PDA

View Full Version : HFPC Boolits..Piglet Method



Pages : [1] 2

TES
06-06-2013, 05:34 PM
I started reading another thread about various methods and coating materials and chose the Harbor Freight Powder Coat and acetone Method.

I have compared this method of coating against the Hi Tech coating & Copper Plated.

http://imageshack.us/a/img819/5666/p6060449.jpg

http://imageshack.us/a/img856/6084/p6060452.jpg

http://imageshack.us/a/img341/93/p6060451.jpg

http://imageshack.us/a/img4/1840/p6060445.jpg

My test results are nowhere near finished but in this lovely dry climate the Hi Tech dries up and flakes off when tested with a hammer. To be fair these bullets have been in my possession for exactly 2 months.

My HFPC bullets smashed with a hammer showed far less surface distortion and zero flaking. I will test them again when my HFPC boolits turn 2 months old.

http://imageshack.us/a/img560/4555/p6060447.jpg

http://imageshack.us/a/img197/1175/p6060448.JPG



PLEASE KEEP THIS ABOUT THE PIGLET METHOD

mdi
06-07-2013, 12:23 PM
What is your method of application?

wrinkles
06-07-2013, 12:36 PM
I see many posts about this method but no "how to". Would be nice to see a detailed how to with pics.

TES
06-07-2013, 02:07 PM
Well I have tried a few different methods for coating and am still experimenting.

Method 1- Get powder coat and mix in a ratio of 1 table spoon of powder to 3 table spoons of acetone.

A - measure out your acetone and get it into a container I use a mason jar.
B - Measure out a table spoon of powder and slowly mix it into the acetone. I leave two bullets in the bottom to act as an agitator.
C - Mix well so that there are no clumps of powder left.
D - drop about 50 ish boolits in another container and tumble continuously so that the boolits do not start to stick together.
E - Lay out you boolits on a 1/4" screen and continue to shake to eliminate sticking and hold over a fan to expedite drying.
F - Place screen / tray into oven at 400 for 15 minutes.
G - After heating. Pull them out and separate them from the screen and cool again over fan.
H - repeat steps D through G until you get the desired thickness.

I am trying an alternate method for better / more smooth results. It will likely require a decent set up and some money to be able to do this method for production. I will test the rounds this weekend in my Glock 19 and give a report.

I have sized these before coating and again after coating. This worked well.
I have also sized them only after coating and the coating does not come off.

Here are my boolits with the alternate method. The alternate method is a one coat one bake set up. Saves a lot of time!

http://imageshack.us/a/img835/4895/p6070442.jpg
4 Parts acetone / 1 Part powder coat
Very thin.
Result - Did not size well enough for my liking. Scrapped!

http://imageshack.us/a/img856/9392/p6070443.jpg
3 Parts acetone / 1 Part powder coat
Very thick, even and great color
Result - Sized great and loaded for shooting!

Smash test is as seen in the photos.

wrinkles
06-07-2013, 03:30 PM
Those last blue ones look nice. How many coats?

TES
06-07-2013, 04:34 PM
one coat and one bake

prickett
06-07-2013, 07:07 PM
TES, is that really HF powder? I only see black, white, red, and yellow colors on their site.

bangerjim
06-07-2013, 09:15 PM
PLEASE......describe your "alternate" method. it looks great and sounds MUCH faster than multi-coat process used up till now.

You mentioned cost. Remember "this hobby of ours that will save us hundreds of dollars...is costing thousands!"

How true...............:violin:

bangerjim

bangerjim
06-07-2013, 09:21 PM
Forgot to ask..........does your powder actually DISSOLVE in the acetone or is it mere SUSPENDED for a time? I have had only suspension with HF powders. My finishes are lumpy due to the non-dissolubility of the HF stuff. As I mentioned in the other thread, I have used every solvent known to man and they all DO NOT dissolve the darned HF stuff.

Could you post some pix showing the start and finish of the coating process...showing the container with the slugs in it?

What brand is the blue?

bangerjim

TES
06-07-2013, 09:50 PM
HF is coming. If I achieve the same result then I will still call it the HFPC / piglet method if not I will let all know the source of this powder. You really do have to shake this like a can of spray paint to get it to dissolve well......

I mean like 30 seconds with 2 45's in the bottom. Some times I think I'm about to break the glass. Other wise it is just a clump of **** stuck to the boolits. Shake it like a Polaroid picture. When done it does dissolve.

On a side note I did let a solution sit over night and it did get very powdery. Meaning the powder got swollen with the acetone. It still coated ok but for production purposes it would not pass.

TES
06-07-2013, 10:14 PM
Even with the "costs" I'm at least thinking about now...it is still cheaper than Hitech and electroplating. If I get a production set up going I will unfortunately not be posting "how I do it". I will how ever post how I solved the problem and let you decide if you want to experiment with it and come up with contrivances and pay the additional costs. Great boolits are not easy to make. I wasted 4 times the color that I did in the tumble and shake method vs this super slick method. RIGHT NOW cost are equal to HiTech method but....so far with better results. I will see if the arid climate here makes the coating brittle like it does the green stuff. I will also be doing abrasion testing to see if this coating sands the barrel. I will not be accountable for anyone losing a barrel due to an abrasive product! So I will do testing and verify results before I say "yes...do it this way".

Also...l do not want to say that this is better than any other method until I have proof. Right now I have not fired a single shot of HFPC and HiTechs could still out perform this. I have shot Hitech's and it does leave a clean barrel...period! I have no complaints other than the cost and time to table as a manufacturer.

Remember that pretty is not always a good thing....remember the song "never make a pretty woman your wife"

More tests to come I will be posting ASAP..

prickett
06-07-2013, 10:58 PM
Forgot to ask..........does your powder actually DISSOLVE in the acetone or is it mere SUSPENDED for a time? I have had only suspension with HF powders. My finishes are lumpy due to the non-dissolubility of the HF stuff. As I mentioned in the other thread, I have used every solvent known to man and they all DO NOT dissolve the darned HF stuff.
bangerjim

I've used HF paint and it must dissolve. Otherwise, it wouldn't be sticky when dumped on the wire rack.

bangerjim
06-08-2013, 12:37 AM
I've used HF paint and it must dissolve. Otherwise, it wouldn't be sticky when dumped on the wire rack.


It is sticky but so is solvent-based contact cement when you try to clean the brush with lacquer thinner! the cement takes a very special solvent. Otherwise it is a gooey mess that will not work.

The stuff I end up with sticks to the sides of the tupper ware container but is kind of stringy. Just like on the lead itself.

Tes - - - - I will try the "shimmy-shimmy-coco-bop" mentioned above and see if it dissolves further!

Thanks.

bangerjim

Ausglock
06-08-2013, 02:53 AM
I have compared this method of coating against the Hi Tech coating & Copper Plated.

My test results are nowhere near finished but in this lovely dry climate the Hi Tech dries up and flakes off when tested with a hammer. To be fair these bullets have been in my possession for exactly 2 months.
.

G'day, If the HI-TEK coating is flaking off, the first coat was not cured correctly.
I'm posting photos of smashed HI_TEK coated bullets on the other thread.

Australia is one of the most arid countries on the planet, and we have no problems with HI-TEK coated pills being stored for years and still firing perfectly.

The cost of the HI-TEK coating in the US is not controlled by HI-TEK. It is controlled by the re-seller. If the re-seller is swamped with people wanting the coating, then he can charge whatever he thinks is market value.
The classic supply and demand.

The PC/ Piglet looks the goods, but the proof is in the firing.

There are tens of thousands of coated bullets fired in Australia every weekend by sport shooters. IPSC shooters with compensated open guns running Major power factor and driving these bullets at over 1500FPS out of the 4 and 5 port guns. even the ports and popple holes in the barrel do not removed the HI-TEK coating. My 38 Super racegun can be fired as fast as I can pull the trigger mag after mag and there is no leading in the ports of the compensator.
A top product, loved by shooters all over Australia.
The Topscore projectiles commercially coated with HI-TEK coating have been fired by Australian Police in full auto MP5, MP40, 9mm AR-15 and the coating has stood up to this with no issues what so ever.

TES
06-08-2013, 11:14 AM
Im not going to turn this into a Hitech thread. Sorry keep this about HFPC Method.

popper
06-08-2013, 01:47 PM
PLEASE KEEP THIS ABOUT THE PIGLET METHOD Agree 100%. Methods, results.

bmiller
06-08-2013, 02:02 PM
I tried the piglet method twice for grins. I am getting good results except for my screens are leaving bumps and divots on the coating. Mixing a 3 acetone to 1 powder ratio. I don't take time to stand them up. What am I doing wrong ?

xacex
06-08-2013, 04:19 PM
Yup, I got some little spots on my boolits too with this method. Coated some lee 311-230's for the blackout. I used the flat black. Interesting enough the coating is gloss when you put it on this way, and goes flat after cooking. I did some with the standard PC method to compare. Seems to be less waste, but the finish is a little rough. I had to handle the boolits more with this method as well. If I were to get one coat boolits that look nice and shoot well I would stick with it.

TES
06-08-2013, 05:38 PM
In order to keep the screen marks off you have to keep shaking them while on the screen. I hold mine over a fan to speed up the pre oven cure. However this method still produces a speckled rough finish. With this method the HiTech coating is smoother but the HFPC shoots just as well and was easy to clean with only a couple of passes of a cleaner and swatch. I shot these today and they did very well at 900 - 1000 fps. (nice light plinking load)

The alternate method with the smooth coat shot well too and was very easy to clean.

Great day at the range!

http://imageshack.us/a/img4/5962/p6080442.jpg
Soft lead 8 BHN - backs look great!

http://imageshack.us/a/img707/9295/p6080444.jpg
Same from the front - nice expansion (shot into a homer bucket stuffed with dry phone books)

I cant wait for the HF to get here and see if it does equally as well.

prickett
06-08-2013, 06:15 PM
It is sticky but so is solvent-based contact cement when you try to clean the brush with lacquer thinner! the cement takes a very special solvent. Otherwise it is a gooey mess that will not work.

The stuff I end up with sticks to the sides of the tupper ware container but is kind of stringy. Just like on the lead itself.

Tes - - - - I will try the "shimmy-shimmy-coco-bop" mentioned above and see if it dissolves further!

Thanks.

bangerjim

Just saw this in another thread: "I used HF PC too in acetone. The pigment didn't go into solution, but he polymer did"

TES
06-09-2013, 01:42 PM
Anyone know of a method for testing abrasion? Kinda coming up short here.

bmiller
06-09-2013, 01:51 PM
This has been my best results with the piglet method so far. Better, but not good enough.

xacex
06-09-2013, 02:04 PM
I hope you intend to shoot those without a gas check. That's thick! The 311-230's I did were not to far off of those. My coating was just a little thinner. This would be viable for subsonic work if I could get like 4 MOA at 50 yards. Right now I can get 2 MOA at 50 with 45/45/10. An inch at 50 is good, but I do get some leading occasionally for some reason with the tumble lube.

bmiller
06-09-2013, 02:25 PM
Just experimenting, might shoot them or remelt

TES
06-09-2013, 02:44 PM
Try making the mix a little bit thinner. Maybe 3.5 to 1.

popper
06-09-2013, 03:16 PM
I think Gear made 1, motor driven arm inside a drum, revolution counter. Measured before & after. Probably could do the same thing but just observe the worn out size. Basically rub the test item against a steel surface at constant force and measure wear, standard SAE test method for liquid lubes.

TES
06-09-2013, 06:46 PM
Well...I put one pill in a drill and let it spin on a piece of metal until the drill ran out of juice and nada on the metal. Coating was still in place.

Skip62
06-10-2013, 09:59 PM
one coat and one bake

WHAT!?!?!?!?!?!? 1 coat, 1 bake. You gotta spill the beans, they look great. Are they coated on the base too?

Skip62
06-10-2013, 10:07 PM
Im not going to turn this into a Hitech thread. Sorry keep this about HFPC Method.

OH Thank you, tired of the HI-TEK commercials

Skip62
06-10-2013, 10:14 PM
http://imageshack.us/a/img4/5962/p6080442.jpg
Soft lead 8 BHN - backs look great!


8 BHN, that's awesome! ! !

TES
06-10-2013, 10:19 PM
WHAT!?!?!?!?!?!? 1 coat, 1 bake. You gotta spill the beans, they look great. Are they coated on the base too?

Skip as much as I would like to I don't know if there is a benefit to this method. They look cool but...do they work? I want to know if there is an abrasion factor to these boolits....that I do not know. Until then this is putting nail polish on a pigs hoof. Yes they coat on the base too. Hence the picture of the back of the boolit that you re-posted.

prickett
06-10-2013, 11:12 PM
They look cool but...do they work? I want to know if there is an abrasion factor to these boolits....that I do not know. Until then this is putting nail polish on a pigs hoof. Yes they coat on the base too. Hence the picture of the back of the boolit that you re-posted.

I'm confused. Aren't you talking about the 8 BHN bullets shown in your picture? If so, why don't you know they work? If they didn't lead the barrel, and shot accurately, I'd declare that indeed they DO work. With regards to abrasion, I think the test is that the bullet doesn't shed its "jacket" in the barrel or during insertion into the case. Other than that, I wouldn't care.

I cast about 150 8 BHN bullets tonight that I'll be coating with HF paint tomorrow and shooting this weekend. I'm keeping my fingers crossed. This would be the holy grail of lube!

Ausglock
06-10-2013, 11:33 PM
OH Thank you, tired of the HI-TEK commercials

What commercials? The stuff works!

Skip62
06-11-2013, 03:17 AM
Skip as much as I would like to I don't know if there is a benefit to this method. They look cool but...do they work? I want to know if there is an abrasion factor to these boolits....that I do not know. Until then this is putting nail polish on a pigs hoof. Yes they coat on the base too. Hence the picture of the back of the boolit that you re-posted.

