Question for 44 Man.

[Changeling]

Jim, when we were talking onetime you told me about a mold you had made and mistakenly cut the heel band of the mold "very thin" by bullet standards, but it shot just GREAT!
I can't remember what caliber bullet we were talking about but it came to mind since I was thinking about it.

If you remember what caliber it was, can you fill me in on the particulars, like how thick was the base band ?

Changeling

[44man]

It was for the .475. It shoots so good I did the same for my .500 JRH. The base bands are .085".
I found a few pictures. 7319073186

[Changeling]

It was for the .475. It shoots so good I did the same for my .500 JRH. The base bands are .085".
I found a few pictures. 7319073186

Is there any particular reason you kept the "aditional bands" at a greater width than ",085" ? They seem to be .100 or larger (just guessing), or was it just an eye type thing from experience, relative to how the bullet looked ?

I'm back to designing another bullet and am having a little trouble with a couple things, but getting them worked out.

[44man]

No reason, just cut them by eye on the lathe. I don't do any figuring on paper at all, just want at least two GG's. I put the cutter, say "looks good" and cut a groove. Sometimes I try to even them out. Same with the meplat and ogive, I file them until I like them.
Too much fuss is done about design.
I don't like a boolit with one large GG so I spread the same amount of lube between grooves. Does not seem to matter where but seems to balance a boolit better. Square bottom or round means nothing either. Just need a little draft so they fall out of the mold.
Both of these boolits are so accurate, if I can see a 1" target at 100, I will hit it. Nothing at all to do with experience or pictures on paper.
I look at some of the Keith boolits with those GG's and don't see them shooting.
Just make it look good.
Maybe the worst thing to do is to make the nose reach the end of the cylinder, leave some space there. Boolit jump means zip-zero!
Notice my crimp, just enough. I have no boolit pull, depend on tension.
Then the front band and rear band, I read too much about how large they must be, to find it does not matter. Relax, go with the flow.

[Changeling]

Thanks, I have a few ideas and that's what I'll do.

[44man]

I guess I can make it harder because I have no exact dimensions to help.
Guys tweak and twiddle boolits, send me some and I find all shoot great. Might just need a small change in the powder charge.
My hardest job is finding the size to cut a cherry to get the boolit the right size and that changes with diameters, the 30-30 boolits have not been right yet.
Then Lee, Lyman and RCBS never get it right either! [smilie=1:

[Changeling]

Thanks Jim, when I decide on how exactly I want to make it, be it right or wrong, it will be a design I have been thinking about for some time.

After I get it made I'll come up and we will run things through your target range. That will tell the whole story real quick, LOL.

Besides, I want to see you shoot through those soda cans at 100 yards again, that was just plain AWESOME!!

[44man]

Sounds great, come up anytime.
We are going to cast and shoot today, I am going to work on a shotgun shell at 100 with the .500. Kind of crazy with a 4 minute Ultra Dot!

[44man]

73646OK, went down and shot. I taped a shotgun shell to paper at 100 yards. Took 2 shots, first was 1/2" right, second got it. Red dot blotted it out. .500 JRH with the 440 gr. Range was dark with shade so the shell was a pepper spot. I was out of my element but it worked.

[Changeling]

I remember your shooting range very well! Those 100 yd shots of yours is something I will never forget!!!

I'm going to have Mr. Myers at Accurate molds help me on the dsign. I figure he is the engineer, so I am going to tell him what I want/direction and see what we can come up with.

Take care, say hello to your wife for me.

[44man]

I remember your shooting range very well! Those 100 yd shots of yours is something I will never forget!!!

I'm going to have Mr. Myers at Accurate molds help me on the dsign. I figure he is the engineer, so I am going to tell him what I want/direction and see what we can come up with.

Take care, say hello to your wife for me.
Sure will.
You will be happy with the mold, they are good people.

[Changeling]

Hi Jim, another question. This is in regard to .45 caliber revolvers.

Did you ever have any problems with your .45's relative to accuracy out to 100 yds because of an "overlarge" meplat? If so is there a "cut off" size that one should consider in meplat diameter ? I'm talking in the 1100-1200 fps range, or maybe even a little less?

[44man]

No, once worked for accuracy with the proper spin, I never found any problems with the flat nose. Most of my boolits are 77% to 80% meplats. The .475 is around 77% as is the .500.
I like the 335 gr LBT WLN for the .45 and it seems to be 80% to 81%. It shoots best at 1160 fps. Need a strong gun, not one of the small ones.
I have shot a lot of deer with both WLN and WFN boolits and can't really see any difference in how they kill.
I do see a difference between the .475 and .500 JRH, the .475 is a hammer and most deer just drop but those I hit with the .500 run with no blood trails. The heavier boolit just does not slow down in deer and it pokes a hole so even though larger in diameter, it needs some expansion. Not enough resistance with behind the shoulder shots, need to hit bone. I shot a buck with the JRH last season at 120 yards, in front of the left shoulder and out behind the right shoulder. He ran towards me 120 yards and I found no blood to where I hit him. Strange stuff!

[Clay M]

Kind of odd, because I have shot deer with my .50/90 sharps that dropped in there tracks. With the .50/90 I am shooting a 500 grain bullet at around 1200 fps with 100 grains of 1F.I have heard that the .500 S&W doesn't kill well at the higher velocities,because the bullet does penetrate straight through. It turns.I will try to keep my hunting loads down around 1300FPS.
Then again ,from what you are saying I may be better off with the Hornady 350 grain XTP bullet in the .500 rather than a cast bullet ,for hunting.

