Which 45-70 Class of Loads for the Handi?

[Four-Sixty]

Gentlemen,

I have the 49th edition of the Lyman manual. I understand the three different classes of load for the 45-70. I am unclear how to translate that to the Handi rifle. Is the handi rifle limited to the Trapdoor pressure level loads, or is it capable of either the Marlin or Ruger level loads?

I am not quite sure how to verify this one. I'd appreciate some input.

Thanks,

Chris

[grampa243]

i would say you could use the marlin loads as long as the gun is in good shape. just watch for high pressure signs and make sure you work up from the suggested starting load.

but i will say with such a light gun you may find the recoil from the loads in the trapdoor group a little more fun to shoot.

[Doc_Stihl]

I stick to the lower end of the marlin loads as the top mark. They'll probably take more, but recoil in the light rifle gets old.

[Four Fingers of Death]

Checkout Mike Belm's site. He mostly discusses T/C firearms, but the measuring for headspace using the ammunition is applicable to all break open firearms. Basically, using a feeler guage, measure the barrel to action gap, the gap between the firmly chambered round and the action and finally, the gap between the action and the fired case. Comparing these will give you an idea of what is happening.

[NVScouter]

The handi is factory chambered in 30-06 and other high pressure rounds so I'm pretty confidant in using 45-70 loads in the same pressure range.

The real limit is what Doc said. Shooting upper level lever acttion loads in my little 22" with stock buttplate got old fast. I just added a new recoil pad and trigger job when I refinished it but have yet to see how it feels. I used a medium hard pad as many pads are too soft for a big calibers in my opinion.

[Four Fingers of Death]

I shoot a 375H&H in a 7lb Remington 700SPS. The recoil pad is jello soft and I thought that it would be too soft (made by Limbsaver I am led to believe). With factory 270Gn loads, it bucks and bellows like made and bites my trigger finger, I really have to hang onto it, but it doesn't bruise my shoulder, even though I am on blood thinning meds and bruise easily.

[NVScouter]

Thats my take too actually. I put a Limbsaver on a 30-06 and its fine on my shoulder with 225g boolits but moves so much I had to increase my eye to scope distance since it was coming all the way back! I have a Kick-EZ thats just right and the old Pachmyers are good too if not slightly too hard.

I think I'll leave my 375 H&H is my CZ 550 Safari the extra weight feels good launch my 315g boolits!

[Okie73]

I have the Buffalo Classic with NO recoil pad on it just a steel plate. I load the Lyman 457193 to a velocity just under 1300 FPS.
I use 34.0 grains of IMR 3031 which is the starting trap door load for that powder.
With the BC and it's steel plate that is all I care to push it. I believe the H&R actoin will handle a lot more but my shoulder won't.
If I were you I would start at the trap door loads and work up. I think that you will find that this round performs really well at less than break neck/shoulder speeds.IMHO

[John Boy]

Use either the Trapdoor or Marlin loading data.
............................................
Recoil pads of any type are only shock absorbers. The Felt Recoil equation determines these factors for felt recoil before the pad softens the blow:
Recoil Impulse in (lbs sec)
Velocity of recoiling firearm (fps)
Free recoil energy in (ft/lbs)
http://www.handloads.com/calc/recoil.asp

[nagantguy]

The rifle will handle it as the handi rifle is chambered for higher pressure rounds but how about your shoulder?

[BAGTIC]

The breech thrust of a 45-70 case loaded to 55,000 psi should equate to a 30-06's 61,000 psi SAAMI maximum. Remember most factory ammo is not loaded near maximum pressures. at 50,000 psi it would be comparable to about 55,000 psi in a 30-06.

I suspect you will give up and surrender before the gun does. I have a Handi-Rifle in 45-70 and 500 S&W. I will never know how much they will take. I have learned my lesson. I had shoulder surgery two years ago to remove excess bone growth that prevented me from combing my hair, shaving, or brushing my teeth with my right arm. The surgeon asked if I had ever played football. He said it was a common problem with ex-footballers. When I told him no football but I liked to shoot guns he commented that would do it too. Consider all the old time macho shooters you have met who could not hear the dinner call if the bucket was placed over there head and beaten with a hammer. Forewarned is forearmed.

[Doc_Stihl]

I can tell you that I once errantly loaded 10 rounds with a charge that was about 5% over Max load for a ruger number 1 power level with a 500gr GC hardcast. Made 1950 FPS on the chrony and kicked like a mule. No pressure signs and extracted from the rifle with ease. I fired 3 rounds before I checked the chrony and realized that was too fast. The other 7 were pulled down and reduced. I marked those cases. Measured the web compared to a standard load and expansion difference wasn't measurable that I could tell.
(That mishap was caused by my 10 gr weight on my scale being bumped up 1 notch and not realizing it)

[Michael J. Spangler]

I've shot some stout loads approaching ruger only load data in a h&r
The owner did substantial research on the firearm before he started to play with hot loads.

The receivers are totally capable of handling the hottest of loads. I do remember him saying that h&r had two different receivers in their line up. One being meant for the heavy duty rounds and another that was not as strong.

[nicholst55]

NEF/H&R says Marlin-level loads, and then they chamber the gun in .500 S&W which operates at higher pressures. Buffalo Bore says Ruger #1-level loads. I say your shoulder will give out before you reach either level, but that's just MHO.

[Four-Sixty]

I'll give it a go. I like to "learn by doing". I'll start with the trapdoor loads as y'all suggest.

Maybe I could pick up a 500 S&W barrel cheap...

[725]

That light rifle can handle more than you will want too. Trap door loads work just fine.

[DrCaveman]

As i was told when i asked this question last year, and as many here are saying, your shoulder will give out or break, or just become not that fun to shoot before the gun fails.

Ive been pushing 405 gr slugs at 1600fps and it is a handful. But still fun. I also loaded and shot some 500 gr loads at 1600fps and it became...less fun. Then i loaded down the 405 loads to about 1400 fps and it was fun, accurate, and did not seem to faze the gun in any way.

Fwiw, i found varget (higher load density) to have a much more pleasant kick than reloder 7. Im planning to try some 4064 soon, i expect it will be similar to varget. Something about a 'push' vs a 'punch'.

To answer yiur question, i think the gun shoots best right at the top of trapdoor loads, maybe a little into marlin level loads.

[colt1960]

The handi will take more than you can. Load what ever you want. Trap-door loads are best if your going to shoot many rounds. The 45-70 doesnt have to be fast to be effective. Rick!!!!

[softpoint]

1.The 45/70 isn't going to shoot flat no matter how hot you load it.
2. the 45/70 with a 400 or so grain bullet at 1400 or so fps. will go all the way through most anything you will shoot it at at ranges that the trajectory is not an obstacle.
I have 8 of them of various makes and models, I keep a few loads around that will make your nose run and your eyes water, and they are accurate with those loads, but they ain't really necessary.