My bad, I hadn't read all the posts when I asked, I get that's it's a different product. Thanks

TES
06-11-2013, 10:16 AM
What commercials? The stuff works!

That's funny right there!

http://imageshack.us/a/img90/3220/p6110442l.jpg

Here is a 3 coat and bake next to a single coat and bake.

The picture does not do it justice. The lube groove is completely smooth. It's like glass.

TES
06-11-2013, 11:13 AM
OK.. 3 coat and 3 bake is too thick. When I smashed the boolit it flaked off. I guess you have to keep this thin for it to work.

Skip62
06-11-2013, 12:10 PM
OK.. 3 coat and 3 bake is too thick. When I smashed the boolit it flaked off. I guess you have to keep this thin for it to work.

Your still talking about the alternative coating, right?

Sent from my MB886 using Tapatalk 2

TES
06-11-2013, 12:13 PM
yup alternate method.

Skip62
06-11-2013, 12:52 PM
yup alternate method.

Thanks, my simple mind sometimes gets confused

Sent from my MB886 using Tapatalk 2

wrinkles
06-11-2013, 01:07 PM
At Glock.

Yea but if you notice the thread isn't asking about HT. The tread is about powder coat using the piglet method so why come to a thread labeled as such and start posting about HT?

xyankeeworkshop
06-11-2013, 03:06 PM
Just spitballing fere:

Rather than dumping the Piglet Boolits onto a flat piece of hardware cloth, would dumping them into a rotating mesh basket and letting them dry between coats while tumbling keep them smoother? I'm picturing grabbing an old steel mesh wastebasket, drilling out the bottom, and mounting it horizontally on a low-speed motor - basically a rock tumbler type setup.

Skip62
06-11-2013, 03:29 PM
Just spitballing fere:

Rather than dumping the Piglet Boolits onto a flat piece of hardware cloth, would dumping them into a rotating mesh basket and letting them dry between coats while tumbling keep them smoother? I'm picturing grabbing an old steel mesh wastebasket, drilling out the bottom, and mounting it horizontally on a low-speed motor - basically a rock tumbler type setup.

I've wondered the same thing. From what I've seen though, the more I tumble as they dry the rougher they get cuz the choosing is stocking to itself and pulling itself off. So I'm just not sure. I put a second coat on real wet yesterday and didn't shake it much and while it was still wet poured it onto the mesh, more than half came looking pretty smooth, but the others had runs. I'm at a loss without several thin coats. The mesh I'm using isn't ideal, and I'm sure it's contributing to the roughness. I tried to coat it, but it's not taking it to well....:)

Sent from my MB886 using Tapatalk 2

namor_svk
06-11-2013, 03:44 PM
Today I used Piglet method with DuPond Alesta HR( High Heat Coating) silicon-polymer powder. It dissolve better in acetone then epoxy powders. I used 2 coats and 2 bakes. They are ready to reload.
73250
Will try them next weekend. We will see whats happen with this type of powder coat. Sizing was pretty easy from .359 to .356 for my CZ 85 in 9 luger.

bmiller
06-11-2013, 03:50 PM
3 to 1 ratio? They look good!

namor_svk
06-11-2013, 03:58 PM
yes. It seems 2 coats are enough . It is matt black color.

popper
06-11-2013, 04:55 PM
OK, now I'm curious. Anybody try dipping & drip dry? Or E-S dipping? With the Alestra mix the drying appears to be the big problem in rough coating, tumbling doesn't give a smooth coat, 2 or 3 required.

TES
06-11-2013, 06:04 PM
Yea I think somebody in another thread tried dipping and it did not work.

Skip62
06-11-2013, 09:29 PM
Ok, so my buddy comes over, uses my powder and racks and oven and buckets...yada...yada...and this was his result.

after 1 coat
73280


after 2 coats
73281

man they look good. I think that fact that they are only 105 grains helps, but still. Time to :Fire: him

Edubya
06-12-2013, 05:19 AM
Looks like the multiplied!

EW

Skip62
06-12-2013, 06:16 AM
Looks like the multiplied!

EW

LOL, he was already taking them off the mesh when I stopped him for a picture.

Sent from my MB886 using Tapatalk 2

olaf455
06-12-2013, 06:43 PM
Has anyone tried this method with rifle at full jacketed velocities and no gas check?

TES
06-12-2013, 06:43 PM
Ok I am getting better with the three coat method but they are still splotchy. The alternate method even with one bake and coat just seems to take too long to get the same amount done as the tumble method.

The alternate method gives great results but will take the hobby caster a lot of time or expense in set up to get rapid results. So I think I am coming to the conclusion that the Hi Tech is....well.....better than PC as far as cosmetics are concerned when the tumble method is used. In order to get the smooth even color in my method; it would take Pumps, conveyors and a decent pizza oven with pass through..(like a quiznos oven). Just not seeing the benefit other than Color choices. Cost is really cheap compared to any other readily available method that is out there.

Sorry guys just not seeing the real plus from a production stand point. Even if you only do a few 1000 at a time.

bmiller
06-12-2013, 07:01 PM
Oh no, another Hi-tek commercial! I am getting results with the hi-tek system that I can't replicate with powder coat. Not saying it can't be done, I have not figured it out yet.

TES
06-12-2013, 07:21 PM
Oh no, another Hi-tek commercial! I am getting results with the hi-tek system that I can't replicate with powder coat. Not saying it can't be done, I have not figured it out yet.

The reason I started this thread. I too have not figured it out.

The key to this is...

A - application (plus) - solved (all methods)
B - Heat makes it viscous again (problem) - Unsolved (tumble) - Solved (alternate)
C - Until cool it stays sticky (problem) - Unsolved (tumble) - Solved (alternate)
D - Flaky when cured (problem) - Unsolved - (either method including Hi tek)
E - Coating comes off after being loaded into case and pulled (problem) - Unsolved -(either method including Hi tek)
F - Coating works to eliminate fouling (solution) - Solved - (all coatings)

See this is not an easy thing to conclude. I think we need to come up with a standards for testing to see if they all match up or if there is a clear victor.

gunoil
06-12-2013, 07:31 PM
TES, do some hi-tek and give us a report or you did already? I cant read all this stuff. I sized and loaded some hi-tek with no problems.

TES
06-12-2013, 07:35 PM
Pull them after loading. Mine started to flake at the case mouth. No I did not over crimp. Just enough to get it to Lyman spec. (Lyman Manual)

bmiller
06-12-2013, 08:29 PM
TES, I was having problems with shaving the coating when loading. I solved it by screwing the stem on my seating die the whole way in and setting bullet depth with the die body. Crimp with a final size die.

gunoil
06-12-2013, 09:04 PM
yea, bmiller, i do all my stuff that way now for bout 90 days. Match shooter friend said, lighter crimp, I have dillon final pistol dies and they make it nice and round at top. Its a different crimp than FCD and with micrometer.

I also do not have bell expander dies, i have step dies, RCBS, & like mrbulletfeeder.net, and others i just turn down on laithe. This way the bullet has a true seat.

http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k511/putt2012/1DBC1BE7-3544-43F8-8614-CD8CAFB909EF-1426-000007B3AB952119_zps2b77b893.jpg

bmiller
06-12-2013, 09:24 PM
Do you run that setup on a Dillon ?

Skip62
06-12-2013, 09:36 PM
Ok I am getting better with the three coat method but they are still splotchy. The alternate method even with one bake and coat just seems to take too long to get the same amount done as the tumble method.

Just how splotchy are they? My PC isn't smooth, but it's just a little texture. The gloss look of the HI-TEK bullets(which I have sitting on my bench) aren't evenly coated and they were done by Bayou Bullets. My Klass Kote bullets are more even than the Bayou's. Problem is, I don't think that matters other than esthetics. I haven't shot them at over 15 yards yet, but I can't see a difference at that distance.

prickett
06-12-2013, 11:31 PM
Hey Skip62, how about providing the results of your Klass Kote in this thread: http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?199696-Does-anyone-know-what-this-guy-uses-to-coat-and-color/page3 (that way we can keep HI-TEK, Piglet Coat, and Klass Kote in separate threads). I'm very interested in that coating method too.

TES
06-13-2013, 03:28 PM
Somebody call the doctor....I'm seeing spots.

http://imageshack.us/a/img811/7104/p6130442.jpg

HFPC with flecks. Seems to coat well. Color is hit or miss but they are coated completely with polymer.

Far less smell with HFPC when baking than the fancy stuff I was using.

Alternate method used here.

These are my LSU boolits!

bmiller
06-13-2013, 03:35 PM
Tes, can you throw us a hint on the alternate method?

DeanWinchester
06-13-2013, 03:52 PM
THose look like some kind of easter candy!!!!

Skip62
06-13-2013, 04:10 PM
Hey Skip62, how about providing the results of your Klass Kote in this thread: http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?199696-Does-anyone-know-what-this-guy-uses-to-coat-and-color/page3 (that way we can keep HI-TEK, Piglet Coat, and Klass Kote in separate threads). I'm very interested in that coating method too.

I already had, top of page 2. Be aware I was not advocating it. It's just too fussy. You have to adjust the amount of reducer with the slightest change in temp or humidity. They "look" really good when done, but leave streaks in the barrel. Not lead, paint, and it cleans out with a quick swipe of a nylon brush, but still.

TES
06-13-2013, 04:58 PM
Time bomb Jaw breakers...lol..that's it

prickett
06-13-2013, 07:38 PM
Color is hit or miss but they are coated completely with polymer.

Far less smell with HFPC when baking than the fancy stuff I was using.

Alternate method used here.

TES,
I take it the paint still isn't really HF even though you say its HFPC. HF colors are only black, white, red, and yellow. Where did you get that paint?

What are the specks? Is that lead showing thru?

You say "color is hit or miss but they are coated completely with polymer". Tell me if my understanding is correct: the acetone dissolves the polymer, but not the pigment. That is why Piglet says to use thin coats? Even without the pigment coloring the bullet, there IS polymer covering it?

prickett
06-13-2013, 07:44 PM
Anyone try using this for Piglet Coating: Liquid 2 Powder - This product offers ultimate versatility for powder coating as the powder solution can be sprayed on with an airbrush, HVLP gun, or brushed on like a normal liquid paint and then cured like a traditional powder coat leaving a very durable and smooth finish behind.

http://www.powderbuythepound.com/LIQUID_2_POWDER_-1_PINT/

Sounds very much like the Piglet method. Just wondering if it'd offer any advantages.

Skip62
06-13-2013, 08:20 PM
Prickett, I keep thinking about it. Someone on one of the other threads said it won't, he'd used it for something else. Doesn't mean it won't, just that's what he said. It would definitely change the pricing model of the Piglet coat though.

olaf455
06-13-2013, 08:35 PM
Anyone try using this for Piglet Coating: Liquid 2 Powder - This product offers ultimate versatility for powder coating as the powder solution can be sprayed on with an airbrush, HVLP gun, or brushed on like a normal liquid paint and then cured like a traditional powder coat leaving a very durable and smooth finish behind.

http://www.powderbuythepound.com/LIQUID_2_POWDER_-1_PINT/

Sounds very much like the Piglet method. Just wondering if it'd offer any advantages.

I have, but I couldn't make it work. When it dries, the boolits cannot be handled without knocking the powder off.
My observation of the liquid 2 powder is this: it appears to be water with some additive like soap that reduces the waters surface tension...

TES
06-13-2013, 08:52 PM
Yes the yellow speckle is HFPC just with crud in the jar from the blue boolits I made. It all came out together and you get speckled boolits. Mistake and laziness not intended coating method. Yes Lead shows through the coating because the color powder is merely suspended and not dissolved like with the better powder coat I bought (blue). Thin coats are what I did and its not as good as the better PC for the alternate method I use. Still coated well just cosmetically blemished. Trying some more methods tomorrow and will post results.

prickett
06-13-2013, 09:41 PM
I have, but I couldn't make it work. When it dries, the boolits cannot be handled without knocking the powder off.
My observation of the liquid 2 powder is this: it appears to be water with some additive like soap that reduces the waters surface tension...

I saw your (?) earlier post about it not working, but wondered how it was applied and what the downside was. Sounds like - unlike Piglet Coat - it doesn't dissolve the paint, but rather just acts as a carrier? If that is the case, why not just wet the bullet and sprinkle on the powder. Seems like that would do the same thing

Frankv
06-14-2013, 06:24 AM
OK, now I'm curious. Anybody try dipping & drip dry? Or E-S dipping? With the Alestra mix the drying appears to be the big problem in rough coating, tumbling doesn't give a smooth coat, 2 or 3 required.

I tried dipping, different mixes, didn't work.

Frankv
06-14-2013, 06:30 AM
OK, now I'm curious. Anybody try dipping & drip dry? Or E-S dipping? With the Alestra mix the drying appears to be the big problem in rough coating, tumbling doesn't give a smooth coat, 2 or 3 required.

I tried dipping, different mixes, didn't work.

popper
06-14-2013, 12:42 PM
Franky I can see why the HF powder wouldn't work for dipping, maybe the powder TES is using mixes better? Thinking the old auto body dip paint process which worked well for enamel paint.

olaf455
06-14-2013, 01:02 PM
I saw your (?) earlier post about it not working, but wondered how it was applied and what the downside was. Sounds like - unlike Piglet Coat - it doesn't dissolve the paint, but rather just acts as a carrier? If that is the case, why not just wet the bullet and sprinkle on the powder. Seems like that would do the same thing

I tried a number of different methods. I used an airbrush to spray it on, attempted tumbling them, dipping them one at a time......
The closest I got to success was spraying on with an airbrush, but I had to stand each one of them up on an aluminum foil covered baking tray first. Airbrushing however did not produce and even coat all the way around the bullet which is why I tried tumbling.
Liquid 2 powder has been shelved permanently I do not believe it will work.
In its intended application I believe it would work quite well, as a way to apply something fancy to a powder coating project.

