44-40 lever action

[Mpape]

I have a umburti reproduction Henry 44-40 lever action that I want to reload for. Do I use the same data for pistol loads? My reload manuals don't have pistol and rifle data.

Thanks

[Dan Cash]

I have a umburti reproduction Henry 44-40 lever action that I want to reload for. Do I use the same data for pistol loads? My reload manuals don't have pistol and rifle data.

Thanks

There are those who push the Uberti 73s but the rifle is still a toggle link 1873 and will bend pretty easily. I would stay with pistol loads suitable for the Colt single action army if it were my gun.

[Brad Phillips]

I would stay in the cowboy type load range of 800 fps or so. I use Unique in my .44-40 loads with a 200 gr. Lee boolit. Your 44-40 brass will last much longer with lower pressure loads.

[missionary5155]

Greetings
And just for the fun of it do not overlook filling a couple cases with 3F. The great thing about using BP is you will never get a boolit pushed back into the case as you compress the powder and the boolit base sits on that "lump". 3F will deliver far better velocity and burns much cleaner. That is my primery powder down here in a 1907 vintage Model 92 44-40. Never loose any brass to pressure problems and will never wonder if I am stressing a rifle.
Mike in Peru

[hightime]

You might enjoy reading posts by Kirk D. I have the same gun that you do and it's great. There's good loads for toggle links in the Lyman reloading book.
I think I read it here, or on Paco Kelly's site

Owen

[cajun shooter]

I own and shoot the Uberti 73 rifles. They are great guns and better than the original rifles because of the better steel we have today. Having said that it is still a toggle bolt action and was never meant to take the same charges as the later model 1892's.
If you load BP then you may load the standard 40 grain load and shoot the rifle for years with no problems. If you only load that other powder then keep it at the loads listed for the toggle bolt guns like the 1860, 1866 and 1873 rifles. There is no difference in the loads for the old Colt revolvers and the rifles.
There is a ton of information on the 73 rifle and all you have to do is hit your search program. Later David

[Four Fingers of Death]

I have a Uberti 73 and also use Pietta Colt Clone revolvers. I am using Trailboss to get rid of squillions of commercial bullets that I had in stock and were given to me after restrictions were placed on big bore handguns in Australia (you can own handguns greater that 38cal, but have to have a special permit, which is easy to get and then can only use them in Single Action Shooting and Silouhette). I also use blackpowder and will convert to full blackpowder behind Big Lube boolits when the stock of commercial cast bullets is gone.

I personally would not try and hot rod the 44/40. The cases are thin and will fail if pushed. The toggle link rifles do not lend themselves to being pushed either.

I also have an 1866 Uberti which is similar in construction, apart from having a brass frame. I was given some Winchester factory rounds with the gun and fired one shot which stretched the frame and caused excessive headspace. The local gunsmith measured the excess, marked the position if the existing pivot hole, cleaned it and welded it up, smoothed it down and re drilled the pivot hole a poofteenth of an inch forward of the old position to adjust the headspace. The rifle is now in specs (albeit, with a slight gap in the sideplate) and shoots like a dream. Clever gunsmith, bordering on magician as far as I can see.

I think I'd be sticking to Trailboss or 3f.

[Wayne Smith]

Use 3F. I use it in my Uberti 1866 and am pushing 1400fps out of a 20" barrel with a case full compressed. Way more velocity than you can get with smokeless and at lower pressures. I'm shooting the MAV big lube 200 gr boolit.

[Four Fingers of Death]

I don't understand the popularity of Trailboss. It cost double the price of a pound of Unique where I am, and the PSI it can create can far exceed 18,000psi like any other smokeless. It's an attempt to go back to the early "Bulk Smokeless" powders, but IMR SR 4759 is still here

TrailBoss is actually cheaper than the other Australian manufactured pistol powders here, meters well and usually 3/4 fills the case preventing double loads. In correct applications, it is a good low pressure powder, but for cases like the 45/70 it develops more pressure than powders in the 4227 range. Maybe because it is made in Australia (whoops, given you another excuse to dislike it, lol) makes it a bit more expensive there. How do Clays, etc compare price wise to the other powders there?

It is less than 2/3 rds the price of Winchester (American made) pistol powders here.

[Four Fingers of Death]

Ithink all Hodgson powders have aways been made away from the US. Scotland was the main supplier in the past,but it has been made here for awhiles now. The Clays series, Varget are all made in Australia, top flight powders as well. No affected by ambient heat, long shelf life, etc.

[MtGun44]

Much of Hodgdon's powder line has been supplied by St. Marks in Fla. They make
Pyrodex in their own factory, and buy a bunch from ADI, of course. No way I
would think poorly of any product because it was made in Australia.

