Smelting range scrap with total metal j's

[tengaugetx]

Smelted some bullets last night the wife and I picked from the burm at the gun club. What do you guys do about the ones with total metal jackets? I ended up just scooping them out with the other jackets and putting them in a bucket. They really are a pain.
I also had some of the open ended bullets that did not want to give up the lead inside. The oxidation on the leaded end of the bullet didn't want to let the lead out.
I am smelting on a fish cooker with a cast iron skillet with an 8 on the handle. I am using a 4" diameter or so fryer strainer to scoop and shake the jackets. If I shake the jackets too hard they don't want to stay in the strainer. Do I need a deeper pot and bigger strainer or is there some trick for these heavily oxidized bullets? Thanks

[RoGrrr]

tengaugetx
Welcome to our community. If you have any questions, feel free to ask and join in with any of your experiences. We want to hear everything. I've learned plenty in the time I've been on here and share my experiences and knowledge freely. I've also posted a number of pics showing some of my equipment and am always open to new ideas so I can improve what I do.
While there are some boolits that look like they are FULLY jacketed, I've found some of those that are simply PLATED - big difference.
Simple thing for all of those looking like fully jacketed is to simply lay them on the concrete and smash them with a hammer. This will crack what you see. If they are plated, you will find the shell after the core has melted out. I've found quite a few of them in my remnants.
Be aware that there is a possibility that a jacketed boolit will pop in the melt and spray molten lead out if the internal pressure gets too high (think of shaken soda can spraying when opened). This is why they recommend opening the jacket in some manner. Some fellas use dikes to cut the jacket. I don't bother. If the lead doesn't come out, I just don't worry since I have enough ore that I'm not worried.
I use a stainless steel kitty litter scooper to lift the jackets out of the melt. I do shake some but not that much. I do get some lead dripping out of what I lift out but not that much. Then I use a stainless spoon to skim off the dross. I typically smelt a couple hundred pounds of ore at a time.

[Pb Burner]

+1 on smacking them with a hammer till you see a crack in the jacket. Usually only takes one or two wacks. Even a very small crack in the jacket will let the molten lead out.

[tengaugetx]

Thanks, for the kind words. Up until now it has been wheel weights and plumbing lead and I've only done that a few times.
Do you sort the and hit them with a hammer before you put them in the pot? Seems like alot of bullets to go through before you got the others smelted down. Plus alot of mine are pretty dirty. Do you wash yours so you can identify the plated bullets? I thought about hitting the ones I have already run through the process and discarded with the empty jackets. I have about half a five gallon bucket full of jackets and the ones that the lead didn't melt out.
I purposely brought my material temp up slowly and try not to let it get too hot. I had though about a bullet popping open because of the heat.

[zidave]

I use wire cutters and cut a hole into the side but smashing it with a hammer works too.
Cleaning is not necessary as the grime and dirt will float on top of the molten lead. If you removed one that you didn't puncture, let it cool then puncture it and throw it back in. Get every ounce of lead you can.

[RoGrrr]

As shown in several threads (including 186LBS) I wash all my ore even tho several recommend against doing so.
As I wash my ore, I have a pretty good look at almost every boolit during that stage but again I don't worry about the full jackets. I've caught several fully loaded cartridges during this procedure. If I happen to catch a fully enclosed boolit, I'll set it aside and hammer it but it's not a priority with me. If I catch one after the smelt I'll set it aside.
Also, I don't worry about ramping temperature to guard against sprays. I place window screen on top of my furnace to stop any spray/tinsel fairy/devil woman.
Nor do I separate jacketed from cast as some do. Granted, the jacketed boolits have a core of softer lead which is going to change the BHN of the ingot but in any case, anything I have is going to perform better than I am able to so I just don't worry about that. I haven't built a hardness tester yet and when I finally do, it will simply be for my own curiosity. I won't bother trying to adjust hardness for any reason. And since I won't be selling any ingots or boolits, it doesn't matter the BHN.
I'm fortunate that most everything I smelt is range ore and I don't worry about zinc or antimony content and/or removing that at any certain temperature as some people do.

[Sergeant Earthworm]

Because most range scrap contains relatively few FMJ bullets, I just skim them off with the jackets and other dross using a stainless steel spoon. To me the time it takes to open FMJs just isn't worth the little bit of lead inside.

