Can't get Inserts in Globe Front

[ColColt]

I ordered some front sight inserts from Track of the wolf that got here today for my Sharps & Axtell(maybe a Stevens/Winchester) globe sight. The inserts are .035" thick as the slot in the globe is right at .040". They fit real well in the slot but the kicker is, I can't get the clamp that holds those inserts in and past the two bottom cutouts on the inserts. My thumb is sore from trying to push it past that point. Is there a trick to this or does those bottom left and right triangular cuts need to be filed? I hesitate doing that as I didn't want to go too far so that the clip won't hold them.

This is the globe, or one just like it...

http://www.trackofthewolf.com/Categories/PartDetail.aspx/875/2/FS-SHARPS-16A-450

The inserts are at the bottom left

http://www.trackofthewolf.com/List/Item.aspx/875/2

[Kermit1945]

I'd be on the fone to ToW about this one. It's their sight!

[country gent]

If you have a insert from the others measure and match them to the new inserts. Measure dia at several locations. A little bigger dia wont let htem set in right. Check for radiouses in corners matching to sharp square corners. Make sure the new inserts are flat. Does this sight have the clamp bar/spring on top? if so check to a tit from the holding stem in the card.Go slow measure everything and look carefully at what is what, look for bright spots on the one your installing also.

[ColColt]

Yep, it's got the clamp bar as pictured. I was assuming this was a drop in close clamp and be done with it,. I'd hate to drive the 18 miles to the range and try inserting the inserts there. What if I succeeded getting one installed at home and discovered I needed to change it out for a smaller or larger aperture insert while at the range and couldn't get it to fit? That's what I'd be facing so, it behooves me to get this nipped in the bud right now. I'm not sure of the problem but will look at the one I had that fit and see if there's much difference. Eye balling it there's none but they're tiny.

http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x220/ColColt/Gun%20Related%20Stuff/3431638_Sharps45-90_12_zps6c19f7d2.jpg (http://s180.photobucket.com/user/ColColt/media/Gun%20Related%20Stuff/3431638_Sharps45-90_12_zps6c19f7d2.jpg.html)

[ColColt]

None of the inserts I bought fit. I looked at the one I had that does and the radius at both ends look just like the new ones but upon close inspection it looks like it was filed on a bit with a triangular file. It fits tight in the slot with the clamp closed in. I think I've screwed up one of the new ones trying to file the radius a little with a triangular file as it now fits but is a little loose now. I don't know if I like this particular globe sight since it's a PITA to get the inserts to fit right. You shouldn't have to file them to fit.

[fouronesix]

Most all those type sights are similar so just guessing here but... make sure the clip is inserted the same way each time- there is usually an "up" side and a "down" side. The part of the clip that engages the insert is usually beveled so must go in the same way each time. Most inserts are die cut from very stiff, spring-like steel so filing may not be the best. A medium stone or better yet a diamond lap- like a thin EZE Lap will work better to dress the notch just enough for a friction fit of the clip.

[ColColt]

I found out the first time when I removed the clip to put a new insert in that it only goes back one way...flat side up with bevel angled out. These inserts just don't allow enough room for the clip to go past and through the cuts oin both sides. This is what the inserts look like and you can see where the trouble is at the angled cuts on the bottom left and right. Look at view #4.

http://www.trackofthewolf.com/Categories/PartDetail.aspx/875/1/FS-SHARPS-16A-450

[montana_charlie]

This is what the inserts look like and you can see where the trouble is at the angled cuts on the bottom left and right. Look at view #4.
Looking at View 4 doesn't help us. Looking at an insert that fits, and comparing it to one that doesn't fit ... now that would help us. But, you should be able to make that comparison yourself.

As a matter of fact, put an insert in the globe, shine a light in the groove, and look to see where the insert and globe body don't match. That's where the clip is hanging up on the insert.

CM

[fouronesix]

I found out the first time when I removed the clip to put a new insert in that it only goes back one way...flat side up with bevel angled out. These inserts just don't allow enough room for the clip to go past and through the cuts oin both sides. This is what the inserts look like and you can see where the trouble is at the angled cuts on the bottom left and right. Look at view #4.

http://www.trackofthewolf.com/Categories/PartDetail.aspx/875/1/FS-SHARPS-16A-450

It really isn't too complex. If your inserts have sprue tabs (most do)- use a stone and remove them. Then try not to ruin any of the inserts by filing on them or grinding on them with the wrong tool. Since they are likely identical once the sprue tabs are removed, first try JUDISCIOUSLY honing only the beveled edges of the "U" clip that holds them. That way each insert will be held in the globe the same way, in the same position and with the same amount of tension. Hone a little then check, hone a little then check... until you can push the U clip in most all the way and with a correct amount of tension-- but not so much that you have to pound it in or pry it out.

