Duh!!!

[JohnH]

OK, I've posted this in the wrong place twice now....Has anyone used the WC820 pull down from Pats Reloading? Is it for practical purposes the same same stuff the Bartlett is selling as new powder?

[mike in co]

there are several diff lots.....some is new mil surplus, some is pd(pull down).
pull down may have some impurities....grandules of other powders is the most common i have seen...but it shoots very well

[felix]

I and Sundog bought several different lots of WC820, including some designated as H108. Being a double base ball powder, the powder will last forever, unless treated wrongly. That in mind, buy the cheapest one. I have found at most 1 grain differences in charges required to make the same pressure in the various large pistol cases. However, each lot acquired must be tested. Start with AA9 loads and work towards H110 loads, looking down the bore and stopping where the balls diminish in size plus a half grain. That will be the optimum load in terms of economy and accuracy. ... felix

[waksupi]

" looking down the bore and stopping where the balls diminish in size plus a half grain. That will be the optimum load in terms of economy and accuracy. ... felix"

Felix, I don't understand this. Can you explain what you mean?

[felix]

Basically, Ric, upon observation of the various lots of WC820, and with that particular one ball powder formulation only (so far), the bigger unfired balls burn very uniformily and to predictably smaller balls in a most linearly fashion. Just when you can eyeball the burnt balls as really smaller ones by looking down the barrel in good sunlight, with whatever load, just add a half grain to that load and call the load development done for that boolit and primer. ... felix

[waksupi]

Very interesting, Felix. Thanks for the explaination.

[Buckshot]

...........John, it's pretty good stuff regardless of lot. Some is a bit faster-slower but it all seems to satisfy everyone who's used it so far. I don't recall ever hearing anyone being truly disappointed in it's performance. I've used mine in the 357 mag, 3 Super, and 223 with cast. I know others have used it in very wide applicaitons. Maven comes to mind having used it in the 7.5 Swiss, 7.62 Russian and 45-70.

From what I've read over the years the lots have about spanned the AA9 to true H110 ballistics. Nothing faster or slower.

..............Buckshot

[Junior1942]

Basically, Ric, upon observation of the various lots of WC820, and with that particular one ball powder formulation only (so far), the bigger unfired balls burn very uniformily and to predictably smaller balls in a most linearly fashion. Just when you can eyeball the burnt balls as really smaller ones by looking down the barrel in good sunlight, with whatever load, just add a half grain to that load and call the load development done for that boolit and primer. ... felix

Felix, please explain "unfired balls" and "burnt balls." Do you mean unfired individual kernels of powder? Or a glob of unburned powder?

[felix]

Junior, the individual granules, or kernels, of powder! No globs. ... felix

[StarMetal]

Felix

When one says they got unburned powder kernels or grandules in their barrel they are usually seeing powder kernels most oftn with the grafite coating burned or blowed off. I don't see how a kernel would burn down to a certain size and stop. Why and what would make it stop? After all gunpowder is a fuel with it's own oxidizer. I thought once it started burning there's no stoping it. No matter how big a pile of powder you put on the ground and light, nothing is left except residue. Yeah I know, conditions are different inside a barrel, but then again it was designed to burn inside a cartridge/barrel. Explain please how the kernel only burns part way?

Joe

[felix]

Our powders we use are made out of wood, cotton, or any kind of cellulose which technically is a complex carbohydrate, and, in pure form, is composed of chained glucose units. That's right, Joe, sugar! Charcoal results from an incomplete combustion of any kind of carbohydrate. Sometimes we cook steaks with it, and at other times we just take a dump to pass it down to the river. Our powders rely on a MAINTAINED pressure for a completed combustion. That pressure will generate the heat necessary to burn through the powder's deterrents. ... felix

[JohnH]

Thanks guys, as usual I learned more than I thought was in my question. What a wonderful place this is.

[Buckshot]

............One of the powder manufacturers had at one time the history of how they managed to get smokless gunpowder listed as a flammable solid vs and explosive. I'm pretty sure it was Hodgden. There were several photographs of various things along with the story. One of them was of a 27' half set that had been loaded with smokless powder in various sized containers, in carboard shipping cartons.

Actually it was only about half of the pup, and somehow or other the powder ignited (don't recall if they'd found out how). The rear half of the trailer was just melted pools of aluminum on the ground and the tires had caught on fire. However, the powder did eventually go out. You could still see the front half of the trailer load of cardboard cartons, and the rear consisted of some charred ones, or partially burned boxes, etc.

Speaking of chunks and clumps. :D WC820 works like magic in the 38 Super, at least with heavy boolits, and sends the 147gr Lyman (153 actual) off at better then 1250 fps (5' bbl). One day I decided to try a bit lighter load with a 124gr RN. Bad idea! I'd loaded 50 rounds, in 10 round batches starting light and going up a grain at a time. EVen the heaviest of what I'd loaded left big hunks of fused powder in the barrel, and mucho little balls scattered all over.

................Buckshot

.............Buckshot

[PatMarlin]

Do you think WC820 would be a good candidate for the 454 Casull?

[Beau Cassidy]

"Sometimes we cook steaks with it, and at other times we just take a dump to pass it down to the river."

Sort of brings a new meaning to the phrase "it shot like crap."

Beau

[felix]

Yeah, it very might well shoot like crap when we get too many left over balls, but we cannot say this for sure. Sometimes the results are good enough to send home to momma. And, sometimes you have to do the Buckshot flick with the leftover balls, or else risk jamming up a rifle chamber with grit.

WC820 can be a good powder for the 454 casull, and most especially with the lighter boolits. We are talking cost/effectiveness here. However, 296 is the best for full power in all boolit weights, and you should have some for long range hunting with the 300 grainers and above. If you are talking 100 yards or less for deer, then 820 would be plenty sufficient. ... felix