Clays is cheap in the US, not sure why TB is so high but the price has kept me
from even trying it.

Bill

[Four Fingers of Death]

Much of Hodgdon's powder line has been supplied by St. Marks in Fla. They make
Pyrodex in their own factory, and buy a bunch from ADI, of course. No way I
would think poorly of any product because it was made in Australia.

Clays is cheap in the US, not sure why TB is so high but the price has kept me
from even trying it.

Bill

Clays might be cheap as a result of the shotgunners. If it is anything like Australia, there are clay target clubs everywhere and they shoot a bunch of ammo. The last price update I got a week ago, showed Trailboss and Clays as roughly the same price per kilo/lb.

I will have to get a powder cop as I have about 8lb of AS30 which is the quickest Clays powder. It only fills a portion of the case. I am much more comfortable with TrailBoss on the progressive, a double load (highly unlikely,but why take a chance) will overflow the case, which is a great inbuilt safety feature. Bullseye and AS30 are about the same speed (not saying they are interchangeable, but just to give you a guide).

[Sixgun Symphony]

The .44-40 cartridge was made for blackpowder. The 1873 Winchester was made for blackpowder. I don't know why some people want to use smokeless gunpowder.

My advise is to get the Lyman Black Powder Handbook for load information on the .44-40.

[Four Fingers of Death]

What sixgun symphony said. Black is best, the 44/40 case is thin in the mouth and seals the breech off properly keeping the crud,smoke, etc out of the action. The 44/40 does require a level of care when reloading, especially when first feeding (lubed) rounds into resizing die. I have a screwdriver handy to return to round any cases that have been dinged or flattened. Don't be afeered of BP in the 44/40, clean up is easy with a BoreSnake and Ballistol diluted with water 7:1 in a spray bottle (I believe you guys call them a spritzer bottle or somesuch). This concoction is known as 'Moose Milk.' Spray the bore with Moose milk, run the BoreSnake through and If your boolits have adequate lube, you are good to go. My revolvers (Pietta Colt Clones in 44/40) get the same treatment, squirted all over with Moose Milk, hit with a BoreSnake (I do the barrel and cylinders with the snake) and scrub flat surfaces with a toothbrush or similar. Easy peasy, just smells! My late wife used to call it 'Essence of Pole Cat.' My friend in the UK calls it Eau de Cat Pee.

[Sixgun Symphony]

. . .you can own handguns greater that 38cal, but have to have a special permit. . .

The .38 WCF cartridge, aka .38-40, may become more popular if people knew of it. I have seen older DA revolvers chambered in it too.

[Four Fingers of Death]

The .38 WCF cartridge, aka .38-40, may become more popular if people knew of it. I have seen older DA revolvers chambered in it too.

They are 40cal and require the permit as well unfortunately. Silly as all get out, We can buy a 30/30, 38/55 or a 375Win BFR Revolver (or Encore Single Shot pistol I suppose) on a normal pistol club license, as it is below the 38 calibre level.

[Outpost75]

Any powder you can get there which is suitable for 12-ga. loads with 32 grams of shot at 350 metres/sec. is suitable for .44-40 with 200-215 grain lead flatnosed bullet using 1/3 of the 12-ga. load for 32 grams of shot at 350 M/S

[dmize]

From what I have read the main reason for Trailboss was to keep SASS shooters that are Neophytes at reloading from double charging relatively huge *** cases such as the 45 Colt.
The other uses and charge data came later. As for the price issue you have to look at charge weight/volume versus other powders,i.e. 7 grains of Trailboss takes up a lot more physical space than 7 grains of even Unique.
It STARTED as a purpose built powder.
For the record the only time I use the **** is in my 475 Linebaugh and 500 JRH just so my kids can "shoot Daddys guns".
And as far as all the powders being manufactured outside the USA... I think the finger will eventually be pointed at OSHA and the EPA.

[Four Fingers of Death]

What's the OSHA and the EPA (Environmental Protection Agency??). As far as Hodgson's goes with imported powders it is nothing new they have never hesitated to source their stuff from overseas in the past.

[Wal']

Occupational Safety and Health Administration (OSHA),..........Much the same as here in Oz.

http://www.osha.gov/about.html

[Four Fingers of Death]

OK. Our equivalent (Workcover NSW) has just about stopped gun powder supply in my State. They have taken away the trucking companies license to carry gunpowder, which has been delivered by sales reps ever since, but the contract is about to change and I don't know what is going to happen after that.

[dmize]

That is exactly what I was refering to.
Except I believe OSHA has bigger and sharper teeth here in the US.
But we are getting off tr

[Four Fingers of Death]

These guys here have pretty much unlimited powers. In one fell swoop they have shut down one section of the transport industry. No gun powder getting delivered.

