Annealing checks Sticky?

[MT Gianni]

This is an answer to requests of annealing how to's. The method is not mine but borrowed shamelessly and adapted from another poster somewhere, sometime. I don't want to get into the "why's" of annealing gas checks, if you are here you probably know what you want to have happen.
I use a pipe nipple and caps to anneal in. I get a 1"x4" nipple but you could use any larger size to get the job done. I prefer black iron pipe but if you can only get galvanized we will deal with that later. Check the pipe for burrs, thread material, or oils and remove them. Thread the pipe cap onto the nipple hand tight. There is no need to use a thread compound. Place a 1/2 sheet of toilet paper, 1/2 a business card or some shredded paper in the pipe and fill with checks. [Save a few GC's to compare the finished product to.] It is unimportant where the paper is in the pipe. It's purpose is to smoke and displace oxygen. Tighten the other cap hand tight and place it in a heat source for 1/2 hour to 2 hours. This can be a wood fire, charcoal barbeque [Do not use a smoker with food inside with a galvanized pipe nipple] or lead pot. After the pipe has heated for a convinient time, one hour is what I use, fish the nipple out and let it cool. Remove the caps and the checks should be softer and less springy than the originals were. The paper should be burnt to a crisp letting you know that the heat went through into the checks.
Do not put a galvanized nipple anywhere you do not want zinc. This means don't bbq with it in there, not in a smoker and especially not in the bottom of your melt whether smelting or casting. After a bbq while the coals are cooling is a great time to anneal.
Pipe threads fit tight after being heated and can be a real challenge to remove. This experience comes from gas pipe after a house fire. You do not need a lot of heat, just enough to uniformly raise the temperature to 340F-450F and cool slowly. Over time you may need to replace your annealing set up.
Please post results and refinements. I prefer this method to dropping a few ontop of the melt and dippering them out hoping that they are done.
Gianni.

[Char-Gar]

I dump 1K of 30 cal or smaller checks into a 6" cast iron skillet and place it on he kitchen range on high for one hour. For larger number, I use a larger skillet of cut the number of checks in half. I then turn off the burner and let them cool down to room temp.

I turn on the vent hood to take care of any smoke. I give the checks a stir every fifteen minutes or so. There is nothing magic about the hour. More or less might work just as well.

[Unter]

My method is similar to Chargars, I put 1k of checks in a 12" ss pan and put it on my burner that I smelt with. The checks turn pretty colors then turn nearly black. A little sturrage during the process and a trip thru the cleaning media seems to do the trick for this neophyte. Takes about 15 minutes of burn time.

[Unter]

Pics added:

http://i167.photobucket.com/albums/u130/Unter44/Guns/012.jpg

http://i167.photobucket.com/albums/u130/Unter44/Guns/014.jpg

http://i167.photobucket.com/albums/u130/Unter44/Guns/016.jpg

[RBak]

Thanks Unter.....Heck, I think that even I can do this. :-?

Russ...

[Shiloh]

Got a 4"x1 1/4" Black iron nipple and caps. Put it in my Neycraft jewelry casting burnout oven

I can't get a thousand GC's in there so I'll have to do it in two steps. They turn a dark copper color but after a soak in diluted muriatic acid to clean them of any debris that may be scorched on, they are clean, bright and shiny again. Took the oven up to 600 degrees for an hour and let them cool in the oven for several hours after.

Shiloh :castmine:

[Ricochet]

I notice on Corbin's site regarding using their dies to make "Free .224" bullets from cast scrap lead cores and fired .22LR cases, that they recommend first annealing the cases by putting them through a self-cleaning cycle in a kitchen oven.

[Three44s]

MT Gianni,

A tip on loosening the pipe cap after annealing: Place the cap end of your container on an anvil and strike repeatedly with a hammer ..... after each hit or two ..... rotate and strike again. It does not take real hard impacts and if it does not loosen on the first 360 degree rotation .... just keep walking it around and repeat the proceedure.

(This works real well with a large hammer for a portable anvil and a smaller for hitting on plumbing and with stubborn bolts and nuts by "backing" and hitting on the opposite flats)

In fact on severely rusted fittings I have had this work where I removed the fitting BY HAND on an occasion or two.