TES
06-14-2013, 04:32 PM
OK..HFPC does give a complete polymer coat but color consistency is less than satisfactory for production purposes. If you are going to use a PC then spend an extra 2 bucks per pound and get a better PC.

Skip62
06-14-2013, 04:36 PM
OK..HFPC does give a complete polymer coat but color consistency is less than satisfactory for production purposes. If you are going to use a PC then spend an extra 2 bucks per pound and get a better PC.

Beyond color consistency, do the better powders lay flatter?

HDS
06-14-2013, 04:46 PM
At Glock.

Yea but if you notice the thread isn't asking about HT. The tread is about powder coat using the piglet method so why come to a thread labeled as such and start posting about HT?

Probably because the thread starter decided to bring it up in his first post. He can't really expect to bring up the Hitek product in a way that says its worse than method X, then say nobody may talk about it afterwards. I dunno about you but that sounds like something out of kindergarten to me. Don't want to talk about Hitek in a thread you make? Lead by example instead of: do as I say, not as I do.

TES
06-14-2013, 04:48 PM
Um little bit. depends on the method. In my opinion its worth the money for a more professional result with the method I'm using. Tumbled there is probably little to no difference. But with better powders you have more color options. I will find out which powder I got from the PC company here that I bought the powder from.

TES
06-14-2013, 04:53 PM
I posted about the hitek method to let people know that I have the finished product in hand made by a commercial caster and have tested it to some degree. Its a good product. This is about experimenting with PC piglet method. I just wanted to eliminate hitek postings so that we dont get alot of random posts about 4 or 5 different methods.

Ausglock
06-15-2013, 02:48 AM
TES.
No worries, Mate
I'm cool with that.
HDS, Thanks.
But...If you are going to run down the HI-TEK in this thread, Well....Expect a post or two from me :)

I hope the PC works for those that are trying it, and good luck with your trials.
I am enjoying the coating I'm using, I hope you enjoy yours.

all the best.
Regards, Trevor
OZ

bmiller
06-15-2013, 07:22 AM
Well put Ausglock!

TES
06-15-2013, 10:31 AM
TES.
No worries, Mate
I'm cool with that.
HDS, Thanks.
But...If you are going to run down the HI-TEK in this thread, Well....Expect a post or two from me :)

I hope the PC works for those that are trying it, and good luck with your trials.
I am enjoying the coating I'm using, I hope you enjoy yours.

all the best.
Regards, Trevor
OZ

I get that. But let me be clear. I have had only good experiences with the Hi Tek coating so NOTHING bad has been said by me about his coating. Just my observations and experiments with PC. I would purchase his coating with out hesitation I just wish there was more in the color department available to us. IE if we could add pigment to do color changes on the fly. I asked if that was available and kinda got the cold shoulder. I think he felt like I was prying for his secrets and that was not my intentions. This has a huge potential market share here and lets face it folks want color options. It would be nice if there was a way to have them. This reason is really the only one that has me experimenting with PC. If I could get even a response from the guy regarding this it would be great.

popper
06-15-2013, 10:59 AM
Ausglock - if you want a hi-tek thread, start one. Out of courtesy, please leave those investigating other stuff alone. Mods?

prickett
06-15-2013, 06:27 PM
Epic FAIL using HFPC + soft lead.

After 10 rounds I had extensive leading, awful accuracy, and 2 rounds actually key holed the target at 15 feet in my 9mm. I guess this isn't the holy grail.

The shame of it is that this, my second attempt at coating, I had very good results aesthetically (using actual HF paint).

Skip62
06-15-2013, 06:28 PM
Bummer, how soft?

prickett
06-15-2013, 08:50 PM
Pure lead.

Skip62
06-15-2013, 10:25 PM
oh well, we can't have everything

gunoil
06-15-2013, 11:11 PM
No bmiller, I have Lee equipment.

docmagnum357
06-15-2013, 11:23 PM
I have been using a cement mixer, 3 parts acetone : one part Harbor Freight Black powder paint. I use a 12 gauge hull for a measuring devise. I put 300 45 acp bullets in a Rectangular cat litter bucket that I bolted on the mixer instead of the drum.I put 2 shotgun hulls full of MIXED acetone/ powder in the bucket and turned it on. I walked away until the bullets were basically dry: no liquid left in the bucket. This method applies very evenly. The acetone flashes away fairly quickly because it is covering the surface of so many bullets. The mix gets thicker and thicker in consistency as time goes by, but the volume is getting is getting smaller all the time, and it pretty much all winds up on the bullets. BAke as usual. Size .452.I will be loading some tomorrow and will report, but I am certain one coat will work with this method. I will be catching some bullets to see what the results are there, too.

popper
06-16-2013, 02:02 PM
Complete coverage of the CBs?

prickett
06-16-2013, 02:07 PM
Complete coverage of the CBs?

Not sure who your question is addressed to. If me, then yes. Full coverage.

Skip62
06-16-2013, 03:22 PM
I have been using a cement mixer, 3 parts acetone : one part Harbor Freight Black powder paint. I use a 12 gauge hull for a measuring devise. I put 300 45 acp bullets in a Rectangular cat litter bucket that I bolted on the mixer instead of the drum.I put 2 shotgun hulls full of MIXED acetone/ powder in the bucket and turned it on. I walked away until the bullets were basically dry: no liquid left in the bucket. This method applies very evenly. The acetone flashes away fairly quickly because it is covering the surface of so many bullets. The mix gets thicker and thicker in consistency as time goes by, but the volume is getting is getting smaller all the time, and it pretty much all winds up on the bullets. BAke as usual. Size .452.I will be loading some tomorrow and will report, but I am certain one coat will work with this method. I will be catching some bullets to see what the results are there, too.

Thank you for the report. I was sure a cement mixer would do a better a job, but just wasn't going to plop down the cash. I might have to make one. Can you post a picture of how you mounted the kitter litter box?

TES
06-16-2013, 10:03 PM
I have been using a cement mixer, 3 parts acetone : one part Harbor Freight Black powder paint. I use a 12 gauge hull for a measuring devise. I put 300 45 acp bullets in a Rectangular cat litter bucket that I bolted on the mixer instead of the drum.I put 2 shotgun hulls full of MIXED acetone/ powder in the bucket and turned it on. I walked away until the bullets were basically dry: no liquid left in the bucket. This method applies very evenly. The acetone flashes away fairly quickly because it is covering the surface of so many bullets. The mix gets thicker and thicker in consistency as time goes by, but the volume is getting is getting smaller all the time, and it pretty much all winds up on the bullets. BAke as usual. Size .452.I will be loading some tomorrow and will report, but I am certain one coat will work with this method. I will be catching some bullets to see what the results are there, too.


Don't shoot those or you will be doing a lot of cleaning.

My range findings with HF black are well...I'm not too happy!

Yellow ok and will pass for hobbyist.

High end PC is the best and only a couple a bucks more per pound.

I am going to be giving the big reveal on the alternate method I have used. I wont be using it for production. I will most likely be using Hi tek.

Not a commercial..just my findings. Don't hate me please!

TES

bmiller
06-16-2013, 10:05 PM
Tes, waiting patiently!

Skip62
06-16-2013, 10:06 PM
Not a commercial..just my findings. Don't hate me please!

TES

Your dead to me! ! ! jk

I'm not having any problem with the black. What issue did you have?

TES
06-16-2013, 10:06 PM
Pure lead.


Up it to 12 - 20 bhn no more leading.

docmagnum357
06-16-2013, 10:17 PM
The mixer drum has a three arms coming from a central hub. All I did was take the drum off and drill some holes that work with the rectangular bucket. I am not really good with the cell phone camera thing, but I will try to post a picture of the whole rig.

I haven't shot any yet, and I get mixed reports about how they work with Black ( or any ) Harbor Freight Powder paint. I will just have to try it and see.

I will be doing two coats, and maybe three. One coat does not really look very good.

TES
06-16-2013, 10:17 PM
Your dead to me! ! ! jk

I'm not having any problem with the black. What issue did you have?

Huge globs of black.

I shot 15 of each of these.

Traditional method ( piglet)

4:1 alternate

3:1 Alternate

(forgot)

4:1 alternate 50:50 High end and HF black (semi gloss)

3:1 alternate 50:50 High end and HF black (high gloss)

When sized the black went glossy under friction. Matt on top. Barrel was just gunked up period. It was worse than cleaning moly out of my barrel.

All other colors shot and cleaned well. 3 passes with same method and clean barrel. High end PC looked the best for product purposes meaning cosmetically they were the best and color options where the best.

Gonna actually do my own coating with some HT so that I can eliminate any speculation.

Was looking for the holy grail here but don't think this is it.

Oh and accuracy was pretty darn good for all coatings. I'm not a master shooter but 30 yards and 6" groups standing.

docmagnum357
06-16-2013, 10:30 PM
Huge globs of color were why I went to the mixer. Much, much more even when the stuff is allowed to spin and tumble in rectangular "drum". We'll see if the black is a problem in my barrel. I also have yellow and it looked like a bag of heck when I tried to do it by hand, too. I am going to try it next.

prickett
06-16-2013, 10:38 PM
Up it to 12 - 20 bhn no more leading.

Yeah, I was very successful doing WW with HF black paint. I was hoping I could use soft lead too. That way we wouldn't be at the mercy of finding WW (which are getting harder and harder to find). If straight lead worked, that'd mean we could use ANY alloy.

Oh well, I'm still a fan of HFPC. Just need to use hard enough alloy. I haven't heard whether any of the other methods work with soft lead or not (e.g. HI-TEK, sprayed PC, or Klass Kote).

popper
06-16-2013, 11:06 PM
I'm using 1-2% Sb only in 40@5 gr 231.

TES
06-16-2013, 11:30 PM
Oh and I'm not going to be purchasing any reloads from the local reload man....got a 3221 (double charge)FPS on a round today (plated).. that got my attention!

Skip62
06-17-2013, 09:06 AM
The mixer drum has a three arms coming from a central hub. All I did was take the drum off and drill some holes that work with the rectangular bucket. I am not really good with the cell phone camera thing, but I will try to post a picture of the whole rig.

I haven't shot any yet, and I get mixed reports about how they work with Black ( or any ) Harbor Freight Powder paint. I will just have to try it and see.

I will be doing two coats, and maybe three. One coat does not really look very good.

ok, I get the idea, no need for pictures. Thank you.

Skip62
06-17-2013, 09:17 AM
Huge globs of black.

When sized the black went glossy under friction. Matt on top. Barrel was just gunked up period. It was worse than cleaning moly out of my barrel.



Hmm, I've had NO issues like that. I shot over 400 rounds this weekend and the barrel has a couple of slight streaks in the barrel that I'm sure will come out with just a dry patch, like it has in the past. I only use 2 to 1, but I really don't think that could be the difference. Interesting. I'm going to switch to better PC anyway, but never the less, interesting.

bstone5
06-18-2013, 12:11 AM
I was talking to Powder Buy The Pound today with regard to ordering some powder coat for a non bullet application.

I have tried the Piglet method but the powder does not completely go into solution. The pigment seems to not completely dissolve.

The coating was not very flat and had rough surfaces.

The fellow i was talking with indicated after the power and acetone are mixed and given a few hours to dissolve I might have better results if I were to filter the solution to remove the large particles that do not dissolve.

It was indicate that there might be large particles that could be filtered out by a coffee filter inside a paint filter.

i wanted to pass this along, I was talking with the vendor this morning.

Removing the large particles may result in a smoother flatter coating.

Just A Thought.

abqcaster
06-18-2013, 11:23 AM
I don't think the pigment is soluble. It's why it's opaque and not transparent. Filtering out larger chunky particles though is a welcome improvement. I was disappointed at first when I saw that the paint wasn't dissolving but then I realized it was the pigment. After a few swirls of the boolits int the suspension, saw that they were indeed becoming evenly coated and was rather pleased with my first try.

eveready
06-21-2013, 02:29 PM
I found that adding the powder coat to the acetone slowly while stirring that the PC would dissolve and not leave any lumps.

Skip62
06-21-2013, 03:07 PM
Easiest way to mix is to spend $15 on Rockler paint mixer. It will completely mix HF-PC in very quickly.

http://www.rockler.com/m/product.cfm?page=31675

Sent from my MB886 using Tapatalk 2

bstone5
06-22-2013, 11:15 PM
I mixed 1 part powder coat to 3 parts acetone, let the mixture set one week to allow the powder coat to dissolve in the acetone.
Three coats were applied to the bullets, the cooking time had to be extended 5 minutes for the coating to pass the acetone wipe test.
The bullets were sized with a Lee push through sizing die with the powder coat holding up very well.
The surface was a little rough but the areas on the bullet that contacted the sizing die was smoothed out to be very flat and even.
The final third coat was cooked for 30 minutes to make sure the coating was fully cured.
The finished coating passed the acetone wipe test and the smash test.

This coating should work but the surface is still slightly rough.

Skip62
06-23-2013, 09:14 PM
Ok, so I put a bunch of bullets, with the rough texture, into a jar with small steel balls, and started tumbling them. At the half hour mark they didn't look much better. Ran them another 40 minutes, cuz I forgot about them, and they smoothed out pretty good, but it was a little to long and the coating started to come off on some edges. I think with just the right amount of time, and media this could work. Next time I'm going to try just in the tumbler with walnut and see what happens. I've gotten used to the rough texture, and kinda like it, but I'm still positive it can be more aesthetically pleasing. Oh yeah, it's HF flat black.

