Business Idea - legality question

[mikeyjones]

I had an idea last night so I wanted to get your opinions on this.

Let's say I wanted to open a reloading shop where people could come in and use my equipment to make their own ammo and I would charge for use of my equipment, instruction and component cost. I assume since components aren't regulated, there wouldn't be any legal issues. Is there something that I'm missing?

It would be like a diy garage.

Thanks.

[Nickle]

I wouldn't make that assumption.

Best to be open with your ideas, before you put them in practice to your local BATFE folks, especially if they're friendly.

[dakotashooter2]

It still may be considered a manufacturing facility..............

[Freightman]

This sounds good! but it will open you up to all kinds of liability, if you think that a friend will not sue you better think again. Just my opinion but in our world there is a personal injury lawyer behind every bush.

[StratsMan]

I had that same thought a few months ago.... there are Do-It-Yerself craft shops, where you buy their stuff, use their tables, etc.... a Pay-As-You go concept... So why not reloading???

Local regs would pro'lly be looking at you REEEEAAAL close to make sure that the client was actually making the product...

Lots of details to hammer out, but I liked the idea then and I like it now...

[-Mischief]

Mmmmm...not a good idea. The little bubble above my head...(Hey bud, just sit down here, do this, this and this and let me look it over when you're done. Okay Mikey Jones, I'm done. How does it look? Well bud, it look s great, now go shoot it)

Next day on front page..."Man kills 3 people in parking lot with ammo from friends reloading shop"!

[StratsMan]

Next day on front page..."Man kills 3 people in parking lot with ammo from friends reloading shop"!

While that could happen, I've never seen a news article specifying the brand of ammo a lunatic used in a mass shooting....

One of the details to hammer out would be to determine if the client could lawfully buy ammo....

[Cane_man]

great idea, but imo a liability nightmare...

[-Mischief]

While that could happen, I've never seen a news article specifying the brand of ammo a lunatic used in a mass shooting....No but I've seen them state where that lunatic had gone to Walmart the night before and still had the receipt for the ammo in his jacket pocket.

[TES]

You would still have to pay the ITAR tax / fee because your intellectual property would be used to help people make ammo. Intellectual property is covered in the list.

Also every component is regulated and you would still need to get an 06 FFL. You might as well just make it yourself. All the costs associated with a reloading business are still there.

[mikeyjones]

Obviously there's a lot to flesh out. From a liability standpoint, isn't it the same as a buddy coming over to use your press? Even it caused a KB, would he have grounds to sue since he did all of the work?

I would have to check somehow that they're legal to purchase ammo even though they wouldn't need to do that if they got their own setup.

[MBTcustom]

Had a friend ask my opinion on doing the exact same thing.
I told him about the liability issues which are staggering. Don't get me wrong, 99.99% of your customers would be very happy and sing your praises, but that one who looked at your establishment as a one way ticket to the good life, would bend you over a barrel and give you what for till you go blind lol!

The bigger issue is that with any business, you need to be able to make money, and that more abundantly. You need to be able to make a profit. Enough profit to cover your expenses "including insurance, FFL, ITAR, materials, lights, lawyers, etc. "
I don't see it, but only you know what you can do in the area that you are in.

I can tell you this: If you are going to do this, decide if you want to be legal about it or not. If you decide to be legal about it, then go all the way, and render unto Caesar what is Caesar's. If you go half way, its just a matter of time before you get in trouble.

[StratsMan]

You might as well just make it yourself. All the costs associated with a reloading business are still there.

Except labor and the associated costs... Still, a cool idea...

As far as liability and other costs of a dangerous business, I don't see how a shooting range can afford to do business; but they do... There have been suicides associated with ranges that have rentals, too... But they stay in business... I don't know how, but they do... So while this idea has some unique challenges, I bet they could be overcome... May not be easy, but if it were then everyone would do it....

[Blacksmith]

Are you going to offer instruction even if it's just show them how the press works? When NRA came out with the reloading instructor certification I thought about adding that to my skillset but thinking about all the ways someone can go wrong reloading, even if you are careful, and the litigious society we live in the liability issue kept me from doing it.

I suggest you talk it over with an insurance company and see what a multimillion dollar liability policy will cost then go from there.

