GT Smiley Case Trimmer????

[seagiant]

Hi,
My Gun Club has a swap/sell meet every few months and I came across this little jewell! Being a hobby machinist could not pass it up! Not a lot of info on the NET,was wondering if anyone is familiar with one of these???

[Bent Ramrod]

There is a writeup on the Smiley trimmer in the Supplement to Sharpe's Complete Guide to Handloading, and I believe it was written up recently in the ARTCA News. (Unfortunately, I can't lay my hands on my copy of the latter at the moment.)

The original Smiley patent was improved in 1948 to the model you have. It was machined from Dural bar stock and could be used to shorten and trim cases, remove primer crimps before the primer was punched out and to ream out primer pockets to larger sizes. It could handle any size case up to .375 H&H, which was the standard for extra length at the time. The 1948 model had a universal shell holder that sounds like the one on yours, but in 1952, this was changed to a step collet holder, presumably like the Forster. The 1952 model was called the 520-X, and the trimmer setup did the inside and outside deburring at the same time as the trimming. Sharpe's writeup has detailed instructions of how to do all these operations; he was quite impressed with the Smiley. This was in the era of the cartridge wildcatter, when a means of shortening cases to exact lengths, without the labor and variability of a tubing cutter, was a very desirable feature.

No mention of the Smiley trimmer shows up in the first edition (1964) of Handloader's Digest. It is obvious why. Smiley's invention could not compete with the cheaper Wilsons and other models that started showing up on the market. There just weren't enough advanced gun cranks willing to pay for the extras that the Smiley could provide. Also, of course, the availability of cheap military brass was steadily dwindling throughout this period. By what I read, you have the Cadillac, if not the Rolls-Royce, of manually operated case trimmers. I couldn't find a price on the Smiley, but, considering the way it was made, it must have been high.

If you were extra lucky, you should have gotten two reamers with threaded stems, one to remove the primer pocket crimp from military shells, and one to enlarge the Frankford Arsenal 0.204" primer pocket to the standard 0.210".

[W.R.Buchanan]

Greg: It reminds me of the Taig Hobby Lathe. But where's the motor? or do you have to hand crank it?

Looks nicely made.

This is what happens when machinists have too much time on their hands. See Jeep Project.

Shooting 3 gun today.

Randy

[bbqncigars]

That is one impressive piece of engineering. It looks like the 'headstock' has adjustable gibs. I shudder to think what that would cost to make today.

[seagiant]

Hi
BR,wow! Thank you for the info! I have Sharpe's book I will look and see if there is any mention of it. I would love someone to come along that I could get the original directions from! All I have with the trimmer is a.22 and .30 cal. pilots for the case necks. I have seen nothing on the primer pocket reamers?

I already own and use the Wilson case trimmer to trim to length and to ream primer pockets. I doubt there is anything better really, but I could not help being impressed with this device and for the price was a "no brainer" to buy.

Cigars, the rear assembly is a dovetail with an actual gib! I will take some more pics later to show some more detail. Thanks!

Randy,you are correct! This guy WAS a Machinist!

[Pressman]

That is the Smiley 4 in 1 trimmer. It is the fourth in a long line of trimmers made by Smiley. He came out with a new design about once a year. Tracking them is difficult do to a lack of printer material. In the early days he ran an ad in every issue of the American Rifleman. That tapered off to new ads after a new model was released and finally he was running ads in Guns magazines I the early 60's. He was out of business before the Handloader's Digest saw its first printing. At that time he was getting up there in years.
There has not been an article in the ARTCA newsletter on Smiley, though there is an almost complete set of his trimmers in the hardware archive.
Ken

[seagiant]

Hi,
Thanks Pressman,I have Phil Sharps 1947 edition with the 1941 suppliment and he does not mention this trimmer any where I see. He does speak on and on about the L.E.Wilson trimmer which I understand as I am a fan myself! Gerold Smiley was a machinist and I have seen a few pics of the other developed models,however not a lot of info can I find. The simplistic genius of the Wilson model might have hurt Smiley I think!

73093
Here is the dovetail with the gib! Pretty neat!
73094
Here you can see the handle for the cutter and the .30 cal insert taped to the base. I see no reason I could not make a set of these out of O-1 tool steel round stock and heat treat them my self. The trimmer can be adjusted for the web of the different cases anyway!
73095
The adjustable holder for the base of the case. The rim slides in and then the knob on the rear can be tightened to lock the case to the trimmer and then turning the crank cuts the case. The cutter not only cuts but also chamfers,which the Wilson does not!