74419

bstone5
06-23-2013, 11:54 PM
74426

Rylos
06-24-2013, 12:31 PM
I have a couple of concerns about this method. First is the health issue! Using something that is intended for something else without testing sounds like a major health risk. Second is this method does not leave a product that is very appealing to the eye and only a few people seem to be able to replicate piglets results.

prickett
06-24-2013, 10:30 PM
Good looking boolits Skip!

I just completed my third generation of Piglet coating and I'm pleased with the results (no clumping, but a slight rough texture). To mix my powder/acetone I use a former jelly jar with lid. Insert ingredients, twist on the lid, and swirl vigorously. I don't think I'm using the 3 to 1 ratio most are using. Mine is probably more like 4 to 1.

HI-TEK
06-25-2013, 06:52 AM
I get that. But let me be clear. I have had only good experiences with the Hi Tek coating so NOTHING bad has been said by me about his coating. Just my observations and experiments with PC. I would purchase his coating with out hesitation I just wish there was more in the color department available to us. IE if we could add pigment to do color changes on the fly. I asked if that was available and kinda got the cold shoulder. I think he felt like I was prying for his secrets and that was not my intentions. This has a huge potential market share here and lets face it folks want color options. It would be nice if there was a way to have them. This reason is really the only one that has me experimenting with PC. If I could get even a response from the guy regarding this it would be great.

Tes,
First, if I have given you the wrong impression with my reply, it was not my intention.
I apologise for any irritation caused.
I am very reluctant to add any blogs, as it seems to me that some think, that I am trying to hijack the site.
That is definitely not my intention, and never has been.
Facts are, that I never wanted to be in any blog, however, due to many asking many difficult questions from other users, which could not be answered, I was urged to join, and answer question on technical matters.
My such replies, seemed to upset some folk, as it was suggested I was advertising.
The reality is, that if people were enquiring about the HI-TEK coatings, why then should I ignore requests and start talking about other subjects?
I do not understand the rationale.

To explain clearly about colour matters, over many years, I have found very few that would withstand the Chemistry/heat combination, and would still remain at the original colour intended.
Facts are, that the coating really does not need any colour, but, having said that, because non coloured system still ends up from Yellow Tan to tan brown, when coated on alloy, the film looks golden and you can see the alloy, and still works OK.
The demand for heat and chemically stable components, that not only perform, and is able to overcome technical areas, are a major and expensive challenge, which has been on my research agenda for many years.
I would love to be able to tell you that I will supply you base coat and you make up your own colour, but that would not be realistic nor reasonable.
If any failures occur, I would be then accused by users, wasting money on colours that were unstable or non suitable, and, at worst scenario, if any damage is done to persons or equipment, I would be held liable or responsible.
Both here and in other countries, the demand for an individualistic colour code is always on the agenda, but really it is not totally achievable.
You need to also consider the commercial aspects I have to face, for me to produce a small quantity of a specific colour, that will withstand all requirements is also not commercially viable.
I apologise for placing my blog on someone else's intended site, but I really did want to clear the bad air that seems to have developed.
I will not add nor impose with any further blogs unless requested to do so.
Joe

gunoil
06-25-2013, 07:47 AM
Hi-tek: you should come here often and answer anyones ?'s. Not just a few! A lil' long wind'ed, but needed. I use Hi-tek supercoat and love it. 4 or 5 colors is enough, my god, its a bullet for christ sake. Iam not much on color matchin my clothes, pistol, & bullets if ya know what i mean.

Hi-Tek Supercoat has made reloading alot better here in one day. Everthing is clean, even new tubes is my bulletfeeder, others were dingy from alox and other lubes and now my barrels are clean now along with my fingers. I just had a bullet mold custom made with no lube groove. 112gr makarov nose to use in 380 and 9mm. (.355 and .356)

olaf455
06-25-2013, 08:39 AM
Stick around Joe, for every person that gives you a hard time there are dozens of us that enjoy and need your input.

bmiller
06-25-2013, 09:11 AM
Stick around Joe, for every person that gives you a hard time there are dozens of us that enjoy and need your input.

I agree completely Joe!

Nickle
06-25-2013, 10:29 AM
Make me another that wants you to stick around. I'm starting to warm up to the idea, more and more as time goes. I swage and cast, and much more prefer swaging. I think this will be a good alternative for swaged lead boolits, over knurling and normal tumble lubing.

TES
06-25-2013, 08:14 PM
Joe that was the answer I was looking for. Thanks. To those that give this guy grief try thanking the guy for a little inspiration on getting us all on to something other than copper and lead.

Thanks for that Joe! :lovebooli

prickett
06-28-2013, 12:32 PM
A couple observations I've arrived at for using Piglet Coat:

1) My mix is about a 5 to 1 (versus most people's 3 to 1). This allows the HF paint to better dissolve/declump.
2) I tumble until the acetone has fully evaporated. This has the advantage of smoothing out the coating.

abqcaster
06-28-2013, 12:49 PM
A couple observations I've arrived at for using Piglet Coat:

1) My mix is about a 5 to 1 (versus most people's 3 to 1). This allows the HF paint to better dissolve/declump.
2) I tumble until the acetone has fully evaporated. This has the advantage of smoothing out the coating.

Do you have any experience with using an actual powder-coating setup? I ask because I'm interested to see a comparison between actual powder coating and the piglet method, in order to see if, after all the tumbler rigging, jig making and such, there is any difference in invested time.

bstone5
06-28-2013, 12:57 PM
I have also found using a mixture greater than 3:1 about 5:1 now and applying very thin coats, with the acetone completely evaporated before pouring bullets on screen wire gives a smoother finish on the cast bullets using the PIGLET method.

I have been mixing the powder coat and the acetone and let the mixture set for a few days to give time for the power to dissolve .

Enough coating is usually established with just two coats, the coating is thin and but the two thin coats using the PIGLET method seems to work fine with out any lead in the barrel.

The direct powder coating with the air powder coat gun will result in a thicker coating on the bullets but it is difficult to completely coat the bullets, the PIGLET method coats the complete bullet surface.

prickett
06-28-2013, 01:01 PM
No. I read the powder coating thread with interest until seeing the lengths people were going through to setup coating jigs for full coverage (and/or manually arranging the boolits to sit on their base and/or the jig). That to me spelled a decent time commitment. The tumble method is very fast for me. I simply have to mix the paint (less than a minute), tumble (less than two minutes), then bake. The bake piece takes time, but not labor (i.e. as it bakes you can do other things), so I don't consider that in my over all labor "cost".

I had such good coverage after two coats, last night, that I'm next going to experiment with using two rather than three coats.

If you do proceed with your comparison, please report back so I can either confirm or correct my suspicions.

prickett
06-28-2013, 01:04 PM
I have been mixing the powder coat and the acetone and let the mixture set for a few days to give time for the power to dissolve .


What do you store the mixture in that prevents the acetone from evaporating? I mix mine in a jelly jar, but the rubber seal on the lid doesn't stand up well to the acetone fumes.

abqcaster
06-28-2013, 01:10 PM
No. I read the powder coating thread with interest until seeing the lengths people were going through to setup coating jigs for full coverage (and/or manually arranging the boolits to sit on their base and/or the jig). That to me spelled a decent time commitment. The tumble method is very fast for me. I simply have to mix the paint (less than a minute), tumble (less than two minutes), then bake. The bake piece takes time, but not labor (i.e. as it bakes you can do other things), so I don't consider that in my over all labor "cost".

I had such good coverage after two coats, last night, that I'm next going to experiment with using two rather than three coats.

If you do proceed with your comparison, please report back so I can either confirm or correct my suspicions.

I might get a PC rig for other applications and compare, but until then I'll stick with "pigletting." If I do, I will definitely let you guys know. I'm in this, at all, to save time, and would not build any kind of jig outside of putting foil on a cookie sheet. ;) Righ now my efforts will be going into setting up a simple tumbling method as I too would like the most even coating I can achieve. Thanks, prickett!

bstone5
06-28-2013, 01:14 PM
I got a plastic bottle that is used to squirt mustard that has a seal top that you push in and out, the seal holds and the acetone does not evaporate.

I got the bottle at the Dollar Store, I have two of the bottles one with plain acetone for clean up with and one with the mixture,

I have let it set for two weeks in the Houston Texas heat without any evaporation.

bstone5
06-28-2013, 01:35 PM
Pricket

The pink plastic bottle is what I keep the acetone in for clean up, I have a green bottle just like the pink bottle to store the Piglet mixture. I also use Hi-Tech for some bullets.

This is the only picture I have on my phone that shows the bottle.

popper
06-28-2013, 01:38 PM
squirt mustard - standard grocery type or something different? Does it squirt out to dispense or you remove the top? My acetone came in a plastic pint bottle, hasn't evaporated in 2 yrs in texas heat. I used 5:1 with the red HF, just playing with it, but didn't let it sit long. I might try to figure out a cheap hand powered tumbler rig to try with the black. I use the ES gun and it adds ~ .001-.0015" consistently. On my PB rifle I shoot down across the bases to make it thicker. You use that square jug for tumbling? Got some pretzel jugs like that I was thinking of using.

bstone5
06-28-2013, 01:57 PM
popper

The square jug did not work too well, I now use a small plastic butter container that is round and smaller in size and is not as tall. The butter container also has a small round grove at the bottom that the bullets and piglet mixture liquid get into as it is shaken.
The grove will collect the liquid and results in a better coating as the bullets are moved in and out of the grove as the bullets are shaken as the acetone is allowed to dry.

The clear square container also came from the Dollar Store but the plastic will get soft and partially dissolve with a lot of acetone.

docmagnum357
06-28-2013, 09:59 PM
I am pretty happy with the piglet method myself. TH more I use it, the thinner I mix, and I use a mixer and tumble 'til they are dry. I have gound two coats works great, too.

Skip62
06-28-2013, 10:09 PM
I am pretty happy with the piglet method myself. TH more I use it, the thinner I mix, and I use a mixer and tumble 'til they are dry. I have gound two coats works great, too.

So what does making it thinner do for you?

passgas55
06-28-2013, 10:17 PM
What do you store the mixture in that prevents the acetone from evaporating? I mix mine in a jelly jar, but the rubber seal on the lid doesn't stand up well to the acetone fumes.

You can wrap teflon tape on the edge of the lid covering the rubber. 2 wraps sould be plenty enough. The rubber may still break down but the teflon should still seal. You can try to remove the rubber seal then wrap teflon tape on outer edge. I see you are using jelly jars and i take it it is not like a two part lid used for canning. This works on canning jars.

bigfelipe
06-28-2013, 10:51 PM
I've been trying this and have gotten fairly good single coats on .30 bullets. They size easily and smash clean, but every time I try to second coat the acetone takes off the 1st coat. I tried cooking longer and letting them cure for a full day between, nothing...

I'm using HF flat black PC. I have yellow too, but haven't tried it yet.

How are you guys getting 3 coats?

prickett
06-28-2013, 11:58 PM
Once baked, I don't believe the acetone should have any effect on previous coats.

bmiller
06-29-2013, 07:51 AM
I am pretty happy with the piglet method myself. TH more I use it, the thinner I mix, and I use a mixer and tumble 'til they are dry. I have gound two coats works great, too.

Pics?

prickett
06-29-2013, 09:11 AM
So what does making it thinner do for you?

My $.02 - It reduces clumping. I think there are two variables to the mixture, but that we mainly are focusing on just one. Variable one is the ratio of paint to acetone. The other variable, though, is how much solution is applied to the boolits. I try to dribble about as much as I would use when applying conventional tumble lube (LLA/JPW/MS).

I also think that due to reusing my tumbling jar, paint from previous coatings gets redissolved and added into the mix (which would increase the paint part of the ratio some).

I just bought some measuring spoons so I can begin to quantify what works best for me. My latest batch (which unfortunately I didn't journal) had something like 3 tablespoons of acetone to 1/2 teaspoon of paint. That was sufficient for 50 9mm and 50 .45 boolits (3 coats). I could have stopped after 2 coats most likely.

prickett
06-29-2013, 09:14 AM
You can wrap teflon tape on the edge of the lid covering the rubber. 2 wraps sould be plenty enough. The rubber may still break down but the teflon should still seal. You can try to remove the rubber seal then wrap teflon tape on outer edge. I see you are using jelly jars and i take it it is not like a two part lid used for canning. This works on canning jars.

Good idea. I'll give teflon a try.

I'm not understanding how folks are able to use water bottles and condiment dispensers without the acetone eating through them. My first attempt used a plastic nut container whose bottom dropped out after the third use. Typically, acetone safe containers are use a different type of plastic than most consumer containers are made of.

rhadamanthos12
06-29-2013, 10:00 AM
I might get a PC rig for other applications and compare, but until then I'll stick with "pigletting." If I do, I will definitely let you guys know. I'm in this, at all, to save time, and would not build any kind of jig outside of putting foil on a cookie sheet. ;) Righ now my efforts will be going into setting up a simple tumbling method as I too would like the most even coating I can achieve. Thanks, prickett!

I tried the piglet method just the other day and again this morning before I left for work. Before that I was making jigs and using a HF powdercoating system. I find that I can do more bullets at a time with the piglet method with less prep, the overall time invested is much lower than the powdercoating with the gun. I would say I can have a complete batch done in about 30mins with the pigletting method where I would spend 45mins to a hour with the traditional method. The reason for that is that getting the air compressor filled, setting the bullets in the jig, hooking up the system up to the jig to make sure it is grounded, cooking to cure and trying to make sure the bullets didn't stick to the jig.

The piglet method doesn't produce as pretty as bullets, but I think they still look fantastic.

dverna
06-29-2013, 11:19 AM
This is a simple question.
Do any of the people using this process have a Star?

If yes, second question.
Why are you doing this?

I am a big believer is KISS. Cost is less of a concern than productivity or improved performance. Thanks for any insight you can share. I am trying to understand.