[historicfirearms]

Dont let anyone talk you out of what you think is a good idea. You see, the progressives love making things so difficult that nobody will try anything for themselves. Don't let them have their way. If you think you can do it, then do it.

[mikeyjones]

I think it can definitely be done. Just a matter of resolving the legal issues. I guess I'll have to contact a gun lawyer and talk to them. All this is further complicated by the fact that I live in the PRNJ.

[wv109323]

A problem I see with the idea is constant income. How would you create income if there is no reloading components as we are experiencing now.

[mikeyjones]

A problem I see with the idea is constant income. How would you create income if there is no reloading components as we are experiencing now.

The shortage is definitely noticeable but I was still able to get powder and primers through all of it. By running a business, you have to plan ahead so I would definitely have enough inventory on hand to ride out any storm.

[Wayne Smith]

Would you be keeping inventory/selling inventory or expecting them to bring their own? Would you be providing formal classes or informal one on one instruction? Would you be giving instruction for casting and providing that equipment? Would you limit your equipment to single stage presses or would you have a deal with Dillon? Would you do this on your own or in cooperation with a local range?

This is just the beginning of the questions you have to think through and answer to write a business plan. Until you have a business plan you will not have any investors and you probably cannot get insurance until you have a business license. I carry 2mil/2mil insurance as a psychologist, MD's are way higher. There are companies who write these policies, check with your local range, they know all the options.

Part of a business plan is a financial assessment, both costs to set up and run and potential income. This requires an assessment of the potential client base. How will you fill your business without running classes? Every range that has CC classes has faced this issue and resolved it, they would not run the classes otherwise.

My point is that all the questions posed in this thread have been answered and probably the owner of your local range has most if not all the answers. Talk to him.

[mikeyjones]

Would you be keeping inventory/selling inventory or expecting them to bring their own? Would you be providing formal classes or informal one on one instruction? Would you be giving instruction for casting and providing that equipment? Would you limit your equipment to single stage presses or would you have a deal with Dillon? Would you do this on your own or in cooperation with a local range?

This is just the beginning of the questions you have to think through and answer to write a business plan. Until you have a business plan you will not have any investors and you probably cannot get insurance until you have a business license. I carry 2mil/2mil insurance as a psychologist, MD's are way higher. There are companies who write these policies, check with your local range, they know all the options.

Part of a business plan is a financial assessment, both costs to set up and run and potential income. This requires an assessment of the potential client base. How will you fill your business without running classes? Every range that has CC classes has faced this issue and resolved it, they would not run the classes otherwise.

My point is that all the questions posed in this thread have been answered and probably the owner of your local range has most if not all the answers. Talk to him.


I appreciate the input. My main hang up right now on the legality issues. I have a background in business/finance so I will be able to iron out the rest once I find out if this is legal. I need to know if 1) an FFL is required or 2) if a SOT 6 is even required.

Someone mentioned something about my intellectual property being used to make the ammo. I definitely don't think that's the case. In the same way a teacher's lecture isn't copyrighted unless there's something tangible (notes, outline, etc). The copyrighted works would be those of Lyman, Lee, Hornady and others.

[Wayne Smith]

I do believe you are right there, but it all depends on what you actually do. The devil is in the details. You really need to talk to a lawyer who is familiar with these laws. Again call your local range for referrals.

[boltaction308]

There is a great big grass roots push over the hole US called "Hacker Space". This is primarily technology based but its a group of people that get together and share ideas, pool their resources to buy equipment such as 3D printers, laser cutters, etc. At the one in my area, they have a 3D printer, a small laser cutter, drill press, small lathe, soldering equipment etc. There is a membership, about $50 / month that mainly pays the rent.

What you are proposing is similar except these Hacker spaces are not done as businesses but as non-profit educational groups.

I know a local gun store offers reloading classes and I have seen other stores on the net that do the same.

I am not an ATF officer but I dont think it would be manufacturing because you are not selling the ammo. Each person takes their own when the leave.

just my $0.02 worth

[TES]

Well what happens when you teach somebody to fish? Do they keep coming back to you the teacher or do they just go out and fish without the added expense? There might be enough people that want to learn at first but is it sustainable?

[mikeyjones]

Well what happens when you teach somebody to fish? Do they keep coming back to you the teacher or do they just go out and fish without the added expense? There might be enough people that want to learn at first but is it sustainable?