[Bent Ramrod]

My apologies, Pressman and Seagiant, for the misinformation. I had a distinct memory of a drawing of the Smiley trimmer and I thought it was in the ARTCA News (presumably illustrating an article.)

My copy of Sharpe has the 1953 Supplement and the Smiley trimmer writeup is on Pg 133. You can also get an idea of Smiley's concepts and improvements by looking up US Patents 2,406,170, 2,443,807 and 2,744,307 in Google Patents, or just type in "G M Smiley." They show the lathe turning concept, the universal shell holder and the setups for primer pocket operations in the drawings.

[seagiant]

Hi BR,
Is there anyway to get a copy of that article in the Sharpe's book? My suppliment is dated 1941! to early I guess!

[seagiant]

Hi,
Here is a pic of the cutter showing how it cuts and chamfers at the same time! I am still hoping for more info on this trimmer!

[David2011]

What a beautiful piece of hardware! That's the opposite end of the spectrum from the Lee trimmers. It shouldn't chatter. It would probably be less expensive to buy and convert a Taig to duplicate this trimmer than to build a new one today. Very cool.

David

[W.R.Buchanan]

It would be an interesting "home machinst" project. And not beyond anyone with a mill and lathe.Nothing too complicated.

Here's a hot tip for all of you aspiring machinist type out there. It is much easier to make something if you have a drawing of the part than if you are just winging it. Even if you are only making a washer or screw a drawing allows you to plan the job and decide on the squence of events necessary to make the part. I make drawings for just about everything I fabricate in my shop, and some are no more than some dimensions on a post it note or a sketch on a napkin.

It would be great if someone who owned one would take it apart and make drawings of all the parts so the rest of us could duplicate it. :bigsmyl2: GREG!

Randy

[seagiant]

It would be an interesting "home machinst" project. And not beyond anyone with a mill and lathe.Nothing too complicated.

Here's a hot tip for all of you aspiring machinist type out there. It is much easier to make something if you have a drawing of the part than if you are just winging it. Even if you are only making a washer or screw a drawing allows you to plan the job and decide on the squence of events necessary to make the part. I make drawings for just about everything I fabricate in my shop, and some are no more than some dimensions on a post it note or a sketch on a napkin.

It would be great if someone who owned one would take it apart and make drawings of all the parts so the rest of us could duplicate it. :bigsmyl2: GREG!

Randy

Hi Randy,
Oh! Boy! You know how to lay it on a guy! Ha! I will try to be honest here. Even though I think the Smiley is a fine trimmer,I do not think it is as EASY to operate as my Wilson and as fast! Don't get me wrong its nice, but if I had to run a hand operated trimmer a lot it would be the Wilson hands down. I already knew that when I bought it but for what it was I had to get it and will enjoy using it,but for how cheap a Wilson cost there's no contest.

I cleaned everything up on it and polished both sides of the cutter to sort of sharpen it,also changed out the slot screws that adjust the size of the holder with SS allen heads! I think I will make a set of pilots for it and a holder to mount on the wood base to finish it off!

[W.R.Buchanan]

That tool looks like it was made from 2024 Aluminum and Type II anodized.

I used to make all of the parts for a device known as the "Stuart Articulator" It is a jig that duplicates the movements of a human jaw so that a Gnathologist can make replacement teeth that fit your mouth correctly the first time, with little or no adjustment.

All the parts were made from 2024 and Type II anodized which yeilded a flat machine gray finish just like your trimmer has.

I tried using 6061 material but the finish came out completely different and I had to make the parts over. In one of the other posts where I talk about knurling the long thumb screw was the part in question and it came out a light gun blue color. Just one of those little lessons in running a machine shop that you don't get for free!

I still have a bunch of different types of 2024 stock that didn't get used. It makes nice looking parts, but you can't weld it due to the high silicon content.

