Ruger GSR with 147 FMJBT Pulls

[Finnmike]

I'm taking the liberty to pull away from the epic GSR thread (thanks to all, I've learned alot!) to share some observations of developing a jacketed load for my GSR equipped with a Leatherwood 2x7 EER scope. Great scope, btw.

After nearly a year messing with powders of various types, I've settled on WC846 bulk, IMR3031 and Reloader 15 with some of my order of 2,000 147 gr FMJBT pulls. I'd get great grouping at 100 yards off of the bench and then one or two fliers in a 5-round group. Finally, I realized I'd better measure the jwords. Tonight I found that fully 18% (54) out of a sample of 300 of these projectiles were significantly out-of-round. Nominal diameters were miked with my Lyman at .3080. The culls were literal ovals, ranging from .3044-.3095 to .3060-3099.

I set up on the kitchen table to keep my wife company for the evening instead of hiding in my gun room; setup is as shown. I'll load my in-spec projectiles with my promising powder charges and head off to the range next week. The weights WERE checked as well for the in-spec projectiles, all within a range of 147-148 gr. Close enuff for me.

The pics tell the story of fliers. One group had a one-hole cloverleaf...aarrggh...7346373464734657346773466

[Lefty SRH]

I just got some M80 ball, mine aren't pulls but I'll be checking for roundness. I have had my GSR for 1 1/2 now and I have enjoyed it everytime I take it to the range. I am selling one of my other .308s cause I don't shoot it anymore.

[Lefty SRH]

I wonder if you push those OOR bullets through a .308 die if they'll be more consistent?

My own RGS (2) have never seen a jacket since leaving the factory. I never had intention of shooting full power ammo in them, and have been more than pleased with the cast accuracy that I've gotten. They are great rifles.

What kind of accuracy have you gotten with what boolits and powder?

[Outpost75]

I think that you are wasting your time trying to work up a load with ordinary linked pack ball bullets and trying to get any real expectation of accuracy. M80 ball is intended for machinegun use. Try some M118LR or some good European NATO ball which was manufactured in clipped pack, intended for rifle use in the first place.73485734867348773488

These are representative 10-shot, 200 yard groups

[Finnmike]

Valid point, Outpost. Nice groups. What rifle and scope? But I wonder if you mike'd any of yours (curiosity, not arguementive on my part). Yeah, milpulls are not the best, but I had 1500 of'em. If I wanted to get right to it, I'd be shooting SMKs! That's next.

OTOH, I've noticed my bore being slicker to clean after 300 rounds of jacketed. Wanted to establish a nice full-power load before seriously progressing to cast.

[Outpost75]

....Nice groups. What rifle and scope? But I wonder if you mike'd any of yours (curiosity, not arguementive on my part). Yeah, milpulls are not the best, but I had 1500 of'em. If I wanted to get right to it, I'd be shooting SMKs! ....Wanted to establish a nice full-power load before seriously progressing to cast.

Rifles were a Winchester Model 70 Target with 10x Unertl and a custom 98 Mauser with Douglas No.7 barrel and Zeiss 10x36mm Diatal-C. Ammo was arsenal loads, didn't measure any bullets, but proven good lots from long experience.

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Groups here with handloaded 168 Sierra MKs and LC M118 pulls from 60- lots late 1970s.

Frankly, I see no point in running a bunch of full-power jacketed plinking bullets through your barrel condition it for cast. You will only foul and wear out your barrel faster. Much better to clean it well with Kroil and JB to remove all prior jacket and powder fouling, then shoot some baseline groups with good match bullets to ensure there are no issues with bedding, etc., then go to cast.

Good cast loads which fit the bore properly should do this well from a bolt military rifle. The group of friends I shoot with regularly fire 200 yard matches with cast and expect 1.5 m.o.a. or better from a good Springfield, K31 or Finnish M28/30 or M39.

[W.R.Buchanan]

The bore on my GSR after about 500 rounds is mirror smooth. The source for those Recycled Bullets was Hi-tech ammo. The bullets were air pulled (don't ask me how this works cuz I really can't figure it out.) and then tumbled and ran thru a sizing die.