It is a very valid point so that's where there have to be other revenue streams. Again, I'm not concerned with the details of the busines other than legality. I consider myself to be smart enough and well educated enough to conduct my due diligence before embarking on any new business venture.

If anyone has any definitive input as to my main concern please contact me. Or if you know of any lawyers that specialize in this field, please help me out.

Thanks.

[Nickle]

My take on it is that a Type 06 FFL, and ITAR registration ARE required.

I can't say that 100%, but darned close.

Now, that's the Federal part. PRNJ? I don't live there, but understand they're tough on this stuff.

[Adam10mm]

If you aren't providing the labor, you aren't manufacturing. No FFL needed.

That being said: liability nightmare. Friend tried the same thing, some idiot blew up his gun on ammo he (idiot) loaded on my friend's equipment using his (idiot's) load. An LLC won't protect you. Insurance won't protect you. Not even a general policy. Lawsuit ruined his entire life. Divorce, bankruptcy, etc. Not worth it.

[WILCO]

great idea, but imo a liability nightmare...

Do the research. Put together a business plan. Go from there.

[mikeyjones]

Do the research. Put together a business plan. Go from there.


The business plan hinges on the legality issues. There's no point in going through with everything only to come to a roadblock later.

[SharpsShooter]

I see no legal issues provided you make it mandatory that they sign a release waiver that covers everything from hangnails to blowing their gun up.

I see it as being a sustainable business. If they try and like hand loading, you would be well ahead to sell components retail. Since they learn from you on a face-to-face level, they are more likely to spend their dollars with you for additional components.

Since you are not personally manufacturing ammunition to sell, I see no problem whatsoever.

SS

[dragon813gt]

I don't see how it would be sustainable. How many people on your area want to learn to reload? Then how many will like it and want to continue to do it? Those that will want to continue will not want the inconvenience of having to drive to an establishment to do it. Especially when startup costs and space needed to do it are low. More power to you if you do decide to start this business. I just see no sustainability for it.

[mikeyjones]

Again I really do appreciate the input on sustainability but that's not my question at this time. I will conduct my due diligence on that when the time comes. Right now it's a matter of feasibility and legality.

I completely understand the tenets of business and have done a myriad of business models and plans. If there's anything that I retained from my overpriced education is how to conduct analyses.

[Char-Gar]

When I lived in Farmington New Mexico in the late 80's there was a fellow who did just as you are thinking. He sold reloading supplies in front and then had benches with presses where folks could bring their components and load.

Being a former personal injury lawyer, just going in that place gave me the creeps. I could think of all kinds of possible scenarios, that would put the fellow behind a liability 8 ball.

If you want a reality check, go to your local insurance agent and asked about getting liability insurance for such a venture. If you can get it at all or for a price you are willing to pay, then think about moving forward with the idea. If you can't get it, or the price is sky high, there is a reason for that.

[mikeyjones]

When I lived in Farmington New Mexico in the late 80's there was a fellow who did just as you are thinking. He sold reloading supplies in front and then had benches with presses where folks could bring their components and load.

Being a former personal injury lawyer, just going in that place gave me the creeps. I could think of all kinds of possible scenarios, that would put the fellow behind a liability 8 ball.

If you want a reality check, go to your local insurance agent and asked about getting liability insurance for such a venture. If you can get it at all or for a price you are willing to pay, then think about moving forward with the idea. If you can't get it, or the price is sky high, there is a reason for that.


Char if you wouldn't mind pm ing me I'd like to ask you a few things about the liability side of it. I'm trying to understand how a liability waiver wouldn't cover personal injury. Shooting ranges still exist.

[Char-Gar]

In Texas commercial shooting ranges are required to carry $1,000,000.00 worth of liability insurance as a minimum and they still have everybody sign wavers. At my local range one fellow shot another fellow who went behind the target for some reason. Dumb shot Dumber with a 40 S&W in the arm. They both signed wavers, but the range is being sued.

A liability waver is as useless as tits on a boar hog. I see no reason to write several pages explaining why, but the fellow who depends on a liability waver to protect his assets can join Dumb and Dumber in the dumb line.

The bottom line is if somebody hurts themselves or anybody else with ammo loaded in that shop, you will be sued and your insurance company will settle and if they don't drop your insurance, the premiums will triple the next year.