To clean dry range lead I put about ten or so pounds at a time into a five gallon bucket with a lid on, shake it for about 30 seconds which causes dirt to settle to the bottom, leave the lid on long enough to let the dust settle, then scoop the bullets out into a different container and repeat the process to get rid of as much dirt as possible until I have enough to melt. I also flux and skim repeatedly before making ingots to get rid of as much dross as possible. When re-melting the ingots I use a different pot and flux/skim repeatedly again. A little tiny piece of steel jacket or dirt on the surface of a cast boolit can scratch the bore badly.

Every time I melt I leave an inch or so of lead in the pot as it seems to help the melting process along the next time. Some casters will tell you don't ever add more scrap to the pot after melting, and there are a couple of good reasons for not doing so: 1. because of the possibility of inadvertently adding moisture to the melt which can result in an explosion (I know a guy who had that happen and had molten lead flying all over the place), and 2. because molten lead can splash out of the pot. My experience is that if you are careful you can add more using a stainless steel ladle or spoon after the melt.

One other thing: although tracers are prohibited at the club where I collect range lead, there are still a few lawless types who shoot them, so I am very cautious about making sure there are no tracers added to the melt. An unburned tracer accidentally added to the pot could make for a very exciting day.

[RoGrrr]

SIR, Sergant SIR
I collect my ore from the pistol range where there are plenty of FMJs but almost all of them are open on the base so it's not much of a problem for me. I think of the thousand pounds of ingots I've poured, I haven't found more than a dozen or so fully jacketed boolits. No tracers, either. Tracers are usually rifle caliber, shot on the rifle range and I'd think they bury themselves into the berm, never to be seen again. In fact, at the times I've been helping the management erect replacement target stands on the rifle range, I haven't found enough boolits to even half fill one of my pockets.
Since I operate on a larger scale than you apparently do, I wash my ore, dry for a day or so in the sun and then smelt a couple hundred pounds or more. I spend anywhere from 2 to 4 hours at the smelter. And like you, I don't drain my furnace empty. I agree that remnant lead aids overall melting time.
I dump ore into melt but I actually dump it onto my litter scooper so it doesn't splash as it hits the melt. I've also had occasion to smelt damp ore but my cover screen solves that problem.

You've given me an idea about tracers. I have a handful of tracer projectiles so I think I will do my next smelt session outside away from the house and I'll rig up to drop a tracer into the molten lead from a distance. Might yield some good video, which I'll post.

[Sergeant Earthworm]

If it is open at the base is it an FMJ? Sounds like one of those things that make you go "hmmmm..." Living near a military installation I am a little concerned about ammo purloined from rifle ranges by America's finest finding it's way into the berm. An armor piercing incendiary tracer in the pot would be especially exciting.

True enough, my typical range scrap melting session is about 50 pounds or less. Many times the FMJs are deformed enough that the melted lead runs out without additional prompting.

Washing and drying just seems a bit of a hassle which is why I quit doing it. After my buddy's experience with the exploding melt I guess I became a little neurotic about water getting into the pot.

p.s. please don't call me sir, I work for a living... 8-)

[RoyEllis]

p.s. please don't call me sir, I work for a living... 8-)

LOL! I recall being stupid & making the mistake of calling my DI "Sir" once and ONLY once. Seems it was sometime around '69 IIRC. Found out real quick NCO's do not like to be called "sir" in any way, shape nor form.

[btroj]

I just dump the bullets in the pot and melt em down. No hammering or cutting for me. I can spend the same amount of time gathering more bullets to melt down.

[tengaugetx]

I just dump the bullets in the pot and melt em down. No hammering or cutting for me. I can spend the same amount of time gathering more bullets to melt down.

I was wondering about the time issue myself. I'm going to look at maybe seeing if I can shake the bullets and jackets in a bucket to separate them. Hoping the tmj bullets will be heavy enough to go to the bottom of the bucket. Then I can just hit everything I get out or save them for hard times. I don't think separating and hitting before smelting would be time effective compare to picking more bullets. At the same time I hate to waste any lead. But, I will always have a supply of bullets in the burms at the club.

[btroj]

That is how I look at it. Ever pop I hear at the range is one more bullet to be found.

My time is better spent gathering more bullets than hitting each with hammer or sorting them. I refuse to sort thru an entire 5 gal bucket of bullets.

In the end you need to decide what you want out of it. I am quite satisfied with my results and the time/benefit ratio is in my favor.