All of the bullets I have measured are .3078 and round.

That said,,, expecting bench rest accuracy from this type of fodder is a little unrealistic. The whole purpose of these bullets is to provide a cheap load with acceptable accuracy so you can shoot more.

I would expect to get 12-15,000 rounds thru my Scout with these loads before the barrel was toast, and that won't happen any time soon. It is not uncommon for competetors in long range matches to change their barrels out at 5,000 rounds however those same barrels can still deliver acceptable accuracy for another 5,000+ if the loads are toned down a bit.

The main place the barrel is going to wear is at the chamber throat, and just toning down your loads a little bit will prolong the errosion greatly. The .308 is not particularly hard on barrels in the first place.

Next; You kind of got to assess your particular needs as far as accuracy is concerned. I'm pretty sure my 7/8" groups from my Scout would tighten up if I was loading Sierra Palmas, but I don't NEED accuracy better than 7/8" at 100 yards for anything I am shooting at.

That's still a 5.25" group at 600 yards, so what exactly are you shooting at that needs more? My only hard experience shooting at that distance off a rest came when sighting my rifle in with the new scope recently. I hit a Silhouette Ram at 500 meters (550yds) three times with three shots and the group was about 8x4".

My bench mark for all rifle shooting is the ability to hit a man sized target at whatever distance the gun is capible of and appropriate for. I consider that level of accuracy the minimum, however in most cases I also consider it to be adequate since if push comes to shove that's what it would be used for. This is why I have Red Dots on all my .223's, I consider them to be 300 yard guns and I can hit a man sized target every time off a rest at 300 yards with those sights.

Super accuracy with no real purpose is pointless. You build the tool to do a job, not to excel as a tool.

Randy

[Finnmike]

This thread is taking on a bit of life more than I intended. My GSR with the 2-7 Leatherwood was purchased to be used as a 25-200 yd rifle for hunting and defence. I'm not going to be running tight groups over extended distances with this setup. Outpost's gear is considerably ahead of mine, and I would darned well expect great groups with it! My original point was that IF one was running milsurp pulls, and was having fliers, check the concentricity of the rounds! That's all.
Maybe I came across as naive, but I am well versed in shooting cast....in my 03A3s, Mosins, Krags and Marlins. My GSR is a toy as well as a tool, and at 65 I damned well intend to shoot the bore out before letting it go...anyway, back to loading...

[Lefty SRH]

OutPost, wher would a man find and buy some M118 pulled bullets?

[Outpost75]

OutPost, wher would a man find and buy some M118 pulled bullets?

I got mine at Quantico back in the 1980s. No honest to goodness "real" M118s are available anymore.

The Wideners Yugo import 174-grain FMJBT bullets are not as good as FA34 Ball M1, which averages about 4-5" from a good Springfield.

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These here are 200-yard groups with the handloaded Wideners M118 "clones" - not even as good as Lake City's worst


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[country gent]

Finnmike, I have used those for juniors at 200 yd and 300yd lines in NRA high power matches. ( coaching kids with Known ammo is much easier)and the way they were pulled will contribute to the roundness. Wieghts vary some in certain lots also. You may want to check ogive dimensions also as I have seen these vary some. Sinclairs sold a 1" octogon gage that had .22, 6mm, 6.5mm, 7mm, 308, bore dia holes around it. This allowed you to measure accuratly from base to ogive. Alot of this ammo was "blended" lots after pulling also. I shot the 173 M118 bullet for long range with my M1As with good results. The 147 is a good bullet with in its limits. Sorting will improve its consistency. IMR 4895 and reloader15 were the powders I used most.

[tomme boy]

Take a magnet to them pulls. If they stick, I would not shoot them out of my guns.

[Artful]

Steel Jacket J-words do cause accelerated wear on your bore

http://www.luckygunner.com/labs/brass-vs-steel-cased-ammo/#bookmark4

So I would go easy on there use if your pulls turn out to be steel.