This may not seem either fair or reasonable, but fair nor reasonable has nothing to do with this stuff.

As night follows the day, some fool will blow us his gun, himself or a bystander with ammo loaded in the shop. If anything is certain, that is it.

[popper]

I agree with Char-gar. If you live in a non-community property state, put everything of value in her name.

[mikeyjones]

I agree with Char-gar. If you live in a non-community property state, put everything of value in her name.

For all of the downfalls of living in NJ, this is a positive. I agree that we live in a litigious society but there are still bounds to liability. I'll have to research some of the precedents (if there any) to fixing your own car in a DIY garage. If your brakes fail after you did them yourself, can you sue the garage? I am not providing the ammo, simply the tools to make it.

[Char-Gar]

For all of the downfalls of living in NJ, this is a positive. I agree that we live in a litigious society but there are still bounds to liability. I'll have to research some of the precedents (if there any) to fixing your own car in a DIY garage. If your brakes fail after you did them yourself, can you sue the garage? I am not providing the ammo, simply the tools to make it.

You are missing the point here. It is not about liability, it is about being sued. You will be sued whether or not there is liability. When somebody gets hurt, they look around for somebody with deep pockets and "tag you are it". It has nothing to do with logic or common sense, or the law. It is about greed.

If you have no insurance, you will have the choice of letting them take a default judgment or spending $50,000 to defend the suit. If you have insurance, they will settle because it is cheaper than defending the suit and then cancel your insurance or triple the rates.

But go ahead and do it, should be fun for a time, then it won't be fun anymore. Don't let anybody deter you from forging ahead into the jaws of your destiny.

Years ago a man named Tracy loan a local drunk his wagon and the local drunk ran over an killed a man with the wagon. They sued Tracy and he said, hey..all I did was loan the guy the wagon! The court held that Tracy knew or should have known that the fellow was not responsible and therefore Tracy was liable.

This has become known as the Doctrine Tracy's Wagon or Negligent Entrustment. So you let somebody use your tools and entrust them to a fool you will be liable for negligent entrustment and/or negligence in failure to supervise. This is not your garage, this is a business that you invite people to come in for a profit. The law hold you to a much higher standard of care than fixing your own brakes in your own garage. If you don't know this, you have no business going into any kind of business venture.

[mikeyjones]

I plan on carrying insurance. If it ever gets to the point of a suit I'll reassess the feasibility of the business

[Jammersix]

It's a great idea! There are no legal problems!

This is the best legal advice available on the internet!

[Wayne Smith]

In this country anyone can sue anyone at anytime. If some lawyer sees $$ a suit is likely to be filed. The question is what will the pay-out be? I haven't seen the data for years, but back then, in the same type of society, the average liability payout for a sued psychologist was ...


$25.73!

As I said above, I carry 2mil/2mil liability, and so does every psychologist in the state. Companies are making big bucks on us.

[Cane_man]

guy murders someone with the bullet he made in your shop... you got problems, with legal fees to defend your innocence being the smallest of them

[mikeyjones]

guy murders someone with the bullet he made in your shop... you got problems, with legal fees to defend your innocence being the smallest of them

Guy murders someone with bullet he bought in Wal-Mart is Wal-Mart getting sued?

It would only be criminal negligence if he wasn't allowed to possess that ammo and I let him. I'm going to be checking id.

[Cane_man]

the guy didnt make the bullet in walmart, walmart didnt make the bullet, he bought an already manufactured product where the manufacturer is licensed to make this product... if you want to do this then go for it you will probably do well, but all it takes is one idiot and a greedy lawyer and you gots yourself more than you bargained for... no shortage of idiots and greedy lawyers these days...

[TXGunNut]

I plan on carrying insurance. If it ever gets to the point of a suit I'll reassess the feasibility of the business

I think you're missing the point. Once you've been sued it's too late. Win, lose or draw you aren't getting out cheap in most cases. Most businesses these days have some risk of a liability suit, getting a jury to understand the principles of safe handloading is something I wouldn't stake my financial future on.

[Wayne Smith]

I think you're missing the point. Once you've been sued it's too late. Win, lose or draw you aren't getting out cheap in most cases. Most businesses these days have some risk of a liability suit, getting a jury to understand the principles of safe handloading is something I wouldn't stake my financial future on.

