Lyman 49: 30-06 / 7.62x54 R interchangability?

[makicjf]

I have often read and heard that load data for the venerable 30-06 and the 7.62x54R are essentially interchangeable. Lyman 49 is full of great cast data for various bullet weights and powder I have on hand ( imr 3031 and unique) and some surprising velocities for lead bullets. the 7.62x54R data has neither listed. I am hoping I can exchange the data. Is this true info ( 1-1 data exchange) or a wives tale?
Thanks,
Jason

[Mk42gunner]

In word, NO.

The .30-06 has more case capacity than the 7.62x54R. I would invest in another loading manual. To give further credence to my recommendation, Lyman's Cast Bullet Handbook, 4th Edition, has different data for the two cartridges.

Robert

[303Guy]

I would say there are several 'interchangeable' loads for dissimilar cartridges for cast boolits. Those might not be listed and may have different max loads but starting loads might be the same or may differ for minimum velocity and powder burn reasons. Some loads may be subsonic and so a max load would differ to keep the velocity below 1050fps Other loads may have different minimums to keep the velocity above the transition zone. But the middle loads could be the same.

[makicjf]

thanks guys. I realized the 30/06 was 7 mm longer in nominal oal and was not sure if it equated to case capacity.
thanks
jason

[ShooterAZ]

makicjf,

Read the sticky at the top of this section, titled "Cast Boolit loads for Military Rifles", posted by RobertBank. There are some "tried and true" loads listed there for both the 30-06 & 7.62X54R. I can tell you that 16 gr of 2400 with a 150-180 gr boolit shoots quite well in my MN. Also 10-12 gr of Unique. I have not tried the Red Dot load (13gr) in my MN, but I have in my 1903 Springfield. A lot of useful data in that article, check it out.

[makicjf]

thanks. I have read that a bunch, and even had a thread a year or so ago that I have printed. I do not have any 2400, but have 11 lbs of unique and 4 of imr 3031. Do ya'll think I could start at around 13 with unique and work up with 15 as the ceiling? I have the lee 185 1r . also have a 160 on the way. 1500-1600 with the unique load. I am hoping to generate a 2000fps ish load with the mn with the 185 as a pig load. The older thread Larry Gibson suggested starting at 24 of IMR 3031 and working up to best accuracy ( somewhere around 30 grains IMR 3031), Also suggested a 3/4 grain Dacron filler for best ignition. Must I use it ( I do not have any experience with fillers, and am a touch leary) or is it just an enhancer?.
the only manual I have that lists the 7.62x54 does not list either powder I have,
Jason

[fish0123]

This is from my Lyman 4th edition book:

N-133 (just a smidge slower than your 3031)

Lee C312-185-1R Starting load: 27.5 grn (1577 fps) Max load: 35.5 grn (2152 fps)

That should get you to your 2000 fps goal.

[Larry Gibson]

makicjf

The older thread Larry Gibson suggested starting at 24 of IMR 3031 and working up to best accuracy ( somewhere around 30 grains IMR 3031), Also suggested a 3/4 grain Dacron filler for best ignition. Must I use it ( I do not have any experience with fillers, and am a touch leary) or is it just an enhancer?.

The suggested loads are predicated on the use of the dacron filler. W/O the filler the start and max loads should be increased about 2 gr. The dacron filler "enhances ignition, lets the powder burn efficiently at low psi and negates the adverse affect of "powder positioning". Using a dacron filler is not dificult nor is it rocket science. Many make more out of it than is really there. Suggest you read my post #2 in the stickey; http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?109280-The-proper-use-of-fillers

Both the 7.62x54R and the '06 benifit greatly with the use of a dacron filler with medium burning powders under cast bullets, especially the lighter weight cast bullets.

Larry Gibson

[makicjf]

Thank you, Sir.
Jason

[Lead Fred]

In word, NO.

My current loads per projectile weight

30-06 load: 54.5 gr H4350, 187 A-Max
Nagant Load: 54gr H4350, 175gr SMK

[Bjornb]

Lyman's 42nd Reloader's handbook, page 134 (7.62 Russian): CAST BULLET LOADS: NOTE: Use same cast bullets and charges as for 30-06.

[Maven]

If you are/were a reader of "Guns & Ammo," the August, 1995 issue had an article by Ed Sanow about the Mosin Nagant titled "Russia's .30-06." Here is a quote from the article:

"With a 2,900 feet-per-second (fps) muzzle velocity for a 149-grain bullet, the 7.6 x 54 Russian Rimmed (sic) is equal ballistically to the American .30-06 Springfield." (p. 65)

Btw, Sanow also has a table of 7.62 x 54R ammo data on the last page.

[makicjf]

Thanks Guys.
Jason

[MT Chambers]

Loads can be interchanged in some cases because cast loads are very low pressure, but don't be fooled by that when equating top end loads, Lyman shows heavier loads for the .375 Win. than it does for the .378 Weatherby Mag. with cast bullets, so I wouldn't read too much into it when loading heavier loads.

[mroliver77]

I was very inexperienced with filler until I came here. I followed Larrys advice and have had nothing but success. Like he says, it is not rocket science. Just make sure it fills the available space. Dont need to pack it like a wad.

Read read read!
J

[Larry Gibson]

If you are/were a reader of "Guns & Ammo," the August, 1995 issue had an article by Ed Sanow about the Mosin Nagant titled "Russia's .30-06." Here is a quote from the article:

"With a 2,900 feet-per-second (fps) muzzle velocity for a 149-grain bullet, the 7.6 x 54 Russian Rimmed (sic) is equal ballistically to the American .30-06 Springfield." (p. 65)

Btw, Sanow also has a table of 7.62 x 54R ammo data on the last page.

Except what Sanow failed to note was the 2900 fps was in a 29" MN and his '06 figures were for 22" barrels or 24" at the most. Drop the MN barrel back to 22 - 24" and it gives less velocity than the '06 in 22 - 24" barrels with milsurp and commercial loads. The '06 has greater case capacity and thus the 7.62x54R can not equal or exceed the '06's velocity even when both are loaded to the same psi given equal barrel lengths.

Larry Gibson