Don Verna

passgas55
06-29-2013, 12:02 PM
Good idea. I'll give teflon a try.

I'm not understanding how folks are able to use water bottles and condiment dispensers without the acetone eating through them. My first attempt used a plastic nut container whose bottom dropped out after the third use. Typically, acetone safe containers are use a different type of plastic than most consumer containers are made of.

I bet the type of plastic was a very clear hard plastic your nut container was. I prefer glass myself. I am going to use some stainless tubing cut about 6" and with one open end going into my glass container and I will use my thumb on other end to "hold" the mixture in place. Once over my shake container I release my thumb and the mixture will fall out. I will cut a piece of 3/8 and also try a 1/2 piece.

prickett
06-29-2013, 04:05 PM
This is a simple question.
Do any of the people using this process have a Star?

If yes, second question.
Why are you doing this?

I am a big believer is KISS. Cost is less of a concern than productivity or improved performance. Thanks for any insight you can share. I am trying to understand.

Don Verna

Hi Don,
I don't have a Star, so I can't answer that part of the question, but I'm interested in this method for the following reasons:

1) You seem to be able to push boolits faster w/o leading using Piglet/Hi Tek/Powder Coating/Klass Kote
2) I am hoping I can shoot softer lead than using conventional lubing (pure lead failed this test, but hopefully softer alloys will not)
3) Post shooting cleanup is far faster. There is no lube/carbon sludge build up, and the barrel is almost spotless
4) No smoke like you get from firing lead
5) I don't have a Star, I have an RCBS LAM 2, and this process is faster
6) The overall equipment cost for this is less than buying a lubrisizer.

And the number 7 reason is... black bullets sitting on top of shiny brass really looks cool!

passgas55
06-29-2013, 10:58 PM
My stainless steel tubing idea did not work as for as using it for dropping the liquid mix. Other than that I do find using a 4/1 mix works good.
At first I was hand tumbling till all most dry but the finish was rough. Now I tumble till it barley starts to stick and then dump it on the hardware cloth only moving the bullets to keep from touching each other. Wait two minutes and into the oven at 400 for 15 minutes. Remove and move bullets after it cools just a little to keep from sticking . I find the less you move your bullets in any stage of process the smoother the finish. 2 coats is all I need. I need to go to HF to get the other 3 colors.

passgas55
07-01-2013, 10:05 PM
Got the other 3 colors from HF. The red does not want to mix in with the acetone. It just wants to cling to the bottom or walls of the mixing container, gunk. How ever I was abale to make some pink bullets by doing a white mixture on the bullets and while swirling the bullets around I sprinkle in some red powder coat and then swirled in a little more white mixture. I baked it and did only one coat because it was on thick. The next time I repeated what i did before but went a little lighter on the powder coating mixture and a little less red.. I coatedand baked twice. The last test batch I did the first coat in white and baked. Then I added the white bullets to the mixing bullet bowl with the darker pink residue and added a little white liquid mixture which gave me a nice light pink. I will post pics when I get a chance.

passgas55
07-01-2013, 10:16 PM
http://i43.tinypic.com/ifqxia.jpg

The bullet on the left is one coat thick. The one in the middle is 2 light coats with less red powder and the one to the right is one white coat then pink residue from bowl mix in some white liquid mixture. You can still see some red streaks in it. To get rid of that you have to work it wetter.

TES
07-01-2013, 10:29 PM
Nice Job

bigfelipe
07-01-2013, 10:41 PM
Once baked, I don't believe the acetone should have any effect on previous coats.

Then I must be doing something wrong. Can you over bake them?

passgas55
07-01-2013, 10:47 PM
Then I must be doing something wrong. Can you over bake them?

At what temperature and how long are you baking?

prickett
07-01-2013, 11:28 PM
http://i43.tinypic.com/ifqxia.jpg

The bullet on the left is one coat thick. The one in the middle is 2 light coats with less red powder and the one to the right is one white coat then pink residue from bowl mix in some white liquid mixture. You can still see some red streaks in it. To get rid of that you have to work it wetter.

Those look very smooth for HF paint. Nice job!

bigfelipe
07-02-2013, 12:29 AM
At what temperature and how long are you baking?

400 for 20 mins

xyankeeworkshop
07-02-2013, 08:37 AM
I have not had a chance to actually Pigletcoat anything yet, but I too am noticing that the HF red powder I've had setting 1:4 in a jar of acetone for days will not even remotely go into solution - just clearish liquid on top of a clumpy red sludge. It'll suspend for a few minutes when you shake it up though.

Is this mainly a problem with the red HF pigment? Will HF black do a better job?

piglet
07-02-2013, 10:08 AM
This is a simple question.
Do any of the people using this process have a Star?

If yes, second question.
Why are you doing this?

Don Verna

I have three Star-lubrisizers, two Lyman-lubrisizers and one Herters lubrisizer. And many Lee push-through sizers.

I am doing this because when using these bullets I have a clean gun, clean dies, clean bullet feeders and nice looking bullets.

These bullets are extremely easy to size, do not leak anything and since there is no oil they can not ruin the primer.
Although my homemade Felix never ruined primers either.

Earlier I had problems with my bullet feeders. They did not like Felix but these PC-bullets work beautifully.

xyankeeworkshop
07-02-2013, 12:59 PM
passgas55,

I am willing to shoot speckled pink boolits in every caliber I own for the rest of my life if I can get them to look that good. Nice job!

passgas55
07-02-2013, 05:52 PM
passgas55,

I am willing to shoot speckled pink boolits in every caliber I own for the rest of my life if I can get them to look that good. Nice job!

Pink it's my new obsession
Pink it's not even a question,
Pink on the lips of your lover, 'cause
Pink is the love you discover ........

you know the rest of the song

passgas55
07-02-2013, 05:53 PM
400 for 20 mins

That should be good to go. Check your oven temperature.

olaf455
07-02-2013, 06:16 PM
Oops.

olaf455
07-02-2013, 06:17 PM
I have not had a chance to actually Pigletcoat anything yet, but I too am noticing that the HF red powder I've had setting 1:4 in a jar of acetone for days will not even remotely go into solution - just clearish liquid on top of a clumpy red sludge. It'll suspend for a few minutes when you shake it up though.

Is this mainly a problem with the red HF pigment? Will HF black do a better job?

I get the same results from powder by the pound Burgundy polyester TGIC.
I have noticed that the clear liquid on top is thicker than acetone, I assume some of the powder coat dissolves however the pigment does not.
I just shake really well immediately prior to pouring over the boolits, and all is well.

passgas55
07-04-2013, 11:22 PM
My next batch instead of mixing the actone and powder toether in a jar, I will add acetone to the bullets and dust them with a salt shaker the color I want. that way I can control how dark or thick the coating will turn out. be easier to mix colors. I kind of doing this now when I do pink.

HDS
07-05-2013, 01:55 AM
This is a simple question.
Do any of the people using this process have a Star?

If yes, second question.
Why are you doing this?

I am a big believer is KISS. Cost is less of a concern than productivity or improved performance. Thanks for any insight you can share. I am trying to understand.

Don Verna

I have a Star and thats why I won't be applying this process to any of my pistol bullets. Soley interested in the potential of making something sorta like a jacketed rifle bullet at home.

But the results I've had so far with my lino-type ish 223 bullets out of my AR, just using lube and gas checks, has been very encouraging so this whole coating business is on the back burner for now.

What would be interesting is a cast rifle bullet pre-made for these coatings, lacking lube grooves for higher weight to length ratio. I wonder if you could get something like 80gr from a bullet then and still be short enough to work in a 1:9 barrel. The velocities an 80gr jacketed 223 bullet would travel at would not be that stressing on a CB either.

bigfelipe
07-05-2013, 05:06 PM
Is there any real world accuracy or velocity data out there anywhere on PC bullets? I've been playing with the piglet method for my 300BLK subs/supers. The big 230s pattern about half again as wide as plain lead. My little 115gr LRN super loads are wild and minute of pie plate at 30yds when PC'd.

Haven't done handgun bullets yet. I'm only casting 125gr 9mm boolits and I don't size them or even have a sizing die for them. Working through a couple thousand factory made lead that have been lubed. What kind of groups are you guys getting? I'm interested in this for competition use in my GLOCKs.

passgas55
07-06-2013, 09:43 AM
http://i43.tinypic.com/n16tko.jpg
I played around a little bit with just using acetone dump on the bullets and sprinkling
the powder with a salt shaker. I used the salt shaker you use for camping. Then I
store them in a 8 oz glass canning jar. You can fit 2 shakers in there which will store
the 4 HF colors. I need some of those moisture removing packs in with them.
Red still giving me fits in the mixing. What I like about this is that I can control
the colors shades/ combinations easier than mixing the acetone/powder together and then storing the mixture.

passgas55
07-06-2013, 09:54 AM
http://i43.tinypic.com/x41zxu.jpg
Here is a pic of the brown bullets using HF powders and Piglets modified method by salt shaker.
I started out with red but the red did not want to evenly coat no matter how much acetone I used. Then I sprinkled in
a little white to get things mix but I did not want pink again. So heck spinkle in some black with a sprinkle touch of yellow .
Never been done before-brown HF bullets. This is just one coat. All that is needed. Ended up with a good amount of even coating on it.
Only place that was not coated is where the bullet rested on the hardware cloth while baking. Wanted to add these are my chocolate bullets. I know some of you may think other wise.

Skip62
07-06-2013, 05:00 PM
Ok, got the silicone hi-temp PC in, my little oven must not get hot enough to cure it. Acetone wipe takes it right off. bummer. I tried cooking longer, preheating. Anyone else have a problem with it?

docmagnum357
07-06-2013, 10:24 PM
This is a simple question.
Do any of the people using this process have a Star?

If yes, second question.
Why are you doing this?

I am a big believer is KISS. Cost is less of a concern than productivity or improved performance. Thanks for any insight you can share. I am trying to understand.

Don Verna

Several reasons. 1) on the scale you need for competitive shooting you will have a lot of trouble with dirty guns. I don't mind cleaning guns, but if I can avoid a prolonged, down and dirty cleaning every time because of the crud from the lube in the action I am all for it. 2) cheaper alloy seems to be usable. 3) I can literally handle bullets with wheel barrow and a cement mixer 4) If you are a tinkerer or a hunter, this isn't for you. You are right, a Star is the way to go.5) I just like being independent of the big boys. If I can buy something off the shelf at HF, It doesn't have to be as good, as long as it will work.6) keeps bullet feeders, dies clean.

docmagnum357
07-06-2013, 10:28 PM
HF is coming. If I achieve the same result then I will still call it the HFPC / piglet method if not I will let all know the source of this powder. You really do have to shake this like a can of spray paint to get it to dissolve well......

I mean like 30 seconds with 2 45's in the bottom. Some times I think I'm about to break the glass. Other wise it is just a clump of **** stuck to the boolits. Shake it like a Polaroid picture. When done it does dissolve.

On a side note I did let a solution sit over night and it did get very powdery. Meaning the powder got swollen with the acetone. It still coated ok but for production purposes it would not pass.

I noticed the same thing. I no longer use mixture if I don't use it right away. It seems to go on thicker, rougher, and just doesn't work as well.

jcobb651
07-07-2013, 09:21 AM
http://i43.tinypic.com/n16tko.jpg
I played around a little bit with just using acetone dump on the bullets and sprinkling
the powder with a salt shaker. I used the salt shaker you use for camping. Then I
store them in a 8 oz glass canning jar. You can fit 2 shakers in there which will store
the 4 HF colors. I need some of those moisture removing packs in with them.
Red still giving me fits in the mixing. What I like about this is that I can control
the colors shades/ combinations easier than mixing the acetone/powder together and then storing the mixture.

passgass55: Would you give a few more details on what your process is? So far this seems like it may be the easiest / fastest method with the best outcome. Thanks

passgas55
07-07-2013, 03:06 PM
JCOBB651

Basically I take 50 pistol bullets dumped into a plastic cointainer. Then I use 1/2 to 1 tablespoon of acetone and add to the bullets.
How much acetone you use is up to you. The more acetone I find the easier it is to work the powder in but it will take a little longer.
Then I just sprinkle a good coat on top of the bullets/acetone and start mixing it around. You control how much powder to use.
I find that if you are not stingy with the powder you can coat in one mix/bake. If it looks too thin on coverage right before it starts to stick add a little more acetone and sprinkle more powder. Remember the acetone will evaperate and the amount of powder is what coats your bullets. I all so find taking it out before it starts to stick a lot gives a smoother finish. The less bullet movement after it starts to stick the smoother the finish. If you have a lot of residue in your plastic mixing container it can be used next time and will mix when you add the acetone again and less powder can be used. That is one reason why I use a mixing container for each color. Red does not work this way but for making a pink bullet start off making white bullets and while it is still wet sprinkle the red in. It will mix then. When baking I do not let the bullets touch. I do not wait for the acetone to dry before baking. I set the oven to 150 for a couple of mintues or so then 400f for 15 mintues. I may have to rethink the warm up/ dry period in the oven. May be a fire hazard.

I am still doing it by trial and error but it seems to be working for me.

jcobb651
07-07-2013, 03:43 PM
Thanks! I couldn't decide if you had laid the pills on a mesh and thrown acetone over them or if you were swirling in a container.

passgas55
07-07-2013, 11:09 PM
http://i43.tinypic.com/33uphzo.jpg

I did a grey, a olive green and a pastel yellow.
I came to the conclusion I need white to help coat the boolits. I tried black and it did not want to stick
to the boolits so I added white and now I have a grey. The olive green started out as a black and red mixture
but I was having coating problems so out came the white again but I added a little yellow and this made a olive green.
Then I started out white and added yellow which gave me the pastel yellow. I had to shake/bake a second time on the yellow.
It could have been ok but I wanted a little more coverage on the yellow. I need to start shooting instead of baking.

passgas55
07-07-2013, 11:25 PM
http://i42.tinypic.com/otm9f6.jpg
I need to do the M&M colors.