[IridiumRed]

I have a Uberti 73 and also use Pietta Colt Clone revolvers. I am using Trailboss to get rid of squillions of commercial bullets that I had in stock and were given to me after restrictions were placed on big bore handguns in Australia (you can own handguns greater that 38cal, but have to have a special permit, which is easy to get and then can only use them in Single Action Shooting and Silouhette). I also use blackpowder and will convert to full blackpowder behind Big Lube boolits when the stock of commercial cast bullets is gone.

I personally would not try and hot rod the 44/40. The cases are thin and will fail if pushed. The toggle link rifles do not lend themselves to being pushed either.

I also have an 1866 Uberti which is similar in construction, apart from having a brass frame. I was given some Winchester factory rounds with the gun and fired one shot which stretched the frame and caused excessive headspace. The local gunsmith measured the excess, marked the position if the existing pivot hole, cleaned it and welded it up, smoothed it down and re drilled the pivot hole a poofteenth of an inch forward of the old position to adjust the headspace. The rifle is now in specs (albeit, with a slight gap in the sideplate) and shoots like a dream. Clever gunsmith, bordering on magician as far as I can see.

I think I'd be sticking to Trailboss or 3f.


Fingers, I have to admit I'm really curious as to what happened with that 1866 Uberti getting stretched out with one round of factory Winchester ?? From what I understand the -CURRENTLY LOADED- Winchester factory 44-40's are pretty anemic. Whether or not they'd cause long term stretching on a brass frame Uberti 1866, I can't speak to that, but.... man... I just find it hard to believe that ONE round would do that.

I seem to recall that Winchester (or at least some of the major American ammo companies) loaded what might be called "hot" and "mild" rounds for some calibers, such as the 44-40. The "Hot" 44-40 rounds would be for 1892 Winchesters & other "strong" actions, while the "mild" rounds would be for 1873 Winchesters and other "weak" actions. And the difference in power/energy/pressure between the hot/mild rounds was significant.... like standard 38 special (non +p) versus full on .357 magnum....

Is it possible that the factory Winchester round you fired was one of the old, hot rounds????

Sorry for the long post, I was just really curious! :)

[Four Fingers of Death]

The croc rifle is one of the very early Ubertis, mid late 60s I think (not sure). My mate used to be a pro fisherman in the Northern Territory and it was the most powerful rifle you could buy without a license. He used it for years killing sharks and crocs which got tangled in the nets and for hunting crocs from a canoe for their skins (now illegal). It has put down countless deer, pigs and a few buffalo as well. My mate saw my 357 Trapper 94 Winchester and was humping my leg for a swap. As I was looking for a cowboy gun, the deal was done. He gave me about four packets of Winchester factory ammo (I got the rifle in 2003 and he said he hadn't used it in 10-15 years. When I got it, the first thing I did was load up one of the factory rounds, open the window of the farm shed and line up a cow pat which I could see in the moonlight, splat! then the rifle was awful hard to open and stiff to operate. Took it to a gunsmith that was a common friend and he played with it and when I got it back, it wasn't real reliable, but I think that was because of the thick rimmed MagTec ammo. I had nothing but trouble over the next few months and the gunsmith realised that the side plate was looser than it should have been and he felt that the frame had been stretched and it turned out the headspace was excessive. He made up a jig to hold the action in the mill, cleaned it, filled the hinge 'hole' with weld to match the action, trimmed it off, then redrilled the hole a few thou closer to the noisy end. No problems since and the factory ammo was got rid of through an old 1892. I don't know if it was that round or the fact that 'that round' was the last straw on the camel's back. Anyway, the rifle looks like sin, but has a good bore and shoots a treat.

[Grapeshot]

Greetings
And just for the fun of it do not overlook filling a couple cases with 3F. The great thing about using BP is you will never get a boolit pushed back into the case as you compress the powder and the boolit base sits on that "lump". 3F will deliver far better velocity and burns much cleaner. That is my primery powder down here in a 1907 vintage Model 92 44-40. Never loose any brass to pressure problems and will never wonder if I am stressing a rifle.
Mike in Peru

I whole heartedly agree. Black Powder, 777, Pinnacle, APP or Pyrodex poured in to the mouth of the case and compress the powder with either a compression die or the boolit and make sure you use a good BP lube on your projectile. Gives you a good velocity without any pressure problems. YMMV.

[Four Fingers of Death]

The 44/40 with a case full of black, gives an excellent roar and usually a nice big flame, great stuff!

I have picked up a 1908 made 1892 with a 19" Octangular barrel. It has a broken extractor and rips a piece out of the case everytime you use it. When I get it going it will probably be my main SASS rifle with well lubed boolits and a case full of fffg. I have another junker 92 which has nice wood, I will probably do a bit of mix and match.