[ColColt]

The one on the right is the one that fits but it came with the sight. All the new ones I ordered are similar to the one on the left with the lollipop and you can see where the one on the right was filed to get it apparently to fit. The angled slots in the new inserts are too small and the clip is hampered from fully seating because those slots are not big enough.

http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x220/ColColt/Gun%20Related%20Stuff/_DEF4142_zps3ef09f01.jpg (http://s180.photobucket.com/user/ColColt/media/Gun%20Related%20Stuff/_DEF4142_zps3ef09f01.jpg.html)

[MT Chambers]

Well you are luckier then I, my clamp won't stay on and again, is spring steel...it usually falls off in my guncase, but soon I will loose it.

[fouronesix]

Got it- the photo is clear. Those inserts look like the thicker variety that won't have the sprue tabs. I think they're machined as a stack in a jig or fixture. Either way they should be identical to each other. You can tediously hone out the notches of each one or hone the U clip to fit the whole set. I'd carefully hone the U clip for best fit- thus ensuring each is held the same. That way the only one that may be a loose or mis-fit will be the original post insert.

[ColColt]

I think I need to look into another globe. I have 12 of these inserts as well as the others. They're only .010" thick whereby these I have that's giving problems are .035" but, I'm not wild about that clip either.

http://www.trackofthewolf.com/Categories/PartDetail.aspx/875/2/FS-SE-SL-INSERT

[huntrick64]

If you're looking for another globe, consider a baldwin front. The level is inside the globe and it comes with inserts that can be stacked to create a bolder outline on the front aperature if you need that.

[ColColt]

I'll take a look. Right now I'm looking at the MVA #113 Low Profile Globe and giving that some consideration. I did check out the Baldwin at BA but they say it's been discontinued.

[huntrick64]

ColColt - I sent you a PM

[Kermit1945]

Is there some reason you don't just fire them back to ToW for a refund? I see no reason to accept shoddy merchandise that won't do what it's sopposed to. They don't say it's a kit, do they?

[ColColt]

I've already written them about the ill fitting inserts. Hopefully they'll get back with me tomorrow. No kit, just a separate listing for the inserts.

[ColColt]

I got an email this morning from them about the insert problem...

"Depending on the individual sight clip, you may have to give them one or two strokes with a file."


Maybe I'm getting old but I wouldn't think you should have to alter with "strokes with a file" sight inserts.

[montana_charlie]

I got an email this morning from them about the insert problem...

"Depending on the individual sight clip, you may have to give them one or two strokes with a file."


Maybe I'm getting old but I wouldn't think you should have to alter with "strokes with a file" sight inserts.
You want inserts guaranteed to fit your sight? Buy them from the guy who made your sight.

Track of the Wolf didn't sell you the clip, or the sight. You don't even know (for sure) who made your globe sight.
There is no way they can guarantee their inserts will fit your sight/clip combination without some 'fitting'.
As a matter of fact, your situation is such that you can get a tight fit by not removing too much metal.
You would be in trouble if you needed to add metal to get them to fit without play.

Heck, it is not at all uncommon to have to do some fitting just to get a new globe sight to slip into the dovetail slot on a rifle ... even when the sight has the 'correct' dovetail for that brand of rifle.
I believe MVA states that their dovetails are three thousandths oversize ... just to allow them to be tightly fitted.

CM

[ColColt]

Very true, I didn't know who made it but asked them since it appeared to be a carbon copy of the one they sell called the FS-SHARPS-16A-450. I was told it was a WINCHESTER-AXTELL and they had the inserts for them. They measured .040" thick just like the only insert I had that came with the sight. I assumed they'd slide right in with the clip. Seeing the problem was due to the bottom right and left edges protruding and too small, I took a triangular needle file to open them up a bit so the clip would slide past and hold the insert in. I must have gone .001-.002" too far as one now fits but a bit loosely. I stopped at that point not wanting to mess up the other four that was sent.

[Gunlaker]

Do you know if the front sight is a repro or an original? I have to original 1885's, one made in 1893 and one a few years later. They both have original windgage sights. The inserts for each rifle vary significantly and can't be interchanged. Winchester didn't seem to standardize them back then.

Chris.

[ColColt]

It's a modern manufactured sight.

[huntrick64]

If you choose to go with a Baldwin front sight, here are the apertures that come with it. The .110 is in my sight at the moment. I bought a cheap ($2.00) wooden box at Hobby Lobby and put some slotted foam inside to keep these in. Holds them tight and keeps them organized.

Hope this helps.