Surplus 7.5 x 54 MAS ammo.........a low down, dirty shame.

[3006guns]

I have approximately 500 rounds of nice shiny 1939 vintage 7.5 French and finally shot some in my MAS. That's when I discovered that six out of every ten rounds were either duds or hang fires. No sweat, I'll just pull the bullets, dump the powder and reprime with some of my nice new Wolf berdans...reload and we're off to the races! Then I can reload again with boolits and have twice the fun!

No such luck. The primers are so heavily crimped that even my RCBS berdan tool just rips chunks out and by the time I manage to get the remnants removed, the pocket and anvil are a sorry sight.

End result: I'm pulling/salvaging all the service bullets and reclaiming the powder to use in those Privi cases I SHOULD have ordered when they were on sale a couple of months ago. The old brass will go to the scrap yard and any resulting cash will go towards the new cases.

"He who hesitates is lost........." :( rant off.

[dabsond]

I had heard some of the recent 7.5 French ammo was loaded as machinegun ammo. Either it was delinked or never liked at all. That would account for the extremely tight seated primers.

[Ed in North Texas]

One trick you might try is heating the base of the cartridge. I've found that helps a lot with hydraulic removal, and still had some in 7.62x39 which required the RCBS. Found out why when I got the primers out - I had tumbled the brass in fine walnut shell and there were pieces of walnut shell blocking the primer holes on those cases which the water didn't get off. Won't do that again. Seems to me about 3 or 4 seconds with a propane torch was about right - not so hot as to damage the case but enough to cause the metal to expand and break a little bit loose. No guarantees, but the case will still be good for the scrap yard if the primer won't come out.

Also, with the RCBS you might want to install your seating die upside down in the press, then use the RCBS on it while the press holds the case for you. You get lots more ability to apply some muscle that way.

With thanks to those who passed on those tips to me (I know the heating was from this board, think I found the die holder on-line).

[3006guns]

This ammo is in plain white cardboard boxes labeled "cartridges, 7.5 m/m" with 20 in each. The head stamps are from a Paris arsenal with a 1939 date. The primers were evidently crimped for use in automatic weapons and the ring crimp is a doozy!

Thanks for the idea on heating the base of the case, something I hadn't thought of (one of the major reasons I'm on this board). I'll go very slowly and carefully so as not to anneal anything and see what happens.

Edit: I carefully heated the base of nine cases, no more than three seconds each and then dropped in water. Using my RCBS Berdan tool, I was able to salvage perhaps seven or eight out of ten cases which is far better than before. I also discovered that it helps to take several "bites" around the perimeter of the primer and lift it out that way. Still a bit of a struggle but at least I'm salvaging some really nice old brass instead of tossing it! After removing the primer, I used my pocket knife to cut a bevel around the pocket and the new primers go in with what feels like the correct amount of pressure. From now on they should be fairly reasonable to reload!

[ak_milsurp]

You know the French mad some of their 7.5 Ammo so that it could not be reloaded.... they wanted to stop the Algerian and Morrocan rebels from reloading spent cartridges. the primers are extremely difficult to remove and or the case heads will separate.....

[Frank46]

And french ammo is usually very corrosive. Frank

[3006guns]

You know the French mad some of their 7.5 Ammo so that it could not be reloaded.... they wanted to stop the Algerian and Morrocan rebels from reloading spent cartridges. the primers are extremely difficult to remove and or the case heads will separate.....

No, I didn't know that......thank you! I've collected milsurp rifles for many years but French weapons are my downfall. I know only the basics about their development and history and not the little historical nuggets that make them interesting. I've decided to salvage all the bullets and powder, then scrap the brass.

[Ed in North Texas]

You know the French mad some of their 7.5 Ammo so that it could not be reloaded.... they wanted to stop the Algerian and Morrocan rebels from reloading spent cartridges. the primers are extremely difficult to remove and or the case heads will separate.....

The Algerian unpleasantness was "hot" from after Dien Bien Phu in 1954 into the 1960s. In 1939 France had a rather different problem on the mind. And I've not been able to find any verifiable information on this (though 8mm Lebel ammo used an odd Berdan primer, different from other European military primers), but it is documented that many WW II German weapons were used by the FLN (the Middle East and North African Arab world was virtually awash in them after the War). Morocco never was a real problem for the French once they achieved control in 1911 (after a short unpleasantness with Germany over Morocco).

[Ed in North Texas]

You know the French mad some of their 7.5 Ammo so that it could not be reloaded.... they wanted to stop the Algerian and Morrocan rebels from reloading spent cartridges. the primers are extremely difficult to remove and or the case heads will separate.....

The Algerian rebellion was "hot" from after Dien Bien Phu in 1954 into the 1960s. In 1939 France had a rather different problem on the mind. And I've not been able to find any verifiable information on this (though 8mm Lebel ammo used an odd Berdan primer, different from other European military primers), but it is documented that many WW II German weapons were used by the FLN (the Middle East and North African Arab world was virtually awash in them after the War). Morocco never was a real problem for the French once they achieved control in 1911 (after a short unpleasantness with Germany over Morocco).

[3006guns]

An update:

I just pulled the last bullet from this lot of ammo and found a couple of interesting things. Some of the headstamps are 1947, well after WWII, and many of these bullets had the lead core hanging out of the bottom after extraction. The lead appeared to be oxidized also. It looks like the lead either wasn't inserted correctly or worked it's way back out but the French loaded them anyway. Great quality control.

The powder is all that black, square, shiny flake stuff you find in a lot of European ammo. None of it appears degraded, although it has a slight "musty" smell with no trace of lacquer at all. I put a teaspoon on a concrete block and touched it off with a match and it burned like normal rifle powder.

Altogether, I salvaged about 400 139 grain service bullets and close to three pounds of useable powder. Now I just have to order some brass!

[mace2364]

On the postive side, I think you will be perfectly happy with your new cases. My MAS-49/56 wasn't hard on them, even by the 2nd firing, so if you're shooting a MAS36 you'll be good to go for a while. You can use regular .308 components when you use up your pulled 139 grs. I loaded some 147gr FMJBT into mine. This has me thinking that I haven't fired either of my 7.5 French rifles in quite some time. That will have to make the short list of things to do this summer.