Getting on Paper

[ColColt]

After just receiving the Legendary Frontiersman 38-55 yesterday, I had ordered a Lyman 66A sight for it earlier and had it ready. I have it installed but, since you can't easily bore sight the 94 does anyone have any suggestions as to where/how to adjust those sights so I can at least be on paper at 50-100 yards? I'd hate to waste 10-20 rounds of test ammo trying to get on paper at those ranges.

[pietro]

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I would suggest first aligning the center of the aperture with the front/rear barrel sights before removing the rear barrel sight (for a clean sight picture) & replacing the rear bbl sight with a slot filler blank (either bought or filed from the dovetail section of an old longleaf rear sight).

Since boolits cross the line-of-sight 2x ( 1st on the way "up', 2nd on the way back "down"), I would then shoot/zero @ a relatively close range (like 25yds, paced).

If you can't get on paper @ 25yds, move closer (like @ 10yds), until you are (on paper), and adjust the sight accordingly, then move back to 25yds & re-adjust the zero. ( most rifles zeroed @ 25yds will also be zeroed near 100yds, +/-)

[ColColt]

I'm keeping my fingers crossed I won t have to remove that rear sight as it looks to be a pain to remove. The front part of the rear sight looks to be curved under a dovetail. I've already done what you mentioned and have the center of aperture centered with the rear buck horn and front sight.

[pietro]

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Rear open/iron/Buckhorn sight removal is a snap - and should certainly be done with a Buckhorn as it will definitely detract from shooting with a peep sight.

Just slide the step elevator out from under the sight leaf via lifting up on the sight leaf manually (aka: remove the elevator first), and slide a thin piece of paper between the rear of the sight & the barrel to protect the bluing while removing the sight body.

With the rifle held very securely (a padded vise @ the receiver is best, a strong companion a poor 2nd), use a non-marring drift (I use the pivot pin of a common household door hinge) held against the LH side of the sight's forward male dovetail, driven by a decent-sized hammer (12oz-16oz) to drive the Buckhorn sight out of it's slot, towards the loading port side (RH) of the rifle.

Don't give it light love taps, either - smack the drift hard, while holding it securely/squarely on the side of the LH side of the sight's male dovetail.

The vacant slot is easily filled (in the opposite direction) by installing a slot filler blank, either bought ($6) or filed out of any old longleaf rear sight (as below).

http://i354.photobucket.com/albums/r431/pwawryk/DSCN0461.jpg

http://i354.photobucket.com/albums/r431/pwawryk/DSCN0466.jpg

.

[outdoorfan]

I always start at 5-10 yards for the first shot. I can usually be zeroed well enough to give 100 yards a try by the 4th of 5th shot. Not a big deal. Approaching it from the other end usually ends up in lots of ammo wasted, and then I have to start at 5-10 yards anyway.

[ColColt]

Just slide the step elevator out from under the sight leaf via lifting up on the sight leaf manually (aka: remove the elevator first), and slide a thin piece of paper between the rear of the sight & the barrel to protect the bluing while removing the sight body.

No problem removing the elevator. Would the body move out of the dovetail forward toward the muzzle or back toward the loading port or does it matter? Looks like it would slide right off but I'm not sure. I'm a little hesitant driving the sight out as it looks like the front part(arrow shaped) would scratch the bluing. You can get as business card under the rear but not the front.

OK-got 'er out. It was simpler than I thought. It sure makes a difference in trying to see the front sight without interference.

[Scharfschuetze]

If you zero at 25 yards (where I'd start) remember that each four clicks on the sight will only be about 1/4" in zero change. Given that, you'll need about 16 clicks or 1 and 1/3 revolutions on the turrets for a 1" movement in your POI at 25 yards. Don't tickle those clicks when zeroing at close range or you'll end up wasting those bullets you want to shoot at longer range.

Zero at 25 yards, and you should be about on at 100 yards with the cartridge and the low sight to bore angle.

Update: I just checked my ballistics program, and assuming that you are shooting a 250 grain boolit at about 1500 fps, for a 100 yard zero, you should try and zero about 1" high at 25 yards. That should put you in the middle at 100 with a mid-range trajectory of about 2". I had to SWAG some of the data in the program, but the accuracy of the prediction should be within the grouping ability of the rifle.

I've always wanted a 38/55 and that Legendary Lawman looks to be the perfect platform for it. Good luck at the range!

[btroj]

I start at 25. If I can hit paper in one sot at 25 then I go to 10 yards or so.

Work back as you find center.