Randy

[Pressman]

WR, the Smiley's are all painted or left raw color. I am not sure what type of aluminum he used. This is the last trimmer to be painted.
His first trimmer came out in 1944.
I was WRONG regarding the model of Seagiants trimmer, it is the 490 and is the first of a completely new line of trimmers. First advertised in February 1949. There is also a 490 Improved that uses a maple base.
There is also a single purpose case neck cutter tool and a primer pocket reamer tool made just to open up the .210" pockets on FA 45 ACP brass.
Nearly all the trimmers can be fitted with a neck cut off blade. These were useful for converting 30-06 to 8mm Mauser, back in that day.
Another caveat, Smiley uses a small diameter pilot shank, it will not interchange with anything else.

1963 is the last year Smiley is listed as a reloading tool maker in the Gun Digest.
Ken

[W.R.Buchanan]

You know after going back and looking again, does the headstock move in and out on this thing,,,or does the crank spindle move in and out?

Randy

[seagiant]

You know after going back and looking again, does the headstock move in and out on this thing,,,or does the crank spindle move in and out?

Randy

Hi Randy,
I'll try and explain,the knurled knob on the back has 2 functions. It can be pulled to insert a case base into the adjustable holder to get the pilot into the case neck this is spring loaded. Then it can be turned to push a small round piece behind the base of the case to lock or jam the base of the case against the holder to hold it securely!

When you are finished cutting the neck you turn the knob to loosen the base of the case and then pull the knob to make room to take the case out having pulled the case back far enough to clear the neck from the pilot.

The crank spindle with the cutter and pilot is fixed, all adjusting is done with the headstock that holds the base of the case. There is an access cut on the other side of the trimmer than is shown in the pics to access a bolt head so you can adjust the position of the headstock to the cutter, this regulates how much length is cut with the trimmer.

What this means to me is this trimmer is a lot more "busy" than a Wilson and takes a little more time to manipulate. I always liked the Wilson concept of using holders for the case and I have gotten fairly fast with it! As I said before the Smiley does chamfer while cutting but the Wilson does not!

[W.R.Buchanan]

So the forward stop for the headstock is below the case holder? and the headstock is spring loaded to that stop?

Seems like the smart thing to do with it would be to get rid of the crank and adapt a cordless drill or motor of some type to turn the spindle. Then all you would do is change cases, release the headstock, and let the spring feed the case to the cutter?

Randy

[seagiant]

So the forward stop for the headstock is below the case holder? and the headstock is spring loaded to that stop?

Seems like the smart thing to do with it would be to get rid of the crank and adapt a cordless drill or motor of some type to turn the spindle. Then all you would do is change cases, release the headstock, and let the spring feed the case to the cutter?

Randy

Hi,
Yes! I don't see any reason that could not be done,even if you had to make an adapter(which I guess you would) to get it going. That way you could probably leave the motor on and just load and unload a case one behind another!

On another note,I went to Bass Pro Shops Mega Store in International Dr. Orlando (Mickey Mouse Land) and they had ZERO gunpowder and primers! The counterman said when they get a shipment in it last about a day! Go figure!

[Pressman]

Another curious feature of the 490 is the extra hole in the crank arm. It would appear to be a method to change throw on the crank, but I cannot figure out why.
Pictured below is where it all began, the 1944 Smiley trimmer. It was quickly followed by three new models that held teh case vertical using the same crank and guide arrangement.
Ken

73270

[W.R.Buchanan]

One thing to consider when trimming cases is that your case trimmer needs to stop the case on the face of the case head, in order to get a consistant OAL. The whole point is finding a consistant indexing point to locate the case in the trimmer.

Lots either stop on the rim (rims are different thickness') or clamp onto the rims OD with a collet. Clamping on the rim is fine as long as you have a "dead length collet" IE a collet that doesn't move in or out as it is being clamped. A collet that is screwed into a closer is at the mercy of the diameter of the rims of the cases. To give you an idea of how much this can affect the length of a part. With a 5C lathe collet one thousanth in diameter alters the length of the part by .003!

Surprisingly the cheapest method on the market, the Lee Trimmer's Case Holder butts the case head against it's base and defines the length of the case perfectly everytime. It could be used as the basis for a pretty good lathe type trimmer.

Randy

[Bent Ramrod]

Seagiant,

My scanner stopped working, for unexplained reasons, but hopefully you can read the print on these photos.

7403474035

[seagiant]

Hi BR,
Thanks anyway,my eyes aren't that good! I'll try maybe at the library!