Temperature reading: There are temp. sticks available in ranges that cover the work you are doing.

In general are you guys then quenching your hot checks? I did not see it mentioned by anyone.

Regards

Three 44s

[NVcurmudgeon]

MT Gianni,

A tip on loosening the pipe cap after annealing: Place the cap end of your container on an anvil and strike repeatedly with a hammer ..... after each hit or two ..... rotate and strike again. It does not take real hard impacts and if it does not loosen on the first 360 degree rotation .... just keep walking it around and repeat the proceedure.

(This works real well with a large hammer for a portable anvil and a smaller for hitting on plumbing and with stubborn bolts and nuts by "backing" and hitting on the opposite flats)

In fact on severely rusted fittings I have had this work where I removed the fitting BY HAND on an occasion or two.

Temperature reading: There are temp. sticks available in ranges that cover the work you are doing.

In general are you guys then quenching your hot checks? I did not see it mentioned by anyone.

Regards

Three 44s

No quenching necessary, just let them air cool. I never have any trouble worth mentioning getting the pipe cap open after annealing. If it won't come off by hand, I stick the nipple in a vise and turn one of the caps with Channelocks. A very slight movement is enough to make the cap hand loose, but then I only tighten the cap just snug to start with.

[Ricochet]

Doesn't really matter with the copper alloys whether you quench or not. You just heat to a temperature where it will recrystallize, hold it there for a while and it softens. It's a one-way deal, no hardening as with steel. You can only work harden the stuff.

[Three44s]

Thanks folks,

I understood with brass case annealing that one water quenched and thought that by extension ..... gas checks would need the same treatment.

Regards

Three 44s

[Ricochet]

Doesn't really matter whether you quench brass to anneal it. It's mainly done for convenience. (And in the case of cartridge cases, to prevent heat from spreading and softening the heads, which are supposed to stay work hardened.)

[GrizzLeeBear]

Ricochet is right. I was doing some research into swaging .224 bullets with spent .22 cases and found a couple articles on annealing the cases so they swage more readily without damage. Quenching brass is done mainly to stop the spread of heat into the head of the case. It does nothing to anneal the brass. It is all done by getting the brass (or copper in the case of gas checks) up to a little over 600 degrees. Unlike ferous (iron and steel) metals, how it cools has nothing to do with annealing brass or copper.

[Irascible]

Any chance of pressure building up in the pipe nipple and exploading?

[C1PNR]

Any chance of pressure building up in the pipe nipple and exploding?
That's one reason to only hand tighten the caps. The air "leaks" out the threads, and then back in during cooling.

I believe I did see where one person drilled a small hole in one of the caps.

As Charger mentioned, the reason for a little paper in there is to consume all the oxygen, resulting in "clean" gas checks.

I do think I've also read where someone ran the checks through a cycle in the vibratory tumbler to remove residue.

[kingstrider]

I'm new to this but what does annealing the gas checks do?

[Doc Highwall]

It will allowed the gas check to be sized with less effort in the sizing die and less force on the bullet nose so it will not be deformed by sizing. The gas check also has less spring back after annealing so that when you remove the boolit from the die the gas check fits tighter.

[anachronism]

If I'm in a hurry, I anneal checks by placing them in a single layer in the bottom of an old LEE lube pan. Then I hit them with the propance torch until they turn red. To clean them afterwards I boil in vinegar, then rinse & tumble. It sounds like a lot more work than it is. I always make sure I get the checks at least red hot, so they end up dead-soft. After that, they fit the base of the bullet like they were cast together.

[Meatco1]

Ok, I give, what's the purpose of boiling them in vinegar?

Thanks,

Richard

[Doc Highwall]

The vinegar is a mild acid solution that helps remove the oxidation that occurs when the gas checks are heated in oxygen. That is why some of the people put them in a pipe and light a piece of paper inside to burn off the oxygen and put the cap on as soon as possible then put the pipe with the gas checks inside where it can be heated to above 600 Deg F.

[Shotgun Luckey]

If you are raising the temp in the pipe to 600 degree's then the paper will light on it's own. Paper ignites at 451 degrees.

See, I DID learn something in high school English class!!! Yes, English class...we read Fahrenheit 451 by Ray Bradbury and that information wa in the book, and the reason for the title, and It stuck.