[ColColt]

The shortest range I'll have is 50 yards. They have target frames at that distance, 100, 150 and 200 yards. If I can get on paper at 50 yards I'll be good to go at 100. At 50 I'll set the sights to hit a bit high. I bought some 200 yard targets(NRA MR-52) as I had plenty of 100 yard targets. I haven't shot that distance in years so, it should be a treat.

I chose the Frontiersmen over the newer models because it was already drilled and tapped for a Williams/Lyman receiver sight and no tang safety, right side receiver safety and no angle eject.

[Scharfschuetze]

If you decide to shoot out to 200 yards after getting a 100 yard zero, try about +9 MOA on your new Lyman sight. Three marks on the elevation scale or thee rotations on the elevation turret.

[ColColt]

Very good-thanks. I'm trying to keep in my head how to adjust this sight as I'm also in the process of figuring out the MVA vernier sight on my 45-90. A definite difference between those two.

[pietro]

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Once your new/aluminum Lyman peep is zeroed, if it's built like my older/steel Lyman, there should be a long setscrew running vertically through the horizontal bar that holds the sighting aperture, right near the LH edge, where the vertical slide rises from the sight base.

http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd30/Pete44ru/Trapper-1.jpg

If your sight has the setscrew, turn it "in", aka: run it "down" until the bottom tip just touches either the top of the sight base or the receiver side rail (depending upon how your sight is constructed).

Once that's done, the vertical slide can be raised/rezeroed for the longer range (say, 200yds), and the small scale on the slide moved so the two zeroes align (the scale's held by a small screw in it's middle).

With the vertical slide all the way down against the setscrew, you're all set for the 100yd zero; if a longer shot presents, just press the release button to raise the slide until the two zeroes on the scale align...................


One sight, two zeroes.


.

[ColColt]

Sounds like a plan, pietro...thanks.

[John Boy]

does anyone have any suggestions as to where/how to adjust those sights so I can at least be on paper at 50-100 yards?
Set up a large piece of card board at 100yds with a paste on orange bullseye in the middle. Shoot at the bullseye with 3 shots and measure the group inches for the distance from the bullseye. Then adjust your elevation & windage settings on the sight for the distances from the bulleye. That will give you a close center POI for the 100yd target. Shoot a 3 shot group at the adjusted settings of the target. Make final fine tuned adjustments

One can use the same procedure at 12 1/2yds. Your adjustments would be 1/4" sight adjustments for a 100yd setting

[ColColt]

The initial problem I figured I'd have is after mounting the Lyman sight, I set it to be center of the front sight and semi buck horn rear with the front post riding in the bottom of the buck horns "U" cut. I removed then the semi buck horn sight as it was getting in the way of the peep sight. Here's the thing, I don't know where that rifle would have shot as it was set with the elevation setting all the way back. It could have been too much or too little for 100 yards and since it was never shot that could have been an arbitrary setting by the factory or someone else moved it over the years.

[Mk42gunner]

ColColt, it sounds to me like you are at the point you just need to shoot the rifle now. There should be plenty of adjustment on your receiver sight to zero it with any sane load.

Robert

[Scharfschuetze]

As you're limited to starting at 50 yards, use a large piece of un-holed cardboard backing to the target to catch your first rounds. Once you see where they hit, you can then make your adjustments. Remember that one MOA at 50 yards is about 1/2 inch so if your are four inches right then you'll need to come 8 MOA left to zero. Ie. Double the inches of error on target at 50 yards in your calculated MOA adjustment on the Lyman 66 to get zeroed.

As you zeroed your Lyman using the factory Buckhorn sight, you should be on paper at 50 yards I would think. Not guaranteed, but you should be close.

Pietro,

The new Lyman sights don't seem to have the elevation stop screw that you described in your post, so that double zero option may not be available to Col Colt with his newly ordered sight. Nice looking saddle ring Trapper by the way.

[outdoorfan]

Pietro,

The new Lyman sights don't seem to have the elevation stop screw that you described in your post, so that double zero option may not be available to Col Colt with his newly ordered sight. Nice looking saddle ring Trapper by the way.


I have a new Lyman 66a, and it does have that long set screw that pietro described.

[Andrew Mason]

as simple as it is,
i have found shooting at a clay pigon, or even a rock on the berm, and then adjusting off of that is enough to get it on paper.

[Iron Mike Golf]

You might check with your pals and local gun shops and see if anyone has a laser boresighter (the kind you insert in the muzzle).