No, you are missing the point. That's what liability insurance is for. I get sued, my liability insurance takes over the case. If I am smart, I get my own lawyer to oversee what they do, but that is cheap in comparison.

Many of these issues are common to any business. Can you imagine the liability a hasmat trucking company carries??

[theperfessor]

I'd just like to see what the cost per year would be for insurance, licenses, and other operating expenses etc. Then I'd like to know how many hours a year you plan to operate. Can you charge enough, and will you have the volume of business needed to meet that cost?

My gut says the profit isn't there, but I've been wrong before.

[Duckiller]

Mikey go for it. You know enough to check with local ATF, Chief of Police, zoning/building official and an attorney knowledgeable in NJ law. There used to be a great reloading shop in the San Fernando valley of the City of Los Angeles. Sold only componets, presses and dies and other tools. No gun, no ammo. After 10-15 years owner closed it down and moved out of California. He just got tired of being harassed by the City of Los Angeles. I assume you can address legal and liability problems, Then deal with politics. If senior staff of zoning/planning depts and COP think your shop is a good idea then you probably won't be harassed too much. If the senior staff of city/county don't like your idea, you are going to have problems that only campaign contributations can cure. Good luck. I miss the reloading shop.

[Adam10mm]

I'd just like to see what the cost per year would be for insurance, licenses, and other operating expenses etc. Then I'd like to know how many hours a year you plan to operate. Can you charge enough, and will you have the volume of business needed to meet that cost?

My gut says the profit isn't there, but I've been wrong before.
Well let's take the 06 FFL approach on the safe side.

FFL: $30 for 3 year term, so $10 annually
ITAR: $2,250 annual registration fee for being a manufacturer of a defensive article
Insurance for product liability: $2,100 annually
TOTAL: $4,360 in licensing, registration, and insurance.

That's excluding any required local, county, state licensing or registration fees. Frankly, if you can't even gross that much in sales annually, stay home.

[jmort]

"Guy murders someone with bullet he bought in Wal-Mart is Wal-Mart getting sued?"

Retailer sells lettuce with e-coli. Producer/farmer/distributor/wholesaler/retailer all get sued. Product liability, at least here in California, extends from manufacturer to seller, so the short answer is yes. Typically, it will be the firearm that is the focus of a lawsuit. If you are selling cast bullets, I doubt you would get dragged into a lawsuit.

Now if it were me, I would forget product liability insurance and get an LLC properly set up so you can lower the cost to do business to around $2,500.00, plus LLC, per year. One of the best ways to avoid a lawsuit is to be judgment proof and having insurance is the exact opposite.

[Adam10mm]

"Guy murders someone with bullet he bought in Wal-Mart is Wal-Mart getting sued?"

Retailer sells lettuce with e-coli. Producer/farmer/distributor/wholesaler/retailer all get sued. Product liability, at least here in California, extends from manufacturer to seller, so the short answer is yes. Typically, it will be the firearm that is the focus of a lawsuit. If you are selling cast bullets, I doubt you would get dragged into a lawsuit.
Yup. If you are involved in the supply chain, you are liable. Why do retailers have liability insurance? It isn't for the "slip and fall" moron in the store, it's to cover their butt when their suppliers fail. Ronald Reagan said to "follow the money". That's exactly where "victims" go.

[dtknowles]

I could see how this idea might add a little money to an existing business but I can see how it could stand on its own. Only the most expensive reloading equipment could demand enough rental to create enough revenue. How much would you pay per hour to rent a casting furnace and molds???? Now maybe I would pay to rent a top of the line progressive machine, one that normally I would not consider buying (case and bullet feed, powder checker etc.) or an automated casting machine. You can make money leasing out equipment is a profitable enterprise and you can allow yourself a lot of leeway for personal use but it must be equipment that is in demand. Most reloading equipment is durable and holds it value well so that is a plus.

Tim

[dtknowles]

More on topic, legality wise, the equipment rental approach put the burden of how the equipment was used on the renter not the owner. Provide the renter with a copy of the equipment manufacturers instructions and get them to sign a waiver and you are good.

The components selling needs to be clearly separate from the equipment renting. Selling someone components along with the rental could establish a liability for the seller since you now to informed as to what the renter could be planning.