[subsonic]

I think it has to do with bullet design and impact speed.

I think the .500JRH was probably slowing down by 120yds (could test this) and bullet design is more complex than just putting a flat nose on it.... the ogive and nose length seems to matter as well. Not sure what "ideal" is, but it's pretty obvious when it's "right".

[outdoorfan]

Kind of odd, because I have shot deer with my .50/90 sharps that dropped in there tracks. With the .50/90 I am shooting a 500 grain bullet at around 1200 fps with 100 grains of 1F.I have heard that the .500 S&W doesn't kill well at the higher velocities,because the bullet does penetrate straight through. It turns.I will try to keep my hunting loads down around 1300FPS.
Then again ,from what you are saying I may be better off with the Hornady 350 grain XTP bullet in the .500 rather than a cast bullet ,for hunting.

Yes, but aren't you using a softer boolit that expands well? Jim is using hard boolits.

[Clay M]

Actually I was using wheelweight (air cooled).My rifle has a very slow twist.I am not disputing what he said,just telling my experience with the Sharps.Of all the killing I have done with a handgun,I have always had the best luck with semiwadcutters cast out of straight wheelweight (air cooled)
I have had a lot of jacketed bullets in handguns fail on deer. The only one I trust is the Hornady XTP or the Speer gold dot or deep curl.

[Changeling]

No, once worked for accuracy with the proper spin, I never found any problems with the flat nose. Most of my boolits are 77% to 80% meplats. The .475 is around 77% as is the .500.
I like the 335 gr LBT WLN for the .45 and it seems to be 80% to 81%. It shoots best at 1160 fps. Need a strong gun, not one of the small ones.
I have shot a lot of deer with both WLN and WFN boolits and can't really see any difference in how they kill.
I do see a difference between the .475 and .500 JRH, the .475 is a hammer and most deer just drop but those I hit with the .500 run with no blood trails. The heavier boolit just does not slow down in deer and it pokes a hole so even though larger in diameter, it needs some expansion. Not enough resistance with behind the shoulder shots, need to hit bone. I shot a buck with the JRH last season at 120 yards, in front of the left shoulder and out behind the right shoulder. He ran towards me 120 yards and I found no blood to where I hit him. Strange stuff!

Thanks Jim, we talked before about projectile speed/caliber,weight/meplat so I know what you are saying. It really is a very hard equation to "Crack", that is what I'm trying to do now, things are looking up now! I'll take all of this into the final final drawings and produce what I want.

Take care, talk to you later.

[Clay M]

The next deer I shoot with the Sharps may run 100 yds. You never can tell. They all respond differently depending on a lot of other factors beside bullets and ballistics.
I would not hesitate to hunt elk with the .50/90 though, I am confident in the rifle, bullet, and load.

[44man]

Yes, every deer is different. The first one I shot with the JRH was facing me and I shot through the entire body, lungs were not exploded but the liver, stomach and guts were exploded. Time in transition is what I figure, enough slow down to reduce the pressure wave from the nose. All shots on deer have been straight line penetration. The boolit starts at 1350 fps so I figured long range would make it work but it sure didn't and it was the same with a 25 yard shot, no blood to be found so it took me time to find the one. There is just not enough to a deer sideways.
I water drop for accuracy as shown by the small targets I can hit.
A larger animal is what the .500 needs with my boolit.
Now the .44 will look like every drop of blood came out in a very short distance.
The old saw of just having a larger diameter boolit has not held water. The alloy still needs to be worked for the animal.

[Clay M]

Your experience with the bullet is good to know.I will be using the Hornady 350 gr XTP in my .500 this fall.

[outdoorfan]

Yes, every deer is different. The first one I shot with the JRH was facing me and I shot through the entire body, lungs were not exploded but the liver, stomach and guts were exploded. Time in transition is what I figure, enough slow down to reduce the pressure wave from the nose. All shots on deer have been straight line penetration. The boolit starts at 1350 fps so I figured long range would make it work but it sure didn't and it was the same with a 25 yard shot, no blood to be found so it took me time to find the one. There is just not enough to a deer sideways.
I water drop for accuracy as shown by the small targets I can hit.
A larger animal is what the .500 needs with my boolit.
Now the .44 will look like every drop of blood came out in a very short distance.
The old saw of just having a larger diameter boolit has not held water. The alloy still needs to be worked for the animal.


Jim, I don't see why you couldn't stand your JRH hunting boolits up in a pan of water and torch the noses of a few to anneal them so that they'll expand a little.

[44man]

Jim, I don't see why you couldn't stand your JRH hunting boolits up in a pan of water and torch the noses of a few to anneal them so that they'll expand a little.
It might work. I have time until hunting season to experiment and will give it a go.
I still have a deer and a half to eat yet too. Tough when the wife makes hot dogs for supper! :x

[Clay M]

It might work. I have time until hunting season to experiment and will give it a go.
I still have a deer and a half to eat yet too. Tough when the wife makes hot dogs for supper! :x

A good many women would rather eat hot dogs than gov't Billy goats..
Actually my wife hates deer meat so when I kill a deer I find some poor folks down the road and give it to them.We ate deer meat for about twenty years and I guess she finally got tired of it.