one of the more expensive sights later. I have tended to be one of the people who go with "good enough" initially then suffer the consequences further into the process. This time I decided to fore go the intermediate step and just pay the full price up front. For some the standard tang sights are all they ever need/want. I just know that this time I will definitely be in it for the long hall and I'd end up with the MVA sooner or later.

Hope your decision gets you where you want to be.

Jeff

[49Reo]

I have a Marlin 1895 Cowboy (26 inch octagon barrel) that I'd like to try some long-range shooting with, 200-500 yard silhouette with Trapdoor-level loads.

I want a common cowboy-level load for use in an original Trapdoor, an Italian Sharps, and the 1895, I am thinking a 350 grain cast bullet with 16 grains of Trailboss.

The Marlin quickly runs out of elevation with this load, so I need a recommendation for a tang sight that fits the Marlin screw pattern, probably a medium-range size tang sight.

I was thinking something like this:
http://www.trackofthewolf.com/Categories/PartDetail.aspx/883/1/RS-CREED-3-WE

If anyone has a used Marlin tang sight they want to part with let me know.
I installed a Lyman #2 tang sight on my 1895 CB with good results. The bolt clears it, (just) it works well, don't know how far out it can reach, as I haven't tried it much, (maybe this weekend) but might mount a Lyman globe on the front, using the lowest one they make. I put one on my H&R BC and got much more range from it.

Regards,

[hightime]

As hard as mine seems to kick, I can't imagine having the tang sight so close to my eye.

[ebner glocken]

My 1895CB wears a williams FP rear and a lyman globe front. You're right the lowest one they make works.

Ebner

[crossbow2]

I thought Skinner made a "ladder sight" for the Marlin levers ?.

[Rooster59]

Skinner produced an initial prototype of a flip up ladder peep a few years ago but it hasn't been produced for sale.

[stepmac]

My original 1895 has its original buckhorn rear sight and bead front. They are very fine sights and even in my old age I can still see them about as well as I could a peep. So I'm happy with them. I feel privileged to own the rifle, which cost me a few beans. The bore is pretty nice, and I have just started reloading for it. It is a 45/70. I am planning to shoot 350 grain cast bullets using smokeless at first. If the rifle shoots okay I'll load BP and shoot it in competition.

I had an original Win '76 stolen 25 years ago and have yearned to replace it since that black day. When I stumbled across this 95 Marlin I was overjoyed because it is an even better shooter than the Winchester was and the two rifles feel about the same. I am sure the Marlin is a much stronger rifle and probably made of better steel too. It is marked "Marlin Steel" on the top of the receiver.

I shoot the heavy bullet in my Trapdoors. I'm hoping that the lighter cast bullet shoots okay in the Marlin.

[trapdoor1873]

I just put my MVA Midrange Soule on my 1895. Ended up using a Winchester 94 Legacy base. The bolt is all the way back in the photo. 84456

[snaketail]

Last weekend I changed the tang sight on my 92. I had been using the recommended Marbles tang sight post (short) and the lowest possible front sight - and still shooting low. 60 clicks up at 50 yards (it only goes up 66 clicks). I changed to the "improved" sigh and the mid-range sight post. Now with the low front sight it is shooting high - will change the front sight back to the factory version.
With the low sight I was using a 6-O'clock hold at 50 yards and was dead on at 100 yards when bottoming out the adjustment. I have a Lever Action Silhouette match this weekend and will shoot without changing the front sight (can't make it back to the range before the match). I expect to "hold low" on the Pistol Cartridge chickens & pigs, but should be OK on everything else (shooting the same gun in Pistol Cartridge and Long Range).
I think the "Improved" sight base is going to resolve my problems. I'm shooting 255gr boolit in a .45 Colt at about 1250fps. Recoil - a bit, but the tang will go away from your eye, not toward it.
Michael

[oscarflytyer]

You can always put a shorter front sight on it if you still are running out of elevation with the Marbles.Saguaro

Alternative to a shorter sight. Actually get a tall/taller front sight. Then mark a couple white or gold horizontal lines across the blade. As your distance increases, "add" more front sight (into your sight picture), by lining up the rear sight even with one of the lower horizontal lines.

It is basically the same as using a real short sight, but you still have the tall sight for shorter distances. What we use for long range handgun shooting. Just keep "adding" front sight into your sight picture til you get your Kentucky elevation. Hope this makes sense...

[Chris C]

I just put an MVA #108 on my CB. You're right about cost. My piggy bank is pretty scrawny after that acquisition.

Depending on your intended ranges, a receiver peep like the Lyman or Williams FP should get you out pretty far. Both the Lyman and FP are good. I prefer the FP equipped with target adjustment knobs and gib lock screws. It is click adjustable also.

You can get the knob style gib lock screws from Brownells. Makes adjustments fast and tool-free.

+1................don't have one myself, but droolin' over the possibility. It's just one of those "must have" accessories if you shoot long range.

[Vstar950]

Good evening, I have installed a Skinner Ladder Sight on my Henry Brass Brass Wildlife edition 45-70. It is slightly higher than the factory buckhorn rear. Shooting a Laser Cast 300 GR. LFN at 1280 fps over 16.0 grains of Trailboss. At 200 yards with the ladder raised at it's lowest setting I'm getting center hits on an 11x18 gong. I might install a taller front sight, but the gold bead front just looks good. They run around 150.00 and the ladder has marks, but no yardage imprints. it's a beautiful piece of craftsmanship.

[warren5421]

I use a MVA #100 Long Range with a Lee Shaver New Style 17A Front Sight on a C.Sharps .45-70 and got a Marlin base to put on my 95. Had to tap the tang. The 95 front sight has been changed out for a Lee Shaver New Style 17A Front Sight. I exchange the MVA between the sharps and 95. I can get to a 1000 yards on the Marlin but can not shoot a heavy enough bullet to buck the wind like a 500gr-600gr bullet will. Around 500 yards the wind starts moving the 405gr trapdoor rifle round off target sometimes. At 150-200 yards a 3"-4" grouping is about the best my 75 year old eyes can do any more. With a 6X Parsons Scope in my younger days it could do a 10 shot group under 1" at 100 yards from the bench. The gun shots I just can't see good anymore.