I almost had a conniptions at a gun shop a couple years ago when two guys came in and bought a couple pounds of pistol powder and some cannon fuse. I was not concerned with the buyers I could tell what they intended, they were going to play with it but if they screwed things up and hurt themselves I feared for the gun shop owner.

Tim

[Char-Gar]

Couple of points..

1. If you form any kind of corporate business entity, the liability of that entity is indeed limited to the assets of that corporate entity. It also protects the shareholders from individual liability. However..and this is a big however..

A. It does not protect the directors and managers from personal liability for their negligent acts in managing and directing. That is why they have "Director's Insurance" as their is great personal liability.

B. It does not protect the employees from personal liability for their negligent acts.

2. This issues of wavers, let's take a look at that;

A. A waver to be valid requires the individual signing it to give informed consent. A mere piece of paper filled with boiler plate won't do it. It has to be constructed in such as way and to indicate the person signing it was indeed aware of the content.

B. Even if you have a valid waver, it only extends to the person signing it. The person on the range that gets hit and injured with flying bits of a gun did not sign the waver, and he will have a go at you.

3. There will be no liability for the criminal acts of another that used ammo loaded in the shop.

Bottom line is there is way to much bogus legal information being handed out on this and other threads by people who don't have a clue about the law.

The real bottom line is if a fellow came into my office wanting to set up a business, I would gladly do all the legal stuff required to set up the business for $350.00 an hour, because that is how lawyers make money.

If the same fellow asked me my personal opinion and whether it was a good idea or not, I would tell him to open up a shoe repair shop. It would give a much better return on his investment in equipment and have far less liability risk. Not all business ideas are good ideas. Folks tend to think of their ideas in the same vein as they think of their children, i.e., they are perfect and deny their shortcomings and downfalls.

The fact that somebody else tried the same idea and got away with it for a time, does not make a bad idea a good idea. It just means it has not blown up in his face..yet. Being somebody's dream does not mean it is a dream worth perusing. A long term successful business starts with a good idea. The subject of this threat is not a good idea.

That is it gents, I am done with this thread. Everybody can do what they want to do, it is not my place in life to correct every piece of faulty thinking I run across or protect people from themselves. It can't be done anyway.

[mikeyjones]

Couple of points..

1. If you form any kind of corporate business entity, the liability of that entity is indeed limited to the assets of that corporate entity. It also protects the shareholders from individual liability. However..and this is a big however..

A. It does not protect the directors and managers from personal liability for their negligent acts in managing and directing. That is why they have "Director's Insurance" as their is great personal liability.

B. It does not protect the employees from personal liability for their negligent acts.

2. This issues of wavers, let's take a look at that;

A. A waver to be valid requires the individual signing it to give informed consent. A mere piece of paper filled with boiler plate won't do it. It has to be constructed in such as way and to indicate the person signing it was indeed aware of the content.

B. Even if you have a valid waver, it only extends to the person signing it. The person on the range that gets hit and injured with flying bits of a gun did not sign the waver, and he will have a go at you.

3. There will be no liability for the criminal acts of another that used ammo loaded in the shop.

Bottom line is there is way to much bogus legal information being handed out on this and other threads by people who don't have a clue about the law.

The real bottom line is if a fellow came into my office wanting to set up a business, I would gladly do all the legal stuff required to set up the business for $350.00 an hour, because that is how lawyers make money.

If the same fellow asked me my personal opinion and whether it was a good idea or not, I would tell him to open up a shoe repair shop. It would give a much better return on his investment in equipment and have far less liability risk. Not all business ideas are good ideas. Folks tend to think of their ideas in the same vein as they think of their children, i.e., they are perfect and deny their shortcomings and downfalls.

Thanks for the breakdown. By your own admission you WERE a personal injury lawyer. Whether or not you are still practicing is irrelevant to me. As a personal injury attorney, your instinct is to point out potentially liable parties and situations in order to dig into the deepest pockets possible. Just to offset your fees, there has to be a substantial settlement. The point I'm driving at is that you have to look for negatives to get paid sometimes omitting the positives when evaluating others ideas.

Whether or not this is a profitable/"good" idea, I don't know yet. I haven't sat down and run the numbers. That said, I have started other business ventures in the past and sold them for considerable profit. I would classify myself as a "serial entrepreneur". If the numbers make sense to me, I will give it a go.