Russel Nash
07-10-2013, 01:27 AM
This is a simple question.
Do any of the people using this process have a Star?

If yes, second question.
Why are you doing this?

I am a big believer is KISS. Cost is less of a concern than productivity or improved performance. Thanks for any insight you can share. I am trying to understand.

Don Verna

I have a Star. I could never get the thing timed just right. I have the heater base and the pneumatic plunger ram thingey. I was using Red Rooster (or Rooster Red) commercially made lube. I had my Star mounted to the edge of my bench with an extra Dillon akrobin underneath it to catch the boolits. I could leave everything turned on and walk away for 5 minutes. I'd get back to the bench and the akrobin would be filled with red-ish pink-ish "spaghetti".

:groner:

Maybe you other Star owners could chime in.

Also...since you asked...a few years back I was kinda on the trail with the Sandstrom 27A liquid. A couple of years before that, a buddy of mine was in talks with the owner of MasterBlaster bullets to buy his automated casting and sizing equipment. My buddy and this guy agreed on a price. Then the guy goes "Oh, by the way that will be an extra five thousand dollars to get the secret chemical and proprietary coating process my chemist wife invented.". My friend was like "What the _ _ _ _, no, the deal is off!". So master blasters dude sold the equipment to Tom Drazy who called it "Black Bullets International". Then within the past year or two he sold it to Chandler LaFrain of Team Rudy Project.

This whole time over the course of five years or so I have always thought the whole super secret proprietary chemical and coating process was BS.

So to prove somebody wrong is why I want to do it.

Russel Nash
07-10-2013, 01:43 AM
Also, in the spirit of one-upsmanship, as far as I know none of the poly/moly coated boolit manufacturers (black bullets international, bear creek, and precision) make a rifle boolit. I've got an AR in 7.62X39 that is begging for a 123 grain-ish powder coated boolit in .30 cal, if it's cheap, and accurate, and I can post my results to another forum, people are gonna do this:

http://www.seabreeze.com.au/Img/Photos/Stand_Up_Paddle/3651088.jpg

jcobb651
07-10-2013, 07:52 AM
As far as the hardware cloth goes, what is the better: larger diameter openings or smaller diameter openings? Obviously the openings need to be smaller than the diameter of the boolit, but large enough to allow drainage of the powder coat, but does one have any advantage over the other?

Capt Mike
07-10-2013, 02:25 PM
I was thinking the same thing. Anyone used regular screen wire? I know it will clog up, but what the heck if it will render a smoother boolet.

Capt Mike
07-10-2013, 03:13 PM
I have read this entire thread and many other threads on this and other forums pertaining to powder coating. I would like something clarified for me. As I see it there are three basic methods at this time for powder coating projectiles.

1. The "Piglet" method where one uses a powder mixed with acetone or lacquer thinner. The projectiles are dumped into a container and agitated in the powder/liquid mixture until coated and then placed on a screen tray to dry and heat. There are a couple of variations of this, but all use thinner of some sort with powder sprinkled or added, then heated.

2. Next is the Hi-Tech method where you purchase a kit containing a premixed liquid pigment and a catalyst. Once mixed, this method is the same as the "Piglet" method.

3. Last is the regular powder coating method where one used a powder coat gun and induces the powder to adhere to the projectile by use of electricity. One again, the projectile must be heated.

Now am I missing something or does this pretty much cover it? I know there are those that use liquid paints of all sorts and other chemicals and coatings, but to keep this simple does this sum it up for us here in the US trying to powder coat boolets?

Capt Mike
07-10-2013, 04:51 PM
OK, obviously I have nothing to do today but work on this boolet project.....actually I do, but I can't get it off my mind. Question, If this powder coating is cured to 400 degrees F for 20 minutes or so, is it still soluble in lacquer thinner? I just checked my last batch and if I put thinner on a paper towel and rub the coating the red comes off.

Jailer
07-10-2013, 05:03 PM
Should work great. There is a guy on another forum that posted he actually had better results using lacquer thinner than he did with acetone.

Skip62
07-10-2013, 05:28 PM
OK, obviously I have nothing to do today but work on this boolet project.....actually I do, but I can't get it off my mind. Question, If this powder coating is cured to 400 degrees F for 20 minutes or so, is it still soluble in lacquer thinner? I just checked my last batch and if I put thinner on a paper towel and rub the coating the red comes off.

Well, your not supposed to be able to, but yesterday I tried coating some, and it would wipe off after curing. That had never happened before, so I'm really puzzled by it. I thought maybe I was loosing my mind, so I dug out some that I had done a couple weeks ago, and they are fine. I have no idea why.

Skip62
07-10-2013, 05:29 PM
Should work great. There is a guy on another forum that posted he actually had better results using lacquer thinner than he did with acetone.

could be he just got high on the lacquer thinner and thought it was better....:veryconfu

Capt Mike
07-10-2013, 06:10 PM
I'm using Lacquer thinner, and yes it will make you high....but WHAT a headache! I have done three batches over the last two days using HP powder and they all will discolor/partially wipe off with a paper towel when wet with lacquer thinner. My cheep HF digital thermometer reads spot on 400 degrees F. when aimed at the red boolets. I'll have to use another oven to get higher temps.

Capt Mike
07-10-2013, 06:50 PM
Opps duplicate post!

prickett
07-10-2013, 07:58 PM
I have read this entire thread and many other threads on this and other forums pertaining to powder coating. I would like something clarified for me. As I see it there are three basic methods at this time for powder coating projectiles.

1. The "Piglet" method where one uses a powder mixed with acetone or lacquer thinner. The projectiles are dumped into a container and agitated in the powder/liquid mixture until coated and then placed on a screen tray to dry and heat. There are a couple of variations of this, but all use thinner of some sort with powder sprinkled or added, then heated.

2. Next is the Hi-Tech method where you purchase a kit containing a premixed liquid pigment and a catalyst. Once mixed, this method is the same as the "Piglet" method.

3. Last is the regular powder coating method where one used a powder coat gun and induces the powder to adhere to the projectile by use of electricity. One again, the projectile must be heated.

Now am I missing something or does this pretty much cover it? I know there are those that use liquid paints of all sorts and other chemicals and coatings, but to keep this simple does this sum it up for us here in the US trying to powder coat boolets?

There is a 4th method: Epoxy paint such as Klass Kote. Similar to the Hi-Tek method.

seedeeze
07-10-2013, 08:23 PM
There is a 4th method: Epoxy paint such as Klass Kote. Similar to the Hi-Tek method.

Does the epoxy paint really need to cure in an oven? I thought epoxy paints cures by themselves at room temperature, is the oven curing used just to reduce curing time?

Capt Mike
07-10-2013, 08:26 PM
I was lumping all the 2 part or epoxy based type under the Hi-tek. I am not, however, familiar with anything but the Hi-Tek and then only thru reading. I plan to order a kit so I can try it, but first I feel I should master, as best I can, the "Piglet" method, then maybe spraying dry powder.

HI-TEK
07-10-2013, 08:57 PM
I'm using Lacquer thinner, and yes it will make you high....but WHAT a headache! I have done three batches over the last two days using HP powder and they all will discolor/partially wipe off with a paper towel when wet with lacquer thinner. My cheep HF digital thermometer reads spot on 400 degrees F. when aimed at the red boolets. I'll have to use another oven to get higher temps.

If you are coating with Powder coating, dissolved in solvent method, there are several things that need to be considered.
Powder coating, already contains every thing required to cure at 190-200C.
The catalyst that is contained in powder system, works at elevated temperatures to set the coatings.
The problems that can occur, with various resin systems not being totally soluble in your chosen solvent.
You have no way to determine just how much, and to what extent, all required materials had dissolved, and in the correct ratio, to provide the setting required at cure temperatures.
The composition of various powder resin systems have different properties and react differently when trying to dissolve them.
To test your coating system, I can suggest a couple of things to try.
1. place some powder onto a piece of metal, (steel will do) and bake at 200C for required time.
2. place some of solvent dissolved powder extract coating on similar surface, and repeat process after thorough drying.
Then compare the two cured coatings to determine how things went.
If both set same way and is OK then the solvent system is working.
If you find that solvent extract system does not set same way, it can indicate that not every thing dissolved as required to set coating properly.

jcobb651
07-10-2013, 09:05 PM
When using acetone or lacquer thinner, is it possible that some of the solvent hasn't flashed completely off before being heat treated, thereby causing the erratic results?

passgas55
07-10-2013, 10:13 PM
The ones I coated do rub off some when soaked in acetone. I took another sample of bullets and i am rebaking them right now
at 450f for 20 minutes. i will try soaking them again to see what happens. At least now I can clean any powder coat residue in my barrel
with acetone(joke). But does it really matter? What effects does it have on a boolit being shot?

HI-TEK
07-10-2013, 10:31 PM
The ones I coated do rub off some when soaked in acetone. I took another sample of bullets and i am rebaking them right now
at 450f for 20 minutes. i will try soaking them again to see what happens. At least now I can clean any powder coat residue in my barrel
with acetone(joke). But does it really matter? What effects does it have on a boolit being shot?

When shooting any coated alloys, the heat produced due to powder burn and friction heat, will certainly affect what happens with the coating.
If coating is not cured properly, or has a low melt temperature when comparing to powder burn or frictional heat temperatures, the coatings that come off the alloy and deposit inside barrel will set very hard and may bond to steel surfaces. Solvents will not remove such deposits as heat will set coating well and is no longer soluble in solvents.

passgas55
07-10-2013, 10:41 PM
Ok this is what I came out with. I am not baking the boolits hot/long enough.
I did it for the above 450f/20minutes and did an acetone soak after and no residue on my towel wipe down.
Another thing I notice the boolit with the most black in it (the grey ones) came out a little more flat in finish as compared before.
I will rebacke the 200+ boolits but I gues I will have to shoot the 150+ rounds that I already have loaded. Well at least I can compare
how the acetone effected boolits hold up to being fired.i will test in my ss rugar sa gun. It will be the easiest to clean up if i have any problems unless the boolits will rebake themselves when shot. i hope not. Edit to see what you posted about it rebking so off to the bullet puller I go.

Skip62
07-10-2013, 10:55 PM
Does the epoxy paint really need to cure in an oven? I thought epoxy paints cures by themselves at room temperature, is the oven curing used just to reduce curing time?

I don't know about all epoxy paints, but Klass Kote does not, it just speeds the re-coat time a little bit.

Sent from my MB886 using Tapatalk 2

passgas55
07-10-2013, 11:25 PM
Those fully loaded rounds i have were made a little diffrent in that they were coated twice lightly and backed twice.
I will test with acetone the tips to see if they pass or not. If they pass I will shoot. If not I will pull.

bigfelipe
07-11-2013, 02:00 AM
So I see lots of pretty bullets in this thread, but not much on accuracy and function. How are these boolits working out or you guys? Are your groups tight? Barrels clean?

Capt Mike
07-11-2013, 10:01 AM
So it looks like maybe I need to increase the temps to around 450F for 20 minutes or so? I think I am going to have to install the old kitchen oven I took out and replaced a couple of months ago. I knew if I kept it I would have a use for it!

While we are at it, what are people doing to keep the boolets nice and smooth after they come out of the mixture? All that rolling around on the hardware cloth makes them rough no matter what I do.

TES
07-11-2013, 06:45 PM
75900

Free at a yard sale!

Score!!!!

I asked about it and she said it didn't work. So being a gentleman I asked if she tried another plug just to be sure and she said "yes I did. It's broken you can have it for free."

Got it home and cooked pizza at 450 deg in 15 minutes from frozen.

Now it goes in the garage...maybe.:guntootsmiley:

Skip62
07-11-2013, 07:16 PM
Nice score Tess

Sent from my MB886 using Tapatalk 2

prickett
07-11-2013, 10:47 PM
So I see lots of pretty bullets in this thread, but not much on accuracy and function. How are these boolits working out or you guys? Are your groups tight? Barrels clean?

I tested Piglet Coat vs. traditional wax lubed lead and found accuracy to be slightly better with Piglet.

The first time I shot Piglet, the barrel was spotless. The last time left something in the barrel that I'm trying to determine the makeup of (lead? or paint?)

dverna
07-11-2013, 10:55 PM
So I see lots of pretty bullets in this thread, but not much on accuracy and function. How are these boolits working out or you guys? Are your groups tight? Barrels clean?

For some of us, that is the $64k question. Accuracy.

My impression is that well over 90% of the work is being done on pistol bullets. Many pistol shooters are not skilled enough to discern a slight change in accuracy unless they go to the effort to bench test loads. Minute of pie plate at 50 yards is good enough. What is more important is reducing or eliminating leading and a process that is relatively fast for those who do not have a Star and are not willing to make the investment. Hy-Tek is not capital intensive and is an attractive alternative.

The lack of accuracy testing is telling but it is not uncommon unless you have people working with rifle loads. That is where the rubber meets the road. I think that with all the hype, we will see more people trying it, and some will be rifle shooters. Then we will see more reports on rifle loads and accuracy. That is what I am waiting for.

Now, if I had a pistol that would not run lead with traditional lubes, I would be ordering Hy-Tek - as I think it is better than either PC or piglet coating methods.

bigfelipe
07-11-2013, 11:03 PM
I actually have a liter of red copper Hi-Tek that just came in, but I also have a couple containers of HF PC in black and yellow I would love to use up too. I just don't see the point if accuracy isn't there.

passgas55
07-11-2013, 11:08 PM
I did another test batch today. I had some slow dry, high gloss paint thinner and it did work real good. It took care of mixing in the red.
The only problem with it is if you add too much thinner it sure takes a long time for it to get thicker. I ended up adding more powder which made the coating too thick. But I can see this is the way to go instead of using acetone. The sizer took care of the extra thickness but it left bare spots. The baked finish was the smoothest I had ever done. I baked at 450f for 30 minuetes. Passed the wipe down test with acetone and paint thinner. My next batch should be a little thinner on the coating. Tomorrow I hope to shoot a few of the rebaked boolits. I think I am on my way.

Russel Nash
07-11-2013, 11:59 PM
For some of us, that is the $64k question. Accuracy.

My impression is that well over 90% of the work is being done on pistol bullets. Many pistol shooters are not skilled enough to discern a slight change in accuracy unless they go to the effort to bench test loads. Minute of pie plate at 50 yards is good enough. What is more important is reducing or eliminating leading and a process that is relatively fast for those who do not have a Star and are not willing to make the investment. Hy-Tek is not capital intensive and is an attractive alternative.

The lack of accuracy testing is telling but it is not uncommon unless you have people working with rifle loads. That is where the rubber meets the road. I think that with all the hype, we will see more people trying it, and some will be rifle shooters. Then we will see more reports on rifle loads and accuracy. That is what I am waiting for.

Now, if I had a pistol that would not run lead with traditional lubes, I would be ordering Hy-Tek - as I think it is better than either PC or piglet coating methods.

I had bought a whole bunch of Berry's plated bullets once. Let's say in .40 cal, some would actually caliper at .399, others at .400 and some still at .401.

I was at a steel plate match thinking "WHAT THE HECK!" because they weren't hitting the plates. I shot them on paper and sure enough out of a 10 shot group I'd have at least 2 fliers 6 to 8 inches, maybe even more from the center of the main group. :groner:

so while I am no expert when it comes to pistol accuracy, I have a gut feeling for what a group shot standing freestyle (both hands) should look like at 15 yards, and then again at 25 yards. And no!, I don't bother shooting pistol at 50 yards either.

xyankeeworkshop
07-12-2013, 08:23 AM
passgas55,

Could you give us more info on the high gloss paint thinner? Brand, source, approximate mixing ratio, etc. Thanks.

Capt Mike
07-12-2013, 12:33 PM
I have moved along a little in the last 24 hours. First I installed my wife's old oven I replaced for her some time back.
http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x46/captmike01/DSC_0344_zps0ec5b389.jpg (http://s181.photobucket.com/user/captmike01/media/DSC_0344_zps0ec5b389.jpg.html)
http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x46/captmike01/DSC_0345_zps9b5559fa.jpg (http://s181.photobucket.com/user/captmike01/media/DSC_0345_zps9b5559fa.jpg.html)
Not pretty, but safe and functional until I get around to building a proper enclosure.

I also received my order from Powder by the Pound and all I can say is find something else to do with your HF powder and order some of this! There is still a learning curve, but it is so much easier to work with.

http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x46/captmike01/DSC_0348_zpsa821b1de.jpg (http://s181.photobucket.com/user/captmike01/media/DSC_0348_zpsa821b1de.jpg.html)

Boolets on the left are HFPC and on the left are PBTP, both one coat and cook at 400 for 20 minutes....coating is no longer soluble in lacquer thinner. Still have a long way to go, but it is a start.

passgas55
07-12-2013, 11:49 PM
passgas55,

Could you give us more info on the high gloss paint thinner? Brand, source, approximate mixing ratio, etc. Thanks.

Years ago my brother painted a car in my back garage. He gave me a can of paint thinner left over.
I forgot that I still have it sitting in my loft . It is PPG Duracryl, acrylic Lacquer Thinner, DTL 105 High glossSlow Thinner.
It works very well, will mix in the Harbor Freight RED. It just takes longer to dry. Next time I will use as little as possible and try not to make it too thick. You just got to pratce on small lots to see what works for you.
I hope to be casting some 9mm bullets next week and plan on doing a straight up red. I will post pics when I do.

passgas55
07-12-2013, 11:57 PM
As a side note I did shoot some of the rebaked 38 cal boolits today. I was mainly looking for how good the coating held up more so on the base. So far the coating did not burn or flcked off after being fired. I cleaned my sa ruger before. After shooting first I past a dry patch and no loose coating was found. Past a wet patch and only burnt gun powder was on patch. Past a wet brush then dry patches and it came out clean again. did the same to the 6 cylinders with same results. So far so good. In 2 to 3 weeks it will be some 9mm testing then can testing.

xyankeeworkshop
07-14-2013, 09:26 AM
OK, I'm now officially sold on the Piglet process. Anyone want to make an offer on a lightly-used Craftsman PC gun? 8^)

I've been conventionally PCing the Lee 125gr 9mm I run through my Glock for months now, but this is soooooo much easier - and no red overspray covering the garage floor!

After cloverleafing my first 4 of 5 shots from 10 yards with my G17 (which NEVER, EVER HAPPENS!), I ran the rest of the 100 boolit test batch, then pulled the barrel. Nothing but a little carbon.

Ditto on a clean 200 and 230 grain .45 ACP test. They fed great and were stupid accurate out of my 1911.

I then ran as many Pigletized .380s through my LCP as my hand would allow, ringing a 10" plate from 20 yards at a rate that made me want Ruger to come up with an LCP beta mag. 8^)

Next thing to check: 8mm Mauser.


I suppose that several pounds of mixed beeswax pan lube will make a fine flux for smelting range scrap for the rest of my life.


Piglet for President in 2016.

passgas55
07-16-2013, 10:48 PM
I got my new mold for a 9mm at 147gr. Cast a couple hundred boolits. Wet coated 50 using paint thinner and this time got my coating just right. Very smooth even coating. From what I can tell the coating is adding 5/10 to 7/10 grains in weight after baking. Next time when doing 9mm I will weigh 1 38 cal lee boolit and mix it in with the 9mm. Then weigh it after baking. This should give me a better feel on how much weight I am adding to boolits. I just want to know.This weekend I may get to test the 9mm.

Rangefinder
07-18-2013, 06:22 PM
All right, I've been sitting on some PC paint for a few months and trying to justify buying a gun for spray them... THEN I discovered this method--and the world is looking better!

I did these this afternoon with scarlet red, then dusted with a light squeeze of graphite--I kinda like the effect. .357 button-nose wad-cutters and my little 311415's for 32ACP and 7.62 "skunk eliminator". NOW I'm seeing the velocity potential and am excited to push these little buggers!

76490

leftiye
07-20-2013, 05:21 AM
I wanna thank y'all. Ah jest knowed that if'n I waited long 'nuff somebody would do all the work, and come up with a system that werked. Errr, has anybody mixed any moly or HBN in with the powder?

Skip62
07-20-2013, 05:34 AM
I wanna thank y'all. Ah jest knowed that if'n I waited long 'nuff somebody would do all the work, and come up with a system that werked. Errr, has anybody mixed any moly or HBN in with the powder?

Not in the powder, but when I used epoxy paint I did. I don't think it had any effect. I think it just gets encapsulated by the plastic. Might do something if tumbled on after the cure.

Sent from my MB886 using Tapatalk 2

docmagnum357
07-20-2013, 09:29 PM
I WILL be casting and coating tomorrow. SO far I am elated with the results I am getting with the H&G 200 grin Semi Wadcutter Knock off from Lee. I am fairly sure I like the 105 grain bullet in the 380 , also from Lee. SO far I have only used the Harbor Freight Black. I thought I could get by with a two coat application but I am now settled on a three coat system with LOTS of acetone, more than 5 to one. I tumble them in my modified cement mixer until they are dry to the touch and then bake at an oven setting of 425 ( not the 400 degrees called for on the container) for at least twenty minutes. I get a mottled look but the bullets are consistent enough and look like a factory made product; no drippy runny looking mess. I am ordering some Black from Powder By The Pound asap. I hope it makes a better looking boolit.

I will send some pictures next time I cast and coat. I am getting ready to cast and coat some 124 grain 2r 9mm boolits, also from Lee molds soon. I shoot a lot of 148 grain wadcutters in my K-38 so they may be next instead of the 9mm boolits.

SO far I have been extremely pleased with this method and I intend to start keeping track of how much powder and how much acetone I use on 1k boolits. I will tweak it 'til it is exactly what I want and I will be glad to share the results.

I have nothing against the Hi - Tec stuff, if it works. It probably does work better than the Harbor Freight Powder. THe problem I have is that it is a long way to Australia from Leicester, NC. Also, I have a real problem with " trade secrets". I used to hang out with con men before I met Jesus Christ, and the " magic box" was a favorite trick to take advantage of hicks, rubes, and people who drive second hand Fords ( of whom I am one). An off the shelf Chemical can look pretty amazing if you are not familiar with chemistry. " It slices, it dices, it juliennes, it peels potatoes....." Well, so will my pocket knife. I had just rather have something readily available, off the shelf, even if it isn't exactly the perfect thing.

Pictures of my set up forthcoming.

Ausglock
07-21-2013, 08:55 AM
I have nothing against the Hi - Tec stuff, if it works. It probably does work better than the Harbor Freight Powder. THe problem I have is that it is a long way to Australia from Leicester, NC. Also, I have a real problem with " trade secrets". I used to hang out with con men before I met Jesus Christ, and the " magic box" was a favorite trick to take advantage of hicks, rubes, and people who drive second hand Fords ( of whom I am one). An off the shelf Chemical can look pretty amazing if you are not familiar with chemistry. " It slices, it dices, it juliennes, it peels potatoes....." Well, so will my pocket knife. I had just rather have something readily available, off the shelf, even if it isn't exactly the perfect thing.

Pictures of my set up forthcoming.

Mate. No snake oil or voodoo anywhere in the HI-TEK coating. just 20 odd years of usage and happiness with a coating that works as stated. A coating actually designed for coating bullets, not garden furniture like powder coating. A coating readliy available in the USA with more coming in every day in very large quantities and in various colours.
But if the PC floats your boat, then knock yourself out and good luck with your endeavours.

gunoil
07-21-2013, 10:16 AM
docmagnum, mike in fayetteville,, for 36$+fedex for hi-tek. You should try! I dont know what you silly statement about oz is far from north carolina meant because hi-tek comes from LA. Down near new orleans. You should give it a try. Its thin as kool-aide.

HI-TEK
07-21-2013, 10:36 AM
I WILL be casting and coating tomorrow. SO far I am elated with the results I am getting with the H&G 200 grin Semi Wadcutter Knock off from Lee. I am fairly sure I like the 105 grain bullet in the 380 , also from Lee. SO far I have only used the Harbor Freight Black. I thought I could get by with a two coat application but I am now settled on a three coat system with LOTS of acetone, more than 5 to one. I tumble them in my modified cement mixer until they are dry to the touch and then bake at an oven setting of 425 ( not the 400 degrees called for on the container) for at least twenty minutes. I get a mottled look but the bullets are consistent enough and look like a factory made product; no drippy runny looking mess. I am ordering some Black from Powder By The Pound asap. I hope it makes a better looking boolit.

I will send some pictures next time I cast and coat. I am getting ready to cast and coat some 124 grain 2r 9mm boolits, also from Lee molds soon. I shoot a lot of 148 grain wadcutters in my K-38 so they may be next instead of the 9mm boolits.

SO far I have been extremely pleased with this method and I intend to start keeping track of how much powder and how much acetone I use on 1k boolits. I will tweak it 'til it is exactly what I want and I will be glad to share the results.

I have nothing against the Hi - Tec stuff, if it works. It probably does work better than the Harbor Freight Powder. THe problem I have is that it is a long way to Australia from Leicester, NC. Also, I have a real problem with " trade secrets". I used to hang out with con men before I met Jesus Christ, and the " magic box" was a favorite trick to take advantage of hicks, rubes, and people who drive second hand Fords ( of whom I am one). An off the shelf Chemical can look pretty amazing if you are not familiar with chemistry. " It slices, it dices, it juliennes, it peels potatoes....." Well, so will my pocket knife. I had just rather have something readily available, off the shelf, even if it isn't exactly the perfect thing.

Pictures of my set up forthcoming.

Thanks for your blog.
I fully understand where you are coming from.
I also have over the years been exposed by snake oil salesmen, and con merchants and some very clever ones indeed.
I am not upset about your scepticism.
In your time, you must have really had many bad experiences with con men.
What is of concern is, that you have not appeared to have done any homework, and, are implying, that thousands of shooters, who have used the HI-TEK coatings successfully over 20 years, have all been duped and conned, because the formulation is a "trade secret".
You must concede, that your such assertion is a little over the top and a little insulting to those shooters..
Mate, I am not that good, that I can fool all those people, for all those years, an no one has been able to realise that they have been conned.
I am really very flattered that you consider with your assertion, placing me on top of the pedestal, the king of con men, and, that I have the ability to carry out such deed for such a long time.... lol.
Please, have a think about what you are writing and before you do it.

jmort
07-21-2013, 11:06 AM
"I am really very flattered that you consider with your assertion, placing me on top of the pedestal, the king of con men..."

Love it when the Hi-Tek drones and Hi-Tek himself invite themselves to threads related to other options. No one called Hi-Tek a con man. That is a lie. Way to go drones, and thanks for the hyperbole Hi-Tek.

"I have nothing against the Hi - Tec stuff, if it works. It probably does work better than the Harbor Freight Powder."

Exactly where do the con man comment exist in the post? Right, no where. Now drones/HiTek go back to the Hi-Tek thread.

BBQJOE
07-21-2013, 11:32 AM
Exactly where do the con man comment exist in the post? Right, no where. Now drones/HiTek go back to the Hi-Tek thread.

I have nothing against the Hi - Tec stuff, if it works. It probably does work better than the Harbor Freight Powder. THe problem I have is that it is a long way to Australia from Leicester, NC. Also, I have a real problem with " trade secrets". I used to hang out with con men before I met Jesus Christ, and the " magic box" was a favorite trick to take advantage of hicks, rubes, and people

I'd say the con man thing was pretty well implied.

Skip62
07-21-2013, 09:41 PM
docmagnum, mike in fayetteville,, for 36$+fedex for hi-tek. You should try! I dont know what you silly statement about oz is far from north carolina meant because hi-tek comes from LA. Down near new orleans. You should give it a try. Its thin as kool-aide.

Says $68 on his website. http://www.bayoubullets.net/Coating.html

HI- tek works well, but smells bad when fired.

HI-TEK
07-21-2013, 09:45 PM
Says $68 on his website. http://www.bayoubullets.net/Coating.html

HI- tek works well, but smells bad when fired.

Interesting comment.
Just wondering what is odour you are noticing?
When the coating is cooked, the baked film should not smell when fired or at least have very low smell at best.
I have not had any one tell me that previously.
It is most interesting.

Ausglock
07-21-2013, 10:03 PM
The only smell I get is burning gun powder. nothing from the coating.

BBQJOE
07-21-2013, 10:12 PM
Maybe someone isn't used to the smell of burned powder without all grease and wax lubes?

Skip62
07-21-2013, 10:28 PM
The only smell I get is burning gun powder. nothing from the coating.

I shoot with a lot of people that use bayou bullets and they all say the same thing. It smells. Maybe your used to the smell, I'm not, haven't shoot anything but jacketed until last year when I tried bayou.

Sent from my MB886 using Tapatalk 2

HI-TEK
07-21-2013, 10:53 PM
The only smell I get is burning gun powder. nothing from the coating.


Baking the coating at 190-200C should leave no residual components that may cause an odour.
It is most strange that odours are noticed.
I will have to follow up with this with Bayou, and other manufacturers, to see what they say about this.

popper
07-21-2013, 11:18 PM
I noticed an almost Bakelite, very light Oder.

piglet
07-22-2013, 02:44 AM
I noticed an almost Bakelite, very light Oder.

Yes, maybe the "secret formula" is just that, phenol formaldehyde resin, maybe glue, 2 component thermosetting glue normally used for example when manufacturing plywood?

Hardens at about 200 degrees centigrade, depending on the hardener, and costs very little.
Or maybe shellac solution.

Easy to check.

U.S. Customs data says that this imported "secret formula" is:
"Paint D.G. Class 3 Un1263"
and that is:
"Dangerous goods labels class 3. UN1263: paint, including paint, lacquer, enamel, stain, shellac solutions, varnish, polish, liquid filler, and liquid lacquer base".


My non-secret-formula PC-bullets do not smell...

prickett
07-22-2013, 12:59 PM
Says $68 on his website. http://www.bayoubullets.net/Coating.html

HI- tek works well, but smells bad when fired.

I think he was referring to the half liter quantity that Donnie also can sell you.

prickett
07-22-2013, 01:00 PM
I shoot with a lot of people that use bayou bullets and they all say the same thing. It smells. Maybe your used to the smell, I'm not, haven't shoot anything but jacketed until last year when I tried bayou.

Sent from my MB886 using Tapatalk 2

I noticed the smell yesterday too. Took me back to the days I'd cut Formica with a power saw. Smells just like that.

Skip62
07-22-2013, 01:17 PM
I think he was referring to the half liter quantity that Donnie also can sell you.

Ah, didn't know that was an offering.
Thanks

Sent from my MB886 using Tapatalk 2

piglet
07-22-2013, 01:19 PM
I noticed the smell yesterday too. Took me back to the days I'd cut Formica with a power saw. Smells just like that.

If it looks like a dog, walks like a dog and smells like a dog, then it's...."The Secret Formula"

piglet
07-22-2013, 04:19 PM
By the way, Hi-Tek has sent me a private message and I think it is better to publish it:

"I want your name address so I may start action against you.
It appears, that you are intent in continuing to try and undermine me, defame me and my products, and continue posting materials in the public domain, with such deliberate intent.
I will not allow you to hide behind your blog name "piglet" any further. "

So, do that. You allow what You allow. I could not care less.
I am nice, I will allow You to hide behind all Your blog names.


I am sure that one day the administrators here see who helps other members and who is instead using this site as a marketing help only.

I shall continue publishing my findings and help others absolutely free of charge. No snake oils here.
Grow up. You see, the free piglet method is spreading....

jmort
07-22-2013, 04:37 PM
"I want your name address so I may start action against you.
It appears, that you are intent in continuing to try and undermine me, defame me and my products, and continue posting materials in the public domain, with such deliberate intent.
I will not allow you to hide behind your blog name "piglet" any further. "

As I said before, Hi-Tek and his drones are so extremely touchy. Love the lawsuit card. I would classify Hi-Tek as an alleged colossal weenie , but that would not be in the spirit of the forum, so I will refrain from calling him an alleged colossal weenie in spite of his crazy-a$$ post. I know I for one, will never spend a dime on anything he sells as I find his attitude lacking and below average. Chill-out Hi-Tek.

fusionstar916
07-22-2013, 05:00 PM
I was going to order a liter but reading closely to hi-tek's posts. You are your worst enemy.
You have no one to blame but yourself for your own defamation. You do understand that you look absolutely horrible when YOU try to threaten shooters who are offering free information.
There is more then one way to coat a bullet. A cheaper alternative comes along and you pounce at the opportunity to threaten into submission or talk down another man's methods. You did the same thing with the MCC guy on youtube, now piglet.
Shame on you.

On a side note,
I tried the acetone and Cherry Red PC(ebay) method and even after curing in the oven for its recommended 400F/20min time, acetone would still dissolve the baked on coating when I try to do a 2nd coat.
I have a lb of HF white PC and perhaps that will do better vs solvents.

jmort
07-22-2013, 05:05 PM
fusionstar916 check out this thread

http://www.300blktalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=141&t=84219

Ausglock
07-22-2013, 05:10 PM
Personally. I think Piglet got a bug up his **** because HI-TEK wouldn't tell him what was in the Supercoat, so Piglet could make his own.

So. if the powder coat system is working for you, and you are getting the results that suit you, then fine. be happy with the coating system you are using.

But I don't get the hostility directed toward the HI-TEK coating system. It works! and has worked for many many years.

I'm going to try some powder coat. I have aquired a Kg from the local powdercoating place in black to try. Going to do some 230gr RN TL 45 and see how it goes.

w0fms
07-22-2013, 05:12 PM
Hmm.. looks like a "Yank" is getting close to figuring it out...(or at least a "Yank board") or maybe even something better!

At $68/liter it's bound to happen. Especially when it's a hard to get $68/liter. Especially when it's a group of people who like to create their own projectiles instead of buying them for a very small amount of extra money. This type of person would like to create their own coatings as well. It's an addiction. Buying "secret stuff" just isn't fun when you make your own stuff as a hobby.

I think I'll skip trying it too. I tried a small run of "Piglet" and the powder gun from HF and I prefer the powder gun. But I find the experimentation here fascinating and no matter what $6 to "try this out" would.. I dunno.. probably help the sales of the $68 stuff. I think Piglet probably should get a commission!

Now.. to figure out if they shoot well? That'll be a few weeks at my current schedule... If not I had a blast powder coating and will use it for my other hobbies. Every metal box in the house will be coated in the stuff by the end of the year! ;)

G'Day!

fusionstar916
07-22-2013, 05:17 PM
THANK YOU SO MUCH. I have several gallon cans of lacquer thinner but It never occurred to me to use it. I'm so ecstatic to try it now. No more LLA contaminating my powders in the heat. Hopefully.


fusionstar916 check out this thread

http://www.300blktalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=141&t=84219

popper
07-22-2013, 05:17 PM
By what authority is anyone on this board allowed to 'demand' someone make public anything proprietary? Hi-Tek provides HIS product to buy. If you don't find it working in your application, fine, you can post it. If you don't like the product or the guy, don't buy his stuff. If you think he is swindling you by relabelling floor paint and selling as boolit lube, prove it and then do something about it. If you think you can do better, make it, sell it and of course post it's formula here so we can make it for free. Is it the best thing since sliced bread? Probably not. End rant.

bstone5
07-22-2013, 05:28 PM
I was cleaning up after powder coating some 38 Special bullets, using the conventional powder coat gun.

I was using carburetor cleaner from NAPA to wipe off the glass door of the counter top convection oven after scraping with a razor blade.

There was some loose powder on the top of the oven. When I wiped it off the powder coat seemed to dissolve.

I squirted some of the NAPA into a cut off cola can and placed a small amount of the powder in the liquid.

The powder coat dissolved.

What ever is in the carburetor cleaner seemed to dissolve the powder coat well.

The cleaner seemed to work better than acetone.

I will try this again later this week to see if the solution will work with the piglet method.

Skip62
07-22-2013, 05:51 PM
On a side note,
I tried the acetone and Cherry Red PC(ebay) method and even after curing in the oven for its recommended 400F/20min time, acetone would still dissolve the baked on coating when I try to do a 2nd coat.
I have a lb of HF white PC and perhaps that will do better vs solvents.

I was having this problem, after it working fine. I bought an oven thermometer to check my oven, it was not getting hot enough on bake, only 350°. I put it on broil and hit 475°, so now I put it on broil and set to 400 and the thermometer goes from 400° to 425° and back again. Problem is I can no longer use the top rack cuz when that top burner kicks in it melts the bullets. I get these protrusions of lead where the coating is thin.
Another guy had his plugged into an extension cord and wasn't getting enough juice to get up to temp.

Cosmiceyes
07-22-2013, 07:09 PM
Thanks for your blog.
I fully understand where you are coming from.
I also have over the years been exposed by snake oil salesmen, and con merchants and some very clever ones indeed.
I am not upset about your scepticism.
In your time, you must have really had many bad experiences with con men.
What is of concern is, that you have not appeared to have done any homework, and, are implying, that thousands of shooters, who have used the HI-TEK coatings successfully over 20 years, have all been duped and conned, because the formulation is a "trade secret".
You must concede, that your such assertion is a little over the top and a little insulting to those shooters..
Mate, I am not that good, that I can fool all those people, for all those years, an no one has been able to realise that they have been conned.
I am really very flattered that you consider with your assertion, placing me on top of the pedestal, the king of con men, and, that I have the ability to carry out such deed for such a long time.... lol.
Please, have a think about what you are writing and before you do it.

docmagnum357 Has one line about Hi-Tec at the start of the last paragraph.It is a positive assertion not a negative.The next part of his last paragraph is admitting to a phobia he has about your product/types that are unknown,and no where in there does he accuse you of anything.You assumed he was "IMPLYING" when there isn't any. You actually owe the man a apology.
These people are just trying another way to do the same thing your product does which is what people do.Simple "I don't want the expensive Cadillac when I can have fun in my Ford pickup."This experiment is proving fruitful for many,and it uses something other than your product.
What you have done is to make yourself a fool in public forum by naming yourself as the "king" of anything in your mind,and script which is devoid of truth.There is no application of anything you have said in this forum before this post.People just ignored the Hi-Tec pro-post is all.And I quote you your own last line,"Please,have a think about what you are writing,and before you do it."

Cosmiceyes
07-22-2013, 07:17 PM
I'd say the con man thing was pretty well implied.
Are you so liberal that you would take what was written out of context?
If that is the way to read things then I need to not be a Christian.Why? Because God is dead. The Bible says in old testament scripture God is dead (then of course adding the rest of the scripture)sayest the fool.
Docmagnum357 admits "he"has a problem.It is his phobia. Your hard heart reads it differently.

Love Life
07-22-2013, 07:27 PM
Oh dear.

Skip62
07-22-2013, 08:18 PM
So, where are the forum rules? I couldn't find them. Most forums I've been on, companies can't push their products unless they are sponsors, and then only in the vendor area. Is this not true here?

seedeeze
07-22-2013, 08:45 PM
Alright folks, everyone take a chill pill, I know I'm the newb here but can we concentrate more on the topic of thread and stop bashing people, procedures and/or products unless backed by evidence and is directly related to this thread?

passgas55
07-22-2013, 09:14 PM
I got to shoot some piglit style pc in 9mm 147gr in an ar15 9mm surpressed and a glock 17 surpressed.
Very happy with the results. Will move forward to more loading and settling on a stander load for both. Happy, happy.

prickett
07-22-2013, 10:55 PM
Alright folks, everyone take a chill pill, I know I'm the newb here but can we concentrate more on the topic of thread and stop bashing people, procedures and/or products unless backed by evidence and is directly related to this thread?

Agreed!

Maybe someone can start a new topic named "Cat Fight" where all the bickering can occur, leaving these threads for constructive information.

popper
07-22-2013, 11:27 PM
No, some just don't understand that 'proprietary' is IP and protected under law. Just like top secret & a patent. Run a mass-spec on it, copy & sell, you go to court and lose big time. IMHO Hi- Tek is providing help on the use of his product.

Love Life
07-22-2013, 11:37 PM
:popcorn:

Cosmiceyes
07-23-2013, 03:15 AM
Ya'll keep playing,and as I have this as a subscribed forum which I have the enjoyment of reading. Constructive work is busy,fun,and in this case even colorful. I knew nothing of what you are doing when I first started reading. I have learned a lot. I wish to thank you for all the information. Keep up the great read!

LBIGuy
07-23-2013, 07:51 AM
Ya'll keep playing,and as I have this as a subscribed forum which I have the enjoyment of reading. Constructive work is busy,fun,and in this case even colorful. I knew nothing of what you are doing when I first started reading. I have learned a lot. I wish to thank you for all the information. Keep up the great read!

Ditto....

popper
07-23-2013, 09:22 AM
I took my BP pill this morning. I am amazed at the OPs who are offended when the press is used to try to take away guns from us but are not offended when Castbooits is used to try to take away someones property. I'm outta this thread.