Using that, you can get a mechanical zero (sight is parallel to the bore with the laser spot hitting below your aiming point the same distance as your sight is above the bore's centerline). Once you have that, click up in elevation an amount of sight height plus 2 inches. That should get you close to point of aim at 50 yds.

[ColColt]

The one I have does have that vertical screw.

http://www.opticsplanet.com/lyman-66-receiver-peep-sights.html

Mike-no such luck with the laser bore sighter. I'm sure I'll be able to get on paper at the shorter range. Since I never know if I'll be there alone or if anyone else will have a spotting scope to see where I hit, I'll bring along my trusty Nikon D200 with a 80-200mm lens...acts as a fair spotting scope plus, if I get decent groups I can photograph them at the same time! It did well photographing Bubba(my avatar)

[Scharfschuetze]

The one I have does have that vertical screw.

http://www.opticsplanet.com/lyman-66-receiver-peep-sights.html

Mike-no such luck with the laser bore sighter. I'm sure I'll be able to get on paper at the shorter range. Since I never know if I'll be there alone or if anyone else will have a spotting scope to see where I hit, I'll bring along my trusty Nikon D200 with a 80-200mm lens...acts as a fair spotting scope plus, if I get decent groups I can photograph them at the same time! It did well photographing Bubba(my avatar)

Isn't that interesting. My latest 66a that I ordered a few weeks ago is sans the screw or even a threaded hole for it. Oh well. You guys got the cheese and I ended up with the whey!

Elevation stop screw aside, how'd it shoot?

[ColColt]

I haven't gotten to the range yet to try it out...soon, hopefully. Yep, as we say around here, sometimes your the windshield, sometimes you're the bug.

[fouronesix]

You can use a skinny mirror to bore sight a lever gun. The skinny mirror will also allow better inspection of chamber and the first part of bore- especially useful when looking at used guns.

[ColColt]

You can use a skinny mirror to bore sight a lever gun. The skinny mirror will also allow better inspection of chamber and the first part of bore- especially useful when looking at used guns.

Skinny mirror? how is that used to bore sight?

[fouronesix]

Same way a bolt gun is bore sighted with the bolt removed.

Set gun in bags, gun vise, cleaning cradle or even in sturdy cardboard box with slots cut out to hold gun. Set about a 6" black bull at 25-50 yards. Put mirror in receiver and look down bore. Line sights up with bull centered in bore. Even works with single shots (like the Trapdoor) when you can't view down bore from the rear.

[TXGunNut]

Shoot it! I'm thinking you'll be a little low so if your first shot is not on paper then hold at the top of the target for the next shot.

[ironhead7544]

as simple as it is,
i have found shooting at a clay pigon, or even a rock on the berm, and then adjusting off of that is enough to get it on paper.

+1 on this. Have someone spot for you. Can save a lot of time

[ColColt]

The neighbor I'll be with has a .308 with a Leopold 4-12x scope. That's about as close to a spotting scope as it'll get but should be sufficient. I'll be trying to sight in two rifles next Friday, the 38-55 and a 45-90. Both have entirely different sights so, it should be a challenge.

[bigted]

nothing challenging my friend. shoot the first shot to see where it goes at 25 yds on a piece of butcher paper...30x30 or so with a dot in the middle to sight at.

move your rear sight in the direction that you want the boolit to change to...side to side and up n down.

3 or 4 should get you very close at the 25 yd mark. don't worry bout the spent loads as the first few outta a new clean barrel will not be accurate anyway most likely ... plus ... you will need to get familiar with how she shoots and recoils before you can settle down for nat killin at 1000 yds anyway.

just go out n have fun with your new friend and report back with yer smilin mug.

[ColColt]

I've got 100 and 200 yard targets but as big as the 100 yard targets are at 50 yards, closest I can shoot due to where they have the frames set up, I feel pretty sure the first shot will be on paper. Those targets measure 21x21"(MR-31) but the bullseye is nearly six inches...should be able to hit that. Once on paper I'll move out to 100 yards to produce some MOA groups(hopefully). Nat killin'? I'll be happy to knock the knees off a fly at 100 yards.

[jh45gun]

Your making it too hard on your self, like the guys said get a large piece of cardboard and shoot it. It really is not that difficult. On a side note them Bushnell laser bore sighters are only around 30 bucks and they work. Some folks say they have problems but I never had any problems with them the only thing you have to know is you need to put the red dot at a distance if you do it really close it will not work you need to aim at something around 15 yards I have found out. You really do not need one to sight in a gun but they are handy.