If the world was run by personal injury attorneys, we wouldn't have most modern luxuries such as cars or microwaves.

[Char-Gar]

I had an idea last night so I wanted to get your opinions on this.

Let's say I wanted to open a reloading shop where people could come in and use my equipment to make their own ammo and I would charge for use of my equipment, instruction and component cost. I assume since components aren't regulated, there wouldn't be any legal issues. Is there something that I'm missing?

It would be like a diy garage.

Thanks.

You seem to forget your original question. You asked if you were missing something on the legal side and you did. You don't like my answer, so your response is to say...You just say that because you were a personal injury lawyer...like that nullifies the content. That has the intellectual content of a woman telling her husband, you only say that because your are a man.

So continue your life as a serial entrepreneur or whatever you are. If your entrepreneurial ventures had been a success you would not need to ask the above question. If they have not been successful, then you need to ask the question why? Could it be you reject information that doesn't feed your fantasy? Lots of folks only want feedback that affirms their preconceived notions, and that seems to be the case here.

Bottom line is, I was not trying to rain on your parade. I was trying to give you the information you requested and hopefully not turn your life and the lives of your family into a living hell of litigation and judgments. Forge ahead, damn the law and lawyer, full speed ahead in to jaws of your destiny.

When your world turns to caca, don't play the victim card, just man up and admit you did it to yourself.

[Jammersix]

Ronald Reagan said to "follow the money".

Actually, President Reagon was quoting Deep Throat, the anonymous source who broke Watergate to the press when he said that.

[mikeyjones]

You seem to forget your original question. You asked if you were missing something on the legal side and you did. You don't like my answer, so your response is to say...You just say that because you were a personal injury lawyer...like that nullifies the content. That has the intellectual content of a woman telling her husband, you only say that because your are a man.

So continue your life as a serial entrepreneur or whatever you are. If your entrepreneurial ventures had been a success you would not need to ask the above question. If they have not been successful, then you need to ask the question why? Could it be you reject information that doesn't feed your fantasy? Lots of folks only want feedback that affirms their preconceived notions, and that seems to be the case here.

Bottom line is, I was not trying to rain on your parade. I was trying to give you the information you requested and hopefully not turn your life and the lives of your family into a living hell of litigation and judgments. Forge ahead, damn the law and lawyer, full speed ahead in to jaws of your destiny.

When your world turns to caca, don't play the victim card, just man up and admit you did it to yourself.

Pm sent since continued bickering doesn't add to the thread.

[Char-Gar]

Pm sent since continued bickering doesn't add to the thread.

PM answered, though probably not to your liking. I don't see this as bickering, but a failed attempt to educate and inform.

[mikeyjones]

I think this thread has run its course. I'm getting in touch with a lawyer in NJ and I'm going to discuss the intricacies with him.

[Ickisrulz]

I had an idea last night so I wanted to get your opinions on this.

Let's say I wanted to open a reloading shop where people could come in and use my equipment to make their own ammo and I would charge for use of my equipment, instruction and component cost. I assume since components aren't regulated, there wouldn't be any legal issues. Is there something that I'm missing?

It would be like a diy garage.

Thanks.

My thought is that with a DIY garage, people who do it themselves will come because they will have access to expensive equipment that they do not need on a daily basis (enough to justify purchase), and an enclosed place to work. I have used Auto Hobby Shops a couple times in the Air Force. However, those wanting to load their own ammo can easily purchase the tools for just a couple hundred dollars and then make their products in the comfort of their own homes. Instruction is available for free on the internet, friends, books, etc. In other words, I don't see enough business to support this type of thing.

[Jammersix]

I think this thread has run its course. I'm getting in touch with a lawyer in NJ and I'm going to discuss the intricacies with him.

If you pay him for his opinion and your business is going to be located in NJ, this is the wisest choice and the best possible course.

Legal advice off the internet, even from a lawyer, is for fools.

[Adam10mm]

Actually, President Reagon was quoting Deep Throat, the anonymous source who broke Watergate to the press when he said that.
So if Reagan quoted DT and in doing so spoke aloud, then Reagan did in fact say those words in that order at some point in his life, thus "Reagan said" is a true statement. Yay I win!

:kidding: